Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - 'She's Truly Shocked': Dissecting Donna Adelson's Body Language with The Behavior Panel

Episode Date: January 23, 2024

Donna Adelson, the Miami grandmother accused of orchestrating the murder of her former son-in-law, Dan Markel, has been captured on body camera footage and in courtoom footage. At times, she is expressive but what does it mean? Law&Crime's Angenette Levy talks with Scott Rouse and Chase Hughes of the Behavior Panel about Donna Adelson's body language in this episode of Crime Fix — a daily show that delves into the biggest stories in crime.If you’re ever injured in an accident, you can check out Morgan & Morgan. You can start your claim in just a click without having to leave your couch. To start your claim visit  https://ForThePeople.com/CrimeFixGUESTS:Chase Hughes - https://twitter.com/thechasehughesScott Rouse - https://twitter.com/ScottRouse3HOST:Angenette Levy: twitter.com/Angenette5CRIME FIX PRODUCTION:Head of Social Media, YouTube - Bobby SzokeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinVideo Editing - Daniel CamachoAudio Editing - Brad MaybeGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@LawandCrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this law and crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give will be the truth? I do. Donna Adelson under oath in court. She's denied being a part of the plot to murder her former son-in-law, Dan Markell. But what does Donna Adelson's body language tell us? We have two of the best experts in the biz here to weigh in.

I'm Anjanette Levy. It's Tuesday and this is Crime Fix. If you've watched Donna Adelson, you've probably noticed that she can be pretty expressive. And we know facial expressions or even how someone sits can tell us something about what a person is thinking or feeling. We've seen her in body camera footage, of course. I didn't know there was a warrant. How would I know that? We've also seen Donna Adelson in court. She's pleaded not guilty to being a part of the conspiracy to murder her former son-in-law, Dan Markell. Donna Adelson was in court Monday for a routine hearing about court dates and scheduling, but one noteworthy thing happened. The judge placed her under oath to question her about being represented by the same lawyer as her son, Charlie Adelson. Charlie is serving a life

sentence for Markell's murder and plans to appeal. It sounds like that might be a little bit of a conflict, and that's what the judge was worried about. He questioned her under oath. Take a look. I'm able to discuss with independent counsel whether or not you waived any conflicts as it relates to the prior representation of your son? I have, Your Honor. And are you, in fact, waiving any such conflicts? I am, Your Honor. So what is Donna Adelson's body language telling us? Joining me to talk about that are two experts in this field. They are Chase Hughes and Scott Rouse of the Behavior Panel. I'm sure you all have seen them many times on YouTube. Their videos are

great guys. Thanks for coming on. Let's play clip one. This is Donna Adelson being arrested at the airport. And what's interesting about this is that she's already been on jail phone calls. Unbeknownst to her, she was on a hot mic. She didn't hang up her phone and she's talking about getting out in time because she's worried she's going to be charged. So let's play the clip of Donna being arrested. Why don't we have more time? What do you think? She's under arrest. I have to go with you. You don't have to go with me. Let me help you out.

No, I have to stay. Please don't do this. Take the bags. I need them on the outside. Okay. My husband's almost 80 years old. He can't go with me. Please, can I help you?

No, you can't join me there. Oh, don't do this. Please. Please. Oh, God.'t go to me? Please, can I help? No, you can't. Oh, don't do this, please. Someone said to help him get home. This is terrible. You can't do this. This is terrible. Is that okay with you? Please. You can't do this.

You can't do this. You can't do this. Do you have anything in your pocket? No. All right, Scott, I'll start with you. What is Donna's body language saying to you? Well, she's a little apprehensive. Obviously, you wouldn't be in a situation like this. But she's giving up as she's a little apprehensive. Obviously, you wouldn't be in a situation like this. But she's giving up as she's resisting. It's one of those things you see her hands go up a little bit, and there's nothing she can do.

She's surrounded. These guys are all over. So she tries to turn a concern to her husband as an excuse to get away. You know, how's he going to get home? He's almost 80. So that gives us the impression that she's aware of what's happening. I think she knows she's going. She's thought about this ahead of time, what's going to happen.

Maybe she did say earlier she was going to take herself out if this didn't turn out the way she wanted. But everything looks as it should to me for that situation. Everything looks normal as far as someone under that kind of stress goes chase what do you got she knew this was a possibility chase i mean she knew it she's on the jail calls you know she doesn't realize she's still being recorded but she's saying you know we need to get out in time or wondering if we can get out in time that type of thing um but you know it's like you're being charged with murder she knows it's a possibility but she's just. But, you know, it's like you're being charged with murder. She knows it's a possibility, but she's just like, oh, this, you know, like, oh, like I was a little bit like, oh, like that kind of made me cringe a little bit. Yeah. And I agree with Scott. Why aren't we

seeing I agree with you? Like, why is it that behavior there that we might expect? And I think the first thing we see is her grabbing this phone, just like squeezing onto it really hard. And I think this is instinctive and they've become such a kind of a weirdly intricate piece of our lives that we have the same neurological reaction to a missing phone as we do a missing child. So I think that's reactive. There's probably evidence on there, no doubt, but I think it's just reactive and she's not surprised. So this confusion turned into resignation. And you can see that in both of their faces, the lower jaw is relaxed, which is kind of just resigned to what's happening. And the faces are just relaxed as well. So there's no shock.

And after she says, this is insane, there's a look that her husband gives her that we all know well in the behavior community. And you'll notice there's no concern on his face and that he's essentially got this confirming glance to her. That's kind of just like, well, we're busted. So you can tell they've thought about this event a lot. They've thought about the possibility, which is why we don't see the shock and surprise. Now, there's a lot of body camera footage. There were, I think, five long body cameras that we received with Donna's arrest. And the next one is she's taken out to the vehicle, to the cruiser, and she's put in the cruiser, but then she has to get out and she's being frisked. I mean, uncomfortable situation, but I wanted you guys to look at how she's kind of reacting to all of this

and see what you think of that. So let's take a look at clip two. I'll check you first, okay? Just stay still. Anything you have that may pinch me? I have nothing left. Okay. I still got to ask if you know. Okay.

I still got to ask regardless. Okay. Okay. You still gotta ask regardless. Okay? Turn around. Face me. I'm gonna do the same to the front, okay? Just to make sure nothing drops. Scott, you know, I know she's just kind of drinking some water. She's being frisked.

Obviously not a good situation for her. Anybody would be uncomfortable. But is there anything you can tell from her facial expressions about what's going through Donna's mind? When you're being searched, it's a really demeaning situation because they're, they're touching you everywhere, making sure you're not hiding something. So the whole time that's going on, you're in question of being a person who's not going to hurt somebody or you're not hiding something, that kind of thing. So I think we're seeing all the body language and facial expressions we should see with someone who has resigned to letting that happen, but they don't like it. Because we see almost – and it looks kind of like a little smile on her face,

but I think that's sort of a show thing to show I'm okay to whoever may be watching. I'm sure she's not aware of or isn't thinking of the body cams and what's getting put on those. But I think at the same time, she is thinking about how embarrassing this is. So I think we're seeing the classic cues of someone who is embarrassed but resigned to what's happening. Chase? Yeah, I totally agree here. She's obviously dressed for a long trip here.

Her nails are done. She has new shoes on, comfortable clothes for a long flight. One thing to notice in this clip, on top of what Scott said, which she is resigned here to this, is when she's drinking this water, she can't really reach it. So the officer is helping her and her hand is there still kind of supporting the bottle. And when she's doing this, we're not just looking at facial expressions. Now we can see finger expressions. Her fingers are dangling. And this is one of the best positions you can ever get somebody in because our hands telegraph so much about our behavior, especially when the fingers are just

suspended like this. So there's a lot of, there's not a lot of trembling and nervousness and they look pretty relaxed. And this tells you a lot about what's going on in her head. It tells me she's pretty confident this moment was going to happen for a while, kind of resigned to it. So even though she was about to get on that flight, she's mentally rehearsed this moment several times in her head before. But that's kind of, well, obviously, you know, her family was under suspicion. But at the same time, if I'm picked up and arrested, I would be freaking out. I mean, I think I would be freaking out. I don't know. But you know what I mean? I mean, getting cuffs slapped on you put into the back of a cruiser. I mean, I've been on in cruisers on ride alongs with cops. I mean, it's kind of like you're in you're in a cage. So don't you think it's a little, is this really the way people would react if they were taken into custody?

I mean, there's no kind of like, oh my God, I can't really believe this is happening. You know, she kind of said it was insane before, but it's just kind of weird to me. Forgot you go on this one. Okay. But again, she's resigned to this. You know what I mean? What else can she do? And you're right, Chase. She's resigned to this you know i mean what what else can she do and you're right chase she's thought about this she's thought about what's going and

probably late awakens you know at night thinking about it maybe expecting this to happen there most likely thinking i think we're gonna get away with it we're gonna get away with it because we're at the airport now not thinking they'd be waiting out of there so i think it's again a lot of of um this amper apprehensive um look on her face that just says you know we're busted it's it's it's over and angina you'd be nervous because you didn't do anything and and second she's been preparing for this mentally for a long time and if something somebody snatched you up and started risking you and you hadn't done anything or thought about it, it would make anybody nervous. But I think she's had a lot of time to mentally get ready for it. Yeah, well, she was certainly talking about it on the jail calls a lot.

So, you know, her son was convicted of murder. But I still I just I can't even imagine. So, Scott and Chase, our next clip is when Donna Adelson is in court in Tallahassee and they're talking about how she was talking about possibly taking her own life on jail calls. So let's go ahead and play that clip and see Donna's reaction when the opposing attorney talks about this. Now, before she was arrested in Miami, she also had a phone call with her son, who's obviously in jail here. 25-minute phone call.

I personally listened to it. She very clearly spoke about a plan to kill herself using sleeping pills. One moment, Ms. Adelson. Please keep your comments to yourself. Let your lawyer argue on your behalf. Spoke of a plan to kill herself if she could not escape the country before arrest. That was known to the folks in this jail when she got here. That's why she's on watch. The mental health professionals see her every day. They are not satisfied that she's safe.

And it's up to them to decide it. All right, Scott, what do you think of how Donna reacted there? She's on jail calls saying this, but she thinks she's not. The big smile is her telegraphing that, in other words, this is not true. I can't believe you're saying this. It's that expression. You've seen your mom do it you've seen um maybe your husband do it and and guys or whoever your wives do it so and it's that thing just says that's not true i can't believe they're doing

that you've got to be kidding me that kind of thing and she sort of resigns to that as well there at the end when she sort of leans back and swallows real big so let's just know there's a lot of stress there because I'm sure she's thinking about this as it's rolling in front of her as this um situation is unfolding this guy saying all this I'm sure she's thinking oh geez they got me you know this is this is all correct but she has to make that little face to show this isn't true are you kidding me it's so ridiculous that's what she's telegraphing but when you look at body language you got to think what is that person not only what are they saying verbally what is their body language trying to tell me so she's taking advantage of that and

we're all familiar with it we all use those little tactics like that we'll get back to crime fix in just a sec but first i want to tell you about our sponsor morgan and morgan it's the largest personal injury law firm in the United States, and they make submitting a claim really easy. You can do it using just your cell phone. When you are seriously hurt, your injury could be worth millions. And when you're fighting a big insurance company, you need a big law firm like Morgan & Morgan to fight for you and to protect your rights. Morgan & Morgan does not settle for lowball offers. Just in the last couple of months, Morgan & Morgan has had some big verdicts come in.

In Florida, one was for $12 million. That was 34 times higher than the highest insurance company offer. In Philadelphia, Morgan & Morgan won a $26 million verdict. That is 40 times the highest insurance offer. And in New York, the firm won a $6.8 million offer. That won a whopping 25 times higher the highest offer. There are no upfront fees. It's free to submit a claim. You only pay Morgan & Morgan if you win. Submit a claim to www.forthepeople.com slash crime fix or click the link in the description. Chase, she was on the jail calls. She just doesn't realize at this point that she's being recorded. So she's saying this is ridiculous, but she does kind of reference, you know, sometimes I want to just like think we should do it together, take something and go to

sleep and not wake up. So she is kind of talking about this, but she's trying to play it off like she wasn't. She doesn't know it's on tape. So she was talking about it, but she's trying. Is she trying to look shocked or is she truly shocked? I think she's truly shocked and not because of innocence. There's a difference. It's it's it's shocked because of awareness of what's in possession of the other side here, maybe. She says, oh, my God. But what also says, oh, my God, is her lawyer's pen.

If you watch the speed that her lawyer is writing, like all the retorts to everything that this person's saying here on the stand, I have no idea if this phone call is released already, but I'm willing to bet this prosecutor or state attorney, whoever it is here, is maybe taking a little artistic license because that shock and surprise was very genuine between her and her attorney. And we analyze people for a living, and this behavior here is not common unless something is glaringly off. And when people try to fake that they're surprised or shocked about something being false, they look very different from what we see here. Interesting. So maybe she was talking about it. I mean, because on the jail call, she's kind of saying this. It doesn't sound like she's 100 percent serious, but she's just kind of on a rant. So maybe she's like, oh, you can't be serious that I would actually do that. Maybe so.

And she may be reacting to the phrase from the state's attorney or whoever that is saying very clearly talked about this plan. So that might be what that is. Interesting. All right. Let's look at our next clip. This was just from this week when Donna Adelson appeared in court. Kind of a brief clip, but I thought it was interesting because she's raising her hand and swearing, raising this hand, actually, and swearing to tell the truth.

So let's play the last clip. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give will be the truth? I do. You can lower your hand. Ms. Adelson, do you understand under the Constitution you have the right to conflict-free representation? I do. As it relates to your current attorney, Mr. Rauschbaum, representing you, you understand that he has certain duties as it relates to his prior representation

with your son. Yes, Your Honor. I understand. You understand his prior duty of confidence that he must maintain under the rules of professional responsibility in some way could affect your representation? I do, Your Honor. And you also understand in deciding whether or not to waive any conflict concerning this matter, you have the right to obtain independent counsel on that matter? I do, Your Honor. Have you been able to discuss with independent counsel whether or not you waive any conflicts as it relates to the prior representation of your son?

I have, Your Honor. And are you, in fact, waiving any such son? I have, Your Honor. And are you, in fact, waiving any such conflicts? I am, Your Honor. Okay, Scott, what is Donna's face telling you in these moments? That almost flat affect of just answering. These are the things her attorney has told her to say. You answer it like this and make it really short. When he says this, you say, yes, your honor, or no, your honor. Make sure you add

your honor at the end. That's really important. She's trying to show the most respect she possibly can in that situation, which is the thing to do in there. But I think, again, I think this might be one of those situations where she doesn't even really remember going through that. She'll remember having gone and talked to the judge, but it's one of those situations where she doesn't even really remember going through that. She'll remember it having gone and talked to the judge, but it's one of those things where there's so much probably rolling through her brain right then as the realization. When you're in that position, that realization of what's happening to you, it really ramps up because you're like, there's the judge, and I'm talking back and forth and agreeing and saying, yes, Your Honor, no, Your Honor.

And every time she says that, her limbic system probably pops a little bit and says man this is a lot this is a lot of stress for us so i think the um we don't see a lot of movement with her either because she's she's really still her blink rate looks fine it looks fairly what do you think about her blink rate chase what did you i didn't see anything change and i've worked with prisoners and detainees a lot in my life and one thing the first 72 hours are supposed to do there is teach you that compliance has instantaneous reward of some sort and this is especially effective on people who are socially minded which she is she's a very social person and she's comfortable beyond what we saw in the trial buildup. And her trial, just based on this, is going to be very

interesting because it looks like she's either completely innocent. Keep in mind that I'm not an expert on this case whatsoever. I am on behavior though. Or she's completely resigned that they have all they need to convict her. So she's made absolute peace with one of these ideas. And when people have certainty about the future, no matter what it is, it produces this calm demeanor that you see here. So most of the time when we're profiling stress and deception and all these other weird behaviors,

you can think of a reduced feeling of certainty about the future. They have a hard time predicting what the future is going to look like. And that's where reduced feeling of certainty about the future. They have a hard time predicting what the future is going to look like. And that's where a lot of that stress comes from. Very interesting. Well, guys, we hope you'll come back another time. Scott Rouse, Chase Hughes of the Behavioral Panel. We hope you'll come back. It was great to talk with you and I really enjoyed it. Yeah. Thanks, Anjanette. Thanks for having us. And that's it for Crime Fix on this Tuesday, January 23rd, 2024. I'm Anjanette Levy.

Thanks so much for joining us. We'll see you back here tomorrow night. Until then, have a great night. You can download Crime Fix on Apple, Spotify, Google, and wherever else you get your favorite podcasts and new episodes post each weeknight at 6 Eastern time on Law and Crime's YouTube channel. Daniel Camacho does our video editing. Our head of social media is Bobby Zoki.

Our senior director of social media is Vanessa Vine. Savannah Williamson is one of our producers. Diane Kay and Alyssa Fisher book our guests. And Brad Mabey is our audio editor.