Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - Suspected Serial Killer Caught Creeping Around West Coast

Episode Date: August 12, 2025

Jesse Lee Calhoun has now been charged with murdering a fourth woman in Portland, Oregon. Kristin Smith disappeared in November 2022 and her remains were found in 2023. Calhoun was already charged with murdering Charity Perry, Joanna Speaks and Bridget Webster. He is also suspected in the murder of Ashley Real. Law&Crime's Angenette Levy takes a deep dive into the case in this episode of Crime Fix — a daily show covering the biggest stories in crime.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW: Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code CRIMEFIX at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: http://incogni.com/crimefixHost:Angenette Levy  https://twitter.com/Angenette5Guest:Joseph Scott Morgan https://x.com/JoScottForensicMark Piepmeier https://x.com/mrkppmrProducer:Jordan ChaconCRIME FIX PRODUCTION:Head of Social Media, YouTube - Bobby SzokeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinVideo Editing - Daniel CamachoGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this Law and Crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Our family, our angels, they're all taken too soon. The Portland Five will never be forgotten. A suspected serial killer in Oregon is now charged with murdering four women and suspected in the death of a fifth. We are dedicated to pressing forward to obtain. justice for these victims and for their families. The families of the women are not giving up on their fight for answers and justice, and one

mother has a message for Jesse Lee Calhoun. You are not the smartest person in the room. You think that you are and maybe the day of your crime you were, but you're no longer in your room. You're in my room. Welcome to Crime Fix. I'm Ann Jeanette Levy. There is an absolutely terrifying case that's been unfolding in Oregon since

23. I actually covered this case for you back in June of that year when there were real fears that a serial killer was on the loose. Between February and May of 2023, the bodies of six women were found within a 100-mile radius of Portland, Oregon. The first victim was Kristen Smith. Her body was found on February 19, 2023. Joanna Speaks was also murdered. Her body was found in early April, 23. Bridget Webster vanished in early March, and her body was found on April 30th. Also discovered in late April of 2023, the body of Charity Perry. And then Ashley Rial was found in May of that year.

The remains of an unidentified Native American woman were found in late April, but the Portland Police Bureau said at that time that her death was not suspicious. The five victims, the women with families who loved them, became known as the Portland Five, and their deaths stoked fear that a serial killer was at work. And it appears that fear was legitimate and warranted. Jesse Lee Calhoun has been in custody since June of 2023. in July of that year, police said they had a person of interest in the murders, but they didn't identify him publicly until May of 2024. But there are questions about whether Calhoun should have been on the streets in 2023 at all.

Calhoun had a criminal history, including convictions for burglary and theft. He started serving a four-year sentence in 2019 on those charges, but was granted clemency in 2021 because of good behavior and because he worked as a prison firefighter. during wildfire season in 2020, according to Fox 12, Oregon. That clemency was revoked by another governor in 2023 when it became clear that Jesse Lee Calhoun was a person of interest in the homicides. Now Calhoun has been charged with murdering four of the Portland Five. We are here today to announce that the grand jury has indicted Jesse Calhoun

for the November 20th, 2002 murder of Kristen Smith. As you may know, Mr. Calhoun is already charged with murdering Charity Perry, Joanna Speaks, and Bridget Webster between the dates of March and April of 2023. This indictment adds two additional accounts, murder in the second degree and abuse of a corpse in the second degree. The DA says that Kristen Smith was the first victim of Jesse Calhoun and that she was murdered on November 20th, 2022. her mother, Melissa, spoke at the press conference. As a lot of you may know, this is my other daughter, Haley, that's been right there beside me this whole nightmare of a roller coaster. But I'm sorry, I'm just, I'm really overwhelmed with emotion.

I stayed strong, doing all I could, trying to save my daughter. and it was just unbearable to find out I was too late and needed help finding her and I did everything I could to try to get answers and fight and search and I couldn't have done any of that or survived each day if it wasn't for my family if it wasn't for my daughter without my friends friends that didn't care

where we were going or what we were doing we just went and we were searching hanging flyers everything I want to thank everybody for all the support and love and keeping Kristen's name and memory alive and not forgotten I thank the other victim's families for staying by my side

the whole way We searched together, we fought together, we never gave up. And to still stay by my side, even after Jesse Calhoun was indicted for your three loved ones. And Kristen wasn't, you're here with me today. I cover a lot of really scary crime stories here on Crime Fix, and if it's taught me anything, it's that privacy and personal safety absolutely cannot be compromised, especially when it comes to your personal data online. You would be shocked at how much of your information, like your name, phone number, and even home address is just floating around the internet for data brokers to

find and sell. Do you ever wonder why you get so many of those annoying spam calls and emails? Well, that's why our sponsor, Incogni, is a crucial tool that helps you take back control by automatically identifying which data brokers have your info, and then demanding, they remove it. Incogni actually found 50 brokers with my information, and within days, they started getting me removed. It's so easy to use. Just create an account, authorize Incogni to act on your behalf, and let them handle the rest. And now Incogni users can wipe their info from an even wider range of websites with the Unlimited Plan's new custom removals feature. All you need to do is copy and paste the link to sites where you've noticed concerning data breaches cropping up and creating issues in your life and a team of privacy specialists will take care of the rest of it.

The new Incogni Unlimited feature even allows users to customize their data removals and tackle the toughest of breaches with the help of a team of privacy specialists. So if you care about your online safety and you should, take your personal data back with Incogni. use the code crime fix below on the screen and get 60% off an annual plan. Now, as Melissa Smith spoke, you could tell that she feared that charges might not come in her daughter's case. It's been a long, agonizing 898 days since the day I found out. Kristen Smith was deceased. Then on May 17th, 2024 last year, the police made their statement that Jesse Calhoun was being indicted for the third.

three of the five girls. I can't explain the agonizing pain I felt that day that Kristen was not one of those girls. I stood strong with the other families and was happy they got their answers and prayed every day. This day would come for me, for us. It's been 445 days since the first indictment of the three girls. Four hundred and forty five days. still fighting with the other victims' families. I've always stayed hopeful that I would get justice for Kristen and kept the faith in my two DAs. I've never lost hope. I too fought for answers.

I always told Kristen growing up, never give up. You too. I never gave up. And I never will. I think every single person who didn't give up on this case, my family, my friends, and most importantly, every single person who never forgot about these five women, our family, our angels, they're all taken too soon. The Portland Five will never be forgotten. Kristen Smith was 22 years old when she was murdered. Her mother had written on Facebook that she searched for her for months before finding out. that she had been killed.

Jessie Calhoun was previously indicted in the murders of Charity Perry, Joanna Speaks, and Bridget Webster. One of the prosecutors on the case spoke about the murder charge in Kristen Smith's death. This re-indictment of Mr. Calhoun marks a significant milestone in this case. We want to recognize the strength and the patience that Kristen Smith's family has shown

throughout this entire process. Kristen was 22 years old at the time of her death. It's been nearly two and a half years since her remains were located. And we recognize that the uncertainty around whether somebody would be charged and when that would occur has been extremely difficult for the family. We're thankful for their trust and their patience and for the trust and patience of all of the other impacted families. 27 has to feel like an eternity to the families of Kristen, Charity, Bridgett, and Joanna. As we all know, Jesse Calhoun is in custody and has been for some time. While we cannot share specific details due to the ongoing nature of the investigation,

I can share that from the very beginning, our detectives were fully committed to uncovering the truth. Over the past two and a half years, this case has demanded relentless work, countless hours, and unwavering dedication. Our investigators pursued every lead, re-examined every person, piece of evidence and followed the facts wherever they led, and our work is far from over. But there is still the question about whether charges will be filed in Ashley Rial's murder. No one has been charged with her death. I can just say that that is an extremely important case to us. It's one that's currently under investigation.

We continue to partner and work with the Clackamas County District Attorney's Office and the Clackamas County Sheriff's Office as we continue to investigate that one. Charity Perry's mother stood up to offer words of support to Ashley's family. Do not give up, not just Ashley's family, but any families of victims that are out there, don't give up hope. It hurts so bad, but it's so precious. You cannot let it go. I had a guilt this whole last year over my daughter being on that indictment, and all I could tell Melissa was it's just not yet. It's not that it's not happening.

It's just not yet. And there are families that I have reached out in other states with victims who have nothing to do with Calhoun, and they are so lost. They need to know that they are seen and they are heard, and there's a world out there who cares. They care about their loved ones. It just doesn't feel like it at that moment.

I also have a message of permission to both Calhoun and other people like him out there. You are not the smartest person in the room. You think that you are and maybe the day of your crime you were. But you're no longer in your room. You're in my room and I know a lot of smart people. And there is no way you will keep going and not be caught. It doesn't matter if it's two days, two weeks, two months, two centuries. The world will find you.

Ashley Rial was last seen at a fast food restaurant in Portland on March 27, 2023. Police had released surveillance images of Ashley hoping that someone would recognize her and call. Her remains were found in May of that year in a wooded area. One published report cited a source is saying Ashley Rial knew Jesse Calhoun and that she had actually filed a domestic violence report against him, but investigators remain tight-lipped on that claim. A report from KATU TV in 2023 claimed the victims were homeless and had struggled with addiction. That same report claimed victim Joanna Speaks knew Jesse Calhoun as well. I'll have more on the victims later in the show. The current DA Nathan Vasquez was asked

whether Jesse Calhoun is a serial killer. From a legal standpoint, we look at this purely as these, and we focus on the victims. These were murders of some young women that obviously have had a huge, massive impact on their family, and that's where our focus is. Calhoun appeared in court on Monday and entered a plea to the murders. We're going to enter a not guilty plea, judge. We have already previously invoked Mr. Calhoun's right to remain silent, any previous consent to search or seize, as well as his right to counsel at all critical stages. We would simply reassert those rights. So that being said, Judge, I understand that we have our next status hearing scheduled in this matter for December 5th at 9 a.m. before your honor. All right. We'll keep

that date set as is then as the next date for this matter. So to talk about this case, I want to bring in two people who are basically experts in serial killers and high profile cases. We have Joseph Scott Morgan. He is a forensic death investigator and the host of the Bodybags podcast. And Mark Pete Meyer. He is a recently retired prosecutor from Hamilton County, Ohio. He has prosecuted many, many, many serial killers and many, many death penalty cases. So thank you to both of you for coming on. Joseph, I'll start with you here. We now have Jesse Calhoun charged in the murders of four women. In a very short period of time, he suspected in the death of a fifth woman, and Ashley Rial.

So what goes into this? Because it sounds like when these women were found, I mean, these were skeletal remains. They had to be skeletal remains that were found or at least very little left to look at. So how are they able to get this together and figure out, okay, it was Jesse Calhoun who did this, especially with the remains being found

probably weeks, if not months after the murders. Yeah, and some of these remains were found adjacent to bodies of water, which also makes this, it's a double-edged sword. Because just from a trace evidence standpoint, if you have water involved, and we know out in that area of the country, there is a lot of water involved

because it's always raining. In addition, you put them adjacent to a body of water. You lose trace evidence, and of course, that goes back to LaCard's principle in forensics. Every contact leaves a trace. You think about motivations for doing that, exposing the bodies, that sort of thing. Now, the other piece of this, and I think, is you're looking, and particularly if you talk to a behaviorist, they're always looking for patterns

and behavior relative to serial perpetrators. Geographic location fits into this. You know, the old adage about serial killers don't really hunt outside of the area that they're not familiar with. There are many exceptions to that. They don't hunt outside their race. there are exceptions to that as well. So all that stuff is not necessarily as static as you might think it is. Right now, though, we're kind of at a loss because we don't know the methodology that was used to end their lives. And I think that that's going to be significant because that is one area that they tend not to vary too much from. So jury is still out. on that waiting to hear more information about that and if you're talking about

decomposed remains that's really difficult for us to assess in the morgue if if all you have unless you have you know if you have the the ability or the good luck to find a high oid bone that may have been fractured but many times you with skeletal remains you're not going to find a hyoid bone it's one of the first things that scavengers go after tiny bones and it's off to the wind so I don't know we'll find out more hopefully soon yeah hopefully i mean this trial isn't scheduled until 2027 mark i mean that's a really long time away um so so first of all i want to get your reaction to the trial

being scheduled so far out i mean this investigation has been underway since 2023 and they've had this guy as their as their guy essentially person of interest since you know june of 23 so so why are we scheduling this thing so far out I don't know. In fact, I'm surprised a defense attorney would agree to that because, you know, all states have a speedy trial. In Ohio, it's 90 days if you're locked up. And 90 days from the time you're arrested unless you've requested a continuance, the case has to go to trial. So with that many murders to try and to put together at a trial, to me, the defense is at a advantage. They can say, fine, bring it on. If you arrested me on April 1st, you got to try me by just. July 1st. So I'm surprised the defense would agree to a continuance that long. For the state,

if I'm the family member, I'm going to think the same thing. Why are we waiting a year and a half to try this case? I mean, you shouldn't have arrested him and indicted him unless you had enough to go forward. So why are we waiting a year and a half? I don't understand that. I don't understand either side wanting to wait that long to try a case like this. Yeah, it's confounding to me. And Mark, you know, just one, one other question to you, you know, the DA, you know, I think this is part of the reason this, this particular DA won this, this election, you know, because there were a lot of questions about whether this guy should have been granted clemency in the first place and the past DA didn't really like take a position on it. But, but he when asked if this is, if, if Jesse Calhoun is a serial killer, do you call him a serial killer? He said, you know, we're going to focus on the victims. And of course, you know, Jesse Calhoun has a right to a fair trial. And, you know, he, you got to be careful what you say as an elected prosecutor.

You don't want to, you know, slander him or label him something and then have it come back to bite you in a motion later. But would you call this guy a serial killer? I mean, the remains of four women, five really, found in a four, three or four month period. I mean, as somebody who's prosecuted serial killers, would you call this guy a serial killer? I would call him a serial killer in all bold capital letters. I mean, he is a serial killer, no question about it. You know, one or two people, you can say, well, it's something to, but when you get the three or four or five people and they're all young women, it's a serial killer. I'm, you know, what the, as Joseph said, the remains being decomposed, you know, the first thing in the corner has to make a rolling on is the manner of death.

Was this a homicide? I mean, if these are people that abuse drugs, was it an overdose? Did they just die of the elements? So you rely a lot on the corner in a situation like this. And like Joseph said, the hyoid bone, it's right in the neck, and it would be an indication of strangulation. But the manner of death and also the cause of death, the cause of death, was it a blunt force trauma? Was it strangulation? Was it a gunshot?

if the manner of death and the cause of death, the manner of death being homicide and the cause are very similar. Again, that's the indication of a serial killer. If all of them were strangled, it's a serial killer. If all of them were blunt force trauma in the head was caved in. But you rely so much on the corner when you have a case like this with decomposed bodies. But again, they've gone forward and indicted it. So they are convinced it's a homicide and this guy did it.

I don't know what they've put out as far as whatever. evidence they have, but you don't indict a case like this unless you're sure you can prove it. Yeah. Yeah. And we really have no evidence here. We just know that there were the remains of these women. They're all relatively young, you know, anywhere between 22 and 32. We know, let's talk victimology here for a second, Joseph, that they're women who a lot of them, you know, struggled with addiction or had mental health issues. And, you know, they were homeless. Some of for a time here or there. So this is a guy, Jesse Lee Calhoun,

who's granted clemency and he gets out of prison where he's serving time for burglary and theft. And then, you know, he's not out long. And then the DA basically and the cops are saying, he's not out long after being granted clemency. And then he's apparently hooking up or getting involved with women who have struggles. And so he's apparently able to gain access

to these women and for whatever reason and we don't know what that reason is not that any reason would make sense he's taking their lives yeah yeah i got i got to uh tell this very briefly in my career working serialized events like this um in both new orleans and atlanta i every single series that I was involved with were sex workers or homeless women, with the exception of one grouping, and that was a group of elderly women that were strangled to death in their homes. And there's a type there that you're looking for. You know, elderly women are not going to fight back or have little or no ability to when faced with a grown man that's coming in here that's robust physically.

I find it fascinating that the governor offer clemency to this individual. And this was like one of those big sweeping things that this individual was doing as they were leaving office. All of a sudden a switch flipped when he got out of the joint and he starts, perhaps allegedly, starts targeting these women. This might be a monumental error on the part. I hate to even use the word error that seems like it's doing a disservice to these women on the part of the politicians that cut this guy loose. I look back over his criminal history and I didn't see anything in the list that I have per the media that gives you an indication that he had any kind of history of sexual violence, which many times you'll have that lead up. He had an assault beef that he got hooked up on many years ago, but I didn't see anything like, you know, inappropriate behavior with women and all that sort of thing. But back to the idea of prosecuting this guy for these four women, they have something.

There is, you know, because what we've just heard, per our counselor, is that they're not going to move forward with a case. like this unless they have some kind of connectivity. Now, whether that's forensic evidence that they have, circumstantial evidence, there's something that they have because they're really sticking their neck out with this. And I agree as well, why in the world are you going to take so long to prosecute this thing? If you have enough data to tie him to four homicides, give me a break. What are you doing? What is there out there? And again, I think, you know, his clonies has been revoked anyway. Right. And maybe they're thinking they can just sit on him. But, But, you know, to my colleague's point, speedy trial, you know, you're really pointing your finger at this guy.

And this is, they're really dragging their feet on this. I don't understand. I don't know that I've ever encountered this or heard about this in the case I've covered in the media. Mark, I want to go to you on this whole clemency issue because you are somebody who has fought to keep people behind bars who shouldn't be released, you know, people who shouldn't be paroled. And this, this Jesse Lee Calhoun, you know, was granted clemency, granted he was in there for burglary and theft. And there isn't a lot out there about his, his criminal background. We do know he does have a criminal history. But, you know, he got, he got granted clemency for, you know, good behavior and being a firefighter during wildfires in prison.

I mean, I think it goes without saying that if he had not been granted clemency, if he had just been kept in, these women would still be alive. And what I read in the papers, the articles you sent, the prosecutors in the other counties, all were given a list, these are the people we're going to give clemency to review them and let us know your feelings. And most of the prosecutors would send back and say, I'm okay with one through five, but six through ten, no.

And the governor did not grant clemency on most of the cases the prosecutor objected. In this particular county, was no feedback at all. I forget how many in that county. And, you know, burglary is a serious crime. I mean, I know it said assault and burglary, but burglary is breaking into someone's residence with the purpose to commit a crime. And to me, that is one of the, I would not just shrug off a burglary. I mean, that is anybody that's been burglarized, they never feel comfortable in their home again. If you come home and you find that somebody's been in there, something's been

stolen, somebody's been in your house, that is serious. And I can't imagine ever not objecting to clemency for something like that. If somebody's got the stones to break into somebody's house, while they may be there, that's a dangerous person. So I'm surprised they did not object just on that basis alone. Yeah, it's incredibly disturbing. You know, at least two of these victims knew each other and were connected to Jesse Calhoun somehow. So he, he knew them somehow. And, you know, Ashley Rial, there's this report by the Willamette Week from a couple years back. And the DA and the police, they won't confirm it. They won't discuss it. And I'm sure it's part of their case. I'm sure this is, you know, part of the meat of their case that they don't want out there. But she apparently had, and he's not charged with murdering her, but he's certainly suspected of murdering her. And he could be charged in the months ahead with her murder. They're still looking at it. But she apparently. apparently filed a DV complaint, a domestic violence complaint against him. So we do have that connection there.

And so two of the other victims were connected to one another. So these women may have been, may have all known each other and then somehow they are the connection to him. And so is that where maybe they just don't want that cat out of the bag right now? You know, why would they keep that so close to the vest? I don't know. And one of the things, all states have a similar other acts evidence rule. In Ohio, it's evidence, I still remember it, 4-4B, but if you have, if I have a lot of evidence on, let's say, four cases, then the fifth victim, everything is similar about it, but I don't have DNA, I don't have a witness, I don't have a confession. But if this person is killed in the same manner, it's one of the same group, you can, the jury is allowed to consider the evidence on the other case. in considering that case. So to me, if this woman is connected that closely, just on the other acts of it, you may be able to prove it. What's really going to be telling here is one

of the first thing that's happened in any criminal case is the defense files a request for discovery, and the prosecutor's got to give them every witness in the case, every witness statement, all the forensics as far as the autopsy, so they can see how these person did die? What was the manner of death that caused the death? And any forensics? Is there any fingerprints? Is there any DNA? So that's really going to be telling because that's when the prosecutor basically has to put up or shut up. Here's my case. And that's when the defense can really decide. And if I'm a defense attorney, and I see that they have a very weak case, I'm going to file a request with the court to advance a trial date. I'm going to say, hey, look, my guy shouldn't sit in jail for a year

and a half. When I've looked at what they got, and, you know, it's the minor leagues versus the New York Yankees. I mean, we're going to kill them. So that's really going to be telling in this case. Yeah. Yeah, put up or shut up. Joseph, you know, one thing that I think they must have in this case, obviously we're speculating here, but I think they must have electronic evidence in this case, like cell phone records, cell phone data, and they're just not putting that out there. Yeah, Brave New World. We see this play out over and over. again. We've just come off covering Coburger. That's a big piece to it. And, you know, he's, he's just one of a number of these things. I was talking to colleague not too long ago that's a

behaviorist. And he's of the opinion that the days of what we used to think about with serial perpetrators, they're kind of gone. It's a, it's kind of a new error that we're entering into because of electronic data and everybody has these damn boat acres that are tied around their necks and so serial killers so everywhere you go you know you can be tracked and that sort of thing it would not surprise me if they have that kind of data also CCTV data and i wanted to throw this out there as well if if these girls ladies are in involved in any kind of criminal activity on their own part. And I'm thinking sex trade.

This is a concentric event where you've got people that know each other. You're going to have, as we say, if these women are out on the stroll, they actually have colleagues out there. And I've had cases where people have said, yeah, a guy in the black car keeps coming around here. You know, we saw her get into the car, you know, and that's the last we ever saw of her. And that individual keeps popping up in that sense. So I'd be curious about witness statements. You know, Mark had mentioned that, you know, people that, and that's going to come out in discovery, you know, any of these women that were out on the street that were either living in a homeless encampment or perhaps working, you know, did any of them see anything? and have they provided information?

And again, we're looking for something that this tieback, this anchor, you know, that you have to have legally in order to tie all of these cases together. That's going to be a fascinating part of this. And again, not knowing the status of the bodies as far as they're relative to how far gone they are from a decompositional standpoint, they're going to have to come fast and furious with that other that other information because you know how many of these cases have we covered where the you know the cause of death we listed as non-specific homicidal trauma as many times and that's phraseology that varies all across the country but what they what they're saying the m e is saying

and that is that we know that this is a homicide but we can't tell you specifically and again that goes to whatever, you know, means that they use to facilitate this. It was it blunt force trauma? Do all these girls have like skull fractures? Or, again, asphyxiation, there's a lot that we need for that because soft tissue is gone. If they're decomposed, we're not going to be able to appreciate patiki eye or even any kind of contusions that might exist in the strap muscles, that sort of thing. So it's going to be challenging, but apparently they have, they have other ways of

connecting this. So, you know, I'm, you know, you got me hooked. I want to, I want to know more at this point in time. Yeah, I think we all know, we all want to know more. Through the lens of the prosecutor, Mark, are you thinking we're on the right track here with cell phone data? Joseph mentioned CCTV footage, surveillance cameras, that type of thing. Yes, in fact, I know we, I reviewed when we talked three years ago about these cases. And those are some of the things I mentioned, the geo-fencing, where you can put the cell phone area. You look at ring doorbell cameras. You look at cameras all over the city where they were last seen,

and sometimes you can really get some good. You know, another thing that may come up in this, and it shows you the control that the actual judge on the case has, is the defense may file a motion for separate trials. You know, you've got four murders on different dates, and this person is charged with all of them. If I'm the defense attorney, I'm going to say, I want four separate trials because I'm going to be prejudiced by those other cases being heard at the same time.

The prosecutor obviously wants to try them all together, but the court does have the authority to grant four separate trials. And that would really weaken the prosecutor's case because, you know, you can build on these, like I said, before the other acts evidence. Again, that's something the judge would have to decide whether they're going to allow it in or not. So that's something else that has to play out. And again, that's one of the first things I've do if I'm the defense attorney. I want this murder tried on this date. A month later, we can do the next one

and the next one and the next one and the next one. And again, that's totally in the control of the assigned judge on the case. Do you see a judge, though, granting that motion, a motion to kind of sever the cases? Yes. I mean, it's, again, it depends on the judge,

depends on the ideology of the judge. And if it's a very liberal judge, yes, I could see that happening. It's totally legal. I mean, it's, it's a judgment call by the judge. And the question is, will the defendant be prejudiced? And obviously, he would be by the evidence in the other cases. And on that basis alone, the judge could say, it's not fair to this defendant to have all these cases tried at once. So I'm going to divide them up into four equal cases. It's, again, it's a totally judgment called by the judge. Got it. Joseph, you know, Ashley Rial, they said that case is very important to them and they're still looking at it. What do you think the hold up is with that? I mean, it took them a really long time to file the charge in Kristen Smith's case. Obviously, they felt, look, we can't go to the grand jury with us until we feel we have this buttoned up. That's why it took them so long.

And for the families, that's agonizing. But you can't just go, you can't just go with your gut. you got to go to the grand jury with the intention of, yeah, the bar is probable cause, but you got to go to the grand jury and know that you've got the goods to get a conviction at trial. So what do you think they're waiting on with her case? Yeah, if you're the prosecutor that's in charge of the grand jury and you're presenting this case, you have to come with goods and listen, you know, you think about, you know, we had talked about kind of geographic profiling, that sort of thing.

Maybe the remains are similar in the way they're deposited or were treated after death. But is, I think, a big question here, does she have the same linkage that the other victims have? And that might be what they're working on, you know, at this point in time. I don't know why they haven't developed that yet, but yet their rumors are in the wind that he's going to be attached to this. So what do they have that's similar and what is it that they're missing, I think, probably from an evidentiary standpoint, that could, you know, kind of marry her up with these other victims. And, you know, they've already pulled the trigger on four. So what's preventing them from pulling the trigger on this one? And it's fascinating to try to understand this.

And it's going to be a combination, I think, of a lot of these kind of points. points along the way where we're talking about any kind of circumstantial information, you know, interviews. Was she an outlier, you know, compared to the other victims? Is there, is she outside of the norm, perhaps, as far as profile goes? And was there something where they're kind of hedging their bets relative to the cause of death on her as opposed to the other ones that they're speculating on at this point in time, or at least to the best of our knowledge? Mark, do you think they're just waiting maybe for like one or two final pieces of evidence to seal this thing up? I would think so. And I don't think if it's a very weak case and you really could not prove it on its own, then you indict it and join it with the other ones for trial. You kind of weaken the other cases. It kind of shows that you're willing to go forward. If that's all you have on that case, I mean, you only have a little bit more on the fourth victim and a little bit more on the third. So I would not want to add a added.

if I thought it might weaken the other cases. And if you can't prove it on its own, I don't know that you're going to prove it linked with the other cases. So I would not add it unless I was sure I could prove it. Well, we will keep an eye on it. I really thank both of you for coming on and offering your time and your expertise. Mark Pete Meyer and Joseph Scott Morgan. Thank you so much.

Nice to thought again, Anandette. See you. Thank you, ma'am. Now I want to tell you more about the victims in this case. Each woman had family and friends who loved them dearly. Bridget Webster's grandfather, who raised her, told a local TV station that she was fantastic. She was a great student, always smiling, always happy. She was my little girl.

Bridget was 31 years old when she was killed. Charity Perry was 24 years old when she was murdered. Her family said they wanted her to be remembered for her kindness, and they want to raise awareness about mental health since Charity struggled with mental health issues before her death. Her mother said she had a smile that could light up the world. and called her an amazing person. Joanna Speaks was remembered by her family as a bright light, someone who was always pulling pranks.

Sadly, she struggled with addiction for years before her murder, and at the age of 32, she was killed. One of her sisters told a news outlet that her trusting nature eventually worked against her. Joanna was the middle child of eight. Kristen Smith was 22 when she was murdered in November of 2022. Her mother has described her. her as someone with a bright personality and a great sense of humor.

And finally, Ashley Real, she was a petite 22-year-old woman. Her father told a TV station after her murder that something in his heart was now missing and that he sadly could not protect her. Jesse Calhoun's trial, as I mentioned earlier, is scheduled to begin in 2027 and he'll be back in court in December. And that's it for this episode of Crime Fix. I'm Ann Jeanette Levy. Thanks so much for being with me.

I'll see you back here next time. Thank you.