Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - Top 6 Moments in Christopher Gregor's Star Witness' Testimony

Episode Date: May 30, 2024

Christopher Gregor's defense case ended with the testimony of a renowned forensic pathologist called to counter the prosecution's claims that Corey Micciolo was murdered. Dr. Michael Baden has investigated hundreds of high-profile deaths including the deaths of Jeffery Epstein and George Floyd. He also re-investigated the murders of President John F. Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Law&Crime's Angenette Levy goes through the top moments in Dr. Baden's testimony about Corey's death in this episode of Crime Fix — a daily show covering the biggest stories in crime.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW: If you’ve used Incognito mode in Google’s Chrome browser, find out if you have a claim in a few clicks by visiting https://www.incognitoclaims.com/crimefix/?v=cf8Host:Angenette Levy  https://twitter.com/Angenette5CRIME FIX PRODUCTION:Head of Social Media, YouTube - Bobby SzokeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinVideo Editing - Daniel CamachoAudio Editing - Brad MaybeGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@LawandCrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this law and crimes series ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. So to you, your opinion is that's more reflective of an infection than it is to an actual injury. That's correct. The star witness in Christopher Greger's murder trial takes the stand to testify about the cause of death for six-year-old Corey Michelo. Did you form an opinion as to the manner of death? Well, my opinion would be that the manner of death, for all the information that we have, is natural. I have the top moments from the testimony of renowned forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Bodden and

the moment Gregor decides whether to take the stand or not. This is a Law & Crime Legal Alert. Google Incognito tracked users' browsing data without their knowledge. Mass Tort Alliance, one of our legal sponsors, is helping users file for compensation because Google users' privacy issues through their Incognito browser. If you've used Google Incognito anytime since 2016, you can start your claim in less than ten questions. Just log on to IncognitoClaims.com slash CrimeFix.

Thanks for joining me for CrimeFix. I'm Anjanette Levy. Cory Michello's cause and manner of death has been disputed since the first day of this trial. The prosecution says the six-year-old boy died from injuries caused by his father, Christopher Greger, on April 2nd, 2021. It was Good Friday, and Corey was off school that day. But Greger says he is not a murderer, and Corey died from a medical condition, a blood infection called sepsis and pneumonia.

The prosecution called a number of witnesses to testify during the trial, while the defense called a handful of witnesses, including forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Bodden. Dr. Bodden has been around for a very long time, decades in fact. He's investigated many, many high-profile deaths, including the deaths of Jeffrey Epstein. And he also reinvestigated the murders of President John F. Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Now, Dr. Bodden has testified as an expert witness for Christopher Greger. So he brings a long resume and celebrity status. Now, do you have an opinion after you reviewed all the material in regard to Corey's cause of that? I do.

Can you tell the jurors what that opinion is as to Corey's cause of death? I think that Corey's cause of death has been confused because of extensive injuries caused by this CPR process that I agree with a part of Dr. Ragasa's cause of death that indicates injuries to the heart and other organs, which I think are typical vigorous CPR injuries. And I don't agree with that part, but I do agree with the inflammation and sepsis part of his diagnosis. The inflammation and sepsis part of Dr. Ragas' diagnosis refers to inflammation in the lung and the finding on culture of bacteria in the lung

that could cause pneumonia and sepsis. So I think my cause of death is different than Dr. Ragasa's in recognizing, in my opinion, that the injuries are all CPR injuries. Nobody can live for more than two minutes with a one-half-inch laceration of the heart, for example. And I do agree that the most likely cause of death is the lung inflammation, the bacterial capture of what the bacteria was, and his symptoms,

the symptoms of shortness of breath, cyanosis, means a bluish color due to low oxygen. Finding in the hospital that he had an 85% oxygen level, which is very low. All of us here would have about 97% or higher. So Dr. Abadden's opinion differs dramatically from the experts who testified for the prosecution. The experts who testified for the prosecution believe Corey died from trauma caused in the hours before he died. Here's more of what Dr. Bodden said about Corey's cause and manner of death.

So I think all together, the most likely cause of death was a very severe, rapid pneumonia. Did you form an opinion as to the manner of death? Well, my opinion would be that the manner of death, for all the information that we have, is natural. Dr. Bodden said there could have been other causes of death. For instance, he said sometimes children can die suddenly. He called it sudden, unexplained death in childhood. But there were injuries to Corey's heart that he felt were caused by CPR performed in an effort to save Corey's life. What would be usual CPR on a six-year-old child? Well, normally, if the heart doesn't respond

by developing its own normal sinus rhythm, the CPR will stop. That is, it's fruitless usually after 20 minutes. And how long was CPR conducted before? 49 minutes. Now remember, the defense has a very different job than the prosecution in this case. The prosecution has to prove its case, its theory beyond a reasonable doubt that Christopher Greger injured Corey so badly that it caused his death. The defense doesn't have to prove anything. They have no burden,

but Greger's defense has decided to put on a case and they're trying to cast doubt on the prosecution's theory. One thing that attorney Mario Gallucci asked Dr. Bodden about is a laceration to Corey's heart that doctors testifying for the state had discussed in prior testimony. Now, doctor, there's been a lot made about an injury to Corey's heart through this trial. In the medical examiner's report, I believe it's described as a one and a half inch laceration to the heart. Do you have an opinion as to how that one and a half inch laceration to the heart occurred?

My opinion is that that laceration occurred from continuous CPR compression of the heart between the sternum, the breast bone and the spine that happens with sufficient compression of the heart. The heart has no place to go between the sternum and the thoracic spine so that injuries are common in the heart

and lacerations of the heart are not the most common but can occur. So now, if somebody was to sustain a one and a half inch laceration to the heart, would that be something that could kill them? Absolutely. And how long would it take a person to die had they received a one-half laceration to the heart? Well, the heart would stop beating within a minute or two. That is, the heart needs the electrical circuits in the heart to be functioning. And

not only does the laceration cut through the muscle, but also through all the nerves in that area, which would stop the electrical circuits in the heart. Here's what Dr. Bodden said about that laceration to Corey's heart and what would have happened had Christopher Greger caused that injury. If that injury had occurred at 2.02 in the afternoon up until 3.43 in the afternoon, that's when Mr. Greger arrived at the hospital with Corey, would he have been dead already? He couldn't live more than two minutes with that kind of injury. Yes, absolutely. So Dr. Bodden claims that Corey would not have survived more than two minutes with a laceration to his heart. He also talked more about the CPR that he believed caused blunt force trauma injuries to Corey's

chest. So let's go back to the blunt force trauma that you opined was due with the blunt force trauma was the CPR that damaged the heart, right? You've already testified, I believe, that that's not what killed him, right? That's correct. Could that have been why we see the response in the Polly's? Well, he had that response before CPR. When he had a 29,000 white count, his heart was pumping blood. He was alive.

And then when he passed away, the white count would not change. It just stayed the same afterwards. It wouldn't increase any more than that. So to you, your opinion is that's more reflective of an infection than it is to an actual injury. That's correct. Now, remember that selfie that Christopher Greger took of himself and Corey appearing to be asleep earlier in the afternoon, hours before he died? Dr. Bodden answered questions about that, along with a 33-second recording of Corey talking to his mother, Brianna Michelo,

earlier that morning. In your opinion, did Corey have cardiomyopathy? He did not have, no, he didn't have any kind of cardiomyopathy before CPR. And he based that upon a 33-second video where Corey is speaking to his, I believe his mother. Did you review that video? I did. Do you know how many words? By the way, did you see Corey on that video?

Yes. You did? The video I'm talking about, yes, I saw it. You heard Corey? No, I saw it. On the 33 second video? I believe so. The video which is audio of Corey.

Where he says, where is it, ah, sound? Yes. Yeah, I saw that. I listened to it. Okay. When you listen to that video, he also based his opinion on a photograph that was taken with Corey.

First of all, does that video, to you as a doctor, forensic pathologist, former medical examiner, does that video have any diagnostic value in forming an opinion as to the cause of death of Corey? Not to me. Does that photograph that was taken in 202 of Corey asleep on his father's lap with his father smiling, did that have any diagnostic value with respect to Corey's death? No. Are you able to make a medical diagnosis based upon a picture of a sleeping child? Not in this situation. Are you able to make a medical diagnosis on a 32-second video where a child says less than five words?

I can't. I can't. So that's Dr. Bodden's take. He believes Corey had an infection and that he died from complications of pneumonia and that trauma to his body was caused by CPR, not blunt force trauma caused by Christopher Greger. Then it was the prosecution's turn to cross-examine Dr. Bodden. The prosecutor started by asking Dr. Bodden about all of the things he didn't look at when considering Corey's manner and cause of death. And you didn't review any of the police reports from the Alcoa, Tennessee Police Department, correct?

From which one? The Alcoa, Tennessee Police Department. I don't believe so. Oh, and you didn't review the reports from the Ocean County Sheriff's Officer Crime Scene Investigation Unit, right? I believe that's true. Okay. And as a forensic pathologist doctor and someone who has performed numerous

autopsies, the facts surrounding a death or the attendant circumstances surrounding a death should be considered in determining the cause and matter of death, correct? Yes. Are you aware that when Corey went to school on March 22nd, he had a bruise on his forehead and was sent to the school nurse? I believe so. That sounds familiar. And you did not consider that in your opinion or include that detail in your report, correct?

I didn't consider that it had any relationship to the cause of death. And you also didn't put that fact within the report that you prepared, correct? I may not have, right. So, Doctor, are you aware that Corey's first grade teacher saw him the next day on Tuesday the 23rd and she saw a bruise and was concerned. I don't recall that. Prosecutor Christine Lento then questioned Dr. Bodden about other bruising that Corey's mother and family members had noticed on Corey in the days before he died.

And are you aware that Corey's mother saw an imprint bruise and scrape on his chest when she was with Corey on March 23rd of 2021, where Corey was scared and upset, correct? I remember there was a large bruise on his chest, yes. And again, you didn't include that detail in your report, right, doctor? That's part of the bruises I looked at, and that was a legitimate bruise, and it happened many days before he died. Do you know that on March 25th of 2021, the defendant conducted a search on his phone as to real red marks turn into bruises? No.

You weren't aware of that, doctor? No. And were you aware that on Friday, March 26, Corey was kept out of school with an unverified absence? I don't know. You didn't know that, doctor? Probably not. I don't recall that. Lento also questioned Dr. Bodden about things Corey's teacher observed.

So, doctor, you didn't consider that Corey's teacher, the person who would be with him every single day, was concerned about bruising and saw this on Corey's body in formulating your opinion as to cause and your manner of death? My opinion as to cause and manner of death were dependent on the findings at the time of death and that whatever injuries and bruises which I looked at and which Dr. Ragasa described did not cause or contribute to his death.

That was my opinion after looking at the various bruises, and I agree with Dr. Ragasa that had nothing to do with his death. Okay, so you reviewed medical records from IV pediatrics? Yes. And you noted in your report that Corey's mother brought him first to Ivy Pediatrics, then to Community Medical Center, and then to Jersey Shore University Hospital, correct? Yes. Lento moved on to medical exams of Corey and what doctors found the night before he died. Now, at approximately 10.49 on the evening of April 1st, blood work was collected from Corey so panels could be run while he was

at Jersey Shore, correct? Could you repeat that, please? At approximately 1049 on the evening of April 1st, blood work, blood was collected from Corey so panels could be run regarding his blood work. Yes. And so this would have been approximately 17 hours before Corey was admitted to Southern Ocean Hospital on April 2nd, correct? Right.

And Corey's white blood cell count was within normal limits about 17 hours before he presented at the hospital the next day, correct? Yes. And at 11.01 p.m., a skeletal bone survey was conducted at Jersey Shore, right? Yes. And at 11.01pm a skeletal bone survey was conducted at Jersey Shore, right? Yes. And as part of the survey, a chest x-ray was performed, right? Yes. And the condition of Corey's lungs were noted to be clear with no infiltration, with no significant findings, correct? Yes. And Corey was not admitted as a patient

at Jersey Shore, right? That's correct. And Corey was not admitted as a patient at Jersey Shore, right? That's correct. And Corey did not actually see the staff pediatric child abuse specialist while at Jersey Shore the evening of the 1st, right? I don't recall that. And were you aware, doctor, that that weekend was Easter weekend? Yes. The prosecution has argued that Corey was healthy except for his bruises until his mother dropped him off at his father's apartment. And are you aware that at 9.49 a.m. that morning, the defendant sent a text to Corey's mother stating that she was going to be in for a rude awakening, not indicating that Corey was sick at all? I don't recall reading any text messages.

Are you aware that at 9.55 a.m. the defendant sent a message to a female named Amy confirming that Corey was okay when he was brought home that morning? I didn't see any text messages. So you didn't review the text messages in association of this case? That's correct. Lento also asked Dr. Bodden about a search that Gregor performed on his phone at a critical time. Do you know that at approximately 3.08 p.m. on April 2nd, the defendant conducted a search on his phone for lost consciousness, sleepy, and nauseous?

No. And did you know, doctor, that the defendant deleted this search from his cellular phone? No. And were you aware that the defendant deleted his text messages between himself and Corey's mother for days around the time when Corey had passed? No. Are you aware that at approximately 3.30 on the 2nd, the defendant spoke to Corey's mom on the telephone and told her that he was bringing Corey to the hospital, but didn't tell her what hospital he was actually taking Corey to? I don't recall that. Doctor, did you review the surveillance videos from Southern Ocean Hospital? Did I review the...

Surveillance videos from Southern Ocean Hospital? No. Okay, doctor, you didn't review multiple different surveillance videos from Southern Ocean Hospital where the defendant is seen taking Corey to the emergency room and taking him from the back seat of his car. You didn't see that video? No. Did you see the video when Corey presented at Southern Ocean Medical Center where you can see the condition that Corey was in when he actually presented to the hospital? I don't believe so. And questions on cross

examination had also covered the CPR that had been performed on Corey in the emergency room. Now, doctor, are you aware that the CPR that was performed on Corey has been described before the jury as pediatric CPR? Sure. And are you aware that the nurse who actually supervised the CPR had testified that one hand CPR, pediatric CPR, was performed on Corey because he was six years old? I don't remember the details, but sounds right. Now, doctor, those details, that's not anywhere in your report, correct? No. Dr. Bodden said he was not aware of several things that the prosecution says makes Christopher Gregor guilty of murder, including the fact that

Christopher Gregor left the hospital a short time after Corey was pronounced dead. And that he didn't tell Brianna Michelo, Corey's mother, which hospital he was taking Corey to for treatment. And there was also this. Are you aware that the defendant did not answer calls from Corey's mother at 5 p.m. and 5.04 p.m.? No. No. No. No. Are you aware that when the defendant put his phone back on, he was in Arkansas by the Texas border?

No. Are you aware that the defendant spoke to his father in a 25-minute phone call where his father told him to come back, and only then did he turn around and start heading East, Doctor. The cross ended with Dr. Bodden saying he was 55 to 60 percent sure that Corey's death was not caused by trauma to his heart. So you're not absolutely certain that that's how Corey died, because as you just said, there could have been other possibilities, correct? You're confusing what I'm saying. I'm absolutely certain that he didn't die of cardiac trauma, as was Dr. Ragasso, when he did the autopsy, put down after the heart disease, questioned CPR,

right on the first day that he looked at those injuries. So I'm certain he did, and from the fact that he can't live more than a couple of minutes with that kind of injury, I'm certain he didn't die of heart and liver and lung injury. I think the most likely cause of death is some kind of pneumonia that developed that evening after he went to a number of hospitals where he could have picked up that bacteria. But that's the most likely. But I'm not saying

it's definite. Okay, doctor. I appreciate that. And you also said during your direct examination that Corey could have died from sudden, unexpected sexual death syndrome? Yes, sudden, unexpected no, sudden unexplained death in children, in childhood

death in childhood, which is a cause of death that is listed hundreds of times every year in children who die like Corey where the cause of death isn't certain. Okay, so the cause of death is not certain. And are you aware, Doctor, that Corey was almost seven years old when he passed? Yes, I am. Gregor leaving the hospital and driving to Tennessee is what the

prosecution says shows consciousness of guilt, while the defense says Gregor was simply grieving. In all your years in practice, do all people grieve the same way? No, absolutely not. People grieve in totally different ways and react to the death of a loved one in different ways. And there's no just one way that people are upset. Absolutely not. Now, did the fact that Christopher left the hospital and drove to Arkansas and came back have anything

at all to do with your diagnosis as the cause and manner of death? No. So this really set up a battle of the experts between the state and the defense, and it will be up to the jury to decide which side was right and how Corey died. Now, we were expecting Christopher Greger to testify, but that didn't end up happening. If you choose to testify, the state would be permitted to cross-examine you. In other words, you wouldn't be able to revoke your decision after you testified on direct and not be subject to cross-examination. Do you understand that? Yes, sir. After having met with your attorney and discussed the matter, well, let me back

up. I also previewed this with you last week as well to give you a notice I was going to have this hearing with you. Is that right? Yes. And between then and today, have you had time to consider what decision you want to make? I have. And you understand this is a decision that's personal to you. You're certainly expected to consult with your attorneys, but ultimately the decision whether you elect your right to remain silent or elect your right to testify is your decision. Do you understand that?

Yes, sir. And have you reached the decision, Mr. Greger? I have. And at this time, can you tell me what that is? I will not testify, Your Honor. Mr. Gallucci, are you satisfied that your attorney, excuse me, your client is making that decision knowingly and voluntarily? He is, Your Honor. And that's it for this episode of Crime Fix. I'm Anjanette Levy. Thanks so much for being with me.

I'll see you back here next time.