Crime in Sports - #245 - Da Mystery Of Chessboxin'... And Murder Plots - The Well Roundedness of Terry Marsh

Episode Date: February 9, 2021

This week, we have quite the tale, featuring a man, who was considered quite the success, having never been beaten in the ring, but a mysterious illness make him give up boxing, and instead dip into a strange existence, including being accused of a very flashy, and public shooting of his ex-manager, and a host of weird political goings on, that will make you wonder exactly how much brain damage he may have had inflicted upon him. Go your whole career without being defeated, be accused of one of the flashiest attempted street murders in the history of England, and run for office... sort of, with Terry Marsh!! Check us out, every Tuesday! We will continue to bring you the biggest idiots in sports history!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman Donate at... patreon.com/crimeinsports or with paypal.com using our email: [e-mail] Get all the CIS & STM merch at crimeinsports.threadless.com Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things CIS & STM!! Contact us on... twitter.com/[e-mail]/Crimeinsportsinstagram.com/smalltownmurder  See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey Prime members, you can listen to Crime and Sports early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the app today. Discover all the best in audiobooks, podcasts, and originals featuring authentic Canadian voices and celebrity talent, like Brendan Fraser and Luke Kirby's latest sci-fi adventure, The Downloaded. A first listen is waiting for you when you start your free trial at audible.ca. on the Mr. Ballin Podcast, now available wherever you get your podcasts, you'll hear strange, dark, and mysterious stories about inexplicable encounters, shocking disappearances, true crime cases, and everything in between. So go listen to Mr. Ballin Podcast, Strange, Dark, and Mysterious Stories on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to Crime and Sports! Yay! Yay indeed, Jimmy, yay indeed! My name is James Petrigallo, I'm here with my co-host. Yay! Yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed.

My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us again and again and again. We are super excited today. Brain damage sports today. Oh my goodness. Yeah.

And weirdly, oddly, with a guy who used his brain before that. So we get to see how far it went, let's just say. Crazy stuff. But before that, very quickly, just want how far it went let's just say crazy stuff but before that very quickly just want to thank everyone for your reviews this week that purple icon apple podcast they help for some reason you're doing the lord's work exactly thank you we we need them they help a lot give us five stars helps drive us up the charts for some reason head over to shut up and give me murder.com right now for all your merchandise how much cool merch do we have everywhere stuff up there all sorts of things

you can follow the show and everything like that get updates on later on in the year live shows all that sort of good fun stuff also you definitely definitely want to get on patreon let me tell you guys something right now our patreon episodes are awesome they are hilarious the last patreon episode was on kind of the the real goodfellas the mafia stuff which was we had so much fun with that as we always do with anything mafia and then the upcoming patreon we are going to do something very fun and not murdery and just outside the box we're going to do the worst wrestling characters in the history of wrestling. Oh, tremendous.

So we're just going to spend some time talking about the most ridiculous gimmicks ever. And Jimmy hasn't seen a lot of these, too, so I'll show him crazy pictures. It's going to be so much fun. You can get that and everything else, all of the bonus episodes, including all the Small Town Murder bonus episodes,

all of that at patreon.com slash crime and sports everything right there anybody above the five dollar level and jimmy will mispronounce your name at the end of the show why because you're a producer now right and we can't thank you enough for doing all of that and uh if you just want to be a producer get your name mispronounced and though you don't care about bonus content you just want you're interested in karma yeah you're interested in your soul, damn it. Well, you can do that over at PayPal using our email address, crimeinsports at gmail.com over there. And we thank you, honestly, for everything that you guys do for us.

Did you ever know that you're my hero? It is tremendous what you people do for us. So we really do appreciate it. And we cannot thank you enough for everything you do for us. That said, we would like to do stuff for you. Yeah. And this week we would like to give you we'd like to present you with a brain damage sport. Great.

And it's a lot of fun. So let's get right into it. Let's do this. It's a British fellow. Great. This week, which is amazing. His name is Terry Marsh. Yeah.

Okay. He does not look, sound, behave like a boxing. You would not expect to come out of this guy. Put it that way. It's very strange. The gentleman's sport. Well, his nickname is the fighting fireman. Well, because he's a fireman.

Yeah. As well as he's a military guy that then went into the fire department and then decided I should box. Yeah. I've been beating up fires. You know what's not dangerous enough? Fire. I feel like when something's burning, that's not as dangerous as if I, you know what I should do?

If I could really get my brain scrambled, then run into a burning building and be confused, that's the type of action that I'm looking for. That's better. So, yeah, he's born February 7th, 1958. He's born in Stepney, East London. Now, this area, I looked up this area a little bit just to see because London's very different parts of the city are very different. So I was like, is this the shit part? Is this is he is he posh?

What is he? So he's not. I found out not posh at all. Is he posh? What is he? So he's not. I found out not posh at all. This area was built up in the 1800s basically for immigrant workers and poor people.

This was just thrown together. This was like the Five Points or something like New York City. They threw it together to stick people in there to have places to live and developed a reputation for violence and overcrowding and you know became it's a shit area yeah it became a ghetto area so uh it was severely damaged during the you know the blitzkriegs that were happening yeah germans and shit shit uh structures if you bomb all around them a lot they'll just fall right to the ground all you needed to do was kick it you didn't even have to shoot that at it that's what i mean a bomb forget about it over a third of the housing was totally destroyed in that area and then in the 1960s they did a slum clearance and development project jesus to clear like well kind of like in the you know was it the third season of the wire

they're knocking down two to one i think it's one of those things that's a terrible way to word it slum clearance slum clearance everybody clearing the slums back out fuckers that's insulting clear them out let's go move them out on this straight full we're here for the slum clearance yeah but this isn't the slums you are oh okay all right march so i gotta go oh i'm gonna fuck off all right then all right then i have got to go isn't it and i guess this is where i leave in it it's the slum clearance isn't it and uh that room i didn't know we were the slum till y'all showed up and told us you were clearing it uh it. This development replaced most of the streets with tower blocks and modern housing. It was a bunch of old shit.

That's how I found out we were slum. Isn't it? So, yeah. Oh, boy. In 1965, the Rolling Stones song, Play With Fire, referenced this area in terms of its poorness. It's just all shit the lyric is uh apparently it's an heiress whose wealth has been carried off by her husband and it's quote

gets her kicks and stepney not in knightsbridge anymore it's all fucked up now she's all fucked out and stepney bad times this is the area he's from he's from a rundown shit area here so uh he's this is so contradictory to how he says it though i just told you all that yeah including a rolling stones lyric and then here is my childhood was roses it's it's better than that he he wrote a book called undefeated and we'll talk about i'm gonna quote from undefeated several times by the way we'll probably be sued for this episode this guy sues everybody really funny thing is he sues british people not first of all we're american so we don't have the same libel laws as you so haha second of all this is comedy so anything that we say can be construed as a joke so either way

you can save your shit and we have like an agent with a lawyer and stuff so you're really wasting your fucking time if you sue us he just sues people sit back and take it on the chin chief put it that way just like in boxing take it on the fucking shit how many times do you lose when some he loses some and so undefeated is is dumb no no in boxing we'll talk about it but in in in court he's not quite undefeated uh here and there here and there he doesn't win so he says this is from the book quote i had the best part i had the best start in my life that any kid could hope for yeah so exactly the opposite in the slums in the slums he says that he loved his parents called them wonderful maizey and jimmy marsh are their names he's the

third of four children okay here um he said there was jimmy jr of course there's got to be uh billy and then john is his kid brother and um there you go okay so uh um basically um she had problems with the first child oh um did with yeah with jimmy jr and uh there's something something wrong there uh i guess the pregnancy wasn't quite right and this is back in you know the 50s the early 1950 i think this jimmy was born so wasn't quite the same way to tell what's going on inside somebody you just kind of whatever pops out let's hope it doesn't have a like a tail and a horn and we'll work with whatever else it is that's basically what it was i mean we'll work with it so shave those off anyway we'll get it

down well at least we'll at least just kind of scrape them down a little bit here uh apparently uh jimmy ended up having a slower development and uh after a while as i don't know what the i don't know what his technical condition is i just have to go the quote of the book is quote jimmy was mentally retarded okay so either way he's got some brain damage he's got some yeah some some handicaps here um and he uh there's some disabilities here so he he i guess he can't ever take care of himself he lives with mother and father for the rest of his life it's pretty severe my goodness so yeah that's rough so i guess this made terry pretty angry he said that it just angered him he didn't didn't understand why his older brother was like that and he felt he felt like he was upset that this was like um his mother had to deal with this so much and he just felt terrible like he talks about a

story when he's older about his brother and just having like this fit and he felt so bad that his parents felt so bad that his mom had to deal with this and then his brother had to deal that he just felt terrible about the whole thing he said that he often is a quote from the book i often found myself standing up to other kids who had seen my brother as a source of amusement on some occasions the perpetrators were icons of hardness within the area and my challenges to them were moments of madness yet on such occasions it was they who blinked first so he also says i'm sure i would have got the shit beaten out of me but something in it they didn't want to i guess if you're fucking making fun of a of a fucking disabled kid right and making fun of him you know what you're fucking making fun of a fucking disabled kid and making fun of him, you know what you're doing.

And I guess if his brother stands up, who's eight years younger, is another thing. If you're 17 and this fucking nine-year-old who's super mad that you're making fun of his aunt, you're just like, yeah, all right, get out of here, I guess. You'd have to be a real piece of shit to then beat the fuck out of his little brother fucking you know names that's really a monster are you extra low that's extra low man yeah somebody but you know fucking knocking forrest gump down then kicking sally field in the twat and being like how do you like that forest you fucking mental midget not the same you know it's not nice so uh yeah he said that he uh you know it's kind of a small little terrace house he grew up in with with his brothers and uh one of the brothers having problems so it's a it's an active house let's just say james the best uh start that a child

can have it's the best ever he could have hoped for oh my and four no matter what four brothers is madness and chaos in a house. You could have 8,000 square feet and your house would be madness with four boys. It's never clean. It's a mess. And everywhere. They will make sure. Get over here.

That's not messy yet. Come on. No, that's already fucked up. Come over here. It's not sticky over here yet. Let's get some ants. Let's get some real sticky. I'm going to spill the high c put an open

mountain dew in your pocket do that circles put your juice box down and step on it by accident okay cool i'll go everywhere then it's all over the fucking place take the straw and put it in it and blow and then stomp it'll make a great cool noise. It's awesome. And the straw will go in the backyard. Right through the drywall. Right through it. You could kill a man. What? You could kill a man with a juice box straw.

You can. Stepped on like that. The way it comes out. One of those fucking Capri Sun straws. Those things are nasty. Those things are hard. And they're sharp. They're sharp.

You have to poke them through a foil plastic thing which is a what a strange delivery system for a drink that is what a dumb to tell you what we'll put it in a bag right because everyone likes to drink their drinks out of bags okay i get it they're trying to be distinctive that's the capri sun we're the bag juice all right bag juice and the bag has like a little crevice on the bottom that you can fold it flat and stack them or you can pop that little and stand it up sit it right up like a cup but it doesn't stand up but it's not a cup if you take one sip out of it it'll fall over because then the weight's distributed wrong but the straw itself is this sharp little straw but then it bends because it's thin at the

end and you have to poke it through the plastic and as you're poking it you're like plastic's gonna go in my drink or up my straw i'm definitely gonna inhale plastic on one way or another yeah and it doesn't go in right and then it's too big it's too small you can put it in sideways you fuck it all up go right through the whole fucking package go right how many times i've done that my goddamn kids god damn it son of a i'm much stronger than i was when i was nine i remember like i have destroyed those things i remember being on a field trip when i was in elementary school and having a capri sun on the field trip and bringing it from home and being fucking so scared to put the strongs i'm like if i find this i got one shot one chance if i fuck this up i got no capri sun so i remember

being real like oh man i was sweating it hard m&m and lose yourself is rapping about you trying to open it that's what it was it's me just like fuck man i could blow this whole thing there should be a tiktok of somebody i could bend the tip and the shit won't open my life is over man you know that pairs well with mom's spaghetti that's what it does that's what dave chappelle says anyway so uh he says quote i knew from an early age what it was like to be a champion yeah well that's pretty cool i didn't i still don't know what it's like to be a champion i was only nine years old when i gained my first title. What? I will always remember my first words as champ.

Checkmate. Oh, yes. I was the East London chess champion at nine. East London and chess, some say, was incongruous because not really the most biggest chess thing in the world. He says, was I the best of a bad bunch? I proved the doubters wrong when aged at aged 11 years i became the london champion so he claims yeah i guess he claims he was the london chess champion of his age bracket i guess that's awesome yeah i don't know i it's hard to really check up on that

i can't find the london youth chess brackets from the 1960s it's not really prominently displayed online unfortunately i'll take his word for it but you know what it's from the 1960s it's not really prominently displayed online unfortunately i'll take his word for it but you know what it's so specific yeah i'll buy it probably the guy and if not whatever was the champion gonna dispute it no but you know what works for our purposes because it's pretty fucking interesting i mean honestly it's pretty it's pretty interesting so yeah he was uh this is before he started boxing or anything he does that he uh i guess his father had done a little bit of boxing the way he puts it everybody in the neighborhood has he just says like everybody else my dad did um he said that his father had won a

school boy title oh so younger it's like a junior title beats up school boys yeah that's what it is it's how many school boys it's not beating up school boys specifically it's the number of school boys you can beat up at the same time. There's a certain title for that. He got the most. He got the most. I believe he was up to 14, which is an impressive amount. At that point, it's every angle.

So you really got to be. And schoolboy, it's a wide definition. It's anywhere from kindergarten to eighth. You got to watch out because some kids are coming at you. They're 5'11". You got some kids coming at your ankles. So you could be punching one kid. You got a couple of kindergartners attacking your feet.

You got to be careful. You look down to get them. Here comes an eighth grader. It's rough. That's a better sport. I'd watch that sport. For sure. I'd totally watch that sport.

Horrible as it is and horrible as it would be to watch a grown man punch children. If there's 14 of them, I feel less bad for them. They're almost like ninjas in a Bruce Lee movie. Like, he's just kicking them. They fall down. More come. It's just... Foot soldiers constantly fell when the Ninja Turtles beat them up.

That's what I'm saying. They just kept coming. Stormtroopers. They're pawns. Either way. Little kiddie pawns. They're disposable. There for the punching.

So, yeah. He said he won a schoolboy title and um he apparently he said that he this is from the book quote a title he achieved whilst wearing my grandmother's bloomers what mom always was quick to inform me ruffles i don't know why he was wearing his mom's underwear while he was fighting the hell's he my fight. Give me your underwear. I don't have any shorts, Ma. What? I need your bloomers, isn't it? What?

You need what now? Why the fuck are you wearing my underwear? All I've got is jeans. Yeah, put them on under your shorts. All I've got is all this corduroy. It's all this corduroy. He says that his dad lived in Stepney for 48 years. He said that his mom basically just was trying to give to everybody else and keep the family going.

If you have four sons and one of them is special needs, like very special. That's exhausting. Extra special needs, we'll say. That's a lot. So she doesn't have time to have any aspirations at this point she's just got to keep everything afloat is the way he puts it anyway um she said that her life revolved around her kids and uh she said one of her many tasks tasks was the twice weekly visits to ratcliff baths it was here that the washing was done gross um i think i think they mean it's like a laundromat

it's a laundromat yeah i was gonna say that's not like a but i don't think they're taking the family down there to hose off i think this is a laundromat but i think they actually do it by hand probably back then yeah horrible he said uh mom always had a lot of washing in in the first 20 years of motherhood mainly due to jimmy's bedwetting also his brother has damn it problem with that his special needs brother he says the sleeping arrangements were cramped mom and dad would sleep in the upstairs front bedroom while we kids were in the rear room i shared a bed with younger brother john while the other siblings had their own beds yeah the lack of space dictated that all the beds were squashed together this did not make for an easy task when it came to making them.

He said that he always, everybody always still had to keep their beds very neat and clean. Mom kept order among the house. It wasn't like, you know, do whatever you want. That wasn't the way it went down. Perhaps Jimmy did that just so that he had his own bed. Maybe, yeah.

I would. Yeah, I think they were going to make sure that nobody had to sleep with Jimmy. He says this. Here's a quote from the book. Quote, I don't know how else, I can't were going to make sure that nobody had to sleep with Jimmy. He says this. Here's a quote from the book. Quote, I don't know how else. I can't paraphrase this. Quote, the nocturnal toilet was a bucket.

Right away when I said nocturnal toilet, Jimmy goes, you know, something gross is coming up. He's like, oh, no, I see poop. Yeah, I see poop. He says the nocturnal toilet was a bucket sited on the small landing so we're in the shit bucket territory here jimmy this is some phillips phillips oklahoma fucking united kingdom it's not good not good it was either too cold or dark to visit the toilet at the bottom of the yard the backward sanitation was further highlighted by the absence of a bath. The best we could do was a sink in the kitchen. Oh, my God.

They're doing sitz baths in the sink? Yeah, this is some, like, Dust Bowl. This is bad. This is bad. And this is in the 60s. This isn't in the fucking 20s. No. I get it in the 20s or something.

The Beatles are jamming. They're the biggest thing in the world right now. Yeah. This is wild. Biggest thing in the world right now. Yeah. This is wild. A gas-fired contraption referred to as the geyser heated the cold water that run from the mains.

I don't know. What the hell? I guess that was the hot water heater. The gas was on a meter, and when the two bobs, 10 pence worth, had been extracted, the geyser would go out. Oh, no. So it's like on a limiter. You've got like a pay-as-you-go. Yeah. When you use it all

up you used it all up yeah i heard i've heard by the way of people in phoenix having that really with uh pay as you go srp where they have like they have to pay their electric like they have like a thing they pay it load it up and then when you use it yeah yeah yeah fuck that like a prepaid electricity thing i don't know how that's possible. People that have bad credit out here. I'm like, that seems horrible, though. Then it just goes out. It's like, well, I don't know. Put five bucks in the slot if you'd like your kids to do their homework.

What a weird. You're in the middle of the Queen's Gambit. Yeah. Is there any fucking thing else that you're watching? What is going on, man? And you got food on the stove. Yeah. The water's boiling.

The macaroni's in it i remember i've heard people saying that that they had to go pay their you know put 10 bucks on their electricity or some shit so they could go have electric i just put the noodles in the water and it shut off will you put five dollars in the electricity i just i'm trying to cook dinner can you load how do we do it load up the card that's miserable man can you just call and do we do it? Load up the card. That's miserable, man. Can you just call and do it? I don't know how. Oh, my God. I think there was a this was like maybe 10 years ago.

I think there was an actual like a contraption in your home. Oh, my. They gave you like a fucking box that you could like pay into and like you could like put your card in. And I hate that. It sounds awful, right? It's the fucking worst it's worse than slum clearance just pay your bills and don't get into this jesus christ

so um yeah we were in the same position as most down our street but our family was larger and my parents also had the additional problem of jimmy's bedwetting along with his poor personal hygiene in general so it was a it was a problem just the wall for kids the family ends up moving to a nicer area yeah okay the dad gets a job uh here gets a job as a lock keeper at tilbury dock it's about 20 miles away so it's a nicer area it's bob basildon or basildon in essex so a little better area and um yeah it was it was it was nice he said uh he wasn't sad about leaving he wanted to move you know he said our quote our new house had four bedrooms a dining room a sunroof a large fitted kitchen and two toilets wow he also had

a garden instead of a yard you lucky bastard he got yeah this is the dream i mean they got yeah this is feeling good this is gorgeous to feel amazing four bedrooms yeah the kids got their own rooms you got awesome probably the two youngers kids probably share one but still still the beds aren't touching this thing you're not crammed in with all the other beds and you know it's that's good so and uh you know more more room everything like that probably helpful for mom so uh marsh here terry goes to westminster city school between 1969 and 1971 and uh this is when after that he goes into the royal marines all right he served in cyprus and in uh what is this cross maglin in northern ireland during that whole Ireland during that whole kerfuffle.

Well, there was the whole Northern Ireland and all. There's a lot of fighting going on and shit like that. So, yeah, a lot of dust up. Christ, the 80s was a fucking disaster. Yeah. Really? Yeah, it was a crazy time, man. I thought post the potato famine, you could just go kiss a stone and drink a Guinness

and everybody's happy. Remember? Have you ever heard like U2's whole first album? It's all like. That was all strife there. It's all Irish strife. Sunday, bloody Sunday. Yeah.

Fucking Sunday, bloody Sunday. I mean, it's about. Yeah. It's all a lot of a lot of bad stuff going on. I knew that. Wow. Interesting. You learn something new on crime and sports every goddamn day, don't you?

Here. So he says at that point, he's watching TV and he says, quote, I saw an advert asking if you could hack it, offering the Green Berets as a reward. So I ended up joining. I ended up boxing for the Navy. So, yeah, he joins. He's in the Royal. He also is a Royal Marine, it says here. And he served, like I said, in those places.

He said that I won three national amateur titles. I got the best of both worlds as I also had the soldiering in Northern Ireland with the United Nations. And they asked him if he ever shot anyone. This is in an interview. And he said, I was shot at but never actually had to shoot anyone. We had to do. We had to. What is this? We had to do. We had to. What is this?

We had to what you call win the firefight. You have to put rounds down. But collectively, I think some cows were killed. So, yeah, they just basically had to put rounds down range firepower enough to make people go away. That's all. So let's show that. So later on, after the military, he becomes a firefighter with Essex County Fire and Rescue Service. So, yeah, that's what he does there.

And while he's doing that, he wants to box because he boxed while he was a kid coming up here and there, too. He boxed in the Navy. He won amateur titles. So he decides he wants to have a career here. Yeah. And he does it. He's five foot ten. Okay. He does not look like a boxer here yeah and he does it he's five foot ten okay he does not look like a boxer no he's a little guy he's a super lightweight eventually he'll move up to

welterweight want to see him while he's an amateur that little guy look at him oh he just looks like a pissed off little kid a little skinny kid yeah that's it yeah he's a little he does not look mad does not look like a man that you would be afraid of no he looks like you'd go oh not much yeah come on a little fight in that kid but yeah i'm not scared calm down yeah uh he says uh quote here quote i talk about my boxing career about the skinny anemic frail looking 11 year old who could not punch was always getting in with bigger guys and would always look like he was fighting his own dad in most of these fights up to a certain age. People thought that I would eventually get beaten, but because I looked so frail, people probably looked at me and thought they could blow me over.

The truth was that the frailness made me elusive and they couldn't knock me over. Suddenly, they would be a few rounds down in the four-round fight and I would nick the decision. So he just wears people down. They don't expect him to be any good, and they're like, I can't hit this little bastard. So his amateur career, 1973, he's a junior ABA champion. 74, he's the same. 1974, he's also the national schoolboy champion.

He's getting it. Wow, he's a national. How many schoolboys do you think he has to beat up at once to do that? That's got to be 15, 16 schoolboys for the whole country. Holy shit. They can only be British, right? I believe so. You can't really beat up the Greeks.

No, you can't just import schoolboys. You have to beat up like. You got to do your own. You have to homegrown schoolboys. What are you going to fucking beat up? Yeah. We're going to import Belgians to beat up. No one's going to give you their children to kick. That's a's a british thing yeah you know they want to be involved in it he's the champion uh three

times over now yeah 73 74 and then also 74 the schoolboy champion so two different two different types right yeah 1976 he's the nabc champion sounds important yeah sounds like national and boxing are probably in there so that's good i don't know what a and c stand for but whatever not american boxing not american boxing commission yeah that's what it is and then the 1978 aba lightweight champion he is as well so he's doing pretty fucking well he starts starts his amateur career here on April 19th, 1978, that I could find anyway. I mean, he was fighting all those fights, obviously, but kind of we have like a few fights here. April 1978. This is at King's Hall in Bellevue, Manchester.

Sounds big. Versus John McAllister. Okay. Sounds very British. This is the most British fight ever. Terry Marsh versus John McAllister. They just go around punching each other. How's that feeling? How's that feeling?

This is this is McAllister's debut as well. McAllister will eventually go on and be 11, 1 and 2 as a pro. So, yeah. Now, this is a he wins by points, wins a decision by points. Terry does. So he's 1 and0 as an amateur. He's always winning a lot of decisions by points, as we'll find out. He doesn't knock anybody out, ever.

May 5th, 1978, he fights at the Wembley Arena. I don't know if that's like a... It's a big deal, right? I don't think that's... Is it a side room? As I say, it's probably a side room, like Felt Forum from Madison Square Garden or something like that. He's probably fighting at Wembley. I don't't think 80 000 people are coming to see second fight that skinny kid fight edward uh gadgney never heard of either yeah yeah no well gadgney is one and oh coming in

and then terry beats him here and then he never fights again on any level so that's why you've never heard of edward gadgney oh that one guy was one and one as an amateur. He's so this makes him two and oh, he wins by points again. Terry Terry's, I guess Gadgety was the he was a one, a lightweight division title because it was in a tournament thing. So for that May 4th, 1979. So this is a year later, right? So 7080 fought and then almost a year to the day later here at the Wembley Arena again. He fights Eddie Copeland.

And this is Eddie Copeland's debut. It's his only amateur fight. But then he's a 10 and 1 as a pro. Wow. So he turns out to be a decent pro. This one, Terry loses on points. Shit. So he's a 2 and 1 as an amateur.

Next fight, May 2nd,nd 1980 so another year so he fights every may basically that's interesting yeah how do you expect to get better if you're fighting every may he fights eddie burn uh who's two and oh coming in and this is the last fight of his life eddie burn never fights again on any level maybe he didn't want to wait another fucking year i think so no not terry, not Terry. Eddie waited for him. Terry beats him by points, and Eddie is discouraged. Maybe he sees this skinny little shit, and he's like, if that guy beat me, I can't be a pro fighter. I'm clearly never going to be the best.

Seriously. He's retired a couple of people here so far. He wins by points again, three and one now. He also is the 1980 ABA welterweight champion, the 81 1980 aba welterweight champion the 81 aba welterweight champion and he's the 1981 multi-nations gold medalist in manila oh terry is so somehow he gets it done his next fight may 2nd 1981 he literally fights may of 78 79 80, 80, and 81. Wild. So strange. I don't know why that is here. He fights Chris Pratt. I would love to also. I know, right?

Come on, motherfucker. What you got? Come on, fucking dork. Well, this guy, I don't know if you'd want to fight this Chris Pratt. No? This Chris Pratt, it's his debut, but as a pro, he went 46 and 5. Oh, my. Yeah, he'd probably kick both of our asses, I would assume.

The only way the real Chris Pratt's doing that is if it's in the script. Oh it's gotta be in the script. Even then he'd stop and go should we tone it down a little? We should be a little nicer to each other. I'll take a couple of shots right? We'll do like a Rocky thing.

Fucking jerk. So he wins by points here. So he's 4 and 1 is Terry in the amateurs. He also won a multi-nations gold medal representing England in the Philippines in 81. So he's doing very well for himself. Decides why not turn pro? Yeah. Got to turn pro here.

He's got his promoter, too. He's got this promoter who's kind of a go. Frank Warren is his name. He's kind of this kind who's kind of a go uh frank warren is his name he's kind of this kind of real kind of brash kind of guy he's got rumored to be like you know hanging out with gangsters and all that she's a boxing promoter so you know scumbag yeah you know scumbag basically i've never i haven't met any any real scrupulous boxing promoters i haven't heard of any i really haven't i have no idea yeah that's you know my opinion but i mean you're basically saddled with the burden of lying

constantly you have to lie you're promoting right you got to stretch the truth you're trying to get an audience well plus you're trying to there's a lot of ends there's money that comes in that goes all the different ways and you're trying to slice out the biggest part just for you. So there's a certain level of scum that comes with that. You've got to canoe your own piece. That's what it is. It's a certain level of something. Taylor Swift is soaring high,

her every move captured in the news cycle and devoured by her devoted fans. She's broken billboard records and made Grammys history, not to mention becoming a billionaire in the process. But along the way, Taylor has had to wage war, first by taking on a very powerful, very famous manager, Scooter Braun, and then by going up against the biggest live events company, Ticketmaster. Hi, I'm David Brown, the host of Wondery's show Business Wars. We go deep into some of the biggest corporate rivalries of all time. And in our latest season, Taylor Swift will shake up not only the music business,

but Hollywood and the NFL. Follow Business Wars wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. The wait is over. So far, you're not losing. The only thing you're losing is my patience. Quickly, I see that. Bing!

The queen of the courtroom is back. I didn't do anything. You wouldn't know the truth if it came up and slapped you in the face. I see he's not intimidated by anything. I can fix that. New cases. She wanted to fight me. Leave a long okay so not this is not

a so this is a period classic Judy did you sleep with her yes your honor you married his cousin his brother that's not him yes ma'am I would make a beeline for the door. The Emmy Award winning series returns. How did I know that? I have a crystal ball in my head. It's an all new season. It's streaming. You can say anything. Judy Justice.

Only on Freebie. So his pro debut, October 12th, 1981, at the bloomsbury center hotel in bloomsbury where dreams come true jimmy uh versus andrew acosta who is oh and one coming in and this is his last fight ever okay so this is a win by decision for uh for terry he's one and oh october 28th so two weeks later he fights in town hall in Acton versus Dave Sullivan, who is like a 5-8 coming in. He's garbage. So he wins by points.

Terry does 2-0. All right. So he's cruising right along. Now he's not fighting once a year either. He's actually got to fight every couple weeks. Back at the Bloomsbury Hotel on November 23rd versus Ian Kidd-Muran kid murray this is and it's not like a nickname his name is like ian kid murray i think that's his middle name oh boy very weird it's not like there's no parenthesis or quotations around it or anything oh boy i don't know he's a 1938 and

three career fighter so he does kid as i say i don't think he remembers whether it's his real name or not no it doesn't matter he's not positive i don't think he remembers whether it's his real name or not. No, it doesn't matter. He's not positive. I don't even want to talk about boxing, to be honest with you. Yeah. I'm pretty poor. I got beat up a lot. It's kind of dramatic for me.

Painful memories. Painful. It's a very painful. He wins by points. Terry does making him three. You know, it's at this point I have to ask. There isn't a lot of back in like the 70s and 80s all these british guys none of them have nicknames no in the in the states we always there's all

these crazy silly nicknames none back there there's just none it's you ever put a pair of gloves on you get a nickname i'm tom mccallister that's your fucking name it's tom mccallister not you know boom boom or Dynamite or. I guess they're all just sir. There's no. Yeah, there's no. I don't know if it's like considered untoward over there to give yourself a nickname or what. But I don't know.

December 8th, 1981. 20th Century Sporting Club in South End versus Gary Brooks, who's three and three. That's garbage. Wins by points against Gary Brooks. He's four and oh february 2nd 82 bloomsbury again versus arthur davis he wins by points does terry he's five and oh so he's winning by points if you are you noticing this we're gonna have some good quotes on this in a minute here march 9th 1982 at the town hall and hornsey hornsey hornsey horny with an s uh with it well yeah yeah well i know and an e oh hornsey h-o-r-n-s-e-y oh boy hornsey that's weird i'm feeling hornsey jimmy um versus jerry mcgrath who's eight and oh coming in and um does not finish his career

right now obviously he wins by points does terry and brings him to six and oh so he's doing very well but not not really uh winning he's just winning by points every goddamn time april 5th 82 so he's fighting every month he's very steady in bloomsbury again lloyd christie he fights here steady in bloomsbury again lloyd christie he fights here 24 21 and one career record seems like a lot of work to be 500 it's a lot of getting punched in the face to really not have a lot for 24 21 and one this is getting beat up a lot 46 fights and you're about 500 for nothing fuck man that's rough and you know what happens here? Draw. This is a draw, this fight. So, I mean, you really get nothing. Goes the distance.

So he's 6-0-1, Terry is now. Still no losses, though. August 10, 1982, at The Strand. I don't know what the fuck that is. I don't know if that's like the Peach Pit or what. But he fights Dave Finnegan. Oh, boy. 3-6 coming in.

This time he wins by a tko in round five so the ref stopped the fight but he still didn't knock him out this is just uh you know he was stumbling couldn't couldn't say his abc's hit him enough isn't it right you can't take anymore isn't it don't you think you've you've punched his face enough? At this point, it's just impolite, no? The man's bleeding. He's all bloody. He's all bloody. Look at him.

Isn't he? He's bloody and stumbling, isn't he? Isn't he? So, by the way, we do hope that you find our ignorance charming, as always, with our say overseas episodes i do enjoy it though so he's seven oh and one it's at this point we kind of got to talk about his punching power by the way i need to show you a picture of him in his prime that's his prime that's his prime it's the picture i'll post on social media i'm in sports is that a sash it's a belt that's a championship belt that he wins at one point he's got a little sports is that a sash it's a belt that's a championship belt that

he wins at one point he's got a little a real weak mustache yeah it's like reddish and he he almost looks ashamed the look on his face he almost looks ashamed that he has that belt it's it it what it is is like a mug shot i know i'm not that tough yeah it's a it's a it's an embarrassing mug shot is what it looks like yeah it's not positive well a it's an embarrassing mugshot is what it looks like it's not positive well no shit uh here's one from an interview an interview with him where he uh he's talking about his punching power it's fucking hilarious that guy this is terry marsh talking about he doesn't look like a guy from that picture it's not exactly mike tyson we'll put it that way uh the punching power he says quote i got older got

strong but i still couldn't punch you rarely hear that from a boxer boxer yeah you rarely hear they generally tout their punching ability it's weird i just can't i got nothing in the punching department he says i realized that you can't get far in boxing without a punch and that was quite frustrating oh my god i don't know why but that's like it's like an nba player talking about you know i got older i just couldn't shoot i realized that i couldn't get the ball in the basket yeah an nba player goes further when they can shoot that's just wild it was quite frustrating without a jump shot it's you know here i am, NBA player. So you need to be able to catch to play baseball, it turns out.

So quite frustrating. So I thought, one fight at a time, I was hoping to find my level. He said, the irony is that not being a puncher was probably a blessing in some respects. I worked on my skills and my fitness. Every time I had a fight, i was resigned to go the distance a boxer who can't punch is a good source of humor for me as it as it is like having a footballer who can't kick it is absurd yeah he literally says my skill set's absurd like i'm not good at it actually said absurd absurd it's absurd it is absurd i'm a i'm a basketball player who's short and has a terrible

jumper like i have nothing to offer yet here i am that's what he does in fights i'm a boxer that's better off kicking him yeah he just he just hangs around and wins on points he's just a weird lanky guy he's kind of lanky he's kind of hard to to hit. And he just, I don't know. He gets his shots in and out points you. And you just don't expect it. You think, I'm going to fucking get to this guy eventually and knock him out. And then you just never do. And then the fight's over and he won somehow. And you're like, how did that asshole beat me?

I'm not even hurt. I'm literally making dinner plans right now because I'm going to go out and hang out with my friends. I don't even have a headache. I was really excited about the end of the fight where they raise hands because i was excited about my hand going yeah i figured out my hand there's no way i lost i'm not even breathing hard i rarely feel this good after a fight i want to go again usually feel like she yeah is there another one lined up i can go like it's a ride double header let's go one more. Come on. He said, Jesus Christ. So he said, it is absurd.

So I came. So to come out undefeated and to do it by winning British, European, and world titles is pretty decent. I did all right as an amateur as well, winning British and international honors. Not bad for someone who can't punch. The man's undefeated. He's undefeated. In his career, he'll never lose a fight. Wow. Which is wild. bad for someone who can't punch the man's undefeated he's undefeated he will uh his in his career he'll never lose a fight wow which is wild he'll never lose a fight but he'll also

never knock somebody out so it's pretty fucking i don't think i've ever heard of that before what what is that you see like all the undefeated like world champions and the famous ones are you know your rocky marciano they would knock you out tonsouts. Yeah, a lot of knockouts. It's really weird. He keeps on with it, though. He says that power punching is just, he says, almost like it would be a hindrance for him here. You know what I mean? He says he's actually proud of not being able to punch.

So that makes it harder to be good. Well, my shoulders are all intact today, so that's good news. You know, I got that. I never really, my my knees are good i didn't really put any torque into it my hips and knees feel great i wake up in the morning i feel fantastic he said quote i made the point that i had about 200 fights man and boy i guess he's fighting men and boys you know it means him man and boy but that must have been the school boy. And I never knocked anyone out clean in all those fights. Ever. Ever in 200 fights.

That's wild. Yeah. That is remarkable. Think about that. It's like he cares about his opponent and just doesn't want to hurt him. Yeah. I don't think you're punching right. Who's training this guy?

I get that you have the skills to rock him, you know, like rock them, sock them. You can get out of the way and hit them. But I don't think you're like putting your body into it or something, man. I think slapboxers have accidentally knocked people out. That's what I mean. How do you not even accidentally, you know, just get a real clean punch? Yeah, because sometimes you don't see a punch coming. Look at what Lennox Lewis has seen Rockman.

He just didn't see it coming. Knock Lewis out clean. It's just a freak thing that happens. Sometimes it does. Not once. Somebody who has like a glass jaw or some kind of fucking brain problem where they get tapped and he's got too many concussions or nobody. Like a fainting goat where you scare him and he falls over?

Nothing? And his brain touches his skull and it's a concussion and he goes down in alcohol? Never. Never. It's very fucking weird. He says that, I put one or two down, but it was always more of a slip

or from them having had enough of the punches where they basically just kind of kneeled down like they couldn't defend themselves. They were like, well, I'm tired of getting slapped around a lot. This is annoying. It's not a knockout. It's just overwhelmed.

This is so annoying. Stop. God god such a jerk yeah sometimes you take a knee when there's a bunch of flies swarming jesus they're all up here that's what i do when i'm fighting all the school boys sometimes i gotta just take a knee and throw some elbows for a second get my wits about me yeah that's how it works here you're north and south that's why it was always more of a slip or them having or then yeah you get a guy off balance and you hit him and you knock him over. But he's not out. He just lost his balance. He pops right back up again. I can't imagine.

This is amazing, man. He said, the one time I came close to scoring a knockout was when I fought for the world title versus Joe Lewis. Joe, quote, Lewis Manley. Yeah. Not Lewis. No. For the IBF light welterweight title in 1987. And then I had to hit the guy clean with a short left hook.

He was on his way down and falling like a tree, so I hit him twice. And the writer comes in and says it was actually once a right hand as he was going down on the way down. Well, despite all that he still beat the count so it shows that i just could not punch yeah so even when i knocked a guy out like a falling tree he was back up in fucking six seconds god damn it never mind if you hit him twice yeah he made the point too he said it was funny that he knocked the guy down and he got so excited about it because he didn't know what to do he just he didn't knock anybody down really ever so he literally was just not it wasn't like trained

behavior at that point what to do when you knock somebody down go to your corner so he just didn't know what to do so he like fucking turned he was like oh shit he's down i better go to my corner so he turned and like ran to his corner and like stood there all fucking like a statue he's on home base yeah exactly like okay you can count now because he just wasn't used to doing it either there's a certain casual thing like what i do ref i haven't done this before yeah you hit him you turn off slowly ref comes in to make sure your distance away counts you kind of circle over nope he's just like oh god i go what do i do oh jesus christ he panicked and he said he was fucking embarrassed

about it afterwards because like like, people were making fun of him. Like, Jesus Christ, you look like you were your eyes were like saucers when that guy fell down. You look more fucking surprised than he did. You're like, oh, God, what do I do now? Literally, he's like, I didn't know what to do anymore. I didn't know what to do.

So I ran in the corner and I got I was embarrassing. My corner was making fun of me. Like, slow down, dude. Look like you've been here before so september 7th 1982 at the town hall in hornsey again loves that hornsey he fights robert armstrong yeah esquire yeah so uh he this guy's 1935 and one for his career which is a lot of losses how many 1935 and one that's not arm weak sir almost twice as many man maybe arm strong but jaw weak jaw weak robert glass draw strong why the fuck would you keep fighting i don't know man that's too many stop and ah that's yeah at 20 losses stop there's no there's no excuse there's very few world

champions have 20 losses they're not giving you any fight that's worth anything if you have 20 losses you're just in it for 300 bucks at that point and a little bit of brain damage you're not you're not gonna make the hall of fame no move on go get don't go do day labor or something it's less brain damage you probably get paid the same amount. So he wins by points here. Terry does, again, obviously. He's 8-0-1. October 11, 1982, at the Locarno Ballroom in Bristol, he fights Chris Senegar here, 18-11-2 for his career.

He wins by DQ in this fight. Terry is knocked down and then while he's down, his opponent comes over and continues to pummel him while he's on the ground. You can't do that at all? Yeah, no. Not like on one knee and there's a shot. He literally is like on the ground. The guy's over him

dropping bombs on him and he's fucking covering himself up trying to get up and the ref's got to pull the guy off. Ahead of your time, sir. The UFC's coming out in a few years. No shit. He's like, throw the gloves off. He's going to tackle the guy, start humping his face while he chokes him. You know, bite ears too, sir.

Yeah, what the hell are you doing? So that's pretty intense, actually. He fucking pummeled him. That's a good way to win. I don't know if you pissed him off. I don't know. That had to piss him off. Yeah.

You know how to box. Of course. This guy was 17, 8, and 2 coming into the fight. So he knew that when you knock a guy down, you can't hit him anymore. Sure. So I feel like that he must have really driven him crazy or some shit. So 9-0-1 for Terry. February 19, 1983.

This is, I believe, in France. He fights Didier Kowalski oh boy which looks like Didler Kowalski to me when I look at it quickly it's gotta be Didier right I think it's Didier Kowalski yeah he's 28-9-2 coming into the fight though so he's a formidable opponent

and Terry wins by points 10-0-1 next time he fights is in Town Hall in Cheltenham? I'm sure. Cheltenham. Cheltenham. Cheltenham.

Cheltenham. How do you do that in one fucking syllable? Stop it. Cheltenham. Cheltenham. Pardon? What was that? You just put 11 letters into one syllable.

How did you do that? I get that American English makes no sense. I understand. you do that i get that american english no it makes no sense i understand we have literally right near each other a state called kansas and a state called arkansas that have the same fucking letters in them and are said completely we get it trust us yeah our shit is wrong but at least there's syllables but it's not no oneton. Chutton. You wouldn't turn San Francisco into one syllable. Right. Whereas you guys would.

San Francisco. San Francisco. San Francisco. Huh? San Francisco. Oh, boy. What the fuck are you talking about? Chutton.

Chutton. Where? You ordered me. What now? Yeah. And then they brought it over here in little bits. You go toachusetts and you're like that's not worcester no what the fuck are you talking about it's not worcester stop it throw a

shire on it and it's a sauce that's what it is fucking there's multiple syllables in that word and you have made it to that worcester no not worcester you fucking motherfucker son of a bitch there's a ton of that shit up there too it's all over the place oh because it's all english inspired thanks to the fucking crown and throne god damn it so uh andy thomas here is uh i don't know 8 13 and 1 for his career he loses by tko to terry marsh so that's a bad of a fighter this other guy is not good tko in the fourth 11-0-1 for terry april 26 1983 at the york hall in bethnal green uh he fights vernon van riel van riel yeah that sounds like van ariel yeah you could it's a disease it sounds like the way a british person would say van ariel

venereal disease isn't it it's tingly isn't it it's tingly when i pee once again our ignorance we hope you find it charming you sound smooth and amazing it sounds great when you guys talk. It's just you're not doing them all. You're not doing all the letters and syllables. You created this and none of you speak it. Again, we Americans, we understand.

I get it. I'm from New York. I've heard that accent. Down south, you must go, that's English? I understand. Are you sure about that right yeah there's some words that i've never heard what did you do to our language but you can't say anything because they cram y'all you and all into y'all and you cram chicha so it doesn't

fucking matter it's the same thing that's where they got it from i learned it from you dad i learned it by watching you learn it by watching you ignore vowels and consonants that are there and whole syllables. So I drink so much and punch their wives. We learned it from you. We learned it from you, Dad. So Vernon Van Riel there, he escapes it with, I guess, a little penicillin and goes 12-0-1. Good for him. Next, he is November 3rd at the 20th century thing again he fights lee mckenzie

3 and 0 coming in third 13 11 and 1 for his career again win by points for terry 13 0 and 1 next he is at the yorkshire executive sports club uh-huh boy yeah it's fancy sounds like a lot of fox hunting that sounds like a fight like a ring in a room that only has like 30 seats. Like high leather back big chairs and people watching and betting high stakes on it. And then whoever loses is like murdered and fed to the dogs or the pigs or the guard dogs. And each round they bet more money. Oh, yeah. That's how it works here.

or the guard dogs each round they bet more money oh yeah that's that's how it works here he fights tony sinat who's uh 12 3 and 1 coming in and ends up 12 14 and 2 for his career so he never wins another fight my fuck just loses 11 straight fights and one draw so terry adds to this by a win by points here so 14 0 and 1 for terry oh boy september 19th 84 at the britannia leisure center in a shore ditch which those are two words that are sure is nice and ditch is not why are those two together it's the shore of the ditch shore ditch that's just a concrete slope that sounds like shit um He fights Clinton McKenzie. This guy's a real fighter. He comes into this fight 30 wins, 9 losses.

So that's no joke. That's a bad motherfucker. He finishes his career 36-14-0. And this is a win on points for Terry. And this gets him the British super lightweight title here. He's it. He's it. He's the winner. He is the British super champion title here. He's it. He's it. He's the winner.

He is the British super champion of lightweights. God damn it. Fuck yes. Take that. Yeah. Motherfuckers, I can't break a pane of glass with my goddamn fist if I had a fucking brass knuckles on. But you know what? Right.

Champion boxer. Which it makes sense, though. Couldn't break a pane of glass with a combo. With a combo of brass knuckles. And it makes sense, though, because if any guy could survive, not only survive, but become a champion at fighting without having any of the physical power to do it, they'd have to be like a chess match.

That's how it would have to be. Very strategic. You'd have to set everybody. That's what he's good at apparently in a few moves ahead that's it so he's 15 0 and 1 15 and no one no losses it's wild december 5th 1984 at the alexandra pavilion in muswell hill jesus come on it's probably beautiful too and it sounds like shit i bet it's not i bet it's shit i love it's rainy i love when we say things in england sound beautiful that sounds wonderful and then we'll get our listeners like oh it's the fucking worst shit they'll send us pictures and they're like oh it's that's a terrible area i know it sounds nice but it's not they're hilarious

though because they never take offense right they always think it's great they find our ignorance charming very there's it's funny because no matter what we talk about whatever country it is canada england australia here there everywhere um no matter what like cities we make fun of teams we make fun of nobody ever gets offended by it for some reason on this show except yeah there's one region of the world that gets offended and you know what james is one region of the universe that's i mean it's the world it's i don't know only place we don't know if we're being heard in mars so i can't i'm just gonna stick to earth if they are they are not offended as superstar billy graham said if there's if there's martians on mars I'll beat them in arm wrestling.

That's what I feel like. I don't know, man. One particular place. It's one place. Sensitivity galore. And they brag about being the least sensitive. I was going to say, blah, blah, blah, but why am I holding back punters? No, it's the South. You guys are really, stop being so sensitive.

You're really sensitive. We laugh at ourselves no you don't only if it's something that's not funny maybe but trust us only if it's you saying something about you as people who make fun of a lot of things and then receive the shit for it from people we all we only we're not exaggerating it is 96 only yeah you don't know why'd you say that about the south and blah blah blah it's like why don't you just laugh at it because it's a joke did you hear the thing about england before that right we got a guy going oh that's fucking terrific over in the next thing so what are you doing meanwhile stop being so mad about uh the joke and be more mad

that it's fucking true yeah be mad at why it's funny that's the point why is that funny we need to fix this shit go there look within yeah fucking blame us for your problems amygdala in the mirror where we're from is shit too are you kidding me we live in a desert for summer who the fuck should live here nobody this isn't natural so we find nature every day every day so uh december 5th 84 he fights in muswell hill arthur clark he's 3 16 and 2 for his career arthur clark miserable he gets he doesn't like to be reminded about that no well i don't think he remembers it because he's tko'd in the second round by terry so that's rare i mean terry's really got to get on you for that to happen. So I don't think that guy was a very good fighter, Arthur Clark.

He's 16-0-1 for Terry. January of 85, back at the Britannia Leisure Center, an old shore ditch there. Peter Eubank he fights. Again, that sounds like he's fighting his attorney. He's fighting his accountant. Game show host. Pete, I don't like what you did with this year's taxes. Meet me at the fucking shore ditch and I'm going to whoop you.

I'm giving you a whooping. This fight is stopped in the eighth round. TKO win for Terry. Eubank had a big cut over his right eye, apparently. So, I don't know. That's what stopped it. May 28th, 85lexander pavilion randy mitchum 27 14 and 0 coming in so yeah decent fighter and uh the uh uh sixth round mitchum six oh i just knocked my stuff over yeah you did that's all right we'll keep going

look at here so yeah there we go there's a napkin so sixth round mitchum suffers a cut under his eye and this is stopped so i don't know if terry started putting fucking he's starting putting thumb tacks in his gloves his gloves he's holding penny rolls he's just cutting i don't know if he's figuring out he's twisting him or he's i don't know what the hell he's got a little scratchy thing at the end got a wrist drill yeah maybe oh wrist rocket he's got what he's doing over there i'm fixing shit so uh september 12th 1985 he's at the free trade hall in manchester he fights lee mckenzie who is 13 5 and 0 coming in and uh wins by points he knocks mckenzie down twice well twice i think he probably took a knee twice but knocks him down in the second and the tenth round. So not too bad for old Terry here.

19-0-1. October 24th, 1985. This is in Fontenay. Oh, this is Stade Louis II. So this is France, I think, here somewhere. One word, Stade Louis? No, two words. Oh. So this is France, I think, here or somewhere. Not. One word, Stradley? No, two words. Okay.

He fights Alessandro Schiapacci. All right. Hey, it's Alessandro Schiapacci. Hey. He's got an Italian voice. So as you would pronounce it, Alessandro Staple person. Scarcucky. Scarcucky.

What's his name? Scarpacci. Scarpecci. Alessandro Scarpacci. Scarpecci. 26-3-2 for Alessandro. So he's been eating a mama's pasta. He's going to knock you out.

Yeah. Isn't it? I'm going to knock you out, isn't it? Don't say that there. So he actually, Terry, wins by tko in the sixth round here so styling sure doing well here um his next fight is at muswell hill again and this is the only nicknamed fighter that he fights in his entire career that has a nickname he's the fight he's the fighting fireman yeah so that's okay oh yeah he's the

fight and fire yeah joe quote-unquote lewis oh yeah joe lewis whatever he's talking about but this is uh this is tussock coletta uh t-u-s-i-k-o-l-e-t-a one name one name tussegoleta that's his first name right tussegoleta or as he goes by tex may as well a british guy oh my no i don't think so his last name is uh ninkelatankay okay yeah uh nka what yeah when you see that's not easy when you see n's and k's backed right up against each other like that, and it's not at the end of a word like skank or something. Or tank. Or tank.

Why did I say skank? I don't know. That was crazy. That was pretty intense. I went an entirely... I was like, oh, yeah, tank. And then you said skank. I was like, well, that wasn't...

I could have said Frank. I could have said... Anything. Tom Hanks. I could have said fucking a lot of things but i went with skank for some reason it could have been sunk could have been any sunk there's a shitload of words that end in nk that are not skank i don't know why that's the first that was hilarious oh my god you've got monk jesus man what is wrong with me? Skunk? Did you say that yet? No. I said skank instead of skunk.

I don't know how you get skank over skunk. How did I miss that one? I don't know. So, Tex. I'm just glad you leaned away from spunk. As he goes. Well, that was next. That's all I could think of.

You spunky skank. So, Tex Encalantequete. Yeah. That's a handle right there. And Domican yeah i'm in dom lelouch and sue uh 13 and 6 he is or as the british would say okay yeah fucker no that is one syllable right there james it guy's 25, 10, and 4 for his whole career, so not bad. But it goes the distance, and it's a unanimous decision win for Terry, making him 21-0-1. So he's going. April 12, 1986, at the Palace Lido in Douglas, he fights Francesco Prezioso. A, C, I'm going to fights Francesco Precioso. A. C. I'm a fighter, Francesco

Precioso. I guess speak zero English. It's a Francesco Precioso. Here I am. Punch me in the face and I will fall down on the ground. Hey, Francesco. 13 and 2 he is coming in. 13, 2 and 4. It's a shitload of draws.

How do you have that many draws are you that evenly matched with people two is about the maximum you're allowed right that seems normal but beyond that it's like three is crazy three yeah that's a lot four is like okay ah there's some there's like a judge going around who's being paid who's being paid off i think it's even i watch about the fighters i I watch the whole fight. I got to say, nobody win. Nobody win and nobody lose. Everybody look fine.

Can we say instead of a draw, we say both of them are going to win. How's that? Both of them are going to win. It's very good on the record. I don't want anybody. That's just a guy with a lot of compassion just going, I lost on terrible. I feel so bad.

Yeah. I see a man, Antonio, he works so hard. He showed up. He drank raw egg for this. He trained. He wake up early every morning. He goes to jog around the city. Chasing a chicken.

Hey, here you go. I chase a chicken. And the man, he say, hey, you do this. I go, OK, a punch of the beef. And he goes, he say, hey, you do this. I go, okay, a punch of the beef. You know, and he goes, he hits the, and then he show up. He tries so hard. He put his little shorts on. He had a nice little shirt, very shiny.

He put his name right there under the leg. It looked so nice. He wears mom's bloomers. Oh, he wear his mama bloomer underneath. This is so nice. He wears that. He put a nice shirt, very nice waxed chest for the occasion, you know, so it's very good. He has a Vaseline on, and then he'll fall down.

I feel so bad. I said no. A draw. I said no, we do. It's a draw. Everybody feel good about it yourself. You go home, you eat a nice dinner. Four times of this guy explaining this and they're like we can't

hire him anymore right nice yeah i want him to have a nice glass of wine when he go home a nice you know something you relax with you know your nice lady and they go this is not what we're doing here it's a fucking fight we're judging he goes i feel bad i feel better to judge a people you know i don't want to judge it literally says judge on your shirt you asshole i feel about judging the people and other efforts you know you make a suffer so hard why who am i to judge i grew up a catholic they said don't judge i'm a oh my god i'm a no god you're not a god who am i to do the judge not good well it says you're a judge so still still no just not last year you know no that's not good so uh yeah anyway he fights francesco prezioso and uh he wins by points

22-0-1 may 28th 1986 at the alexandra pavilion again Muswell Hill. This is a very prestigious place, apparently. Somebody, if you live in Muswell Hill. Muzzle. Muzzle. That's both words, by the way. That's what it is. That's Muswell Hill. Yeah.

That's all together. If you live in Muswell, please tell us if it's gross or not, because it sounds terrible. It's got to be. And it's probably beautiful, because it sounds terrible and it's probably beautiful because the ones that sound beautiful are terrible smells like bad oysters he fights Rich Kaiser on this day

he should have at least gone with the Rich the Kaiser Rich the Roll Kaiser I was going to go with Rick Kaiser Roll and I'm like why don't we go with the Kaiser but for boxing it's more threatening with rick kaiser roll yeah and i'm like why don't we go with the kaiser but for for for you know boxing it's more it's more threatening yeah he's you figure so he's 13 5 and 1 coming in and he'll

finish his career 18 17 and 2 and now this fight goes up to the seventh round where terry actually puts together a few punches here and tko's him so not a knockout still but the ref stops the fight it's tko he's had enough isn't it you're all right he's whooping you good now i'm gonna go ahead and call him you stay down sunny boy it's all right the breits are fantastic i got this i'll help you out uh this is uh 23-0-1 for terry so he's fucking this is impressive i mean how many guys are 23 and oh that's if you don't know when crystal pepsi was discontinued what was in al capone's vault or which famous meteorologist is lenny kravitz's second cousin then you haven't spent enough time on wikipedia but that's okay i am here for you.

I'm Darcy Carden, and I'm inviting you to listen to my new podcast, WikiHole from SmartList Media. Discover the craziest rabbit holes on Wikipedia with me and my funny friends as we bring the cyber frontier directly to your tympanic membrane. And if you listen to my podcast,

you'd learn that that's the science-y term for eardrum. We embark on a hyperlink rollercoaster as we start out on a Wikipedia page and go from link to link to link to link, careening through trivia, oddities, and unexpected connections until we collectively shout, how the hell did we get here? Follow WikiHole on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to WikiHole ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Be good shit. January 28th, 1987 at Fairfield Hall in Croydon. Croydon. He fights David Taylor, who finishes his career 1936 and three.

Another guy like that. Why the fuck are you? Damn it. Stop fighting. 50 fights for nothing. Stop it. 50. That's a fucking.

It's almost 60. It's almost 60 fights. 1936 and three. Good for the love of fuck, man. Stop. Don't they have loved ones? They've got to. Right.

That's what I don't understand. Don't you have a wife a girlfriend a boyfriend a father a mother a sister you have a sister that goes please don't invite me to these i can't watch you get your brains beat in anymore i can't do it every time you're like this time could be different it's never different it's never i saw the he wasn't even good and he beat the shit out of you. You have to stop this. I was really worried about that one. It's fucking bad.

Yeah. I could see it. I don't understand. If this was my. Seed family. Friend. Yeah. You were kept doing this to yourself.

I go Jimmy. Dude. You're not good at this. I get that you love it. I get it. But like. I guess we don't tell comedians that though. No.

We want to i i started and people got mad well yeah i started being like why do you do this and they're like what are you talking about and then they're friends and then everybody is then everybody hates me that's though i i was there with you trust me but you're so bad you just want to go around though and if there's a lineup with eight people, you want to go, well, six of you have no business even picking up a microphone. So fuck off. You guys suck.

And then the other two, I mean, you don't put any effort into it or you'd be half decent. You're just naturally a little bit funny. And that guy's OK. That's a fucking lineup. So it's like we're not talking about people who just start and they're no good. A lot of people suck when they first start and they get better. Right. That's great.

Someone like that, you give them advice and you try to help them. We're talking about people who are in comedy literally 10 years, 10, 12, 14 years. God awful. And not only did they not get anywhere in their career, because that's fine. In comedy, especially if you don't move to one of the cities, it's kind of a thing. If you don't move to New York or L.A., it's fine. And comedy, especially if you don't move to one of the cities that it's kind of a thing. If you don't move to New York or L.A., it's hard. But like comedy, your career is secondary. You want it to work.

But are you fucking funny? Right. You know what I'm saying? So is there a reason for this? Yeah. After 10, 12 years, you could be really funny, just not really have cracked it. Someone could see they could take you on the road and you could at least have something going on for yourself where as instead these people were like they would be like people would roll their eyes when they'd show up at an open mic like oh christ i gotta put this guy in the

lineup and they've been doing comedy a dozen but you gotta feel bad for them too at a certain point because it's not that it's not necessarily they don't know that that they're not funny because clubs and places i don't know places give them're not funny because uh clubs are just social places i don't know places give them opportunities based on what they can bring to the club and they don't know the business they don't understand what they're doing for other people that makes them want them around they think that it's them yeah there's no self-awareness zero i'm not well speaking of that one thing but i'm not even talking about clubs i'm talking about when you do like when we first started out and we do like fucking bar shows before we started working clubs even yeah when

we do bar shows and like you were the worst at a fucking bar show that literally anybody could sign up for and you were terrible and you've been doing it for 14 years when you'd see somebody come up that's been doing comedy a month be a hundred times better than you wouldn't you go what am i doing am i doing this why am i doing this but they didn't they it's it's the lack of self-awareness taking effect i think you're right because no it's delusion sometimes sets too at a club not even a club at a bar show you can one guy can have a great set and you're like why did that just happen that guy's awful yeah it'll happen weird and and and they see that and and treat that as their opportunity, too. It's true. One day I could just be great at this.

Maybe it'll work. Well, we witnessed that one day. We witnessed a person think, oh, my God, finally somebody gets it. Okay? This was years ago. Christ, what was this? 2014? 12?

13? Where? The stand-up live. It was like seven years ago, eight years ago eight years ago a long time ago we had to be in 2013 then we were both doing a comedy contest both of us and uh there was this big giant contest that like kind of the clubs were looking for people so it was when they first opened they were looking for people to fucking to work the clubs and they were looking for openers and shit so they're that's the way they did it run a contest and you pick the first top five and you'd get start getting a weekend some people

would bring you know they'd bring a hundred of their friends with them so that shit like that would you'd have a crap comic but they bring a hundred people everybody do great because it's all everybody it's all their people yeah yeah which is funny but you could tell that those laughs one table's laughing you're like that's a problem. That's not going to work. One section is where. Yeah. So there's this one comedian that went up this one night and he he's exactly who we're talking about. We're talking 15 years plus in the game. Yeah. And the worst comedian at every open mic. Yeah.

I'm talking every consistent consistently always the worst. Yeah. And he's trying his hardest. He's not just he's not experimenting he's not doing you know this isn't performance art he's going up telling one-liner dick jokes that are awful and getting silence from people okay we watched him do it i've seen him a hundred times he signs up for this contest like we say why do people do shit like that did you think all it's all going to come together after 15 years? You're finally going to have a good set?

Tonight is the night. The bookers are there. That's what I mean. That's what it was. Oh, I hope I have a good set. The bookers are there. Then what are you going to do with it if you get booked? Bomb for fucking every other time?

So I've seen you do the same eight minutes over and over, and it never works. So he goes out to do his set, and he on stage and it's there's 600 people there. It's a fucking pack 550, a big packed comedy theater, really packed and a hot good crowds. Good to their pumping. The host was good. The that chick member, the hostess. Is it the one from New York? Yes.

Yes. She's really good. I forget her. God, I know her name. She's good. Wendy Starling. Starling. That's it it wendy starling i don't know why i wasn't going to mention her name i'm not saying anything bad about her she's wonderful she's really funny and a nice person and a really good person so it's great wendy uh is the host and she's she's fucking crushing his host too even when somebody dies a little she keeps the energy up like she's

good and she had a good set up front so stand up live has the weirdest stage door in comedy yeah in all the other places we've never seen this before you go around and wrap upstairs and go up at the door and it's right there the door is in the stage there's no like up so you pop out of the like just the backstage wall right you pop out and there you are hi the door opens the state and it's fucking weird the other side of that door is a couch is a couch in a green room and all that shit so it's right on the other side of the stage so somehow for some reason that door has a lock on it which i don't know why and it's a lock that you lock from the inside from the green room right so at what point would you be in the green room and it's positioned an inch above the handle. It's right there.

So you grab the handle. It's one of those light ones, too, that you can hit with your thumb by accident. Tag it with your wrist when you open it. Very important, especially if you don't use that all the time, like people in a contest who don't work there all the time like we were doing. So anyway, this is an issue. The only thing I can think of is a safety precaution. If the crowd was bum-rushing the stage, you go in there and lock the door i guess safe room no windows i suppose that's

the only way it is because then it's got another door with a lock yeah but that's to the main that's the people are there all the way you want that bathroom door that's a lock too so you've got three doors three locks yeah so anyway uh this person who's been doing comedy a long time and isn't any good at it when they came out to do their set wendy introduced this person who's been doing comedy a long time and isn't any good at it when they came out to do their set Wendy introduced this person they came out they must have hit that lock by accident okay because the door closes they get up and it's a big stage

a deep stage so if you're at the front of the stage with the mic behind you is a good six seven I was gonna say it's a good probably ten feet behind you like a basketball worth of to the wall so it's back there you don't like feel the door open right next to you or anything like that you don't even notice it so 600 people this guy's all jacked up he starts telling one joke it doesn't work he tells another quick joke and these are you know one line yeah

it doesn't work it's at that moment that he tells another joke that fucking levels the room i'm talking brah like this reaction to it yeah and the look on his face was he couldn't believe fucking shock yeah he was like and he started like getting like it happened it's all gonna work now like he was reading a winning lottery ticket like it's fun oh my god 36 finally and he told another joke and it's fuck and they were just still rolling from that joke right into that one and he just fucking they're rolling and he you could see the smile on his face. He's like, oh, this is the greatest fucking thing in the world.

Oh, yeah. And then he tells another joke and it's dead silence, just like the first two jokes. He has no idea why. Never. To this day, he has no idea why those two jokes crushed harder than Bill Burr in his peak, yet nothing else has ever worked ever.

And those two jokes have never worked again in any other place before or since. Thank you, Wendy. The reason was poor Wendy was locked out of the fucking green room. So while he's telling a joke, she's jiggling the handle trying to get in and once she realizes it's locked she just turns and goes smiles to the audience and does like a little thing like oh fuck i'm fucked right at the same time as his punchline it was the timing of it that was amazing and he to look on i don't he almost like i'm surprised he didn't die i've never seen someone swell with so much confidence and then it

just go away so fucking fast right now for two jokes and then she ran off to the side and then the people were like okay there's that now what are you saying now you oh yeah you're not funny that's right tell us joke that's right you're not funny i forgot that you suck i forgot how terrible you are i was just reminded when you told me another one of your jokes but it's delusions can we bring the girl back up can we bring her who was locked she's funny can we lock her out God, how terrible you are. I was just reminded when you told me another one of your jokes. But it's delusions. Can we bring the girl back up? Can we bring her who was locked? She's funny.

Can we lock her out again and just have her make I don't know what's going on faces? That was pretty funny. Yeah, you tell Beth, do whatever you want up front here and make her do the jiggle thing. But that's what I mean. Those are those people where you're like, why are you doing this to yourself? There's an emotional toll, but this is a physical toll too not only are you losing in front of everybody and what getting having your fucking family watch you get beat up but then you have to put your head back together right so uh this is uh taylor loses by tko so this guy's so bad that marsh tko's him in the second round with a cut over his left eyebrow.

Okay. I think Terry's starting to put some stank on it. Put some stank on it. He's putting a little twist in the gloves. Eating some spinach. Yeah. So he's 24-0-1 at this point. And this is March 4th, 1987.

He fights. This is a fight fought for a title, the IBF Light World Welterweight title, and it's done inside of a circus tent. Oh, boy. Which is a very strange place to have a prize fight. But at least you get to punch people in there. That's the thing. You normally don't get to do that. So this is the fight against Joe Louis Manley where he thought he knocked him out and he ran to the corner and didn't know what to do with himself.

Fantastic. This is the one here. He's 26-3-1 coming in, Joe Lewis Manley. So I can see he's a good fighter. 29-8-2 for his career, so not too shabby. And this is a 10th round TKO. So I guess even though he ran to the corner, the ref stopped it. 25-0-1 july 1st 1987

royal albert hall hell yeah that's what i'm talking about none of this muswell right circus tent bullshit pierce dick hall fucking royal albert hall bitches yeah this is how old is that place do you uh probably it's got to be as old as Prince Albert, right? I can't, I don't know anything about it, but I can't tell if it's one of those places that's like 500 years old or they built it in like 1920 to look like it's 500 years old. Well, everything's possible today. I feel like it's probably old. I hope so. Because it looks-

Everything over there is old. It looks like a formal dining hall in there or something. It doesn't look like a- It's weird. It's blown apart and they built it back to tried to be uh what it was maybe or is it like madison square garden where madison square garden isn't originally where madison square garden even was oh where was madison square garden now yeah isn't the original madison square garden sometimes square yeah the original madison square garden they knocked it down in the 60s and built up

madison this madison square garden and just called it Madison Square Garden. That was that. Because it's a great area. Yeah, they just called it the same name. Okay. And so, yeah, it's not the original place, though. Where was it? Was it in Manhattan?

Yeah, it was right there. It was a couple blocks away, but it wasn't right. I can't remember exactly where it was, but it wasn't the exact same location. It might have been across the... No, because in Penn... Where the fuck is it now? I don't know where it was. Put it that that way i don't remember where it was exactly i think they share a similar location like maybe part of it got it you know what i'm saying overlapped it maybe i can't remember exactly and it's really gonna bother me forever this isn't it this is not it

so uh this god the place by the way Super Tent, when he fought the tent fight. Now, Royal Albert Hall, on the other hand, he's fighting Akio Kameda, who is, I believe, probably Japanese. Sounds like I'm going to say he's twenty seven, three and oh, coming in. OK, not too shabby. He finishes his career twenty seven, four and oh, because this is his last fight. And Terry beats him with a TKO in the seventh round. You cannot beat Terry. No, he is a bad motherfucker, man. and oh because this is his last fight and terry beats him with a tko in the seventh round you cannot beat terry no he is a bad motherfucker man or or very lucky yeah this is crazy though like

26 oh and one this isn't like 12 fights in 26 fights no one can figure him out okay he doesn't get hit it's so is that what it is because he's pointing it's got to be because he's not dangerous the whole thing in boxing is if you're that the the fear of the knockout punch is what keeps that's what gets you going in and out otherwise you just walk right into people you don't care if you can't knock you out who cares so i don't know how the hell he can how he can do that with i don't no one would be afraid of him they would just walk they would constantly be moving forward on him it would be really hard to fight like that makes sense i wouldn't i wouldn't you know it would be afraid of him they would just walk they would constantly be moving forward on him it would be really hard to fight like that makes sense i wouldn't i wouldn't you know it would be like always fighting mike tyson like in every tyson fight he's the guy going forward and

the other guy's going back and circling and that's how it works he's the he's the aggressor he i don't know how this how you would do that with this guy so uh he's 26 0 and 1 now december 1987 here uh he signs terry does a 250 000 contract for his next title defense really 250 000 in the 70s in 1987 okay which is still great money and for him who's not a heavyweight and not sl not and he's yeah not a big famous guy really not a a flashy guy because no one wants to watch him out point somebody that's a payday so he's got a title but for 250 grand that's a huge fucking payday he's a fireman like that's what he he looks at boxing as his hobby right it's his side job 250 that250,000, that's his pension. That's what I mean. That's great. So, Grace. Let's say Grace on that.

Signing a $250,000 one-fight contract to defend your title. Grace. It's Grace because just a few hours after the ink is on the paper, probably not even dry yet, he retires. What? From boxing. He quit? Well, he's forced to retire because of epilepsy oh no he's got epilepsy

oh fuck and he must retire medically apparently wow so yeah this is a big deal 250 i'm sorry 250 000 pound not a dollar that's like it's even more australia so uh he uh this is just hours before he announces that he has epilepsy and it wasn't like a ceremonial thing and then he was going to retire yeah there everybody was like yeah here's the fight we're talking about this fight he's saying yep can't wait to beat that guy up and then three hours later he's like i am done fighting yeah very fucking weird i just got a phone call and uh i can't fight anymore that's it his manager Frank Warren, the guy we talked about, disclosed that Marsh signed the deal over lunch, and by the

end of the day, there was that. He was done. He said Mr. Warren said that his fighter never told him of the illness. Here, that's the thing. Marsh said that a specialist had diagnosed him with epilepsy about two weeks

ago, and it would mean he would never fight again. So for some reason, he signed a $250,000 contract. So I don't get it. And then he remembered. Yeah, and then Warren here, the Warren said that his fighter never told him of the illness, and he said that he's been unable to contact him since the news broke.

So he's saying, Terry hung me out to dry. He didn't tell me he was sick and then he signed a contract and then he retired so disappeared yeah he put me on the line for all this stuff and then fucking took off he that's that's his story he says that uh um what'd he say i had no idea he was ill i can't understand why an intelligent fellow like terry like terry did not say something about it i shall now inform the ibf that terry marsh is no longer their champion so that's what he's looking at um he says that uh at the same time in addition to him not being able to box he's also not sure if he can fulfill his duty as a

fireman anymore either yeah because if he's trying to rescue someone he can't have a fit and so exactly so it might not be safe so uh that's a question too just gonna see what kind of medication they can give him and see how it works so uh he said quote this is funny people are asking him like well you know getting hit in the head is bad and uh do you have you talked to the british medical association about the uh correlation between you know head injuries punch yeah different things like that he said something very smart and very simple at the same time quote i don't need the british medical association to tell me getting hit on the head can't do me any good like it's obvious motherfuckers yeah he said that shit in the 80s yeah this is 1987 so i don't need them

to tell me getting consistently punched isn't good for your brain it's probably obvious duh right yeah why don't we think that it's okay for our brain i don't know we would never like just punch our fucking heart over and over again and be like i'm sure it's fine but it's because we look at everything else that happens to us that we get injured and it goes away. We don't realize that that shit doesn't regenerate, man. I think it's movies and cartoons and shit. I really do. And we're just dumb. Yeah.

Like in a movie, though, somebody gets hit in the head and then they, where am I? And they get hit in the head again and they're fine. Right. You know what I mean? Like people have this weird like head injury thing. You see the tweet tweets and then it's over. Oh, I have amnesia. But really, you might have just done some serious brain damage and had that kid forget fourth grade that dude just forgot you know a

major like a year in his life there was a man that uh was working on a train track and a bar popped up and hit him in the fucking head it went through his head oh my god and he was jesus yeah it went through his head like in in britain no no where in the head oh right through the frontal lobe. Jesus Christ. And then he never spoke at a reasonable volume ever again. He just screamed and screamed. Fuck.

I bet he did. Fuck this hurts. I had a fucking rod stuck in my fucking forehead. It went clean through and through. So, but if that's, that's where he got hit and he just and he was a mess you're getting punched in that over and over and boxing your frontal lobe that's where your fucking all damage decision everything you're you're uh what's the word i'm volume limiter cognitive thinking that's where your motor skills no no it's it's where you're uh like you're being

able to uh it's where you get impulsive and shit like that. If you damage your frontal lobe, you don't have the same. The frontal lobe carries a ton of things. There's a lot. So you want to stick that out. Because in boxing, you want to stick that out forward. Stick that out far. You really get a hit in the forehead.

It's better than the nose or the mouth or anything. At least you won't bleed. Either way, when your head rattles and it hits your brain, it's not good. It's usually bad. And I get that it's not a controversial thing and it's true so frank warren here the manager the promoter i should say he initially thought the whole thing was nonsense he says he said he thought it was some sort of like thought he didn't know what terry was doing he's like is he doing some sort of publicity thing what kind of publicity it's a weird publicity thing come see the fight a fighter with epilepsy i want to

see him does i heard he has epilepsy i really want to see him just fucking have a twitching fit on the ground when he after he gets punched in the mouth that'll be real entertaining that would be horrible to watch though yeah i'd lose my mind seeing somebody just have a fit on the ground no shit minus being punched it's fucking so weird yeah that's what i mean i don't want to do that to him so uh he's warren says that terry had not given the slightest indication that he would not be able to honor his commitment yeah that's what he says he goes totally hit me out of the blue you know he said he was fine signed it now he's not. This is bullshit.

Terry says it went down a lot differently than that. Terry's got a lot more to say about it. He says, well, he describes Mr. Warren here as a, quote, absolute liar, is Terry's quote about him. He claimed that he was diagnosed with an epileptic as an epileptic in August 87. And a week later he told mr warren he says quote there was a slight pause and then frank said don't worry we'll sort it out and went uh went on about what fights were lined up i don't know if he didn't get it like what that meant i don't know if he just said i i'm an epileptic and he was like all right you know

that's fine yeah or if he was like knew what that meant or did he say like i'm an epileptic and he was like all right you know that's fine yeah or if he was like knew what that meant or did he say like i'm an epileptic which means i'm not can't fight anymore who knows what he's saying here he says though uh he knew he couldn't fight he's like you know i can't fight as an epileptic he knows what things can't fight he says he turned he signed the contract because he wanted mr warren he wanted to cause mr warren as much as embarrassment as possible he said that's why he signed it because he was letting him sign it even though he knew he had epilepsy so he's like good i'll sign it then i'll retire and say i had epilepsy fucking this guy's an idiot why would you make the spectacle though right he says quote i make no

apology for that that's what terry says why is he being addictive frank what's what's happening well he's saying frank's lying and hanging him out to dry yeah basically he said i told him and then he had him he wanted me to sign some contract anyway apparently that was good for his business or whatever even though he knew the fight wouldn't happen he's like so i said fuck it i'll do it and i'll just embarrass him well what does that do for for terry yeah i don't know that That's my question. Is he just mad at Frank Warren for something? I don't get it. I don't get it either.

Where's the beef? I don't know. Is what I'm talking about. Not in an 80s commercial Wendy's way. Who's got a problem with this shit? Anyway, he says he makes no apology. Mid-1988, he wants to make a comeback. Why?

I don't know. It's a year and a half after he retires. He seeks a second medical opinion and tries to have a comeback going on. But he's unsuccessful in doing that. And instead, he registers with the British Boxing Board as a manager and a co-promoter with some other guy. So you can do that. He's going to try to go behind the scenes and at least at least you know have a fucking career out of this whole thing so uh there's a center also the terry marsh uh terry marsh lease leisure center in pizia essex pizia pizza pizza it's in pizza and it's pizza

it's pizza essex over in pizza essex. It was named in his honor. However, I guess there were squabbles between local politicians about this, and they renamed it the Eversley Leisure Center. But there's still a plaque with him saying it's the Terry Marsh Leisure Center there as well. So the sign and the plaque don't match at this place. I don't know so he decides what do you do you've been boxing your whole life right you're pretty good at chess you've been hitting the head a lot um what's the career for you i don't know uh what they all do jimmy stockbroker yeah it's what every retired boxer on our show does right that's what they all do right oh it gets worse oh god you think stockbroker's an asshole profession wait till you hear where he goes from here so um yeah he says that at that point he had had seizures he comes out a little more and he

said that he had seizures and like his family didn't know about it at first and shit like that he was kind of hiding it he's i don't know if he's embarrassed or what but who knows he said quote i was way more interested in keeping my fight career going and the prize money rolling in which makes sense i mean he got bills and you know if you say anything it's you're not going to be able to fight and uh warren said that he was very upset that he never was informed of the epilepsy from what i i don't know if i'm reading this right but from what i understand it seems like uh it seems like terry knew about this and had seizures like way early yeah yeah like way i just didn't tell anybody had to yeah what would happen in the ring as a guy you don't go to the doctor until it's something that's like worrisome yeah i mean what if that happened in the ring you're a boss as a boxer you go to the doctor all the time though like they get i don't know why you wouldn't how did that not get caught by a boxer

that's given like a physical that's what i mean they never caught it i guess that's something you'd have to ask him about and if you haven't had seizures and there's no i don't know what the sign i don't know if there's something in your blood elevated if you're an epileptic i have no idea how that works so 1989 he tries to make another comeback he really wants to get punched in the face real bad he uh this is an appeal to the board and they uphold their earlier decision so then he tries to get a license through the new jersey boxing commission he's gonna go to he's like jersey here new jersey no no not new fucking jersey he's gonna go to atlantic he's gonna go to ac okay yeah that's where he's like fuck it they'll let those idiots do anything you want in jersey i've seen that what happens there and he was

hoping for a match in the united states however in the end they found out about he was an epileptic and even in new jersey you're not allowed to punch an epileptic for money even in new jersey you're like i've been there it looks like it looks like the slums isn't it isn't it i mean in texas they'll punch you you're totally allowed to there it's encouraged i think it's extra credit if you punch an epileptic not in new jersey so um at that point he says he's about done with boxing i think it's it's over um so it's at this point that he publicly he goes on tames television's midweek sports special in january 18 1989 and terry's decides to tell everybody that terry marsh knew all about the epilepsy and he's a fucking liar and all of this shit so this is what he says here.

He said that he told he said he, quote, told everybody who needed to know, which means what's his name? Frank Warren. Frank Warren says just from that, he's suing Terry for libel. Really? Yeah. Yeah. He's definitely going to sue him for libel, saying that he because he's saying for Frank Warrenren he may that's a lot of contract sign and a lot of things going on and he knew that it wasn't going to happen so that's not a real ethical thing to do so uh the executive producer of sport at tames uh said that mr warren had watched mr marsh

being interviewed and immediately threatened to sue him and uh later on, he said he rang, this is the producer, rang Mr. Warren to obtain his permission to broadcast the program. And Mr. Warren told him, quote, I don't care what you do with it. It's up to you, but I'm going to sue Terry Marsh or I will sue Terry Marsh.

So pretty, pretty clear. He told the court that he issued the writ here. He's going to sue him because he wants to put the record straight. He claimed he found out about Terry's condition the same time everybody else did when he read it in the newspaper after the contract was signed that's fucked up that's what he says so it's at this point terry's got his own stuff going on he does a film he's acting now oh boy oh boy well he's not a handsome man okay so uh he has an acting role in the 89 film tank mauling

what tank mauling and has since written and published obviously his autobiography is what it says in imdb tank mauling re-released as beyond soho in the uk and crossfire in america i don't know is a 1989 british thriller film directed by james marcus starring ray winstone okay then the film was released in the usa under double cross and in canada as double intrigue and in uk as beyond soho jesus christ pick a fucking name find one that's not copyrighted somewhere and stick with it just pick a name and go with it that's probably because those are copyrighted somewhere else right it's gotta be they just think it's a better market thing too uh synopsis of it a nightmare of vice and corruption oh not a nightmare of vice and

corruption stretching to the very heart of the police force to the cabinet oh oh not the cabinet i guess where they keep the coffee oh tank is a person oh tank ray winstone yeah oh boy is an investigative reporter in jail bird what what he's a reporter that was in jail he's a jet so he's a criminal investigative reporter those are usually different framed on scant evidence supplied by the london mob and framed and framed by the London mob. Scant evidence, my God. Now, Helen, who's Amanda Donahoe, Donahoe it says, is the sensuous call girl

who offers tank ammunition and retribution. But retaliation is swift and brutal in the guise of Sir Robert Knight, who is Peter Wingard, and his equally lethal lawyer, Duboin, who's Jason Connery. Is he related to Sean in some way, sure?

Probably how he got this. A series of hideous murders follow as the devil protects his own. Do you have any idea what the fuck that means? I don't get it, no. I have no idea. I've heard cops and mob and investigators the devil criminals and the devil prostitute right was there a prostitute yeah she was a call girl

call girl guy named tank yep that's i don't know cops call girls i feel like something's gonna blow up i don't know what's going on here but uh terry plays curly okay and his role so there's that um yeah it's a 5.1 out of imdb out of 10 out of 10 wow not the best somebody liked it apparently i'm not the worst so he says he's bummed out about not boxing anymore really says it's like he did it's like he doesn't exist anymore with ray whitmore yeah but that's not i don't think that's his name no it's ray winstone winstone come on you're in movies with amanda donahoe no you aren't you happy and and peter wingard i've seen him before okay so not the same anymore he says this is uh his whole thing you know what let's i think that let's give them an in their own words, I think. I think he needs one because this is really, he's going to let you know how he feels about a lot of shit here.

So let's give him in their own words, quote, prior to winning the world title, I had been European champion and everything else. Now, I don't send Christmas cards. I don't agree with it. And it's a nice thing because the people who send me Christmas cards cards are sending them because they want to not because they have to but nonetheless when i was in the limelight the amount of cards i used to get was incredible and they came in all sorts of uh they came from all sorts of people in corporate bodies it was amazing lo and behold i come away from it and all the christmas cards stop nobody sends me anything nobody sends me christmas cards anymore isn't that sad oh my god limelight because i rhyme tight it's in limelight because i rhyme tight time to get paid

well wow that's a head of the time lyric like the world tree yeah that's what i mean that's when i blow up the first time so then he says it is really an indication of how things change i've done nothing different but one year and you're running out of display room one year you're running out of display room for them the next year they're gone then you gotta hawk them you got nothing no fucking cards nobody gets me anything he says jesus then he gets a real stretch here you're like i think he's i think he might have been hitting the head one too many times. He says, quote, I can see why people talk about your Holyfields and Mike Tyson's coming back. Why?

Because they make $40 million when they come back. That's why they come back. They go, fuck, I can make generational wealth in one night. I think I'll just do it quick. That and they don't have the brain issues that he does. Or they might and they just don't care. Holyfield's got problems for sure that guy sure i mean that's over for tyson sounds the same as he always did

because he never really gets hit that much holyfield just in headbutting would have destroyed his brain he headbutted his way to brain damage he fucking earned that shit on his own headbutting people constantly like that's what you get dummy so he says uh i can see why people talk about your your holy fields and your mike tyson's coming back because they want the acclaim again financially you often need to come back as well even if you get good paydays as a fighter you have a hell of a lot of years ahead of you in your future and you've got to make that money work down the line and that's the thing that's important too is holy field when he was buying uh you know building 25 million dollar houses and shit i don't think he realized i should probably stop fighting someday and then i'm gonna

have to live on this money right that is a that is a thing that i think constantly and everybody i'm horrified and scared to death of spending a dollar that's how it is a lot of people no idea what what's gonna happen ever and that kind of house but that's like he extends himself for tens of millions of dollars it's fucking crazy and with no guarantee that he's gonna get more fights well i mean he could hurt himself it's not even like oh i can keep fighting for another five years what if he hurts himself what if he fucking which he did yeah so i mean what if your brain doesn't work anymore i mean what if you walk around that house and piss your pants in it every day for us to fuck up something crazy would have to happen i

mean it's not you know otherwise we're we're fine yeah we could i could burn you with acid from head to toe and we could still do the fucking show every week and no one would notice or care you know what i mean yeah it's great so you could be a head sitting on the chair that's why you do this we'll be fine that's why you burn me like this. I burned you. I did it. I did burn him trying to get him. So he says, yeah, you realize it's probably you realize in the long term there probably isn't enough money for you to live on and you have to work.

Then you are stuck because you can only go and do what you have done before. And that's boxing. But now you're older. Yeah, this all makes sense. Yeah, obviously. It's all obvious. and that's boxing but now you're older yeah this all makes sense yeah obviously it's all obvious so uh november the 30th 1989 frank warren who was terry's promoter uh he is getting out of his rolls royce okay his uh it's a rolls royce limo he's getting out of it at a london boxing promotion

here it's a chauffeur driven rolls royce limo and as he gets out of the limo uh a man runs up a masked man comes up and fires two shots into his chest oh 22 luger two shots one just misses the lung jesus frank goes down um he's he's still alive but he's taken to the hospital he's on life support for several days a lot of problems He ends up making a full recovery. But he is shot twice by a masked man in the street. That's horrifying. Yeah. The man is described as a white guy, about 5'10".

Yeah. Regular build. Super British. Gone British. He did that. He said, take that, isn't it? And he walked away. Called him a bellend and ran.

Take that, bellend. Isn take that bellend isn't it he took off that's my favorite insult of all time goes i like that too i like a bellend too that's a funny ass it's a funny insult that is clever as shit it's so fucking funny so uh they said that the uh police said the gunman probably waited in the area for about a half hour beforehand and uh after that a passenger in the car struggled with the gunman who ended up taking off and escaping out of here and like we said warren's on life support the gunman takes off they never catch him they don't catch him from the scene there so he ends up surviving the shooting the detective superintendent at this point said it's impossible to say that at this moment at this moment that there's a definite link with

the boxing scene but we're pursuing a number of avenues including talking to members of the boxing fraternity well if someone just comes up and shoots you and doesn't rob you you can probably assume they didn't like you for some reason that's personal as shit all you do is boxing probably start there i mean they don't know if it's a woman or something some some angry husband or some shit he could be banging a married woman we don't know that's what police works for yeah so basically the business these guys a lot of enemies this guy too he's british don king basically is how he's described so that'll make you some enemies is what I'm getting at. So they said there's a lot of suspects, including a looming libel case between Warren and Marsh.

Still going. Warren was filing a lawsuit for libel against Marsh during this whole thing. This was all ongoing. marsh during this whole thing this was all ongoing and they police believe that marsh may have the strongest personal motive to do this between the bad blood between the two of them and the ongoing litigation here so uh they go and they they question terry and they search his home and they find a box of ammunition yeah which not everybody has over there over here it's like yeah so what so over there they're like why do you have bullets it's a fucking actual thing so uh they he explained that he uh he has bullets

because he used to be a marine okay so you know i like to shoot stuff and i have bullets and things these bullets were not the same caliber as in the attack i believe these were 38 bullets and the 22s were used in the attack so there is that at least but he does have bullets whereas anybody else in the investigation i don't think they came up with anybody else that has a lot of live ammunition with them so um what they do two months after the shooting there's no forensic evidence but based on circumstantial evidence they arrest terry for the for attempted murder, they arrest Terry for attempted murder. Really? They arrest him, attempted murder, and he remains in custody for about 10 months here.

That's a long time. It's a long time. Yeah, he's remanded, and it's attempted murder. He's arrested at Gatwick Airport outside London after flying in from the U.S., where he was watching Nigel Benn's victory in the United States. He gets off the plane and they come and arrest him for attempted murder. So, yeah, they said that,

quote, we have detained a man aged 31 with the connection of the Frank Warren shooting. He comes from Essex and he's been taken to the police station in East London. So there he is.

They question him for more than 32 hours before they file charges that's way over the time of when that's way too long 24 here right here it's once once they hit 8 to 10 they go everything here is going to be useless basically unless he comes out and says i'll show you where the body is anything he says he's going to get thrown out of fucking court they can only hold him for 24 without charges though it depends on the situation because he's not technically oh they did arrest him so he is under arrest but they're questioning him uh well i mean they can charge him they're just questioning him for 32 hours got it so they get him in a room and question him for 32 hours he said here the

general rule of thumb is after about eight hours and you better have been given bathroom breaks and food and water and all that shit after about eight hours most judges are tossing that shit saying it was coerced so maybe a nap yeah maybe a nap so something like that so 32 hours is above and beyond um the the whole thing here he's also charged with possession of ammunition without a firearm certificate oh you gotta have that there uh so 10 months he's in jail he says that he decided to play by the rules of prison life that's what he said he decided to play by the rules of prison life which i don't know how else you're gonna do it he said but when uh regulations would would be fucked with him basically they would fuck with him with certain regulations.

He said, so he began to wage a war of insolence against his jailers. What is that? He's going to be pissy with them. It's going to be a pain in the ass. He said that he would do a clean protest. You know, they do dirty protests, putting shit all over yourself. He, instead, would smear himself in body oil. Smear himself in body oil smear himself in like baby oil and then when they do cell removal ahead of shit he's slippery he'd be super slippery and they couldn't hold on

and the huge son of a bitch bastard just being an asshole not illegal technically it would be a dick yep he says it wasn't it was not just disobedience for the sake of causing trouble. It was a civil disobedience in the face of an unfair system. Yeah. He really likes to make it. He knows how to make an excuse for himself. That's one thing about this guy. He can spin some shit to be like, well, it's not that it's actually this.

So I'm trying to get the guards horny. Yeah. There's also that I oil my baby. It's so hot. You never know. the guards horny yeah there's also that i oil myself it's so hot you never know he says it's a battle of wills with the authorities it happened because they were so-called rules or the law i am not a great advocate of following the law we know and hence why you're on a show called crime in sports so you know that should be like our standard. Everyone on our show, every episode should say, I'm not a great advocate of following

the law. Clearly. For example, I do not go out and burgle someone's house because the law tells me burglary is illegal. I don't burgle houses because I know it is wrong. The law does not guide me. I am guided by my own codes of conduct. Okay.

I'm a good person. I don't need the law yeah what does that tell you though when you're up for shooting somebody who you think has wronged you that just sounds bad to say that yeah that's i get he's saying it about some other context but he's saying that ends justify the means if it's worth it so it's like so if you're saying a guy's a bad guy you could shoot him if he's fucking people over and hurting people. Like, I don't know. Maybe who knows? Uh,

he says though, uh, uh, forever. Um, what was it here? Uh, law does not guide me.

However, for that particular time being banged up as I was for 10 months as well. Speaking of which I was sent to remand by the magistrate. And I think they only have the authority to sentence someone for six months. After that time, it goes to crown court. court there's there is a big anomaly right there the point is that i realized i was there in prison because of the rule set by law and i had to go through what i went through i was initially quite happy to go along with that what the fuck are you talking about he's been hit a lot yeah Yeah. This is like a British.

I was fine with it. It sounds like a scrambled British brain. It's fucking weird. I don't know if it's true, but he says, as it turns out, I was expected to hear adhere to the law without struggle. It's jail. They generally appreciate that. I'm not saying it's, you know, he said when it came to the authorities living up to their part of the bargain and their own rules goddamn double standards i found that

they just ignored the rules completely bastards i automatically thought hang on a moment you want me to abide by your rules so you should abide by your rules any confrontations i i had were all cases where they were not doing their jobs and not adhering to the rules they had laid down. So not my fault. Right. Basically, you're not getting what jail is, is what it is. You're thinking like this isn't boarding school.

Right. Like guards don't go to cells afterwards. As the shift is done, they don't go back to their bunk. No. They go home to a place where they're free yeah because they can do what they want and go like have sex with a woman or a man or whoever they want whoever they choose whoever they choose they're gonna go have sex is the point not being forced into it so frank warren let's talk about his shooting for a second when they asked him

what he remembered about it he said quote it hurt yeah well no shit i'm sure uh it made me jump he said it was a surreal moment it's not something you were expecting to happen i would think not i was just getting out of my car and in barking uh colin mcmillan was fighting there i was just getting out of the car and i heard a bang i thought it was a car backfiring i looked around and i've seen somebody standing there holding a gun. First of all, I thought it was a joke. I was looking around and I thought, what's all this about? What's all this about? What's all this about?

It sounds so British. Someone shot him in the chest twice. And his response was, what's all this about? It's pretty amazing. Oh, my God. That's the mostish fucking thing anybody's ever done or said bang bang what's all this about why am i bleeding from the lung what the fuck i can't catch me breath what is that for oh my god that's amazing uh what's this all about what's oh my god uh oh what's all this about?

I could see him shaking a bit. Then there was a click, and I realized there was another bang, and I felt pain in my side. What had happened, it had gone in my chest, and I was standing at an angle, and thankfully, it went through my lung. I thought it missed his lung. It went through his lung, and I lost half a lung and came out. So he ends up getting a piece of his lung uh fixed up it's surgified a friend of mine a barrister called john buttress he went uh what the hell are you doing and jumped on him so apparently that's what happened and then the

guy got away i didn't realize i suddenly felt this gurgling in my throat and because obviously the blood through my lungs had gotten into my throat yeah you're drowning that's what drowning is he said and then i was losing my breath i went down on one knee and i remember my late uncle bob coming out and my brother robert they were standing over me they were helping and they said get a doctor get a doctor i thought he was saying they were like he was picturing ghosts right i thought he was like my late uncle was i thought i was dead because my late uncle came to help me out. Say, come on, come on, old chap. Come on up to heaven.

Isn't it? But instead it was this. He said, get a doctor, get a doctor. At every show we have doctors in the boxing board of controls. Doctor came out. I remember him saying, have you got a handkerchief? I said, yeah. He said, hold it, hold it on.

At the time, the ambulances were all on strike jesus christ almighty so the next minute they bundled me into the back of a police van what a fucking mess they done like a 16 point turn up the curbs and everything just to turn around with that british siren and they drove me off to the hospital they said uh they asked him do you think it was a case of someone trying to settle a score and he said quote i don't know about a score being settled just a lunatic but at the end of the day i'm here doing what i've always been doing and that's all that matters they asked him a little more do you know who did it and what happened who did it and he said yeah I do now uh I don't know uh I didn't know then but I do now yeah and the guy said you get you get lunatics don't you or he says you get lunatics don't you or that's kind of like his isn't it you get lunatics isn't

it he said the pope got shot Ronald Reagan got. You're not the Pope or Ronald Reagan either. It happens, doesn't it? It just happens. You find a lunatic and actually an incompetent lunatic at that. Very lucky to get away with it. So I guess he's very lucky not to get killed. He said, and even if I knew who it was then and at that time I was in court because I wouldn't want to be openly committing perjury. At that time, I was in court because I wouldn't want to be openly committing perjury.

Had I known who it was then, I still wouldn't have said I have said because rightly or wrongly, that's the way I was brought up. That's how it is. Afterwards, you find out. And obviously, you want to settle things. Obviously, that's in your head. My family, I come from Islington. They're a well-known family in Islington. And I know they wanted to sort things out,

and I just wouldn't go down that road. Bad people. So he's saying, yeah, I guess his family wanted to go find who did it and kill them. He said, for me, that would have been a defeat. My thing was to stay relevant and do what I was trying to do. I had a big problem. I had London Arena at the time. We built it, and it was a massive problem for us. We were just doing a big syndication deal, and the banks had just backed off with it.

I was then fighting on two fronts, fighting for my life and fighting to keep my business going. So Terry goes on trial. The prosecution says that Terry has an overwhelming motive for trying to kill Frank Warren. That's their thing. They say that it would have stopped the libel action, which he would have probably lost. So that was a big deal. The defense argued that the evidence of one witness, Peter Harris, was not conclusive. Harris claimed that Marsh had admitted the shooting when they were both awaiting trial in prison.

So it's a jailhouse confession. So those are not exactly the most reliable. Those are not exactly the most reliable. When you have somebody who says that he told me this and we were the only ones there and now this helps me get out of prison earlier, that happens a lot. There's a lot of guys that if they're a pro in crime, they've done this a lot and they are in for something like that, they don't want a cellmate. They'll do something to get thrown in solitary because they know that this fucking cellmate's going to say that you admit it to him and try to get a lower sentence. So, yeah.

The defense argued that that was bullshit. The judge instructed the jury to approach this evidence with very great caution. Only rely on it if you're totally satisfied he is telling the truth and there's evidence to support the account he's giving. The judge pointed out that there had been no positive identification of March of Marsh as the masked man who shot Warren.

He urged the jury to be careful about the evidence of two witnesses who said the gunman resembled him. As they said, it looked like his frame and his hair or some shit. It was very, very iffy. So also during the trial, the prison confession was used against him as well. So that's all there is there. Now, Marsh did not appear to give evidence. He did not testify on his own behalf here.

So it goes to trial or goes to the jury. They find him not guilty of attempted murder oh boy they didn't have any proof yeah they had no forensics yeah they had two guys who said i think it was him and then one guy you know a prison confession which is take that with what it is i don't know what the what his cellmate was in there for do they have double jeopardy there but i don't think you can no i think once you're acquitted you're acquitted i'm not sure that there might be some but i don't think you can no i think once you're acquitted you're acquitted i'm not sure that there might be some special i don't remember we went over this once before and now it's confusing me so it's confusing the shit out of me now so it wasn't a unanimous verdict of

not guilty you don't need a unanimous verdict so four hours of deliberation they just said not guilty not even unanimously so there was jurors that would have convicted him of attempted murder. Yeah. So his lawyer said that after 10 months in prison, he just wanted to go home. So he goes home. And during the 1990s, he's got problems again. He has he's charged with fraud and deception over receivership of a student grant. This is very weak stuff here.

He's also accused of the illegal removal of a and theft of a wheel clamp for like a parking boot. Yeah. Okay. He's taking those off. Yeah. As far as the grant goes, he assumed that he was entitled to a student grant while taking his M.A. in contemporary political history. His defense was that he had made a harmless mistake there.

So he went to court and the jury said, yes, it was a harmless mistake. It wasn't criminal. You're fine. So the jury returned not guilty after 12 minutes of deliberation on that. So he went, this is ridiculous, isn't it? Right? This is absurd, right? You guys want to go home?

Okay, let's go home now. He jokingly asked them what had taken so long, only to be told that the time had to be spent electing a foreman. So it took them 12 minutes to elect a foreman and find him not guilty. So they knew he was not. That wasn't even a question. So, yeah, he ends up, while awaiting that trial, he studied sociology and politics and graduated from the old University of East London in 1994. 1997, he decides he's going to enter politics. Oh, boy.

That's what I mean. Could you get worse? So he goes into the Labour Party here. We don't know British politics really that well. We don't know British politics really that well, but he starts to go for the 1997 general election, but was forced to withdraw from the contest by the party when he was charged with the fraud and deception and all that sort of shit. So that was a problem. And he says that he was a victim of a political smear and the loan application. he said the loan application only came to light when there was a breach of confidentiality on the part of a local counselor so that's what he said

he said the thing is i had political ambitions but they say is a week they say a week is a long time in politics and for me that was my whole political career i put my head above the parapet and they shot at me so he quit he quit then yeah that one he just said whatever he said i was accused of fraud and deception i found that a little bit irritating as anyone would he said to be accused of fraud and deception as it actually qualifies me for a career in politics or the house of lords at the least so he's making fucking, he's got jokes. Oh, if I'm crooked, then I fit right in, motherfuckers. Hey, ba-da-ba. He's writing and self-publishing his book.

That's when that comes out, 2005. It's called Undefeated. Yeah. He says, in many ways, it was the platinum for my, platinum, the platform for my story. It was a good chance to get my version of events out there. But saying that, I did take it as far as I could go. As I mentioned in the book is uh

it is all about proof not truth so it's not the whole truth but everything that is in there that i that i approve of right now wow he's kind of a dick he said i've not been doing anything on the boxing front i was working promoting this book i've taken the book as far as it can go i've had an uphill struggle with the book i was the publisher the author you name it he self-published it he said the one thing i wasn't was the proofreader which is probably something that you were aware of there wasn't actual problems with the proofreading it was just done sufficiently it just wasn't done sufficiently apparently there's some grammatical errors there's some stuff going on in this book having that said i have had mixed reviews about

it and some focused on the proofreading the reviews because there is some shit there's grammatical errors basically but i'm more of a fighter than a writer so i hope people can forgive me for that yeah he said on the other hand it goes to show you that the book was written by me as opposed to ghost written 99.9 of all other books are written by someone other than the author the mistakes show that it was 100 written by me i'm a dummy i'm a dummy no writer would not know how to write that that badly he says in many ways it was a platform for my story that's what he says he goes back to that so uh 2007 he has some trouble on a train he has a run-in with some rail security people who are

they don't work for the government they're like hired private rail security people on a train in a tube station uh here it leads the guys to attack him and throw him on the ground and fucking rough him up these guys right they rough him up and uh up and he gets beat up a little bit and then he ends up suing them later on. But he says, basically, it was a couple of railway employees or thugs abusing their position. For me, a person in authority abusing their position is like a red rag to a bull. He pisses him off. He pisses him off. I played a passive role throughout the so-called assault, aware that I actually aware that should I actually against the railway company who subsequently capitulated and more importantly apologized for the thugs they were employing at the time the security contractors lost the contract as a result i don't think those sort of people should be dealing with the public anyway now we have a less belligerent railway

security service opposed as opposed to a few years back so he sues the train incident. They claim that his ticket was out of date. They threw him to the ground, roughed him up because his ticket was out of date, they claim. That's strict enforcement. Yeah, they told him he had to buy another or wait for the police, and they told him to wait even longer, I guess,

because the cops were taking forever, and he said, I don't have fucking time for this. I'm walking away, and he went to board the train, and that's when they pulled him off and roughed him up and threw him on the ground and fucked him all up uh so yeah he said they were thugs they pulled me to the floor they held me prisoner the way i was treated by c2c i guess that's the company was diabolical they only apologized last week diabolical that couldn't

have that could have come sooner uh so he said uh yeah basically that um so he said uh and this whole thing he ends up winning a 5 000 you sir may take 5 000 pounds in compensation okay for being beaten up by those people 2009 he sets up a new political party a new a whole party all party what is it called it's called NOTA. N-O-T-A. It's an acronym? That stands for none of the above. Oh, boy. Yeah.

Who the fuck? Isn't that a movie? I think so. Isn't that like a plot of a movie? Well, he's a 2010 candidate on the general election as an independent for the seat in the seat of south basildon and east thurrock okay uh thurrock he changed his name by deed poll to quote none of the above x jesus so that's his nickname i guess none of the above x or the fighting fireman or no tax as a protest against there being no facility to to select none of the above as an option on the paper ballot.

Under UK law, political party cannot call itself none of the above, but the restriction does not apply to candidate names. The party can't call itself that, but he can call himself that. Okay. Well, here's the thing. None of the above is, it's on every ballot because you just don't vote. That's the other thing it's well he wants to show that how much they don't like anybody his chosen surname of x was on purpose also meant that he would likely be the last entry on the ballot paper and he didn't want to win got it

he said that if he won he would not take his seat so he received 125 votes placing last out of six candidates so not good 125 is not bad that's that's not bad uh yeah um let's see here 2011 libel action against him i get a lot of libel going back and forth over there uh apparently frank warren has decided it's time to sue him over that 1989 interview really that he said yeah so he's finally suing him for it but he's suing him for it yeah libel against him they uh uh for the whole thing for what he said on tv uh the jury goes in two and a half hours the jury agreed by a 10 to 1 majority that uh mr warren gave tames television permission to broadcast the interview which he which said when we said that libelous shit when they asked him your mind if we air it he said i don't care

what you're gonna do i'm suing him anyway that meant that he was giving permission for them to air that shit and he didn't think it was libelous is what the court decides so you can go fuck yourself at that point the jury decided that the uh words were defamatory but they couldn't agree on whether they were true or not. So if they were true, it's really shitty. But if they're true, they're true. So they couldn't decide if Frank did know about the epilepsy. So if it's true, then he could say it. So they were like, yeah, it's shitty, but it might be true.

Right. Then it couldn't be decided whether it was or not. So anyway, Mr. Warrenren now he has to pay ten a hundred thousand pounds in legal costs holy shit first that's the thing if you sue for libel and don't win you're you got a lot of money you got to shell out that's horrible so that's how it should be if you're gonna sue someone for libel you better be fucking sure of it yeah you just sue people for libel otherwise you get people left and right you could file lawsuits all over the place um he successfully sued two newspaper

uh two newspapers over the similar allegations and won a hundred thousand pounds and now they're going to want that back so uh he said he would consider appealing against the verdict he said it's obviously the jury said it decided it was defamatory they just couldn't decide who was telling the truth terry said that he denied libel and described the verdict as a complete vindication. Said, having cleared my past, I can now look forward to the future. He, uh, 2013, is looking forward to getting,

he can look forward to being fired from his job. He is fired, uh, as a, uh, as for a city job for whistleblowing, they said. What the fuck? They must have said something. He was ousted for telling bosses about excessive risks his firm were taking. He cleared a bid. They're talking about that.

What was it? He was made redundant in 2012, November, six months after voicing concerns at a London investment firm, Tam Asset Management. investment firm uh tam asset management uh but director len oram said terry lost his job due to a reduced workload claiming at times quote he was doing nothing so it must be great right 2014 he starts doing something else you'll never guess what it is ah porn no i was close how about chess boxing yep wait what isn't that boxing isn't that a wu-tang song yes it is chess box i'm gonna give it to you with no trivia right yes um 2014 chess boxing describe it a hybrid sport that combines two traditional pastimes chess and boxing what do you get to punch each other when you take a rook?

When you conquer the knight, you get to blast him in the mouth? You fucking move your bishop, take that queen, and then I get to pop you one. Pow! Two pops for a queen, one for a pawn. So the basic idea is to combine the number one thinking sport with the number one sport that scrambles your brain and see how that works. Right, so you can keep thinking. They go round round okay you fight you chess you fight you so you gotta try to figure out chess moves with a head full of fucking punches so uh it's they got like a board on the side of the ring in the ring in the ring it's i'll show you a picture here i can't imagine so it's

particularly popular in germany ind, and Russia, of course. It is first coined, the term chess boxing, first coined in the Kung Fu movie, Mystery of Chess Boxing, which is why they called the Wu-Tang song Mystery of Chess Boxing. And, yeah, it became a big thing. Wow, that's wild. Opponents fight in the comic book version. Opponents fight an entire boxing match and then face each other in chess. That's how it works.

Here, finding this impractical, they thought it'd be better to have alternating rounds of chess and boxing, which is fucking. Do you ever get to the end of the game? Well, here we go. Chess boxing match can end by any of the following. Victory by knockout or technical knockout in boxing victory by checkmate in chess oh that's fantastic he could be whooping your ass in boxing but then the round starts and you can knock his ass out and then he doesn't matter how good a chess he is or vice versa um let's see lost due to exceeding the chess game's time control

nine minutes with no increment okay victory due to disqualification of their opponent by the referee due to inactivity due to overextended playing time chess or boxing rounds following multiple warnings whoa lost by resignation if they quit uh in the case that neither of the chess boxers wins in regulation time, and the chess game ends in a draw. The fighter who's ahead on boxing points wins the overall. I love this. This is wild. In the case, oh boy, in the case the scoreboard is also tied, the fighter that used the black chess pieces will be named the winner.

Oh, I don't like that at all. Due to the first move advantage in chess. I don't like that at all. This has not occurred yet in practice. Okay. You have to be tied for everything. Yeah. I don't like that at all. This has not occurred yet in practice. You have to be tied for everything. Here is Terry. Oh, my God. That's what they're doing.

Look at this, bro. How old is that man? He's born in 58. His chest, James, looks 70. Yeah, he's 60, but he's still got cut in it, though. Wow. He's in his 60s. That is intense.

Shirtless playing chess. Playing with with wraps on his hands and headphones on, I guess, for concentration because people are talking and yelling. There's people watching this. This is unbelievable. It's fucking crazy. I want to watch it. So Terry and chess boxing faces a 28 year old Italian Filippo Gubini, who has more than 50 bouts under his belt in his first one.

Chess? Chess boxing. He says, to be perfectly honest, I'm expecting to get bashed up and I will be relying on my chest to pull me through, is what Terry said. That is the fascination of it, really. There's a hell of a lot of tactics involved. You can be strong on chess and weak on boxing, or vice versa. I've always played chess and I've always boxed. It was really just training for the sake of box of training there was no target uh it occurred to me that chess boxing would be

something i could aim for he has a fiancee at this point debbie dorling and um whose ex-husband or husband at the time was killed in a cycling she killed cycling uh in 2011 Jesus Christ. Why'd they put that in the article? That's depressing. She used to be married. I was murdered by a car. Anyway. Isn't it? Anyway.

Anyway, he took a taxi up the ass. He doesn't want to take advantage of the fact that he's a world-class boxer. He would rather win on the chessboard, is what she said. Terry was world-class. Tim Wolgar, chief executor of London Chess Boxing, said Terry was chess champion at the age of 12. He's always maintained a strong interest in playing chess. So there's that. Then he won the World Chess Boxing Association welterweight title against Daimar Agassarian from Armenia.

So he's very excited yeah he's imagine him polishing on his mantle yeah the trophy look at me i hit or chest that guy better this is amazing in his 60s in his 60s really weird shit and the strangest thing about it is he's sitting there and uh you know he's polishing he's very proud and he gets an unexpected knock on the door he's like who the hell is this now what the hell's going on maybe they want to see my trophy yeah he opens the door and it's vince mcmahon ceo of the wwe and he says How is it you've come to arrive here? My God, look at you. Yeah, I don't understand it.

My guys, they get hit in the head a couple of times. They sue me. They don't know what to do. They take somas and they fall asleep in their dinner. That's fine. You want to be in politics, though. That's what I'm interested in. Let me ask you a question.

How do you feel about independent contractor status that's the only question i have of whether i'll put my monetary support behind you how do you feel about that the no party party by the way why don't you take your shirt off in just a minute here let me show you show me what won me that trophy big guy let's do it i mean i'm sorry i got i gotta i gotta go poof you know poof of 1099s, he's gone. Vince got too excited. You're not going to be impressed when he takes that shirt off. It's shit. He wants to know.

2015, more politics. Oh, boy. He received 253 votes this time and was 6 out of 7. And they did no electioneering, no campaigning at all. And doubled his votes. Doubled his votes. He's growing. May 4th, he is physically prevented from leaving a polling station related to a county election by the presiding officer.

Marsh was taking his ballot paper with him rather than vote for any of the candidates available. He just took the ballot and was leaving you can't do that well having been detained against his will they hold him and told him he couldn't do that he need the presiding officer in the ball oh jesus come on terry what kind of dick move is that and uh in order to escape and was charged with two offenses uh fraudulent removal of a ballot paper from a polling station and assault battery yeah so yeah he's uh up until this point you feel bad for him and then you're like almost feel bad but then he's kicking fucking dudes in the groin or trying to do

their fucking job poll worker volunteers yeah you're kneeing him in the fucking groin you nutcase that just sounds wrong i mean at that point i don't feel bad for him as much. Not nearly as bad as I feel for these people, Jimmy. The other Terry Marshes out there, because there's a lot of them. Terry Marsh, EVP, Executive Vice President of Sales and Marketing at Chris X in San Diego. Terry Marsh, Senior Vice President of Business Development at Partner Broad Street in New York City. Could be a gal. Could be a gal. Who knows?

Terry Marsh, Department Specialist at Grocery Store Albertsons. Oh, boy. In Black Canyon City, Arizona. Oh, Jesus. You poor bastard. I feel bad for you no matter what your fucking name is. Terry Marsh, Marketing and Business development executive creating value and differentiation. What?

I don't know what the fuck that is. That's bullshit. That person is swindling. You're full of shit. You have no product to sell. Nope. And Terry Marsh, owner of the law offices of T.L. Marsh in Chesterfield, Virginia. He's always a lawyer. Always.

He goes on trial for the groin kicking. Let's see. The first charges drop, the ballot one, and it's for the groin kicking yeah um let's see the first charges drop the ballot one and it's just the groin kicking uh apparently it's not unlawful to take your vote home they've decided i don't know i suppose he said in the past i've always just told them to call the police if they think taking it is illegal and they usually just let me go but on this occasion i was in a rush because i had a hospital appointment i went there there to get my ballot paper, still didn't want to vote for anyone, so went to leave, and it caused this cacophony of shouting. Why did you go if you weren't going to vote anyway?

That's what I just to take the ballot. He said, I used unreasonable force to extract myself from a technical assault after just trying to exercise my democratic right taking the paper home is the only true way to protest the vote as spoiling it just counts as uncertain because i was a boxer a punch could have been seen as excessive so any thing to the groin is probably excessive he said he was able to get up and chase me out to my car like he wasn't hurt that bad he got up and chased me when i ran away he said though uh his defense of self-defense was rejected by the court they said that he was entitled to use self-defense but not to kick somebody in the balls for it or knee somebody in the groin he lost an appeal here and is ordered to pay a 600 pound

fine 100 pound compensation and 620 pounds of prosecution costs and a $60 victim surcharge. 1,380 pounds, I guess here due to an assault. He says, I'm disappointed it didn't go my way, but there's a bigger picture. I've actually been able to prove that you're able to take your paper ballot home. I was initially charged with electoral fraud, but they had to drop it because it's not an offense to take home take it home so i respect it as a small victory the judge told me i should have called the police when i was being held against my will the point is the court recognized i was being detained unlawfully he's such a he's really a

he's really got a lot of talking going on here he said um that he was also disappointed they dropped the election charge fraud thing because he wanted to open court he wanted to fight the whole system and blah blah blah so there he is he does say quote uh i'll also be pursuing pursuing basildon counsel for unlawful detention it's just halftime and i'm down one nil or i'm down yeah i'm down one i'm one nil down that's what he says you are you are one crime and sports down that's that is terry marsh can't get enough well fucking vote for him he doesn't want you to but vote for him anyway i am shocked that he's in politics right and he and he's like he's being a dick about it oh yeah like shocking yeah that's that's

why get into politics that's i don't get it people have been doing it for fuck i don't get it that's the thing now so uh yeah vote for him it'll really piss him off so there you go hold on to him make him do something yeah anything here so uh that is terry marsh everybody and uh we love a good british story and uh that's always fun and brain damage British stories brain damage British chess playing boxers or we haven't got that one before so that's a new one so if you enjoyed that

I know what you can do I have an idea why don't you get over on Apple podcast and give us five stars it helps a lot we don't know why but it helps drive us up the charts also head over to shut up and give me murder.com right now for everything crime and sports and small town murder all your merchandise is there and listen to small town

murder if you haven't what are you doing if you like this show that's got all sorts of murder you're gonna love it trust me so listen to small town murder also listen to ps i hate this movie because i'm forced to watch all the twilights so fucking help me out there jesus christ do that follow us on social media at crime and sports on twitter and facebook at small town murder on instagram while you're at it why don't you get on patreon because we have so much good stuff on patreon if you you'd sign up for patreon by the way at the five dollar or above level you get access to both shows patreon everything the whole back catalog of them everything this week upcoming we had last week we had the uh whatever two weeks ago we had the goodfellas the mafia shit and then this week we are going to have uh we're going to have uh uh

the worst or next episode right the worst wrestling characters ever that we can possibly find i'm going to show jimmy pictures and he's going to shit that these people existed so uh the the zebra kid made me think of that with that weird there's some mormon gimmick too that was weird we got to do something like that so we are going to do that for the next patreon episode and uh lots of stuff there you can get it all at patreon.com slash crime and sports patreon.com slash crime and sports right and jimmy will read your name at the end of the show because you're a producer damn it so you deserve to have your name mispronounced horribly yeah also you can get your name mispronounced horribly if you go over to paypal and use our email address crime and sports at gmail.com to make a one-time donation

and uh that's just for good karma and to be a producer and god damn it we fucking appreciate it thank you so much honestly thank you for everything um we put as much effort as we can into the show so to just know that you guys appreciate it we just thank you guys a million percent thank you so jimmy now that we've thanked them let's let's read through the list of people that deserve thank you the most wonderful people in the world hit me with them jimmy this week's executive producers are uh jordan bennett brian harbour donated two ways thank you so much brian that requires an explanation yeah probably i'm on the phone everybody uh it's a long long story yeah guys are probably like why would jimmy be at the studio and i'm on the phone it's such a long

explanation that we don't have time for it during we'll get to it later we'll get to it later there's a reason why I am in a remote location

yeah it doesn't matter Jimmy has the shout out so I want to come and damn it I don't care where I am I'm on the fucking moon we'll figure it out

I want the people right the rest of the people executives this week are Joshua West, Natasha Patel, Sabrina Jones, Susanna Platt, Abby Artley, Amanda Jacobs, Jason Fuller. Sean Banner died, man. Oh, man. By the way, yes.

RIP Sean Banner. I'm furious. Just front-brushing. One of our story of Sean on Twitter and one of our original listeners. Yeah. And, man, we really, that kills us. We met him multiple times at live shows. What a guy.

What a nice guy and we really, really liked him. And anybody who met him, you guys, if you met him at live shows or whatever, just to let you know that he passed away. An enormous personality. Just a sweetheart. What a heart of a man. He really was. What a great dude. I'm going to miss him terrible. What a heart of a man. He really was.

What a great dude. I'm going to miss him terrible. He's a teddy bear of a guy. Truly. Absolutely. Emily Roberts. Clay Thorson. Again, Clay is a goddamn hero.

Thank you so much, Clay. Thank you. Edward Lee. Sherlyn Hyde. George Nyman. Sean Galloway. Marie Cephas. Lisa Williams.

Sepulveda of the Allison variety Fern and Irma No last names for either Andrew McClain, KG and Tristan Whelan Thank you guys so much Truly you're fucking amazing Happy birthday this week Kelly Danilovich and also Mackie Both of them have birthdays

Say again Happy birthday To you My phone connection is awful And you just said Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. My phone connection is awful. And he just said, happy birthday. Happy birthday. That's terrible. Going on, other producers this week are Ashley Viot, Steve Schnell, April Penley, Sarah DeLeon, Peyton Meadows, Brendan Ables, Joshua Francour, Rabbi Shmulalovich, Zach Bunea, James Martyr, Reagan Shulkley, Justin Zagorski, Cliff Martz,

Happy Birthday Leslie Henderson, Janice Hill, Tim Holland, Carol Braun, Judd Spisdy, Georgia Metal Alliance, Howie Feltersnatch, Mariah Rasper, Milan Moore, Rachel Toko, Cindy Wilkin. Happy birthday, Thomas DeMello. Happy birthday. There's also Dominic DiCoco and Marcos Garlami. That's the guys from Inglourious Bastards. Danelle Randall, welcome home, Mark Tuan. Lisface, Lisface, Lisfacy. Lisface.

Katie Miller, Marcus Garfunkel. TJ Mac's birthday was last week. Happy birthday, TJ. Amanda Lupus. Happy birthday, TJ. Scott Souza, Bradley James Ward. Delaney Robert, Jacqueline Brown. Greg Rickendoller, Andrew Anderson.

Kristen Schulman, Jack Yacklin, Jake Frazier. Nope, that's Jack Frazier. Andrew Heller, Peter Hanshaw, Joshua Hazelman, Julia Larson, Johnston Davis, Kevin Nesgoda, Jimmy Noodle Legs, Haywood Jablomi, Danielle... We're all coming to the woodwork today. I know. Suck your snatch, Jablomi's here. Good Lord. If Ben Dover comes to the party, we're going to have a fucking... It's over, man. Daniel Vescalani, Lane Plauch,

Judy Anderson, Christina Baltes, Wade Steinpreis, Ronan D., Marcus Evans, Dana Brown, Ashley Livingston, Shalon,

Shaylin, Austin Jensen, Nathan Tipton, Danielle Bichinaall Leonard, Luke Delmedico. What? Delmedico. Christine Ruxton, like the teddy. Oh, that was Ruxpin. Brandon Vernoy, Carrie Clardy, Golden State Theater, Jenny Hendrickson, Karen Morris, Jordan Krim, Boss, Mark Latiolias. I'm just going to go real slow.

Josh Topp. Jen Lechazy. Kaylee Jenkins. Nathan Wright. Melanie Curtis. JB9552. Jack Farrell. Joanna Bockhammer.

Strong Arm Tactics. Chris the Great Ben White Christina Stunkard Evania Cabrera Jeremy Lupe Chloe Hammonds Brie Alabama

Zach Cowan Sheldon Stewart Helena Souza Whitney Pope Sarah Grupe Brandon Moe Rochelle Largent Jackie McDonald

Lyle Harrington Eric Tycote What else do we got here? Kristen Hansen Brandon Moe, Rochelle Largent, Jackie McDonald, Lyle Harrington, Eric Tycote. What else do we got here? Kristen Hansen, Sammy Mazzoli. Two fingers, James. Scroll like the wind, Jim. Chris Oster, Eric, and then also Eric Lovin, Keith Gillenwater, Tiffany O'Grady, Shelby Gallagher, Lauren Delagardelli.

Delagardelli, Aaron with no last name, Cody Renau, Victor Valente, Spencer Battersby, Jenna Nairn, Nathaniel Higgers, Alex Wilson, Tim Foley, Araz Zenjin, Don Walter, Julian Parney, James Calvert, Teresa Big, Joe G, Brendan Hine. Hit him with the Hine. Kenny Cray, Laureen Gale-Smith, Aaron Reichenbaugh. Oh, boy, is that German. Harrison Boone, Nicole Powers, Chukies75, Cliff Paquette. We met Cliff in fucking Boston, I think. That guy's awesome. Christine with no last name.

V. Moore, Jasper, Brooke Howard, Shelly Harrell, Darby, and Jason, no last names. Carson Murdoch, Kelsey W., Amanda Bose, Big Ben, Emma Lenore Garza, Braden Kukendall, Alicia Andrews, Melissa Pasola, Corey James Hode, Swest, Rochelle Amore, Kenny Johnson, Fruze with no last name, Benjamin Williams, Cody with no last name, Chris Clary, Ryan Crichton, Derek Orr, Jonathan Vasquez, Lisa Fletcher, Stacey H., Stephanie Fuchihashi. He's on a roll. Yeah, Derek has... Fuchihashi. He's on a roll. Yeah, Derek. Fuchihashi coming out like nobody's business. Derek Elizondo, Matt Easy Reader Parker.

Was that Matt? It is. Megan Halstead, Bianca Gambles, Chris Shear, Melanie Eide, Kristen Bradley, Scott Works, Alicia Novke, Flora Sorrell, Mike Banning, Shelly with no last name, Jason Brinkman, Scott Works, Alicia Novke, Flora Sorrell, Mike Banning, Shelly with no last name, Jason Brinkman, Chad Thompson, Dustin with no last name, Benjamin Pearson, Andrew Soudin, Chris McDaniel, Mallory Maynard, Jonathan

Winter, Robin Ladwig, Laura McCune, Brittany with no last name, Alexis Terrell, Mandy Olson, Shani Arguella, Shannon Argueda. What? No. Oh, you know what it is? Terrell Terrell, Mandy Olsen, Shani Arguella, Shannon Arguella. What? No.

Oh, you know what it is? It's God damn it. That was my phone. Arguetta. Jay Sparks, Derek Heflin, Amy Driscoll, Zach Painter, Marquise Munson, Bob Richmond, Michael Gonzalez, James. Nope, that's Kyle, James Parbell, Mark Samples, Amanda with no last name, Cortland Fiero, Isabel Kitkin, Nora McIntosh, Callie Leo Leos, Lucille the Drag Queen, Kia with no last name, Carrie Backey Hanson, Morgan Smith, Allie Rose, that is, Josh Roy, Sue Paco, Ashley McKeever, Sam Simmers, Jake Frent, Marilyn Rogers, Sam and Rachel

Christofferson. Yes. It's hard to say Christofferson. God damn it. I can't have interruptions right now. I'm not turning you off, James. I'm hitting the fucking sound off. There we go.

I can turn that off and you're still there, right? Yeah. We're good. All right. Michael Papa. Yes. Michael Papa. Yes. Michael Papa. Sam and Rachel Christofferson.

Michael Papa. Gary Eubank. I'm going to get past those two names. Madison Poletsky. Chris Larkins. Yes. Maria with no last name. Jack Griffin.

Shane Spigner. Sarah Bruneski. Randy Diaz. Holly Catherine Jackson. Jennifer Luehengrith. Bobby Torner. Tournier. Tournier. Vigner, Sarah Bruneski, Randy Diaz, Holly Catherine Jackson, Jennifer Luengreth, Bobby Tornier, Erica Martinez, Jason Williams, Alexandria Ketchpa, what did you say? Tornier. Yeah, I think that's right.

Matt A., Kimberly Cooey, Ben Merrill, Dustin Cochin, Ruben Lee, Raquiero, never going to get it. Kimberly Cooey, Ben Merrill, Dustin Cochin, Ruben Lee Racchiero. Never going to get it. Tracy Vaughn, Eric Grisham, Wynn with no last name, Jed Lynch, Jacob Tietke, Heather with no last name, Fritz with no last name, Regina Beth Cole, Eric Paulson, Cody Jaggers, Christian Parrish, TheLionKing34, Ray Harbin, James Wierich, Kate Hawkins, Colin Walker, Marvin Masubo, Mike Clues, Elizabeth Harrell, Amy Lee, Nicholas Myers, Danae Lynn, Miguel Robles, Two Brothers Lawn Service, Like Vern Troyer. Steven Smith, Dissociated Podcast. Lindy with no last name.

Justin Goetz, Rita. Valid Jarvie. Oh, yeah, that's my last name. Chris Stancil, Megan Cope, Vanessa Fuentes-Spradley, Ryan Grillo, Natasha Zarr, Louise, Victoria Stille, Katie Witherington, Justin Roth, Dara Omeng, Amanda Gall, Daniel Tavernet, WorkHors, Chris Nova, Melissa Knight, Amom Solis, Paul Carper, Music Lost in Thought, Lee Ashburn, Brian Verblau, Leslie Goodwin, Mackenzie Whalen, Shadon Smith, Laura Flan, Lou with no last name. I hope it's that teacher that I had. Lou, Tracy Becker, Barry Sanderson, Christina with no last name, Tedder with no last name, David Drescher, like Fran, Victoria Peregrin, Kay Fletch, Kimberly Ledford, Sam Coakley, Christina D'Ambra, Jennifer Mentor, Nathan Balfry, Shannon Schaefer, Sandy with no last name, Aaliyah Ziminez, Rick, nope, that's Nick, Rose Tower, Marsha Big, Matt Giambruno,

Justin Judd, Honey Helms, Matthew Martin, Michael Stewart, Matt Shifflett, Cody Cochran. That's a tough one. Amanda Jacobs, Jed Greig, Amy McFarland, Lucy End, Laura LaCour, John Oaksendall, Melissa Khaleesi, Cartwright Derzinski, Dispelbound? I don't don't know oh somebody didn't leave a name at all oh you know what it was it was it was all chinese letters and i'm not going

to try to read those because so so that's part of their email dispel bound michelle hayes i did a creative right uh karen harris samuel moffett heidi wilson justin scott kyle goynette alicia Karen Harris, Samuel Moffitt, Heidi Wilson, Justin Scott, Kyle Gwinnett, Alicia Borjali, Gaia Oliver, Grant with no last name, Dan Lennigan, Latasha Boxley, French Toast Mashed Potatoes, that's disgusting, what the fuck, Bethany Gravel, Tanner Winnocki, Bobby Grand, Gravel, Tanner Winnocki, Bobby Grand, Melano Barrow, Darius A., Nikki Sinfield, Amanda Zilnicki, Don Murray, Libby Baxter, Shannon Baxter, Jason Lewis, Kayla Kruski, Nicholas. Nicholas? That's the new Pavel there, Nicholas.

Nicholas Vabra. Nicolus is a very exotic man. Hey, Nick. No, no, it's Nicolus. It's a matter of time. Don't call me Nick. Caitlin Stevenson, Sergeant Brannon, Bill Pagano, Josef, and Bianca Bryantjun, and Big Saint to you and all of our patrons. You guys are truly amazing.

Thank you so much. We went out of our way for you, goddammit, because you guys mean something to us, and we want to make sure that we acknowledge it. And thank you so, so much. Thank you, everybody, so much. Honestly, we appreciate it more than you could possibly know. What if people wanted to appreciate you, Jimmy? Where could they possibly get that?

I'm on the internet. You guys can find me there, at WismanSucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N sucks, on Twitter and Instagram. Thank you so much, really, for supporting what we're doing. Yeah.

It's been a fun year, despite how awful it was. It's been interesting. I'll say that much. It's been eventful. Where can they tell you about their year? Just find me. If you've got a bat signal type thing, I prefer that in the sky or something or you can just follow me on my

yeah it's the cannoli bat signal just a pile of ravioli or you can just follow me at jimmy p is funny and do it like that you know how to find people on the goddamn internet so that said british brain damn british brain damage chess champion boxers aside. Yeah. Weird shit. And thank you so much for joining us. So nice to have you. It's so nice to have you. And live from the Crime and Sports studios, we will see you next week. Bye.

Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Crime and Sports early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.