Crime Junkie - CJ SPIRAL: Mica Miller

Episode Date: August 29, 2026

Come spiral with us as we recap the biggest true-crime documentary right now, "Death of the Pastor's Wife." The takes are hot, the eyes will roll, and Ashley and Brit will be trauma bonding as they reach back into their churchy upbringing to decode some unhinged religious takes. And of course, Ashley is coming with a bunch of information you won't get in the documentary that might help make sense of how Mica Miller ended up at Lumber River State Park in North Carolina on April 27, 2024.  Mica’s Law  To learn more about Mica’s Law, please visit passmicaslaw.net National Domestic Violence Hotline If you or anyone you know is experiencing domestic violence, you can reach out to the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-SAFE. Support with Religious Trauma If you or someone you know needs support in dealing with religious trauma, Reclamation Collective can help. You can find out more about resources on their website, www.reclamationcollective.com.  Head over to our Crime Junkie YouTube channel to WATCH this episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH4Ew0wcnSQ  Source materials for this episode cannot be listed here due to character limitations. For a full list of sources, please visit:  https://crimejunkiepodcast.com/cj-spiral-mica-miller    Did you know you can listen to this episode ad-free? Join the Fan Club! Visit https://crimejunkiepodcast.com/fanclub/ to view the current membership options and policies. Don’t miss out on all things Crime Junkie! Instagram: @crimejunkiepodcast | @audiochuck Twitter: @CrimeJunkiePod | @audiochuck TikTok: @crimejunkiepodcast Facebook: /CrimeJunkiePodcast | /audiochuckllc Crime Junkie is hosted by Ashley Flowers and Brit Prawat.  Instagram: @ashleyflowers | @britprawat Twitter: @Ash_Flowers | @britprawat TikTok: @ashleyflowerscrimejunkie Facebook: /AshleyFlowers.AF   Text Ashley at 317-733-7485 to talk all things true crime, get behind the scenes updates, and more! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hi, Crime Jenkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers. And I'm Britt. And today's episode's going to be very different. This is a bonus episode because I just need to talk about what I just watched. So badly that you texted me, Alyssa. My sister. And Kate. Who works here? Who works here? I like 9 o'clock at night after nine and said, my evangelical gals. All caps. Did the Lord magically sink her phone? OMG, I believe in God again, if he redirects all his energy to out dirty pastors. And Alyssa goes, what are you talking about? And then you disregard that question and go straight into.

JP arrived at the scene. The pastor's wife on Netflix. And she goes, stop. I haven't watched it yet. I also hadn't watched it. But I was like, oh my God, I know this case. This is the Micah Miller case. The pastor's wife just dropped on Netflix.

I stayed up to like. It's like the death of the pastor's wife is like the actual title or something. Yeah. So this is the story of Micah Miller, who is alleged to have taken her own life in April of 2024. Like I stayed up, binged it to like midnight. It was a school night. Yes. Everyone else was apparently like going to bed. Yes.

But I could not look away. This case is unbelievable. And I know it's what everyone is talking about. So many of the crime junkies are talking about it. I want to just have a discussion about everything that was in this documentary. And also I couldn't help myself. I, in 24 hours, have just gone on a rampage on the internet and found everything that I think the documentary also left out. Okay.

So I just want to talk to my best friend about this doc. Well, especially because like this case feels very close to home because you and I both grew up together in an evangelical non-denominational term. It, trigger warning. There was a lot here that was like familiar and terrifying. Yeah. It's the best way to describe it. So trigger warning to my evangelical gals. And also, spoiler alert to anyone who hasn't watched this.

So you can either, trust me, even if you stay here, you're going to want to go see this for yourself. Or you can go watch it and come back. But let's just, enough, I just want to dive in. Okay. So I have to be totally honest. I have been, like I know Micah Miller's name. I have been kind of followed. One of our reporters had even, like, reached out to her family and was like, we were going to cover it.

But they couldn't really talk, which is when we kind of put everything on pause. So I was never like deep, deep, deep into this case. I knew I knew the allegations. I knew she had bought a gun. I knew she had seen like the announcement from the platform like him, right? I never even fully watched that. Like I saw all the news reports that came from that. Okay.

Where he basically said. you know, my wife, she was mentally ill. She was self-induced. Like, and I knew that she, like I said, I knew she had gone to buy a gun. I knew she had called 911, so they would know her location. And, but I also knew that there were a lot of questions. Yeah. But I, I wasn't fully aware of what all of those were. So when I jumped into this dock, I truthfully kind of got in cold. Yes. And didn't even really know. I know Micah Miller's name. I didn't even really register, like, who is the pastor husband? Oh. Yes. So when she gets married. When I, yes.

So when I go in and I, like, as soon as she starts at this church and I see John Paul, I, you know, I'm like giving myself my own commentary. And as soon as they, like, brought him on screen, and I was like, yep, creep. And then she gets married to someone else. And I was like, I, do I have it all wrong? Yeah. Is my radar broken? It's not. It's not.

And then I marked it. It was like, oh, 12 minutes and 30 seconds in, nope, I am correct. Because Micah gets married really young to a guy she meets at church. They're, like, are working in the church together. They get married really young. And she is working at the church and working really closely with John Paul, J.P., who is the pastor at the church, who has been her pastor since she was 13 or 14, I think. Young, very young. Yeah.

And he put her in, like, very, very close. him. Like she, which I'll get to later when I talk about like kind of some of the stuff I found, it seems to be a little bit of a pattern. Like, so not only were they close as a couple. Like he was married to another woman at the time. She's married to her husband. They like go out all the time even though there's like a big age gap. But like this is the dynamic that when you and I grew up in a church, like, isn't that weird. I think it would be strange now thinking about it as like an 18 year old and my boyfriend husband to be like hanging out with a couple that's 15 years older. But not in. You. You. You're not in. You. You. group for some reason. No. And like I, when I was watching this, I was like, I also, like, to be clear, was in the church for much longer than you were and was much more heavily involved for much longer than you were. Two pictures of you like on a stage, a hand in the air. When she, when it's like, when in the documentary they talk about her being in like this leadership role at the church when she was 16, I was put in the same leadership role at my church when I was 18. So like, I'm, it's. seems incredible and unlikely when you're watching it in the dock. But like, I was like, oh, I know exactly how that happens. I know exactly like also like what it feels like to be that young and to get that much responsibility in this place that you love and care about so much and how much of like an honor and a responsibility that feels like to do anything to do any,

yeah, like to do anything to stay in that role and to like something that came through in the doc, I'll probably talk about a million times is how much she cared for people. Like Micah truly loved people honestly more than I do or ever have. And like she wanted to keep that role so she could keep helping people. Like that truly was her heart through it all. And knowing like,

not even knowing, but like assuming how much she had to like give up of herself to be in that role and to keep that is like I'm going to start. I'm going to cry in this episode. I'm just going to tell you guys that. Oh man. But like it seems like it seems wild to watch it. But like as someone who lived it, it's not unbelievable to me.

One of the questions, I don't know who asked me this, but they were like, I don't understand how there's so much video. And I was like, they're like, is that normal? And I was like, oh, yeah. For some reason, like, even in the church we grew up and like, they document everything. Yeah. And like, I think the, like, logistically the reason is like, so you can either like reference back to it when you do Christmas next year or to like be able to distribute it to

help other people, right? Like, you record sermons so that you can share sermons. But, like, it is something that, like, there is a lot of footage of churches, especially nowadays. Treasure trove. Yeah. Having so much video footage, I think A, what I, okay, first of all, the first thing I saw that I was like, oh, this one might be hard for me. The banners? Did you see the banners in the back of the church? And I was like, we had that our god is king one. Yes. I was like, do all the banners come from the same place? If you, if you, like, watch the whole documentary and like, I've obviously watched it a couple of times now, but like the banners move in the buildings to different places.

And like towards the end when they're in like a like the last location that they show the church meeting in, like it's a much smaller room, but the banners are still there. And I'm like, we could just have not packed these. I don't know. That's just me. The banners, the worship songs, it was like a soundtrack to our youth. Like I hope. There's a lot of songs that I recognize for sure.

Yeah, for sure. And the sermons. I think perhaps if someone. comes into this documentary who did not grow up the way that we did, these sermons seem, oh yeah, and this, by the way, this episode will probably be explicit. So I don't think we're going to have time to believe, but this, they will seem bats crazy. Yeah. Because they are. Yes. However, I was like pretty sure I heard that growing up. Yes. And I will say yes. And they mentioned the documentary. They have like over 500 downloaded sermon.

of footage of this guy talking. And we saw, I think I counted like four or five, maybe six total actual sermons, not funerals because we do see footage of funerals that he does. And so like, I think the important thing to remember is like, yes, these are all bats. But these are also selections that are especially bad. There's a thousand percent some crazy stuff in the other 500.

But like, if you sandwich this sort of like interesting content in between things that seem very benign, it's really easy to not realize what's happening. So that makes sense? Yeah. Like I get what you're saying. At first I thought you were saying like, oh, it's probably, I was like, wait, girl. No. Like, this is one sermon.

It's two minutes. It's two minutes of one sermon in a 40 minute sermon in 500. Yeah, exactly. And what I find, though, is the ones that they show, it's what is so clear as you watch the documentary is like he is preaching to who, to her. To her. Yeah, it's like, it's less about what the congregation takes away, and I'm sure he wants everyone to think the way that he thinks. Well, and someone in the documentary even says, like, he said before that, like, he only teaches on things that he himself is experiencing or is struggling with.

Yeah. And he is trying to, so much of what you see Micah struggling with as they, like show her journals and stuff, is this idea of like he is anointed by God. I want to follow God. And he, he, anointed by God, on the stage in front of everyone. So it's not he's just telling me this. He's telling everyone this. So it's not just, it's like, it's good, it's, it's something that can help everybody, including me. Yeah. It's how it's being presented to her. So it starts off, like, we get like little ones first where he's like, oh, you can still be in love with your spouse and still battle lust. And I was like, okay, you're saying that because clearly there's, because you are. Are battling.

Right. But then he gets like, like, it goes on from there. And like, I don't know if you want to go like episode by episode. So I like, I won't get too far away. But I have like, I have like selected the couple of sermons where I am like, he said this out loud. and nobody stood up and walked out. Yes. Now, in episode one, so we get a little bit about like not a ton of background necessarily on the both of them.

I think it starts with a little bit or whatever. But what we find out is that like once this affair happens, so him and him and Micah have this affair. JP and Mike have this affair. They're both married at the time. It comes out and Micah and her husband get divorced. and J.P.'s wife, Allie, is having none of it. Like, she's out. Yeah. Amazing on her. And he, like, cannot handle being left. And we get this moment in the doc. And I think this is the first one where I'm like, what? Hang on. I actually have to play you. So the same way I frantically was texting you.

I was desperately looking for anyone in my life who was watching this documentary. And I was texting like, our reporter Mads, uh, Brianna. And Brianna and I and I at some point, point. Brianna in a completely different time zone, so she was still awake watching. Yes. And so I was like, she started sending me voice notes. I just need to play it for you because she, the first voice note I got was about the same moment where I'm like, what am I watching? I'm almost done with episode one. But like, what was that cell phone video of John Paul like on the ground outside of the car? Like, crying. What was that? That was so weird. It's also, like, on like a production level, weird.

Like, who's shooting it? When is this? What's happening? Who is he talking to? Why is he on the ground? Who's, like, he's something like, I think they were saying Mark's coming. Who's Mark? Well, we know who Mark is.

That's like the best man. Oh, right. Don't even start on Mark. We know Mark. But, like, the woman across the street has Mark's number. Why does she have Mark's number? Why are we videotieving? There's ants in his eyes.

a lot going on in this video. And like, they never explain it. I know. I told her I was like, I needed a three-part documentary on that clip. On this clip. We don't like go into it. Was he like intoxicated? Did he fall out of his car? Like, but I think what I think it shows that we will get later and later is like his extreme way that he will like be the victim. Yeah. Right. Like this is about him. Like he had the affair. But he'll do anything to get his family back. spoiler alert, he does not get his family back. Now, one of the things that is said in the documentary is that apparently J.P. was like, now that they're getting divorced, a lot of people like loved his wife, they're

hemorrhaging members. And so what you see happen is him and Micah end up getting together. I don't know the ins and outs of their relationship, but what you can see happening. So I don't know who said what or whose idea or whatever, but like, I think at one point she's like, I want something good to come of this. And I wonder how much, like once we know later how much control he had. And how much coercion and manipulation he was using in their lives, how much he was saying, we have to. We could turn this into something good.

Yeah. And what he ends up using later is like, is if she does anything, the whole church will fall apart because of hers. So is there a moment when he's like, oh, we have to stay together because. It's the only way to stop this bad thing from happening. This affair is what is breaking apart the church. Only the marriage can bring it back together. So they end up getting together and it is the perfect example of how everything seems picture perfect online. Yes.

Like the proposal on the beach with the banner and she's over the moon and like they seem incredibly happy. Yeah. But I think even from day one, things were not what they seemed. No, like in my opinion, they almost couldn't be. We get a little bit more in episode one as well of like his his sermons, right? And about the way that he's talking about himself. One of my favorites was he was like, God's seen everything you've done, everything you're going to do. And he's already forgiven you.

Wild foreshadowing. Spoiler alert. But it's like, it's fine. God has forgiven him. And then he has his other one. that like I like I feel like most of my moments were just like listening to him preach and being like jaw on the floor because he has this other moment where he says that when you commit adultery on God he keeps pursuing you and loving you every single day and he likened salvation to marriage and this is at the point I think when Micah and I don't know how early she realized but at some point is realizing oh he is running around on her just like he did before like to quote euphoria is this play about Yes. Yes. And so, but again, he's like using his, his pulpit to just spew this stuff. Okay, so the moment that everything, I think, changes and takes this very dramatic turn into where we will end up a couple of years from now is apparently she has this breast augmentation, which her family thinks maybe she got just because of him. I have no idea why she chose to do that. But there's this, I was going to say insinuation, but it's pretty blatant in the dock where they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they. They. They. They. They. They. They. They. They. They. They. They. They. They. say or someone is saying that yeah they basically i was going to say imply but you're right they say

that the anesthesia there was a reaction to the anesthesia and she like began having like psychotic episode she was going in and out of psychosis from the anesthesia which i have like 400 questions about yeah because we really to like prove this we really get one video that he is taking of her where she she isn't making sense no but it's strange because, like, there is another moment in that first episode where you can tell she is taking a video. And it's like, by the way, this is something that, like, I've seen people do in really toxic relationships is they'll, like, record themselves video, audio to, like, play back later. To prove to themselves what's happening. Yeah, because the other person will, like, make them feel crazy.

Yeah. Gaslight them. Right. And so, like, the first time we see this, like, moment, she's not recording. She's just kind of talking to him. And sounding off. And like you can't even really tell if she knows she's being recorded in that moment. Like the phone's kind of like off.

The shot's kind of like off to the side. And like she's not acknowledging that she's being filmed at all. But the second time that you're talking about when she's filming herself, she does acknowledge. Like, hey, yeah, go ahead. Double film me. Like if that's what you want to do. Which I think is interesting that we don't have like her point of view. Her version.

We have his, which is the like encapsulation of this entire case. and like the entire last few years of her life. We have his version. Because of him. Right. Like that's very obvious. So at some point, like this is 1856, and this is like what I couldn't believe in the documentary. He has her involuntarily committed.

Yes. Which I know you can do. And we see some of the medical documents that do state that she's like seemingly delusional. She's having like hyper-religious speak. Like there are things that indicate she has seemingly had some break with reality. How she got there, why she got there. I have, like I said, 400 questions about. But she gets out of there.

They get married. Six days after she gets out. Which is like, because he had a time plan. That was the other thing they said. Like once they like decided they were going to be together, apparently he gave her some kind of like. like we're going to get engaged at this point. We're going to be engaged for this long. And like her be. I wonder if like I'm going to have you committed was like in there as well. I would say her being institutionalized like could have thrown off his schedule and that was not going to be okay.

Not today. The vows I thought were interesting. Did you clock those? She's they, one they, she said that they had gone in with a plan to give each other five promises. And she could only come up with one. And her promise was to give 100% of everything she does, 100% of herself, 100% of her encouragement. This is like a kind of broad quote to him. Yeah, everything I am I give to you. His was like different. And I don't even know if we heard all of his. I don't know if we heard all of it, but I did take notes.

I'll strive to continuously lead you to Jesus. So she needs to be led. I promise to always support your enthusiastic personality. Which is like timing-wise interesting because he just had her committed for like kind of that. And it's not even like, like, I love it. It's like, I'll support your enthusiastic personality. He'll remain faithful, loyal, encouraging. Spoiler alert, no.

And he's going to strive to love you the way Christ loved the church. He'll try. Right. That was like his best thing. She's like, I'm whatever. I just couldn't. I agree. I also will say that, like, in hindsight, those are all, like, really vows.

Yeah. But in the moment, in that environment, those vows are super normal. Those vows are super normal. I know. Like I want to be like really clear that we are watching a documentary and we are looking at it like a decade or more out of the church. I don't think those vows would have given me any red flags. Not at the time. But her family, I mean, her family.

Her family was not thrilled. Because they had more background. But and this is where, yeah, no, the vows by themselves don't. And to your point of the same thing with the sermons. it's like when you're in it and you're living it. I think this is what can be so hard to like spot abuse in someone else. It's like you from the outside get these like tiny moments where like something feels off.

Smushed in between everything else. You're like, well, everything else is like that must just be like a weird them thing. And maybe the vows aren't even that because like I agree with you in the church that wouldn't have registered. But like this is when after they get married, I think their friends start to get those weird moments. It's like the... Well, and her... She, and I told a couple other people of this after I watched it, like, I am so proud of her for how much she talked to her friends.

Yeah. Because, I mean, you and I see it all the time in episodes where, like, abuse and coercion and manipulation is happening. And the person experiencing it never says a thing. Yeah. And you find out from their diaries or you find out from their recordings. And you don't find out any of that until it's too late. And, like, she was already doing. that, but I can tell you from experience, saying those things in that environment.

About your, the pastor. About your husband, the pastor. Impossible. Incredibly brave for her to say the things that she said to anyone, let alone we have like three of her friends at least, plus her family. Like she was saying things that like, I know are really, really scary to say in any environment from the work that we do, but like in that environment is honestly almost unheard of. I know. And I don't know how long it took her to get to that point, but like she does start to

drop these little things. Like, right? At one point, she's like, I'm not allowed to like get out of bed before him in the morning. And again, her friends are like, well, that's kind of weird, but like your relationship, you guys do you. Yeah. And then it starts getting more concerning where she's like, we have sex every single day, sometimes multiple times a day. And if it doesn't happen, he finds it somewhere else. Every day. Which is like, all of her friends were like, girl, are you okay? Like, it's wild.

And I think that, like, I think he must have known that she was starting to share because, or this, I mean, we see this in so many abusive relationships. But like this idea that we get in the documentary where she talks about, one of her friends talks about how she's not allowed to, like, hang out for more than like two hours or three hours. And he starts because you start calling and calling and calling. And I think I was thinking about like what that is. It's like I don't think it's that they want to be with them.

It's like in an hour, everyone's catching up, right? Everyone's talking. But like the more time you give them to share and share. It's the comfortable level. It's like when my dad would like let us rough house and he's like, okay, but after 15 minutes, like you're going to hurt yourself because you're going to get too comfortable. Like you're going to like push the limits because you're in this place of like you're in the zone. Yeah.

And you'll push yourself and push yourself until someone gets hurt. And like that's essentially the same thing, but emotionally. Like she's going to be so comfortable that she's going to open it up and it's going to expose him. Or she's going to also like the longer you're out of the bubble and you hear you realize that what your life is weird. Yeah. That's not okay. You and your husband, your husband doesn't make you have sex with them every single day. Oh, your husband doesn't make you like, oh my God, maybe there is something.

Like I feel like it's wrong, but I'm being told it's not. There's like the affirmation that like this is. It's so much of why someone in a relationship, they'll give you whatever excuse they want to keep. keep you away from people. It's isolation. But yeah, isolation is for a reason. Put the excuses aside. Go out, go beyond the bubble, is what I would suggest to people.

Spend more time outside. And I think you realize what's happening inside is not right. And I think more and more that was starting to happen for her. Now, at some point, the relationship, like, it had to have looked good from the outside, right? Like, they're getting married. People are happy for them. Her family's showing up to the wedding. The church seems to be doing, like, well.

Yeah. But it starts, like, really deteriorating. And it seems like that began to happen, at least the way they positioned it in the documentary, because he starts pushing her more and more. Whatever was happening before in their marriage, he gets to this point where he's pushing her sexually. And, like, it feels like this breaking point was when he was, like, asking her, like, you know, if you had to kiss any of your friends. And, like, the way. he does this made me want to crawl out of my skin because she's like, I know, no, I don't, I don't.

But he pushes and pushes. And finally, she says a name of like a very close friend of hers. And then he flips. The way he put her and him in a group chat with that friend was psychotic. And it's like the way he tried to like control the story of like, okay, I'm going to put you in this friend and I'm going to talk about how you're crazy and you're leaving. And she's like, I just wanted to go see my sister. Yeah. Like, what are you talking about?

You're acting crazy. And it's like you, again, and it's all about God. Like, you're not being godly. And no man would stand for this. It was unbelievable. And she's starting to move more and more away. And this is when we get like the first, I don't know how much violence she was experiencing. But the first thing we see in the documentary is like there's a point where he threatens to come to her sisters.

With a gun. I mean, I think what he says is I'm armed and ready. in the documentary, I think they show an image of a gun. So I'm making the inference. And there is talk in Affidavits later about him purchasing guns going shooting. So anyways, unbelievable. And so this is where we get that violence that's being threatened. Right, because up until now, it's like psychological, emotional.

Or seems like that's all we know about. That's all that we've seen in the documentary, at least. So we really end episode one at that point. Yeah. I was hooked. So episode two, we open with, you know, this beautiful sermon where he is talking about, obey those who have authority over you because no authority exists without God's permission. And again, this is the theme throughout.

God has anointed him. God must have given him authority. And this is the thing that I'm like, I don't know why people believe. Because also in the Bible, it's like, beware of false profit. And so, like, I want to make sure that comes through. This, I watched this documentary the first time with your sister, which was. Oh, did you really? Yeah, we watched it together because, like, you came, like, you had texted this the night before.

We came into work the next day and you were like, we're going to talk about this. So you guys should watch it. And we're like, well, why not? So we watched it together. And that was something that we both, like, paused and we're like, so this is kind of like an auriboris, a snake that eats its own tail, right? It's like, you're anointed by God because God told you you're anointed. So you're anointed by God because you're like, it, it was really hard. And I think this might be like a good time to like talk a little bit about what a non-denominable

church is. Like, yeah, like to a certain extent in this non-denominational church, that's all he needs, right? Like is the belief that he is anointed by God to do this. In a lot of non-denominational churches, there isn't necessarily an, like governing body that like specifically ordains or teaches and trains through a program. Like there are a lot of churches that are non-denominational that like are kind of just started by people and stop. And like that I don't I don't know J.P. Miller's like theological seminary educational history. But like I got some details coming your way.

Which is why I didn't Google. But like I know that. that like we both kind of sat there and we're like, you know, like, he's saying this and he's because he's saying it, he's proving it. And that's really the only proof we have. And in this sort of culture, that is a lot of times all there is and enough. I, yeah. So like, we'll get to this a little bit later because it kind of gets revealed, I think, in episode two or three, that like the structure of their church is just like, oh, I have that written down already. Bro, it's a business. Like, you own a business. Yeah, because we're going to get ahead of

ourselves. But yes, essentially. And I can talk more a little bit to that as well. But I, but, but, yeah. So it's like there's this, like, this body of people who have decided that you are, God has told them. God told no one but you that you. And like maybe there are people in your life who have supported that, like, oh, that would have been, calling. That would have been his father. Which we can talk about later. Which I will get to in the documents. But like there are likely like people affirming that like feel of calling on his life. But like, as far as like, were there, like, things he, boxes he had to tick to get there, I would guess not really. So obey those have authority. God only gives authority. A wife should always honor and respect her husbands. And he basically is like, and it's not just

honor or respect. Because what all these be come about is sex. Sex. If you're not fulfilling your husband, someone else is going to. I don't know when it is that he, I think it's in this one. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you, like, don't meet the needs of your husband, Satan's going to come and give him 20 things by the end of the day. And I'm like, wait, does Satan not come normally? Or it's like, and I think later he basically is like, but then you don't have the self control to like turn Satan away. And I'm like, bro, that's, you're a grown ass man. But also like, like putting putting the mindset in like, but you're a child of God. So shouldn't you? Like by your own by your own teaching, you actually should have that power. Well, not if your wife doesn't have sex with you that day. So, I just like, this is what he is time. And again, we didn't grow up in a world where this was like that crazy to hear. No. And again, like, coming back to this is a tiny little grain of sand that is horrible amongst a thing, a bunch of stuff that is completely like, good is like a stretch. But like benign.

Right. Like not imminently harmful. And the other stuff. Yeah. The other stuff is like, oh, that kind of makes sense. So, like, this, he wouldn't just slip in some weird shit. Yeah. He's a pastor.

And, like, episode two really becomes about what he's, like, forcing her to do to meet his sexual needs. Because I think the whole episode is titled Helpmate, which I had never heard before. Oh, it's... What? It's like, it could be a translation for, like, literally Genesis in Adam and Eve. Like, in, like, the Helpmate or Help Meet is, like, what, like, in some translations is what Eve is to Adam. It goes back to like the very core of like humanity in like how like biblical people in church. I don't want to say biblical scholars because there's like a lot of debate about it.

But like it is in translations as like the wife is a helpmate or helpmate. And like that is the core of humanity and what partnership is in a lot of translations and in a lot of denominations and in a lot of denominations and non-denominational churches. is like that is the wording and that is the thought process and that is all the way back to the very first book of the Bible. I was a pastor's wife for a long time, guys. Oh yeah. Do people know that? I feel like maybe this is a good time. I brought that. I guess I didn't. I'm like, obviously, I've known you for 38 years. Wait, you want to give like a quick, quick history? Sure. Ashley and I grew up in the same church. The church that we grew up in, my dad had been going to, since he was 16. So I, like, grew up. My dad grew up in a church.

My dad was an associate pastor, which like, again, this was like what I would consider a megachurch. Especially in like the 80s and 90s. Yeah. I mean, they had the televangelist. They were in other countries. They were like. There was a television network. Our church sat like over 2,000 people. Yeah. And so, yeah, your parents were deep in it. My dad worked there. I like lived on the property of the church. Yeah, naturally. My mom was the worship leader. My entire childhood. My dad was like head usher. I started on a worship team when I was 11 and then was on a worship team essentially until I left the church when I was like in my late 20s. I met my husband there. Justin grew up with us as well. His family started going there when he was like two. So we all grew up together. We were on a worship team together. I thankfully cannot sing. So you'll never get a picture of me on stage. I know. I was like, let's get pictures of you guys working together. I was like, oh, no.

No, no, no. She wasn't there. No, no. I like, you still have, like, the little bit of the snobby worship team in you. We're like, no, no, no, no. No, she's not on the team. But we, our church went through a lot of turmoil around our high school years. There were church splits. There were pastors leaving. There was different versions of, like, the church we grew up in.

I dabbled in a little bit of all of them. I was gone. You were gone. I was out. Justin and I got married also really young and we started going to a different church. We stayed there until I was like 29, I think, 28 or 29. Left for a lot of different reasons. But while we were there, I was also a worship pastor there.

He became ordained and he was an associate pastor there for, I think, four or five years. And so for four or five years, he was a pastor. I was a worship leader. I was a pastor's wife. We like Justin, you guys. Justin's cool. Justin is really cool. We're good now. We're all good. We're safe. We're all safe. But like I, so I, as recently as legitimately 10 years ago, like was I could close, I can like close my eyes and put myself in Solid Rock Church because I went to a church that was like based on like the videos and pictures that I've seen like not that far off. Not far off. Like this honestly like the stage looked really similar to the one that I was on most recently. Like the size of the church looked really similar. The comparisons, especially as I get into like the structure and like what happened is kind of wild.

So it's not like I think what I was seeing in there and why I felt so like, oh my God, I like I was in this church. It's because of things that happened that you don't even know about. It's a one for one. Just even the structure and like the, I mean, kind of unbelievable. Oh, also speaking of this is back to the like you're your own authority. You were the one who just told me. So the head of our church, the founder of our church was a doctor, whatever, whatever. And you're like, you know he wasn't like, he didn't actually have like a PhD or anything. And I was like, wait, what? You're like a couple of years ago. She's like, so doctor wasn't a doctor? Because like we also called him doctor. Yeah. Like all the time. And you're like, so doctor wasn't a doctor? And I was like, girl, where did you? Where did you see he went? He made his own Bible college and made himself a doctor. And I was like, you got to be freaking kidding me.

Wait, how did we? Because I went off on like a tangent about Bible translations and then had to tell people that I help me. So in this episode, the next wild part that we got. So all this is like very much focused on like her meeting his sexual needs. Do you want to talk about the testosterone? This. I couldn't. I couldn't.

I couldn't. Like as a vocalist and a worship leader. Like she's like on stage. She's struggling. She's losing her voice. Her hair is falling out. And everyone's like, oh, she's just like going through it. Well, because also it's like, I'm on, you know, I'm on some meds. And we, we know, he has been very open about like, oh, she has these mental health struggles. I'm sure she was too. And, you know, we all know she had been committed by him before. And so you kind of think, and I think they do this strategically in the documentary. You like think you're like, oh, it must be, it had to do with all that. I don't know what, I don't know what medication she was on. And they even say, like, at some point in time, like, some of the medications, like, she's concerned about weight gain. And like, she's. And like, she's. feeling self-conscious because of some of the medication she's on. You're like, oh, okay. And then you see her lose her voice. And then someone that was on the team with her and one of her close friends was like, all of a sudden, like, her range was gone. Like, when her voice came back, it was like, she had a completely different voice. And I was like, I know, like, when I'm sick,

like my voice can change and I can lose, like, especially when I was singing a lot. Like, I could lose like a couple of, like, high notes or low notes, whatever. Um, no, she lost her range because she was taking testosterone and her voice was, like, physically lowering from taking testosterone because he wanted her to take testosterone so she could keep up with him sexually. Him. I like, I, this is the point where I was like, I mean, I hated him throughout. But I was like, you got to be. Like, the abuse.

She at some point is like I am physically, sexually, emotionally, financial, like all this type of abuse. And I think it gets lumped into physically. but the medical abuse. Yeah. The way that the medical system was used, they talk about him, like, withholding her meds. I was just what I was, it's mentioned early when they talk about her initial diagnosis. But, like, he, like, writes to her and you see, like, a snippet of that, like, email or letter or whatever where he's like, you know, this is a lot for me to bear too, you know. Like, I am now responsible.

Oh, it's his burden for the next 50 to 60 years. I'm responsible for, like, making sure you take your meds. and like... I didn't ask you. Right. Didn't ask you to do that. But it seems like you're making that your job. And like in making that his job, he also uses it as another tool of manipulation and coercion.

And the fact that it's like... Like if it's going to be his job, he's going to make it work for him too. Ugh. So she could do it every day. How many years was she with him? Right. So now he's injecting her with hormones. And this is the point.

We skipped this early on because they make a light mention of it. So not only is he forcing her to do this. When he makes a parody song about her losing her voice. I mean, all the parodies were honestly like incredibly cringe. But that one was especially horrific. Especially when you like realize that it's not she's doing it. Like it's not like she wanted to do. Like you forced her to do this thing that she doesn't want to do sexual act.

She doesn't totally doesn't want to do. Things that she doesn't want to do and then makes her sing about something she doesn't want to do. And yeah. And then you have to like joke about it because she can't. Like I, that whole parody song thing was so weird. And don't worry, it comes back again. Good, good, good, good. Awesome.

So this brings me to text message gate. Which is where I got dropped in initially at 9.26 p.m. with a text message from you. Which I have extra stories about. So. There is this woman who is a pastor at their church as well. She got brought in when the first affair happened, like with Micah, right? He, like, brings in this other pastor.

Pam News. Yeah, the church needs stability. They need somebody who's just like. Like a seasoned pastor who's going to like help them weather this storm. Usher them through these trying times. And so it seems like she's there for a while. Wow. She one day is at home.

But it sounds like she has like a work phone, a church phone. Yeah. And out of nowhere, sounds like this was not a normal thing. The work phone starts blowing up. And she realizes she is seeing a text chain between J.P. And his best friend, Mark Kaufman, right? Now, she's like, JP is in bed with Micah at the time he's like, I mean, based on like.

based on the messages. While he's instructing Mark to go like pick up this other young woman from the airport because apparently she is coming to see him, which first introduce what is Mark's role? Like I mean, we know he's his best friend. He's his best man in the wedding. But I have a lot of questions about Mark, his loyalty to JP, what he's willing, why he's willing to do this. He's someone I'm very interested in. But this is when the, the, the, the, the other pastor realizes like, oh my God, this thing, this thing that I thought had stopped, the reason I came in because it had stopped to fix things, has never stopped. Which I, this is where I texted you. I was like, I will believe in God again if, like, all of his energy can be directed into, like, exposing dirty pastors because this is not the first time I've seen something weird like this happened. So there are two other stories, one of them personal. And I don't know if you've ever heard the story. So. There is this episode of, and you know I'm obsessed with the podcast Betrayal Weeking.

Oh, yes, yes. So there is, oh, shoot, hang on, I got to find her name. There is an episode that I'm obsessed with. I've listened to it like three times. Oh, Tracy is the episode from September of 2025. And her whole betrayal story is about this church in the South in like the 90s. And Tracy's a fake name. You don't get the real names.

But it's, I call it the Angel Nathan story. because her story has to do it. Basically, like, she finds out her husband, who is the pastor, was, like, having this affair because this anonymous Angel Nathan starts sending people in the congregation, like, letters. And he starts out with the pastor. It's like, you need to admit to this. Like, come clean to your congregation. And, like, we're good. Otherwise, I've got recordings of you and this other woman that I'm going to release.

And Angel Nathan does. So, like, it's another one of these, like, how did we get this? This next one is less exposing pastors. Yeah, I have so many thoughts on that. Less exposing pastors. And so when my dad worked in a church in South Carolina. Oh, interesting. Brief time in our life we lived in South Carolina.

My, it was like this like freak thing where someone in the church was like talking much of shit about my dad. But like the phone lines got crossed or something. The machine, the voicemail machine started recording. And like it recorded the whole. whole thing. So I don't know what like magical stuff is going up, but there is someone. It's like the opposite of you messing everything tech up. Yeah. God is here to like actually make tech work weirdly. He's like not in my house. No, no, no, no, no, no. So I am like all for this. But so this is when she, this is when the other pastor finds out like, oh, you are full of shit.

Like you've done a great job at putting on this show, making people think that you are sincere. and none of it has been real. She can, like, see through the mess. And I don't know. What's unclear is, like, how many affairs he's had over the years. Because it's not just one or two based on every implication in the entire documentary. Yes. And keep touching my little, my cute little papers back here.

They're starting to scare me. It seems like there is a lot. on happening. And this is just, this is like, it's not, like, at first I think it's easy to believe, like, oh, he's got these two lives that are conflicting, right? He's, he's, as he says, struggling with lust or whatever. And what you, I think, see as you get into episode two and then episode three is it really feels like this entire church, it's not a guy, a guy who's conflicted. The church and the organization, all of that feels like it is made to allow. him to just be a devian person.

Right. I was going to say because this is the part that like I had made some notes on because the pastor who like gets this magical, mystical, spiritual sink. She does what I think anybody in that position would do. And she calls the elders of the church, which like the elders would be like in theory, not necessarily a governing body, but like a body of people in the church. who are like... Represent the people of the church. Yes.

And I think she says, like, they are the, they are representing the congregation. Like, they are the ones who, like, in churches that I've been. And, like, they've been the ones who have been, like, called to, like, hey, like, we think this pastor should step down. We're going to have, like, a congregational vote about it or whatever. And, like, they're the ones who kind of act in a way as a governing body. Different churches that set up different ways. Denominations specifically have, like, boards and actual governing bodies, non-denominational, again. kind of a free-for-all. But like...

I know. I was like, wait, it's not just one guy. Like, I thought... My version of church didn't have a governing... One of our churches had, like, a board, but it was all... It was, like, all people colluding with each other to a certain extent until they stopped. Anyway. But this one, like, these elders, while they were, like, representatives of the congregation, were not a governing body in that they had zero power.

They were just like... For sure. Essentially. Like, like, not even to support the pastor, just... to make it look like he had a governing body almost. Right. It's to like, it's to make, it's why it's like it's bananas to me. And now we're getting into like financials and stuff. But like when I started Season of Justice, so like the nonprofit has to submit its financials like every year to be a nonprofit. Like you have to know where your money is coming from exactly where it's going to like how are you using your funds? How much of the funds are just sitting there? Who's getting paid what?

What are your expenses? All of that is known. It is one. It is one. It is wild to me. That is not necessary for churches. As a congregant who is tithing, I assume, like giving time the way they use volunteers, I would want to know. And I don't know why more people don't kind of demand this of their churches, especially these mega churches. Where's it going? I would like to as vaguely as possible remind you that the first time our church went through something major, it was because people didn't want those things to come to light. Wait, I didn't know is that. Really? Yeah, like people were,

a governing body was saying that the church essentially was not functional at the size that it was for like the space that it was in and like the staff that it had, which like obviously affects you quite a lot or would have affected you quite a lot. And when they asked like, okay, like, what does that number need to be? Like, can we have like a financial campaign where we can tell the members where we are and like let them know that this is the state that the church is in. That was not something that everyone was comfortable. No. Being publicized.

Interesting. There was a lot of other things that went into that. But like that was like something that contributed to like why the pastor that we had at the time no longer was at the church. And like we can talk about that more with like actual names and stuff. but like not on mic. Yeah. Oh.

I mean, I knew it was about money and stuff, but like I thought it was a, yeah. Okay. Follow up conversations. Yeah. So like off mic. But that's kind of like what I was like so surprised and frustrated and not surprised at all about when she did go to the elders and was like, hey, this guy's going off fix it. And they're like, we can't do anything. Hands are tied.

Yeah. Sorry. Too bad. So sad. Now, then we, so we get into this idea that like, okay, she's like, well, I'm out. Yeah. Church is still his, still yours. What is he doing with this church?

What is he doing as far as like affairs go? Now, I don't know. We have no idea who this young woman was who is coming into town to meet him. Because she's coming from an airport, I assume it is not. She's not from around here. Susie Skinner, who we will talk about next. Yeah. So Susie Skinner is his.

his next alleged affair. Susie, of course, married. And in the congregation. And in the congregation, she starts going to the church. It doesn't sound like her husband was really going to the church. I don't know how much autonomy her husband had. Right. So they met because she was like his, like he was in physical therapy and she met him.

He had had like an accident where he had lost a lot of mobility. wheelchair bound. Wheelchair bound. he hired her or like they met in physical therapy or she was like helping him in some way and they hit it off and got married. Yes. So she decides to start going to this church. And again, it might be one of those things where he like come sometimes, whatever, but it seems like she was really, really involved. She was really involved.

Yeah. And this is the affair like, Micah clearly finds out about this and gives JP multiple ultimatums, multiple chances to end it, which she's telling people. he does not. And I don't think they were being secretive about it because, right, like Micah's brother ends up catching them. He says in the documentary where they're like holding hands and he's like, oh, blah, he like confronts them. And because they're not being secretive, somehow it gets back to Susie Skinner's husband, Chris. And he also like, again, they're not being secretive. What he says, I think in the documentary is that she thinks that the pastor has a crush on her. So I don't know what she's framing. I don't know what he has experienced. But at the same time, Chris's sister is in the documentary, and she's like, he's feeling like his care is like, is like lacking in his time. He's not getting showered as much. Like, Susie is clearly distracted by something at that time.

And so he makes it a point to go to the church one Sunday, confront the pastor, basically like leave my wife alone. And I don't know. it doesn't say exactly how long, but like weeks, a month. And we also don't know what happened when he went to the church. We get nothing about that. We just know that his plan was to go to the church and confront JP. Which I have a feeling the only people who would be in that room. JP, him, if they allowed their wives, Micah's no longer here to talk about it.

And Susie isn't going to talk about it for reasons we'll get to. Anyway, so we know that Chris at least has intentions to go. front J.P. And at some point in time, after he states that intention, whether he makes it the church, talks to him, what that conversation is, regardless, after that point, he dies. How does he die? He drowns at the bottom of his apartment complex or, like, community swimming pool. He's in his wheelchair and it goes in by some accident, by some intention. The foul play is not suspected in his case. But this was the second text message I sent you.

Well, I said, J.P. was first at the scene. The first people to show up. The first people that Susie called. JP and Micah together. Yeah. But they show up before Chris's family has any idea that he died. Which I get, it's the pastor of her. church. That's what, I mean. And that's like, that's the thing that I like kind of butted up against

once I watched it reading your text was like, I don't not get it in that environment. We're like, I would a thousand percent still call my family, but I think my family's pastor, someone of comfort, someone of like outside the circle, but close enough for like guidance. But I don't know if the one, but like the pastor that your husband just confronted because that's where I get hung up on it, because that's different. Yeah. This is where when Mads first was like, hey, I think maybe we should cover this case,

because I'll give everyone I think already knows that spoiler alert in episode three, Susie Skinner and J.P. get married. Yeah. I was like, so you're telling me that her husband dies and his wife die and now they're married. And everyone's okay with it. Huh?

What does? And Mads is like, yes. She's like, you got it, girl. It's like, okay, okay. So we kind of get, they touch on it so briefly. And I had been reading some articles and stuff like that dug into his death a little bit. And it was like, I guess he had been like supposedly, allegedly, allegedly making complaints to the community about like they're not being like proper access for people like in wheelchairs to be able to get to the pool. Why the pool, why that way?

Was it an accident? Was it intentional? because he's not being taken care of. He feels like the one thing he has is, like, no one knows. As far as I know, it's like I don't believe he left a note or told anyone. So we're left to just, it's just another strange thing in a case full of strange things. The strangest thing of all, though, was the like service about him, which I don't know if it happened before or after he died. Right.

So it's kind of confusing the documentary because they cut it. really close to the funeral service for Chris. Yeah. Like, it's not part of it. The stage is completely different. He's wearing a different outfit. But I think it was a different service. And I don't know if it's, again, to your point before or after.

But we don't know when it was. Yeah, you want to say what he says? I don't have the direct quote. Oh, I'm sure you do. I just have Hot Mama quote on my notebook. Yeah. If this guy can get this hot mama in a wheelchair, you have no excuse. I literally wrote, what?

What? Like, like, I think that's the moment when me and Alyssa, I literally just like paused and I was like, let's just sit with that for a minute. What? Maybe that was the moment that he was like, I think this guy might be coming for my wife. Especially if that, again, we don't know when that happened in time, especially if that happened prior to Chris's death. So also, like, you don't want people to be self-deprecating, but like, you're being a super. Yes. super I can't.

So, I don't think he's hiding anything. Like, again, if you're looking for it, I think that it's. Or Isaac, that can see. I think it's pretty obvious what's going on. And so this is when Micah gives him yet another ultimatum. But she doesn't leave. She does this contract, which I find heartbreaking. Because this happens.

all the time. I've seen this happen. And I don't really understand it. I think like, so she basically says, like, makes this list where it's like, hey, if any of this stuff happens, I'm out. I'm out. I know she told him that before. If you do it again, I'm out. Yeah. It's the line gets crossed. The line gets crossed. The line gets crossed. Well, I mean, honestly, the expectation is if you are in a committed relationship with someone. That's your promise. And you have like shared goals and outcomes for the relationship. None of that needs to be set. Yes. That's just the expectation and like the social contract between two people who love each other. But it's like this list of five things that's like if any of this happens again, like the first thing is like, you know, she gets the house. He promises to go on marriage retreats. They're going to do counseling weekly. He's going to honor her in any way with anything, any time. It says he'd even be willing to adopt a kid if that's what she wants. Smiley face.

I saw that. The thing I can appreciate about what she was probably trying to do is one of the ways she was being controlled was financially. If she left as a pastor's wife who had been in the church since she was 18 who had no career outside of the church, she was financially destroyed. She had nothing. So this point number one where it's like I want something written down. I mean, this document wouldn't have counted. But, like, I think she felt this was some kind of protection for her. And so, like, I am sympathetic to that.

Because I think part of me at first when I was like, like, what's a piece of paper? He doesn't care about your piece of paper marriage certificate. He doesn't care about any of that. Why do this? I think it's really easy to be that. But I'm like, she's trying. I think she knows it's going to happen again. And I think what she's trying to do is build herself any sort of life raft she can.

Yes, for afterwards. Because she knows it's going to happen again. She knows it's going to happen again. She knows it's going to be hard. And I think everything she was, like, scared of and anticipated is ended up, like, coming to fruition. Oh, this is the moment, too, where you get that, like, weird video of them in the car where he's, like, speaking in third person. And he's like... In and out of third person, by the way.

I, like, Alyssa was like, why was he speaking in third person when we watched it together? And I was like, huh. Yeah. And then when I watched it again, I was like, not all the time. Because he's like, someone at the first lady of the church. And she's like, who's the first lady of the church? And she's like, who's the first lady? He's like, you're the first lady.

And I was like, she loves the pastor. I was like, what is happening right now? I don't even know what that was. To me, that was a little bit like the crying on the grass video where I was like, actually, can we talk about that more? Yeah. I was like, I would love if someone could post the whole video. And give us some context of like, when this happened.

What? Like, yeah. Anyway. I don't know. And I don't know if it's in that video or somewhere else, but like we get this idea. And again, this is him. being the victim. And I think he, he became an expert at manipulating the people around him. But like, only in that bubble. Like the congregation, the people who like had his same worldview, a worldview that he built. But he makes himself the victim because, you know, why would you do this? Like you have everything. And he's like, I was scared you were going to leave me. Somehow it's like her fault that he continues to do these things. To make her want to leave. Yeah. And I like, like, I only reiterate it because I think this is such a common tactic with abusers is to make

themselves the victim over. And I actually think they do see themselves as the victim. Yeah. Maybe not carte blanche, maybe not everybody. But like, I think a large percent of them, for sure. Yeah. I don't. I think there are people who are just blatantly bullies and they know it. but I think there are other people who I like the best way I can describe it is like lie so much they start they start losing the truth like they no longer see the reality of like who is and is not the victim

their reality is completely broken by like the lies that they have not only told other people but they've told them so many times that they've begun to believe the lies themselves. In that video she's like what would you do to like get me back or keep keep me and I thought his answer was so interesting He says that I would put myself in a psych word until they release me.

And I was like, oh, to you, that's the worst possible punishment. The thing that you've already done to her. Yet that is the thing. And I was like, how telling the thing that you keep doing is the thing that you say is like, I would do anything to get you back. I would even put myself in a psych word because, my God, can you imagine? So the rest of the episode really is, again, we're diving into like his insatiable sexual appetite. And I would like to point out that we also hear a lot of these stories from Micah's friends, which again, like I would like to stress this is huge, especially the stories that she, that like they tell towards the end of this episode, which are harrowing in a way that I was not expected.

I was not prepared for it. Like, we get a lot more of his, like, preaching in this, too. I have a quote. He says, there's incredible danger in unmet needs. A fantastic marriage is simply this. My needs are being met today. Everything is about, like, his needs being met. When your husband wants sex, God does not send an angel from heaven to take care of that.

Like, basically, it's like, it's your freaking job. And he says, the sin that has most, the sin that has the most horrifying results in your life is sexual immorality. And he says denying sex. leads to sexual immorality. So like denying sex leads to one of the greatest sins. Oh, and this is where he was like, don't deny sex and then Satan won't be able to tempt you

because of your lack of self-control. And then, oh, he's like, a man doesn't want to be rejected more than once unless you repent for it. His heart gets hard. And I was like, boo, your hard heart is not the hard thing of you that I'm afraid about right now.

Like, what is happening? No, totally. And then my last quote from this, like these like sermons is when he was like, oh, what do he say? For now, at least. For now. The only reason a man would not want to touch or hold a woman is that man because he doesn't like her. The only reason he doesn't like her? Her mouth.

It's because of her mouth. Girl, we talk for a living. Get. I was shocked. Like, I think that up until this point, When we talk about the sexual abuse, I was thinking the abuse of him demanding four times a day, five times a day, sometimes what they talked about every single day. And if not with her, then someone. And that's terrible abuse. But what is described next is that he basically forces her into encounters with random people, that he pays those people, whether that's touching her. One of her friends describes, like, him paying something. to finish on her.

And like the way she said that Mike described it was like she didn't have enough like soap in the world. There was nothing she could do to make herself feel clean after that. In the documentary, they show her like journal writings. And one time she says at one point he picked up a couple of unhoused people for a threesome. It's like this was about degrading her, controlling her. I was just about saying like when I was watching with the list, I was like this is not inherently sexual for him anymore. This is him exerting his control and his power and showing her how much he can do to her. And she can do nothing about it.

And a lot of, we move into episode three and we get this like a little bit of backstory that leaves so many questions be answered. That pile, right? We'll come back to the pile. But there's this allegation that like maybe JP was abused. by his father. And that is what, again, when it comes to, like, him being a victim, like, that is what has caused him to be the way that he is. And so we hear that, like, his father, who was also a pastor, had gotten into some trouble, maybe in the past, but it was, like, very, very glossed over. Like, it was a quick, like, snippet in the show, and then they kind

moved on. So it's one of the things that I, like, dug into more later. But really, episode three is about her leaving, which we know is the most dangerous time in a person who's being abused life. We get a little bit of the timeline. This finally brings us up to the actual like day. And by this point, she has moved out. Now, what I found out is that she had apparently threatened divorce before or even even filed, but then like he convinced her to undo it, which is interesting because of some of like the asset stuff and what was happening. Convinced her to undo it. Then he goes to this other period where the stalking, the harassment doesn't stop.

I mean, this is we're finding out that he is putting tracking devices on her. He's following her. Slashing her tires. Slashing her tires. And again, like the, you know, there's like, I think 53 calls at one point. I mean, it is nonstop. She ends up moving out. She's going to live with somebody else.

He has her committed again. and at this time they're kind of vague and they're like they reference like oh he's like taking her stuff like maybe he's posting as her on social media to make it seem like hundreds of pictures they say of them together making everything seem like beautiful

and wonderful and like creating this image and they don't really talk about the other stuff like what was he doing with her stuff why did he take her stuff like in the documentary as I was watching I was like oh this is just about control I think it was about something else that I'll get to. But he has her committed.

She gets out again. Because it sounds like the doctors even realize, like, this is more of like a marital. Which I, that's what I, again, when I go back to like, what is this 1856? Like, back in the day when you're like, oh, my wife's hysterical. Just like lock her away.

How? And like, you might talk about this later, but like in the documentary, they do confirm that she does get a diagnosis of a form of bipolar. Correct? This is what. I was like a little, I think so.

Because I want to say there is at least one medical document that they show in the documentary that states that. But what I don't know. I don't know, like, how, what that document is. I know. That's where I was, that's where I, I am always so cautious, especially in something like this of like, oh, we saw one shot. So many times you can, if someone gives you a medical history to say this person has bipolar and that is not verified. Now, she's in these facilities, which should be verifying. I mean, on the flip side, like, I'm adopted, my kids are adopted.

Medical forms are a lot of fun for us because, like, I'm sure there are things in my medical history that I simply do not know about that can never be verified. And I just have to fill the form out as best as I know. And, like, that's how it is for my kids too. And on the flip side, like, you can also write that there are issues when no issues exist. And that's where I, like, without digging into her medical records, the way that her family spoke on the documentary, it seemed like they believed there was something. They also supported some sort of diagnosis. Yeah, but they're, I mean, they're very open in that, like, what led her to that? And, like, what are the contributing factors that if she had, like, these diagnoses, like, yeah, led to it.

You get it. So this brings us to, she filed, she dismissed. She is now done, done, super done. And this is where we meet my new hero. Regina Ward. Regina Ward. I also loved her. I'm so glad she's here.

I think everyone loves Regina Ward because she is her lawyer and we get her and she's like, I don't like anyone that tries to take advantage of, I think she said, the weak, the meek, the poor. And I was like, mm, mm, mm, she's her divorce attorney and she's not putting up with anything. And what she says, Regina Ward, heart, heart. Heart, heart. I said she made the hero well. So she, on behalf of Micah, files. And JP gets served on April 25th.

Two days later is when Micah dies. And the timeline, this is the crux of the case. It's like everyone, did she do it? Her family alleges in the documentary, like, they don't think that someone else wasn't involved. Like, they cannot let that go. But everyone, the police. have ruled it as suicide, the sheriff's office put out this, like, nifty proof. PowerPoint.

That has been shared with everyone that in their eyes explains everything. So what we have is that day she's supposed to go to work at like noon. That's what Diana says in the documentary. Diana is the woman she's living with. What I would love is like verification of that. What time did her shift start? Because what I find so interesting. is that why put on your uniform?

If you're not going to, and like she immediately does not go to work. She leaves at the time. 1138. You can correct me at any point in time. She leaves at a time where it's like, oh, depending on how far away her work is, like that's an appropriate time to show up for a 12 o'clock shift. So. 11.38. That we see on like a doorbell cam.

Leaves her apartment. 1212, she pulls into the pawn shop. This pawn shop is where the gun is purchased. Now, what I think is interesting is I mapped her apartment to the pawn shop. It's a 9 to 10 minute drive, but it's 34 minutes before she pulls in. So I don't know where she was. Why, like, was there another stop? Was it...

Did you map where she worked? I didn't do that. Was, yeah, did she... Just like, go to work first and then... But it's weird. So, but she gets, she pulls in. She's at the counter. I mean, she knew exactly what she was going in for.

She's at the counter at 1213. 1234, she's leaving the lot. Now, again, I don't know, did it take time? I assume they have to look at her. I hope they had to look at her ID to buy this gun. But, like, at 1234, she has to leave the lot. At 106, we pick her car up on a flock camera. And she's, like, driving in the direction of where she'll ultimately be found.

So it's 40 minutes from Dix to where the flock camera is. 127, she's at a gas station. And that, like, all kind of lines up. And then it's, like, 39 to 44 minutes from the gas station to the park. So I was, like, trying to do the math of, like, when she leaves the gas station. Like, does she go directly to the park? Yeah. And it, she should arrive if she goes right away.

And this is, like, per the other calculation, she's driving a little bit faster. But if she goes exactly, like, the speed limit, she should be getting to the park. And it takes a five-minute walk from where her car. was to the like the coordinates where she was found she should be at the coordinates where she's found at 221. The 911 call comes in at 254. There's time. Now there is a witness who has come forward or came forward later that was like I heard crying before I heard a shot. But we know the shot comes after she calls 911. So like I just again there's like missing time. Is this I'm sitting in my car? I'm building up the courage.

I'm sitting with what I'm about to do. Or is it something else? Her family has wondered, it's what they say in the documentary. We're like, was she lured there? Because also, why go? It seems like I think something that they say in the documentary is like, why here? Like, why would you go all the way out here so far that you have to call 911 to make sure people know where you are? I thought what I thought was interesting was it was like right over the state line.

Like it's in North, she's in North Carolina, which causes maybe jurisdictional issues. But I like, if what you want is for your family to find you and for this to be easy, why there? Because she does take the steps to help her family find her. Like she calls 911 so that her coordinates are like tracked. You hear her voice on the 911 call. She sounds home. Episode one opens with it. Starts with it.

I look. The most of the call that I could find, the most amount, is like two minutes and 30 seconds. So it also isn't just like, hey, here I am, about to do this. Hang up. It's two minutes of her trying to figure out where she wasn't at the very end. She says what she's about to do. And apparently hangs up before they can, like, they don't hear a shot or anything like that. Now, they bring up some stuff in the dock that I thought was interesting, which is like they find her body away from the shell casings.

They also mentioned two spent shell casings, which I can't find a ton of stuff about. But I'm like, the witness here's one shot. She has one shot. Like, she didn't shoot herself twice. Right. Where did this other one come from? And is it, like, obviously then you have all the questions. Like, are they casings from the same type of ammunition?

Like, do they belong to the same? Like, there's nothing. Is not in. Exactly. Is not in the police's PDF. The other thing, what is in here, I actually wanted to show you, is a picture of the inside of her car. And there was something that stood out to me. The same thing with like, why are you putting on your work uniform if this is your plan for the day?

She also packed her lunch. It's a sandwich. In a Ziploc. Like, that's a fresh sandwich in a Ziploc bag. Isn't that weird? That's really weird. These are the things that her family, it's not making sense to them. So naturally when this happens, her family is immediately suspicious because her sister,

one of her sisters says that Micah said, if I am found with a bullet in my head, I didn't do it. J.P. did. She has found with a bullet in her head. That that is, like, why say that and then do that too? So they have a ton of questions knowing that she, the two days before had filed for divorce. The church was going to break apart. Everyone said if the church broke apart again, everything that he had built, it was done, done.

This is like a very on crime junkie question. But they didn't address it in the doc that J.P. alibi. Like, I'm sure this is like somewhere in like the PowerPoint. But like they don't touch on that. At all. At all in the documentary, which I found really strange. And like it took everything in my being not to Google because I knew you were already working on this. So they don't talk about it at all, except for when.

the reporter from News Nation has like the one sit down with him. And he's like, I was at like the soccer game of the sporting thing. Like every, a hundred people saw me there that, that Saturday. Well, in this, his timeline that we get from the police PowerPoint, evidence PowerPoint, is from Friday the 26th to Saturday the 27th. So Friday, he goes to Charleston, South Carolina, for this sporting event. They say this is supported by eyewitnesses. So his claim that a bunch of people are there. Checks out. On Friday, though.

Yeah. A bunch of people are there. And on Saturday, so this is the day that she buys the gun and goes up to the park, what they have, the only thing that they've included is that they have him driving back to Myrtle Beach where they live. And they have flock cameras of his truck. Now, if you look at those like pictures, the windows are like black. I cannot see anything. Now, did I meticulously? map the coordinates and the time

for every single flat camera thing, I did. I did. I figured you would. And where... You didn't sleep last night, did you? Where this truck was is nowhere, like, it wasn't near the park.

Like, he couldn't have gotten the last flock sighting of the truck was at 222. And it's too far away to get to the park. Okay. So the truck is not there. What I find strange

is that if they're saying he has such a solid alibi, what they're not including for Saturday, the actual day that matters is any phone data, any, like, was anyone with him on that Saturday in that truck? When did he get home? Who saw him after? Like, to me, this is all really important stuff. And even beyond him, the other people connected to him. Yeah. Like, he is the only person talked about in this document, which I'll find interesting. We've mentioned him a few times and had questions, but like, where is Mark? And I do think that, like, Mark, not Mark, whatever.

There were other people who Micah felt like she was being followed by. Like, it wasn't just JP. So I think this is meant to tell everyone, like, there's nothing to see here. But to me, it's like, I have a lot more questions. It also doesn't include is like Micah's stuff because what it shows is, oh, she, you know, like looked how to get to the pawn shop. She looked up national parks near me. But it doesn't say what time those searches happened. It doesn't say what other things happened around there, like what calls she was making, who she was in communication with.

Or even like did she like sit in her parking lot in the parking lot at her apartment, like where she was staying? Right. Where was she for the work when she Googled the pawn shop? Was she still at the pawn shop when she Googled parks? They have to have. They have. They have. They have.

Like there's, we know that she's in these different places, but are these searches happening at those different places or was this like a long plotted out thing? And I think, again, I think people would say, well, you know, we're just worried about it. All the evidence proves it only being her. Why are we even talking about this? Well, then my question is, why was he trying to collect like all her immediately? The woman she was living with, I loved because she seemed. so sweet. Yes. And when as soon as JP called, I'm just going to come pick up her stuff,

she's like, um, I'm not sure if I'll be home essentially. And then called her siblings and was like, get over here and get it. And like, I want her Bible. I want her writings, her journals. And that I could make, you can write that off as like, oh, that's her husband. He just wants her things. It's when he calls the counselor she had been seeing was like, um, do you have some, do you have any notes? Can I get? I was like, that's not, that's not a thing. You collect. Oh my gosh. Alyssa, like, pause. She was like, he can't do that because HIPAA. And I was like, I bet you anything. She's a biblical counselor. She is. She said it. She said it. And I was like, she's like, well, because I'm a biblical counselor, I don't need no. Yeah. You know, that works too. That's when I was like, oh, boo, you're trying. And the way. And then he called, well, and then we get some of our best quotes from our new hero wall inductee. When he calls. Wait, we got to talk about the sermon first. Yes. Because the second she dies, he's notified on a Saturday.

And on Sunday, he's like, I'm still going to preach. And not only did he preach. He preaches the whole sermon as usual. I didn't realize he didn't tell them till the end. Yeah. And he is acting. Totally normal. Totally fine.

He's on the piano having the time of his life. They don't worry, do their entire parody song about. Oh, what was it like not finding something until the middle of your life? Or like, oh, in the middle of my life, I finally found what I was searching for. And I was like, what was that? And then at the very end. He's like, we're not going to have an altar call. We're not going to pray with you guys at the end.

Instead, I'm going to announce that my wife, Micah, has died. It was self-induced. I don't want you guys to... No questions, please. Ask questions. I want to talk to leave quietly, not talk to each other here on the property. and like just know that this happened. And like this is this is the point and Justin graciously reminded me that he was the one who was like, have you seen the sermon when this case initially happened?

This is when I remember seeing this case pop up was like, what is he doing? Because like again, like I've been in these services like when there's something to say like you you do have to like time it well. But this is bonkers. The fact that he was on the stage doing music that morning. The fact that he was on stage teaching that. morning. I think this also talks a lot to, like, speaks a lot to, like, the structure of the church. Like, no one was going to tell him he couldn't do this. Yeah. And so he got up and did the entire thing. Because he had to get out, he got out his narrative. And then he proceeded to do that

with everyone. The text messages he was sending people were, I mean, like, people talk about all the time, catch a liar when they're like over explaining where he's like, she has passed. I've been telling her for months. Like, oh, her family got involved. I'm like, oh, no. And also there's a moment where, like, you see him, you see some of the text messages that he's sending to, like, her friends or, like, people in their circle. And it's the same, like, he's copy-pasting because he can't keep telling different. Like, that's the only way he can keep his lies straight, right? Like, it was, it was just, like, so calculated. So, he is used to manipulating everyone in his circle.

Like, he can play the victim. He has them down, but not her. He cannot do that with this. Oh. who as an attorney tapes the call. Oh my God, I love her so much. And the call is so good. He calls and is like, hey, you were her, I think you were her lawyer.

So, and before he could even continue with his bizarre request, she goes, let's stop right there. You probably have the exact quote. I don't. I'm going to paraphrase. But she's like, you don't think she hired me. You know she hired me because you got served divorce papers two days ago. So let's just start off with the truth. Yeah.

And that's when I was like, she is my new. I want to be her when I grew up. She is my new hero. And he's like, yeah. You know what? I do recall. I think I did see her name. And then he's like, oh, he says, clearly, by the way, you've been talking to me.

You've gotten one side of the story. So this is when he's like, I'm going to get her on my side. That does not happen. And so when that doesn't work, he goes into the tears. It's like the same tiers that we got. on the grass, which distinctly I had this moment where I was like, oh, I, I've seen this before. And I want to play you a clip because I made myself chuckle. Okay.

So this is him to her. It's not a yours though, in the many times. There were the years before. And I was able to stop her and get her to get her daughter. He just said, hold everybody. So it's like the... Have you seen win or lose? No, but you've talked about this show so many times.

It's a kid show on Disney that I think is one of the best kid shows it's made in forever. And we get this moment. As soon as I heard that, I was like, what do you? Tries the tears. The tears don't work. He turns those off. To be clear, like coming back to like why he's calling... Regina Ward, Micah's

divorced attorney, is because he's like, I really need every single thing that she ever gave you supporting why she wants to divorce me. Yes. Like he's like, just get, why don't you just hand me her file?

Which is an insane thing to think would happen. Like, but. Attorney client privilege much? But yeah, I think he still thought he had a lot of authority because they were still married before she died,

which actually did give him a lot of authority. There's been a ton of legal stuff since. Now, luckily, she didn't turn her file over to him. She turned it over to the FBI. Along with, I mean, she downloaded like hundreds. 511 sermons. And that is when I was like, you.

I love you. And that's how, I mean, that's how we get this, like, treasure trove in the documentary and get such, like, real pictures of who Michael was in life, who JP is, like what he talks about in his sermons. So it is a little bit how the documentary leaves off is that there is some kind of FBI investigation. We hear from people, I guess I've been talked to. I do know the FBI got, and I don't know why for sure, but jurisdiction, because we're talking about two separate cases. Like, it's not surprising to me.

And he has now federal charges. Federal charges. And those are for. For lying to them during. Of course, their investigation. And then for cyberstocking. And those are still ongoing. Because he was just arrested in like December 2025.

Yeah. And they did a search of his home. So again, like computers, phones, like all of the things that I'm, I'm wanting, I feel. Exist somewhere in evidence. Yes. Now. Is there anything else that you want to talk about before I get to like my fun things? I don't know if you want to talk about the News Nation sit down where he brings out the

binder of his evidence, which like, evidence for what, sir? There's that weirdness. Yeah, it wasn't like, hey, I kept all her medical records. He was like, this is my evidence. And also, like, putting those things in those plastic sheet protectors is a pain in the ass. He put work into that. Wait, I didn't even notice that. They were in sheet protectors. They're in, like, those plastic slips. For me, it was the moment. He does the same thing, right, where he, like, tries to cry. But then I love this guy because he's like, what's going on? Like, he's like, I'm not going to, like, call it off just because you're crying. Like we're going to like.

Yeah, the guy interviewing him is like, there's something like your face is doing something, essentially. But then when he's like, when he asked. Is there anything you would have done differently? His reaction is like, that's a really good question. That's a really good question. That's a really good question. It's anger. And then he goes, I would never involve her family in any of her mental health problems.

Yeah. Okay. Out of all the things you could have said. I mean. And knowing what you did. to her. Like the blanket statement of us like, I wish I could have been a safe place for her. I wish I could, like, you could have done any sort of like blanket generic statement and like no one would have batted an eye.

But you come out with that. Yeah, I mean, I could. There's like a million more things I want to talk about. But what I want to talk about more is that stack of paperwork you just picked up. Yeah, I want to. So this stuff is known. It's not like I uncovered this. But for length purposes or legal purpose, I don't know why.

Netflix didn't include what I think is a handful of things that I found really interesting. So one of the biggest things that I, as I was watching this, I kept waiting for, right? Like I'm like, you get these sit downs of people. And I'm like, when are we getting his first wife? When are we getting out? Like, we get nothing. I understand not having anything about his kids in the documentary. Like they have nothing.

But I'm like, she's like very silent in this. So I was like, I mean, either she's, you know, without knowing anything. I was like, is she still like deep in this world? Is she like scared? I'm like, a man like this couldn't have been an ideal husband one moment and then a completely different person the next. And probably isn't like a joy to co-parent with. Yeah. So she has filed an affidavit back in 2020.

So this is when I think they were working out some like custody arrangements. When in 2024? Because that's also the year that Micah died. This is May. So this is, she's basically saying this is like right after Micah dies. She's like, I don't feel safe. And some of it is a little bit like, hey, he's getting all these threats too. Right.

I don't want my kids around that. But in doing so, she has to talk about all the concerns that she had. One of the things that I found really interesting is that she started in 2026. 15 as his assistant to pastoral duties, which is the same kind of role that he placed Micah in. Were they already married at the time? I don't know the year that they got married. It's not in this document. I would have to look it up.

So in this, she alleges, it says it's number seven in the affidavit. J.P. told me that in addition to his affair with Micah, he had employed prostitutes and been sexually inappropriate with several underage female members of our church. he blamed his immoral sexual behaviors on the sexual abuse that he experienced for years by his father, Wayne Miller. She says that when she found out about this, like these minors, she actually went to the police. And they're basically like, nobody's going to believe you because these minors don't want to come forward. You're like, you're divorced from this guy. You're talking about custody. Like, that's not going to like hold up.

So she's like, I couldn't do anything. But I did try to report it. And like, I want to pause for like a second and be like, minors. coming forward with abuse is already incredibly difficult. I feel like I've said this a lot. Like everything is very difficult. In this circle where your value is placed on purity,

where your value is placed on your body, and how much you are untouched, coming forward is... It's how they keep you quiet. That was in percent. Because it doesn't matter that you didn't want it. Right. As difficult as this is in general in any circle.

In these circles, it is. it is marking yourself unclean. It's marking yourself dirty. Even if you were assaulted and you kicked and screwed like whatever they perceive as no you are still less than.

Yeah. Whether it's said in those words or not it is heavily implied. And so like that's devastating. She talks about an occasion when she was picking up one of their kids that there were holes in their walls, there were hinges off the doors and pieces of paper taped to the wall

with negative affirmations about Michael. Now, he had, like, said her texts that were like, oh, I, just so you know, Micah punched those holes in the walls. I'm not like losing it or anything. But I'm like, oh, did she also write those, like, terrible things about herself? Doubt it. And she also has in here, when I talk about guns and stuff and knowing that, like, he was at least using them, there's a point in here where she says that he informed me that he was getting into buying guns and shooting. Then I read something that I thought was interesting. as a convicted felon, he is not allowed to have weapons. However, allegedly, he managed to get a police chief from the church to assist with expunging his record. Further, he was given a special police badge that says, pastor, is that a badge type? To utilize if he ever gets pulled over. This is deeply concerning when we want to talk about like a relation he has to authorities.

Let's back up. He's a convicted felon. Uh, yes. Four. So in 1998, he ran over a woman twice while she was like, she had like sand. I was doing something with sandbags or whatever. And so he got in trouble for that. And he has like other charges.

Like when I look at his like report online, there are like. Like background check or whatever. Yeah. There are like other things too. But like that's the big one, which I was like, I've. We did not even touch on in the documentary. I did not realize that this is that man's history. The other thing I did not realize is he was married to Allie, but, and they had their kids,

he had another relationship. I don't know if they were married. I don't think so with a woman before that and had another kid who was like a grown man at the time that all of this went down. Right, because like just, like I want to say they mentioned it in the documentary. documentary. When Micah and J.P. got together, I don't know if it was when they got married or not, but like the age split was like 21 and 36. Yeah, 15, yeah, he's like 15 years. He's like 15 years older than her. Yeah. So he has a grown son, which I can get to more, but like his son has a domestic violence. Like there, I found a news article that he was arrested in like January of 24 for domestic violence. So also an interesting person that like we don't even. Not even mentioned anywhere. Might not have anything to do with anything, but I was surprised to learn it.

One of the last things that Allison said that I thought was interesting is she says, I was married to JP for 16 years. Although my story and what I lived through with JP is different in some ways, many of the details shared with me by Micah, because Micah had been like confiding in her and asking for help, are so similar to my own experiences with JP that I know she was being truthful. So I'm sure there's someone out there who's like, oh, you know, Is she making up these stories or was she as she was trying to get divorced or whatever?

And you have you have Allison who is saying. So it's the same thing years. I know you're not lying. Yeah, because what you're describing didn't come out of the blue. Been there done that. Yeah. So she talks about his father, Wayne. Wayne is super interesting.

And this goes to like the creation of the church where I told you I saw all like the similarities. So he starts this church in South Carolina. the church ends up going on to have like a television network. It has a Bible college. It has a ministry overseas, which is just like one for one for one. When the church was founded, and maybe you don't know this, was it connected to denomination? Mm-mm. Okay.

So one of the things that they bring up when we talk about the structure earlier is this comes up in one of the lawsuit. That is, I know, my only papers. One of the lawsuit that is filed in 2025 is they're like, you'll hear these different entities reference, these like three different church names. They're like they're all the same thing. They're all owned and controlled by Wayne Williams' dad. I can think of three different names, but that's okay. And John Paul. And so a lot of the name changes came out of scandal.

Yes. Because so he had his first church. And there were this big expose where there were these sexual abuse allegations with young people. And when that happens, this is like the 80s. It's really easy. There's no internet. So they pack up. They moved to Myrtle Beach.

They called a different church. They have some congregation come, some new people, and they start over. And then there is another incident in which Wayne exposes himself to an undercover officer. And that's the one that we probably see the article. about in the documentary? I don't know which one they showed in the documentary. But then... Because there's like a news article where like he is named as like... The other one was in the news too because it was like this five-part investigative series that was done. This one seemed like a little bit more like a sting. So that sounds like more like this incident. So he gets in trouble for that.

And then I don't know when like solid rock becomes a thing. It's a little bit fuzzy to me. But then that's when JP, which I also think is interesting when they were talking about in the documentary JP becoming a pastor was like, oh, he just wanted to. like he's the pastor's son who, oh, they also had a school, which has someone who went to the school owned by my church. I was like, what in the heck? And the school, they were like, isn't super like accredited. It was, we'll get into that a second. But his dad has faced, even in like recent years, charges for, I think it was like a homeland security. What?

Dude, I can't make this stuff up. Hang on just a second. You have like invoices and emails and court docs. This is insane. Yes. The Department of United States for the District of the South Carolina of Florence Division, United States of America. Either way, he ends up pleading guilty to fraud in foreign labor contracting.

So basically he was bringing over people from other countries and promising them work within the church and just basically like not provide. providing them even minimum wage. They were getting like 25 bucks a day. They didn't have proper like housing. And he would basically even like the food was expired, which like, don't get me started on that. I know that sounds crazy to people. Do you know how much expired food we had in the church that was just like because it was free?

Yeah. But don't share the financials to know how much we're making because we apparently need expired food. And he would threaten them that if they. Deportation. Yeah. Yeah. So he is like, he is a hot mess in and of himself. There is this 2007 affidavit from his wife that I am dying to find where it is like referenced in different places where she talks about his control.

So this would be J.P's mom? Yeah. And she was like with him for a very long time. But she talks about his control over the family and over the congregation. And I would like love her perspective. So I get a lot of information. about the churches that and how it is structured because in 2025 two Jane Does came forward alleging sexual abuse that was allowed by J.P. and his dad, Wayne, basically in the church.

So Wayne and J.P. weren't the abusers. Yes. They were. Or like J.P. But like the. They brought this to the church to be handled. And JP and Wayne owned the church. I mean, that's the whole problem. But they do the church too because they're like board members. There's no safety checks.

You're not doing background checks. Right. You know. There's nothing to like prevent this from happening or to deal with it when this happened. Yet you're just allowing him. Access to people. Yeah.

And not putting anything in place. So basically in the Jane Doe number one case, she alleges that she has this encounter with him when she's older with John Paul, where he like sees her, like hugs her and like puts his hand down her pants. And she like confront like she like pulls him aside after and she's like, I mean, she's embarrassed. She doesn't want it. And she's like, what was that?

And he's like, oh, you know, oh, God, the quote. He brings in God again. He's like, ah, God knows like we sin or some. And I'll take that paraphrase. Thank you. And so she says that it like brings back. this repressed memory that she had from when she was 15 at the church and J.P. was 19. And he got her alone and she alleges he raped her in his truck. But to your point of how that would be viewed by the church,

she said she didn't know if anyone would believe her. She was mortified. She was and eventually completely repressed the memory until it came back. So, until it came back when she's assaulted again. Correct. So she files that one first. And then Jane Doe number two files. So this young woman says that J.P. was 19 or 20 in 1999. And he was a teacher at the school that the church ran. And this is where it talks about how literally they say there were people literally taken off the street and passed off as teachers. Like they didn't have. have to have, according to this, like accreditation or anything like that. And so JP at 19 is a teacher in this school. So in the fall of 1999, plaintiff was just 14 years old when her parents put her in the school. Yeah, Cathedral Hall Academy. It's not a school. It's a trap. Many of the staff were simply members of the church or colleagues with no credentials. And she has this interaction with J.P. where he's like playing the piano. He asks if she wants to. She declines. And as she's

turning to leave, he pulls her into a hug. And she didn't have time to react before his hands moved down her back, past her waist under her clothing and touch her bare butt. She's like, unsure of what to do, she told a teacher. Instead of receiving help, she was sent to Wayne's office. And when she arrived, J.P.'s already there. So just to be clear, like if she tells a teacher, The teacher is not only colleagues with the person that did this, but is also their boss. Right? Like, a teacher is employed by the school that is owned by the person who assaulted her and his father. Well, I don't think, you know, he's still the pastor's son at that point.

But yeah, it's all in the family. Yeah. So she gets pulled in the office where Wayne says, quote, you will not lie about my son. And she was forced to write the words, I will not lie about John Paul Miller, 5,000 times. And then this gets out and she is essentially bullied by everybody. Now, she is a slut. She is this, she is that. And her life is a living hell. She says the horrors of Cathedral Hall Academy were not just physical and sexual. They were psychological. Then this will hit extra close to home. One example she gives is when plaintiff brought a Harry Potter book to school, RWM and JPM, dragged her into the office. They berated her, called her a servant of Satan and told her that if she continued down this path, she would be ripped by demons. Then right in front of her, they set the book on fire. Rw.M, that's Wayne, then beat her with a Bible and poured water over her head. She was 16 years old. And again, these are allegations. And people wonder why I haven't seen Harry Potter. So he makes a counterclaim to that. To Jane Doe No, number two. And Janeo number one.

Okay. He basically has a response and has filed a counterclaim saying that these are lies. There were apparently social media videos. He wanted the judge to have those be taken down, bar anyone from talking about it. As far as I can see, these are still pending. Okay. Now, one of the last things that I want to get to, I mentioned was like this idea of why did he take all of her stuff? And yes, we know where J.P. was, but is J.P. the only person we should be looking at?

So one of Micah's sisters filed an affidavit. And in here, she says, Micah told me that there were people following her, keeping track of where she went. She thought that Mr. Miller had hired people to follow her. Mr. Miller later confirmed this during a sermon I watched. Now, they had kind of, like, briefly touched on this in the documentary. Yeah, because there's like a moment where they find a tracker on her car. And they're like at the police. And they see a car pull in and then like whip around and leave. Yeah, which might have been him. But this idea that it was people. This doesn't say John Paul and that he was hiring people too.

To me says, I don't, sure, I'm glad we know where his truck was. But like who were these other people that were involved? Who else was in his orbit? it and did police thoroughly look at them too? Did the FBI, if we're going to talk about cyber-stalking, even if that's the only thing we're talking about, like who else touched that case? Now, when she had filed for divorce the first time, I don't know, I don't know what his mindset was. Maybe his narcissistic brain really did want her back. But it also seems very calculated because he convinces her to not do it that first time. And then according to

her sister's affidavit, she is told by Micah that he starts moving assets. So if she files for divorce and it stays, like right now she still has those. She's going to get things. While they're still married, he starts moving assets in his name, such as the vehicle. He changed the deed to their house to the church, transferring interest in, and he also transferred interest in crocodile rocks to one of his sons, which I think is like this restaurant or bar or something. So he, he, he making moves. Now, the other thing she says is that prior to her admission to Wacama, which I think it was the mental health institution where she got institutionalized, when she got committed. So prior to her admission, Micah was gathering and sorting the evidence she had to bring an attorney

for filing for divorce to support her claims against Mr. Miller. And as to his abuse character, his paramours and associates he paid off or blackmailed. While at the facility, those documents, emails, files, etc., were removed from her phone, personal laptop vehicle, and purse and never recovered. Further, Micah was unable to access her iCloud account, email, or Facebook profile. Mr. Miller continued using at least one of Micah's accounts, causing any recipient to believe that it was Micah's communications. So.

And that's like in the documentary to reference, like where we are in time. That's when she's calling, she calls like 911 and is like, hey, my strange or like, we're separated. My husband is, I was in the hospital. He's taken all of my stuff. I need, like, can I report the stuff stolen? Right. And so to me, that was just like, oh, he took your stuff. It sounds like she was building a case for her divorce.

Against him. But again, I don't know what this is paying off and blackmail. Like, she was collecting evidence that then disappears because she gets institutionalized. The other thing her sister says is that Micah was intending to participate in additional missions because she did missions trips. She was even planning to live part-time in Kenya. Micah recently shipped some of her personal items to Kenya in preparation for her stay there. I understand why the family is so taken aback by this. This is the document where she says that she was fearful that she wouldn't make it to the divorce.

And she, according to her sister, said, if I end up with a bullet in my head, it was not by me. It was JP. She's making plans. She says this. She's building this evidence against him. That evidence goes missing. Once she dies, he's trying to collect anything else that might remain. It's, I get. I get the questions. I get the questions. I've had questions since I heard about this case. But I feel like the more that I've learned. about it, the list of questions has only grown. So what now? I don't know. His hearing for cyberstalking, making false statements to an investigator, that is set, I think, right now for October. And I think a lot of people are going to be watching. I know we talked about a ton of, like, very tough topics. So for anyone who is listening or watching, we're going to put a bunch of resources

in the show notes, including something on religious trauma. Yeah, for sure. Maybe I should take advantage of. And there's also going to be some information about Micah's law. One of the things that her family is trying to change is how the state of South Carolina views allegations of abuse or harassment, like within a married couple, because there was a lot of stuff that they felt like police couldn't respond to because of the fact that J.P. and Micah were married. So if you want more information on that, you can check out that in the show notes as well and see how you can. can support.

Crime Junkie is an audio Chuck production. I think Chuck would approve.