Crime Junkie - MURDERED: Shawn Edwards Part 2

Episode Date: June 27, 2022

After years of rumors, gossip and dead end leads, the investigation into 14-year-old Shawn Edwards’ murder heats up – but even a shocking confession can’t close this cold case.Anyone with information about the homicide should call Middletown Police at 845-343-3151.Google Earth: Shawn Edwards For current Fan Club membership options and policies, please visit https://crimejunkieapp.com/library/. Source materials for this episode cannot be listed here due to character limitations. For a full list of sources, please visit https://crimejunkiepodcast.com/murdered-shawn-edwards-part-2/

Hi, crime junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers, and I'm back with part two of our investigation into 14-year-old Sean Edwards, whose bewildering and vicious murder remains unsolved to this day. If you're just tuning in, go back and listen to part one, because if you don't, you're going to be totally lost. And I can almost promise you, this is a story that you've never heard, and I can definitely promise you it's one that you don't want to miss. When we left off last time, the investigation had stalled after more than a year of rumors, gossip, and dead ends. But a ruthless and unrelated robbery is about to heat up this cold case. It's late at night on Saturday, June 27th, 1987, when Middletown police are summoned

to a condo. The complex is like a five-minute walk from where Sean's family lives. But this call has nothing to do with Sean's unsolved murder. This is about a robbery. A woman and her adult son were home when the doorbell rang at around 11 p.m. She answered and was flung backwards as two men rushed in. Only one of them wore a mask of some kind, and he attacked her son. The man who came after her didn't bother to hide his face. According to court records, her attacker hit her in the head and then dragged her up the stairs by her hair, where he made her walk around on all fours. He had a gun to her head and told her that he was going to kill her. But then he and his partner just ransacked the

house. The men were looking for money, jewelry, anything they could get. They must have known that she and her husband, who was out at a race track that night, owned a successful local business. After they stole whatever they could, they put her and her son in the basement, traumatized beyond belief and injured, but alive, and then they fled. It only took a few days for police to track down one of the men, the guy who wore a mask. And sure enough, not only did he know about the victim's business, he used to work for them. Once he's in custody, he tells investigators that it was his partner's idea, and that partner is none other than Joey Salgado. He agrees to testify against Joey. He also tells

police the guns that they brought into the condo were tap guns that they had stolen from a department store right before the robbery. Joey is 18 by this time, and police have had their eye on him as a possible suspect in Sean's homicide since pretty much day one. When the cops bust him, Joey says that he didn't rob anyone, but he knows who did. He claims that he saw two guys who he met through a man named Nelson. And he said they were on a bus heading to Manhattan, and those two had all the stolen jewelry with them. Now remember, Nelson is the Colombian drug dealer who was rumored to be behind Sean's murder. But listen, no one buys Joey's story about the guys on the bus, and on July 7th,

he and his friend are indicted on multiple counts of assault, robbery, and burglary. They're facing more than two decades in prison, so over the next few months while he's in jail awaiting trial, Joey tries to make a deal. He tells the DA's office that he'll give them an eyewitness account of Sean's murder if he can have immunity from the robbery charges. According to an article in The Times Herald Record by John Scabelli and John Milgram, Joey claims that he saw a Middletown drug dealer stab Sean in the stomach. The drug dealer isn't named in any news coverage that we could find, but investigators told our reporter Nina that he's referring to Nelson. In fact, Joey agrees to wear a wire and go

to Nelson's apartment. He tells police that he'll try to get him to confess, but it doesn't go as planned. Investigators say that Nelson doesn't admit to anything, and during their conversation Joey starts yelling that Nelson has a knife or a gun or some sort of weapon and he runs out of the apartment. Ultimately, the DA won't cut a deal with Joey. It sounds like he doesn't think his information is credible. But police are still interested in him, especially after they hear that he occasionally wore steel-toed boots, which some investigators think might have been used as a weapon in Sean's murder. And in October of that year, they find out that the boots have actually been sitting in a shoe repair

shop for a while. Police think it's their lucky day until they pick up the boots. They're not steel-toed after all, they're just work boots. Detectives still send them to the FBI for lab testing, along with some of Joey's clothes, but they don't learn anything from the results. Well, then they hear another rumor that Joey has been telling a cellmate that police will never find the steel-toed boots because he left them at a relative's place in Georgia. So detectives actually head down to Georgia to check this out. But all they find is another guy from Middletown who knows Joey. It doesn't look that they can verify that he went to

Georgia, let alone left these mysterious boots behind, and so they come back empty-handed. Joey meanwhile gets in more trouble when he's indicted on another charge, witness tampering. According to court records, a man who heard him planning the robbery and ID'd him to police said that Joey told him that he should kill him for picking him out of a lineup. In the end, Joey pleads guilty to robbery and burglary. His friend also takes a plea. And Sean is mentioned during at least one court appearance. A defense attorney for The Friend indicates that Joey was the ringleader in the home invasion. And to bolster his argument, the lawyer references newspaper articles about Joey being somehow involved in Sean's murder

and says, quote, there have been allegations with regard to running a homosexual drug ring. End quote. Now, unfortunately, we couldn't find those articles in the microfilm archives. But that quote unquote homosexual drug ring probably refers to Nelson, who investigators say is gay. There are rumors that Nelson used to use drugs to lure younger guys or even teenage boys into his web. One cop referred to him as the Pied Piper. Now, even if that's what Nelson was doing, there's no indication that Sean was one of those boys. But Nelson always seemed to be somewhere in the mix when it comes to rumors about his homicide.

As for Joey, while he's in the county jail waiting to be transferred to prison, he runs into an old friend, Eddie Devlin. That's the other guy that police thought could have been involved in Sean's murder. According to Times Herald record reporter Julie Campbell, Eddie is in there for robbing a local motel. And it's not just Eddie and Joey. Police bust Nelson on a drug possession charge. He's sent to prison in 1988. John Fig Lucy or as detectives call him Mr. Fig is sent back to prison on a parole violation around this time as well. Even Mr. Fig's wife pleads guilty to drug charges. Court records show she admitted she sold cocaine to an undercover officer, but says she was only involved in that through

her quote, male partners. Now, Cynthia Edwards, Sean's mom thinks that police used her son's case to go after people that they wanted for other crimes. Like rather than focusing on Sean, they used his murder to justify targeting drug dealers in the community. But investigators say that it's common for there to be overlap in these sorts of cases. And the big time dealers are more likely to be involved in homicides because they have a lot to lose. Either way, the 1980s end on a quiet note with a bunch of early suspects behind bars, but no justice for Sean. And while there are still some rumors flying around, the leads have dried up again and the case is cold. And that's how it stays until October of

1992, when a routine interview yields a shocking confession. On Wednesday, October 7th, 1992, Detective Barry Bernstein gets a call from his partner who has another lead for them to follow. An informant had told police about a guy named Timothy Fairweather who might know who killed Sean. Timothy's family lives in Middletown and he was 15 at the time, so it's not a stretch to think that he might know something. He's 22 years old when police approach him at his home and he agrees to speak with them right away. Detective Bernstein says he doesn't even ask what it's about, he just grabs a jacket and off they go to the station. When they're settled in, the detective asks

Timothy if he knows why he's there, and he says he doesn't. So investigators tell him that they think he might have intel about Sean's murder. Timothy puts his head down and he says he wants to ask them a question. If he held Sean Edwards while his friends killed him, could he get in trouble? Detectives cannot believe what they're hearing. They go out in the hall for a minute to just collect themselves because this is it, this is the break that they've been waiting for for more than six long years and it's finally happening. Back in the interview room, they asked Timothy to tell them everything, starting with the names of the friends that he was

with. He says there were two of them, Joey Salgado and Eddie Devlin. According to Times Herald Record reporter Tristum Corden, Timothy says Eddie called him at home a couple of days before the murder and told him that he needed help beating someone up because the person had quote, ripped off a cocaine dealer and quote. Now, based on what investigators told us, Nelson is the dealer they're talking about. So in the early morning on Thursday, January 16th, 1986, Timothy met up with Joey and Eddie behind Middletown High School. Timothy says that he thought there was going to be a gang fight, but only Sean showed up. Joey and Sean got into an argument and Joey pushed him, so Sean ran. And before Joey and Eddie

took off after him, Joey told Timothy to run around the other side of the school and cut him off. By the time Timothy caught up with them, Joey and Eddie had Sean on his knees and they were kicking and punching him. So Timothy started doing the same. And then he held Sean down while Joey pulled out a knife and quote gutted him. That very afternoon, detectives bring Timothy to Middletown High School. They want him to show them exactly what happened. And he's right in the ballpark. I mean, he's not totally spot on, but he seems to know stuff that only someone who was really there could know. And I mean, in their minds, listen, this happened years ago. Maybe he forgot some details. Plus it was

dark when Sean was killed. I mean, to them, bottom line, this kid is confessing. Back at the station, Timothy draws a map and a diagram of what he says happened. He signed a statement and even writes an apology to Sean's parents, which says quote, Dear parents, it was supposed to be a fight. I didn't do it. I am sorry. End quote. Timothy is charged with second degree murder and sent to jail without bail. And on Friday, when he appears in court with his lawyer, Dennis McCormick, Cynthia finally gets her first real look at one of her son's alleged killers, a short, stocky guy with longish, dirty blonde hair and a patchy beard and mustache. She can feel rage bubble up inside of her. Time hasn't

done anything to heal her wounds. It's like it just happened yesterday. At least now she has a focus for all of her pain and her anger. It's Timothy's face she's focused on. But the thing is, it's not a face she recognizes. She's never even heard the name Timothy Fairweather. And her son certainly never mentioned him before. So as much of a relief as it is to see someone being held accountable for Sean's murder, there's also disappointment because the prosecutor announces that since Timothy was only 15 at the time, he's going to be tried as a juvenile offender. So he's facing a maximum of nine years to life in prison rather than the 25 to life that he'd be facing as an adult. After court, the lawyer, Dennis

has a chance to sit down with Timothy in jail. His lawyer's main concern is the confession. Actually it's pretty much his only concern because apparently there's no other evidence linking Timothy to the crime. So the first thing he asks him is, what exactly did you tell police? Timothy doesn't remember much about their interview, but he's clear on one major point. He says that he didn't have anything to do with Sean's murder. He says he only confessed because he thought if he told police what they wanted to hear, he'd get out of there. And it turns out Timothy didn't give detectives much at all in terms of factual details. Like they said that Timothy told them things that only someone who was

there could know. But Timothy's lawyer, Dennis says that they can't say what those specific things actually are. Plus the statement that he signed is just one page long. It's more of a summary than an in-depth verbatim account of what was said. And there's also nothing laying out how the statements came to be. For instance, Dennis doesn't know if Timothy brought up Joey and Eddie without any prompting or if detectives like asked them, are these the two specific guys involved and then he just agreed. Detective Bernstein told us that it was Timothy who offered up the names. He says police never mentioned Joey or Eddie until after Timothy brought them up. Now, mind you, while all of this is happening,

Eddie and Joey haven't been charged with anything in relation to Sean's murder and detectives are actually busy tracking them down. Now, in Joey's case, it's easy. He's still in prison for the robbery, but he won't talk to police and he basically tells them to go f off when they come calling. Eddie, meanwhile, had spent three years in prison for a motel robbery. And not long after he got out, he moved down to Florida where his parents lived. So the day after Timothy's confession, police are on a plane. Detective Nicholas DeRosa touches base with the local sheriff in Florida and learns that Eddie, who's now 25 at this point, is working as a mechanic at a Chevy dealership. When

he walks into the garage, Eddie turns around and sees him. And then he starts laughing. And are we really doing this again kind of laugh? Because back when Sean was murdered, the detective had spent hours questioning Eddie and nothing came of it. But now it's time for another round. In an interview with reporter Julie Campbell, Eddie says that police tell him over and over again that they know he was there when Sean was murdered and they want him to testify against Joey. But Eddie sticks to his story. He tells detectives that he cannot be a witness to something that he did not see and he wasn't involved. He says that he didn't even know Sean. Eddie also says that he doesn't know why Timothy

told police that he was involved, except that the two of them just never got along. They actually got into a fistfight in school in 1985. But Eddie says that that was the last time they saw each other until like 91 at a bar where they exchanged a look but didn't even speak. A lieutenant at the sheriff's department in Florida offers to give Eddie a polygraph and he agrees. When he's done, the person conducting the polygraph says that in his opinion, Eddie is telling the truth. Police don't have enough to charge him with anything. And back in New York, despite his unwillingness to speak with detectives, Joey also agrees to take a polygraph and he passes too. So no charges for him either. That same

day, Timothy's case goes to a grand jury and he's indicted on a second degree murder charge. But by now, Dennis has already started to build a really strong defense because Timothy's mother is certain that in January of 1986, Timothy was actually in a youth group home called St. Cabrini, which is an hour away from Middletown. Timothy was apparently sent there because he was getting into some trouble, but he hadn't been arrested or anything back then. So we're not talking about a high security setup. I mean, still the kids who stay there are monitored and his lawyer realizes that this could be the answer to their prayers. He subpoenas the records from St. Cabrini and sure enough, he sees that Timothy's placement

there went from December 30th, 1985 through January 31st, 1986. Dennis is now totally convinced that Timothy's confession was bogus. But the records he has won't be enough to satisfy the court. They're general placement records. There's no documentation proving that Timothy was there when Sean was killed. So it's time to get the DA's office on board. Of course, prosecutors want more information. So they send an investigator of their own to the facility to dig deeper. The DA's investigator manages to get more detailed records that show not just placement, but hourly bed checks on the day of the murder. Dennis pours through the records as fast as he can. But in the meantime, a preliminary hearing is held where

police dispute the defense's claims that Timothy's confession was coerced. Detectives who testify say Timothy wasn't scared at all. He was totally calm when they spoke with him and they were too because they didn't think that they were interviewing a suspect. But Dennis says that with a guy like Timothy, police wouldn't have had to be wildly aggressive to get him talking. He was very compliant and it would have been easy to press his buttons. An article by police interrogation expert Richard A. Leo in the Journal of the American Academy of Psychiatry in the law says that people who are highly suggestible or compliant are more likely to falsely confess. Highly suggestible people tend to be unassertive

and have higher levels of anxiety. And those and other personality traits can make them more vulnerable to interrogation pressure. Timothy could fit the bill, but maybe that doesn't even matter. Maybe those group home records will be all they need to prove that he wasn't involved. According to Tristam Corden's reporting, the St. Cabrini records state that all 43 youths were in their beds from the night of January 15, 1986 through the next morning. They were checked on every hour from 1-9 a.m. And in that important time window of like 4-6 a.m., staff noted that everyone was asleep and the cottage was clean and quiet. But it might not be the solid piece of evidence

the defense thinks it is. That's because a St. Cabrini staff member who was on duty at the time testifies at the hearing. And according to Detective Sergeant Jason Jennings, the man admits that he had been caught sleeping on the job once before. And his supervisor told him if it ever happened again, he'd be fired. So as for the group home records being indisputable proof that Timothy was nowhere near Middletown, investigators have their doubts. But his lawyer doesn't agree. He says the attendance records placed Timothy at St. Cabrini continuously through the entire month of January in 1986. So if prosecutors want to move ahead, they're

going to need to show that the facility's records are wrong. Not just around the time that Sean was murdered, but a couple of days before that when Timothy said that Eddie called him at home to arrange the whole thing. The DA realizes his office probably won't be able to tear apart Timothy's alibi. But there's one more thing that he wants before he just dismisses the murder charge. He asks for a polygraph. Under most circumstances, a defense attorney is not going to urge a defendant to take a polygraph. But this is not most circumstances. Not only is Dennis convinced that a polygraph won't hurt them, he thinks it's going to be the thing that saves Timothy.

So on Saturday, October 17, Timothy is brought in from jail to a library in the DA's office. While he answers questions, his lawyer, Dennis, Timothy's mom, the DA, and the investigator wait in another room. There's some nervousness in the air. Even though the defense thinks this will go their way with the polygraphs, I mean you can never be 100% sure. But Timothy finishes up, and right then and there, they find out he passed. That Monday, after 12 days in Orange County jail, Timothy walks out a free man. The DA tells the public that at this point there is no indication that Sean was murdered because he was involved with drugs in some way. So

police are back to square one. Detective Bernstein wants to keep going. Maybe track down other group home employees, formally interview them, even polygraph them. But the chief tells him it's time to move on. The charge was dismissed, that's it. Cynthia tries to wrap her head around the latest development. I mean, in less than two weeks, there went from being three people potentially facing charges for her son's murder to none. It is a roller coaster ride that she never wanted to get on in the first place. And as much as the Edwards family has been trying to move forward, it's almost impossible to do while they're still being bombarded

with rumors. Especially because many of the people who share info have an ulterior motive. Like if someone is mad at a neighbor, they'll tell Cynthia the neighbor might have had something to do with Sean's murder, hoping that she'll pass it along to police. This goes on for years. And in October of 1999, that's when a new lead comes in. A man who just retired from the Middletown State Hospital tells police that one of the psychiatric patients, a guy named William, used to threaten to kill staff members, quote, like he killed Sean Edwards, end quote. Because of HIPAA laws, the man hadn't been able to come forward when he was an active employee, but he wants police to know about

it now. Investigators subpoena the hospital records, and when they managed to gather everything a few months later, Detective Jerry Mishk goes through the hundreds of pages, at least 10 thick binders, all of it dealing with staff's daily interactions with William. But there's nothing in the records implicating him in anything. And William was actually staying in the hospital at the time of the murder. He was occasionally allowed to leave on a day pass, but he couldn't just come and go as he pleased. He wouldn't have been able to wander around at 5 36 a.m. And Detective Mishk says there's nothing indicating William was ever missing from the hospital. So that's it for that lead.

But by now, technology has advanced considerably since Sean was killed. So in March of 2000, Middletown detectives meet with the state police forensics team for a case review. And here's where things get messy. For one thing, we don't know who handled or packaged the various pieces of evidence, because Sergeant Jennings told us that he couldn't find records detailing the chain of custody. A second issue is, at least some of the evidence, including Sean's bloody clothing, was preserved in plastic. According to a forensic scientist and crime scene expert, George Skiro, any evidence that's damp or wet needs to be air dried completely and then packaged in unused dry paper containers. If it's left

in plastic for more than a couple of hours, the evidence can be altered or destroyed because fungus or mold can start to grow. And listen, it's not like this was unknown science back then. A law enforcement investigations guide that was publicly released by the army in late 1985 says that damp garments should never be put in plastic bags because there's almost always rapid biological change. But I don't know how readily available this information was back then, especially to smaller departments. And I don't know what the common day to day practices were. But based on the condition of Sean's evidence, the forensic pathologist tells Middletown that it's not clear if their lab will be able to get any DNA results.

Although it does seem like the lab was able to pull something. There was apparently a small sample of unidentified DNA found on a piece of evidence. But we don't have any details about that. And that's because of the third issue. We don't know the results of a lot of lab testing that was conducted because those records also can't be located. Last we heard Middletown was waiting on state police to get back to them with copies of the results. And they were also in the process of digitizing everything that they do have in Sean's case file, which is at least four huge boxes of records. So maybe they have these documents and just weren't able to find them when we spoke with them? I don't

know. Why they aren't digitized or why these important facts aren't more diligently passed down or recorded in some other way is a more systematic problem that I honestly see across a lot of departments. At any rate, during that case review in 2000, the forensic pathologist shares some insight that bolsters the position many of the detectives have already taken, which is that considering Sean's athletic abilities, there was probably more than one assailant. She also tells them it might be worth it to get a bloodstained patterned expert to look over the crime scene photos, which they do. That expert says it looks like Sean was standing up when he was stabbed based on the cast off bloodstains on the wall behind

him. I'm sure you guys know this, but cast off blood is droplets that are thrown or transmitted onto a surface from a moving source of blood, so a bleeding victim or a bloody weapon being swung around. With the evidence, it seems like all is not lost, because in 2002, after hearing about a new technique that uses gold dust to get fingerprints off clothing, Detective Misch starts making plans to submit Sean's football jacket for testing. It's hard to get fingerprints off fabric at the time. Only two agencies were doing this, the US Secret Service and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. It takes almost a year to get it set up, but in March of 2003, Secret Service performed the test. But after all of the work that went

into making it happen, police are disappointed when it yields nothing. But that same year, police get a tip that once again brings their attention back to Joey. A confidential informant says that the knife used in the Sean Edwards homicide is in a house that Joey's mom owned before she passed away, specifically in an air duct in the basement. And listen, if you're like me, you're like, hold up, I thought we already found the knife handle at the scene. Wouldn't that have been the murder weapon? But police were never able to definitively conclude that anything found at the crime scene was used as a weapon. So this lead could be huge, especially because some investigators are still convinced that

Joey has a hand in this somewhere somehow. So the new owner of the house agrees to let police have access to the basement. Feeling hopeful, officers go down there. They open up the air duct and they find dust. Another dead end. Then in 2007, Detective Misch interviews someone about Sean, who says that that whole rumor about Sean stealing cocaine from Nelson was a garbled version of telephone. He says that he himself was actually the one who stole the cocaine from Nelson's drug business partner. It's just one of the many bizarre turns this investigation has taken in the 36 years since Sean's murder. But it honestly makes sense and confirms what everyone has been saying

all along that Sean had no involvement in drugs whatsoever. For the Edwards family, it has been decades of questions and grief and even fear because at times the family would get harassing phone calls where the caller would tell them that killers got the wrong sibling and it should have been one of them who got murdered. They never figured out who was calling or if the calls were really connected to Sean or just a terrible hoax. They tapered off and eventually stopped. So Cynthia thinks it was someone just screwing with their heads. Although why someone would take the time to do that is just beyond me. But get this, Cynthia had a notebook where she'd write down all of the rumors and stuff people told her about

Sean and at some point she says someone broke in through the back door of her house and they actually stole that out of her filing cabinet. And that's the only thing they stole. I don't know if she reported it because Cynthia and Sean's sister Kimberly said that over time they really lost faith that police cared to help them. They felt like they were fighting an uphill battle alone and they've had bad experiences with several different investigators. Police say that they've spent thousands of hours trying to get to the bottom of Sean's murder and doing everything they can to catch whoever's responsible. Behind the scenes they tell us that the investigation is still active. It's cycled through multiple detectives

as people have retired, including almost everyone Nina interviewed. The newest investigator, a man named Andrew Rosen says that the investigation has taken two different directions that police are now focusing on. One is still drug related, whether Sean himself was involved in drugs or if he was just friendly with people in the game police aren't sure. The other direction is that Sean found out about something that someone didn't want him to know. Exactly what that is, we don't know. All detective Rosen would say is that it's related to some sort of illegal activity. Again, not that Sean was necessarily involved in it himself, but he might have known about it. Maybe whoever did this thought he was going to tell people

something, which if you remember is kind of what people have been telling Kimberly for years and it could help explain why Sean was afraid in the time leading up to his death, why he was carrying around a weapon. There are still a lot of different theories among retired and active cops. Some think Sean's murder was planned from the beginning. Others think it started as a fight and then escalated. To Cynthia, the brutality of the attack makes her think it was deliberate. Someone wanted her son to die. And with advancements in technology, especially forensic genealogy, police say they're optimistic that they'll be able to learn more from the evidence they do have. In fact, detective Rosen says that there

are plans in the works for more lab testing. Police have also developed potential new suspects, some of whom were not on the radar during the early investigation. They're being pretty tight lipped when it comes to naming them or discussing them at length. But they did say that several of these people are connected in some way, either loosely like they know each other or more directly like they might have worked together to kill Sean. As far as older suspects and persons of interest, we tried to track down Timothy Fairweather, but we couldn't find any contact for him. But Nina managed to reach his mother, who said that he wouldn't be interested in speaking with us. None of the phone numbers that we

found for Eddie Devlin worked, and other people have passed away, including Joey Salgado, John Figlussi, Mr. Fig, and Nelson. Actually, it looks like Nelson was deported at some point and police heard that he was later killed in Columbia. The good news about some of the newer suspects is they're still alive, which means that if they are responsible, they can be held accountable for murdering a child who is still so missed so many years later. To this day, Kimberly has such a clear picture of Sean, the way he looked the last time she saw him alive, lounging on the couch, happy, that big grin on his face, but she's also haunted by another memory. Sean in a casket at his funeral just a few days after that.

Cynthia doesn't understand how this could happen, and the grief that she carries in her heart is always there, and it has been from the moment that she learned her son had been killed. She told us, quote, I didn't let them roam the streets. They had a curfew to get home before dark. He's the last kid I ever thought that would happen to end quote. Let's help this family get some small measure of comfort. Someone out there knows who is responsible for Sean's murder. So if you have any information about this case, please call the Middletown police at 845-343-3151. If you want to see photos and our source material for this case, you can visit our

website crimejunkiepodcast.com. Make sure to follow us on Instagram at crimejunkiepodcast, and I'll be back next week with a brand new episode. So, what do you think Chuck? Do you approve?