Crime Junkie - MYSTERIOUS DEATH OF: Shawn O’Brien

Episode Date: June 26, 2023

When Shawn O’Brien is found unconscious in his Cranston, RI, apartment and dies days later in the hospital, the unusual circumstances spark suspicions of foul play. But the investigation quickly stalls out, leaving a grieving family searching for answers on their own.If you have any information about the death of Shawn O’Brien, call Cranston Police at [phone], or submit an anonymous tip here.You can also email Shawn’s daughter Natalia tips at [e-mail]. She’s offering a $1,000 reward for information leading to an arrest in her dad’s case.Visit the Justice for Shawn website or Facebook page for more information. You can learn more about The Good segment and even submit a story of your own by visitingThe Good page on our website! Did you know you can listen to this episode ad-free? Join the Fan Club! Visit https://crimejunkieapp.com/library/ to view the current membership options and policies.Source materials for this episode cannot be listed here due to character limitations. For a full list of sources, please visit: https://crimejunkiepodcast.com/mysterious-death-shawn-obrien/

Hi, Crime Jenkies. I'm your host Ashley Flowers. And I'm Britt. And Britt, it's good to be back. I know. I know. I know. There's been no interruption for listeners because we are freaking professionals. We're never going to miss a week for you guys. We're going to miss for this. Yeah. And honestly, I, like, so I know you didn't miss an episode

when I was gone in London and I, this is probably coming out actually even later than I got back. But Britt, when you and I are here, I have not talked to you in like a full week and a half, which feels like ages. Yeah, I mean, between you being gone and the time difference. I mean, it's, hi, I miss you. I miss you too.

And I know I wasn't there for long, but I've literally, I swear, my inner thoughts have a British accent and I was so tempted to just do the full show in my British accent. Do I need to remind everybody of Australian accents and us and there is a lot of that. So long ago. We need to put. We need to put. Yes, if it's not, I know it's in the fan club.

We'll have to post it on our Instagram. You guys have to go check it out. My British have to, you know, it's so painful and cringe. But my British accent I swear is like on point. And it's awful. Well, I think what makes it even better is Baby David, who by the way, I think half the listeners think David Flowers is my husband.

David, Baby David Flowers is my baby's brother. Which is why we call him Baby David. We were like, we were like, you were his baby. Yeah. I was his second mom, more than his sister. So I'm gonna actually put this, we're gonna put two things on social media. I'm gonna put this cringy, cringy,

Australian accent blooper from years ago. You're welcome. I also wanna see how many people thought he was my husband. So you'll have to go to Instagram for that. And I'm so sorry, I know this is more banter than quite literally we have ever done. But one more thing before we get to the show, I do wanna give a quick shout out to the crime junkies that I got to meet in London.

I did this little meet up for some of our longest running UK fan club members in the highest tier because legit, they are the ones who got us here, you guys. Yeah. And it was an unbelievable get together. I mean, I got to meet so many amazing people. I got to hear all of their stories. We laughed together. I mean, we cried together. I gave them the? I got to hear all of their stories. We laughed together. I mean, we cried together. I gave them the inside scoop on what's been happening

in the darling Holst case since the series wrapped. It was magical. It was perfect. Oh, real quick. I know this is like, so not crime junky, but I promised I would say hi to Barbara's mom. Hi, Barbara's mom. I'll say hi too. I can say, listen, from different countries, and it's like this thing that they have together her mom super into the show. I think this is literally our first and only high shout out in five years. So you are something special Barbara's mom.

I love that. I'm going to get to the episode, but I seriously had such an amazing time meeting people, meeting all of you on the other end of the headphones. And there were so many touching stories. It was like one giant segment of the good. And I'll just tell you one like this one precious fan. I don't want to name her for privacy. But she was literally in tears telling me how our show helps her because she suffers from panic attacks. And when it happens in public, she puts on crime junkie and you and I get to be her friends and keep her calm

and keep her in a good space. I will never not be shocked at how many people out there use this show, use us to help with issues like panic attacks or depression or anxiety. I mean, it's, it's incredible. Truly. And we are so grateful, you guys, that we get to be your best friends. So thank you. And for the crime junkie out there who might be going

through something right now, we love you. We're here with you. And thank you for being part of this community because even in your darkest times, you are always wanting to help other people, other families who need support and who are looking for justice for their loved ones. And this week, that person is Natalia. She reached out to us because she is determined to fulfill the promise that she made to her dad nearly 17 years ago to find out what happened to him. This is the story of Sean O'Brien. Thank you. Amy Keia is used to hearing from her daughter's father, 34-year-old Sean O'Brien every morning

like clockwork. They're both early risers and he typically calls her around 6'30, to like touch base and let her know what his plans are for the day. So she is surprised and a little concerned when she doesn't hear from him on Saturday, July 22, 2006. But she's not panicking or anything. She knows that Sean had been out at a local bar last night. Now he struggles with substance and alcohol use disorder, and even though he promised Amy that he wouldn't drink or do any drugs, she figured that maybe he did something he shouldn't have, and he's probably just sleeping it off, and she'll hear from him when she hears from him.

But the date passes, and there's still no word. Until early that evening, when she finally gets a call, but it's not Sean, it's one of his sisters and she's in a panic. What she says makes Amy's heart drop. Sean is on his way to the hospital in an ambulance. While they're still on the phone, his sister fills Amy in on what had happened.

She says that she and her 14 year old son stopped by Sean's at around 545. And when they got there, his roommate slash landlord, 57 year old Armand Rulow, came running out of the house and yelled for her to come quick. Because Sean had been having a seizure for over an hour. An hour? And she didn't think to call, I don't know, 911 or anything during that entire time. No, his sister was just as dumbfounded as you are.

She says that she raced down the stairs of his duplex that they shared to find him unconscious, face down in a pool of blood and saliva. And so she is the one to call 911 at around 5.50. I used to be on the line, I'll get you to rescue a whole guy for you. John! John! John! John! French fire. Alright, we need a rescue fleet 145, let's go straight and grab them. I'm on my phone, how does he do? He's been in it for a couple of days. After that call, she high-tailed it out of there because she thought she had an outstanding warrant, but her son stayed behind.

Now Amy's head is spinning. She and Sean just saw each other around seven o'clock the night before. And the plan had been to take their teenage daughter Natalia to a local festival, but Natalia had gotten a headache, so Amy decided to just bring her home and drop Sean off at the bar because he didn't want to go back to his place just yet. And that was because his roommate had his girlfriend over, and I guess Sean and the girlfriend do not get along. So basically his plan was to just hang at the bar, play a few games of Kino, and then walk

home. And Sean had even given Amy most of the paycheck that he had just cashed to like help stave off drug and alcohol temptation. So, she and Natalia and other members of Sean's family rushed to the hospital and anxiously set up camp in the waiting room. By this point, Sean's been taken into emergency surgery, and when a doctor comes to update the family, They obviously have a million questions, but first, the doctor has one for them. What happened to Sean? Because this doesn't look like a seizure. And Sean's family is confused.

They thought Sean was here because he had a seizure and fell, which kind of made sense because he had a history of seizures brought on by his drug and alcohol use. But the doctor explains that typically someone having a seizure falls either backward or forward. So their injuries tend to be either to the front or back of their head, but not all the injuries that he came in with were consistent with a fall like that. Basically, what a CT scan showed is there was this large 2-inch skull fracture on the right side of Sean's head, not the front or back. Blood had pooled in his brain

over his ear building pressure. Plus, there are bruises across the left side of his brain and frontal lobe, and he has all these cuts and abrasions on his face and his knuckles and his chest. Yeah, that feels off. If Sean really feels sure, he'd have a major injury and maybe some smaller ones like those cuts and abrasions, but like he said, only on the side he fell on. I mean, unless you're like a stunt man in a movie, you don't just keep falling back and forth on your body.

Yeah, it's not adding up and to the doctor, I mean they're saying it looks like Sean was in a fight. And Amy sees exactly what he means when Sean is transferred to the ICU. Still unconscious and on a respirator after surgery. Like she notices a deep cut and bruising on his upper chest. He's got bruises even on his knees and these these cuts or rug burns on his nose and forehead. He even has little cuts between his toes, and there's this dent on the left side of his head,

almost like it had been hit with something. So is the theory that he was attacked or in some sort of fight and then how to seizure? Like, as a result from the fight? Well, no, this is the thing. Natalia says that the doctor never suspected a seizure like at all, which contradicts actually what EMS initially told the hospital when they brought Sean in.

Okay, but EMS were probably just going off of what the people at the scene had told them, right? Well, maybe. So this is where I actually want to take us back to the moment that first responders from the Cranston Road Island Fire Department walked into Sean's home, because the more his family learns about how he was found

and the more pieces they put together, the more questions they have. So let me first explain kind of the layout. Sean and Armond live on one side of a ranch-style duplex. Like Sean is in the finished basement and Armand is on the ground floor. And according to police records, which Sean's daughter Natalia gave our reporter Nina, Armand was the one who directed the rescue team downstairs to the basement. So when the paramedics arrive, Armin is there and then remember Sean's nephew is there

because his sister left after she made the nine-on-one call. And apparently both of them tell responders that Sean had a history of drug and alcohol-related seizures, which paramedics knew because they had actually responded here twice before for that very reason. So this time, they found Sean on the floor of his small bedroom. He was near the doorway, kind of wedged between his end table and mattress, and he was dressed only in boxer shorts, which were soaked with urine.

There was also dried blood, pooling in his left ear from either his nose or his mouth, and there was blood oozing from in between his toes. Now his pupils were fixed and dilated, and his skin was like really clammy. I'm sorry, I'm stuck on blood oozing from his toes. I mean, pretty sure that doesn't just happen during a seizure. Not a nurse here, not a doctor. I would love every crime-jackingie nurse or doctor to email us, cue all of them doing that right now.

Because I'd love your insights, email us seriously. Crime-junkie at audiocheck.com. Because I have a basic understanding of human anatomy. And that doesn't seem possible, that you're just oozing blood from in between, like I've never heard of this happening. Now, on top of that, he was unconscious but breathing heavily, kind of like snoring. His jaw was clenched so tight that paramedics couldn't get the suction tool in his mouth to

clear his airway. So they got as much blood and saliva out as they could, and they gave him Narcan, which was ineffective. The strange thing is, the fire department requested police backup for a man having a combative seizure. A combative seizure? Yeah, I thought he was unconscious. He was unconscious. Now, we've got statements from first responders who say he was, and none of them described

Sean as combative. So I have no clue where that's coming from or what this even means. Okay, did they actually say those words or like, you know how they use codes for things? Like, okay, we have a 1039. I would be a 1039 copy. I don't know what a 1039 is. I totally just made up that number. But, you know what I mean?

Like, based on the code they called it, maybe it was implied it was competitive, but no, based on a recording of the dispatch, police asked the fire department what they need help with, and the response is, quote, a seizure, a combative seizure, end quote. Now keep in mind, we've got two of the responders just say that he was unconscious, and then the other two imply it. And this is just the beginning of the responders just say that he was unconscious and then the other two imply it.

Embryt, this is just the beginning of the confusion because this was when a cramston police lieutenant arrived and according to him, paramedics told him that Sean only had one injury, that he had bitten the inside of his mouth during the seizure. And this lieutenant said that he didn't see any other marks or injuries. And he also reported that Sean appeared to be conscious again, not what everyone else is saying. But the contradictions don't even end there.

Paramedics noted big blood stains on Sean's mattress and some blood and some vomit on the floor. They described his bedroom as messy and crowded with a sheet pulled nearly off the bed and clothes and empty beer cans just kind of like laying around. While on the other hand, the lieutenant reported that the bedroom was neat and orderly with no signs of a struggle except for a few drops of blood on his mattress, which he figured came from Sean's mouth injury. I mean, I guess messiness is relative.

I mean, your definition of neat and orderly might be different than mine and between the two of us, it is. I actually know that. It's really it. But regardless, Sean was either conscious or unconscious. I mean, there's no halfway or room for interpretation with that. Yeah, and I mean, even when you go back, like, one mouth injury,

when you remember all this stuff, his family saw in the ICU, and also they're saying his mouth was like clenched and they can't... Like... If his mouth was so clenched, you couldn't open it. How did you know it was injured on the inside? It makes no sense. As the only injury, it makes no sense. It still doesn't open it. How did you know it was injured on the inside? It makes no sense. As the only injury, it makes no sense. It still doesn't stop there.

Because as Sean was on his way to the hospital, the lieutenant spoke with Armin, who added some more conflicting statements to the mix, at least compared to what he reportedly told Sean's sister. According to the police reports, Arman's story to the lieutenant goes like this. He saw Sean watching a baseball game on the TV in his bedroom at around 5 o'clock. A little while later, Arman claimed

that he went downstairs again. That's when he saw Sean on the floor and thought he was sleeping. And then, when Sean's sister stopped by, she went downstairs, saw him on the floor, and told Armin she didn't know if he was sleeping or having a seizure. And then he says that he then called 911. So there were two calls 911? Because Armin wasn't in the call that you played, that was just Sean's sister.

No man. Start taking notes because that's lie number one Lie number two Sean doesn't have a TV in his bedroom So like tell me how he's watching TV in his bedroom. I never Understand stuff like this like why lie about stuff that's so easy to go back and be like No, that's not true. I mean that's the easiest thing in the world. Your guess is as good as mine. Although, keep in mind, the info from Armin is from the Lieutenant's report, which, again, it's not seeming super accurate so far.

Plus, that same Lieutenant reported that he went to the ER later that night, and a staff member told him that Sean was stable and had a blood clot in his brain possibly from a seizure. Okay, these are massive inconsistencies. Like, yeah. I get being an emergency situation. Like a developing situation.

There's a lot going on, but this is more than just not being on the same page. I mean, these people aren't even reading the same book. I agree. And what's so confusing is like, this lieutenant didn't even speak with Sean's family when he was at the hospital. So, I mean to your point, like he could even be getting inaccurate information. But if he would have been talking to the family, that would have cleared things up from the get-go. Yeah. Regardless, even if police thought that this was some kind of tragic accident,

they must have known that things had taken a turn, because later that night Amy's sister contacts them, trying to set everyone straight, and hoping to jumpstart an investigation. And again, there are conflicting stories. Oh wow, talking, I know. Specifically about whether Cranston PD went back to Armin's to question him again later that Saturday. And I don't know the answer to that. All I know is that the next day, so this would have been Sunday, July 23rd, Sean's sister Aaron.

Now this is not the same sister who called 911. She goes over to speak with Armin herself. So whether police did or not, whatever, we've got Aaron going over on Sunday to speak with Armin. So whether police did or not, whatever, we've got Aaron going over on Sunday to speak with Armand. Now, as she gets there, it's obvious to her that Armand had been in Sean's basement apartment because he tells her that he took some money that he found on Sean's table, which after some prodding, he turns over. But like whatever, Aaron didn't even go there for the money while he took it, it's all

strange. What she wants is answers. And Armin seems ready to supply them. He tells her that after Sean got home on Friday night, he didn't go out again and no one came to visit him. Now he says that he went to work Saturday morning, he figured that Sean had gone to work as well, and after he got home, he says that he went downstairs to the laundry room, which is next to Sean's little kitchenette area in his apartment.

And Arman says that he was going to wash his bedding or whatever. So he's down there, and that's when he says he noticed Sean lying on the floor. Now Arman says that he didn't check on him again until about an hour later. Even though he apparently assumed he was having a seizure. Uh, did he say why? Not that I can tell. And I can't tell if Aaron asks him or not. Like I'm sure she's just trying to like get as much information

as she can out of it. And as I'm sure they are for you, O'Laren Bells are going off in her head. So after she leaves, she calls Cranston Peding, and so does a family friend slash lawyer. Because they are sure that something fishy is going on here and they want to get to the bottom of it. But nothing happens. And for Sean, it's too late.

Doctors tell his loved ones that he's not gonna recover from his injuries. He has irreversible brain damage. So at 5 p.m. on Monday, his mom makes the painful decision to take him off life support. And this is a tragedy that no one in the family saw coming, especially his daughter, Natalia.

She's not ready to say goodbye. I mean, they've barely had any time together because you see her mom and dad broke up when she was two because Amy didn't want their daughter around, Sean when he was deep into drinking and drug use. Plus, I mean, he'd been in his fair share of trouble with the law. So it wasn't until their daughter was nine that Sean came back into her life. Well, now she's 13, and they had actually grown so close in the past four years. So I mean, she can't believe, like, you know, she's only had this short time with him, and now she's already losing him. So what she does is she actually takes some time to write him a letter.

And in that letter, she makes her dad a promise. A promise to find out what really happened to him no matter what. And Natalia actually gave us a copy of her letter, and it's heart-wrenching. I don't want to read the whole thing, but Brick, can you read the paragraph that I highlighted there? Mm-hmm. Natalia writes, quote,

guess what, Dad? The Sun's out today. It's been raining for a while, but not today. God knows you deserve a good day. He's entering you into heaven with a beautiful day. I guess it's a sign, right? To let you go? I promise you, Daddy, I'll see you again. End quote. go, I promise you daddy, I'll see you again." Sean dies on Tuesday, July 25th at 1.24pm. An autopsy is scheduled for the next day, and in the meantime, Amy and Aaron go to the bar that Amy had dropped Sean off at to have a beer in his honor. And while they're there, I mean they're asking around, hoping that they can pull together a clear timeline of, you know, what happened between when they dropped him off and when

he was found. But even though the bar owner remembers seeing Sean on Friday, he doesn't know when he left. So after the beer, Amy and Aaron head to his house to get some of his stuff. And of course, who else but armand meets them outside. And so they give him the news that Sean died and they tell him that it was from being hit of his stuff. And of course, who else but Armin meets them outside. And so they give him the news that Sean died and they tell him that it was from being hit in the head, but Armin says that that's impossible because who could have hit him

in the head. And at this point, he's like, oh, you know, Sean's actually been having a lot of seizures lately. He must have had another one and just fallen. But to Amy and Aaron, I mean, this seizure thing that he keeps putting forward is just not adding up and doesn't help that Armin seems nervous. Like he won't maintain eye contact. And as they're talking, his whole narrative is inconsistent.

At first he says that Amy brought Sean home on Friday night. Like, nope, that's lie number three because we know Amy didn't. And she didn't. Amy's like, no, I didn't. She's right there. He's telling her this story and she calls BS right then and there. She's like, no, I dropped him off at the bar and then he was going to walk home. So like in that moment, Armin switches it up and says that, oh yeah, he remembers Sean

coming home on foot, maybe possibly carrying a bag of beers. It was around eight o'clock that night. And that's when Armand and his girlfriend, who by the way is 46 year old, Lynn Hullall, and they're like sitting outside in the yard when he gets back this time, he says. And Lynn is the woman that Sean didn't get along with, right? Right, but honestly didn't get along with

is an understatement. So Sean and Armand had lived together for about a year and a half, and when it was just the two of them, things were fine. But everything went downhill once Lynn came into the picture in the fall of 2005. Because according to Sean's family, Armand and Lynn fought a lot. And I guess the fights like spilled over onto whoever was around, which mostly would be Sean since he's the only other person that lives there. And I guess the fights like spilled over on to whoever was around which Mostly would be Sean since he's the only other person that lives there now Lynn has a reputation for violence

In fact that day Amy and Aaron noticed for fresh looking cuts on Armen's face You're talking the day Sean was taking to the hospital or this day that they're going back and Talking to Armen the day that they're going back and talking to Armen. The day that they're going back and talking to him. Okay. Again, it's the same day that Sean died, but not the day he was taken to the hospital. Got it. And your next question, did they have the scratches, you know, the day that he was taken from his home? I don't know the answer to that. Right. What's interesting, though, is that Lynn and Armen both had criminal records, What's interesting though, is that Lynn and Armand both had criminal records, including a half dozen or so previous domestic violence-related arrests for Lynn.

And she had been arrested on a serious assault charge in January of 2005, right before she and Armand got together. According to a police report, Lynn's then- then boyfriend accused her of getting drunk, jumping on top of him in some kind of rage, and grabbing him by the throat and scratching him, and then throwing a cup of hot water on him. And because this guy was over 60, Linn was charged with a felony, although after it went through the court, I think it was later dropped to a misdemeanor. Oh, okay, just to take a second, I'm trying to keep Arman's story straight.

So, he backtracked on Amy bringing Sean home, and in the new version where Sean walks home, Arman's putting Lynn at the house too. On Friday night, yes. Okay, they're like sitting outside, he says, like, on the lawn when he comes home. But what he does say is that Lynn left when he went to work Saturday morning, implying I think that she couldn't have had anything to do with Sean's death either. So again, we're up to what, at least three lies now. So Armin's words aren't meaning a whole lot.

So Aaron and Amy think that maybe they're going to get more answers if they can actually see Sean's room. So the two women go downstairs, and this is the first time that Amy has been to his apartment since everything happened, and it's the first time that Aaron is getting a good look at it. And when they both look at it, they can't believe their eyes. There was way more blood than they expected. The carpet in Sean's bedroom has some blood, there's some small blood spots on the wall by the bed,

some on the sheet, the pillowcase, on a pillow. And all of this they find crumpled up under the comforter on his mattress, and on the mattress are big spots of blood as well. And they find more spots of blood on the bottom of his dresser. Now when they keep looking around, they find this white t-shirt that looks like it's been like used maybe to wipe up blood. And there's a blood splotch on the bathroom door

that maybe looks like finger marks or maybe a hand print. There's even blood on a chair in the kitchenette. And there's a sliced open can of beer in living room. Like okay. I take back everything I said about messiness as relative. This is nowhere near. What was it?

Neat and orderly, they said? Like the lieutenant? Yeah. This isn't even close. Not only is it not neat and orderly they said like the lieutenant yeah this isn't even close I mean not only is it not neat and orderly this sounds like a crime scene Ashley I know I don't know how the lieutenant looked at everything and was like yeah This is totally like looks like someone had a seizure and fell like no need to secure this space Well and speaking of that they're looking no one's cleaned it up already I mean it could have been in a completely different state and they would have never known.

Well, since Aaron's visit on Sunday, what she can tell is someone started cleaning up because like the garbage bins had been empty. So, at least that had happened. They hadn't, you know, how much damage they did. Who knows what else, right? Now, as they're looking around, Amy thinks that it looks like Sean had been preparing to go to work on Saturday. Now he was a carpenter and his belt and hammer holder are on the kitchen table.

But what's weird is that his hammer is missing. And so are a few other things, like a faux brass lamb, and a barbell, and a radio. And there's this other weird thing that stands out to them. So Armin has this dog named Floyd, who really liked Shawn, was like super attached to Shawn for one reason or another. So Floyd would always be by Shawn when Shawn was home. So when Amy and Erin are at the house, they notice that Floyd has this weird patch of fur that's just like completely shaved off his tail.

They don't know what it means. Super weird. So they can't help but wonder if the dog had been near Sean when whatever happened to him happened and like the dog got blood on his tail and maybe someone saw it as evidence and wanted to dispose of it? I mean, there could be a million other reasons. Like, I don't know this dog's medical history from his vet, but it's, again, it's just something that as they're there.

It's out of the ordinary. Right. Now, while they're looking around, Armin's nephew comes downstairs. And right away, he seems defensive. And he makes a point of saying that his uncle and Sean didn't have any problems. Which is like, OK, fine, but also we like know they kind of did

because of his girlfriend. Like, again, why lie about stuff that can be proven? I don't know. So this whole interaction just leaves Erin and Amy with a bad feeling. And that's when Amy knows it's time to leave. But first, Erin photographs everything on her camera phone, which if you remember phones in like circa 2006, like not great pictures, but it's something.

It's something. I mean, they wanted to document the scene as best as they could in case police decided that they were ever going to secure the scene. Or in case they decide they were never going to secure the scene. Like who knows, like, they could walk away and the whole room could be wiped. All right, but I mean, even if they do come in and secure, I mean, is it even gonna be helpful people have been in an out, cleaning up, not cleaning up, just being in there?

I mean, these people need to get their act together. Well, and Amy is bound in a term to make them get their act together. So the next morning, which was Wednesday, July 26th, she goes to the Cranston Police Department and lays out her concerns to a detective. She's like, listen, there are too many red flags for me to ignore. And even if you discount all the blood,

all the unexplainable injuries, armoured shifting stories, and the missing items, like Amy knew about Sean's problems with Lynn. And listen, like I said earlier, it's not that they just didn't like each other. She tells police that on at least two separate occasions, Lynn hit Sean in the face and threatened to kill him. And the last time was just a couple of months ago. When Sean confronted her about some drama that she was trying to start in his

and Amy's relationship, like long story short, but apparently Lynn had made a racist comment about the woman that she claimed Sean was bringing into the house and like stated that he may be HIV positive because of her. You know, sometimes things get taken out of context. Like it's impossible to know who a whole person is when we just get these little snippets of them,

but I feel like I know who Lynn is and I am not a fan. Yeah, same, same with you. So anyways, she says all of this hateful s*** and the cops get called, which ended with Sean being arrested on an outstanding warrant for failing to appear in court for unpaid fines. Now, it's a little fuzzy after this, but apparently Armin kicked Lin out after that, and may have gotten an order of protection, question mark, but before long she's back. And Amy tells police that Sean avoided Lynn when he could, but there was constant tension and he had actively been looking for a new place to live. I just hadn't found it soon

enough. Yeah, I mean things may have been very different for Sean if he would have been able to get out. Now, while Amy is talking to police, this is when Sean's autopsy is underway, and the medical examiner is suspicious too. He tells investigators that the magnitude and extent of Sean's injuries just doesn't match up with his falling after a seizure. Yeah, hi, welcome. We've already made it to this point, but I'm glad he's on board, I guess. Yeah, basically, he's like, I know that Sean died of blunt force trauma to the head.

Problem is, he can't explain how that trauma happened. So between that and Amy's concerns, Cranston PD finally starts an investigation. By noon on the 26th, investigators are trying to question Armond. He lawyers up, but he agrees to let them search his house. As officers poke around inside, and we're talking just kind of a cursory overview of everything. They noticed the same things that jumped out at Amy and Erin, like there's a lot of blood, and not just in the area where Shawn was found. Which again, doesn't align with the whole seizure theory.

Exactly. Meanwhile, detectives interview Lynn outside in the yard. They want to know if Armin said anything to her about how Sean looked on the floor that Saturday. But Lin said she doesn't remember. However, Armond, who's out there with them, would like to answer. So, well, well, hang on. Yeah. Why is Armond there while they're questioning Lin? Interviewing people separately is police 101. Yeah, that's the right question. You are not wrong. Congrats. You have passed crime junkies policing 101. An entry-level course into process and procedures viewed only in hindsight from the comfort of your home and no real pressure of being in the field. I will make you a certificate.

Yes, please, thank you. But anyways, yeah, they probably should have been separated. But they're not. And Armand, who can't seem to keep his own mouth shut to save his life, decides that he wants to die. Yeah, they probably should have been separated, but they're not. And Armond, who can't seem to keep his own mouth shut to save his life, decides that he wants to talk after all, and he waves his right to a lawyer. And the way that the report reads, it sounds like detectives just get their statements together right there in the backyard.

But there is no indication that they left the yard yard at least not in the reports that we have And get this Natalia says that police let Lynn write our statement for him What? Yeah, I have never heard of this arm and it's fully capable of writing, okay? Like let's just put that out there and the whole reason she thinks this is basically like police show Natalia both statements. And she's telling us that both of them are written in Lynn's handwriting. And so she, I mean she's not just telling us this, she went and asked investigators. And they're like, yeah, we allowed it because Armond was nervous. Okay. That's not a reason, but okay.

All the more reason, right? Not too? Yeah, and also nervous about what exactly like being interviewed by the police at all, or nervous about saying the wrong thing with Lynn right there, because between allegations of physical abuse and, I don't know, her writing his statement for him, I've got all the alarm bells going off right now. Yeah, and listen, even if for some reason the officer is interviewing them didn't know about all of the domestic violence history that makes what is happening so sketchy to you and me, Armin and Lynn straight up tell them. Like, actually that is their explanation for the injuries on Armin's face.

They say that Lynn scratched him during an argument last Friday night. This is the Friday night in question, right? We were like, were those scratches there before? They're saying they were. They say, Friday night around eight o'clock, that's when this altercation happened. Now beyond that, I'm not sure what they tell police.

Although it must not be anything too damning, I guess, or we'd be having a different conversation now. But later that day, back at headquarters, a detective updates his supervisor on their statements and the supervisor's ears perk up. Cause Rhode Island has mandatory domestic violence arrests. So basically they can bring Lynn in on an assault charge. Unfortunately by the time they reach out again, she has left Armin's house and no one knows

where she is. No. So police start putting a warrant and complaint together for Lynn's arrest. And in the meantime, they apply for a search warrant for the house. By now, the pieces seem to be falling into place, especially when they start taking a look back at other statements that they have gotten from more of Sean's loved ones. For instance, his niece told them that late Saturday afternoon or like early that evening, she saw Lynn hauling a gold-colored lamp out of Armin's house. Would you remember as one of the missing items? Or could look

like something like a missing item? Now basically the whole story goes that Shawn's mom and his niece had stopped by that afternoon or early that evening, not long before the 911 call. And his niece says that Lynn quickly got in her car with the lamp and just like pieced out. Did Sean's mom see her too? No, I guess it was just the niece because she was waiting in the car while his mom went to knock on Sean's basement window. Now I'm not sure why she didn't knock on the front door first. Like I had a kind of a lot of confusion around this. Like maybe she tried and it was locked or whatever.

But the point is the niece sees Lynn leaving. And the mom assumes that Sean isn't home. Because again, Floyd the dog is like always with Sean. And when she would normally come like knock on the window or the door or whatever, Floyd would bark his head off. So she knocks, she doesn't hear Floyd barking, so she assumed that Sean wasn't home, which is why she left.

I think it's a little doggy doorbell. Oh yeah, and actually what's interesting is that Floyd also used to bark when Sean had seizures and he would just make a racket until someone came to hell. Okay, so was Floyd not in the house on Saturday or just not in the basement? I guess I'm kind of having a hard time picturing the layout of this place. Yeah, the layout is a little confusing. I actually have some sketches of it on the blog post for this episode, which might help you get a better sense of the layout. They're saying that Floyd is home.

Armin basically told Amy and Arran that Floyd was upstairs with him that Saturday afternoon. So this is like one of the times we don't know why Floyd wasn't with Sean, because Sean's supposed to be home at this time, right? Like, alive and well, who knows? But this actually kind of plays into

what theory is coming together for the family. Because the more they think about it, the more they suspect that Sean was probably attacked while he was in bed sleeping, possibly Friday night into Saturday morning. And that afterward, someone tried to move him. Because in their minds, that would explain the odd position that he was found in.

It would explain the rug burn looking injuries, and it would explain the fact that he was only wearing boxers, because I guess he wasn't someone who would just like normally lounge around in his underwear. Oh, and it would also explain why he'd ever called Amy or went to work that morning. Well, and maybe why the dog wasn't with that afternoon. Right. Now by now, police also suspect foul play. So on Thursday, they are back at Armin's with the search warrant. They take swabs, they collect bloody clothing and bedding, even a container of quote unquote bloody toilet water, along with some cleaning supplies and bloody sections of the mattress. Now later that night, it sounds like police find Lynn somewhere because they bring her into the

police station and detectives interview her while officers search through her car outside. Now, whatever comes from that isn't enough to arrest her for anything related to Sean, but she is charged with misdemeanor assault and battery for the fight with Armand. And even though the arrest isn't for Sean's murder, his family at least feels like that's gonna come next, right? Uh-huh. Natalia even remembers detectives reassuring them

that someone would be in handcuffs by the time Sean was laid to rest. But the funeral is held on Saturday, July 29th, and no one has yet to be charged with anything. But still, Cranston PD seems to be working hard. According to NBC10I team reporter Parker Gavigan, detectives try to track down the missing items. They follow a tip about the lamp maybe being in a landfill

They also interview Sean's friends and family people at the bar that Sean was last seen at even other bars in the area And they what they're doing is really I mean again trying to figure out what the items are but trying to retrace Sean's steps So what they piece together is they know through Amy that he got to the bar at around 7 o'clock on Friday night. But they're not really sure when he got home or what if anything he did on Saturday. And the details of Armin and Linn's whereabouts that we can are just as murky, at least based on the reports that we have. Now Linn was pretty much living at Armin's again, so she most likely slept there on Friday night, even after the argument that they said they had.

Although according to Natalia, Lynn tells police that she left for a little while that night. But I don't know exactly when or for how long. Oh and despite Armin's story about him and Lynn clearing out Saturday morning, one of Sean's sisters tells investigators that she saw both of their cars in the driveway at 11 a.m. According to Amy, the family eventually learns that Armand didn't go to work that day after all. And they can't help but notice that when Lynn lays out her schedule for detectives, She places herself away from the house during very key periods, like Friday night and Saturday morning and late Saturday afternoon.

So did the neighbors over here anything? I mean, they're living in a duplex, right? So yes, they are. And the walls are thin, but the woman who lives on the other side actually told investigators that she was home Honestly for like hours before that 911 call and she says she didn't hear a thing So it's a dead end honestly every lead is feeling like a dead end

It's not until mid august when Sean's loved ones meet with the ME that they get like any kind of update. Because they're meeting with the ME for a status update because the toxicology reports have come in with the first movement in a while. What they learn is that Sean had cocaine in his system, along with barbituates and opiates from the hospital treatments. But none of that changes the ME's mind about Sean's cause of death. Blunt forced trauma to the head. He believes that the first and likely fatal blow might have rendered Sean unconscious, but he tells them that without any witnesses and without police providing a clear narrative

of what happened, he still can't rule the death a homicide. So now that he has everything, like, you know, he has examed toxicology as in, now he makes a final ruling and he is classifying the death as undetermined. Which we've seen before, but here is one of the most frustrating catch-22s in the legal system. Police tell the family that if the ME won't rule the case on homicide, their hands are pretty much tied. Because they would be hard pressed to get a DA to prosecute

the case if the ME can't definitively say that it's a homicide. Okay, so now what? No one knows. Which is why Natalia is in the position she is in now. And listen, I'm sure that there are some valid points as to why this is playing out the way it is, but Sean's family is understandably disheartened. Like they think that if police took their concerns seriously from the beginning, maybe things would have looked different. I mean, at the very least, the crime scene would be more intact. So it's kind of up to his family to do what they can to keep the investigation moving along.

But the closest they get to justice is when Lin is arrested in November for allegedly violating a no-contact order in place for armand. By month 6, Cranston PD tells Amy that the case is cold. And 6. Cranston PD tells Amy that the case is cold. Now, if you fast forward to about a year after Sean's death, NBC 10's I-Team does their own investigation. Reporter Jim Tarikani tries to speak with Armand, but all he says before ducking inside his house is, quote, I know nothing about it. End quote.

The reporter also interviews Sean's three sisters who tell them how disappointed they are with how cransden PD has handled the case so far. But the police chief tells him that the department has been working hard, conducting hundreds of interviews, doing hours of surveillance, and they're confident the case can still be prosecuted, despite the compromised crime scene. So again, this is where like I guess they're still investigating it. They don't think a deal will prosecute, but maybe they think they're going to get more evidence, it gets very confusing for me.

Now another important thing that the chief says is that Lynn and Armin, who have split up by now, are persons of interest. But he says they are not, quote unquote, prime suspects. Okay, at this point, I'm glad there's at least anyone on police's radar, but if they're not prime suspects, then who is? I don't know if there are any. According to Jim Tarikhani, Cranston PD is sure that Sean was murdered in his apartment, and they're sure that someone knows exactly what happened, but they don't know who or what, though they say that they're not going to give up until they find out. But the problem is, as far as we can tell, they pretty much do, like, for years.

That is until Natalia gets old enough to start asking her own questions and what she finds moves the needle for the first time in years. The older Natalia gets the more determined she is to fulfill that promise she made to her dad. Once she turns 18 she tries to connect with police on her own. That doesn't work. So she tries again when she's 21, but nothing. Tries again at 25, still nothing, and it's draining. I mean, to the point where sometimes she tries to convince

herself that her dad did fall after a seizure. Because, I mean, that's better than the alternative that someone killed him, and nobody except her family is trying to find out what happened. But even in the times when she tries to convince herself of that, she can't stop herself from digging. She sent her dad's autopsy to several dozen forensic pathologists. And she says that everyone she hears back from agrees that it was a homicide. One of them even writes her a sworn statement to that effect. And that is actually the push

she needs. She kicks her efforts into overdrive, tracking down leads, reaching out to reporters posting on social media, fighting for police records, and meeting with every investigator that she can. Listen, I hate that she's having to do this, but I also kind of love that she's not taking no for an answer. I mean, we all need an Italian in our lives. We should be so lucky. And the thing is, her hard work pays off, because in 2019, Cranston PD assigns a detective to review the case. Yes. But the chief tells Natalia, while he knows there are still questions surrounding Sean's death,

there have been significant challenges to getting answers, like the fact that the medical examiner couldn't determine the manner of death. And he tells her that there's nothing to suggest that Sean was killed. He's saying now he says he thinks the death was more likely associated with a quote unquote medical event and fall.

But didn't they say they thought it was murder? That's why they kept investigating it. Yes, that's what the reporter said. But what I will say is what the reporter said and what the chief is telling, those are two different chiefs. You know, one told the reporter, yeah, the murder, this chief that's telling her like I think it's a medical event, different police chiefs. You know, one told the reporter, yet murdered this chief that's telling her like,

I think it's a medical event, different police chiefs. So maybe that's part of the problem. So when the eye team goes back to revisit Sean's case in 2021, this same chief tells reporter Parker Gavigan that they've done what they can, but they're pretty much stuck. And bottom line is, they don't know how Sean got his injuries. The Attorney General's office has reviewed the case twice, but nothing came of that either. So is Cranston PD saying they don't think it was a homicide? Or they can't prove it was homicide, because confusing, right? To me, there's a huge difference.

Yeah. And the thing is, in the Talia says, the answer depends on who you ask. And when you ask, she says that one-on-one behind closed doors, investigators agree that her dad was killed. But if you get them together, they backpedal. Now, to go back to Parker Gavigan and his, you know, reporting, he tries to speak with Armand again. Armand is still living in the same duplex by the way. Now he shuts the door once he hears the word reporter, and Lynn doesn't even open her door.

She just calls out that she's not interested in talking. Now meanwhile, an independent forensic pathologist, Dr. Timothy Gallagher tells the I team that in his opinion, the Emmy's undetermined ruling was the right call. But, Dr. Gallagher also thinks it's unlikely that this was an accident. He says that the injuries show classic signs of assault, and they don't align with a fall to the ground because when a person falls, quote, they do not hit the ground and turn over and hit the ground again and turn over

and hit the ground again. They hit the ground once creating one injury. End quote. Which is exactly what I said. See, your certificate is already paying off. Okay, okay, actually though, after looking at the sketches of the duplex and getting kind of a better idea of the layout, what's the chance he may be fell down the stairs?

No, okay, hear me out. I know it doesn't explain how he got to his room. There's definitely some other element or person involved with that, but could a fall on the stairs explain the injuries to multiple sides of his head and like some of the other injuries on his body? Well, I think this all comes back to what you're saying about the position of his body. So basically, okay, in 2022, Natalia met with the Emmy who conducted her dad's autopsy, and basically what he says, he doesn't address this whole like starrist thing, so I understand what what you're going with that. And it's possible because I mean, he says that the severity of Sean's skull fracture would have left him on the ground. Again, doesn't talk starrist specifically, but the problem with all of this is, and the key point of someone else being involved is that if he

fell down the stairs or had some other kind of traumatic fall, it was so bad that he would have been unable to get up again. So if he had fallen down the stairs, he would have been found at the bottom of the stairs. There is no world, at least according to the experts we have, that he could have gotten up and stumbled into his bedroom where he was found. Right, unless someone moved him. Unless someone moved him. Right. Okay, so in my mind, either he went down where he did, but the injuries don't fit with the seizure, or he went down somewhere else where maybe the injuries fit the situation, but then he was moved.

I mean, kind of going back to what you said, either way, someone is involved with what happened to him on some sort of sliding scale of culpability. Theoretically, yes. But even with this, the Emmy says that he still can't reclassify the death as a homicide. Because he says that the detectives told him Sean had a seizure and fell. So I mean, what the Emmy is saying is that there's no evidence anyone else did something to him. But at the same time, he can't rule it as a natural death or an accident either

because the scenario that police did lay out for him just doesn't fit Sean's injury. This is the worst. Yes, there's just this never ending back and forth. And you've got this combined with a whole host of other issues. So you can imagine this has led to a somewhat contentious relationship between Sean's family and investigators. And Natalia feels a distinct chilliness from law enforcement after that eye-teen peace errors.

They basically tell Natalia that now, Armand and Lynn won't cooperate, and that that reporter knocking on their doors was basically a heads up to them, warning them that they might still be the focus of an investigation. So I think their excuse is like they're saying this took the element of surprise away if police went to speak with them first. And they say that when a detective tried to follow up with Lynn after the story aired, like she wouldn't talk to him. The detective only tried to re-interview Lynn after the story aired?

Yeah, that's my impression. Hadn't he been on the case for like two years by then? Mm-hmm. I guess I don't get it. It feels like he's saying, don't have a birthday party. It's gonna mess up the surprise party that I'm not actually gonna throw for you. Listen, this is where the nuts and bolts of law enforcement

to me get so complicated. Like, listen, I don't know this dude's situation. I don't know if this was his only case. I highly doubt it is It's still inexcusable, but the one defense I will say and There is not a lot to defend here, so I want to give them at least what I've experienced or what I've seen firsthand and This is only taught in crime junky 305 or higher, but I feel like everyone can handle it So I mean what I've seen with investigators, especially when there's no specific cold case unit, even when there is, but I don't know the situation here, say there's no cold case unit. They're

getting cases, active cases in every day. Then there have these cases from back in the day that they need to work. Cases are changing hands all the time. We know that that has happened over the years in Sean's case. What I've heard from investigators is like, when I get a case file, I'm not just going to go start banging on doors. Like, I don't know this case. I don't know what's truth. I don't know what's a lie.

I'm not going to be able to catch people in a lie or, you know, if they're telling me a different story. Like, they're like, for me to be effective, I really have to know everything about the case before I go knocking on doors. And again, if that's your only job, two years, that should have been done in like two months. But if you've got an active workload, a lot of the times you're having to do this in your free time, PTO, Vick, whatever, like this is more, to me, this is like more of a systemic problem with like, yes, the family absolutely deserves for this

to be happening faster. Like, no, we shouldn't be waiting for a reporting team to like push you into action. Cause I also I think the timing of this is like, a little suspicious. Like, oh, you just happened to be ready right after that. Like reporter is starting on me.

And shocking how like that's when it was convenient for you to go interview her. But this is like a bigger issue of of budgeting and how many officers you have and the priority of cold cases. So there's a lot of wrong here. I don't know the situation behind this. But what I do know is the system we're working with is kind of f***.

So no, it doesn't seem like he had been able to talk to her in two years. Is there an excuse for that? Maybe? Does it mean it's a good one? I sure wouldn't find it acceptable if it were my dad. Now, to get back to some of the other problems we're having, it also doesn't seem like the Emmy

was given everything to work with. So what he's saying is like it's undetermined based on what police have given him. So in my mind, I feel like the more the better. Like the police should be giving him everything to work with. But the M.E. told Natalia that Cranston PD only gave him a two-page report. Now the police chief says there's no way to know what records they turned over, but he says he's confident they gave the Emmy anything he requested

because it's the department's standard practice. OK, but the Emmy doesn't even know what to request. Like, that's not fair. That's not fair. Oh, and speaking of records and department practice, and sorry, I have to back up in the timeline just a little bit. So a few days after Sean's dead, Amy had asked police for a copy of the 911 call to

Armin's house, and the clerk said, which call? Friday, July 21st or Saturday, the 22nd? What? How are we just now learning there were two calls? Yeah. The same place, on completely different days. Okay, so here's a thing, the family knew about some record of a second call early on because of Amy's inquiry.

But the department shut down the request because it was an active investigation. So, you know, fast forward through the months and years to when Natalia is finally being her own Colombo. And, you know, all this time it was just kind of the strange mystery that they had always kind of known about. But it was something that always stuck out to her, like in her mind as she's thinking about, you know, what does this mean?

What does this mean? She could never answer. So years later, when she's starting to file all of these records requests, it's one of the first things that she asked for. So she finally gets this log of every 911 call to Armin's address. Now she doesn't get the audio for the calls,

just a summary of them, including the date and time that services were provided, plus the reason and the action police took if any. So there is a listing for a call that Friday, a reported assault at 10.11 a.m. But Natalia says police tell her there was no call for service that day, that it was actually a back dated call log entry

made to coincide with the domestic assault between Lynn and Armand. So, police made a record of a 9-on-1 call that never actually happened. I guess? Maybe? That's how I understand it. Makes lots of sense. And I guess why the time difference?

Armand and Lynn said that fight happened at 9-9-10 o'clock in the morning. I think it was like 8 or something. I've got eight or nine, but yeah, so you're right. This is what stuck out to me too, and it was something she remembered as well. So she asked the department about that. So he said, you know, this is our practice to backdate calls. So because there's a big discrepancy in the time, that could have just been a clerical air. But like, I mean, she's pretty skeptical at this point. Uh, same. And I feel rightfully so, because generally a call for service

is just that. Someone calls 911 or a non-emergency police number. They want help with something. Now, we spent so much time digging into this, and what's interesting is that Cranston PD does not have a precise definition expressed in writing for what they consider a call for service. At least they didn't as of the mid-2000, so I don't know if they just like lump everything

in together or what. But here's what's strange. Natalia's got other records that seem to disprove the so-called department practice explanation. And her theory is that police did respond to the House on July 21 at 10-11 a.m. Maybe they mishandled a conflict between Armand and Lynn? And then when everything hit the fan that weekend, someone wanted to cover their butts? I mean, it's weird and shady, but none of this likely had anything to do with Sean. Right, so this is what's, again, especially if it really was at 10-11,

like he was at work that Friday morning. And also the weird part, though, is like for all I know, Armond was at work that Friday, too. So maybe this is a misunderstanding, but the whole thing is just so odd. And it's not like in a restaurant where police include the date of the crime, Maybe this is a misunderstanding, but the whole thing is just so odd. And it's not like in a rest report,

where police include the date of the crime, which might be different than the date the report was taken. Like, again, it's just like a call for service log. So if no one called for service, why say they did? I just don't understand this. Why put it on the log, yeah. Now the other thing that really stands out to Natalia, she hones in on lab testing.

What she does is she picks 10 things off the evidence list at random, including pieces of like the bloody mattress, some of the blood stained bedding, bloody t-shirt, and decans of soda. And what she does, she picks these 10 random things and she asks the department which of those items have already been forensically tested. And their response is none of them. What? So she's like, oh, so weird. You know, again, I'm randomly picking, I picked the ones that didn't get tested. So she picks another group of random items.

Bloodstained pillowcase, bloody towel, tubes of roofing cement, cleaning supplies, trace evidence from Lynn's car, and she's like, okay, well, of these, which have been tested. And wouldn't you know it? All of them. Like every single one from her second list. Could they have started testing all this evidence after she asked about the first few? No, no, they couldn't have, because according to Cranston PD, everything in that second group of items was tested, like back in 2006 or 2007.

I'm sorry, this feels unbelievable. I mean, what are the odds? And why didn't they test anything in the first group? I feel like some of that stuff sounds pretty important. Yeah, I don't have an answer, I don't know. So did they share the results with her to prove when all these tests were done? So they did, which, you know,

may have calmed some skepticism. But long story short, they say that some of the items they did test could be traced back to Sean DNA-wise. So, I mean, her none of this makes sense. She wants the case transferred at this point, basically from Cranston PD to Rhode Island State Police, and she even made a formal request to the Attorney General's office. But nothing came of it. Which is actually something that I have seen lobbied for a lot. And it's something that if you're looking for a place to get invested in true crime

and supporting families, lobbying for this is huge. And it can make a world of a difference in a case, if a family can petition to have it moved. It only, I think you can do it in Utah and maybe a couple of other states, but it is so few and far between. Because, you know, Cranston and PD, they're saying that they've done pretty much

everything they can. And- Except testing all the quite literally bloody evidence, okay. Right, right. So maybe, again, maybe what you need is a fresh set of eyes. Is I think what she's thinking, what I'm feeling, whatever. Actually, in letters he wrote to Natalia, the chief said, investigators have worked diligently over the years. They, you know, they met with her in her family, they let her see lots of the case

file, they answered her questions when they could, and they followed up on leads that she gave them. And it's not just them, like they're backed by the AG's office, who maybe this is why they don't transfer the cases. They're like, listen, we've seen what they have. I don't know that another department could do better, but basically the AG's office and the Cranston PD think that there's insufficient evidence that Sean's death was due to foul play. And at that point, the investigation is closed. Unless new information comes to light. And Natalia is positive that someone out there has that information. And her hope is that that someone hears this episode and finally decides to reach out to police. She says that her father had demons that he fought every day.

She doesn't know how things would have gone with the two of them. Maybe he would have let her down. Maybe they would have kept getting closer, but they never even got the chance to find out one way or another. She wants justice, but if she can't have that, she at least wants answers. So if you have any information about the death of Sean O'Brien, please call Cranston Police at 401-942-2211 or check our blog post to see how to send an anonymous tip. You can also email Natalia tips at Justice4shonobrion at gmail.com. She's offering a $1,000 reward for information leading to an arrest in her dad's case.

To find all the source material for this episode, visit crimejunkipodcast.com And you can follow us on Instagram at crimejunkipodcast. And we'll be back next week with a brand new episode, but stay tuned for the good. We've got some really good stuff to share with you this month. Well, it's the end of June crime junkies, so you know what that means. Time for some good! Yes, and I know we tell you every single month, but please, please, please, please, please, keep submitting your stories for the good. We have loved getting them, love sharing them with everyone on audio junk, love sharing them with you and hope that they brighten your day as much as they brighten ours. But we couldn't tell these stories if you don't send them. So be sure to submit a story of your own on the Good Segments page.

You can find that on our website, crimejunkipodcast.com or you can find the direct link to the page in our show notes. So Ashley, why don't you take it away? Let's do it. All right, here was a short letter we just recently got. Dear Ashley and Brit, thank you for publicly showing your support for the transgender community, especially without apologizing to the haters. As the mother of a trans daughter, I know just how important it is to have public figures as yourself speak openly and respectfully of her and everyone else on their journey. When my daughter started her transition 10 years ago, age 5, I had no idea what transgender

even meant. With her wisdom and guidance and thank God, the new and ongoing public awareness, she has grown into the most beautiful and authentic version of herself. Every time I hear positive discussion in the media about transgender issues, I know she is not only going to have a chance to survive, but actually thrive, and possibly have a safe and positive experience in her lifetime.

Thank you for being part of that change. Exo from a proud crime junkie mom. I love that. I get all dearest. I am like weeping over here. Oh my god. Oh, I think that's so great that, I mean, I just want people to focus on that last line

that this woman was worried that her daughter wouldn't have a safe and positive experience in her lifetime. Like, that's something that so much of us just take for granted. And I think that that is such a beautiful thing to give people, to love people, to let them be happy and let them be themselves and let them feel safe. And that is, I know we're rolling up on the end of Pride Month. It's what Pride Month is all about,

but something that I hope everyone carries into the rest of the year. I know we will continue to and continue to talk about these issues, but I'm just so happy that we can, even if it's just this one email, it makes my heart explode. So thank you, Crime Junkies. You are just as a part of the change that we're trying to make and trying to instill as Brittnye. And to prove that, I actually have one more story that can again emphasize how your support for us has let us speak up for communities who need a louder voice. Brittnye might have you read this one.

Awesome. My name is Dana. I've been a fan club member for months now, because from the first episode I listened to, I love the way you told stories and I was hooked as a newer crime junkie. This morning, I listened to the episode released early as I usually do on Sunday mornings, and I wanted to say, as a non-binary 40-year-old lesbian, thank you. I've been out and proud for 25 years, and it's still hard not to get emotional when two heterosexual cisgender women become such vocal advocates and allies for the community. I know you reach people that aren't based in places like New York City like I am. People in small towns that maybe LGBTQ and need to hear that love

in support or people who are not and need to understand we exist and we shouldn't be targets for crime and hate. I just wanted to say thank you for what you do. This is far from the first episode I've heard about the community and you always and we shouldn't be targets for crime and hate. I just wanted to say thank you for what you do. This is far from the first episode I've heard about the community, and you always follow up with promotions, donations, and visibility. Hearing you both get emotional made me emotional in a great way. I'm happy to continue supporting as a Patreon, not just because I'm fascinated by the stories and the dynamic you two have,

but also because I feel seen in a place I never thought I could be. Oh, yeah, I had a hair. I love that. Thank you. Oh my God, thank you so much, Dana and everyone. Oh, these stories really get to me, get to the reason why we do this, you know. Yeah, I have no idea who Joe wants to be

or who she wants to love. And I feel like now, I mean, I was always really passionate about this because I, again, just as think people deserve to be loved and accepted. But I am even more now that I have my own child because I can't imagine her growing up in a world where someone tries to make her feel like not enough or like bad for who she is. Because she is beautiful. And everyone out there is somebody's Joe.

So again, I thank you, Crime Druggies for letting us have this platform and for working with us to make a place where we can all love each other and look out for one another. And hopefully that's a better world. Crime Junkie is an audio check production. So, what do you think, Chuck?

Do you approve? Oh!