Crime Junkie - SERIAL KILLER: Mack Ray Edwards

Episode Date: October 24, 2022

When 8-year-old Stella Nolan went missing in 1953, no one could have known that she was the first in a long list of children that would disappear throughout the 50s and 60s in Los Angeles, California. But despite child after child vanishing, it would take an unexpected twist of fate for anyone to even know there was a monster living in their midst. For current Fan Club membership options and policies, please visit https://crimejunkieapp.com/library/.Source materials for this episode cannot be listed here due to character limitations. For a full list of sources, please visit: https://crimejunkiepodcast.com/serial-killer-mack-ray-edwards/

Hi, crime junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers, and the story I have for you today is about a man who shook the city of Los Angeles to its core. Despite operating in plain sight for almost two decades, it took a twist of fate for his reign of terror to finally come to an end. But questions about the full extent of his crimes still remain to this very day. This is the story of Mack Ray Edwards. It's the morning of Friday, March 6, 1970, and a man named Sergeant George Rock is on duty at the Foothill Community Police Station in Pacoima, California, which is just north of LA. The Foothill Division is actually part of the LAPD that serves multiple communities

in the North LA area, and it's been a normal day so far. And so when an adult man and a teenage boy walk in, Sergeant Rock isn't anticipating anything out of the ordinary. But what this man tells him is anything but normal. He says his name is Mack Ray Edwards, and they're there to confess to a kidnapping. According to reporting by Lee Dye for the Los Angeles Times, Mack pulls out a gun, hands it to Sergeant Rock, and says, quote, Be careful, it's loaded. This is no joke, so the sergeant takes them back to talk to get a formal statement. Now here is the wild part. This is where our source material loses track of the teenage boy that he's with. There is very little out there about who this kid is, why is he

with Mack, or even what ends up happening to him after this whole ordeal. We know he's handed over to juvenile police, but after that he kind of just disappears from the story. And that story that Mack goes on to tell is wild. He says that earlier that morning, like 5 30 am, he and this 15 year old boy broke into the home of Mack's old neighbors, the Cohen's. Inside they found the Cohen's three daughters, 14 year old Jan, 13 year old Cindy and 12 year old Valerie. Mack and the teenager rounded them up and herded them into his camper truck, grabbing a few items on their way out, like the family coin collection. After he got them all into his vehicle, he says that he drove off and went up into the

foothills of the Angeles National Forest. Once there, he stopped the vehicle and ordered all three sisters to get out. At first, they didn't want to, but he pulled out his gun, the same gun he had just handed over to the sergeant. And so they complied. Once they were outside though, Val took off in one direction and then Jan darted off in the other. And in the confusion, Cindy was able to escape too. Mack says that he tried to look for them, but when he realized that they were gone, he shouted that he was going to get the police and send someone to find them. And then he and the teenage boy left. What's wild is that he actually did go to the police, but not for the police to go after the girls. He knew that turning

himself in was his only option because the girls recognized him. He admits to Sergeant Rock that his plan was to sexually assault and kill the girls, because again, he knew the girls would recognize him and he wouldn't get away with it if they were left alive. Once Sergeant Rock learns where the girls were last seen, he sends officers to the bouquet canyon area of the Angeles National Forest and they do find all three of them. They're physically unharmed. And so even though they are incredibly traumatized, they get to return home to their parents that same morning. So thankfully, this whole story has a happy ending or at least the happiest ending there can be. The girls are safe, Mack is in custody, the end. But that would be a really short episode. No, the officers who hear

this story aren't so sure that this crime is the only one Max ever committed. I mean, this all seems really practice, right? Like the way he got into the house and the fact that he was able to coerce the sisters to cooperate. It feels like he's done something like this before. But when they look Mack up, the only thing that they can find is an arrest for vagrancy all the way back from 1941. Now, keep in mind, this is 1970. There isn't like a national database that they can search at this point. But at least locally, there in LA, he's never been arrested for anything else. But we crime junkies know just because he hasn't been arrested before, that doesn't mean that he's led a crime free life before he decided to kidnap three girls. And that's the moment when Mack

looks at Sergeant Rock and says that there are other matters that he wants to discuss. And then he begins to unload everything that has been weighing on his conscience for over a decade, starting with a murder from 1953, one that's gone unsolved for the last 17 years. He explains that on the evening of June 20th, 1953, he was in Norwalk, California, which is a city in Los Angeles County. And while there, this little girl caught his eye. Her name was Stella Nolan, and she was just eight years old. None of the source material I have explained exactly how he got Stella to go with him. But he tells Sergeant Rock that he drove her to his house, sexually assaulted her, and then strangled her. He then threw her body off a nearby

bridge, believing that she was dead. But he went back to check on her later that night and found that she was still alive. So he then stabbed her and moved her body to a construction site. See, he works in the construction industry as a heavy equipment operator. And so he knew where he could dump a body so that it wouldn't be found. He says he buried her in an embankment. And that embankment ended up becoming part of the Santa Ana Freeway. Now, at the time that Stella went missing, the search for her was massive. Hundreds of searchers had combed nearby buildings, fields, anywhere they could think of. It seemed like police suspected that foul play was involved pretty much right away, but lead after lead went nowhere. And it seemed almost

impossible that no one had seen what had happened to her. I mean, there were plenty of people around who should have seen something. And the police interviewed countless people, including any local sex offenders that they could track down. Even a man who had been arrested after he was seen lurking around some local children. But Mack, Mack was never on their list of sex offenders. And since he hadn't been arrested for any other crimes against children, he just flew right under their radar. That search for Stella went on for weeks. And eventually it just went cold. And her parents were left wondering what happened to their daughter for years. Every now and then, her name would pop up in the news mostly around her birthday or anniversaries of her disappearance. But as time

went on, her name faded from public memory. But if everything Mack is saying is true, then Sergeant Rock finally has their guy sitting right in front of him, ready to take him to the exact spot that he buried Stella. But just when Sergeant Rock feels like he's hurt at all, Mack keeps talking. And he says that Stella wasn't his only victim. Three years after Stella was murdered, Mack says that he set his sights on two more kids, his 11 year old sister-in-law, Brenda Howell, and her friend, 13 year old Donald Baker. At the time, he was living in Azusa, California, which is a little northeast of LA. And he was living with his wife, Mary, who was Brenda's older sister. Brenda had been visiting the two of them for the summer. But in early August,

the end of her trip was coming up. The Los Angeles Times reported that on the morning of August 6, 1956, Mack paid Don $7 to bring himself and Brenda to the foothills of San Gabriel Canyon in the Angeles National Forest. This is just north of where they lived. And there Mack stood, waiting for them on one of the trails. Mack explains how after the two approached on their bikes, he lured Don away first, around the corner and away from Brenda. It was early enough in the morning that no one else was around. And so after they were out of sight, he picked up a rock and beat him with it, incapacitating him enough so that he could slit his throat. Afterwards, he went back to where Brenda was waiting and slit her throat as well before taking both of their

bodies and dumping them off the side of a hill. After they were both dead, he took their bikes as well as Don's jacket and left them in two different places around town. One bike and Don's jacket at a nearby dam and the other bike at a local school. When Brenda and Don didn't come home that day, another massive search for them ensued over the following weeks and both of their bikes were discovered by searchers. But unlike when Stella disappeared, the police came to a different conclusion. They decided that the two had run away together. It turns out someone who knew Brenda told police that she had mentioned that she didn't want to return home at the end of summer because school was going to start soon and she just didn't want to go. Never mind that their bikes were found

in perfect working conditions so there wasn't a reason to abandon them. Never mind that saying you don't want to go back to school is a totally normal thing for every 11-year-old to say. And never mind that neither of them had ever expressed wanting to run away before. But the police ran with the theory and after about two weeks, the searches just stopped altogether. Brenda and Don's bodies were never found in those searches and since foul play was never even suspected, Mack was able to get away with killing his wife's sister and her friend for years, but as disturbing as the murders of three kids are, those aren't the only ones he kept hitting. Mack goes on to say that he took a break after Brenda and Don's murders,

but 12 years later on November 26th of 1968, he struck again. This time, he says he broke into a home in Granada Hills, which is a neighborhood north of Los Angeles, with the intention of assaulting a young girl who lived there. But instead of finding her, he ran into her older brother, 16-year-old Gary Rocha. Gary was not his intended victim, but now that he'd seen him, he couldn't let him go. So he forced Gary into his mother's bedroom, ordered him to lie down on the ground, and then he shot him. But Gary didn't go down without a fight, and even though he was shot, he got up and lunged. Mack says that he shot Gary a few more times, and then Mack ran out of the house. Now, unfortunately, I couldn't find much

of any reporting from the time that Gary was killed, definitely not to the extent of Stella, Brenda, and Don at least. And the same can be said for his next victim, 16-year-old Roger Madison. Roger went missing from his home in Silmar, which is also a neighborhood north of LA. Mack explains that Roger went to school with his son, and while sources differ on exactly how close they were, Roger definitely knew Mack, and so he felt comfortable with him. Roger was last seen leaving his home on his motorcycle December 14, 1968. It's unclear how he encountered Mack, but Mack confesses to stabbing Roger in an orange grove in Silmar, and then he buried his body on the Ventura Freeway in Thousand Oaks, which was under construction at the time. The last victim

he confesses to is the murder of a 13-year-old boy named Donald Todd. Donald went missing on May 16th of 1969. Mack says that he saw him riding his bike while he was driving down the road, so he pulled over and offered to help him find a job. Donald engaged with him. He put his bike in the back of Mack's truck, after which Mack abducted him and then tried to sexually assault him. Donald fought back, though, but Mack ended up shooting him and then dumping his body underneath an abandoned bridge. Unlike some of the others, his body was actually found the next day by some hikers, but despite having what all the other cases didn't, again, a body, his murder went cold. Now, this is where Mack's confessions end, and this sergeant's head has to be spinning at this

point. This dude just came in out of nowhere and confessed, not only admitting to cases that have gone unsolved for decades, but cases that were never even connected to one another before. Every single one of these was worked individually. No one at the time was looking for a serial killer of children. Needless to say, Mack was arrested and charged with two counts of murder and three counts of kidnapping. The murder charges were for Donald and Gary, since their bodies had been found. And I'm not 100% sure why they can't charge him for the other three, I assume. It was because you couldn't file murder charges without a body in California at the time, but when I looked into it, it turns out you could. So potentially it has more to do with a lack of evidence or something

else that's just not been reported on. But just because he's not charged now, prosecutors don't think it'll be long before they can slap him with charges for others. Because as part of his confession, Mack tells Sergeant Rock exactly where he dumped the bodies of Stella, Brenda, Dawn, and Donald. So they put together search teams to try and recover their remains. The first kid that they go out and look for is Stella. And just five days after Mack's confession, they head out to the Santa Ana Freeway in Norwalk. Mack directs them to a pile of compacted dirt, and when they dig, they uncover the skeletal remains of a girl that looks to be between eight and 10 years old. Official identification is a little difficult at first because dental

records don't exist for Stella. But between Mack's confession and the fact that her body was exactly where he said it would be, they are confident that this is her. So next they send a group to search for the remains of Brenda and Dawn. But unlike Stella, Mack didn't bury them, he just tossed them from the roadway. And since it's been over a decade since they were murdered, combined with the really rugged terrain of the area he dumped them in, the police were unsuccessful in recovering any part of their remains. Roger's body, though, that's a bit of a different story. Since Mack says that he buried him underneath the Ventura Freeway, the operation to dig it up would be a lot bigger than the other recovery efforts. And it's going to take a lot of time

and a lot of resources to get in there and find him. Not to mention they would have to shut down the freeway for an indefinite amount of time. And even though all of that effort seems well worth it to give his family the closure that they deserve, they decide to put the recovery on hold. So ultimately, there's just one more murder charge added on for Stella. According to reporting for the Independent, during his arraignment, Mack tells the judge, quote, I don't need no lawyer, I'm guilty. But despite clearly just wanting to enter a guilty plea and be done with it, his lawyer enters not guilty pleas for each charge and gets approval to submit Mack to psychiatric testing. I don't know if that testing ever ends up happening,

though, and he actually fights his lawyer every step of the way to be able to enter a guilty plea. There's even one hearing where all he says is guilty over and over every time he's addressed. Throughout this whole ordeal, he attempts suicide twice in jail. And eventually, he is allowed to enter a guilty plea for all of the charges against him. Mack states that he wants the death penalty to, quote, pay the supreme penalty. And he gets his wish because he ends up being sentenced to death on May 22, 1970. At his sentencing, he explains that he turned himself in and confessed because he had a guilty conscience. He had trouble sleeping after all he did, and it started impacting his ability to work.

And get this, he says that since he's a heavy equipment operator, the results of him making a mistake at work could cause people to get seriously hurt, which is an absolutely twisted thing to say considering that he is admitting to killing six children, but like he has to confess so adults don't get hurt. It's so freaking weird. Anyway, after he's sentenced, he is sent to death row to await execution. But before he dies, he shocks everyone because it turns out he has one more confession for police. At some point after his sentencing, Mack tells the police that he didn't just kill six kids. That number is more like 18. And even though that is a huge admission, it's actually not very surprising because police have already been looking

at that 12 year gap between when Brenda and Don were murdered and then when Gary was murdered. And they were thinking there is no way that this dude just quit for that long. Now, after he confesses to this 18, that number fluctuates a little bit, like sometimes it's 18, sometimes it's 20, but he tells literally everyone he can that there is more than just the original six. And I'm not sure what police think about his confession at the time because, I mean, we all know it's not unheard of for people on death row to try and say that they have more information in order to put off their execution. But it doesn't seem like that was his motive because on October 29th of 1971, he actually dies by suicide in his cell.

Whether Mack gave police names, dates, locations, anything like that for those other potential victims before he died, I don't know. And unfortunately, after his death, the investigation into these other possible murders just kind of stops. Police get pulled in other directions, and after a while it seems like that's that. Mack's dead and six families at least have some answers as to what happened to their loved ones. But not the rest. And to me, that doesn't seem like a good enough answer. I wanted to know what other cases he could possibly be connected to. To do that, I needed to know what kids went missing around this time or in this time span. And as I was digging into this, I learned that there's a reason why maybe the investigation

stopped or the reason why I was running into brick wall after brick wall because I couldn't find a list of kids that were missing in this timeframe. And this is when I learned the most absurd fact that I have ever heard and possibly all of my crime junkie days. It turns out that during that time, at least in that area, the police would destroy the files of missing kids when they turned 18. Like just gone. They basically said like, oh, they're adults now. So they're not missing kids. But they're still missing. They were kids when they went missing. And just because they're adults doesn't mean they're like, let go and now living their life. I cannot wrap my head around it. And because they threw those out, that means any statements that were taken or notes the original

investigators made, everything is just gone. I have no idea why they thought this was a good strategy. Because again, it's not like once a kid turns 18, they're suddenly just not worth looking for or the circumstances around their abduction has changed. It is infuriating. And it makes me wonder just how many cases of missing kids have been lost to time and how many families could still be out there wondering what happened to their loved ones. And I can't help but wonder if they even know that there is no file to go back to no one looking for their loved one. So if police have just tossed these kids aside and aren't looking for them, then that leaves it up to us and people like an author named Weston DeWalt. And it's Weston

DeWalt who finds himself falling down the rabbit hole of a decades old mystery that he never expected to go down. A rabbit hole made for crime junkies. You see, in the fall of 2005, he was researching trails near his home in Pasadena, California. And as he's browsing through a few articles, he kind of stumbles on this case of a little boy who went missing on one of those trails. And luckily, even if case files don't exist, many papers are archived so these kids can't be erased completely. The kid that went missing was named Tommy Bowman. And right away, Weston is baffled by his story. Basically, Tommy was just eight years old when he disappeared while on a family hike on March 23, 1957. The family was near the end of the trail, just like a quarter

mile from their car. And Tommy told his cousins that he was going to go beat them. And he just like took off running. He ran around the corner out of sight from his family and then just vanished. He was reported missing later that same evening in a thorough search of the area followed. Over 400 people scoured the trails, the woods, anywhere that he could have gone. And police interviewed people who had been out on the trails themselves. Now, fortunately, a few people did report seeing Tommy. They also reported that a man was following him. The witness who saw the guy who was following Tommy described him as about 40 years old, having tan skin and unkempt hair. A local woman created a sketch of this man,

and it was widely distributed. But if the police ever got any tips from this sketch, they never went anywhere. At the time, police suspected that Tommy was the victim of foul play, but no trace of him was ever found. And so tragically, the case went cold. Now, Weston becomes obsessed with this story. It baffles him because as we all know, little kids don't just vanish into thin air. So in true crime-junkie fashion, he starts researching. But there's just not that much out there. And he's not satisfied with the lack of information. So he actually reaches out to Tommy's now-elderly father, Eldon. He and Eldon are actually able to meet and thank the good Lord above because Weston

is given access to the old police records from the investigation. You guys, here's a little tip. If you have a loved one who is at the center of an unsolved case, keep as much as you can. You are not guaranteed that police will. As we've seen here, records can be thrown out, evidence rooms burned down and flood, and it sucks that families have to play the role of record keeper, but no one will care the way that you do. And one day, those records could be the difference between unsolved and solved. So Weston gets all of the stuff that Tommy's dad has been keeping. And Weston goes on to use that and continue his research. And he's researching and researching. And eventually, by chance, he comes across an article about Mack Edwards.

And I have to imagine that his heart just stops. Because there's a photo included in that article, and he looks at the photo, and then he looks at that sketch of a man who has seen following Tommy, and he thinks this can't be the same person, right? I mean, he goes back and forth, but the resemblance is just too similar. And so he starts researching Mack too. And what he learns is that Mack's M.O. fits Tommy's disappearance almost to a T. But when he takes his suspicions to the police, they say that they're going to need more evidence than just some resemblance to a sketch. Which to me is like, what the f***, guys? It's not like you've been expending a ton of resources into this case over the last few decades. Also, it's not like this suspect is just like some

neighbor of his that he's holding a grudge against or the local Good Samaritan. He is quite literally bringing you a serial killer of kids. So I feel like it might be worth taking a look at, no? But Weston is not letting it go. So in August of 2006, he gets in contact with Max, now widow, Mary Edwards, who, remember, was also one of his victims, Brenda's sister. The two of them sit down to have dinner along with a few of her other family members. Weston brings with him a consultant from the California Department of Justice. And over the course of this dinner, Max's sister drops an absolute bombshell. She produces a letter that Max had written to Mary before he died. In the letter, he recants

his confessions, indicating that he took the blame in order to help one of his friends, who he says really did commit the murders. But this statement is largely rejected, mostly because, aside from that teenage boy that he kidnapped the Coen girls with, Mac has never mentioned any other friend. Also, that teenager doesn't match the description that he gives them of this quote unquote friend. So they believe that his mental health was suffering severely at the time that he wrote this letter and that none of it is real. But what does seem real is a statement that he makes later on in the letter. According to Andrew Blankstein's reporting for the Los Angeles Times, that letter reads quote, I was going to add one more to the first

statement. And that was the Tommy Bowman boy that disappeared in Pasadena. But I felt I would really make a mess of that one. So I left him out of it. End quote. With this, the police are finally convinced that he's responsible for Tommy's death. And his disappearance falls at the beginning of that 12 year period where Mac denied murdering any other children. But now that they're sure that he could be connected to at least one more, the police start trying to find others. They begin by retracing his steps, looking at where he lived, where he worked, and seeing if there are any other unsolved cases that match up with those times and places. And sure enough, there are four other cases from the LA area that fit within his MO. Bruce Kremen, Karen Tompkins,

Dorothy Brown, and Ramona Price. Around the times that they all went missing, there wasn't too much reporting about them. But I'll give you a brief overview of each. Bruce was just seven years old when he went missing back on July 13 1960 from a YMCA camp out. He had been at this camp out with a group of about 40 people. But at 2.30pm on that afternoon, he refused to go with his group on an outing. And I'm not sure if the camp counselors were just like, yeah, cool, see you later, or if they left an adult behind to hang out with him. But come dinnertime, they realized that no one had actually seen him in a few hours. He was reported missing and a search got underway. But just like so many of Mac's victims, no one found any sign of him.

The area where he went missing was known for being pretty treacherous, like lots of cliffs and hills. So they just assumed that he probably had wandered off and fell somewhere that they couldn't get to. So eventually the search was dropped and his case went cold. 11 year old Karen was last seen at a playground on the evening of August 18 1961. Right away, her family worried that she had been abducted because as far as they knew, she was a happy kid. She wasn't having any issues at home or school. She hadn't even talked about running away before. There was a massive search that followed her disappearance. And even though the police detained a man that they thought could be responsible, he was eventually cleared. And with no other leads, the police had to move

on to other cases. Ramona was the next to go missing. It was September 2 1961. And the seven year old walked away from her home after telling her dad that she was going to go walk all the way to the new house that they were going to be moving into. They were getting all packed up and ready to leave. And her dad just thought she was joking. So he's like, yeah, okay, whatever, go walk. Even though her dad thought she was joking, Ramona was as serious as ever and as determined as ever. She left, headed to the new house and then never came home. Just like so many other stories of missing children, her parents reported her missing that same day and a large search involving helicopters and dozens of searchers ensued that night. But no one was ever able to find any trace of her,

despite her going missing literally in broad daylight. And finally, a little less than a year later, 11 year old Dorothy left her home on her bike on the evening of July 3 1962 and vanished. Not sure where she was going, but when she didn't come back home, her father actually went looking for her. And he found her bike just a block and a half away. She was reported missing that night. And again, right away, the police did believe she was abducted. And unlike literally all the other stories that we've covered today, the police thought right away that Karen and Dorothy's disappearances could be related. They were both 11. They both had blonde hair and blue eyes. But the difference was Karen was never found. And Dorothy's body was actually found the day

after she went missing. She was found unclothed floating in the ocean about 40 miles from where she had disappeared. She had been sexually assaulted before her death. But with it being in the 60s, especially since she was in the water, they couldn't find any physical evidence on her that would lead them to her killer. So now the police know Max Emo investigators are pretty confident that these four cases are connected to him. But when they go to actually do a bit more digging and try and link them officially, they run into a huge roadblock. Oh yeah, we threw away all the files, which means that the current investigators have to start entirely from scratch. But the fact that they have no files, pretty much a lack of evidence,

everything proves to be super difficult. And so they decide to take another look at the places where Mac lived and worked around the times that all four of them went missing. They're thinking this is the only way they might be able to connect him to those cases. Now they know that he buried Stella under a freeway and he claimed to have buried Robert under freeway too. So they're thinking, okay, where was he living? Where was he working at the times that these other kids disappeared? For some reason, they focused in on the house that he was living in at the time. I'm not sure why they headed the house first, but they searched the property. They use both cadaver dogs, they use ground penetrating radar to try and find any kind of remains, but they don't find anything at the

house. But then in 2008, in another search for Rogers specifically, they actually hone in on this freeway that was being built at the time that Roger went missing. Andrew Blankstein reported for the Los Angeles Times that they bring in cadaver dogs who consistently alert to a patch of land right next to the freeway. So next they use ground penetrating radar, which shows an anomaly right next to where the dogs alerted. So with all of these signs pointing to something, being under the freeway, they start digging. They even get in contact with Roger's family and get a DNA sample ready to go so that whenever they find him, they're ready to make the identification as quickly as possible. So they dig and they dig, but they find nothing, no sign of Roger, no sign of anything.

Most recently, in 2011, investigators shifted their search to look for Ramona Price's remains. At the time of her disappearance, Mack was working on a nearby bridge and they think that he might have buried her nearby. So just like the search for Roger, they brought in cadaver dogs who all alerted to the same spot near this bridge. They start the process of excavation, but just like with Roger's case, they come up with nothing and they eventually have to stop their search. I know dogs aren't perfect, but this is too much of a coincidence for me. Maybe they alerted just off the freeway because of how soil shifts and how gases and liquids move under the earth, but remember Mack worked in road construction for most of his life and he was part of building

some of the most traveled freeways in the LA area. So if he were going to bury bodies, it's not a stretch to think that he might bury them in a place that he knows is going to be covered with asphalt. Even though these searches were happening as late as 2011, and I can't say that they've given up on these kids, as far as I can tell, no other searches have been done for the remains of the children who are still missing to this day. Even though Mack only admitted to six of the murders, police are almost positive that he's responsible for at least five more, even though he's never been officially charged with them. I don't know if anything else is happening, but it kind of seems like at this point, police have just moved on. But I think there are

a lot of families out there that can't move on. I mean, I know for the families of Stella, Dawn, Brenda, Gary, Roger, Donald, Bruce, Karen, Dorothy, Ramona and Tommy, moving on isn't an option. There are still so many questions I have around this case. Are those kids under the freeway that so many people drive every single day? What happened to that teenage boy that was with Mack? Was he involved in anything else? What did he go on to do? And are those 11 that police have connected to Mack, really all of his victims? Or are there really more families who could potentially get closure if the right people looked at this case? Even though decades have passed, the pain of losing a loved one will never go away. And it's made much more difficult without

remains to lay to rest. Even though Mack never told anyone where to find the five that he never confessed to, he did tell investigators where they could find Roger. And I think there could be other victims under the freeway. Someone just needs to go find them. You can find all the source material for this episode on our website crimejunkiepodcast.com. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Crime Junkie Podcast and I'll be back next week with a brand new episode. Crime Junkie is an audio chuck production. So, what do you think Chuck? Do you approve?