Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - 10-year-old little girl missing five days. Help us find Breasia Terrell!

Episode Date: July 15, 2020

Breasia Terrell, 10, goes missing after a night with her younger brother and his father. Police are searching for the girl in a lagoon area of a local park. A person of interest has been named.Joining Nancy Grace today: Jason Oshins - New York Defense Attorney Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Atlanta Ga Karen Smith - Los Angeles Forensics Expert, Host of "Shattered Souls" podcast. Tom Loewy - Quad-City Times, Davenport Iowa, Reporter  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. A 10-year-old little girl goes missing. What happened to Breasia and what is being done about her case? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'm Nancy Grace, and I want to thank you for being with us here. Take a listen to our friends at KWQCTV6. Police have not released a lot of information on what the situation is here. They told us that 10-year-old Briesia Terrell has not been seen since the early hours this morning.

She was last reported seen in the area of East 53rd Street in the early hours. They didn't say what time she was last seen or what was the circumstances at the time. So there are a lot of unanswered questions here. We are working to find out, you know, if there's anything more to this. But all I've said at this time is that she was last seen wearing a white T-shirt, shorts, and flip-flops. They are asking anyone who has information on her whereabouts to call 911. Again, we are in the area of East 53rd Street by Lorton Ave. And this is where police say she was last seen in the early hours of this morning. You know, my children are 12, my twins, John David and Lucy. I'm thinking about them at age 10. If they were lost, they really, as much as I've tried to drill it into them, they really wouldn't know what to do. They're

completely defenseless. And I'm thinking of her in her little shorts and her white T-shirt and her flip-flops and the pictures of Brazia that I look at. She's just the prettiest little girl with the big, beautiful, perfect smile, very photogenic. And in the midst of COVID-19 and Ghislaine Maxwell and all the news stories that are hitting the headlines, somehow this little girl has gotten lost in the sauce. A 10-year-old defenseless little girl. Again, thank you for being with us. let me give you the tip line right off the top it's 309 762 9500 309 762 9500 got an all-star panel with me to break it down and put it back together

again first of all jason oceans attorney joining us with the tri-state area, New York, New Jersey. He's weighing in. And not only that, Dr. Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist, joining me out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Karen Smith joining me from L.A., forensics expert. We met on a recreation of a crime scene. Host of Shattered Souls. And joining me right now, special guest from the Quad City Times, Davenport, Iowa, reporter Tom Lowy. Tom Lowy, let me start at the beginning. Who is this little girl, Breasia?

This little girl is a basketball player. She's a typical 10-year-old. She's really into social media and likes to make dance videos with her mom. Tom, can I ask you a question? For a typical 10-year-old. Do you have children? I have a 13-year-old in my life, yes. So you know, when you say a typical 10- my daughter sure my little lucy is constantly making dance videos there she's really good too but i mean it's constant there's tiktok there's

there's just so many and that's the thing right now making dance videos videos. I'm looking at Briaesha and she's stunning. And when you say she plays basketball, you know what goes into that? My daughter is on volleyball. My son plays basketball and soccer. You're at every game. You try to practice with them. I've been hit in the face with a volleyball so many times I can't even count it because they're your world. What they do, I want to do. And I'm just thinking of the mom who is trying to find her daughter as we speak. And suddenly she's just gone. And you know, to Dr. Angela Arnold, when I first heard about Breasia, I imagined going into the twins' room, and they're just gone. And I don't know where they are, and I don't know what happened to them.

But that's what the mother's going through right now. Just totally gone. Like somebody went, bzzz. And their whole, they're gone. It just ended in thin air. And you keep, and no one can find them. And it just goes on and on. It's almost as if you enter a...

One time I lost my little girl in a store when I was shopping. You're a bad mom. She was hiding in some clothes racks. I almost lost my mind. Everybody in the store started helping me, started looking for her to help me find her. And everything flashed through my mind. Everything. All of the worst case scenarios flashed through my mind. And all she was doing was playing in between some racks of clothes. Well, you know what? John David went missing in a giant Toys R Us or Babies R Us, Babies R Us, giant warehouse.

And all I could think about was Adam Walsh, his mom. Rive was on one aisle. He goes missing just a few aisles away. And then the children, when I would take them to an actual mall, I'd be a nervous wreck. Finally, we started doing exactly what your daughter did. And I would tell them, okay, hide and I'll come find you. And they would hide in clothes racks. And I could see their feet and their little clogs sticking out.

And I know where they were. And they'd stay hidden while I looked for clothes for them. So at least I would know where they were. And I'm just thinking about this, Mom. Let me go back to Tom Lowy, Quad City Times, Davenport, Iowa. Tom, how do you just lose your daughter? What happened? In this specific case, the mother's name is Aisha Lankford.

Yeah. And Breasia went with her brother to visit his dad, right? His father's. Yep, his father's house. Oh, my goodness. And she goes missing from there. Exactly. Oh, Tom Loewy, Quad City Times.

That's a whole other layer of me being upset. Because you know what that means? Jason Oceans, you've raised two incredible children. And I give all the credit to your wife. No offense, but I know her. She's incredible. You're out, you know, in one courtroom after the next and your children have somehow managed to turn out incredible. But do you hear what he just said? Tom Lowy, the Quad City Times. So Bria G goes with her little brother to visit the brother's dad.

So that means the mom's letting go of a little bit of control. It's like me letting Lucy go to a spend the night party. I hate every second of it. And then she goes missing from there. So you're constantly berating yourself. I shouldn't have let her go. He wasn't watching her well enough. Why did I do this?

Do you remember the first time your daughter went to a spin the night? Oh, my. Nancy, that, you know, that fear, that anxiety that everyone has described on the panel, and as you described, you know, thinking of Breesha, it's so frightening. Everything passes through your mind. It's almost like you just want to blink, go to sleep, wake up, and everything's okay. You know what, Jason? You and I have discussed this many times on a dark set at Court TV.

That's just how I felt when my fiance was murdered just before our wedding. I would wake up in the morning and just for maybe three or four seconds, I'd think everything was okay. Then I'd think, wait, wait, wait, wait. And then it would hit like a ton of bricks. It wasn't a bad dream. It was real. And that's what Bria's mom is going through right now. Tip line, 309-762-9500.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We are talking about a gorgeous little girl, just 10 years old, who goes missing out of Davenport, Iowa. Mom lets her go with the little brother to visit the brother's bio dad. Okay. For a visitation. It was scheduled.

It was planned. Everything was fine. And then for whatever reason, this little girl vanishes into thin air while she's with the brother dad. Take a listen to our friends at KWQC. Michael Teacup. Family says a tip also led authorities to Fedgervary Park Saturday afternoon. Police released a statement Saturday writing, quote, DPD and supporting agencies are working expert-driven and independent search efforts that do not require volunteers.

And as independent search parties are organized separately, police ask if you know anything, call 911. Anybody heard anything, we sure could use assistance. Crime Stoppers of the Quad Cities is now offering a $3,500 cash reward for any information that helps authorities locate Terrell. I'm so blessed to have such an amazing community, especially with everything that's going on right now. An entire community working together to bring a 10-year-old girl home. We're going to keep our resources out until we can help the family find their girl. A $3,500 reward right now in the recovery to help in the recovery of this 10-year-old little girl who seemingly vanishes into thin air.

With me, Jason Oceans, Dr. Angela Arnold, Karen Smith out of L.A., and Tom Lowy, Quad City Times, Davenport, Iowa. Reporter, back to you, Tom Lowy. I want to give the facts as we know them right now to Karen Smith, our forensic expert and host of Shattered Souls, so she can analyze along with me what we believe the cops should be doing right now. And I mean

that in a supportive way, not to say the cops are doing anything wrong, but the two of us have handled so many missing children cases that sometimes when you have a police force that hasn't dealt with homicides or searching for bodies or searching for living children, there's a lot of tricks to the trade. So Tom Loewy, we know that she was last seen in this location, but was she in or outside of a home? Was she still wearing the same outfit? Was she at a playground? Was she at a park? Was she at a body of water? Was she on a hiking trail? Was she attended wearing the same outfit? Was she at a playground? Was she at a park? Was she at a body of water? Was she on a hiking trail?

Was she attended with an adult? What do we know about the last time that she was seen alive by an independent witness? And we'll start our timeline right there, Tom Lowy. We know very little, in fact, and that's been the problem at the start of the case, is that she goes over to Henry Earl Dinkins home. It's a home where he was sharing with someone. It's not actually his home. So they go to this address. Whoa, whoa.

Hold on. Tom Lowy right there. Sorry to interrupt you, but the little brother bio dad, Henry Earl Dinkins, shares the home. You mean he lives with a woman or he has roommates? Who lives in that home? Because it would be a cold day in H-E-L-L that I sent my child somewhere where I didn't know who all was there. Maybe the mom did know. So do we know who lived in the home with dad?

Because that would be the first place I looked is who's in the home. That's not clear. That's not clear at this time. And you know what, Tom Lowy? I don't like that either. You think it's a girlfriend? Okay. That statistically is better than having a male roommate as far as looking at crimes, Karen Smith, if it's a girlfriend, a live-in, a fiance, a wife in the

home, that statistically normalizes the situation as opposed to like three men living together. It's a mess. It's confusing. They're there. They're not there. It's just a whole different scenario. Not to be stereotypical. That's statistically true. Isn't it true to you, Karen Smith, that women statistically commit a vast, a vast percentage lower violent crimes than men? Yes, absolutely, Nancy. And my biggest question right now at the start of this investigation is who had care and control of this child? Was it the possible woman that was living there? Was it Henry Dinkins?

Who had care and control of this child? That is where your timeline starts. And when you have a missing child, the timeline is crucial. When was the last time she was seen? When was the last communication she had? Who saw her? Where was her brother? Was he there as well?

These are the questions I start asking. That's a really good question to Tom Lowy, Quad City Times, Davenport, Iowa. Tom, is the little boy, the little brother, okay? Has he been accounted for? The little brother is accounted for. Yes, he is. That's a big piece of the puzzle, Tom Loewy, and I'll tell you why. I mean, I'm just analyzing this very objectively. I got a big problem, Jason Oceans, with the fact that nobody can tell me the last time the little girl was

seen alive. I'm talking about Bresia Terrell, because the adult male, the stepfather, so to speak, should be able to tell me, I let her go outside to play in the backyard. I let her go jump on the trampoline. I let her and her little brother walk to the 7-Eleven one block away. They were at their grandma's. You should be able to tell me, I can tell you, Jason Oceans, exactly the last time I saw the twins and what they were wearing, all right? Right down to their undies because I laid them out myself.

So what I'm saying is, why can't he tell me the last time he saw the little girl? Why can't anybody tell me exactly who is living in the home? Because in my mind, they're all persons of interest, Jason. Nancy, everybody. I mean, spoken like a well-prosecuted, seasoned investigator, that's exactly where we're looking at. Where is the custody and control as it was turned over with a breaching going over with her brother? Who is now responsible? Who stepped up and said, all right, I got it. You know, directing if you're busy or occupied for the moment, who's the responsible adult or, you know, who's minding them?

You know, everybody, what went on? What was going on there that would allow this young girl to go missing? I'm getting a little clarification right now. Tom Lowy, I'm just getting a wire. Tom Lowy joining me, Quad City Times in Davenport, that the dad is now saying he put her to bed and that when he went to get her up, she was gone. That's what he said. Yes, I believe that's the story. Okay.

Okay. That is the story. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about a little girl disappearing now from her own home, the home of her, I will term him as stepdad, is Henry Earl Dinkins. Now, we know that children have gone missing from their own homes before. And that would be, just to throw it out that everybody knows, Elizabeth Smart, right? Haley down in Florida. Isabel in Texas. I mean,

Isabel Solis. there are so many, Daniel Westerdam out in California, Daniel Van Dam, missing from their own home. So it does happen. Statistically, not so much. So of course, to Jason Oceans, your defense attorney in court, you can't bring in statistics. That is disallowed because you cannot compare an individual case to statistics that have been rounded up across the world. But you and I know statistically, a child does not go missing from their own home. It does happen, but not so much. Agree, disagree? No, no, I agree with you, Nancy. I mean, you know, statistics are quite telling and give guidance to investigators and sometimes prejudice in what you're looking at, but

they generally overall measure out and that becomes the barometer for, you know, prosecution and good investigation. It's just telltale. You're right, a barometer. That you know, prosecution and good investigation. It's just a telltale. A barometer. That's a good way to put it, Jason Oceans. It's a barometer. Because when I hear missing from their own home, I immediately get suspicious of everybody in that home. Because this child didn't just walk out on her own in the middle of the night.

Take a listen to our friends at KWQC-TV6. This is Michael Tilka. The search for missing 10-year-old Briesia Terrell continues, entering day three on Sunday. She was last seen Friday morning in the 2700 block of East 53rd Street, wearing a white t-shirt, flip-flops, and shorts. As the search for her whereabouts grows more desperate by the moment, her mother says no tip is too small. I don't know anything, and if anyone can help, it could be the smallest detail you may think. Friday afternoon, authorities focused in on the lagoon at Credit Island.

With a boat on the water and investigators nearby, family gathered looking on. Police declined to say what brought them there or whether foul play is involved in Terrell's case. Again, we're working with the family on potential areas that she may be or may have been with friends and those kind of things. So we're checking different areas and we're going to continue again working with the family until we, you know, come up with a little girl. Just stop, stop everything. Lagoon at Credit Island? They didn't just decide to go search a lagoon something led the police to that lagoon with me special guest tom loewe quad city times davenport iowa tell me about the terrain surrounding dinkins henry earl dinkins the stepdad home and the proximity from his home to the lagoon at Credit Island. Imagine Davenport sitting on the Mississippi River,

and much of Davenport sits up on a hill. So you drive down the hill, and you're on the Mississippi River. Credit Island is a more remote portion of Davenport. It is pretty heavily wooded for the most part, and it's kind of a peninsula that juts out on the Mississippi River. And in the island, contained within the island, is a separate lagoon. And it is fed by the Mississippi River, but there's an area that's enclosed by land that is water. So you want to imagine Davenport is part of a metroplex, so it's a heavily populated area, but Credit Island is a more remote portion of the city near the city border, you know, near the city line. I'm liking everything you're saying, Tom Lowy, because you're giving me information that I didn't know.

What's flying through my mind, Tom Lowy, I just took the twins on an RV trip across the country because of COVID. No hotels, no people, no restaurants. And one of the things we did was went to the confluence where the mighty Mississippi meets the muddy Missouri right there. And we had to hike through. I mean, I needed a machete to get to where we were going, dragging the twins with me. In fact, it was so dense at one point we turned around like this. This may be reckless of me dragging them through this. And then we they wanted to go so badly. We went back and we found it. But that's what's going through my mind and if you don't mind tom it's not you it's me i just want to hear everything

you just said but tell me how would you get from his place henry earl dinkins place to the lagoon at credit island would you have to take a watercraft to get there, or is there a bridge? No, actually, so it's also a park area. So it's got heavily wooded and grassed areas, but it's also a park area where some of that's cleared out. And there's a ringed road that takes you in a ring around Credit Island, and in fact, around the lagoon. So it is easily accessed by car, by vehicle, and then to get into the wooded areas or to go down to the lagoon. So on one side you have the lagoon, and essentially on the other side of the road the Mississippi is flowing by.

So it's, if you can imagine a ring kind of situation. And in that area, in some of those areas, like on the outer part of the ring, there are wooded, heavily wooded areas, and then a lot of tall grass is what you'll find. So it's a partially finished, kind of crudely developed area. It's got some shelter areas where there's picnic benches. I'm sure you're familiar with those kind of developments. Right. And you told me a lot of good information right there as well, because I now know that Credit Island and this lagoon is accessible by vehicle, which makes it a lot more of a possibility of a dumping ground.

And I hate to even put her name, Breasia, in the same sentence of dumping ground. But I guarantee you there's a reason that police are searching that lagoon, and it's not good. crime stories with nancy grace guys in the last minutes we have gotten an update take a listen to police chief Paul Sikorski with the Davenport, Iowa PD. We have identified Henry E. Dinkins as a person of interest related to this case. A person of interest is different than a named suspect. A person of interest is someone who has not been arrested or formally charged in this case, but may have information that could assist with the investigation or possess certain characteristics that merit further attention by our investigators. Dinkins is currently in custody on other charges related to a sex offender registry violation.

We are asking the public's assistance today for any information regarding Dinkins and associated vehicles during the time frame of Thursday, July 9th from 10 p.m. to Friday, July 10th at 12 noon. Right now, I just almost feel physically sick. Back to Tom Lowy, Quad City Times, Davenport, Iowa. Reporter with me, Karen Smith, Dr. Angela Arnold, and Jason Oceans. Tom, so the stepdad of sorts is a sex offender? What kind of sex offender? It is clear that he is someone who has had a lot of trouble with the law.

It is a sex offense against a young person. It was in 1990. So we're talking a couple of decades ago. It is clear that his status as a sex offender, I should say it's not clear if his status as a sex offender was widely known. It was known by Breasia's mother. It was known by Breasia's mother? Yes, ma'am. Okay, to you, Dr. Angela Arnold, as much as I want to come down on the mom right now, do you notice that when, okay, here's an example, and it's my example. I was trying to bust a triple homicide, and one of my informants, confidential informants, was a sex offender.

He had committed a rape several years before. He now had a job. He was living a rape several years before. He now had a job. He was living a regular life. And I mean several years, like in this case, maybe 10, 20 years before. I would get in the car alone with him much. I'm 5'1". You know that, Dr. Angie. And he's much bigger than me, worked out, had biceps like a Virginia ham.

And we would go alone all over the city of Atlanta when I was prosecuting felonies in inner city Atlanta from the beginning of the morning until late 11 o'clock at night trying to find particular witnesses that could help me crack a triple homicide. And I got to know him, and I got to like him. And I asked him about his sex offense and he went oh she was 16 and I was 18 and that's what happened and I pled guilty and okay I I lulled myself into a sense of security yes befriended him and he helped me crack the case. So that's what happened. Here's my question. Sorry for the long buildup. Do you find people lull themselves into a false sense of security? Well, of course they do. I believe that that's why the mother let the little girl go over there. I would love to know how many times she's gone over there before, wouldn't you?

Is this just a typical behavior that she just goes and spends the night with her little brother? You know, that's a really good question. Yeah, she may have discounted it. And another thing, you know this, Jason Oceans, New York defense attorney. Guys, we're talking about a missing little 10-year-old girl, Bresia Terrell. The person of interest, her stepfather, as I am calling him, Henry Earl Dinkins. He is the biological father of Bresia's little brother. And the mom let her go visit, which she may have done in the past.

Jason Oceans, defense attorney, joining me out of New York. Jason, I remember trying to get a hold of a defense attorney about a motions calendar the following Monday morning. It's about six o'clock on Friday and a woman answered the phone. I'm like, look, I got to find him. I got to find him now because he's got to be in court 8 a.m. Monday morning. And I told the judge to try to reach him. Where is he? Guess where he was? He was at a strip bar with his clients, his dope clients, the magic city. Yeah. And you know what? You hang around with people and suddenly they seem normal to you. There was this upstanding lawyer with a bunch of dopers at a strip club, not judging the strip club and judging the dopers. But Jason, when you're around your clients, you've got to be careful.

You've got to be really careful that their norm doesn't become your normal. Well, that's so true, Nancy. I mean, you know, years of defense and having been on the prosecution side for a year, you understand that. And, you know, your guard is always up. There's always that spidey sense tinkling about something. The interesting thing, though, about the arrest back in, you know, the indictment and conviction back in the 90s for the sex offense,

usually recidivism in sex offenders particularly happens at a high rate within six months to a year. You know, love to see the rest of that criminal arrest record relative to another sex offense. I know a little bit more about it, and this may really paint the entire picture with a different stroke. I know that Dinkins, a registered sex offender, was convicted at age 17. He was a teen, but he sex abused a female victim under age 13. Now, that's a big difference. 17, 16, 17, 15. It's still bad.

But under 13, that's a 12-year-old little girl at best. Guys, take a listen to Davenport iowa pd press conference this is police chief paul skorsky we're learning more we are requesting any information the public may have on dincoln's whereabouts in the quad cities area during that time frame he is also known to have previous connections to the Comanche and Clinton area. Vehicles associated with Dinkins include a 2007 maroon Chevy Impala, a 2012 black Chevy Camaro, and a 1980s King's Highway motorhome. All of these vehicles are currently impounded and in the possession of investigators. If the public has any information regarding the whereabouts of Dinkins or these vehicles between the time frames that I mentioned, so between the hours of 10 p.m. on Thursday, July 9th, and noon Friday,

July 10th, we ask they call 911 immediately to share this information with investigators. Karen Smith joining me from L.A., forensics expert, host of Shattered Souls. Karen Smith, what the police chief just said is scaring me, and I'll tell you why. Remember the little girl I told you that was stolen from her home in California? While her parents slept, by the way, they were right there down the hall, Danielle Van Dam, I stumbled on the name, the defendant was David Westerfield, who was a neighbor. And he took the little girl, molested and killed her in his motor home, his RV. And having just come off an RV trip, I would go walking with the twins while John David rode his bike in all these RV parks. I did not let them go out by themselves, of course. And I got to know the look of a lot of RVs.

They stick with you when you see them. But I want your take as a forensics expert, based on knowing they're looking at a lagoon, that they've impounded these three vehicles, and now they're asking the public, have you seen these three vehicles? And where did you see them? Analyze that information for me, Karen Smith, forensically.

That tells me a lot. Yeah, it tells me a lot, too. Let's start with the lagoon area. I was going through some photos the photojournalists were taking while the investigators were there, and one stood out to me. There was a photo that showed an investigator bending over what looked like a tripod. Now, when you bring out a tripod and you're at a crime scene, that to me screams either shoe impressions or tire impressions. It didn't look like a vehicle could get down in this area. So it's probably shoe impressions in that area. There's class characteristics, the brand, the size, identifying characteristics. These are accidental, unpredictable results like

wear patterns and defects in the shoes. So if they're photographing shoe impressions, that's a good possibility that could lead them forensically to a shoe or a tire track. Now that they have all three of these vehicles impounded, if they do have tire tracks in that area, they can go back and do comparisons with the tires, the width of the wheelbase, the type of tire, the tread pattern, things like that. They're also going to be looking in those vehicles for any, I mean, forensic evidence here. Your broad blanket, you've got everything from DNA to hairs, fibers, fingerprints, dirt that may be caked on the undercarriage and in the tires. So they're really going to have to go through all three of those vehicles with a fine tooth comb. You know, the fact that they're searching this lagoon, they're putting out the description of

the vehicles down to the color, the make, the model, and asking where you've seen them. The vehicles, including the motorhome, are all in impound, which tells me they've been processed. Did cops find something in those vehicles that make them believe Breja was killed or transported or molested in one of those three vehicles? And if cops can find out where the vehicles were spotted, then they can find this child dead or alive. Weigh in Karen Smith. That's exactly right. Anything that links Brescia Terrell with the last known operator of those vehicles, they're going to be looking for within that car. They're going to have to spray. Unfortunately, they're going to have to spray aluminum.

And you and I know what that means. You know, there's all kinds of things that they're going to have to do with a fine-tooth comb, photography, light sources. It may be a very, very small piece of evidence, a hair for all we know, that could link Breasia with one of those vehicles. And if they are impounded, it either means they have already processed them or they're just waiting in line because it takes time to go through each vehicle. It's not like a one and done.

It does take time to go through a vehicle. It's not like a one and done. It does take time to go through a vehicle like that. And not only that, it depends on just think about the Jennifer Dulos case. Okay. The missing Connecticut mom of five, her hair found in the back seat of her estranged husband's employee's vehicle. Why? Why would her hair be in the back seat of an employee's vehicle so it's not just finding bryeja's hair or some type of dna touch dna in the vehicle where she may have innocently been to go to the store or to go to a restaurant but where it's located is it in the trunk why would her hair be in the trunk Those are what cops are looking for in those three impound vehicles. To Tom Lowy, joining me, Quad City Times, Davenport, Iowa.

Tell me about the search that's being conducted for Breasia Terrell. Okay, so far the search has been very much centered on Credit Island and a place called Fedgevery Park, which is a park area up on the hill in Davenport, kind of up from the river. And it's not clear why Fedgevery Park. I've been told by the mother that it was a place where he might have gone at other times. So they were kind of looking at places that he was familiar with, but that's the extent of, and then just down from Credit Island,

Credit Island is on what's called River Drive. And there was an area on River Drive in Concord, which is just down from Credit Island. There was some search going on there. That was Monday night, and that search did not, as far as we know, police have not commented, but certainly Breasia wasn't found there. You know, what you said is very telling, Tom Lowy, in many ways, because you said this is a place, according to your conversations with Bria's mom, that he has gone in the past.

Think back, Tom Lowy. For instance, when we want to define Lacey Peterson's body and Connors, her unborn child, where do we go? Where her husband, Scott Peterson, his fishing hole, San Francisco Bay. And sure enough, that's where she was. You find that perps hide bodies and evidence or retreat to a place that is familiar to them. So what you just said is incredibly probative. The tip line for this little girl, 309-762-9500. We wait and pray as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.