Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - 11 victims brutally murdered and buried on a sandy stretch of beach. Who is the Long Island Serial Killer?

Episode Date: February 5, 2020

11 victims are brutally raped, murdered and buried in Long Island. The sister of one of the women murdered by the suspected Long Island Serial Killer (LISK) says she feels optimistic that a new piece of evidence might lead to a development in the nearly decade-old investigation.Joining Nancy Grace to discuss: Melissa Cann: Sister of victim Maureen Brainard-Barnes John Ray: Attorney for victim Shannan Gilbert   Shera LaPoint : Genetic Genealogist, The Gene Hunter,   Bruce Johnson: Owner of ISP Investigations & Master Sgt Region One Crime Scene Commander, Chicago Metro Area (Ret)   Dr. Michelle Dupre: South Carolina Medical Examiner & Author of “Homicide Investigation Field Guide”  Dr. Caryn Stark: Psychologist  Ellen Killoran: Investigative reporter at CrimeOnline.com Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. One woman goes missing, then a second, third, fourth, up to 11. It was really only by happenstance that the first body was found there along a stretch of beach, Long Island? Now known as the Long Island Serial Killer, still no resolution. But in the last days, is there a break in the case? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Today, we are releasing the first piece of new information that will be featured on the website.

A significant piece of evidence found at one of the crime scenes along Ocean Parkway. A black leather belt embossed with the letters H.M. or W.H. was recovered during the initial stages of this investigation. We believe that the belt was handled by the suspect and did not belong to any of the victims. We are not providing the specific location where the belt was found and additional information on this item will not be available at this time. However, we do anticipate releasing photographs of the belt via gilgonews.com when appropriate. You are hearing Geraldine Hart speaking at a Suffolk County press conference. 11 women that we know of dead along the same stretch of beach. Found buried. Again, in total, the remains of 11 victims found buried on the same stretch of beach, Long Island.

Obviously, the same person or group of people had to commit these murders. Why are they still unsolved? Now the FBI joining in late breaking development, a belt embossed with the letters HM or upside down WH found, obviously not belonging to any of the female victims. Why is it just being found? And what, if anything, will it mean to cracking the case of this serial killer? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. With me, an all-star panel, Ellen Kaloran, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, psychologist joining us from Manhattan, Dr. Karen Stark, South Carolina medical examiner, author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide, Dr. Michelle Dupree. Owner, ISP Investigations, former crime scene commander, Chicago,

Bruce Johnson. Genetic genealogist, the gene hunter, Cheryl LaPointe. Special guest joining me now, John Ray, lawyer, a victim, Shannon Gilbert, and Melissa Kan, the sister of victim Maureen Brainerd Barnes. Melissa, thank you so much for being with us. And first to you, do you remember when you learned Maureen was dead? Oh, yeah. January 24th of 2011. What happened? The Suffolk County police detectives show up to my house and they came and they sat us down and positively identified Maureen as one of the victims. How long had she been gone? For three and a half years. And I guess during those three and a half years you imagine all sorts of things that she took off that she didn't want to be found but in the back of your mind you had to know something horrible had happened. Oh yeah I

knew right away when she didn't come home because she wasn't one that just kind of randomly left and didn't come back home. But also I kind of knew because I also saw that she wasn't responding to anybody's calls, and that was unlike her because she was very talkative. Did she have any children? Yeah, she had two. Two children. What were their ages when Maureen went missing? One and eight.

Oh, my stars. Oh, my stars. Who has the children now? Their fathers. Let me ask you a question. Joining me, the sister of one of the Long Island serial killers victims, Maureen Brainerd Barnes. With me, Melissa Cain. What do you make of the discovery of this black belt

with initials either HM or WH? I'm hopeful that it will lead to someone to come forward to remember it. I think it's the first, like, hope we've had in this case for a long time. I don't want to seem like kind of suspicious on the police on why they really decided nine years later I trust that the fact that they held this evidence as if they needed it in their investigation

but I'm no matter the years that went by, I'm just happy that maybe this could be the break that we need in this case. With me, sister of serial killers victim Maureen Brainerd Barnes, Melissa Kan, to CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter Ellen Kaloran. How long have authorities had the belt? When was it discovered? It was discovered in the very early stages of the investigation. So they've had it for at least nine years. Why are they just releasing the information now? How is that going to help? I mean, anyone that knew someone that owned a belt like that may have moved, have forgotten, or even did. Yes, Nancy, police haven't given a specific answer

as to why they waited as long as they did to release the photos of this evidence. That was the very first question that every reporter in the room had after Commissioner Geraldine Hart made the disclosure. What she said is only that the investigation is constantly evolving and that authorities are continuing to reevaluate based on the evidence that they follow and the facts of the investigation is constantly evolving and that authorities are continuing to reevaluate based on the evidence that they follow and the facts of the investigation. Also, it's been nine years, and during that time, there have been a number of leadership changes within the highest

ranks of Suffolk County law enforcement. Geraldine Hart has only been commissioner since 2018. Well, I'm glad to hear there's been a reshuffling of people in power, but I mean, Bruce Johnson, why in the world? You're a former commander of crime scenes, Chicago, owner now of ISP Investigations. Bruce Johnson, you're trying to solve a serial killer string of murders, 11 women that we know of, innocent women dead in shallow graves along the same stretch of beach why in the world would they have not put that on tv and newspapers on the internet when it first happened i'm not blaming them they're not the murderers but anyone that may have recognized it is long gone by now exactly i don't want to blame them either because usually when you're doing these type of cases

you're going to have command briefings you're going to have all types of different things. But over a nine year period, the thing that I would question is the press conference for the are you not releasing all the information on the belt? Which victim was it, you know, related to? They don't show the whole size of the belt. They don't, you know, they zoom in on a close-up of the initials. So you need to have an establishing shot of the belt, which I'm sure they do. Is it a 34, 38, 42-inch belt? What's the make if there is a belt? Was it made in China? Does it stand made in the USA? So I'm just saying, if you're going to have a press conference and announce the belt, why are they withholding the information? We're not going to tell you which victim. Well, what victim that belt was found could be very important wait a minute hold on you're bringing up an incredibly good point to john ray attorney for the family of another victim shannon gilbert so i i was happy when ellen calorin told me that they had released

information about the black belt with these initials. Then I was in despair when I found out. They've known about it for years. Now they're not. John Ray, you're a very well-known lawyer. Is this true? They're not telling any more information as to, for instance, by which body the belt was found? Nothing more? Yes, they have told nothing more,

and they have deliberately said they would not tell anything more than what the commissioner said and the photos up close of the initials. They took the photo upside down and right side up, as it were, and published that. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. The Suffolk Police Commissioner said the killer left a black belt at one of the multiple scenes where bodies were dumped with the initials H.M. or W.H. on it. We believe that the belt was handled by the suspect. A law enforcement source who worked on the Gilgo Beach case told me that the initials embossed on the inside of the black belt are about a half inch high. And he said the handiwork looks like something you might have found done at a shopping mall in the 80s or 90s. The initials on the belt have caused a frenzy of speculation, with some web sleuths tying the initials to a friend of disgraced Chief James Burke. Burke went to prison in 2016 for beating up a drug-addicted suspect who stole a stash of porn and sex toys from the chief's official police car.

Burke was released last year. Okay, now we're getting politics dragged into this. I guess John Ray, attorney for the family of serial killer victim Shannon Gilbert. You probably don't give a flying fig about some police chief in the past allegedly having a stash of porn in his car. Do I like it? No, I don't like it. Could it have come from a case? I don't know where it came from, and I don't care. All I care about is the possibility of finding the person connected to this belt. John Ray, how is Shannon Gilbert's family taking the announcement that a belt has been there and the cops sat on the information all these years?

Well, the family is upset, of course, and wondering why this was withheld from the public, along with the 911 tape, or tapes actually actually four of them uh involving shannon on the evening she and morning she disappeared including shannon's voice for 23 minutes i believe well tell me tell me tell me john ray wait a minute wait a minute tell me about a 9-1-1 call from shannon gilbert one of the victims sh Shannon made a call while she was in the house of the John. In that call, she said there was a struggle, and she said, they're trying to kill me, words to that effect, and then ran out of the house of the John, his name was Brewer, and began knocking on doors. Two people called 911, whose door she knocked, and then the next day Brewer also called

911. So there are four tapes. I've tried to get those tapes. I've sued the police department to get those tapes. It's taken years of litigation. They've resisted us relentlessly in court. We got a court order saying, give up the tapes to John Ray. They refused to do it. Instead, they appealed it. We're waiting now for the decision on the appeal, which was submitted finally just last Tuesday. Good gravy. What these victims' families have been through, just to get information, take a listen to our friend at Pix11. This is James Ford. Their search for bodies began after one of the people whose remains were found, sex worker Shannon Gilbert, made a 911 call after running out of a nearby home eight years ago.

She disappeared, and that call led police to search for her. They found four other corpses instead before finding her remains, as well as those of five more mostly women sex workers. THE JUDGE SAYS SHE WAS CONVINCED OF THE RIGHTNESS OF OUR CAUSE. ATTORNEY JOHN RAY SUED FOR THE TAPES AND WON ON BEHALF OF SHANNON GILBERT'S FAMILY. THEY'RE CONVINCED THAT DR. PETER HACKETT, POSSIBLY THE LAST PERSON TO HAVE SEEN

GILBERT ALIVE AND WHO HAD A PHYSICAL REACTION, WAS THE ONE WHO SAID SHE WAS NOT CONVINCED OF THE RIGHTNESS OF OUR CAUSE. ATTORNEY JOHN RAY SUED FOR THE TAPES AND WON ON BEHALF OF SHANNON GILBERT'S FAMILY.

THEY'RE CONVINCED THAT DR. PETER HACKETT, POSSIBLY THE LAST PERSON TO HAVE SEEN GILBERT ALIVE AND WHO HAD A PHYSICAL REACTION WAS THE one on behalf of Shannon Gilbert's family. They're convinced that Dr. Peter Hackett, possibly the last person to have seen Gilbert alive and who had a physical reaction when he was confronted about it, is believed by Gilbert's family to be involved in her disappearance and death. They also suspect that former Suffolk County Police Chief James Burke, who's in prison now on an unrelated charge, may have also been involved. What in the hay? Ellen Kaloran, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter,

it's one thing for the police chief to have porn stashed in his car. It's another thing to suggest he was involved. What did that reporter just mean, that the police chief may be involved? In what capacity, Ellen? Well, there is a lot of speculation among citizens in Long Island and people that know this case very well that he intentionally wanted the FBI away from this investigation. And that is one of the reasons that people have speculated. Of course, there's no evidence to this, but there has been speculation that he had something

to hide he had previously been with a sex worker while he was a member of the force the sex worker had access to his patrol car and his gun so it's this ongoing issue of whether or not okay got it so ellen you're telling me nobody thinks that the police chief was involved in the murders that he was involved in maybe misconduct in how he handled the case take a listen to our friend aaron moriarty 48 hours when the police are looking for shannon with authorities searching this scene police made a grisly discovery they turned up four other bodies wrapped in burlap. Four female victims. They had found so many bodies there.

We could have a serial killer. Discovery of a fifth set of human remains. One body after the other. A disturbing new discovery was made. Bringing the total to eight. Long Island's a popular place to dump people. This is the American version of Jack the Ripper. We got another body and then another one.

When the police find them, they were in some way mutilated. The ninth and possibly 10th victim. They're all sex workers. This is like a horror movie. Like you don't ever think it's gonna happen to you. This is evil. This is an evil place.

You know, I watch all these movies with serial killers and you're like, that couldn't have happened, but it really does happen. And the murderer has not been found. The murderer has not been found. Now, 11 women dead, we believe, at the hands of the serial killer, all buried along the same stretch of beach. To Dr. Michelle Dupree, South Carolina medical examiner, author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Dr. Dupree, is there any way that DNA can be found on these bodies or maybe on this belt?

Nancy, there actually is, especially on the belt. The belt can keep the DNA a lot longer perhaps than some of the bodies if the evidence is gone from there. Actual DNA found on the body after a long period of time is probably less likely, but certainly there may be some still left on the belt. Well, what about if the women were raped, which I believe that they were? Wouldn't DNA still be inside their body cavities? Well, it could be, but DNA is only viable for about 72 hours after the fact that we could get, say, DNA from semen or sperm. Then how is it that cold cases are cracked years later with DNA, Dr. Dupree?

That can be on other substances. It can be on clothing, such as the belt, or in other areas. DNA can also be used several years later to identify someone if it is mitochondrial DNA or something of that nature. It really just depends on those circumstances. Joining me right now, genetic genealogist, the Gene Hunter, G-E-N-E, Gene Hunter. Cheryl LaPointe. Cheryl, thank you for being with us. Explain to me how this belt could identify the Long Island serial killer. Nancy, with the advancement in DNA processing over the last few years,

it's very possible now that even though they had the belt, say, nine years ago, they didn't have the capacity to extract the DNA and put it in what we call SNP files, which is what is used to do investigative genetic genealogy. This new process allows us to put this information in databases that we use to find shared ancestors, just like we do when we search for adoptees. We find shared ancestors, we reverse engineer a tree, and we hopefully find leads that can help investigators solve these crimes. Take a listen as I'm speaking with Robert Coker, author of the book Lost Girls. And they only started to take Shannon's disappearance seriously by around August.

Really, it was May when she disappeared and August when the police start looking for her. But then the most amazing thing happened, Nancy. A cop and a cadaver sniffing dog go looking for Shannon. Months and months after Shannon disappeared, the cop and the cadaver dog find a set of bones along Ocean Parkway, just three miles away from where Shannon disappeared. It's a woman. She's petite, like Shannon, but it isn't Shannon. And within two days, they find three more bodies just about a tenth of a mile apart from each other, evenly spaced, clearly planned out, clearly the works of a premeditated killer. None of these women are Shannon Gilbert. From there, the entire New York media world explodes. The national media world explodes.

There's a serial killer in New York City. Some of these women have been disappeared for three or four years. Nobody knows who he is. The police don't have leads. It's like they've inherited four cold cases. Five of you include Shannon. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We're looking at most likely one serial killer because it would be a little odd that another serial killer also found this great dumping ground. And what does happen with serial killers who dispose of bodies and places that they think won't be found is if they find a good place, nobody's discovered that body. Why look for another place where you could get caught or the body could be discovered? Why not just keep using that same stretch of road? And that's clearly, in my mind, what he did and was very successful at it. If it hadn't been for the peculiar moment of Shannon Gilbert going missing, I think it's just a bizarre

coincidence. That's criminal profiler Pat Brown joining us, explaining why she believes it is a single serial killer. To Ellen Kalora, a CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, obviously these women had been sexually assaulted, murdered, and buried. Was DNA recovered from any of the bodies? And what was the mode of death? Was it the same on all 11 victims? Nancy, authorities have not revealed anything about the DNA, specifically about the DNA evidence that was taken from any of the victims or any of the crime scenes. And also, as far as the mode of death, we know that the Gilgo Ford died of asphyxiation, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they were strangled as has been widely reported.

There's other ways that you can die in that manner. As far as the other victims, some of these victims have not been identified. Only five of the 10 that they have found have been identified. So that is, but they do have DNA evidence from some or all of the unidentified victims because they recently made an announcement that they've given DNA evidence from identified victims to the FBI for further analysis. Okay, wait, I don't understand. At the beginning you said they weren't releasing whether or not there was DNA, but now I'm understanding there is DNA. They just announced a week and a half ago that they have sent DNA

from the five unidentified victims to the FBI for analysis. I wonder if that's DNA as to determining who the victims are or if it's DNA they got from the bodies to determine who the killer is. To Melissa Kan, the sister of one of the serial killer's victims, Maureen Brainerd Barnes. Melissa, what, if anything, have detectives told you about potential DNA? They haven't told us anything about potential DNA. I do know, just because I'm not that I'm privileged to this information, but I know what they're doing with the DNA is actually extracting the DNA from the unidentified bodies and putting them in a database to try to find relatives to try to identify those bodies.

It's kind of a day late and a dollar short. I mean, this is years and years later that they're just now trying to identify the victim's bodies. But John Ray, attorney for the family of victim Shannon Gilbert, that could be because we are just now getting to use familial DNA. So if they're looking to identify family members, maybe that has been the delay, John Ray. What do you know about it? No, I don't know of that being the reason for the delay. The police have been investigating this case apparently actively for the nine years. The question is rather whether their investigation has been sufficient, and that doesn't seem to be so.

Now, there can be a number of reasons for that, but one of the reasons that has just emerged is that Chief of Police Burke, who's convicted now and has served prison time and is out for his corruption. He was in charge of the investigation only days after Shannon was found. He was made chief of police. Before that, he was one of the chief investigators for the district attorney's office. So he had a lot of control over the situation. And he deliberately suppressed any involvement of the FBI, not only in this case, but in all cases involving Suffolk County. So we have that factor. But we also know that,

we know, I've known, and I've reported it to the police a long time ago, and again recently, that Chief Burke ran a, or lived with a woman who ran a prostitution ring from Burke's home on a beeper registered to a Jane Burke at his address. There is no Jane Burke at his address. And this prostitution ring, which I independently corroborated, was ongoing for about 10 years. Good gravy. So if you have a man who's completely addicted to prostitution and he had, he had another prostitute who I represented named Loretta Rickenbacker and Loretta, you know, she, she was with Burke during these years. She had a baby with Burke and during all this time,

none of the police seem to notice this. And yet, during this prostitution era, shall we say, we have this man in charge of investigating dead prostitutes. Take a listen to our friends at CBS News. This is Seth Dunn. Now it's believed the killer may work in or be familiar with law enforcement and how an investigation would unfold. Detectives are focusing on a series of seven disturbing calls from one of the victims' own phone. Police believe that the killer may have made several phone calls to the sister of one of the victims,

from busy places around New York City, like here at Penn Station. The calls were kept short, so if they could be traced, the killer still could not be identified by surveillance cameras. During one call, an unidentified man asks, do you know what your sister's doing? She's a whore. You look for the common denominator, and the common denominator right now is Craigslist. To Ellen Kalora in CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, so the killer knows the victims to the extent that he calls their family? Yes, Nancy, this is one of the most chilling and frustrating parts of this case. That call was made shortly after Melissa Bartholomew went missing from her own phone. And it was

made to her younger sister, who was only a teenager at the time. This person called her about seven times, at least seven times. But police were never able to trace the call, because he was making the calls from busy areas in Midtown Manhattan, and he didn't stay on the phone long enough. To Bruce Johnson, owner of ISP Investigations, former crime scene commander, Chicago metro area, Bruce Johnson, it's believed that all of these women, all 11, were killed elsewhere, then dumped, buried there along the stretch of Long Island Beach. How could cops know that?

Oh, well, on some of the cases, there was actually body parts found at different locations. They had a head at one location and a torso at another. But there's no reason why this case could not be taken over from the FBI. Even if the chief was trying to prevent it with 11 bodies, the FBI could take it over against their will. FBI comes in and takes cases away from local departments all the time, so there's no reason why that couldn't happen. And then the other information as far as evidence is concerned, three of the bodies that were found when they were looking for the one were all in burlap sacks, which is noted and reported. It's important to get that out.

What's the make and description of those burlap sacks? Can you find the manufacturer where they were produced? Can you get a link to a suspect that worked at that factory? So a lot of questions as to why certain things are being released and certain things aren't, but the FBI needs to take it over. Today, we are launching a website dedicated to sharing information with the public about these unsolved murders and also providing a new way for the public to provide us with tips. To that end, we are asking the public to carefully consider the information provided on the website

and whether they may have any information that could bring this case forward. As appropriate, we will share additional information via the website with the hope that with its release, the public will generate new tips and new investigative leads. The website will be dynamic with evolving content posted over time. From the onset there will be a section to enable the submission of tips anonymously should the tipster choose so. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We have leveraged the expertise of our federal partners and are utilizing new scientific advances to expand our investigative capabilities. We were granted approval by the New York State

Department of Health and have provided the FBI with DNA samples from our unidentified victims for the purpose of conducting genetic genealogy. The process includes uploading DNA to public genealogy databases in an effort to identify possible relatives of our unidentified victims. It is not clear how long this process will take. Information about the possibility of other DNA collected during the investigation will not be discussed. Even with these advances in technology, we know that the public remains one of our greatest resources. I encourage anyone who may have information to submit a tip, even if you wish to remain anonymous. The new website can be accessed at GilgoNews.com.

You are hearing Geraldine Hart speaking at a Suffolk County press conference. 11 women dead along the same stretch of beach. Found buried. Late breaking development. A belt embossed with the letters HM or upside down WH. Found obviously not belonging to any of the female victims. What, if anything, will it mean to cracking the case of this serial killer? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. With me, an all-star panel.

To Cheryl LaPointe, genetic genealogist, the gene hunter. Cheryl LaPointe, we're also learning that many cops believe the belt was used to bind the victims, not just a belt that the perpetrator wore on his slacks. How does that increase the likelihood that we may find DNA? Nancy, the DNA on the belt in that case would probably have the perpetrator as well as the victim's DNA if the belt was indeed used to bind the victim. And with the advancements in DNA processing now, it's very possible to separate the two profiles. And that information can be used to put into the CODIS system, see if someone who is already a perpetrator may be connected to the case. If not, it's moved on to familial DNA testing where they look for a possible family member.

And now, to my understanding, that they're going to be using investigative genetic genealogy where it's put into the databases that is used to in the past because they didn't have the investigative genetic genealogy. And if the DNA was put into the CODIS system and there was no hit, then it was of no use to them. But I think it's very possible now that it definitely can lead to finding someone that could be a suspect. Now, when we are talking about familial DNA, that all came about and is now allowed in that jurisdiction because of the slain New York jogger, Karina Vetrano. Her father, a retired firefighter, led the charge to allow familial DNA. In other words, let's just say Jackie Howard robs a bank and shoots somebody. We find the gun. We have DNA on it. There are no eyewitnesses. It's Jackie's DNA. She's not in the data bank. She hadn't committed a crime before. But with familial DNA, her DNA can be put into a larger DNA bank and maybe find relatives of Jackie Howard's blood relatives based on DNA. And then you start there and you investigate until you identify who lives in the area of the bank robbery, who owned a gun by that last name.

It just goes on from there. that's what we're talking about familial dna it's amazing to me that the police sat on the belt for nine years ellen color and crime online.com investigative reporter where was the belt found was it buried was it on the side of the road do we know n, we know so little. The police won't disclose at which crime scene the belt was found. And one thing that I would really like to know is how they were able to rule out that the belt belonged to any of the victims. All that they have said is that the belt was handled by the suspect, and they do not believe that the belt belonged to any of the victims. And I'm very curious to know how they made that determination and what that means.

John Ray, lawyer for family of victim Shannon Gilbert, do you have any answers on that? The only answer I have is what I said before, which is that the initials match a woman that Chief Burke was with who was running a prostitution ring from his home. They match her first and last name. We've informed the police of that. We've asked them to look at that. That's it. There's no more.

The very fact that they are deliberately refusing to reveal anything else can suggest that this was nothing but a public relations stunt because the police were facing our court decision regarding the 911 tapes about to be made and that the Netflix movie was about to come out. And by the way, those things would result in the criticism of the police. Or it could be that the police have a purpose, and one of them is to flush out the suspect or suspects. I don't think it's necessarily just one. And by releasing that information, signaling to the suspects, we know who you are, words to that effect. So it could be that. And I always like to give the police the benefit of the doubt, but it doesn't mean it will work. We wait as justice unfolds to the family of Shannon Gilbert and to Melissa Kann, sister of Maureen Brainerd Barnes, and to all the other families. Our thoughts and prayers with you.

Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.