Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - 16 gunshots caught on secret tapes kept hidden. The Laquan McDonald Story

Episode Date: June 4, 2019

Chicago officer, Jason Van Dyke, fires 16 shots at teenager and robbery suspect Laquan McDonald, killing him in the streets of Chicago. Can an officer on duty be charged with murder? Nancy has the details on the shooting, the video that emerged, and the latest in the case.ANDAspiring Hollywood star, 25-year-old Adea Shabani, leaves her apartment never to be seen alive again. Her body is discovered a month later, hundreds of miles from home. The main suspect is her boyfriend, Christopher Spotz.Nancy's expert panel weighs in:Kenya Johnson:  Atlanta prosecutorDr. Patricia Saunders:  Clinical PsychologistDr. Kris Sperry:      Retired Chief Medical Examiner for the State of Georgia  David Mack:   Syndicated Radio HostDr. William Morrone: Deputy Medical Examiner in Bay County Michigan  Ashley Willcott:  Juvenile Court Judge & Trial AttorneyJoseph Scott Morgan: Forensics expert,Dr. Caryn Stark:  Pshycologist Leigh Egan:  Crimeonline.com investigative reporter Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. And again, I'm home, Mayor. I'm calling you to help with a 15-rob asking for a teaser for Arm Defender Winner Night. We just, uh, popped our tire on our car, squad. Popped. 10-4, anybody close? 4-0, they're more by car.

45 Robert, we're about two blocks away. 45 Robert, 10-4 again, First unit with them, let me know. 15 Robert, call up good, or you guys more by Plesky now? Right, going right to the hurricane. Headed to the hurricane. Robert, I see you pulling up. 21 Robert, where are you now? 21 Robert, 10-4.

41 Robert, go ahead and hit 5. 41 Robert, 10-4. He is on his way. Let me know when he is in custody, guys. He's fired by the police. He's fired by the police. He's fired by the police. He's over here. Charlie, got you going. You guys okay? I think so. I think so.

I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so.

I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. You're hearing the 911 call the night that a teen, a 17-year-old, is gunned down. Joining me right now, syndicated talk show host Dave Mack. Dave, what happened? Police were called because there was a report of a young person breaking into cars with a knife. Multiple police converged on the scene. And when we first see the, you can hear on that 911 or the

dispatch calls back and forth between law enforcement and dispatch, that they drive through a parking lot of a Burger King. That's on the dash cam video that we can see as Laquan is trying to run away from the police. Okay, stop right there. Stop right there. You're telling me in the video you see the 17-year-old running from police? Yes, ma'am. You actually can see him run directly in front of one of the dash cam videos that clearly shows him sprinting through the Burger King parking lot. Why was he running from police? Well, they were called because they had a report that there was somebody breaking into cars and that the perpetrator allegedly had a knife.

That was the first call. When police arrived, he took off. What I'm trying to determine is whether he was a threat. Kenyon Johnson, Atlanta prosecutor, when you have a fleeing felon, if they pose a threat, like they're firing a gun or they're armed and dangerous, that allows police to shoot them. In this case, I'm not hearing that. I'm hearing he was breaking into cars. If he's alleged that he had a weapon on him, then that certainly is a threat for police. But where this changes is that the young man was walking away from the police. Hold on. Hold on, Kenya. Kenya Johnson.

You know, you've had a lot of courtroom success, but let me give you a little phrase you may want to use in the future. Don't bring a knife to a gunfight, okay? All he has is a knife. The cops are armed. They're armed, and they're wearing bulletproof vests. So he has a knife, and he's running away, as you accurately pointed out. What happened then, Dave Mack? Police surrounded Laquan as he runs through the Burger King parking lot.

He is trying to get away. The police pretty much surround him on three different sides as he walks down the middle of the street. Now, they're yelling multiple commands, drop the knife, you know, get down. And he's not responsive to that. But he's not facing any that, but he's not facing any of them. He's walking away. He's nonchalantly walking away is what is shown on the video from the dash cam. He is surrounded by multiple police officers. That's when officer Van Dyke gets out of the car and within a matter of seconds, start shooting. Now, when you're saying dash cam, not everybody knows what

that means. What is dash cam? Explain. Well, the police officer vehicles actually have a camera that is posted on the dashboard of each vehicle so that you can actually see their perspective, or at least the perspective directly in front of their vehicles as they're responding to a call. And after they're at the scene as we saw in this where it actually gives you a static video of whatever takes place. Joining me Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Joe Scott, why is there such a thing as dash cam video and now body cam video? Well, it helps everybody, you know, so that you can get the story straight. It's a live, real-time videography of the events as the police are witnessing from their perspective.

Generally, for the police officer, the cam is positioned center mass on their chest so that they're looking out. Sometimes they'll have it attached to their head, but most of the time it's on their chest. This gives you an idea as to what they're seeing, and you can get it from multiple perspectives. For instance, in this particular case, there are multiple units arriving on scene. You have both body cam views and you have dash cam views so to you dave max syndicated talk show host what does the video show the video on this one dash cam that we actually clearly shows that laquan is walking down the middle of the street he is and i say this nonchalantly because he's not threatening he's not even sprinting anymore.

He's actually walking down the middle of the street. He is surrounded by police officers, and they know that there's a police officer on the road that has a taser gun. He's not approaching any police. He's just walking down the middle of the street, ignoring them as if nobody's there. Listen. When he got 10 to 15 feet away from you, what did he do? He never lost eye contact.

Um... Guys are bugging how his face was just expressionless. And... He turned his torso towards me. And what did he do with his arm? He waved the knife from his lower right side upwards across his body towards my left shoulder. And when he did that, what did you do, officer? I shot him.

Jason Van Dyke, under oath. To you, Dave Mack, syndicated talk show host, how many times was he shot? Nancy, he was shot 16 times. To Dr. Chris Sperry joining us, retired chief medical examiner. Dr. Sperry, 16 gunshot wounds. What can you tell me about Laquan McDonald's body? He was riddled with gunshot wounds. It's amazing of the 16 times that he was shot, almost all of the gunshots hit his arms and legs. Actually, of the 16, there were only two of the gunshot wounds which produced lethal or potentially lethal injuries. One struck his trachea or the windpipe in his neck, and the other struck his right lung, but the other 14 gunshot wounds struck his arms and legs,

fractured bones, and caused a lot of soft tissue injury. But there were only two that were really ended up being the lethal shot. Dr. Sperry, how does a wound to the trachea or the lung, how does that end up being deadly? It seems to me that, I mean, I'm just a JD, you're the MD. How does that end up in a deadly wound to be shot in the trachea or the lung? Well, a gunshot wound to the lung causes massive bleeding inside of the chest cavity where the lung sits. Because the lung is a giant sponge of blood. And when we breathe, the air goes in the lung and all of the billions of little blood vessels take up the oxygen and take it to our body. So it's a giant sponge and a gunshot wound will tear through the lung and cause massive bleeding. A gunshot wound of the trachea is serious because this is our windpipe.

This is how we breathe to get air down into the lung and this will produce severe bleeding in the airway and unfortunately it will cause someone to actually suffocate on their own blood. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A teen, a 17-year-old, is gunned down, running from police. Listen to ABC7. Van Dyke is the first Chicago police officer to face first-degree murder charges in decades. He was charged on the eve of the video's release, which was more than a year after 17-year-old McDonald was killed. Angelo says the video does not tell the whole story.

I think Officer Van Dyke steps into his training mode and takes action that he believed at that time was justified. Okay, so to you, Dave Mack, how damning is that video? What does it prove? It shows that Laquan was not in any way a threat to the police officers on the scene at the time he was struck. But it shows much more than that. It actually shows that he was shot many, many times after the first shot took him down. There were so many shots after he was laying in the middle of the street, not a threat to anyone. So to you, Joseph Scott Morgan, that's against all police protocol I've ever heard of. Yeah, yeah, it is, Nancy. Once the threat is neutralized at that point, it's, you know, it's pointless to go on.

And it gives you kind of a, you know, it gives people that watch it this idea that the individuals are indifferent to this person's life that it's overkill even in the video for for our fans that have not seen it you can see debris flying up off of the asphalt as as the bullets strike the asphalt so it really paints a very sour picture let me ask you dave mack why did it take a year for the dash cam video to turn up? Nancy, it took 13 months, 400 days, and the police and the city actually fought it. It was only after a judge forced them to release the dash cam video. It was the release of the dash cam video that brought about the charges against Officer Van Dyke. The officer was charged just a matter of hours

before they actually had to release it. They didn't want to release that video. They tried to hold it back to prevent the city and the people from seeing it. I don't understand that. To Kenya Johnson, Atlanta prosecutor, you know, I hate it when there is wrongdoing on behalf of cops. And it's happened with cops that I've used in vice cases before, because it tanks every case they've ever touched. Why? But still, long story short, the state is duty bound to seek justice. Why would they fight the release of the video? Well, the law protects ongoing investigations. So even if you were to file an open records request, as long as the investigation is still open or the agency says it is, then they're not bound to release it. However, those elected officials that run on transparency, that's what the public wants to hear.

And they want to be able to have access to this and so the uh the people that have no problems they're not afraid of what they've done they feel like they're justified then they should just go ahead and release it and allow the public to form their own opinion which ultimately is going to happen anyway take a listen to our friend evelyn holmes at abc7 through his lawyer jason van Dyke entered a not guilty plea in court after prosecutors tacked on 16 more counts in a new indictment in the shooting death of Laquan McDonald. Chicago police officer Jason Van Dyke now faces new charges in the shooting of Laquan McDonald. counts of aggravated battery with a firearm, one for each shot fired at the teenager, were handed down last week by a grand jury following the request of the case's special prosecutor, Kane County Assistant State's Attorney Joseph McMahon, who was appointed in August of

last year. This morning's indictment still includes the six counts of first-degree murder as well as one count of official misconduct that were filed against Van Dyke in November of 2015. The 38-year-old Chicago cop is accused of shooting 17-year-old Laquan McDonald 16 times in October 2014, but wasn't charged until a year later when dashcam video of the incident was released sparking protests across the city and the country. Listen to Officer Jason Van Dyke under oath. What was Laquan McDonald doing?

Advancing on me. And could you see him, his face? Yeah, I could. I won't forget it. What if anything did you notice about his face? His face had no expression. His eyes were just bugging out of his head. He had just these huge white eyes just staring right through me. And did you say anything to him when he was done?

I was yelling at him, drop the knife. I yelled, I don't know how many times, but that's all I yelled. And did he keep advancing toward you? He never stopped. How close did he get to you? He got probably about 10 to 15 feet away from me. To Dave Mack, is that what the video shows? No, ma'am.

And actually, you know when he says that Laquan was advancing on him? If you go back and watch that dash cam video, you can actually see Laquan walking in a straight line down the street. The only person advancing was Officer Van Dyke when he exits the vehicle and continues to approach Laquan. Listen to ABC7. The suspended police officer will have his day in court. Today appears to begin the legal process that will likely result in Jason Van Dyke on trial for murder. The Chicago police officer at the center of a controversial civilian shooting had no comment as he walked into a Cook County courthouse amid heckling from the crowd. Today, Officer Jason Van Dyke pleaded not guilty for the murder of Laquan McDonald.

Video of the shooting gained national attention. McDonald's family wants the court proceedings to also get as much attention. McDonald was shot 16 times last October. Police had been pursuing McDonald for allegedly trying to break into parked cars. Officer Van Dyke, now suspended from the Chicago Police Department, was on the scene for seconds before firing at the 17-year-old. Prosecutors previously alleged some of the shots were fired once the teenager with a three-inch folding knife was on the ground. You can listen to our friends at Fox 32. The Jason Van Dyke jury heard today from two eyewitnesses to the Laquan McDonald shooting. One of them a police officer, Jason Van Dyke's partner.

The other one, a 26-year-old man who just happened upon the scene. While he was on his feet, did you see him make any threatening movements? No. After he's on the ground and you said you heard more and more shots, did you see him make any threatening movements? No, not at all. Xavier Torres' father was driving him to the hospital with flu symptoms when they noticed a lot of police activity and went to see what was going on. Torres told the jury that Laquan McDonald did not appear to be threatening police before he was shot. What did it appear he was doing when he was walking southwest?

It just, again, looked like he was trying to get away from all the officers. Torres' testimony was contradicted by Jason Van Dyke's partner on the night of the shooting. Former officer Joseph Walsh testified that dash cam video of the incident doesn't reflect what he saw. My angle is totally different from that perspective, he told the jury. Well, the jury got to see it for themselves. Listen to this. We, the jury, find the defendant, Jason Van Dyke, guilty of second degree murder. We, the jury, find the defendant, Jason Van Van Dyke guilty of aggravated battery with a firearm, first shot. We the jury find the defendant Jason Van Dyke guilty of aggravated battery with a firearm, second shot. We the jury find the defendant Jason Van Dyke guilty of aggravated battery with a firearm, 16th shot. I'm glad we went for 16 shots.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. aggravated battery with a firearm. First shot. We, the jury, find the defendant, Jason Van Dyke, guilty of aggravated battery with a firearm. Second shot. We, the jury, find the defendant, Jason Van Dyke, guilty of aggravated battery with a firearm. Sixth shot. Okay, let me understand, Dave Mack, what was the sentence? The sentence is what is actually shocking, Nancy. A little over six years on the charge of second-degree murder, along with those 16 counts of aggravated battery being folded into that decision. The judge. Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Six years?

Yes. That's it? That's it. Hold on. Tell me that again. What did you just say? Six years on which count? On the second-degree murder charge. What could he have gotten on second degree murder?

Well, I think with all of the charges, including the 16 aggravated battery charges, he was looking at 60 or 70 years. Okay. What happened to all those ag battery charges? What happened to the sentences on them? Well, what they actually did, the judge, and you'll know a lot more about this than me, but the aggravated battery, the more serious charge on the books, and carried the stiffer penalty. But the judge in this case decided on that murder, the second degree murder, being more serious in the case. So all the convictions, the 16 accounts of aggravated battery, were actually folded into the murder conviction under one act law. That's how they could give him such a short sentence. Okay, I think I know what he's saying. To Kenya Johnson, Atlanta prosecutor, explain.

Well, you've got maximum and mandatory minimums on some murder charges. But in this case, there was no mandatory minimum. So the judge had the full range of sentencing options to include probation if the judge wanted to. Wait, are you telling me that a second degree murder charge in that jurisdiction of Chicago, you can get straight probation for second degree murder? With a six year sentence, it doesn't appear that there's any mandatory sentence and the judge has the ability to suspend or probate or in custody any charge that they want as far as the sentence is concerned. And even though the jury spoke and the community spoke,

what ultimately matters is the judge's opinion. And by this six-year sentence, the judge felt that this defendant was somehow justified in some way to allow for a much lesser sentence than the case required. Take a listen to our friends at box 32 judge vincent gone sentencing jason van dyke to 81 months in prison and two years of mandatory supervision on the second degree murder charges he said he made no judgment at all on the 16 counts of aggravated battery rolling those all into one action and tying them into the second degree murder charges only well there is the theory of merger, okay? And this is what that means.

Let's just say that Dr. Chris Berry breaks into my house and steals, what can he steal? The cat tree, okay? So we have a felony burglary. Doesn't matter what you steal. If you break into a home, enter a home with felonious intent, intent to commit a felony, that's a burglary. Okay, we don't also charge him with criminal trespass. We don't also charge him with attempted burglary because all of those incidents merge into the ultimate indictment on burglary. Okay, so I'm wondering if in this case, the batteries, the aggravated batteries, which would be shooting someone, causing them loss of blood, loss of lung, loss of use of your trachea,

if those did not merge into the second-degree murder. That's what I'm thinking about the one act, the merger law. So what I'm understanding to syndicated talk show host Dave Mack, in addition to second-degree murder, Van Dyke was also convicted on 16 counts of ag battery, one for each shot that was fired. But it seems that the judge did not factor in the aggravated battery counts. No, he didn't. He just folded it all together. And, you know, that's why he said at the beginning, I assume 100 percent of the people are going to be disappointed in this decision. You know, the attorney general, the special prosecutor, they all appealed to get a

stiffer sentence, but all those charges, they were all denied. Well, we also know that minimum maximum on second degree murder in that jurisdiction is four to 20 years. So he did sentence within that, but gosh, well, what about this? Do we know Dave Mack? He didn't fire or did he fire all 16 rounds? According to everything we've seen, Nancy, he's the only one that fired his weapon. So all 16 rounds directly attributed to Van Dyke. Wow. Okay, what can you tell me about the investigation that ensued?

It was a 13-month long investigation into Chicago PD that followed the shooting. Nancy, there were multiple investigations that went on, and as you mentioned, a 13-month investigation into the Chicago Police Department, because you've got to remember that not only did they have the report from Van Dyke of what he claimed happened the night he shot Laquan McDonald, there were other officers on the scene that also filed reports that seemed to corroborate what Van Dyke was claiming happened. And based on what we've seen in the video and what we saw in court, well, somebody wasn't being truthful on what they were backing up. That's what led to the U.S. Justice Department actually reporting some horrible results on what they found out during their investigations into the Chicago PD.

Well, you know, I know that you're saying that all those cops corroborated what Van Dyke says, but that's not what the video says. So, you know, I don't really care what everybody else is saying to try to cover for him. That's not what the video says. Take a listen to our friend Dane Placco, Fox 32. Would you feel safe in prison? Are you concerned about your safety in prison? Yeah, I'm concerned. When I had to go to county jail,

I had to ask for personal protection. I can't remember the exact term. What was it like in county jail? It was horrible. I was in solitary confinement 23 hours a day. When I went out, I had to be the only individual out on the floor. You had an hour to shower, try and make a phone call at 5 or 6 o'clock in the morning to a loved one. They wouldn't let you interact with anybody else?

Couldn't. You were that high a risk? Yes. Now, in the last days, what happened to the cop, Officer Jason Van Dyke, when he was put in jail following the guilty verdict? Well, you know, they actually had him in a jail there not far from Chicago, and they had to move him into a federal prison. It was only a matter of hours after he was moved into a new prison that somehow a number of inmates got to him and apparently, allegedly, beat him up.

Nothing life-threatening, but they let him know that he was not wanted in general population. Dave Mack, is it true that Officer Jason Van Dyke had a long history of allegations of excessive force? Yes, ma'am. For years, Nancy, this guy had over 20 different reports of excessive force or using racial epithets. I mean, we had nine different charges against him from the community where they claimed he used excessive force and nothing was ever done. You know, to Dr. Patricia Saunders, psychologist joining us from New York, why is this so dangerous a precedent? The blue wall has been in place for a very long time. And it's inadequate protection of the public when police are willing to or allegedly falsifying reports of serious crimes committed by police, and they don't monitor themselves adequately. It hurts me so much when a police officer is convicted or suspected of wrongdoing

because I love the system. I'm part of the system, but we can never choose to turn away from injustice and this is injustice he had to be convicted what he did was wrong and it puts a pill on all future cases because people will think of this case to dave mack you mentioned the investigation into the Chicago Police Department following the shooting. It reportedly sparked reform. What type of reform? Well, a number of higher ups in the in the police department were either fired or allowed to retire. The reforms go all the way down to retraining police officers on how to interact with individuals they come into contact with. The results of the investigation, Nancy, are horrific, and you would be shocked to see the level of evidence of racial bias, the evidence of just unchecked violence against the regular citizenry when they came in contact with the police department prior to this happening.

He could be released after just three years. Is that true? And do you believe justice was served? Yeah, three years, Nancy. And no, I'm it makes me sick to my stomach to think that this is what can happen. This is not justice. It's not justice for Laquan. It's not justice for crime stories with nancy grace her name is adea adea shabani beautiful inside and out say her close friends who also say they're worried sick over the 25-year-old, who's been missing since February 23rd. We just pray for her, and hopefully she's going to show up. Her acting teacher saying she'd never missed a class until that fateful day, February 23rd, when she was last seen near her apartment complex on Wilcox and Hollywood Boulevard.

Since then, say sources, her phone has not been used, and the girl who used to post daily on her social media accounts has gone silent. We are talking about a beautiful, beautiful young girl, a missing model. She is, well, a body has been found in a shallow California grave. But what do we know? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

Straight out to CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter Lee Egan. Crime Online, where you can find this and all other breaking crime and justice news. Lee, I want to start with how she goes missing. Tell me that, and then we'll figure out from what we know if this is her in the shallow grave. Well Nancy what we know is at around 11 a.m February 23rd 2018 she sends a text to a friend asking for red candles and then that, nothing. There was no activity on any of her social media accounts. And she was extremely active on all of those. No text messages. Her phone shut off shortly after her last message. And then she's just gone, completely disappeared. Joining me right now,

juvenile court judge, trial attorney. You can find her at AshleyWilcott.com. Ashley Wilcott, that's significant. Now, that doesn't tell me any intricacies or any details of her disappearance, but more and more, cops are looking at your cell phone, your social media. If you're an active poster or you live on your cell phone, you're constantly texting, and then suddenly it goes quiet. That's a big circumstantial piece of evidence. Absolutely. It's a great clue, especially Nancy, given this, we all know that those who enjoy social media don't usually take a break or not do it unless they've gone on a little weekend trip or a vacation, but then they go right back to the social media. So when someone doesn't,

like she didn't on Monday, that's a huge clue that there's a problem. The other thing I have to say is, boy, does it not give you a clue to hear that she reached out to a friend about getting red candles, which to me suggests a romantic weekend, a weekend away with someone special, and then disappears. Wow. I wouldn't think that at all. I would think red candles. Oh, I'm sticking you in a candle holder somewhere that I hope and pray to God the twins never light and burn down the house. You think romantic weekend away. Okay. I'm just going to take that with a box of salt. Take a listen to our friends at KTLA.

This is Rick Chambers. They hit the sidewalk this evening here in Hollywood, getting the word out about Adia Shabani, who disappeared six days ago. I don't know. I don't know what to think. I just want to find her. The 25-year-old actress left her apartment here at the Duet on Wilcox in Hollywood last Friday at about noon, and no one has seen her since which is out of character this is not her this is not her something is going on with her we don't know where

she's it's just so sad we we just hoping she's alive at first friends thought Shabani was just busy but then she missed an important class here at the Stella Adler Theater. So those same friends asked the LAPD to do a welfare check back at her apartment. You know, right there, you're hearing what leads up to the announcement that this beautiful young actress, Adia Shabani, has gone missing. She really is gorgeous. In the acting world, you know, you meet so many different people. You're constantly going for tryouts and auditions. To Karen Stark joining me, psychologist at karenstark.com, joining me today out of New York. You know, Karen, in that line of

business, you're constantly meeting different people at all of these auditions. It's not like a lot of people go to their office every day and they're around the same people every day. So you kind of have a smaller group of people to suspect. When you're out doing auditions, traveling from one place to the next, trying to get a gig, it really widens up the scope of investigation. It does. It definitely does. But she had so many people that she was staying in touch with and so many friends that after a while, she knew enough people that they were worried about her. And I suspect that under those circumstances, they really did

know her and they understood that something was definitely wrong. You know, I'm just thinking about the discovery of a body in a shallow grave. Here is KTTV's Phil Schumann. Listen. A shallow grave. This is about 50 miles north of Sacramento. The LAPD says they believe the remains are Shabani's. That is not 100 percent. They do not yet have a cause of death, though they are saying they believe that Shabani was the victim of a homicide. Let's hear from Captain Hayes. Los Angeles police divers were searching that area and walking the shores. There was a water's edge where they found what they believed

to be a shallow grave. When we checked it, we were able to determine that it contained human remains. But because of the condition of the area, we were not able to recover the body immediately. You know, I want to go out to our friend Dr. William Maroney, deputy medical examiner, Bay County, Michigan, author of American Narcan on Amazon. To Dr. William Maroney, how do you go about identifying remains that have been out in the desert in a shallow grave? And what does that temperature and those circumstances do to the body? a chart of humidity and temperature to judge backwards and calculate how old or how long it's been there. And that's going to entail entomology, the study of insects that eat carrion and carnage

and break the body down after gaseous decomposition. Anybody outside, any, not anybody like all you buddies, but a body, any body is going to go through regular decomposition, which could take, you know, a couple days in warm weather, a couple weeks if it's cool. But bugs, flies, gnats, and maggots break the body down based on temperature and humidity. And the blowfly sets up eggs that hatch in a couple days and then help decomposition and eat tissue and then they grow through stages uh that take a various number of partial weeks and then those maggots turn into flies themselves and they're able to trace that now later when a body is drier and it's uh undergone decomposition, other insects like beetles come into the scene.

So as long as you're dealing with blowflies and maggots, you're talking about a relative number of days or weeks, no more than three or four weeks. I'm going to go out to special guest Ashley Wilcott joining us. This guy, this person of interest spots, what do you believe was at the heart of her murder? Crime of passion. I think no matter what, hands down, this is a crime of passion. Something about, again, leaving with the suitcases, with the red candles, the fact that she had the trauma that she endured, where she was buried, how far away. I think it was a crime of passion. And then they said, uh-oh, we've got to do something with this body, and this is what we're going to do. Ashley Wilcott, I agree with you because this guy, 33-year-old Chris Spotts, had been Adia's boyfriend, okay?

And he had been engaged to another woman. We know that there was a high-speed police chase. At the end, he kills himself. Why would he do that if he were not somehow involved with this? We wait as justice unfolds. If you have information, tip line 213-486-6890. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.