Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - 2 FEMALE HITCHHIKERS RAPED, MURDERS JUST SOLVED!

Episode Date: April 9, 2021

Two cold case murders are connected by one obscure clue, an orange sock. Barbara “Bobbi” Jo Oberholtzer, 29, and Annette Kay Schnee, 22, disappeared in separate incidents on the same day in 1982. Both were hitchhiking. Their bodies are found 6 months apart. Both were shot. Who killed these women and what is the significance of the orange sock?Joining Nancy Grace Today: James Shelnutt - 27 years Atlanta Metro Area Major Case Detective, Swat officer Lawyer www.ShelnuttLawFirm.com Dr. Alan Blotcky PhD - Clinical Psychologist (Birmingham) specializing in Family, Divorce, and Criminal Cases Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet" featured on "Poisonous Liaisons" on True Crime Network  Shera LaPoint - Genetic Genealogist, Founder, The Gene Hunter www.TheGeneHunter.com, Twitter: @LapointShera  Angenette Levy - Emmy-nominated Reporter & Anchor, Twitter: @Angenette5 Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Two beautiful women, seemingly unrelated, and both go missing. Is it a coincidence or is it a clue? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The first thing you do in any investigation is look and determine who is your victim. That way, you may be able to figure out who is the killer. Take a listen to our friends at CrimeOnline.com.

By all accounts, 29-year-old Bobbi Oberholzson has been happily married for four and a half years, living with her husband in Alma. Jeff Oberholzson runs an appliance repair business. She is a receptionist. The day Bobby Oberholzen goes missing, she leaves for work around 7.15 a.m. Jeff Oberholzen tells Unsolved Mysteries that it was a common occurrence for his wife to hitchhike. Everybody hitchhiked. You got to know the people in the town, and they got to know you,

and they'd look for you to take you over and back if you needed a ride. Around dinner time, Oberholz calls her husband to let him know that she was out with friends and would get a ride home. So according to the husband, she is alive and well at dinner time and was getting a ride home. Let's analyze what we know already with me, an all-star panel to try and apply logic to an illogical situation. 27 years, Metro Major case detective, now lawyer, James Shelnut at ShelnutLawFirm.com. Renowned psychologist and joining us out of the Birmingham jurisdiction, Dr. Alan Blotke, Ph.D. You can find him at Alan Blotke at ATT.net. Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University. Author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.

Star of a new series on the True Crime Network, Poisonous Liaisons. Death investigator, Joseph Scott Morgan. Genetic genealogist, of the gene hunter and you can find her at the gene hunter.com shira lapointe but first to anjanette levy emmy nominated reporter and anchor and you can find anjanette on Twitter at and Jeanette five, the number five. And Jeanette, what do we know about the first woman we're discussing? Twenty nine year old Bobby Oberholzer, apparently happily married. Yeah. And as her husband said, Nancy, which is kind of shocking, but I guess back then it's not so shocking that everybody hitchhiked, which just seemed incredibly dangerous. We've heard of so many cases over the years with women being kind of scooped up and taken advantage of by predators who are picking up hitchhikers.

So obviously she's a happily married woman out going to work and then going out with friends. Ingenet Levy, you're absolutely correct. Everything seemingly normal. And at a time when hitchhiking was the norm, believe it or not, I've actually picked up a hitchhiker. Oh, what was I thinking? Obviously, I survived. This woman, Bobbi Oberholzer, I'm looking right at her. She looks like Farrah Fawcett with her hair not quite as puffy, but really gorgeous lady with the wings.

Working in Breckenridge, Colorado, hitchhiking. Hmm. Interesting. She goes missing, but that evening, the husband says he gets a phone call from her saying that she had been out with her friends and she was getting a ride home. Hmm. Take a listen to Jackie Howard at Crime Online. By 2 a.m., Bobby Oberholz had not returned home. Jeff finds out from her friends that she left the bar around 7.30. He tries to report her missing, but is told by police that it's too early to file a report.

The next morning, 30 miles outside of Breckenridge, a farmer finds Bobby's driver's license. What does that mean? Straight to you, Shelnut. James Shelnut, 27 years Metro Major case, including SWAT, now defense lawyer. What do you mean it's too soon to report somebody missing? I mean, if my twins aren't right there for pickup at 3.30, I'm calling cops, and they darn well better launch an investigation pronto. Yeah, you know, of course, things have progressed and matured law enforcement-wise over decades. But, you know, normally when an adult goes missing, there's at least a 24-hour window that police wait before they file a missing persons report.

And that's probably what they're referring to here. You know, adults are a little bit different than kids. Sure, if a kid is missing, you know, the status now is that, you know, immediately police start a massive investigation, but with an adult, they handle it differently. Hmm. Okay. So your answer is with children, they start an investigation, but with adults, they don't. That really didn't answer my question. I think what it goes to, frankly, to Dr. Alan Blotke, clinical psychologist, joined me out of Birmingham. When a woman goes missing, I've heard it a million times. Oh, she ran off with a boyfriend.

She's laid up in a hotel somewhere. She's this, she's that. They always seem to explain it away. And you know what? It's very rarely explained away rationally. Why is that? Well, and you're absolutely right. And what it shows is that time is of the essence. You're going to sit around for 24 hours. 24 hours is a very long time. Bad things happen. And when people go missing like that, as you said, Nancy, it's rarely an instant explanation. So time is of the essence.

And that leads me, Dr. Blotke, to what we call routine evidence. And I don't mean run-of-the-mill evidence. I mean evidence of routine. She had never not come home before. That had never happened with Bobby Joe Oberholzer. She came home every night on say, hey, I'm catching a rod. I'm going to be home. But she never made it.

Why cops didn't pick up on the fact of how extraordinary that was for her, how out of the norm that was for her, I don't know. But don't you agree, Dr. Alan Block, or do you, that people, like animals, are typically creatures of habit? Of course. We do the same thing over and over. It's not like my twins are not going to come home from school and say, where's mommy? Is mommy, what, mommy's not cooking dinner tonight? Where's mommy? I'm going to bed. Where's mommy? No, that's not happening. No, you're absolutely right. And what that calls for is just a couple of very quick, important questions to get the total context to lead you to some very quick conclusions. To Anjanette Levy, Emmy-nominated reporter and anchor. Anjanette, where again did Bobbie Jo Oberholzer go missing? In Breckenridge, south of Breckenridge, Colorado, actually.

And she had been out with friends, as you mentioned, and said she was going to be home. Trying to figure out what happened to Bobbie Jo Oberholzer. Now, at the same time, we're juggling cases. Let's talk about Annette Schnee, 21 years old. Take a listen to KCAU-TV 9, Lydia Vasquez. Annette Schnee was 21 years old. She was raised in Sioux City but living in Colorado at the time. I met Annette out on Morningside Avenue at the McDonald's.

Scott Smith was Annette Schnee's high school boyfriend. I was instantly drawn to her. She was a beautiful girl. Annette was loyal and just really lovable. I mean, everybody really crime stories with nancy grace anetchny was 21 years old she was raised in sioux city but living in colorado at the time i met annette out on um morningside avenue at the mcdonald's scott Scott Smith was Annette Schnee's high school boyfriend. I was instantly drawn to her. She was a beautiful girl. Annette was loyal and just really lovable.

I mean, everybody really liked her. For those of you just joining us, two beautiful young women, 121, 129, who look very similar physically, go missing. Coincidence or a clue? You just heard the high school sweetheart of 21-year-old Annette Schnee describing her as lovable, loyal, fun. Take a listen again to our friends at KCAU. After high school, both of them left Sioux City. Smith says he roached neat wanting to visit her, but he never heard back. And that's

when he began to worry. Annette's mom called me up and she said, Scott, what did you mean when you said you were worried about Annette? And I said, well, you know, I just, I hadn't heard from her and I was just a little concerned about her. And she said, well, Annette's roommates have called and said that she didn't show up at work last night and she hadn't showed up at their house. She was reported missing for months. So let me understand this back to you and Jeanette Levy, reporter and anchor. So this high school friend is trying to reconnect, high school boyfriend trying to reconnect because he had written her and never heard back. But her mom says she didn't show up for work or back home and then was reported missing. And Jeanette, what do we know about

where she worked, who reported her missing, where she was last seen? What do we know? Well, we know that Annette was working in Breckenridge, very similar to Bobby Joe. They were both working in that city. So these happened very close together. They both look very similar. They're both beautiful, young, blonde women. You know, very interesting. I will never forget Dr. Alan Blotke, clinical psychologist joining us.

I was prosecuting what I believe to be a serial killer and finally got him on one Jane Doe. And because he left DNA that time and had no idea who he was. It was not getting a match in the system. And we didn't know who the victim was. By the end of the case, okay, by the time I took it to trial, I found a defendant who was a chef in Atlanta. I found his girlfriend who had thrown him out. She looked almost identical to the dead victim. And I found a previous rape,

ag assault, attempted murder victim of his. She looked like the other two so as part of my argument closing statements I held up I had it drawn a creation of what the dead victim looked like in life a a recreate. And I compared it to a blown up photo of the lover who kicked him out and the other victim. They all look just alike. And I argued who else would kill her other than the man who was rejected by her. And that jury did not need a shrink, no offense, to figure it out. What does that mean? Like Ted Bundy, when you look at his victims, so many of them are thin, frail-looking, petite, slight, white females with dark hair parted in the middle. They all look so alike to me. I think that's exactly the thread that ties

it together. You know, I'm thinking back. What can I learn from Bobby Joe's case that may help me in Annette Schnee's case? I know that night the husband, Jeff, had made dinner. He knew she was coming home. He was waiting on her to eat supper. How many times have we done that before? He falls asleep, wakes up at midnight, discovers she didn't come home. He waited. Still, she had not returned.

That's when he learned she had left her friends around 7.30 p.m. The next morning, a farmer who lives 30 miles outside Breckenridge finds Bobby Joe's license. Jeff and two friends go to pick it up, and on the way, the husband, Jeff, spots something blue-colored out in a snowy field. What did he find? Take a listen to our friends at CrimeOnline.com. A farmer finds Bobby's driver's license. As Jeff Oberholzen and two friends go to pick it up, he spots Bobby's blue backpack in a snow-covered field. A blood-spattered glove and some bloody tissues are found with it. What do we learn from that? To Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, and author,

we learn that Bobby's blue backpack is in a snow-covered film, a blood-spattered glove and bloody tissues found with it. And what's interesting to me is that the husband finds it, not the police. Of course, that puts suspicion on the husband right off the bat. But he had friends with him. Tell me how snow would impact the crime scene. Well, I got to tell you, Nancy, first off, there are a couple of pieces here. With snow, one of the things that you're going to look for, obviously,

are going to be like if it hasn't snowed recently, you're going to look for things like footprints in the snow because particularly at these elevations, it's going to remain intact. You'll be able to appreciate those around the area where these items are found. So the local law enforcement can go up there and actually do castings of these. Now, I think that it's really interesting here. We're talking about a profile where we have a backpack that is found in one location and along with these tissues and these other things. But what did we learn about her body?

Well, her body's 15 miles away, Nancy. So if we're developing a profile, we know that whoever's doing this is driving a car. It's not like she just wandered out there and suddenly deposited her backpack in the snow, nonetheless, and sub-freezing temperatures, and then wound up in another location because she walked there. We know that whoever is handling this is using some kind of conveyance and driving them around. And again, not only do you have a scene there, but whoever is depositing, whoever deposited her body, you've got a scene within this car because this is literally a mobile crime scene that this individual is driving around in. You're going to find blood there.

You're going to find hair and fiber. You're going to find all these other things that have been left deposited that are the essence of her coming back to the initial location. Wow. And I was thinking of simply there were no footprints in the snow of her coming back. That's what I thought you were going to say, but you said a whole lot more. Of course, it's typical SOP, standard operating procedure, for the husband to be considered the first suspect when you find evidence that a wife has been killed. Right off the bat it was determined that the blood found on Bobbie's gloves and tissues

with her backpack while it belonged they thought it was hers but DNA testing later determined It came from a male, further indicating it could be the husband. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we were talking about the disappearance of two beautiful young women. They look, both of them, so similar to each other. And to get a mental picture, they both remind me of Farrah Fawcett when she was about 25 years old. Bringing in Cheryl LaPointe to analyze blood found at the scene where, obviously, Bobby Joe Oberholzer was kidnapped. So what about blood can tell you whether it's a male or a female? Yes, Nancy, a female will have two X chromosomes and a male will have a Y and an X. So immediately

you're going to notice that difference when you do an analysis that you're dealing with a female's DNA and with a male's DNA. And you can separate that DNA now with the techniques that are available. It makes it very obvious that you have different profiles. So Cheryl LaPointe, genetic genealogist, it comes down to one chromosome and you can tell if it's a man or a woman just like that? Yes, ma'am. Wow. Okay. When you say it, it sounds so simple. To Anjanette Levy, Emmy nominated reporter and anchor, we immediately know that cops were wrong at the beginning when they thought this was all Bobby Joe Oberholzer's blood. It turned out to be a man's blood.

Was it determined to be or not to be the husband's blood? Well, it was determined not to be the husband's blood. It was a male's blood. But back when this happened, they didn't have that technology, the DNA technology. So you would have been going by blood type and things like that back when this happened. When you're taking a look at the scene, James Shelnut, you find her backpack, you find bloody tissue, one of her gloves are bloody. I would immediately think that's where either a kidnap or a rape occurred. I'd be curious how she got there. But it tells me there's definitely a struggle right there.

Or, or, was her backpack and the other items just thrown there? What does the scene tell you? You know, this crime scene was interesting to me when I looked at it because it could have told you a couple of different things. You know, my first thought when I looked at this case was that it was impressive to me that the original detectives and prosecutor restrained themselves from prosecuting the husband. You're right. He would have been the prime suspect in this. And you know what? It's pretty strong that his footprints were the only footprints there. So that's one way that it could have been looked at. But when you look at this, you're right. There is a struggle that has occurred.

Well, wait a minute. As a matter of fact, you're exactly correct, James Shelnut, because police considered Jeff Oberholzer a suspect in both cases. They thought it was more than a coincidence that he had known both victims and that he was the one that discovered his wife's backpack to Anjanette Levy. So the husband knows both the victims? Crazy. I mean, if you think about it, how can you, he must be like the unluckiest guy on the planet. How do you know both your wife and then this cocktail waitress. You just happen to know her.

And he was quoted as saying he had met her and given him his business card. So, of course, the police are going to focus on him. So it's just it's it's unbelievable. And then he does something that you never see a target in a criminal case do. He takes a lie detector test. What in Jeanette Levy as far as the lie detector test goes he passed wow he passed it so he passes a lie detector test to you Dr. Alan Blockke clinical psychologist joining us out of Birmingham you always hear about people who quote beat a lie detector test we were watching one of the oceans

oceans you know i guess there's 11 12 13 now there's eight and a guy in the movie of course beats a lie detector test by every time every time he's asked a question whether it's what's your name or is your name nancy grace he steps down on a tack in his shoe. So every time he answers a question, he's in distress. So when he lies and shows distress, it's no different than all the other times he's answered a question. He's sweating. He's like, oh, you know, while he's taking this poly. But I find it really difficult, you know, to believe it when somebody says, hey, I beat the poly. It's hard to beat a polygraph, doctor. Yes, that's very rare.

And I think that's more dramatic than in reality. The fact that he passed the polygraph, I think, is meaningful. Well, it was very meaningful. They must have thought it was meaningful, too. Because then you have Annette Schnee go missing. The search is on. Take a listen to our friends at Crime Online. Two hours after the backpack is discovered, Bobby Oberholzen's body is found 15 miles away.

The only footprints found by police are Bobby's, and a plastic cord is tied around one of her wrists. And of course, that orange sock. An orange sock? Wait, am I hearing that we're going to go forward with a murder investigation because of an orange sock? Okay, now I know that her body has been found 15 miles away. The only footprints found by police, they think, are Bobby's with a plastic cord tied around one of her wrists. Well, that's a DNA dream right there to have a plastic cord tied around the victim's wrist. When I say a DNA dream come true, what do I mean by that, Joseph Scott Morgan? You've got a plastic cord wrapped around the victim's wrist.

Yeah, in today's context, that's going to leave you have the opportunity to pick up what's referred to as touch DNA. And remember, if you're talking about a plastic cord, this is a surface which you could deposit dead skin cells on. And what's really interesting is that in order to get that cord around her, it has to be tied, doesn't it, Nancy? So it would have to be, logic would dictate, that it was being tied by the perpetrator who left this woman in this condition. So we believe that his DNA would be deposited there. Also, in addition to that, any other points of contact on the body where he would have picked her up, carried her, deposited her, I hate to say, but had done things with the body post-mortem or maybe anti-mortem,

all of these things are going to come into play. Are you talking about raping her? Yeah, among other things. Why are men always so worried about the rape as opposed to the murder? You know, I need to shrink for that, but go ahead. Well, you know, we begin to think about all of these opportunities to harvest the DNA that's going to come off of her body. And keep in mind, as Anjanette had said earlier, the reality is that during this time period, the only thing we had to go on was ABO blood grouping. That's how we identified people back then. And right now, today, we've come light years ahead of that. We've advanced beyond that in order to get people identified.

But back then, all they had was ABO blood groupings. That's why this case is such a testament to the investigators in the past, because, Nancy, this evidence has been preserved for years and years and years and years. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Two beautiful young women go missing. Is it a coincidence or a clue? We know what happened with Bobby Joe Oberholzer. But what about Annette Schnee?

Take a listen to our friend Lydia Vasquez, KCAU-TV. We had to wait six months until we got news that Annette's body had been found. She'd been found lying face down on the edge of a creek. She died from a single gunshot wound. She is somebody I always looked up to. She would do my hair and she'd do my makeup and paint my fingernails. And she acted more like a caregiver. She was with me a lot babysitting me. Cindy French describes her sister as outgoing and goofy. It's almost obscured sometimes when we're searching for forensic clues

and trying to make sense of a scene to think about the person, funny, beautiful, caregiver, outgoing, goofy even. Cindy French describing her sister. Annette Schnee. Anjanette Levy, did I hear this correctly? An orange sock is found near the body of Bobby Joe Oberholzer? Yeah, that's right. And the orange sock, Nancy, did not belong to Bobby Joe. So it was something that was kind of puzzling to investigators where this orange sock just would have come from. Two murders. You know, I don't believe in coincidence when it comes to criminal law. Take a listen to our friend at Crime Online.

Two murders seemingly unrelated. The body of 29-year-old Bobby Oberholzen is found near a scenic overlook five miles south of Breckenridge, Colorado. She had been shot twice. There's very little evidence at the scene. Nearby, along with her house keys, police find an orange sock. Six months later, the body of 21-year-old Annette Schnee is discovered near a creek 13 miles away. She also has been shot. Imagine the officer's surprise when they find Schnee is wearing the mate to the orange sock. So an orange sock found near the first body. The second body found months later wearing the mate to the orange sock. James Shelnut, 27 years in law enforcement, now defense lawyer. Did you hear that? Yeah, that's pretty strong. You know, in a case where, you know, if you rule the husband out,

you know, you think, okay, we've not identified a suspect. We've got two different bodies that are out there, two different murders. are they connected? And, you know, in this particular case where you can't find a connection of a human being between the two, this sock is significant. It is significant because it almost with certainty links these two murders. So if you find the guy who did the first murder, you also got the guy who did the second. And the owner of the sock, I'm not sure. Take a listen to this. So what is the significance of the orange sock? Both Bobby Oberholz and Annette Schnee were last seen hitchhiking. Police believe that the killer picked up Schnee around 5 p.m., drove her 20 miles south of

Breckenridge, and sexually assaulted her in his vehicle. In a hurry to put her clothes back on, Schnee put on one long sock of her own and an orange footie and tried to escape. She was shot in the back and left in the snow. Police say the killer apparently returned to Breckenridge where he picked up Bobby and also tried to rape her. Oberholzen apparently fought back and tried to escape, knocking the match to the orange footy out of the vehicle she was shot twice as she escaped and bled to death in the deep snow thus explaining why there's only one set of prints out in that snow and they belong to the victim she was shot at a range where the perp didn't have to get into the snow. Explain the significance of that, Joe Scott Morgan, and the significance both victims shot dead,

and what we can learn from ballistics. Well, ballistic matching, I think, is key here. They're looking at what's referred to as a.38 caliber or.357 magnum caliber round. They did not recover the firearm itself, but they did recover projectiles, which can be matched. And, of course, we know about ballistic fingerprinting with the lands and grooves that are left behind, the striations that are left behind on the bullet.

And so it is like a fingerprint. If you recover one from one body, another from another body, and they are very similar within a 90 percentile, you're going to have effectively what can be scientifically provable in court that significant. And also, there's nothing essentially left behind with this weapon. You don't have expended cartridges and this sort of thing because this is a revolver that's being used in a case like this. One more point, Nancy, that I think is critical here. One of the reports talks about how Mishni's body, her clothing was actually in disarray.

I heard one reporter say that she quickly dressed. There's also another possibility with serialized killings, and I've seen this with my own eyes with several series I've worked over the course of my career. Serial killers will literally treat dead bodies like dolls. They'll undress them and then redress them and this sort of thing. And sometimes it's left as a marker for this behavior that they've been engaged in. And this is what's really ominous. It really gives me a thought. Are these the only two victims that might be out there?

You know who did that is Ted Bundy. He would bathe the dead bodies, redo their hair and makeup, and redress them. Dr. Alan Blotkin, I really need a shrink right now. Why would you kill a woman, then bathe her, redo her hair and makeup, and redress her? I think it's psychopath with clear sexual deviations and perversions. And this is a very disturbed person who did this and did it more than once. And so this is not just anybody. This is not somebody fashion.

This is a psychopath. And we see the threads that tie together. To Shira LaPointe, genetic genealogist, founder of The Gene Hunter, not Blue Jeans, G-E-N-E, The Gene Hunter, Twitter, at LaPointeShira. Shira, what do you need to crack this case? Nancy, with the advancement in DNA technology these days, we need a profile that can be uploaded to genealogy sites that can find matches and shared ancestors.

Take a listen. Cheryl LaPointe, you're on point, pardon the pun. Take a listen to Kieran Lee at KCNC-TV4. Tori Mason has learned it was DNA, blood on a glove inside one of the victim's backpacks that along with advances in technology that helped crack this case. Barbara Oberholzer and Annette Schnee were seen hitchhiking near Breckenridge in January of 1982. Oberholzer's body was found on Hoosier Pass the next day. Schnee's body discovered in Park County six months later.

Back to you, Cheryl LaPointe. You said we need genetic genealogy. We need a family tree. What is GEDmatch and how is that used, Shara? GEDmatch is a site that enthusiastic genealogists use because we always want to find more cousins and DNA matches and put the puzzles together. So GEDmatch was invented by two men who were amateur genealogists. And if you test at one DNA company and I test at another, instead of having to test at all these different companies,

we can upload our results to GEDmatch and compare the results. Take a listen to Evan Krugel, KDVR-TV, Fox 31. It's been nearly four decades since Bobby Joe Oberholzer and Annette Schnee disappeared while hitchhiking separately outside of Breckenridge. I cannot begin to understand the pain and sufferings their families have had to face for nearly four decades. Today, Park County officials announcing an arrest in the case thanks to DNA found at one of the original crime scenes. In this case, it was on a glove, it was blood. Mitch Morrissey and United Data Connect says that DNA did not match any records in the state's database so they had to take it a step further searching for similar DNA through an online ancestry website. You start

to get people that are potential relatives and what you're looking for is the most common recent ancestor. So to use your point, how far back do you have to go? It's not like this perps DNA just pops up on the registry. You have to go way, way back to like the 1800s sometimes. Yes, Nancy. And, you know, these cases are solved depending on the closest cousin that is found usually. And in this case, it was a third cousin, which means you had to go all to compare all these DNA matches that you have access to to find which of those couples this perpetrator descends from sure the point you're going um DEFCON 4 on me here I'm just a trial lawyer could you break it down a tiny bit more okay Nancy. When you build a family tree and you get to your second great

grandparents, anyone who shares that set of grandparents with you would be your third cousin. Once that was found, they had to compare that cousin to other matches that were on the site, build out family trees, and find the connection. Who is the couple that connects these DNA matches? Oh, wait, you're saying that from the great-grandparents? Yeah. I think you're saying you get half the DNAna but you got to figure out the couple that gives that precise full dna because a bunch of third cousins have similar dnas but not exactly the right dna that's correct um you need to find exactly which of the couples is connecting

these dna matches got it. Got it. Take a listen to our friends at KDVR-TV. Morrissey says his team discovered a close match on Phillips and passed the information along to investigators. They then have to obtain a DNA sample from the individual. Officials say Phillips was still living in the area, so investigators tailed him for weeks until they got a chance to collect his DNA after Morrissey says they saw him stop at a fast food joint. He carried the trash from that food into a post office and he came out without it.

And they rushed right in and got it out of the garbage and they were able to get his saliva off of some of the trash that he deposited. Phillips is being held in a Park County jail. He's facing multiple charges, including kidnapping and first-degree murder. In Denver, Evan Krugel. Got that DNA match of items in the trash. DNA doesn't lie. To Anjanette Levy, Emmy-nominated reporter and anchor, who is this guy and where is he now? He is a mechanic and they say he has been living in Colorado for many, many years. So the sheriff out there said he wasn't surprised by that fact at all.

I think it raises a lot of questions, though. Did this guy just stop doing this? I can't imagine he just stopped. Alan Lee Phillips, now 70. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off. Goodbye, friend. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off Goodbye friend