Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - 2-year-old tot boy & mommy snuggle on the sofa, shot dead

Episode Date: February 8, 2021

Major Turner, 2, dies after being shot in the neck. The tot boy was lying on the couch with his mother in the family's home when multiple shots were fired. Alabama police are asking for the public's help in bringing the culprits to justice.Joining Nancy Grace today: Christopher Stokes - Attorney, Georgia, Stokes Law Firm LLC stokesatlaw.com Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Atlanta, GA www.angelaarnoldmd.com  Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet" featured on "Poisonous Liaisons" on True Crime Network  Alexis Tereszcuk - CrimeOnline.com Investigative Reporter, Writer/Fact Checker, Lead Stories dot Com,  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Last night, I was on the sofa with my two children, John, David, and Lucy, and we were watching the Super Bowl and the commercials and all the fanfare surrounding it. And it was a great evening. Not true for everyone. A little two-year-old boy sitting on his sofa in his home shot dead. And I want to know who did it. Don't really care why.

But I want them to face Lady Justice. Birmingham police now investigating a double shooting of a mother and her two-year-old. The shooter is on the run. This morning, police tell us the mother will be okay. The toddler is currently in serious condition. Investigators say they were hit when bullets shot into their apartment on John Bryan Road in Winona. Birmingham Police asking anybody with information to please come forward. I'm asking you the same thing.

205-254-1764. Repeat. 205-254-1764 or 205-254-7777. You were just hearing our friends at WVTM 13, That was Rick Carl describing the most horrific scenario a parent can face. You're there with your child. Shooting occurs. You hear the gunfire. You realize you're shot and your baby, your two-year-old baby boy is shot. And then you live. The baby dies. With me, an all-star panel to break it down and put it back together again, Dr. Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist joining me out of the Atlanta

jurisdiction. You can find her at AngelaArnoldMD.com. Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, star of a hit series now on the True Crime Network, Poisonous Liaisons, death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan. New guest joining us today, Christopher Stokes, a well-known Georgia attorney at StokesAtLlaw.com. But first, to crimeonline.com investigative reporter, also with leadstories.com, Alexis Tereszczuk. Alexis, you have, as I call, a baby boy. It's not really a baby anymore, but can you even imagine? Remember all you went through when you had the baby? You had the collapsed lung.

You had all kinds of difficulties. You nearly died. I remember sitting there in the hospital in LA, praying to God you would come through. And you did. Can you even imagine after all that? You're sitting on your own sofa, minding your own own business and you hear gunfire ring out that's what this family is going through right now but you give me the facts alexis what exactly happened i'm having a hard time understanding how a baby dies from a gunshot wound sitting on his own sofa

with mommy so little major turner two years old cutest little child you have ever seen he and his mom they had dinner. They sit down on the sofa to kind of calm down, get him ready for dinner. And they're lying there together. And all of a sudden, they called it a hail of fire comes flying into their home. Through a window, 10 bullets were shot. Okay, right there. Hold on. Now, Christopher Stokes is joining me with the stokesatlaw.com firm, Stokes Law Firm.

Christopher Stokes, a good defense attorney, would probably, is probably going to, once I find the guy that did this, and I guarantee you it's a guy, statistically speaking, it's always a guy that does this kind of crime, is going to say, well, this was random. Didn't mean to shoot this little boy, a two-year-old tot. But the reality is Christopher Stokes. A, we don't know if it was random. And B, there's something in the law called a dark and malignant heart. Wild abandon, such as driving through a street fair at 90 miles an hour. You're going to hit somebody, but you don't care.

That is also murder one. Is it not, Christopher Stokes? I think it is, Nancy. I mean, that's depraved indifference. You have an intent to kill somebody if you're shooting off 10 rounds. Well, you know, that's exactly what a prosecutor is going to argue. Implied intent. Under the law, there is explicit intent.

For instance, if I take a gun and say, I'm going to kill you, Jackie, bam. Or if I just start wildly shooting my Uzi in the studio, that is implied intent. Like by implication, what I'm doing is so insane. I know I'm going to kill somebody. Guys, we were talking about this beautiful, and I mean beautiful. I'm looking at a picture of him right now. It's one of the most recent shots of two-year-old Major Turner. He was shot inside a Birmingham apartment. His mother also

wounded there, sitting on the sofa. And somebody had just taken a picture of him wearing a little crown and holding a scepter. It must have been his birthday picture. And he's got on this cute little suit. I could not get my son to wear a suit at all. I mean, that's just recently happened. And this little boy is just beautiful. It's hard for me to take in what has happened. So Alexis, you said 10 rounds, correct? 10 bullets? 10 bullets just through the windows. There were several more. There might have been at least two through the front door. So they're sitting there lying down on the sofa, snuggled up, and the baby is hit with a bullet, as is the mom. Take a listen to this, guys. These are our friends at WVTM 13.

This is Xavier Harris. An innocent life cut short. Police say two-year-old Major Turner and his mother were inside this home on John Bryant Drive Thursday night when shots were fired, hitting them both. The two were taken to the hospital. Spent a lot of hours fighting for his life and he did not make it. Tonight, police are still on high alert, patrolling the community, searching for the gunman, trying to figure out the reason behind this senseless killing. To Joseph Scott Morgan joining me, death investigator, and you can find him online, star of a brand new series, Poisonous Liaisons on True Crime Network. Joe Scott,

have you taken a look at the apartment? Because I'm looking at it right now. You see there's a grassy, a lot of grassy area, well-kept sidewalks, streetlights, which is very, very important. Have you looked at this, Jackie? A lot of high-powered streetlights. And it's also significant, the picture I'm looking at is of that night because I see the yellow crime scene tape. Not a lot of cars, any structure in your backyard. That's a place where people can hide. But more significant to me is these are two story home apartments.

They look kind of like townhouses. They're not very dense. I'd say there may be 80, maybe 100 apartments there. But significant, from what I can see, Joe Scott, the bedrooms and a bathroom are on the top level. The downstairs level would be the den, kitchen, maybe a bathroom down there. That would be where the sofa would be. Remember Alexis just said they had had dinner and they were on the sofa and that's where they would be. I'm looking at the windows, Joe Scott, and they on the bottom level are easily accessible from the road. You can

walk right up to them if you want to. Yeah, you can. And it's all fully exposed, as you stated, Nancy. Let me tell you why I don't, simply based on physical evidence, why I do not believe that this is a random shooting. And if you look at the two windows there, they're side by side, and roughly their dimensions look like they're about four feet in height probably about five feet in width and they're about wouldn't you say about four feet off the ground the lower seal yeah three three and a half to four feet it's easy it's easy enough to stand there at waist level and peer in through those windows you can see everything and particularly if it's illuminated remember they're watching tv so there's going to be a light if If all the other lights are off, you can still see what's going on inside of the house. That's why you need to keep your curtains pulled. But the fact that these defects, these holes in these screens are so concentrated in that specific area,

I've worked a lot of drive-by shootings in my career, Nancy, and used to call it prey and spray. And you would have a line of bullets that would go down an apartment complex. This ain't what happened here. You have a concentrated area in this small defined space. And you've also got rounds, according to Alexis, that pass through the door. That means that whoever fired these rounds was after somebody inside of that apartment, in my opinion. You know, I'm looking at the apartments and from what I can tell, each door is attached to one parcel of windows, a double column of windows. My point is the door, you've got the door and right beside it are the

windows. So hitting that door and hitting the windows in one single spray is entirely possible. Also, you go down about six more feet and there's another double window and another door, maybe 10 feet. So it's again, try to get this in your mind. It's kind of a townhome, two-story apartment from what I can tell. And the door and the window both took fire. At first, Joe Scott Morgan, I was thinking, could it have been a ricochet? But the statistic, the statistical probability of the mother and the son both getting shot by ricochet is very, very improbable. It's very low that both of these were shot by ricochet. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about a brutal killing that took the life of a two-year-old little boy.

His name is Major Turner. He's just beautiful, a beautiful little boy, big, perfect smile. You can tell he's very well cared for. His hair is perfectly done. And in the many photos I've seen, he's always perfectly dressed. Now, that does not mean he has not been subjected to any hard times. But I've seen no indication this child was anything but loved. But now that child is dead.

Mommy also shot. Take a listen to our friend Rick Carl at WVTM 13. Birmingham police investigating a deadly double shooting, one that claimed the life of a toddler. The Jefferson County Coroner's Office now identifying the two-year-old as Major Turner. Investigators say the little boy and his mother were shot last night inside their apartment over on John Bryant Road. Police aren't sure if they were the intended victims. While also shot, the mother is expected to recover.

So far, no arrests made in the case. Birmingham police, by the way, asking anybody with information to please come forward. So what we're looking at is a murder charge, most likely a voluntary manslaughter charge, maybe an involuntary, but if I were trying this, I would not include involuntary. You can get straight probation for that. Forget it. And an attempted murder on the mother and or an aggravated assault, putting someone in fear of immediate bodily injury. With me, an all-star panel, I want to go to Dr. Angela Arnold, psychiatrist, joining us out of Atlanta at AngelaArnoldMD.com. To me, it doesn't matter if they meant to shoot into this particular window or they were joyriding and shot the gun up in the air or so they thought. It doesn't matter to me because under the law, you can intend to kill a certain person or you can do an act as Christopher Stokes, attorney at law, joining us at Stokes Law, stated something so depraved that it equals murder one under the law. So why should we care? And who in the world would shoot a gun in a packed apartment complex like this?

Oh, my goodness. And also, Nancy, it still has the same outcome for the mother who has lost this child. The loss of a child is the ultimate tragedy that someone can suffer. Tell me that. Tell me that. There's so much. There's an injustice in it. The mother is going to grieve forever because, Nancy,

she is not going to get to do what she has given her life to do, and that is to raise this child. So there will be an emptiness inside of her forever because of the loss of her sweet little baby. You know, back to you, Alexis Teresich, joining me, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. She also is with LeadStories.com. Alexis, you and I knew each other before we had children. Remember? Way back when. And I'm sure that both of us thought we knew everything there was to know about love. And then we had children. And then there's really no question that, sorry, David, if you're listening, that the twins are the loves of my life.

There's just really no question about it. So when you think about, I mean, Alexis, everything changes. There's no doubt in my mind I would rather die than my children be harmed. And this mother now has to live with, I guess I need to shrink on this, all the survivor guilt that we were both shot. My baby died and I lived. Why? Was it my fault? Well, she's going to deal with that the rest of her life. What I'm trying to figure out was neighbors are saying eight to 10 shots were fired, but how many actually went into that apartment, Alexis? I don't know how many actually

went into the apartment, but what you can see from the picture of the window is that there are if you kind of count them up it looks like about ten bullet holes and you know if you if you're not used to seeing crime scenes or anything you if it's such a jarring photo to me even if somebody who has seen lots of crime scenes these holes are actual bullet holes. And you know that they hit a little boy who was in his mother's arms. And that's even more than anything else. You are holding your child when he is shot and killed, holding them on your sofa, the safest place you can ever think of inside your home, on your sofa, probably watching Paw Patrol, which is what my child still watches. You know what I was just thinking about when you said that, when you said it was so jarring to see that photo, Alexis, to you, Dr. Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist joining me out

of the Atlanta jurisdiction today. When she says it's jarring, I find the dichotomy of the mother with the baby on the sofa. And you know, Dr. Angie, you and I have talked about this. I cook at least five nights a week and we have dinner and, um, don't give me too much credit. A lot of us crock pot. And I understand some people look down on that. Anyway, then what we do, homework is done, everything is done, and we sit down and I stream something that would be good for them to watch. And that's our nightly routine. And then they go to bed.

The juxtaposition of that domestic scene and all that love just shattered by gunshots that actually hit the baby. So that being said, Nancy, this poor woman is going to have to somehow survive the loss of her child. How do you do that? She's going to have to have some sort of dedication to life because she is she is never and it sounds like she was a really good mom fixing dinner having the child laying down with her and then all of a sudden all of this it's such an injustice she's going to forever have feelings of injustice over this that some they were in the safety of their home and killed I don't think there could be anything worse, Nancy.

And I'm not sure, Alexis Terushuk, if the baby died on the scene or if he was transported to the hospital when he died. But let's be real. Justice Scott Morgan, death investigator, how much can you really do in an ambulance? I mean, I know EMTs save lives every day. But with a shot, I understand the shot was to the neck. How much can they really do to save the baby? Other than hang an IV and get them to the hospital as quickly as possible. Not much other than applying direct pressure to the wound. Because, you know, in the field, God bless them, paramedics, they've actually saved my life on two occasions.

There's nothing really invasive they can do. What I mean by that, any kind of minor surgery, much less something major that involves all of these vessel roots that are located in our neck. And so they have to, and it was, they went to Alabama Children's Healthcare Center. And from their address, Nancy, where Major was shot, it's about a 20-minute drive. Now, of course, that's on a normal day. You've got an ambulance running, lights and sirens. But time is of the essence. So you want to try to get them to the hospital as quickly as possible so you can get a trauma team in there and to stem the bleeding first.

And then from there, you go on and try to stabilize. And then, of course, if you can get to it, you try to take that round out of the wound. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we were talking about the death of just a beautiful baby boy, just two years old, on the sofa with mommy. When shots ring out, unexpected, neighbors say they hear eight to ten rounds fired, both mommy and child. Shot. Mommy lives. Baby dies. Right now, manhunt for whomever did this deed. Take a listen now to our friends at ABC. This is Byron Khalil. Two-year-old Major Turner died early Friday morning. Major and his mother were shot Thursday evening by someone who was outside their apartment building on John Bryant Road in Winona.

One neighbor who asked that we not show her face told us what she heard. A little after 10, I heard about four or five rounds of shots, and then I turned my TV off and I rolled over. Some believe the neighborhood needs more of a police presence. We need more protection around here, more police protection. Is this the right end day? Mayor Woodfin says he is prepared to do what it takes to solve this crime.

First of all, do we know Alexis Tereschuk? Was the shooter on foot or in a car? That we don't know yet. It seems that they were in a car because there was no one around. Nobody ran outside and grabbed them. But the police have not, I don't think they know yet. You know, I've looked at the apartment complex very carefully, Joe Scott, and I can't tell if I see cameras or not.

I can see a lot of streetlights. If there were cameras, they may have gotten an image, but I can't see whether there are cameras or not. Yeah, and in these more large or larger apartment complexes like this, you don't know how old it is, this sort of thing. So you don't know if the technology is going to be up to snuff. I think that what Birmingham PD is going to need to do and probably what they've already done is up and down the avenue that leads into this area. You might have any number of convenience stores or storage facilities or places like that that do have cameras. If a person was on foot, if they were in a vehicle,

maybe you can capture a tag off of a license plate, or maybe you can have some facial features that are recognizable. But I can tell you this, Nancy. The individual that did this is very, very familiar with this location. It wouldn't surprise me if they could evade any kind of observation. So they were motivated, and this shows in this end result. The Birmingham Police Chief, Patrick Smith, says that they believe there is video evidence in the case, which is why they're asking the community for help. Now, right there, Alexis Tereschuk, that's a double-edged sword.

I'm hearing two interpretations. One, we have video evidence, and two, we need your help in amassing video evidence. So do they have it, or do they believe it's out there and they've got to get it? It sounds like the latter to me. That's exactly what it sounds like. It sounds like they're hoping that maybe a neighbor that lives three houses down has a ring camera on their doorbell and that they saw it or that somebody else has a camera that was facing this way. But it doesn't sound like they're not saying, well, we have the security footage from across the street and it looks like this is a description of a car or this is a description of a person. They are asking for help but i do want to point out you know the mayor has called these guys the people that have done this punks he has really been pretty adamant about i really appreciate that

the mayor called them punks which they probably are but i call them murderers. And I'd like to see fewer words and more action in finding this person. You know, the guy statistically, it's a guy is familiar with the area, just as Joe Scott Morgan said, but I guarantee you he was not alone. If this guy was in a car, you know, was in that car with him. Straight back out to Christopher Stokes, attorney joining me from the Stokes Law Firm at stokesatlaw.com. We've been saying, did they know the victims? Or was this a drive-by shooting? Was it random? But the reality is motive is never required under the law. Do you agree or disagree? Or would you, Christopher Stokes, use lack of motive as a way to reduce the crime to voluntary manslaughter?

No, no, Nancy. I think that, as I said, when you're shooting that many times into an apartment, regardless of the motive, regardless of your reason, you were there to harm someone. Whether you intended to hit that apartment or you hit it by mistake because you thought you were shooting at someone else's apartment. And in the end, I think what this is going to boil down to in terms of solving it is someone coming forward. Someone knows who these people are. Absolutely. And Christopher Stokes, if some guy had an ax to grind with the mom, for instance, that would be out there. Family and friends, the mom herself would be talking about that. And we haven't heard that at all. So it seems to me like it is going to be someone who may be shooting at random. And you're saying that motive is irrelevant. I think so. I mean, we have here someone who has you something. I was once prosecuting a case. There were two defendants and it was a murder case. And one of the defendants lawyer actually tried to

argue transferred intent. I don't think they realize that's not a legal theory under the law. It was basically, oh, you know what? I meant to shoot you, Christopher Stokes, but I accidentally shot Jackie. My intent was to murder you. That is so bass-ackwards, because if you intend to murder anybody and you fire a weapon, it's still murder, even if you got the wrong person. That's correct. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are analyzing the clues left behind in the shooting of a young mother and her two-year-old baby boy, Major Turner. As of right now, no arrests have been made.

Take a listen to this. Birmingham police are working to find whoever is responsible for shooting into his family's home Thursday night, killing Major and injuring his mom. Howard says they had just finished dinner and her close friend was getting her boys in bed for the night. And this thing, you know, that's when she had her gunshots and she tried to take cover and protect her kids the best she could. When Howard flipped through pictures Friday, her heart broke a little bit more, but she hopes when you see Major's sweet smile, it'll push you to help police solve this case. I don't know who. That's why I'm hoping that this interview will help that person come and tell on themselves. They should feel bad for taking a sweet baby life away.

And Howard says his mom has been released from the hospital after she was injured in that shooting. In the last update from Birmingham police, they say no suspects are in custody. No suspects in custody, according to Randy Hildreth at WBRC. That's Fox 6. Now I want you to take a listen to the Birmingham mayor, Randall Woodfin. This is not the time to be silent. And for anybody that has information or is harboring this person or people who were shot into this house, shame on you. The person or the people that did this are cowards. They're punks.

This is not a way to solve issues. And when an innocent child is killed, do the right thing. And so I'm asking the entire community. I'm asking the press and everyone else. Stop what you're doing today. Give this all of your attention and any information you have to bring any form of justice to this family, to Major. I ask that you do it. Thank you.

You know, I'm just thinking about my own children right now and trying to keep myself from imagining this happening to them. Straight back out to you, death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan joining us from Jacksonville State University. Joe Scott, what are police doing right now? Because I find it very difficult that nobody has been brought in for questioning. Yeah, they're shaking the bushes right now, Nancy. They better shake a little harder. Yeah, no kidding. I got to tell you, Nancy, I still go back to this idea that this is a targeted event. And I was giving this a bit more thought after we were talking. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Targeted? We've all been talking about random,

and now you're thinking targeted? I don't think it's random, and this is why I don't think it's random. Nancy, somebody walked up to that window. Now, I don't know if they were right on top of it, but think about the position that Mama and Major were in. They were on a sofa. How tall is a sofa at most? It's probably, I don't know, maybe two and a half feet off the ground if you're laying on the sofa. These bullets are going to have downward trajectories. This is not somebody riding by in a car. And these rounds did not pass through a brick wall, Nancy. They passed through a window. So that gives me an indication that whoever fired these rounds, when they pulled the trajectories, when they show those, you know how on television people will see the lasers that we use in order to pull trajectories? When they pull these trajectories, I can almost

guarantee you, dollars to donuts, this thing is going to be from above to below in a downward trajectory, striking both mama and precious little major in the neck, okay, from that height. This is not somebody just randomly driving by, and let me tell you one more thing. You got 10 rounds that have been spent out there. This is not a revolver. This is going to be a semi-automatic handgun, in my estimation. There will be spent brass, spent casings that are laying around. You remember the grassy area we were talking about? I don't think that they would have been dismounted and outside of a vehicle when they were firing. So you're going to have ejected casings that are just laying out there in the grass.

Because these people didn't hang around long enough to go back. Do you know the casings were found or are you speculating? I'm speculating that they would have been because who's going to stand around and take the, even if you don't find every one of them, by God, you're going to find a couple of them. Obstructions on those casings can be specifically tied back, tied back to the weapon that was used, not to mention the recoverance, the ballistics on that'll come back. And that could be enough physical evidence in and of itself to warn a conviction in this case. I had been hoping, not that it would really make any difference, that this was a drive-by

shooting at random, but that theory does not necessarily coincide with the trajectory paths of the bullets, just as you portrayed. This was a downstairs window. They were on the sofa, so I'm not quite sure of the positioning of the sofa in the room, but it would be very difficult to shoot from outside, especially if the sofa was against the wall of the window. That leads me to another question. I remember prosecuting a case where two infants were in their lids. They were lying there and in a revenge act, not on the infants, but on the father. The perp threw a Molotov cocktail into the window and said, I'm going to fry some babies. Killed both the babies.

It was immediate. They burned to death, lying in their little bassies, their bassinets. They actually intended to kill two infants in a revenge act. That happened. I worked the case. So as bizarre as that sounds, why would you do something like that to Dr. Angela Arnold? We've seen over and over where, for instance, an estranged husband or boyfriend would kill the baby to get back at the mother. Although we have not heard that as a motive in this case, it's not that far-fetched that the child was shot at in revenge on the mother or father.

I've seen it happen. It's hard for me to take in, but it happens, Dr. Angela. Sure. And I don't think it's that far-fetched either, but I also think that you would have to assume that whoever did this knew that they were going to be laying on the couch at that time. How did they know that? And that the baby was, it just sounds like, it sounds like this was more of a random act that they came in and just shot up the place and they didn't care who they were going to kill. Guys, take a listen to our friends at CBS 42. No suspects have been named at this time, Sherry, but we did speak with Police Chief Patrick Smith late this afternoon, who tells us there could be video evidence in this case, as he and city leaders demand to know who is

responsible. Let's give justice to this young baby who's done nothing to no one. Police Chief Patrick Smith addressing the issues of gun violence in the city. I mean, let's look at it. Last year, we took over 2,500 guns off the street and we're still having shootings. And because of gun violence Thursday night, a mother suffered life-threatening injuries and two-year-old Major Turner, now dead. I can tell you through their tears, through their pain of listening to them, this family is grieving. You know, it's so easy for us to think, oh, that could never happen to me. That could never happen in my neighborhood. Well, let me tell you something. Dr. Angela Arnold lives in one of the swankiest neighborhoods,

I'm sure, in Atlanta. And it was near her neighborhood where a little girl just got shot unintentionally in a drive-by shooting near the most expensive designer label mall in the entire region, Phipps Mall. So it does happen in every neighborhood. Let me give you the tip line again. Please, please pay attention. Look at the picture a little Major and act if you can. 205-254-7777. Repeat. 205-254-7777. Our prayers with Little Major and his family. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast. Goodbye, friends.