Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - 23andMe: Unlock Your Own DNA Mystery!

Episode Date: December 1, 2022

Nancy Grace teams up with 23andMe to dive into the DNA reports and  health profiles of Nancy’s family who have all taken the 23andMe tests. Alongside an all-star panel, Nancy breaks down the reports to better understand the role our genetics play in our overall health.   Joining Nancy Grace today: Caryn Stark - NYC Psychologist, CarynStark.com, Twitter: @carynpsych, Facebook: "Caryn Stark" Dr. Michelle DuPre - Former Forensic Pathologist, Medical Examiner and Detective: Lexington County Sheriff's Department, Author: "Homicide Investigation Field Guide" & "Investigating Child Abuse Field Guide", Forensic Consultant, DMichelleDupreMD.com Stacey Detweiler MS, LCGC - Medical Affairs Manager, Medical Device and Clinical Genetics, 23andMe, Inc. Alisa Lehman, PhD - Senior Manager, Product Science, 23andMe, Inc.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. 23 and Me. You'd have to be living under a rock in a cave in a far away distant land, not to know what 23andMe is. It's ancestry testing. You find out where you're from, who you are, so to speak, chromosomally, genetically, that is. Can that discovery unlock secrets, the secrets of your genetic makeup that can help you lead a healthier and I believe happier life? We hear stories about genetic tracing that you find distant relatives. You find out your family tree goes all the way back to Anglo-Saxon times.

But how can it help me in the here and now? I'm raising two twins. They just turned 15. Let me wash my mouth out with soap. I can't believe they're 15. Can I learn anything from this genetic, let me say genetic makeup, genetic identity, genetic composite that will help my twins and me and my husband, David, and my mother, Elizabeth, live a longer, healthier life. I'm Nancy Grace, and we are talking about 23andMe. With me, an all-star panel. To make sense of all of this, if you're a layperson like me, hey, I'm just a JD. But I know nothing about genetic counseling. What does it mean? Joining me, an incredible host of guests.

But I want to go first to Stacey Detweiler. She is a licensed certified genetic counselor with 23andMe. Stacey, thank you so much for being with us. Thank you. Pleasure to be here. What is, in a nutshell, remember this is 23andMe for dummies. What is 23andMe? Hey guys, by the way, I took the test. Go ahead. Tell me, Stacey. It's a lot, right? So I think you kind of mentioned what people first think about is ancestry. But what I really get excited about is the health. And there is a lot of information that you can find out from a little bit of spit, which we're able to get DNA from. So there's information about your own. Wait, did you say a little bit of spit?

Because we had to spit and spit and spit. I mean, I'm used to criminal cases, Stacey, where you get a genetic marker and identity and like this minuscule amount of blood, saliva. Why did we have to spit so much? Yeah, that's why we call it a spit party. I didn't think about it like that. I can let Elisa take this one a little bit, just because you need to get enough DNA from that spit in order to be able to give you all these insights. There's over 65 health insights. Okay, I'll go to Elisa. With me is Elisa Lehman, Senior Manager in Product Science at 23andMe. And you can find everybody at medical.23andme.com. And that's and spelled out 23andme.com. Elisa, welcome to you and Stacey. Why so much spit? You know, you're a PhD and a senior manager. I feel kind of wrong asking you, why did I have to spit so much? But why did I have to spit so much? Oh, thank you for having me. And why do you have to spit so much is

the best question, I think, to ask. I love answering questions like this. Like Stacey said, what we're trying to do is get your DNA the easiest way possible. We don't want people to have to go give us a blood sample. So spit, very easy to get. But what we're doing is we're trying to get the DNA that's in almost every cell in your body, including the cells inside your cheeks. So when you spit and spit and spit, what's coming along for the ride is some of those cheek cells from your mouth. And what we're trying to do is make sure that we're going to get enough of those cells so we get enough DNA to make sure that when we run and analyze that DNA, when we extract it from the cells, when we try and figure out your A's and C's and T's and G's from your DNA, that we have enough so that you don't have to do it again. What are A's and C's and G's and T's? So your DNA, you can think of as a code that is there to explain how to.

OK, you know what, Elisa Lehman, just stop right there. My son, who is a star in robotics and science, and he keeps talking about coding and I keep acting like I know what he's talking about. What are you talking about? So when I'm talking about the genetic code, it is more like, you know, codes during World War II where you are trying, there's information, but it is written in a way that, you know, you need to be able to decode it to understand it. So your DNA is like that.

Okay, now I understand. Now I understand. Now I understand. With me, two new friends, Stacey Detweiler and Elisa Lehman from 23andMe, and two longtime friends, Karen Stark joining us. We're now psychologists joining us out of Manhattan. You can find her at KarenStark.com. That's Karen with a C. And Dr. Michelle Dupree, my longtime colleague joining us out of South Carolina, forensic pathologist, medical examiner, author of multiple books. Dr. Dupree. Now, what about this? A regular old Ph.D. just told me something you've never told me.

I've never heard the phrase cheek cells. Have you heard the phrase cheek cells, Jackie? Yeah. You've never mentioned that, Dupree. No, I always say epithelial cells. And you crash down on me for using such a technical term. Yeah, I do. So the cells inside of your cheek are epithelial cells, which I always equate with cells that come from your skin. Well, they come from the outside of any organ. Okay, I'm learning a lot. You know, Karen Stark, joining me, a New York psychologist,

why are so many people afraid to get a DNA test? I think they're afraid, Nancy, to find out things that they don't know, and the unknown can often be scary, and especially if you get health information, and they wonder, well, what do I do about this information once they get it? Oh, Karen, you're so smart. You know what? You just hit the nail on the head because when we decided to do 23andMe,

I was reading about it. This is why we did it. My daughter wants to know her ancestry. I said, you're Irish. Now go to bed. I didn't know what else to say. That's all I knew. But I knew that there was more in the mix because my mother is deeply olive skinned with black hair and amazing blue eyes. And I come out, really, really white and hazel eyes and blonde hair.

And my dad was ruddy complected. And I'm wondering, how does all this mix together when we're basically mutts? But that aside, Karen Stark, what you said, when I started thinking about taking, doing 23andMe and the spit party, I think either Stacey or Elisa said spit party. I did it too. I said, sure, I want to know all my health information. I want to know everything.

But when I got the report, I had to tell you, I did have a tiny hesitation when I clicked on health. It's really easy to read everybody. You get it in your email or wherever you want it sent and don't ruin it you four or you Jackie, because, oh guys, Jackie is our executive producer on Crime Stories. So Lucy has always wanted her ancestry, and I'm going to print it all out and make it like a college diploma-looking thing and wrap it in a ribbon, and that's going to be one of her Christmas gifts. Okay. Not from Santa, but from me.

And so don't tell her anything we're talking about, especially you, Karen Stark. Got it. So I was a little bit afraid when I, just a tiny bit, I had a pause. So let me go back to you, Stacey Detweiler, joining us, medical affairs manager. What type of health information can I learn from 23andMe? Yeah, so the Healthless Ancestry Service, there's a lot of different health reports in there. And the big ones that we think about

are the ones that can provide you information about your own likelihood or chances for developing type 2 diabetes. So this is using your own genetic information. There's also the more general wellness ones. So a big one that I think about is likelihood for being lactose intolerant. But there's also reports that can provide information about, you know, do you have a

theory, a genetic theory that you might pass on to your future children that could impact their health too. So being a genetic health, I always think about the family aspect. There's a little bit for you. There's a little bit potentially for family members as well. there's a lot of different information that you can get from this there's even the 23 and me plus membership that even opens that up more to additional insights so there's a lot of different health information that you can learn about it's not diagnostic but it can ultimately lead you into the path of talking to your health care provider, getting a potential life-changing diagnosis.

Or a lot of the healthy lifestyle is speed prevention. That can really promote these actions that you can take every day to help you live a longer, happier, healthy life. Well, I've got to tell you, I learned a lot. I learned that I have a higher risk of getting celiac disease. Now, can somebody tell me what that is exactly? What is that, Dr. D risk of getting celiac disease. Now, can somebody tell me what that is exactly? What is that, Dr. Dupree, celiac disease? Let me ask you, that's basically a sensitivity to gluten, which is found in flour and wheat and things like that.

Oh, wait, you're not telling me to cut out carbs, are you? Because I don't want to hear that. I'm not telling you. You are, aren't you? Well, I'm saying it might be a good idea. It says slightly higher risk. It is. Not high It says slightly higher risk. It is.

Not high risk, slightly higher. Exactly. This is a propensity. It doesn't mean that it's going to happen. You have a propensity for that. Also, increased likelihood of type 2 diabetes. Explain what that means, Dr. Dupree. Type 2 diabetes means that you usually acquire diabetes later in life.

It can be controlled by medication. It can also be controlled by nothing more than diet and exercise if it hasn't progressed too far. It may require medicines such as pills, and it may actually turn into insulin-dependent. It's usually found in older adults. But again... And you're saying that can be prevented? It can be with diet and exercise. It can be... You can actually change your diagnosis, basically, of diabetes sometimes if it hasn't progressed too far. And if you're on a very healthy diet and exercise.

You know what else is interesting? Elisa Lehman joining me, Senior Manager, Product Science at 23andMe. Everything was dead on. My results were higher odds of hazel eyes, which I have, likely to be afraid of heights. I am not afraid of heights. My father, however, hated heights. Hated heights.

And I will tell you after hiking a lot, Elisa, all over, that when I get to the top of a, let's just say mountain, I finally get to the top of it, I'm not afraid from the waist up. But from the waist down, my legs seem to tremble i can always feel it like when we went to the top of a summit at grand canyon i looked down i was talking about how beautiful it was and tried to take pictures but my legs were shaking what does that mean i guess that would be the fear of heights maybe a little part of you still still carries that i think what's you know really interesting about you know all the information that you can get with 23andMe is you see like how many things in your life genetics may have a little role in, right? It may nudge you

towards one thing or another. But as you said, it's not destiny, right? It's a propensity maybe, but you may not be afraid of heights. Maybe, you know, that beautiful view overcomes that fear for you. And, you know, like you said, legs up, you are just enjoying that beautiful view. And a propensity for fear of heights doesn't matter at that point. How in the world, though, do your chromosomes – oh, Jackie's holding up a sign, not afraid of heights, but am afraid of falling. Okay. Thank you, Jackie. How do genetic markers determine if you're afraid of heights? Because my father was deathly afraid of heights.

I've never heard that before. Anybody jump in that knows the answer to that one? Well, I can tell you at 23andMe what we do is we look at people who tell us they're afraid of heights and compare their DNA to people who say they're not afraid of heights. And what we're looking for is differences, like different places in their DNA that's different between those two groups. And so we can say that people who are afraid of heights tend to have this certain genetic marker that people who aren't afraid of heights don't have. And then we can tell you that, that you may have this marker that seems to be associated with being afraid of heights.

You know, a really interesting thing I found out. My mom has macular degeneration and my mother-in-law, who believe it or not, Jackie, ever since David and I met back in college, over all those years, I never had a single crossword with his mother or father. Yeah, I'm really, really blessed. Just so blessed to have had them in my life. His mother had macular degeneration really badly. Now, here's what's interesting. I don't show a higher likelihood of getting macular degeneration, but my husband does. I haven't told him yet. He's kind of like shut down after he found out he wasn't Scottish. Okay, so that's a whole other thing. He is so convinced he's Scottish, we even bought him a kilt and made him wear it one time. He's not. He's not Scottish. I think

that he's questioning the whole process because he wants to be Scottish so badly. He loves bagpipes. He loves everything about it. But he found out that he's a mutt like me. And he's got a little bit of French and German in him. And he was just, he was upset when he found out our so-called thoroughbred dachshund was part poodle. Okay, he was very disturbed about that. So I haven't been able to talk to him about being part French and part German yet. I'm going to save it for just the right moment. But you know, another thing I found out is that I knew that I was part Jewish, but I didn't know it was Ashkenazi. Now, that is very significant,

because there are certain health risks associated with being Ashkenazi does anybody know the answer to that what are those health risks yeah I can jump in here there's certain populations where their genetic variants that occur more common Ashkenazi Jewish is one of those that we see certain genetic conditions much more common in that population and so one of the ones that we think about is brca or um inheriting breast cancer kind of hereditary breast cancer and ovarian cancer this breast and hold on writing that down hereditary breast cancer and hereditary ovarian cancer is that the brachygine yes the brca1 and brca2. And so individuals of Oshkosh.

Oh, yeah. Just so you know, ladies, Karen Starks, a breast cancer survivor. Go ahead. And is Jewish. Are you Oshkosh, Karen? Yes, I am. Nancy, we're Oshkosh. So, you know, we're related.

Not only do we live down the street from each other in New York, now we find out we're related. Okay, breast cancer, hereditary breast cancer, hereditary ovarian cancer, the BRCA gene, and I believe Tay-Sachs syndrome. Isn't that? Yeah, there's a lot of conditions that are autosomal recessive, which is a fancy way of saying that kind of you inherit a genetic variant from your culture parents, and that can result in a condition. And we see more of the like-mindedness you bring up in certain populations

of Ashinoki Jewish. And so for the BRCA, talking about that, about 1 in 40 individuals of Ashinoki Jewish ancestry are carriers or have a genetic variant that greatly increases their risk for these certain cancers, like breast ovarian or prostate cancer and pancreatic cancer. You know, I found out so much about my mom too, guys. I found out that she is partially Nigerian. I found out so much about mom.

What is that? You, Karen, start jumping in. Go ahead. Yeah, I wanted to say, like, if you get those kind of results and they say a propensity to a disc or something about the BRCA gene, it's really important not to be afraid but to go and talk to somebody and go over it with your doctor or a genetic counselor like you have on the show. Hey, you know what it did to me when I found out about the higher likelihood of getting type 2 diabetes well first I immediately ordered

Krispy Kremes and I ate my way through them then I swore them off and I'm trying I just had to have one last bender before I went on straight and narrow I want to have those Krispy Kremes but anyway back to 23 andMe. Can we talk about security? Because I found out all sorts of things in my line of work. When you talk about DNA tests, it's never a good thing. Okay. You know, it's related to some crime. But with 23andMe, you can now explain this correctly.

Stacey Detweiler and Elisa Lehman, you can actually have all of your results destroyed after you get them. If you don't want them kept on file, they're destroyed. They're gone. Like turning off the TV, it's over. It's gone. You can have it not shared with the public or shared with the public if you want. You can have limited parts of it shared with the public or none of it shared with the public. Is all of that right, Alisa and or Stacey? Yeah, that's right. And I encourage everyone to check out 23andme.com slash privacy, because I think you're right that a lot of people think about the privacy and the security concerns about getting this information. And we want people to make an informed choice before they decide to do the test or not. And so we have a lot of information about what we do to protect your information. So yes, you can have your sample

destroyed, your DNA sample that you provide. You can completely delete all your information after you get it. You can download all your information. You can choose which reports that you want to view or not view within the health report. You can choose if you want to share information with other people on the 23andMe site or with research or not. And you can choose what information is shared. So you have a lot of control over who sees your information.

And we want to make sure that people are informed of those choices ahead of time. And our general policy is that all of these things are opting in to sharing. So if you don't do anything, we assume you do not want to have your information shared. Oh, that's so smart. Guys, what she just said, I just immediately compared it to if you're in court and you don't enter a plea, the judge just automatically enters a not guilty for you. If you don't check any of these boxes, then they automatically put it on privacy where you don't share it with anyone in any degree. And again, you can have the whole thing deleted and your tests destroyed if that's what you want. Hey, you know what? Another thing I found out, this is so crazy, that I am, wait for it, Jackie, wait for it, more likely to experience hair photo bleaching, which means that when you go out in the sun, your hair turns blonder.

See, I told you this was natural and you didn't believe me. You kept saying, who did your hair or who did not do your hair? Hint, hint, hint. Go do your hair. See, it's all because of the sun. This is natural, right? How do they know that? Can Elise or Stacy tell know that? Can Elise or Stacey tell me that? That is very similar to, you know, the fear of heights, you know, fear of public speaking,

like preferences, like, you know, whether you prefer chocolate or vanilla ice cream. All of that is, you know, comparing the DNA of people who say their hair gets lighter in the sun to people whose hair doesn't get lighter in the sun and finding these little places that are different between people who have those different experiences. And then, again, being able to report back to you based on your DNA, you might be more likely to have that hair photo bleaching happen. Listen to this, guys. This is what you can learn.

Are you prone to type 2 diabetes? If so, what can you do about it? Macular degeneration. What can what can you do about it? Macular degeneration. What can David and Lucy do about it? I found out that I was more acutely, I have a more acute odor detection, which is really interesting, Jackie. Karen Stark, do you remember after COVID, both John David and I lost a sense of smell? Yes, I did. And I first tested it about midnight.

We were up watching Elf, the Christmas movie. And I realized I couldn't smell Lucy's cookies she was making. And we went and stuck our noses in the coffee, couldn't smell it. We finally, the ultimate test, got two Sharpies and stuck them up our nostrils, couldn't smell a thing. And I'm like, okay, we've lost our sense of smell. Now, listen to this, Karen Stark. Over a year later, I think my mother smells funny.

Then I thought my friend, who often comes on our program, Renee Rockwell, smelled funny. Same smell. Jackie, sadly, I also thought you smelled funny. Oh, thanks. Finally, I thought, how can all these three people smell like bleach? It's me. I went to the doctor and it was a result, a weird result of COVID having lost my smell. And now I find out through 23andMe, I have increased odor detection, more likely to match a musical pitch. Boy, I wish David had gotten that

one. Fear of height, fear of public speaking. And you learn about these things in order to work on them and maybe even correct them. It talks about possibility of chronic kidney disease, the possibility of hypercholesterolemia. What is that? Is that bad cholesterol? What is that, Dr. Dupree? Basically. Hypercholesterolemia. Yes, hypercholesterolemia.

It is actually you have more what they call bad cholesterol or LDL, the low density, than you do the high density. And therefore, you are more susceptible to things like stroke, hardening of the arteries, even heart attacks. Well, I dodged that one. So I guess it's okay to order another round of Krispy Kremes. Let's see. Well, I'll jump in here. Jump in. So our report, yeah, our report specifically on familial hypercholesterolemia, which is

an inherited form. Oh, so. And so, about 250 people have this. And so, you're typically very early on, you have very high cholesterol. So, unfortunately, most cases of having high cholesterol are due to a factor of genetics and lifestyle. So, you know, you can't go take a while there well so that's an x now the own it days that's a no to the donuts legal legalese i'm throwing you i'm not gonna say completely not okay it's not a total no why did

okay why does john david have to take his test again? I think, did he screw it up somehow? Why would he have to take his test again? Did he not spit enough? This can happen. So often it's because, you know, like I said, the cells in your cheeks, that's what we're looking for in your spit. So it could be that either there weren't enough cells for whatever reason that made it into his first spit sample. It could be that when we extract the DNA out of those cells, that we didn't get enough. Or it could be that when we are trying to analyze your DNA,

that there was an error or a problem with that analysis. But hopefully, you know, his experience was that he got a second kit, was able to give it a second try, and we were successful on that second try. I'm trying, but you can't eat or drink 30 minutes before, and it's really hard to catch John Davin having not just eaten something. So I'm trying to pin him down before he can eat or drink in the morning to do his spit test. He's a growing boy. Yes, he is. Karen Stark, he's six, five and a half.

And he just turned 15. You know, I feed him full of vegetables every night. Last night he balked at raw carrots. I don't know why, but he did. But I'm working on it. I'm working on it. I'm working on it. Maybe there's a genetic component. Yes, maybe. Guys, it's also very easy to view online. I don't know how it's going to be to print it off when I make Lucy's Christmas scroll, but that's not all

I'm giving her. I'm giving her some other things too. And of course, Santa's coming. You can delete your account, discard your sample. No one can access your information if that's the way you want it. I'm really happy that I took the test. I'm really happy that I will be able to answer some of Lucy's questions. She's British. She gets some Scandinavian from her father. She gets a lot of Irish from me. She and, I'm assuming since they're twins, John David, they're both going to have Ashkenazi genes within them. Of course, that opens up to a lot of health issues we're going to look into. But now I know. And now I can do something about it for them.

I'm just really glad it came into my life. Hey, let's do round robin. Final thoughts, Dr. Michelle Dupree? I think this is a wonderful thing. You can actually change your lifestyle based on the information that you know and have a better life, a healthier life. This is great. You know, it really is.

Isn't it great to be talking about genetic markers when it's not connected to a crime? Okay, Karen Stark, jump in. I just think that, I mean, I did it. And there was nothing that was frightening. I felt like if I needed to, I would certainly consult with a doctor or a genetic counselor. But there was a lot of things, there were things that I found out that were fun, like the chocolate or the vanilla, because my whole family likes vanilla. And people are like, what? No chocolate? It was really a lot of fun to get that information.

What about it? Elisa Lehman joining me, PhD, Senior Manager, Product Science at 23andMe. I mean, I think it's great to hear the good experiences that people are having. And it's exactly what we want as a starting point. Start your journey either with your ancestry or with your health. Take this and make good choices going forward. And to Stacey Detweiler, or maybe this is to Elisa. I'm not sure who would feel this, but we almost didn't do it.

And I'll tell you why. When I said, hey, twins, you want to do 23andMe? After I told him what it was, John Davis said, no, mom, because I don't want my great, great grandson to be busted on a felony because I gave a DNA sample. And I almost said, where did you hear that? And then, of course, I knew where he heard it, from me, okay, Talking about ancestral family trees. And I just want to point out to allay my son, John David's fears. 23andMe has never once handed over information to law enforcement.

And again, they give you the option. If you want your test destroyed, it's destroyed. When you say do it. Stacey Detweiler, final thought. You know, I think our mission is for people to access, understand, and benefit from this information. And it's so great to hear

that it seems like you've done that. We are all about empowerment, right? This is your information. You have access to it, learn so much from it, and empower you to make the decisions that are going to lead to a longer, happier, healthier life. Ultimately what we want. I just want to say thank you to 23andMe for all the questions you've answered. And I will let you know how Lucy responds on Christmas morning. Thanks, guys.

Goodbye, friends. This is an iHeart podcast