Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - 29-year-old Colorado mom Kelsey Berreth grabs purse, drops tot-daughter and VANISHES. FBI brings in a backhoe

Episode Date: December 17, 2018

Investigators made a public appeal for the fiance' of missing Colorado mother Kelsey Berreth to sit down for a police interview, although they are not calling Patrick Frazee a suspect. The FBI helped Woodland Park, Colorado, police scour Frazee's 35-area ranch for any clues in the 29-year-old's disappearance. Nancy Grace explores the evidence with Atlanta juvenile judge & lawyer Ashley Willcott, private investigator Vincent Hill, New York psychologist Caryn Stark, and CrimeOnline reporter Ellen Killoran. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho. No, it's not Santa. It's Nancy Grace. Are you trying to find the perfect gift for a parent or an expecting parent? Please do not give them another onesie. Don't do it.

And not another plastic toy that's going to end up in the trash bin or the garage or sent to Goodwill. This holiday season, give them something that really matters. And what matters more than protecting their child? I sat down with the smartest people in the world that I know when it comes to child safety, finding missing children and fighting back against predators. And what I learned is so critical and the information so powerful and important. I want you to have it. I want them as parents to have it. Go to crimestopshere.com

for a five-part series with action information that you can use to change your life and protect your child. Because I have done it myself based on what they have told me. Give that as a gift, not another onesie, please. Find out how to protect your child. Out and about, at the mall, at the store, at the grocery store, in parking lots, in parking decks, at your home, in your neighborhood. Find out about protection regarding babysitters, nannies, daycare, even protection online. It's the very best gift you can give any parent. Go to crimestopshere.com and join the Justice Nation.

crimestopopshere.com Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I still know somebody knows where she's at. Somebody has seen her. There's more information out there. Somebody just needs to realize, to recognize, and to say something. Has she ever disappeared before? No.

No. I can't think of anywhere she's ever gone that she hasn't told me. It's just not in her character to just take off and be gone. Thanksgiving is the last known time Kelsey Barrett was seen in public. It was at this Safeway store where she was captured by the store's security cameras. Cheryl Barrett says she spoke with Kelsey by phone that day twice. What did you talk about that day? It was just small things.

And initially she needed a recipe. Based on that conversation, there was nothing to make you believe there was anything wrong. Exactly. Yeah, her voice was fine. She was, yeah, she was, it was a normal day for her. Where is a missing mom, Kelsey Barrett? The search intensifies as the mystery deepens. Right now, tick-tock, tick-tock, every hour counts. There is a chance she can still be brought back alive. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

Joining me, Ashley Wilcott, judge, lawyer. You can find her at ashywilcott.com. Karen Smith, forensics expert, joining us out of the Florida jurisdiction. Forensic psychiatrist Dr. Daniel Bober and joining me right now, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter Ellen Killorn. Let's start at the beginning. What happened to Chelsea? Tell me everything.

Give me the beginning of the timeline, Ellen, because that's what's so important. Kelsey disappeared on November 22nd which is Thanksgiving day. We know that on that day she went to a Safeway supermarket near her home in Woodland Park Colorado. She had her one-year-old daughter with her there. After that she met with her fiance Patrick Frazee who she doesn't live with and handed off her daughter she has not been seen since the only time that she's been heard from two messages were sent from her cell phone on monday november 22nd 25th excuse me one was to her fiance and we don't know what that message said and another was to her employer dos aviation where she works as a well whoa whoa whoa wait wait wait

Ellen Killoran crime online.com are you telling me she actually spoke verbally to her employer or texted or email no it was a text it was a text message sent from her phone okay no way I thought you said the last person she spoke to was the fiance and the employer they were both text messages so she spoke to nobody then say that she spoke to nobody other than her mother that previously she the last voice conversation that her mother had with her was on Thanksgiving Day and she saw her fiance in person later that day so the last person she actually spoke with was her

mother several days before she goes missing Ellen Kaloran my dear sweet precious snowflake Ellen you know what let me Karen Smith that why do I always have to be the bad guy can you explain to Ellen why every word counts? It's very important. Did she speak to somebody the day she goes missing? Or was it a text from her phone? Which, guess what? Nobody can find.

Karen, school, my dear Ellen Killoran. I don't think I need to school Ellen, but I'll tell you what. Or you may need to take her to the woodshed having text messages rather than a vocal call I mean come on this is law this is law enforcement and forensics 101 a text message can be sent by anybody who has access to that phone if it's not passcode enforced if you have a thumbprint that actually you have access to because you put your thumbprint on that phone when it was unlocked at some point, it's not that difficult anymore. So if it's only text messages, we don't know who sent them.

They're going to have to go into that phone once they find it and figure out where those text messages were actually sent from. And that leads me to another forensic point. Hold on, Ashley Wilcott. I know you're chomping at the bit. Dr. Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist. Let's go into the mind of someone that would get rid of Chelsea, a mother of a little baby girl. Okay. Get rid of her. And then this is my question. Think to use her phone to cover their tracks and text the boyfriend, the fiance, text the employer and go, oh, I'm taking a week off. That's a whole other animal from somebody flying off the handle

and getting mad at a bar and go, you took my money, bam, you're dead, versus killing somebody, disposing of the body, and then making all these surreptitious texts and you know emails to cover your tracks that's a whole different way of thinking dr. bober I agree Nancy it's on a whole it's on a whole different level but like your previous guest said those text messages you know are going to be valuable because with text messages unlike with vocal communication you know there is going to be the amount of texting the words that

were actually used and you know people that are familiar with her are going to know the way that she communicates and so there's i think a treasure trove of information uh potentially there in those text messages okay ellen calorin are you embarrassed? Because I'm embarrassed for you. I am. Okay, good. Now that you've been totally publicly shamed, now I need some facts from you. It's really important, and I'm kidding around a tiny bit, but it really is crucial. It's crucial when you're trying to establish a timeline, which is where everything starts.

Every investigation starts with a timeline, and the forensics around that timeline so let's talk about these the last time she was seen was how many days before she was reported missing ten days ten days okay just give me short brief answers so we got ten days darn that's a long time now into that ten days when did the texts come in number one and were they pinged and if so from where the text came in on november 25th which is three days after she was last seen okay so hold on jackie's editing this the text came in three days after she went missing. Okay, got it. Three days after she went missing, she texts fiance and employer. Is that correct, Ellen?

That's right. So both of them were texted in one day. That's right. Interesting. And on the same day, her phone was pinged in Idaho, about 600 miles away from where she lived. But authorities have said they can't confirm that she was actually with her phone at the time but they can confirm that ping we know that the ping is correct yes okay joining me right now judge lawyer Ashley Wilcott Ashley weigh in on what we have

ferreted out so far well you know I do have a lot to say about this Nancy so here's the thing we don't know what happened to her best case she decided to take off God willing God hoping because that would mean she's sick Ashley Ashley Ashley Ashley you know how I feel about you and your family and your great, great, great, great grandparents that came over on the Mayflower. But, Ashley, how can you even fix your mouth to say that? Maybe she went away. This girl is no idiot. She's a flight instructor.

Isn't that right, Ellen Killoran? She's a flight instructor? That's right. I mean, this woman can get up in a plane and fly around and teach other people she's no idget but she loses her phone well maybe maybe she had some freak out if i need to take a little break that's my prayer okay so go back to the reality wait wait wait wait wait ashley i'm back on you i'm on you like a cheap suit. A girl that wants a break. Okay.

This is, let's look at what we know. And I may have to go back to the shrink on this one. Ashley Wilcott, a woman that's calling her mom for a recipe is not a woman who's going to leave her mom hanging out in the wind. Doesn't know where you are. Worried sick about you. Not taking care of your baby girl. No, I mean, you see the dichotomy there, right? Like I call my mother, I call Miss Talbert from my little Methodist church in Macon,

various people for recipes, okay, because I love them. And their knowledge means something to me. Those are the people you love that you call for recipes, Ashley. Okay, so now Nancy's embarrassed me because you're right. I'm so happy. I feel so much misery today. Go ahead. So here's the thing about the texts on the phone and not knowing if the phone's with her.

We see it all. So regrettably, someone could easily think, oh, I'm just going to text this person and this person or text the boyfriend so they think she's fine. And that gives me more time with her because we don't know if she's dead, if she's been abducted and she's being held somewhere. So it is not outside the realm of possibilities. Well, let me give you all something to think about. And Maul, why did the fiance put up a stink about giving DNA? Kelsey's fiance, Patrick Frazee, told police he last saw her Thanksgiving afternoon when he picked up their daughter. Kelsey was not reported missing until 10 days later by her mother. Patrick has done everything that he has been asked for by law enforcement.

Jeremy Lowe, Patrick Frazee's attorney, says his client has been interviewed by law enforcement, voluntarily released his phone to be searched by investigators, and provided photographs along with cheek swabs for DNA. Police have said Frazee is cooperating. I have no reason to believe that he is a suspect, and the police have not isolated him as a suspect in this case. Frazee and Barrett do not live together, but Barrett's mother says their bond is strong. The relationship has been good. They're loving.

She remains hopeful her daughter will be found. The speculation hasn't been helpful. Don't try to figure this out. We've got people trying to do that. Just share the photo. There's more important things to be done. At this point, police say the case remains a missing persons investigation. In the back of my mind, sure, there's a possibility something else could have happened, but it does me no good to go down that road, and I don't think it does Kelsey any good either. 29-year-old Kelsey Barrett has not been seen since she was recorded on surveillance cameras in a grocery store in Woodland Park, Colorado, with her baby daughter. Her fiancé, Patrick Frazee, tells that she dropped the baby off after that grocery store trip, and he has not seen or heard from her since.

Now, the two have never lived together despite being engaged in sharing a daughter. Interesting, the fiance was not present at a press conference and has been scrutinized on social media for refusing to speak openly about missing Chelsea. But despite that scrutiny, her mother says they had a very good relationship. Straight out to Ellen Kalora in CrimeOnline.com, investigative reporter. Ellen, why don't you tell me about the fiancé, because that is where every timeline starts. The last time someone was seen or spoken to verbally, not by text or email. Tell me about the fiancé.

That's right. He was the last person to see her. And we know that he was not the person who contacted police. His lawyer, and he's been with her daughter. His lawyer has released a statement and says that he is now cooperating with police. He did give a DNA swab of his mouth. He did hand over his phone. But he did not attend a press conference earlier this week where her mother did attend and spoke and begged for her daughter's return. His lawyer claims that Patrick didn't know about the press conference until an hour before it began. Otherwise, he would have been there. An hour? He didn't give a word to the media.

That's what the lawyer said. Kelsey Barrett, 29, has not been spotted since she went grocery shopping with her baby, Woodland Park, Colorado. Fiancee tells cops she dropped the baby off afterwards at his home, has not been seen since. Her phone pinged about 700

miles away from where she was last seen three days later. Now, does that make sense to you, Karen Smith, forensics expert, 700 miles in three days? Does that make sense? It can be done. Well, sure, it can be done, but none of it makes sense to me, Nancy. First of all, if my fiance had gone missing, I would be freaking out after three hours. First of all, 10 days, 10 days. She was reported missing missing 10 days later and the cell phone thing 700 miles away are you kidding me i would be all over the press i would be in front of every

camera that would put my face on television i would be talking to everyone and anyone if i had nothing to do with this 10 days is a long time to pass ashley wilcott I'm looking at the video right now she comes in the front of the grocery store she's carrying the baby in a car seat oh it looks just like the ones I would carry the twins in double-fisted she puts the car seat in the front of a cart with the baby facing her you know that top area and then she drives off she's got a coat. Her hair's back in a bun. The baby's all bundled up. All right. So what do we know about him originally not giving DNA? Because at this juncture, Ashley Wilcott, he has done interviews.

He has released his phone to be searched. He's given buckle swabs, which is, you know, a mouth swab, and photographs. On the other hand, Ashley, I guess his lawyer said, look, if you don't give it to them willingly, they can get a warrant from you and take it from you. Right. That's what the lawyer is going to advise him. But let me ask you this. Why get a lawyer in the first place if you're not involved?

And second, 10 days. I agree with your guess. 10 days. Who waits 10 days to figure out where somebody is, especially the mother of your one-year-old? You know, he also, the lawyer says that, what does this mean to you, Dr. Daniel Bober? You're the forensic psychiatrist. The lawyer has added that the fiance, Frazee, will not speak publicly because he does not want to, quote, impede the police investigation. Yeah, I mean, Nancy, a lot of this stuff is not dispositive, but it's certainly very suspicious. I mean, he's sort of reluctantly cooperating and sort of has to be dragged to do it.

So that's definitely concerning, and it seems like he definitely has something to hide, although, again, it's not dispositive. Well, I agree with you because let me go to you, Ashley Wilcott. When the chief of police at Woodland Park, Chief Miles DeYoung, was asked at the press conference about the fiance not being there, he simply said you'd have to ask him. OK, let's see. I can read a lot into that response Ashley absolutely he's not cooperating and it sounds like law enforcement's frustrated because where most people who have a missing person in their life do anything and everything they can and give law enforcement every shred of everything they need the boyfriend is not doing that the fiancee is not cooperating. So I think it does indicate something's amiss. Now, the brother, Clint Bereth, said that he realized she was missing and he goes to her home. And what the brother, Clint Bereth, says is the only thing missing from the home was her pocketbook.

Her luggage, her makeup, all untouched. And her two vehicles are still at the home Ellen Kaloran you left that little detail out both her cars are at the house her luggage her makeup all that the only thing missing is her pocketbook which I'd like to point out she had with her when she was at the grocery store that's right um and not only was all of that stuff left behind, but there was also some cinnamon rolls that she had clearly just baked that day that by the time they got there, they were cold. But she was baking in her kitchen and it looks like she just pulled out the rolls to cool and had every intention of coming back. There are absolutely no signs in the home that she was planning on going away for any amount of time take a listen to our friends at inside edition reporting on kelsey barrett's disappearance guys the tip line

716-687-9262 716-687-9262 another number 719-647-5999 719-647-5999. 719-647-5999. This little baby deserves to be with mommy on Christmas morning. Listen. We talked just Thanksgiving morning. A mother of missing Kelsey Barrett shares more of what happened on the last day she saw her daughter. This is video of what police believe is one of the last times she was seen. Here she is walking into a Safeway grocery store near her town in Colorado with her one-year-old daughter. Cheryl Barrett speaks with CBS News. Did she sound normal? Definitely. She sounded happy.

A few days after her disappearance, detectives say a text message was sent from her phone to her employer saying she would not be showing up to work the following week. Another text was sent to her fiance. Cell phone tower data indicates the phone was hundreds of miles away outside Gooding, Idaho. But investigators have not found Berreth there. It just makes no sense, I guess. It just makes no sense. I guess it just makes no sense that we can't find her. We have to keep looking.

Hi, Nancy Grace here. Have you ever googled yourself, your neighbors, somebody at work, a crush? 57% of Americans admit to keeping an eye on their own online reputation. 46% admit to using the internet to look up somebody from their past. But Google and Facebook, the tip of the iceberg when it comes to finding personal information. There's an innovative new website called Truthfinder. It's now revealing the full scoop on millions of Americans. Truthfinder can search through hundreds of millions of public records in a matter of minutes. Truthfinder members can literally begin searching in seconds

for sensitive data like criminal, traffic, arrest records. Before you bring someone new into your life and around the people you care for, your children, consider using Truthfinder. What you find may astound you. Go to truthfinder.com forward slash Nancy right away to start searching. Truthfinder.com forward slash Nancy. Truthfinder.com forward slash Nancy. Find the truth. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. the door. She's not responding to packages, phone calls. I've had other friends reach out to her. None of us can get her to respond to us. They have two little girls, three and four. I mean, there's no movement in the house whatsoever. And he states that she didn't take them to daycare

and was going to go on a play date, but they're both in car seats and her car is here. But I went to the doctor's office because I've been using them as doctors. And I said, I know you can't give me things because of HIPAA, but can you just tell me if she showed up at her appointment this morning? And the lady was like, no, she did not. Okay. Is that unusual behavior for her to not show up toward our department? No. Okay.

No, no. She, I mean, pregnancy, like, she was so excited and then got blindsided from her husband that he wanted to separate a week ago. And her husband's name is Chris? Yes, her name is Chris Watts. It was a friend, not Chris Watts, that called police to make that 911 emergency call. A friend of Shanann Watts. And notice she's saying that Shanann has left her car at home with the car seats in it, which is critical in this case because Shanann would not go anywhere.

She was gone, the children were gone, but because Shanann would not go anywhere. She was gone, the children were gone, but the car seats were in the car. That's a big giveaway that somewhere she's got the two little girls, Bella and Celeste, with her. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories, and we are sifting through the facts as we know them. Anything could happen in the Chris Watts case. Anything. We now know that Chris Watts, as we suspected, murdered his beautiful wife, Shanann, their daughters, Bella and Celeste, ages 3 and 4, and their unborn child, Nico, 15 weeks long. But why?

Was there a sign? Was there a red flag? Is there any way Shanann could have saved her life and the two lives of her children? We now have obtained details about the recovery of the three bodies, the four bodies. Shanann had given birth to baby Nico 15 weeks along. He was delivered into her underwear and found in the shallow grave. It's called coffin birth, when the uterus prolapses and the child, the uterus can no longer hold the child in. The children were found, Bella and Celeste, and I want you to brace yourself if you don't already know these facts, stuffed, literally stuffed with injured bones to do it, into oil canisters whose openings

were only eight inches in diameter. Those children's bodies were stuffed into the oil canisters. When the workers tried to get in, they had to drain the huge drums. They're big, big. And they were going in and out in hazmat suits. They could only stay in one or two minutes at a time. They looked in and they saw in one of the canisters, a little girl in the corner, face down, slumped over in the corner. And when they tried to pull her out, again, brace yourself, they said that she de-gloved. That is a euphemism. That is putting perfume on the pig. What that means is when they grasped her hand, her arm, to lift her up,

her skin slid off her body. It happened to both little girls, different parts of their bodies, where they would try to pick up the little girls, and their skin would just come off. Meanwhile, Chris Watts is bragging to police about, you know, how much weight he's lost and we find out about multiple lovers and the double life he was leading all along. With me, Ellen Kaloran, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Alexis Tereszczuk, RadarOnline.com investigative reporter. Alexis Tereszczuk, RadarOnline.com investigative reporter.

Karen Stark, renowned New York psychologist. North Carolina family and divorce lawyer, a veteran courtroom gladiator, Kathleen Murphy, and special guest, Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, and author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Straight out to Ellen Kaloran, CrimeOnline.com, investigative reporter. She and Alexa's breaking so much news in this case. You know, at any moment, I fully believe that Chris Watts is so volatile, and his parents are still standing behind him.

And I would not be surprised if at some juncture, Chris Watts tries to contest his guilty plea. Be careful what you ask, my dear, for you will surely get it. He could get a trial if a judge went along with that. And I believe the state would seek the death penalty on him. But Ellen Kaloran, I want to talk to you. What is the new evidence you've discovered? As we heard in the 911 call, I think that one very important thing here is even though people on Chris Watt's side of things, including his family, will say he was the best guy ever, he was the greatest guy ever. Shanon's friends knew that something was up and they knew it pretty quickly. He claims that Shanon went on a play date and brought her two daughters.

But as her friend says in the 911 call, the car seats are still in the back of the car. Another friend, Cassie, who's among several people who were frantically looking for Shanon Watts that morning, says to Chris, where are you? Get over to your house or I'm going to call the police. The police are going to bust down your door. And Chris said to her, don't call the police. But fortunately, Nicole Atkinson did call the police and they were there waiting for him. No matter what Chris Watts tries to claim or tried to claim about how his daughters were killed, one thing stands undisputed. The fact that he put those bodies into a tiny little eight-inch space. And when he first confesses to investigators about how he disposed of them,

they can't believe it. They are incredulous that he was able to get those bodies in there. And the first investigators to go out to the incredulous that he was able to get those bodies in there. And the first investigators to go out to the scene saw that there was hair on the opening to one of those oil tanks. But Chris Watts insisted it was no trouble at all. It was easy. There's no way that's true. And that tells you everything about what you need, about what kind of person Chris was at that time. Alexis Tereszczuk, weigh in on what we have learned, not only from this 911 call, but from the text that Ellen and you have managed to obtain.

So Shanann was texting with her friends. She was gone on a business trip the weekend before she was murdered. And she was telling them that she was afraid her marriage was over, that there was nothing that she was going to be able to do to fix it. She had fallen out of love with her. He wasn't physical with her when they were on vacation together. And she just said, I'm afraid there's nothing I can do. And she was in a panic. This is her marriage that had been years. They'd been together forever. Two children, one on the way. And all of a sudden, on the turn of a dime, he had stopped loving her and stopped being affectionate. She was frantically trying to figure out what she could do.

And that's what the text messages show. They show, she says, what if there's nothing I can do? What if this is really, really over? I don't know what to do. And her friends were writing back and saying there must be an explanation because they'd all seen their wonderful relationship. Everybody had seen them together. He was a great husband.

They were so cute. They were so excited that they were having another baby. They were just about to do a gender reveal party. And instead, she knew that he was seeing someone. He had spent $62 at a restaurant, and she found that out while she was with her friends. And that is more money than one person would have spent at this restaurant because they looked up online. He said he had salmon and beer, and her friends looked it up with her, and salmon and beer did not cost $62. So these friends knew that this marriage was a crisis. So when she was texting them about how unhappy and how scared she was for the future of her marriage, they knew that there was something wrong too. To Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, you're right about at least one

of the children fighting back. The four-year-old daughter, Bella, did fight back. And this is how we know that. As he strangled her before shoving her little body into an oil drum. Because Bella actually bit her own tongue. As she tried to stop her dad from suffocating her. And the autopsy reveals that her body was totally scraped as he tried to cram her body through a very small hatch in an oil tank where he hid her and baby sister Celeste.

Can you just imagine the horror in that little girl's mind as she fought for her life? No, no, I absolutely can't, Nancy. And it just out of nowhere in this environment in which you feel very, very safe. You know, you talked about how she was crammed into this space, this hatch in the top, this eight-inch hole. Can I say something real quick in my research that I've found? Do you know what the name of those hatches are called on top of those tanks? And this is rife with irony. Those are actually referred to as thief hatches, Nancy. And I find it interesting here because he literally stole these

little girls' lives, unaware. This person that was tasked with taking care of them, with loving them, with providing for them, stole their lives and just jammed them and stuffed them away like a He is a hero. He helps me grow up strong. He helps me snuggle too. He reads me books. He ties my shoes. If you're a hero, blue and blue, my daddy, daddy, I love you. You are hearing Chris Watts' daughter in her car seat singing, My Daddy is a Hero, the same dad, Chris Watts, that then killed her, her little sister, the mom, Shanann, and the baby. And right now I'm looking at texts between Shanann and her friends, and she's now talking to her friends. What am I going to do? What am I going to do? She says, I can't do this alone with three children. I'm not happy. And the friend's trying to talk her into keeping baby Nico because she desperately wanted the baby

boy. And she says, Shanann, I keep asking him again and again because he ignored me when I asked, did he want the baby? And he said, no. So to Karen Stark, New York psychologist, what does that mean to you? She's writing texts to her friends. Chris does not want this baby. That he's happy with Bella and Celeste. He thought he wanted another baby. And how I got this out of him, I said to him, do you want me to abort?

You know, Nancy, what would have been amazingly wonderful at that point was for her to realize that that is a terrible sign. Here's a guy who enjoys being a father, once had the baby, he has this whole thing where they're a great family, and now he's saying he doesn't want the baby after she's already pregnant. That is a sign that something is very, very wrong. And unfortunately, she didn't realize that. You know, to Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina family lawyer, divorce lawyer. I've said it a million times, Kathleen, why not just get a divorce for Pete's sake? I don't understand this thinking. People have a misconception of what a divorce really entails. I'm a mediator. And I tell people that come in to see me that we are required to mediate so many issues

before we even head into litigation or hearings. And it's not a process to be afraid of. That's why I offer at my office a consultation at no charge and I've been doing that for 30 years because we need to squash that myth that a divorce can be so terrifying and destructive it's really not it's really not Nancy well let me ask you this Kathleen you've got the husband saying abort the baby she's already at 15 weeks okay So that she's in her third month. Let me ask you about the possibility that Chris Watts is going to contest his guilty plea. You know, that's happened many, many times where someone comes up with an excuse. They contest

their guilty plea. They get a trial. You know, Colorado has the death penalty. He's a narcissist. He is never going to be wrong. And it's always going to be a self-focus. I would not be surprised if that comes down the pipes. Look at the Scott Peterson, rid of habeas corpus. Oh, dear Lord in heaven. Exactly.

You know, here's another issue. Joe Scott Morgan, you have carefully, you're the forensics expert, professor of forensics at Jackson State University. What do we learn from the bodies that implicate him? who reports on these four, actually four innocents here, with Cece, the youngest, there is little or no trauma or anything that's going to give you an indication of how she was killed. I think a lot of that is through process of elimination, going back to her older sister with Bella. When Chris Watts, and I can say this in the affirmative now, when Chris Watts suffocated Bella, he forcefully held his hand over her face or put a pill over her face to the period, to the point where she's convulsing and ripping the

interior, the little attachments of tissue in her mouth, as well as biting her tongue. With Shanann, she's got a single mark on the right side of her neck. There's actually hemorrhage. If people just feel to the right side of the cartilage on their neck, there's an area in there called strap muscles. And she's got a focal area of hemorrhage. That's why I think she was probably, you know, everybody, every lady in the audience that has been pregnant, you know, you can't get comfortable. She's probably sleeping on her left side. I think that he approached from her right rear and wrapped his hand around her neck from the rear and choked her out. And that's how she got this mark on the right side of her neck because she's laying on the left side of her body

to try to be comforted as she sleeps with baby Nico in her womb. You know, it's also amazing. Is it true, Alexis Tereshak, RadarOnline.com, that Chris Watts is already getting love letters, love letters behind bars? He killed his wife and children and women are writing him love letters. It's not like he was tried and there's some question about his innocence. He pled guilty. Okay, so nobody can have the illusion that he's wrongly convicted he pled guilty and women are still writing him they want to sleep with him behind bars they are so we have obtained so many letters from women these are handwritten 10 page letters

and cursive curlicue writing with heart emojis the people you know draw hearts and smiley faces just telling chris that they think he looks like a beautiful soul and they feel a connection to him and they he should because they just know that they have a you know a good way that they can really bring him out of these dark places these women are crazy that are writing to him and it's not just one there are multiple letters of people they're writing they send pictures of themselves so he can see how beautiful they are and just say, don't you see that we have this connection? I can help you. I can be the one. And I feel a love that I'm sending towards you. It's really disturbing that people do this. This

man, he killed his entire family and he confessed to the police that he killed them. And they still think that he's this wonderful man because he's so good-looking. He's not good-looking. Quit saying that, Alexis. He's not good-looking. When I look at him, I just see the devil. We wait as more of this investigation unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.