Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - 3-year-old Maddie McCann murder suspect linked to multiple missing children.

Episode Date: July 2, 2020

German investigators say a man already in custody is responsible for the death of 3-year-old Maddie McCann. Reports are that Maddie's parents have been sent a letter say they have credible information that their daughter is dead. The family says they have not received a letter. So what's the truth? Is Maddie McCann still alive after 13 years? Joining Nancy Grace today: Jason Oshins, New York Defense Attorney Dr Daniel Bober - Forensic Psychiatrist, follow on Instagram at drdanielbober Cloyd Steiger - 36 years Seattle Police Department, 22 years Homicide detective, Author "Seattle's Forgotten Serial Killer-Gary Gene Grant" www.cloydsteiger.com Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author,"Blood Beneath My Feet" Dave Mack - Crime Online Investigative Reporter Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Will it never end for the family of three-year-old Maddie McCann, the beautiful little girl who was snatched from her own bed while on vacation with her parents. Can you imagine being away from on vacation, away from your home and your familiar surroundings, lulled into a false sense of complacency, and your baby goes missing? You hardly even know where you are, where to look, who to call, what to do. That is exactly what happened to the parents of three-year-old Maddie. And to this day, no answers. But is there finally a break in the case?

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Is there finally a break in the case? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. First of all, take a listen to our friends at Sky News. A three-year-old British girl has gone missing in the Algarve in Portugal, of course. We can speak now to Dan Mason, who's a journalist who works in that area.

Dan, thanks for joining us on Sky News Sunrise this morning. What are the details that you've gleaned so far? Hi there, yeah. All I basically know is that the child was obviously staying at a Mark Warner establishment and was reported missing around PM last night. And most of the people within the area were searching through to about 4 o'clock in the morning yesterday, and obviously through hedges and down the beach, et cetera, to no avail. And I've just been down this morning to the club again to see if there's any more news, and the situation is basically the same. As the days pass, the situation stays the same. There's been a lot of finger pointing.

Everybody says it's somebody else's fault. But bottom line, I believe investigators there at the holiday resort dropped the ball. But is there a break in the case finally? You know, her parents must be worn down to a nub, just raw. After all this time looking for their little girl, Maddie McCann, joining me in all-star panel to break it down and put it back together again, renowned attorney joining me out of New York this morning, Jason Oceans, forensic psychiatrist. You can find him on Insta at Dr. Daniel Bober.

Chloe Steiger, 36 years Seattle pd 22 of that homicide and author of seattle's forgotten serial killer gary gene grant he's at cloydsteiger.com joseph scott morgan professor forensics jacksonville state university author of blood beneath my feet on amazon but on Amazon, but straight out to Dave Mack, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, Dave Mack. Who is this German dude that is now suspect number one? Who is he? Let's just start with that. His name is Christian Bruckner. He's 43 years old, as you mentioned, from Germany, who traveled back and forth between Germany, Portugal, and Italy. Pause. Pause. Just tell me one thing. Is he connected in any way to a staffs for child pornography? Yes, ma'am. He is. That's really all I need to know right there. Do I need to know anything else? Let me guess. White male, loner, lives in somebody's attic apartment,

something like that. Am I even close, Dave Mack? Am I just a little close? Bullseye, Nancy. Bullseye. Ugh. And all this time, this perv has been right under the nose of police. The noses of police.

Tell me some more about this guy. Just, we know he's connected for sure to child porn. Does he have, Dave Mack, CrimeOnline.com, does he have a criminal history? He's got a long criminal history that includes robberies, burglaries, and he has been convicted of sexual abuse of a child way back in 1994. That was his first date. Wait, wait. You know, Dave Mack, you know how I feel about you. You know, I respect you. I care about you.

You're on our team. But why in the hay do you bury the lead? The guy has child porn and he's got an abuse on a child conviction. Headline. What else do we know about him, Dave Mack? Well, you're correct. And the reason I pointed out the Robbery's burglary and tourist thing is because that's how he slipped under in the cracks in this investigation, beginning with the Portugal authorities. You know, you just said something about tourist. What about tourist? Where does

that fit into his criminal history? Nancy, he was actually known to burglarize the apartments and hotel rooms of tourists in this particular place in Portugal where Matty McCann went missing. Now I get your reasoning, Dave Mack. Hold on, Jackie's waving a note at me that says R-A-P-E. Dave Mack, why is she waving that at me? Because he actually... It's called rape, Dave. He actually...

What? He planned the rape of a 72-year-old American woman living in Portugal in 2005. He was... It's just the most disgusting thing, but it was right near the very place where Maddie McCann went missing. This is two years. She, Jackie's telling me two rapes. You've got the 72-year-old woman.

Did he or did he not rape the 72-year-old woman? Yes, he raped the 72-year-old woman. So he didn't just plan it, as you just said. He raped her. Is there another rape in his criminal history? In his first conviction of sexual assault rape in 1994. Is there another rape in his criminal history? In his first conviction of sexual assault rape in 1994. Is that on the child? Yes, ma'am. Boy or girl? Boy. And there's another tourist. I mean, Joe Scott

Morgan, Cloyd Steiger, Dr. Daniel Bober, Jason Oceans. This guy should have been locked up under the jail. But all the signs are there, Cloyd. Cloyd Steiger, 22 years in homicide. Here's a guy that has been breaking in to tourist hotel rooms. Jackie, did I ever tell you that happened to me one time?

No. David and I went to Florida, and we had been on the beach. He went somewhere, and I was in the shower in the hotel room. I thought I heard a door, but then I listened. I didn't hear anything. When I got out of the shower, my pocketbook, everything in my pocketbook was gone. And people have an M.O. An M.O., would you agree with that, Cloyd Steiger? This guy had an M.O. An M.O., would you agree with that, Cloyd Steiger?

This guy had an M.O. He raped a 72-year-old woman in that tourist area. And his M.O., modus operandi, method of operation, was that he would break into hotel rooms while tourists were out of their hotel room. And that night, Cloyd Steiger, Maddie McCann's parents were having dinner about, I think it was, Dave Mack, if anybody knows, correct me on the distance,

about 100 yards away at an outdoor table. And they would go back and check on the children asleep in their rooms every 20 minutes. About 180 feet away. So they were out of their room. Who's that, Dave? Is that you? They were about 180 feet away, and as you said, they all took turns checking on the kids. 180 feet away.

That's much closer. Okay, so, Cloy Stiger, M.O. That's what this guy is known for, plus a pedophilic rape on a child. He's the perfect candidate. Yeah, he is. My understanding is they didn't know he was a sex offender, rape on a child. He's the perfect candidate. Yeah, he is. My understanding is they didn't know he was a sex offender, which is no excuse because anybody that limits themselves to known sex offenders and these types of things shouldn't be doing this job because it's not always somebody who has a previous conviction.

So, yeah, they completely ignored this guy. I have no idea why. I read something where the lead investigator was really zeroed in on appearance. And that's what a bad investigator does when he decides what the answer is and only looks for evidence to support his thesis instead of just being open to where the evidence takes him. Well, you know what? I don't even understand at all how you don't look for people that have committed sex crimes or burglaries. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about a major break in the case of beautiful three-year-old Maddie McCann,

who is kidnapped from her parents' hotel room while they're on vacation. She was asleep. Someone came into the hotel room and took Maddie, leaving her siblings undisturbed. Guys, I want you to take a listen to our friends at Inside Edition. A German convict is now a suspect in the 2007 disappearance of Madeleine McCann, the British child who went missing from a resort in Portugal when she was just three years old. 43-year-old Christian Bruckner is currently incarcerated in his home country on unrelated crimes. The BBC reports authorities have been investigating him since 2017,

after a friend of his came forward to report he made disturbing comments about McCann while in a bar watching coverage of the 10th anniversary of her disappearance. German police reportedly said Bruckner lived in the region of Portugal where Madeline was last seen. The child disappeared from the hotel her family was staying in during a vacation. Disturbing comments he made in a bar watching the Maddie McCann coverage. When Maddie first goes missing. Back to you, Dave Mack joining me from CrimeOnline.com. I understand that this freak, and I'm saying that because he's connected to child pornography, and apparently he moved

to this area after serving part of a two-year sentence for molesting a six-year-old girl in Wurzburg. At the time Maddie went missing, he was living in an area about a 10-minute drive away. So the child molestations are piling up. He lives 10 minutes away, and he burglarizes hotel rooms. I'm very stunned the cops didn't see him, and I understand, Dave Mack, that Bruckner had been a person of interest at the get-go but then he was eliminated why well and i need to correct something earlier i said that his first conviction was a nine-year-old boy it was a girl nancy and i apologize onto this still a child go ahead ma'am uh with this he was eliminated as a suspect because they were specifically looking for sexual predators, for those convicted of sexual harassment, abuse, and rape.

He, at that time, Portugal only had him listed as a foreign thief, as a robber. They didn't have Christian Bruckner on their list as a sexual predator, even though… Why? They just didn't. And, you know, it goes back to, we said the Portugal authorities dropped the ball from the beginning. They did. Bad part is they passed that information along to others so that they, he was eliminated as a suspect in the early days of this investigation when he should have been the primary suspect. You know, no offense to all our friends overseas, but to you, Joseph Scott Morgan,

Professor Forensic Death Investigator, have you ever seen Pink Panther? The movie. Oh, yeah. It's not the actual panther, the comic panther that's pink. Yeah, yeah. Inspector Cusack. You know how, yeah,

you know how the police are portrayed as bumbling idgits in particularly that country? But when you hear stories like this, they did not have him on their list of sex offenders? Look, I mean, I know cops are overloaded overloaded I get it I've been there as a prosecutor but how could you not have this guy on your list he was just convicted of raping a little girl yeah it's tragic because this could have been interdicted far in advance you know before it ever I don't know if tragic's the right word because tragic to me seems like it was a tragic incident or tragic accident this is no accident this is flat out incompetence for them not to have a child sex predator on their list yeah and therefore he

was eliminated you're talking about one of the things that complicates this is you have the sovereignty of these individual nations. It's not like going from, you know, Alabama to Georgia, from New York to, you know, I know, Vermont, New Hampshire or whatever. It's a it's a major pain. And, you know, they do have what's referred to as Interpol. But I've worked with Interpol before, Nancy, on missing persons cases. And it is just kind of this loosey goosey kind of soft in the middle kind of thing. It's kind of like a clearing house without any real power. Yeah, they don't. They don't. They don't have. And, you know, when we begin to think now about

things like databases and all this thing and, you know, moving forward, you know, it's become more solid relative to things like DNA databases. The problem with someone like this for, you know, they're from a behavior standpoint is the fact that they will collect things. And I think that this guy, he's in multiple locations. If you had that information from that, from those bits of evidence like DNA, you may have been able to kind of connect the dots more effectively if you had a database that you could go to that Interpol would set up. Now, they might have that now, but back during this period of time, they didn't. And it turned out to be a total dumpster fire. And here's the problem. Not only are we talking about Maddie,

Nancy, this guy is moving between all of these different countries. How many other children are there? Well, keeping up with it, Jason Oceans joining me, a renowned defense attorney in the tri-state area, joining me today from New York. Jason Oceans, the reality is he is connected to many different young children, and they all, whether they're boys or girls, look very similar physically, and they all are similar in many ways to Maddie McCann's appearance. Jason, even here in the States where we have APHIS, where we have, you've got a fingerprint database, you've got a DNA database, you've got a DNA database, you've got a gun database. They don't have all that

in Portugal and the surrounding areas. But we know this, we know his MO, we know where he travels, but even so, how is it that he slipped between jurisdictional limits? How'd that happen? Initially, bad policing, right? Not taking the time to really circle around beyond the parents without the reason to think that they would just come here to Portugal to dispose of their three-year-old daughter. Nothing in the background that I saw then nor now after all these years indicated that they were responsible. It reminded me of the

Eitan Patz case in New York where a six-year-old went missing. And again, it turned right away to the parents, and yet it was right under the noses at the corner bodega. So sometimes drawing the line in the inference right away precludes you from thinking outside that circle. Or even perhaps did he have an assistant letting him know where these hotel rooms were unguarded or better targets to go. So I just think from the onset, this investigation was doomed. You know, you kind of sound like you're blaming police. And I agree that they were inept and really screwed up the case.

But the police are not the ones that took Maddie out of her room and raped her and killed her. And at this juncture, we've been told several different things. We've been told the police have told Maddie McCann's parents in a letter, which I think is kind of cold, that she's dead. The parents are saying, we have received no such letter. To Dr. Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist, you can find him on Insta at Dr. Daniel Bober. How hard is this for the parents, what they've been through? Oh, you know, Nancy, it's every parent's worst nightmare. It's absolutely devastating.

And there's really nothing that you're going to say or do that's going to make that pain go away. And it's going to be a pain that's going to last for life, absolutely. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about a beautiful little three-year-old girl who goes on vacation with her parents. I remember it like it was yesterday. And they put her down to sleep with her brothers and sisters or siblings. She's never seen alive again. Now, a lot of people have blamed the parents.

And yes, they were out of the hotel room having dinner. Am I happy about that? No. But they are not responsible for her kidnap. They're not involved. For years, they endured suggestions that they were. They've never given up trying to find Maddie McCann, their little girl. Take a listen to our friends at CBC. We know that he's a 43-year-old German man.

He is white. Now, because of Germans' privacy laws, we don't know his identity. But what police have said is that he has a history of sexual violence, including against children, and that he's actually in prison right now, convicted of a sex crime. We also know that he was living in the area where Madeline disappeared at the time of her disappearance. And UK Met Police have actually released some photos of vehicles that he had driven at that time 13 years ago. So, again, we don't know his identity of police.

I've simply said that he has a history of not just sexual violence, actually, but of break-ins, of burglaries. He was known to go into people's homes and steal their things, and of course of violence. So this is a huge, huge breakthrough. We know his name now. It's Christian Bruckner with a long rap sheet including sex abuse on little children, very similar physically to Maddie McCann, and breaking into the exact resort, into hotel rooms, where Maddie McCann was kidnapped. Also, the rape of a 72-year-old woman near that resort. That's what we know about him. How police let him slip through their fingers, I do not know. But right now, take a listen to Mark Cranwell. This is the Matty McCann investigator.

He's white. He's about six foot in height. He's 43 now. At the time, he was 30. But he could have looked age somewhere between 25 and 32. We know the identity of this male. We have nominated him as a 32. Rydyn ni'n gwybod iddynt fod yn ddyn. Rydyn ni wedi ei nodi fel arwain. Ar gyfer y cyfweliad a'r tîm ymchwil, mae hyn yn datblygiad sylweddol. Rydyn ni wedi bod yn gweithio ar y llinell ymchwiliad hwn ers ddwy blynedd.

Roedd ganddo gysylltiad i ddwy ffeithiau. Beth sy'n sylweddol am y ddwy ffeithiau? Yn gyntaf, What's significant about the two vehicles, the first one is a camper van, it's a VW T3 Westfalia model, it's an early 80s model and the colour tone, it's quite distinctive, it's quite old and probably described as a bit beaten up but it was a white upper body and a yellow sort of lower body. We know that that vehicle was in the area, certainly the days leading up to it, and the week afterwards. To Jason Ocean's attorney joining us out of New York and New Jersey, Jason, you and I covered the Danielle Van Dam kidnap, rape, and murder case from California. She was taken by the neighbor, David, I believe it was Westerfield, but long story short, he kidnapped and held her in a camper van. And we see over and over and over

that a camper or a van is used in kidnap, rape, and murder of children. That's quite the coincidence, is it not, that he used a camper van at the time she goes missing? What about it, Jason Oceans? Remember that case, Danielle Van Dam? I do. I do. And it's spot on on that because that serves as part of the MO of the sexual assault or rape of the victim. And so, again, I did not mean to blame police per se. I am a fan of good detective work. Somebody's doing clean up now. Yes, ma'am.

But I would say that astute prosecutor that you are, that that develops in. Those are all parts of the piece. And you immediately look to that. Why a camper van, Jason? I think part of it is you've got a home on wheels.

Because they don't have to take the child back to their home or apartment. They don't risk being seen by a landlady or a neighbor or a roommate or a wife. And they have room to move around, to assault and kill the child. And not only that, in a camper or a van, they can secrete the child to the back, and nobody can see the child. It's not like the child's in the front or the back seat. So they can hide the child and move around. That's exactly right.

Get away with the child. They don't have to rape and murder the child at the scene. They've got wheels. They're mobile. I think that's why campers and vans are favorites of child molesters, Jason Oceans. Jump in. Help me out here. No, you are spot on, and that is exactly the reason.

It is a facilitating vehicle, unlike a car. It serves all of those purposes. And that's, again, good policing, looking through that, you know, matching good detective work is no better than right there at the spot and circling those things, Nancy. That's why this wasn't solved early on. And I'm going to circle back to the next vehicle, but we know, correct me if I'm wrong, Dave Mack, because there's so many facts coming up fast and furious. New footage has been captured inside Christian Bruckner's lair where police also discovered a camper van containing a series of swimming outfits, like swimsuits, that they believe belonged to young girls. Is that correct, Dave Mack? Yes, ma'am.

They found a bunch of children's swimwear. I mean, think about it, guys. Help me out. To you, Cloyd Steiger, say a woman goes and drives her husband's car one day for whatever reason, and she finds a bunch of little girl swimsuits in there that have been used. Isn't that a red bell of alarm? Yeah, it sure is. You know, I had a case very similar with a collection of underwear like this years ago.

And that's, you know, you should have set off your alarm a lot. And one thing I want to... Okay, wait, wait, wait. I can't understand you. Did you say you had a case where somebody collected underwear yeah well we suspected it was a murder involved with a child um that the person died and we never found enough to to charge but um i want to think back to something dr bober said about the parents reaction and he's exactly right there's nothing worse than to have their child and lose a child although

if there is one thing it's to have a child that disappears and nobody knows what happened i've looked into the dead eyes of mothers of long-term missing and that is a cruel cruel thing to have to live through horrible and it goes it's gone on and on and on first of all everybody blamed the parents did they kill their own child? It's their fault, everyone said, because they were having dinner and left the children alone, even though they checked on them every 20 minutes. It went on and on. They were crucified in the media. But I mean, the reality is so often, wrong or right, Joe Scott Morgan, when a child goes missing or is dead, very often it is the parents. So the media was wrong, but I understand why the media focused on them.

Do you? Yeah, I do. You know, because many times it leads back, I think, back to Susan Smith, you know, of course, and, you know, what she had done. You begin to, and from a policy from from yeah top mom you begin to think about just from an investigative standpoint relative to these cases it's going to be the intimates it's going to be those individuals that have the biggest i don't know how to frame it relative to uh most hatred toward a person to want to destroy them. Well, the most connectivity for whatever reason.

They're around them more. They've got more opportunity. You know, we were talking. And so what happened to the McCanns was horrible. The family being blamed, the parents. But the reality is, a vast majority of the time, the parents are involved. That does not lessen the pain that was caused to the McCanns, however. Statistics don't matter because that's not what happened in this case.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We are talking about the big break. And three-year-old Maddie McCann's disappearance, family on vacation. The mom and dad go to dinner about 180 feet, not yards, 180 feet away with some other friends that were there. They go back. One of them goes back and forth every 20 minutes to check on the children, make sure they're okay. On the last check, Maddie's gone. At first, they couldn't believe it. They tore the hotel room apart looking for her. She's gone in the 20

minutes since they last checked. They have endured so much hatred and accusations since Maddie went missing, but now a major break in the case. A guy that should have been picked up on day one, Christian Bruckner, with a rap sheet including sex molestation on a child, raping a 72-year-old woman in the same area as the resort where the McCanns were staying, and burglary, breaking into hotel rooms. Now, we mentioned the van that this guy had, Christian Bruckner. He would have been 30 at the time Maddie went missing, but he had a second vehicle. Take a listen again to the Maddie McCann investigator speaking to the Sun News, Mark Cranwell. This is a Jaguar. It's been described as dark in color. It's an XJR6. It was registered in

93. And we want to know, does anybody remember that vehicle? It's not particularly uncommon, not particularly unique, but somebody wouldfio car Jaguar yn y ardal honno. A ydych chi'n gweld gyrff Gwladol yn defnyddio'r car honno? A allwch chi gofio'r car? A allwch chi cofio lle wnaethoch chi ei weld? Yn fwyaf ddiddorol yw ei fod wedi cyfieithu'r car yn 4 Medi. Mae hyn yn ddiwrnod diwethaf. Mae'r diwrnod yma yn ddiwrnod diwethaf. Mae'n ddiwrnod diwethaf. Mae'n ddiwrnod diwethaf. Mae'n ddiwrnod diwethaf. Mae'n ddiwrnod diwethaf. Mae'n ddiwrnod diwethaf. Mae'n ddiwrnod diwethaf.

Mae'n ddiwrnod diwethaf. Mae'n ddiwrnod diwethaf. Mae'n ddiwrnod diwethaf. Mae'n ddiwrnod diwethaf. Mae'n ddiwrnod diwethaf. Mae'n ddiwrnod diwethaf. Mae'n ddiwrnod diwethaf. Mae'n ddiwr was finished at 8.02 p.m. He received a phone call for 30 minutes and we know that that phone was in the area of PDL. Well, that's all well and good now, but now you're asking people if they remember a Jaguar how many years ago?

They're a day late and a dollar short. That's all I can say about their police. Now, take a listen to what we learned about a forensics search on Christian Bruckner's camper. Listen, this is Sky News. Forensic examination of the suspect's camper van is thought to have found no trace of Madeline's DNA and none in his Jaguar car, which was also seized. We hope that some British tourists can help us to find the murderer of Madeleine McCann. Like their Scotland Yard colleagues, German prosecutors have received hundreds of calls after last week's appeals for help.

We think the suspect has committed more crimes, possibly against British people and Irish and Americans. We think there are more victims of sexual crimes. The suspect is in jail in Germany. He, too, is awaiting developments in the case. Detectives haven't yet questioned him about Madeleine. You know, I'm so burned up about this. All this time has passed and they're now asking tourists what they remember.

They still haven't questioned the guy. What is wrong with them? You know, I want to go out to you. Dave Mack, we just heard the investigator talking about a phone call that took place around 7.30 p.m. And what's so significant, he said in the area, but it was not just in the area. It was near the McCann Hotel apartment room, wasn't it? Yes, ma'am.

It was right there, mere feet away from where Madeline McCann was sleeping. Another thing, Dave Mack, that has me very concerned, there are reports that a hotel staff member tipped Bruckner off. What do you know about that? Well, police knew because Bruckner had already had been robbing this particular resort over time. As a matter of fact, he was convicted of robbing that place before and spent time in jail over it. So when police found out that he had this 30-minute

long phone conversation, they tried to figure out who it came from. So they ended up running an ad and putting it out in the public saying, who has this number? And it came back to an employee at the resort. That's how they tied it together from Bruckner getting a call from a resort employee, ostensibly tipping him off as to which apartments were unlocked. So let me understand. You're telling me that police tracked the phone number that called Bruckner that night that Maddie goes missing. The phone call was at 7.32 p.m. the night she goes missing. It lasted 30 minutes until 8.02, the call was made by a hotel worker, we now believe, who told Bruckner the apartment would be unlocked. Police released that phone number to the public in order to identify the person to whom it belonged. Bruckner got tips on unlocked apartments so he could steal from tourists. So let me understand this to you,

Dr. Daniel Bober, the fact that somebody within the hotel is involved should have made this an open and shut case. That person should have come forward and stated, I know somebody was robbing apartments. That night, Maddie goes missing. Why didn't they? The good question, Nancy, doesn't really make any sense. I mean, the more you hear about this case, it seems like there's a roadmap to this guy. So it's baffling. You know, very often I have said, I don't know if you agree with this or not, Joseph Scott Morgan, that burglars and peeping toms and sex offenders are the three criminals that have to repeat offend. They can't stop themselves.

There's something about burglars. They get a thrill out of going in somebody else's place and looking around and taking things. It's very voyeuristic, as is peeping Tom, as is sex offenses in certain ways. What do you make of that? Yeah, there's not too many degrees of separation between the three. And it is secretive. You know, people get burglary and robbery confused all the time. Burglary is something where you enter a dwelling and there's no one there. You don't expect to go in and like force someone to give you money. You go in and you steal. You get into intimate spaces where people exist and you're going to take

jewelry. It's a perfect cover for somebody that is a sexual predator though. They can go in and you know they might steal a few things relative to valuables to sell them somewhere else. But when you can get access to, God, I hate to say this, to the dirty laundry, for instance, in a home, and you can live out these fantasies, particularly in people's bedrooms or bathrooms and all this sort of stuff, it's a perfect recipe for something horrible to occur. And that's what's happened. Back to this attendant. This is very scary to me and very disturbing because he's got other people involved in this. I doubt, like with most of these people, people think, well, this is the first time he's done

this. That's a load of crap. No, it's not. I suspect that there are probably other people that helped him facilitate these so-called burglaries all over Europe. And there's probably a network of these people that knew that he was into burglary and they were getting a kickback for it. And so now you've got dead children that are involved in this. And I hate to say that she's dead, but that's just my opinion. And there's people whose lives have been destroyed. So it is very, very disturbing. Guys, we are hearing that there is a disagreement between the German police and the British police. Take a listen now to host David Koch with Mike Neville, former police inspector.

Listen. British investigators are still treating this as a missing persons case. What sort of evidence do you think German prosecutors have and why won't they share their alleged proof? Well, it's certainly not fingerprints or DNA because they're saying that doesn't exist. So when they say there is no forensics, do they mean there's no digital forensics,

which could be computers or photographic evidence? Or is it simply a confession as he told a friend or a police officer he's done it as it's been recorded? But I think one of the key things with this case is this phrase concrete evidence. I spoke to my German friend who's a senior detective, And I think it's been lost in translation. In German, it sort of means reasonable grounds to suspect, rather than as in English would mean there's definite, absolute proof. I think it's been lost in translation. So to you, Dave Mack, German prosecutors claim there's evidence indicating Maddie is dead.

But the Brits disagree. Explain. Well, bottom line is, you said it, the German officials say they have concrete evidence, but then they actually updated their comments a few days ago saying, actually, we don't really have any evidence. We just believe this is the case. Meanwhile, the British authorities from Scotland Yard to Operation Grains, which was put together to look into this case, are still considering it a missing persons case. For right now, Christian and Bruckner are behind bars on another offense, but is set to be released. He has not even been questioned about Maddie McCann as of yet.

We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story Story signing off