Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - 4 University of Idaho Students Slaughtered in Off-Campus Home

Episode Date: November 16, 2022

Four University of Idaho friends are found murdered in an off-campus home. Police arrived at the home around noon on Sunday, following a call about an "unresponsive person" and found the bodies inside. Police are releasing few details but say the murders were a targeted attack with an edged weapon. Police assisting in the investigation were reportedly shocked at the amount of blood found at the crime scene. A source told DailyMail that, “there was blood everywhere," with the scene described as “blood oozing through the walls” of the rented home. Blood was also reportedly found on the side of the house and on the back porch. Moscow police say that Ethan Chapin, 20; Madison Mogen, 21; Xana Kernodle, 20; and Kaylee Goncalves, 21, were found dead at the residence. Moscow's mayor described the deaths as a “crime of passion.”   Joining Nancy Grace Today: David Leroy - Attorney at Law (Boise, ID), Former Idaho Attorney General, Former Idaho Lieutenant Governor & Former Prosecutor (Ada County) Facebook.com/BoiseCriminalDefense Dr. Shawn Roberson, Ph.D. - Licensed Psychologist (Edmond, OK), Forensic psychologist for over 20 years Taylor West - Captain, Division Commander, Investigations, Davis County Sheriff's Office (Farmington, UT); Former Lieutenant, Detective Division, Salt Lake City Police Department; Instructor: Utah POST Academy; Expert Witness Dr. Michelle DuPre - Former Forensic Pathologist, Medical Examiner and Detective: Lexington County Sheriff's Department, Author: "Homicide Investigation Field Guide" & "Investigating Child Abuse Field Guide", Forensic Consultant,  Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan" Ava Wainhouse - Reporter/Weather Forecaster, KHQ Local News (Spokane, WA), Twitter: @KHQAvaWainhouse See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. In the last hours, stunning and tragic news from University of Idaho. Four young college students murdered. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. We don't know much right now, but what we do know, four young students, two age 20, two age 21, in an off-campus home, a home where five girls lived together, a three-story home, six bedrooms, three baths. Early Sunday morning, we believe, four students slaughtered. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111.

First of all, take a listen to this. This hour, we are tracking breaking news. Just a moment ago, Moscow police confirmed four people were found dead in a home just steps away from the University of Idaho campus. Right now, we're continuing to work to get more details tonight. We know that students were ordered to shelter in place for a time this afternoon because of the scene's proximity to campus neighbors say they began noticing police cars flood the area around 12 p.m today moscow police say they responded to a call here on king road for an unconscious individual upon further investigation officials found four

people dead while police investigated the scene the the University of Idaho enacted a shelter-in-place alert as university officials reported a homicide near campus. Neighbors say most people living in this area are a part of U of I Greek life or are students, but we do not know the identities of those involved or who lives at the residence. Officials are investigating. You're hearing our friends at KREM with me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now but first straight out to special guest ava wayne house reporter khq local news ava thank you for being with us how were the four students found news came in that the police are responding to a call of someone found unconscious.

That's the call that originally came in and then they responded and then they found the four additional bodies, the four bodies of these students inside the home. It was originally a call not pertaining to four dead bodies, but that's what they found when they entered the home. It was originally a call not pertaining to four dead bodies, but that's what they found when they entered the home. It was shocking news to hear, especially coming from just the most quiet town. Joining me is David Leroy, attorney at law, joining us from Idaho, former attorney general in Idaho, former lieutenant governor, former prosecutor. You can find him at D Leroy dot com. David, thank you so much for being with us.

This is your neck of the woods question to you. I'm trying to determine for sure how the bodies were found. It's my understanding that about noon on November 13, that is a Sunday, noon on Sunday, noon-ish, that a friend of one of the girls went to the home and found all four dead bodies. Is that how they were found? There's no publicly released detail on the translation of a police report of an unconscious person and the discovery of the four bodies. But obviously, somebody determined if the unconscious person was one of those

bodies from merely opening the door that something was wrong and reported extremely promptly. There's no publicly released details on that first discovery other than unconscious person observed. Joining me also in addition to Ava Wainhouse and David Leroy is Captain Taylor West. Captain West, Division Commander, Investigations, Davis County Sheriff's Office in Formington. Captain West, thank you for being with us. You know, it's very important in every criminal investigation who finds the body. In this case, four bodies of college students. Four dead college students.

It's very important to determine who calls it in, who finds them, who reports it. It's my understanding a friend of one of the four deceased comes to the home, finds the people there. At first, possibly thinking someone was unconscious. Maybe one of them still was. Well, they're dead now. That's interesting. Have you ever noticed, Captain West, so often we find a wife dead? It's the husband that finds the body? Yes. Very often we look at the person who finds the body or the person who responds to the scene. It should be noted the fact that the call came in as an unconscious person, though that's probably just a classification issue with the dispatch center.

Anytime we have a body or someone unconscious, they all come in the same as a man or woman down. So they probably just coded it that way and said they were unconscious. That doesn't mean necessarily that the victim was still alive but unconscious when they arrived. To answer your question more specifically, Nancy, yes. Seems like oftentimes the person who discovers the body or the person who makes that phone call,

we don't know in this case if that phone call was made from the scene or if it was made away from the scene, but yes, that would be a person of interest in my mind for sure. I mean, for instance, to Dr. Michelle Dupree, forensic pathologist, medical examiner, detective, author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide, Dr. Dupree, you're right there

on the scene practically of the Alex Murdoch double murder. Who called in the dead bodies? Alex Murdoch. And now he's charged with murder. Do you see my drift here? I certainly do. And as we said before, you know, that is always one of our first people that we look at as a person of interest is either the spouse or significant other and or the

person who finds the body or calls it in. Well, unlike many statistics may indicate, there seemingly is no connection to the person that comes to the home and finds the dead bodies. Joe Scott Morgan, joining me, Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet and star of a brand new hit series, Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, in this case, I really don't see any connection with the person that called it in. I really do believe at this juncture anyway, they just went to the home and make this gruesome discovery. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, you think about it, this person probably occupies the same space with them was familiar with the location and was familiar enough to

walk through the door maybe they checked it initially to see if it was unlocked they didn't they couldn't get anybody to come to the door and in the world that we live in now nancy uh if they're calling uh certainly with four deceased individuals, you're not going to get a response from a phone call. So, you know, was the door actually left unlocked at the scene when somebody exited? Yeah, it really does, Nancy. The door being unlocked at the scene, which we believe that it was. But there's so much forensic evidence here, guys. Take a listen to our friend Whitney Ward, KREM.

Breaking news out of Moscow, Idaho. The bodies of four University of Idaho students discovered in a house just steps away from campus. Those students were discovered just yesterday afternoon in a neighborhood near Greek Row on campus. Earlier today, the university released the identities of the victims found in that house. 20-year-old Ethan Chapin from Conway, Washington, 21-year-old Madison Mogan from Coeur d'Alene, 20-year-old Zanna Zerdodal from Post Falls, and 21-year-old Kaylee Gonzalez from Rathdrum, Idaho.

Now, names are attached to that initial report of four dead college students. Just think about it. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. To Dr. Sean Roberson joining us, psychologist out of Edmond. You can find him at drseanroberson.com. Dr. Roberson, my twins, John, David, and Lucy, have just started the ninth grade. But for over a year, they've been talking about where they want to go to college,

what university or college they're interested in, what they want to study they want to be and we're planning for it I mean when they were first born Dr. Robertson I started a fund a college fund when they were born planning and hoping and praying that one day they would go on to college and beyond. And just thinking about these four people, these four young people's family, and I'm thinking about that photo of them, Dr. Robertson, that was taken just a couple of hours before they were all savagely murdered. I mean, Dr. Robertson, I've looked at the exterior of the home, and from one angle, you can actually see blood pouring down from a crack in the foundation. Blood is pouring. I haven't seen that since I prosecuted a triple homicide out on a playground one Sunday night, and there was

blood running down the gutter like water. So you work your whole life, it feels like, to get your children to this point, and these parents had done it. They could check the box. We got them through preschool. We got them the box. We got them through preschool. We got them through elementary. We got them through middle. We got them through high school and all the ups and the downs and the highs and the lows,

the victories, the defeats and then they make it and now this is just to me overwhelming what these parents must be going through, Dr. Robertson. Well, you certainly expect that your children will be safe at college, especially in a smaller town. Colleges are generally safe communities, and that's a pretty large number of victims to be killed all in one place. Most crime victims, most murder victims

are more often than not going to be people who are involved in crime themselves. They're not going to be college students. So something like that would certainly come as quite a shock and it's pretty unusual. Well, Nancy, one thing that makes this all the more shocking and all the more traumatic for both parents and students is that the University of Idaho is a beautiful, classic red brick campus spread over rolling hills in an agricultural area. It's got traditions dating back to 1889. It's a medium sized campus, about 12,000 students in a very small town, 26,000 people. And that ratio of students and residents makes it a very close-knit community where everybody does feel safe. And that's one of the reasons you go to this very protected area for a college education. Who am I hearing, David Leroy or Captain West? It's Dave Leroy, ma'am. You know,

David, I was just thinking when you were talking, where did you go to law school, David? I went to the law school at the University of Idaho about a quarter of a mile from where this incident happened. And Nancy, shockingly, I was actually in that building, that residence, about four years ago when I was engaged in a political campaign and on campus for homecoming events. And one of my clients had a child who was in that building as a resident renting the place for two years. He and I went over there and said hello for about an hour to the four students living there. Wow. Okay. I'm just drinking in everything you're saying. It's reminding me, well, first of all, I was thinking of the two places I went to law school. One was Mercer University in Macon, which I loved.

The other was NYU, New York University, obviously in New York for an LLM degree. I approached my life at Mercer very differently than I did at NYU because Mercer is in the middle of Macon, Georgia and surrounding Macon, which has a hefty population now is rural. And there is a feeling of safety and security and a low crime rate as opposed to NYU. I mean, taking the subway to class, you know, I was always looking over my shoulder. You're right. This is almost an idyllic, a bucolic setting. Now, I'm very intrigued by the fact, and everybody on this panel, jump in. David Leroy, attorney at a Boise high-profile lawyer, former Idaho Attorney General, former Lieutenant Governor, former prosecutor, it goes on and on, has been in this home, in the murder scene. I'm curious, and Ava Whitehouse, please jump in if I'm wrong on any of these facts. I think the young man, Ethan, was found on the second floor, which, but the fact that they told us that

makes me think the girls were somewhere else, possibly on the third floor. This is a three-story home to my understanding. What's on the second floor, David? Well, it's been remodeled since I was there. I believe it was a four-bedroom residence when I was there. It's been changed to now reportedly a six-bedroom residence. But after an entry in the front area and perhaps one bedroom on the lower floors, it's all bedrooms upstairs along with the appropriate 10-related bath.

You know, another thing, Jessica Morgan, I keep thinking about how four people were overpowered by one person what more do we know take a listen to nicole hernandez krm it was the city of moscow idaho that sent us this information just a few minutes ago they said that they suspect that this homicide was done uh these students died by quote an edged weapon such as a knife. And they say they did not actually find a weapon at the scene. They also have not arrested any suspects yet, and they are ruling the investigation a homicide. As of this morning, the crime scene tape is still up around the house. We saw one officer there this morning as well, and a memorial has grown overnight for those four students. This though has left

students in the area afraid. A lot of people left last night and then we were like I know we were like the only like one of the only ones who like actually stayed here last night. Mass exodus at the university there people leaving out of fear. Guys this takes place in Moscow, Idaho, there at the university. Joe Scott, are you hearing what I'm hearing? I think you are. Four people overpowered around 2 to 3 a.m. in the morning with an edged weapon, that means a knife, in my mind, a serrated knife. How did he, obviously, this is a male attacker, to be able to overcome four other people asleep? Were they asleep? Were they in a supine position lying in beds? And Ethan was there staying with a girlfriend that night. Why is he on the second floor and she apparently somewhere else? Did they run? Were they sleeping separately? Ethan did not live there. Isn't that right, Jackie?

The girls lived there. The three girls lived there along with two other girls. Ethan was just visiting the girlfriend. So, what springs to mind, Joe Scott Morgan? I mean, this is a mass stabbing. There's got to be fingerprints, DNA, fibers off the defendant, off the suspect. Agree, disagree?

Disagree. This is going to be, I'm sorry, agree. This is going to be an evidence-rich environment. I was ready to light into you like nobody's business. Darn. I think I need some more hot tea on that. I was all happy. Go ahead. And to David's point, which I think is quite interesting, when you begin to think about the layout of this place, if it is the size that it is, it's not necessarily size.

It's kind of the construction of it. If it's a multi-story dwelling, you know, one of the first things that comes to mind nancy for me is thinking was somebody laying in wait and was able to prey on these victims individually or maybe two at a time because when i think about a mass stabbing that's something that generally is very chaotic uh you hear about this mass mass attacks with a knife and that sort of thing. People run scurrying, screaming, that sort of thing. But, you know, to the best of my knowledge, there's nobody that's necessarily alerting in this event. Can you please speak normally? You mean when you say alerting, do you mean screaming?

Yeah, well, look, I mean, we've all lived. Say it, man. We've all lived, if we've attended, you know, in an undergraduate circumstance, or maybe you've lived in an apartment complex, you know proximity. Walls are not necessarily thick in these things. And you really wonder, did anyone hear any screaming during the night? Did anyone hear any ruckus, furniture being broken? We don't know about the nature of the scene. And here's one other thing that we don't know yet is the distribution of the remains. Where were they? Were they all grouped together? You said that this young man was up on the top floor. Second floor, second floor. Okay. Well, he was on an upper floor away from the girls. And I'm

wondering, well, what position were they in at that moment in time? Was this individual able to take them unawares? You just said everything that I said, except you said it a little bit better. You know, my son has a student in his class like you. The teacher will say something, and then he goes, well, I think, and he'll restate it, and he'll look very thoughtful as he's doing it. Sounds like a bright young man. So we know Ethan. We think Ava.

Jump in. Ava Wainhouse joining me. KHQ Local. We hear, we understand Ethan on the second floor, and that suggests to me that the girls were on the third floor. Do you know anything, Ava, about that? I just want to say that this is confusing for the community and for these students. I was staying at the home in the neighborhood. We had friends who have a home base there, and we were editing and doing our jobs while

these students are surrounding us, and they're just saying, I'm hearing so many mixed reviews, mixed information, misinformation, rumors, and this community, these families deserve to know what really happened okay whoa whoa whoa wait Ava Wainhouse what do you mean you're hearing mixed information I'm saying students were just when everything originally happened the lack of confirmation you know from I mean at first it was rumors of murder suicide that was ruled out. Things like that, when you live in a small college town, it hurts to not know exactly. And even 48 hours later, when we were still on scene, students were feeling like they wanted more from local authorities and especially wanted more for the families of the victims.

You know, very interesting. You brought up the specter of murder-suicide. I don't see it. I don't see one of these four killing the other three and then themselves just a couple of hours before the murders go down. All four are pictured in a happy-go-lucky photo. One girl is on another girl's shoulders. They're all smiling together. Two of them were dating.

I believe it was Ethan Chapin and Zanna Cronodal, the two of them dating. Two of the girls grew up together, had been best friends since sixth grade. Two of the girls were in the same sorority. Two of the girls, not the same sorority. Two of the girls, not necessarily the same two, worked at the Mad Greek restaurant. They're all very close. Murder-suicide is just not fitting together evidence-wise to me. I want you to take a listen now to our friends at GMA. A tight-knit community in northern Idaho reeling after four University of Idaho students were found dead in an apartment across the street from campus.

I think it's shocking for everybody. Police are calling it a homicide. Authorities say the initial call for an unconscious person came in just before noon Sunday. But Mayor Art Betke telling ABC News the crime happened hours before. Given what the nature of the scene was, they've indicated that it was three or four in the morning when things happened. Once officers arrived, they found a horrifying scene. Three women and one man, all members of the Greek community on campus, were dead. The foursome seen here in this photo posted by Kaylee Goncavs just hours before their deaths. There isn't a person on campus who isn't affected by this. I mean, these are like really adored and loved people on our campus.

Freshman Ethan Chapman's brother telling ABC News in a statement, we are triplets and it's hard to imagine life without him. Dr. Michelle Dupree is joining us. Forensic pathologist, medical examiner, detective, author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide, Dr. Dupree, stabbing. They're saying a sharp-edged implement. Well, obviously, it's a knife. I'm wondering, is it serrated? Did the knife come from that location or was it brought to that location. The likelihood of a suicide by stabbing is extremely low statistically. I'd like you to weigh in on that.

And also regarding the edge of the knife. It's very difficult but is possible in very few scenarios to match a particular knife to a wound. Why? Because flesh is static. It's moving and therefore you can't get a good pattern because the flesh itself is moving. It's not like getting a plastic mold of a knife. So that's going to be difficult. However, we do know that police are scouring the area, including trash, because we also know, and Dr. Robertson can jump in on this, that it's human instinct to throw away their murder weapon immediately. It goes all the way back to Cain and Abel. He kills Abel and tosses the weapon, tries to get rid of it. That's how old that instinct is. So right now, Dr. Dupree, police scouring trash cans, roadways, behind walls,

gates, looking for the knife. I'm hoping if and when they find the knife that it is a wooden handled knife. Why? Because it's easier to get DNA off of a porous surface such as wood as opposed to metal or plastic. How likely do you believe is it that there are prints, fiber, or DNA left behind, Dr. Dupree? And we are seeing the emergence of a timeline right now. The murder is now being placed between 3 and 4 a.m.

And if you listen carefully to that last bit of news, they refer to the homicides. They did not refer to suicide homicide. Exactly, Nancy. And I've actually only had one case where there was a suicide by a shark edge instrument. What was that, cutting of the wrist? No, it was not. He stabbed himself in the heart when he was about to be apprehended.

So I'm excluding suicide by wrist cutting. I'm talking suicide by stabbing. It's just highly unlikely. I don't see it here. So how can you tell the timeline? Now, I know there's extrinsic evidence, evidence not relating to the bodies or the autopsies that suggest the murders occurred between 3 and 4 a.m. That most likely is a Twitch picture or video that has emerged just a couple of hours before the murders, where at least two of the victims are at a food cart getting food.

They're alive and happy. So, you know, between cell phone data, texts, we know one of the girls texted mom every single day, at least talked to her every day. Extrinsic evidence may give us a timeline. But looking at the bodies alone, Dr. Dupree, how do we set the timeline as the murders occur between 3 and 4 a.m.? Well, Nancy, we can look at several things. We look at scene markers. We look at things like how dry is the blood? Where

is the blood? What are the patterns, the blood spatter patterns? We look at all that types of information. And going back to the knife that you mentioned, absolutely. I believe that if and when the knife is found, there will be trace evidence on that. There should be hairs, fibers, certainly, hopefully blood. Usually when there are homicides by sharp force instruments, the perpetrator will actually cut themselves, especially when they are stabbing someone. It's not uncommon for them to cut their hand as well. So that may even have that person's DNA on the knife when found. Right. When you're holding a knife, you're holding it like this. And when you make contact with the body of the victim, your hand slides down past the hilt and you slice your own hand. That happens a lot more than we know.

Hence, the discovery of the defendant's DNA on the murder weapon. Dr. Sean Robertson joining us out of Edmond. Dr. Robertson, why is it that something to do with instinct, I guess, that the killer always wants to immediately get rid of the murder weapon? Well, certainly you want to eliminate any trace back to yourself. You know, I've had many, many cases where knives were used as the weapons. You know, sometimes they're buried or hidden. I had one case where an individual threw it into a retention pond at the front of a neighborhood.

Actually, that was how they ended up getting caught is that they had told somebody where the knife was and they drained the pond. Idiot. And they were able to match a piece of the knife that had broken in the victim back to the knife that they found. So certainly you want to distance yourself from the murder weapon as quickly as possible. You know, another thing out to Captain Taylor West, special guest joining us, Captain in Davis County Sheriff's Office in Farmington. Captain West, when you're talking about a stabbing, I find very often, at least in the U.S.,

not necessarily in Britain where they don't have as much access to guns, but in the U.S., very often that the nature of a stabbing indicates that you know your victim. It's much more up close and personal. What do you think about that, Captain? I believe that to be true. I think stabbings are much more intimate of a crime.

It's also very interesting to me in this case that these are four adults. Now, granted, the girls are petite in nature, judging by their pictures, but for a single person to overtake four adults with a knife, that's some extraordinary resolve to commit that crime. And I wouldn't be surprised in this case if the victims were first either herded into a room or even bound and then murdered, which would really lead to the intimacy of that crime.

If someone could find four people or contain them into a room and then still take the effort to commit a homicide against each of them individually, it's something that I haven't encountered in my career, a quadruple stabbing homicide. David Leroy, jump in. Well, this is an amazing situation. I'm intrigued by the fact that this is reported to be a six-bedroom rental home now. We know that at least three of these people live there. Was there some other resident that was involved here? And did that give both some opportunity for access, obtaining a weapon on site,

some intimate knowledge of the neighborhood? It intrigues me, and I'm not buying into the people who are critical of the police for saying there's no general threat to the public. I think these fact patterns suggest that this is something very intimate and emotional, and perhaps even with another resident. Well, okay, let's analyze that, David Leroy.

Okay, there's five girls living there. Five girls. These three girls live there. Ethan did not live there. He was there staying over with his girlfriend. That means there were two other girls that live there. Therefore, I do not believe it's someone else that lives in the home. I don't think they're the perp because I don't think a woman did this for obvious reasons. A, statistically never happens. And B, this is highly, highly aggressive and takes a lot of power to overcome for people unless they're sleeping. Unless they're sleeping. I'm wondering if that's what happened. crime stories with nancy grace to ava wayne house joining us in khq uh i understood that some of the neighbors heard a ruckus before the murders is that true i have not been told that if that is

true okay so you don't know the answer to that do you know if there are any suggestions there was a robbery or a sex attack i do not know okay that's all i needed to know do you know anything about the possibility that there was a forced entry into the home did somebody break into the home a broken window a jimmied window anything like that that? We do not know. It's just a huge, a huge lack of transparency. Yes, you're right. But to you, Captain Taylor West, some people may call it a lack of transparency and they're right. But having prosecuted literally thousands of cases in inner city Atlanta, there's a reason you don't give the media every single detail. A lot of reasons. Absolutely.

There's, as you know, the prosecutor's prosecutorial reasons. There's holdback information that we like to keep back to help solidify a case upon the confession later on. There's information that the public doesn't need to know in regard to intimate details of the case. There's always information that we don't want to share that could jeopardize that prosecution in any way. I do agree a little bit that the police department in Moscow, in conjunction with the administrative office, the mayor, it seems like they're sending mixed messages looking at some of the press releases or that they're not communicating well. And it would probably be good for them to get on the same page in regard to the message they're releasing to at least calm some of those fears. I don't know the mayor, Captain, but he needs to shut his pie hole pronto because...

You just did the opposite of what you said the kid in your son's class does. Yeah, you're right. I did. But I said the mayor. Did he say the mayor before you said the kid in your son's class does yeah yeah you're right i did but i said the mayor did he say the mayor before i said the mayor okay yeah okay you win you're right i think what's probably most disturbing to the public is the fact that they have stated that there's no risk to the public but yet they've never announced if the suspect is in custody if the suspect is already dead i mean obviously if they don't know who did this, then there is a risk to the public if the person is not in custody or not already dead. Is this David Leroy or Captain West? This is Dr. Robertson.

Dr. Robertson, you're right. And that is getting a lot of people upset. You got four dead bodies of innocent co-eds, and they're saying there's not a risk. I'm telling you Dr. Robertson people the students are leaving. There's a mass exodus right now. Do you blame them? Because I lived in a house much like this as a matter of fact I think that it would have been like a 12 bedroom structure and it was divided into four big, long apartments with multiple roommates. I can tell you this much. If someone had been stabbed in that off-campus community, I would have left. There's no way my parents would have let me stay there.

You're right, doctor. Well, all of their statements seem to suggest that the likely perpetrator knew them. They say it was isolated. They described it as targeted. They say it was isolated. They described it as targeted. They said it was a crime of passion. All of these would suggest that they know who did it and that the person probably knew the victims, which is usually the case.

Perpetrators usually know their victims. So that just begs the question of why are they not releasing the name of who it is if there's no risk to the public is that ava jumping in yeah i'm sorry this is like the main thing that i wanted to touch base on because this is like i've been in moscow since monday we've had a cruise here since sunday i'm in the hotel right now going back out today and no matter who i talk to this is the main concern so just the mixed messages from local authorities when the mayor saying the crime of passion later retracting that statement and then the police saying they can't they're not going to be

releasing any information right now the The details, it's preliminary. The investigation is ongoing. That's understandable. But when the community hears the mayor originally say, he says this is a crime of passion, and then the alert saying that they don't believe that there's a threat to the public currently, the community is feeling just overwhelmed with the fact that they don't know who to believe.

They don't know how to respond to this because two people, two entities, more than that, are saying things that contradict one another. Guys, take a listen to our cut 15, our friends at crimeonline.com. Ethan Chapin's mother, Sarah, tells a reporter for the Statesman that a friend discovered the bodies and called 911. Police arrived just before noon on Sunday. Authorities say, though, students died between 3 and 4 a.m. In an interview with the New York Times, Moscow's mayor described the killings as a crime of passion. And the county coroner, Kathy Mabot, says there was a lot of blood at the scene. Autopsies have not yet been completed, but Mabot says the cause likely will be stabbings. The

coroner added that once the toxicology reports come back, she does not think it will be relevant to the manner or cause of death stacy chapman says in a facebook message to the statesman that police told her the students were stabbed she also says drugs were not involved so far no weapon has been found but police did release the fact that quote based on preliminary information investigators believed that an edged weapon such as a knife was used. You are hearing information that is coming from the victim's family and the coroner. The victims, Ethan Chapin, age 20, Madison Mogan, age 21, Ethan's girlfriend, Zanna Cronodal, age 20, and Kaylee Gunkalves, age 21, all close friends.

Joe Scott, we are now hearing drugs were not involved, apparently no sign of a forced entry. What do you make of it? This idea of the impassioned event is certainly on my radar at this point in time because this is such, you know, as previously has been stated, this is such an up-close, has been stated, this is such an up close, brutal manner and well, cause of death if we're talking about edged weapon. So that means that somebody has to be fully committed to this in order to engage with an individual like this. And one other little aside here I'd like to mention, this is we kind of had something atypicalpical happen in a case like this, Nancy. When you begin to

think about the officials, it is not typical of a county coroner to release a statement. And it wasn't just a statement. She actually gave an interview prior to the police actually giving an interview in this case. So it seems like there may be a bit of confusion on the ground. And, you know, this is not a huge town. They're not used to handling cases like that. So I don't know if all of the machinery, for lack of a better term, is fully integrated here. Maybe, you know, the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing at this time. Let me say a word in defense of the local officials. They have generally been on the same page. They have now told us that they are investigating timelines. are not going to be able to hide the kind of anger and passion that would be within a single

perpetrator to cause this event from all of those other students who live in close proximity and go to class, attend the restaurant. This will be moving swiftly, I believe, and the local officials indeed in a small community are not very well trained in these kinds of disasters, but they have generally done a consistent job and they will have a person of interest announced very soon, in my opinion. I think you're right, Leroy. Guys, take a listen to Our Cut 17, Our Friends at Crime online. Who are these victims? The four victims ranged from a freshman to a senior and were friends. All three women were from the same county. Mogan and Gonsalves graduated together from Lake City High School in 2019,

and they were named to the university's dean list for spring 2021. Curnoodle and Mogan worked together at the Mad Greek restaurant in downtown Moscow. Chapin and Curnoodle were dating, and Chapin was from north of Seattle in Conway, Washington. As police put together a timeline of the 24 hours before the murders, Melissa Hawley tells reporters her daughter Riley, a junior at the university, was at a bar with one of the women earlier in the evening. So the timelines are adding up and police are looking at the movements of the victims leading up to the murders.

Also, take a listen to our cuts. Eight and nine are friends at GMA. There's been no named suspect. But as this investigation continues, you believe that the students and residents of the city are safe right now. Right. Especially because given the very focused nature of what went on there, no other apartments nearby were involved. And in the ensuing eight or nine hours between the actuality of the crime and the call into the police, nothing happened. eventual conclusion is going to bear out the fact that this was a one-off crime that was committed and was very focused and doesn't involve other students or the public in general at all.

And the mayor went on to say that he thinks a suspect could be named in the coming days. He also said there in Moscow, the city and the university are incredibly intertwined. He described this crime as horrific, rare, and isolated. If you know or think you know anything about these murders, remember, 208-882-2677. Repeat. 208-882-2677. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.