Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - 5-year-old tot girl shot dead in suburban home. HELP CATCH ITALIA'S KILLER!

Episode Date: August 21, 2020

Little Italia Graham was running to her bedroom to get a toy to show to her family when shots rang out. The 5-year-old is killed, hit in the head by a bullet. Multiple bullets holes are found in the home. Shell casings little the street. Who killed Italia?Joining Nancy Grace Today: Veronica Graham - Mother of Italia Lomelli-Graham  Pastor Thomas Ravenell - Family Pastor  Ashley Willcott - Judge and Trial Attorney, Anchor on Court TV Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Beverly Hills Cloyd Steiger - 36 years with Seattle Police Department, 22-year Homicide Detective, Author of "Seattle's Forgotten Serial Killer: Gary Gene Grant" Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author of "Blood Beneath My Feet" Angela Brown - Investigative Reporter, WCIV/ABC News 4 Charleston, SC  Leigh Egan - Investigative Journalist, CrimeOnline Tipline: Summerville South Carolina Police Dept. [phone] or Crime Stoppers of the Low Country [phone] Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I remember when my children, my twins were five years old, and one of the greatest joys is when I had them at home. I knew they were safe and sound and I was there to protect them. Well, that is what one Somerville, South Carolina mom thought, Veronica Graham. But that wasn't true. Her little girl, beautiful Italia, shot dead in her own home. Why?

Beautiful Italia shot dead in her own home. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. Think about it. As I used to tell my juries, don't turn away because it's distasteful or it hurts your heart or hurts your feelings. It may even make you sick at your stomach. Don't turn away from the truth truth we cannot afford to turn away from what is happening and the truth is look at this little girl have you ever seen anything more innocent

more beautiful than this little girl i'm looking at her right now she's sitting on her sofa. I think her little t-shirt says adore. And she's beautiful in every way. Why does this little innocent five-year-old girl have to die and in her own home? First of all, take a listen to Dave Mack, Crime Online. Five-year-old Italia Lamelli Graham is playing inside her home with her brothers and sisters. It's a Friday night in Somerville, South Carolina. In the Evergreen subdivision, children play outside during the day, and many neighbors talk about Italia riding her bike and how she likes My Little Pony and the superhero Ladybug. She's a bright little girl with a big smile, but now she's playing inside with her brothers and sisters, and it's

just before 10 p.m. when shots ring out in the Evergreen subdivision, not from inside a home, but outside in the street. The noise is loud enough that Somerville police officers hear seven or eight shots as they patrol nearby. As the officers head to where they hear the shots coming from, a call comes out on the radio officers head to where they hear the shots coming from, a call comes out on the radio to head to 100 Langley Drive. Police arrive. They find bullet holes in a window of the home, and they see shell casings on the ground outside in the street.

Let me understand this. Straight to you, Angela Brown, investigative reporter, WCIV, ABC News for Charleston. One quick question so I understand this. Do I understand it correctly, Angela Brown, that the gunshots went through the window of the home and the casings were right outside on the street? Is that correct? Yeah, you have that right. Whoever shot inside of this house fired from outside. They fired these gunshots inside of a home, not knowing who was inside. Maybe they did know, but shot it inside of a home. And of course, this little girl was inside

who was hit. Okay, hold on. I'm just trying to establish something forensically. Angela Brown with me, WC IV ABC News 4 Charleston. Angela, how far were the casings from the window? Well, the casings were across the street from the house. So just imagine normal block on there's their homes on both sides. And the casings were actually found across the street from the home where little italian lived that's where okay to pastor thomas ravenel who is joining us from there in the community pastor i'm going to get to the whole scenario in just a moment but i've got to establish something forensically and that is how far are the casings feet 30 feet 50 feet 100 yards the casings from the window we're not sure honestly you know we get the basic information some of the crime scene information we have not has not been

disclosed to us as of now well do, do you know where the window is? Do you know where the window is? Yes, ma'am. Do you know how far it is to be across the street, directly across the street on the other side of the street? How far is that? It's not that far. It might be 100 yards at the most.

100 yards. Wait a minute. A football field is 300. What's it? 100 yards, right? Football field, 100 yards. Okay. 100 yards is the length of a football field. You know what? I'm going to go to Italia's mom. Ms. Graham, how far from your window were the shell casings? I would say, um, was it a football field? Was it a football field? 30 feet. Thank you. I'm going to circle right back to you. Okay. It took me a while. Forgive me. I'm a JD, not a DDS. Don't know how to pull teeth, but this is what I'm getting at. And now you'll understand why I'm so concerned.

To Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, death investigator, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. You know where I'm going, Joe Scott. Because if this is 30 feet away, this is not some drive-by. This is somebody right there pointing, okay, pointing at that window. So this was not some random drive-by, you know, shooting up in the air. Oh, H-E-L-L, no, it's not. And I know that because of the distance between the shell casings and the window. You explain. Yeah, windows, Nancy, functional word there, not walls. That is, is this a position from which an individual could stand at that

distance and observe into the house? That's what makes me think, and I think some of the law enforcement types, that this is a targeted event. If you're able to look in the window and remember, you know, one of the things is if the interior of your house is illuminated at night, you can't see out of the window, but people can see in. And this is something somebody could come in with stealth and do, and no one would see them out there. They would simply fire from that position across the street through the window. And what they're saying, and I've actually seen images of this, they're showing two, not one, but two bullet holes that pass through that glass. And that's very significant, Nancy,

because at that position, you're wondering who else was in the room? Was there anybody, other principals in that room? It's mind-boggling to me that someone could target a precious little angel like this, you know, an innocent like this. It makes me think, I wonder if there was somebody else there that this individual, this monster, was after. Knowing what Atalia's mother, Veronica Graham, has just told me about the distance of the gunshot shells to the home. This is not

random. Now, the only way it could be random is if someone is shooting through windows for the thrill of it, for the sick thrill of it, for the sick thrill of it. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. This story means a lot to me.

And let me correct myself. This is not a story, a fable. This is not a story, a fable. This is real. This is a beautiful five-year-old little girl. And I remember my little girl at five, I still had her hair like this. She'd still wear bows in her hair. I dressed her up as best as I could. I've got a picture of Atalia right here holding a big teddy bear. My little girl still has her teddy bear as a child on her bed, dressed up in clothes. Here she is with bows in her hair like I do Lucy. Here she is with, it looks like, 20 braids done in her hair and that now i'm looking at a makeshift candlelight memorial because italia was shot i want to go to italia's mother veronica graham miss graham there's no way for you to know this but on the day of the shooting, it was August 6th, correct?

Ms. Graham, that day I woke up in the depths of misery because August 6th is the day that changed my life. My fiance was murdered that day, August the 6th. And every day, every year, August the 6th, just it's like a freight train hit me. And I was all enmeshed in my own thoughts. I, of course, didn't want my twins to know anything was wrong. And then I read about Italia, and I realized how selfish I was because your grief is a million times of mine. I can't imagine what could be worse than losing your child. And I immediately started praying for you.

I didn't even know your name and for Italia about what you're going through. Will you tell me, Ms. Graham, what happened that day? It was my, it was my sister, my little sister's birthday. She was turning 14, so we decided to celebrate the birthday for her. So around like 8.30, the party was over. We was just cleaning up. But earlier that day, Talia, every time it's somebody's birthday, Talia always feel like she needs a gift too. So I took her to the store to get her a little toy to play with. So it was me, her, and my boyfriend.

We were sitting in the living room, and she just was like, do you want to see my toy? And she ran to her room, and then she ran down the hallway. And then as she was running down the hallway, I heard them screaming and just, like, yelling. And I thought, considering the fact that we just had the party and the balloons and everything was I thought she just stepped on the balloon or something so I'm just like what she is she scared everybody what's going on and I turn around and she was just like

standing she was standing up and then I see my boyfriend he's like trying to jump, but he tripped over the table trying to catch her. And then she like turned around and she, then I noticed like she had a gunshot wound to her head. So then she walked to me and she just fell in my arms. And I'm just like screaming and yelling. I'm screaming for help. And I'm just like, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on. And I just keep screaming for help over and over. And then, like, the police arrived.

And then I was waiting on the ambulance to come. And finally the ambulance arrived. And then they put her inside the ambulance. But I wasn't able to drive with her in the ambulance. So I ended up going with the police officer. And they were driving me there, taking me there. When I was walking inside the hospital, the way the officer was squeezing my hand and kept holding me,

and I had like blood everywhere I had blood all over my dress all in my hand all down to my feet my feet was still like and he just was like squeezing me and just like and then I was like where is she like let me go see her like she need to hear my voice like she need to hear my voice because if she hear me, she know like I'm here. And he just like kept squeezing me and I was just like, where is she? Where is she? And he was just like, just go. He was like, just go. You can go sit in the waiting room. And I was like, I don't want to sit in the waiting room. I want to see her. And then they put me in his room. But then they told me, they was like they was like well you know she's gone and i just

was like no like not my baby like no like we was already we already had plans like i played she loved chocolate milk and i put chocolate milk in the cooler bar just before and i'm just like because when you wake up you know you have nice cold chocolate milk, and it's still sitting in the refrigerator. You know, I'm just like, I don't know why. It's just me and my kids. It's just a woman and kids in the house. I don't know why it would be targeted at all. Ms. Graham.

Yes, ma'am. Yes. Guys, joining me is Italia's mother, Veronica Graham. And she has just told you about what happened the evening Atalia was shot in her own home, in the hallway of their home. You know, to you, Dr. Bethany Marshall, I don't know if you remember when my dad passed away a couple of years ago, and we had a thing. He was trying to talk him and my mom into living with us, and they'd spend a lot of time up here, and every night after dinner, I'd ask my dad,

can I make you a decaf? And he'd go, oh, no, don't worry. But I'd, of course, go make him one anyway. And I remember at the hospital, when he was about to pass away, I was whispering in his ear, everybody else was saying, you can go, you can go ahead. And I was literally in his ear going, no, Daddy, don't. Do not leave me here. Come on, let's go home.

And I'll make you a cup of decaf. And when she's talking about that chocolate milk, that's what it makes me think of. What is it is our minds just can't take in what's happening and we want to go back to what's normal to us? And Nancy, you know, I remember your book signing. Yeah. And your dad fainted. Do you remember that? Oh, gosh.

Yes. I have never, I feel like crying right now. I have never heard someone scream like you screamed. I heard you scream, Daddy. And I was like, what the heck? And I turned around and your dad had collapsed. It was that same, you know, emotion that Italia's mom is talking about and the boyfriend when he ran down the hallway. I think our minds are not prepared for that kind of loss. I mean, she had been with Italia for five years. She just said Italia needed to hear her voice. The mother-infant tie is so strong that to accept that that tie has been broken, snapped, that the attachment has been pierced in some way. It's unfathomable. You can't accept it

in a moment. She's going to be working on this for years. I've said so many times on your show, grieving is disillusionment. When you grieve, you dispossess yourself or dismantle the illusion that your life will go forward with this one person. But in this moment, it was still going forward. She was putting the chocolate milk in the refrigerator, and it's going to be a long, slow process for her. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, you've got to help us find the person and figure out what happened to this beautiful little girl. Just, when you look at her picture, you'll see what I mean.

So innocent, so sweet, at home with mommy. Why would someone shoot straight through the window with this little girl inside? Who wanted this child dead? Why? I've got a tip line for you. It's 843-285-7305. Repeat, 843-285-7305. Repeat. 843-285-7305. Take a listen to our friends at WCSC Live 5 News.

This is Kaitlin Stancil. Somerville police returned to the scene this afternoon to look for more evidence and talk to residents after a 5-year-old girl was shot and killed. When we came out, we seen all the policemen and stuff like that. That's when we realized something had really happened. was shot and killed. We c the policemen and that's something that really hap remain in the window of t drive. Authorities say so the house from outside le

behind across the street, house man. That's just a right there. Police say I hit by one of those bull while inside her family's home around 10 o'clock last night. And you killing children, they ain't even got much to do or nothing. The baby been five. She was just about to go to school. Neighbors say they believe the house was targeted.

It's hard out here. I ain't gonna lie to you. This neighborhood kind of hard. Somerville police have not yet released information about any known suspects in the case. Again, tip line 843-285-7305. In addition to Italia's mother, Veronica Graham, with me is Pastor Thomas Ravenel joining us from the community. Pastor, thank you for being with us. Thank you for having me. Preacher, what can you tell me about what police are saying right now about who would shoot a five-year-old little girl?

Nancy, I also said to you, the police is just as stunned as we are. Very limited information coming in. The night of the vigil, you could see the expression on the police. They were just as upset and sad as we were but again very limited information we have a theme that we use see something say something and so we're on social media majority of us have changed our profile put you I know myself and and and mr. Ronco we've changed our profile put you to Italia every day we're sharing the flyers. But very little information is coming in at all.

Very little. I hate that. I hate that. Because we need something to work with. Pastor Ravenel joining me there from Somerville, South Carolina, along with Italia's mother, Veronica Graham. Let me bring in the rest of the panel. You know, Lee Egan, joining me. Lee is a reporter, journalist, joining me from CrimeOnline.com. Lee, are there any leads that you know of now because you've been investigating the case as well? Anything? Hey, Nancy, there are no leads that we know of.

There is a saying going around that people in the community may know, and they're not saying anything. But as far as what police have told us, nothing, absolutely nothing. Now, Lee, what is the number one rule that I give you? And that is when I ask you something, don't say, I don't know. Tell me what you think. But in this case, you're absolutely right. Nobody knows. And I find that really hard to believe because isn't it true, Ms. Graham, that at that time of the night, August the 6th, it was still a little bit daylight? Yes, ma'am.

Then when shots ring out to you, Cloyd Steiger, 36 years, Seattle PD, 22 of that, homicide, author, Seattle's Forgotten, serial killer, Gary Jean, Grant Cloyd. When you hear a gunshot,

people stop. It's like, as I said the other day on the air, the first time I saw a junkie shoot up, you know instinctively something's wrong. It's like when you hear a rattlesnake for the first time or you hear somebody racking a shotgun, it's instinctive. You know something is wrong. When you hear a gunshot, you want to tell me in a neighborhood where children like where I grew up would still be in the yard running into each other's homes at 830 at night in the summertime. Oh, yes. It wasn't even fully dark yet. And nobody saw a thing.

And this is 50 feet or less from their window. That is not true. I don't believe that,yd steiger yeah there's no doubt there's people saw this and for whatever reason don't want to tell you know the first murder i ever investigated was very much like this little girl in her house sleeping when somebody shot up the house and killed her and uh in 1994 and nobody wanted to say anything we actually were able to get those guys because somebody made an anonymous tip and maybe somebody should just make an anonymous tip in this case if

they don't want to be called that at least point the police in the right direction then they can work that way but you know this is this is one of the nothing worse that ever happened to a parent and i always hated having to deal with parents because i felt so sorry for them in the situation but that makes the police want to investigate and get this guy almost as much as the mother does. I'm trying to figure out what we know about the cause of death. But first, to Ashley Wilcott, judge, trial lawyer, anchor, Court TV at AshleyWilcott.com. Ashley, weigh in. Listen, this is a senseless act of violence, needless to say. First of all, bullets. We know there were bullets that can then be placed with what type of gun. That's information that

everybody needs to know because then they know if there's a gun owner with that particular type of gun, perhaps that's someone that needs to be spoken to. Videos. This day and age, let me tell you something about youth and young adults that I see in my court. Everybody loves to video. Now, that's good news to catch a criminal. So I believe somewhere out there may be videos that would give information to the police about who did this. You know, I think you're right, Ashley Wilcott. And I want to circle back following up on what you're saying, Ashley, to Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State, the Somerville police say officers, witnesses heard gunfire and they saw a home that had been struck. Here's the critical part.

Multiple times. Multiple times. This was not somebody shooting up in the air for the heck of it, which is ridiculous anyway. This is someone from about 30 to 50 feet away and i'm looking at a picture of the home right now the home is about that window is about 25 30 feet from the street at most the street is 20 feet wide at most i'm looking at it and I'm estimating. I see where there are marks of crime scene tape. And that is telling me where the bullets were. So multiple shots at a window.

The lights on inside, as Ms. Graham just told us. There are different floodlights on people's homes. It's a tree-lined street. It looks like a leave-it-to-beaver street. It's a ranch home. All the windows are on the ground floor. There are some shrubs in front of some of the windows, not all. Multiple shots, Joe Scott.

That's telling me even more. Yeah, it is. And let's talk about the weapon, circling back to what Ashley mentioned just a second ago. We had what we know are spent casings. That means they have been ejected from the weapon. That means that this is a semi-automatic weapon, Nancy. And even the casings themselves. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.

Talk regular people talk. Most people don't have a semi-automatic weapon that they can compare to. I hope they don't anyway. So go ahead. Explain what you're saying. Yeah, what we're talking about is most likely a handgun that has a magazine in it. You know, you see in movies where people, you know, will slide a magazine into the grip. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about the death of a five-year-old little girl. Beautiful. Gorgeous. If you haven't seen her picture, you can see it at crimeonline.com, Italia. I want to go back to Veronica Graham.

This is Italia's mother. But first, take a listen to our friend Angela Brown joining us today. ABC News 4 Charleston. Glendrick is a new dad raising his son just around the block from where five-year-old Italia Brown was shot and killed. Living next door to Glendrick is Terrence Carter, a father himself. That's my firstborn right there, so in a way it kind of really, really hit home because I think about my own child, you know, so I mean, it's just a sad occasion. I pray for the family, feel sorry for the family. Living next door to Glendrick is Terrence Carter, a father himself. The first thing you're going to do really is call and check on your kids and make sure, you know, it kind of reminds you that any day could be your last.

Neighbors tell me they often saw Talia riding her bike, playing. Because I see her all the time riding a bicycle, playing with a chair. If I got something, candy or something, I give it to them. But these nice little kids, all of them got good manners. Today, a pink bike rests beside her home

along with bullet holes in the window. It's rough for a little girl to leave out of the road like that. To Italia's mother joining me right now, Veronica Graham. Ms. Graham, it has been said that a stray bullet hit Italia. I don't believe it was a stray bullet because there were at least two gunshots fired. Nobody else in the neighborhood had their windows broken or were fired at. And this was about 30 to 50 feet from the window.

It was clearly aimed. Ms. Graham, what are police telling you about their theory as to who shot your daughter? Yeah. The only thing they told me so far that they believed the person was on foot, not driving, because the officer was at the stop sign. And the stop sign is the way, like the exit. So they said they rewind the dashboard, the dash camera of the cop car, and they didn't see anybody leave or anybody go. That's why the cops were able to respond as fast as they did because they were already sitting on the stop sign by the stop sign. So they believe it was somebody on the foot. So somebody was walking

around. Let me understand something. Pastor Thomas Ravenel joining me there in Somerville. Pastor, could you tell me where the cop happened to be at one intersection, just patrolling the neighborhood. So no vehicles came out after they heard the shooting. The only way to come out, they would have to have passed that cop, like Ms. Graham said. So that's why, how do we think the person who did it was somebody who familiar with the neighborhood, was comfortable walking through the neighborhood, being in the neighborhood, because, and then waited at a certain, at a point in time to fire into the house. Joe Scott, we're going to get this guy. We're going to get him.

This is a man that knows the neighborhood that is on foot. We've just got double confirmation. That was the only way out, and at that moment, to get into the Evergreen subdivision, at that moment, a cop happened to be sitting there. You know, I know there are bad cops. I know that as well as anybody, because I've had a couple of bad cops that turned out to be witnesses on some of my cases. But when I see a cop in our neighborhood patrolling and driving by. That makes me feel good. What I'm saying is that tells me a lot about who this shooter is. I can also tell you right now, Dr. Bethany Marshall, that it is a young male.

What do you think, Bethany? I think it's a young male, too. I think it's somebody with an extraordinary amount of energy, somebody who has been in that neighborhood, who is very familiar with the neighborhood, somebody who has deep ties into the community. Because I was looking at the footage, and there are children playing in the streets. All the neighbors seem to know each other. This is a true community, Nancy. So they are going to be aware if somebody is walking down the street who's a stranger. I don't believe, I was trying to look at a map. I don't believe this house is near any big commercial district where you're used to strangers kind of drifting in and out. This is a close, tight-knit community where people came forward and spoke to the reporters.

So there's a great deal of familiarity. That's what makes me think that not only would this be a young person with a lot of energy, but somebody who would be known, somebody who was hiding in plain sight. Somerville is part of the Charleston, North Charleston metropolitan area. It's like a bedroom community of Charleston. This is a residential neighborhood, tree-lined street. The yards are covered in grass. There's sidewalks. I want to go now to angela brown investigative reporter joining me from wciv abc for you heard her voice earlier angela what do you know the cops are doing right now to try to find the shooter because i'm telling you right now this is a young male i would say 35

or under most likely under 35, who has either lived in the neighborhood, lives in the neighborhood, or has relatives or friends that live in the neighborhood, who was on foot and owns a weapon. What are cops doing to find the killer? I definitely think that someone in that community knows this person. In fact, I've been texting with the Somerville Police Department yesterday and even this morning, and what they keep stressing is a need for not only people to come forward, but they're urging people to turn over any videotapes, cameras, because you know everybody has a camera on their house. If they have a camera on their home

and was focused on that area, to turn over the video. They seem to be in some ways at a dead end here. They're offering some sort of award. There isn't a monetary amount at this point, but they have a flyer asking people to come forward with information. There will be some sort of reward. But talking to the PIO, I've been texting with him the last couple of days, he's been really stressing this need for

video and tips. And they believe that there may be cameras on somebody's house in that area who the whole thing. And they're asking people to turn over that video and to turn over their information. Well, I believe the police need to go door to door to Pastor Thomas Ravenel. Preacher, what about going door to door? If the cops are too overburdened, can you form a group to go door to door asking for video? Yes, Nancy, the day of the vigil, the rain caught us and really threw everything off. Our plans that day were to go into the neighborhood, knocking on doors and then having a visual. What we're planning on doing hopefully next week

is we're coming back in the neighborhood and we're going to every door in that neighborhood. The neighborhood start is a subdivision in the back, in the front, in the back of the apartment complex where Ms. Graham stayed. And what we're planning on doing next week is we're coming back in there, and we're going to walk, but we're going to start in the neighborhood,

and we're going to walk all the way to the back and knock on every door. Because I think everybody knows some cameras, even if the houses are far distant, could have picked up some of the footage. So we were just hoping and praying that maybe there was a house or a trailer distance away that picked something up. So you hit it right on the head. Outside of my group, parents, again. Preacher, Preacher, you've got to do it, Preacher.

You have to do this thing for her. And another thing, isn't this right to you, Cloyd Steiger? It may not be footage of the shooting. It may be footage of someone walking or jogging or running away. It could be so many different things, Cloyd. Yeah, that's absolutely right. As a matter of fact, it's much more likely that it's not the shooting itself. But it doesn't have to be.

It just has to be a person. You can see his clothes. You can see whether he has a gun in his hand or not. And, yeah, there's video out there somewhere. You just got to find it. To Veronica Graham, this is Italia's mother. Ms. Graham, what do you want people to hear from you today? I just want justice.

That's all. Just justice. Some type of closure. I don't know why somebody would even do that. We've been staying over there for five years and she was born over there so it's not like we're new to the neighborhood or anything so they just know it's just women and children in the house so I don't know I just want to miss Graham I just got to ask you when you wake up in the morning, how do you even keep going? Can't. Can't. I have a 12-year-old daughter, and that's my motivation.

I still got to be strong for her. Guys, the tip line is 843-285-7305. Please help us get justice for this beautiful little five-year-old girl, Italia. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.