Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - 6,000 LETTERS, THOUSANDS IN DONATIONS, BILLBOARDS RENTED, LUIGI MANGIONE FANS WONT STOP

Episode Date: January 18, 2026

Luigi Mangione's legal team created a website for the accused killer, they say “due to the extraordinary volume of inquiries and outpouring of support. His attorneys say the website — luigimangioneinfo.com — was created to ”share case updates, “dispel information” and publish letters from Mangione while he’s incarcerated. He writes “I am overwhelmed by — and grateful for — everyone who has written me to share their stories and express their support.”  That support include thousands donations for his legal fees. Luigi Mangione's defense team describes his "beautiful, promising life" as "derailed" by the murder charges against him. This phrasing is not highlighted as a saying from Mangione's groupies, but as a phrase coming from Mangione's attorney as part of a legal motion filed to dismiss the federal case or get the death penalty tossed. As part of an evidence suppression hearing in the upcoming trial of Luigi Mangione, prosecutors play a 911 call placed by the manager of a McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania. The McDonald's manager is not identified, and the hearing is the first time the 911 call is played in public. The manager is apologetic as she tells the 911 operator she tried the non-emergency line first and continues taking orders as she tells the operator, "I have a customer here some other customers were suspicious of because he looks like the CEO shooter in New York. "And they're just really upset and come to me, and I'm like, I can't approach him." The 911 operator, Emily States, testifies and is heard asking for a description of the individual, with the manager replying,"The only thing you can see is the eyebrows." Mangione's defense attorney, Marc Agnifilo, objects to the 911 call being played, but the judge says he is allowing the call for this hearing. Mangione enters the courtroom in shackles, but the judge allows Mangione to sit unshackled and take notes at the defense table. Long lines outside the courthouse filled with women and men supporters trying to enter the hearing, hoping to get a glimpse of the alleged CEO murderer. Mangione's defense team is trying to prevent several key pieces of evidence from being allowed at trial, like the comment about the 3-D printed pistol. Angifilo claims conversations with correction officers were illegally coerced and should not be allowed. The defense claims Mangione is questioned for 20 minutes by Altoona Police Officer Joseph Detwiler without being read his Miranda rights. Therefore, prosecutors should not be allowed to introduce any testimony about statements made by Mangione to police. United States District Judge Margaret Garnett says she will rule on the defense’s request to drop death penalty charges and the exclusions at a later hearing. If the murder charge remains, Garnett a trial could start in late December or early January 2027. If charges dropped, Mangione's trial might begin this October. Mangione has pleaded not guilty to all charges. Mangione’s next hearing date for Jan. 30.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Spending thousands and thousands of dollars for billboards along the street. Tens of thousands of dollars donation. Nearly 10,000 letters. I'm not talking about a rock star or a movie star. I'm talking about Luigi Mangione fans.

They're crazy. I wonder how Brian Thompson's widow and orphaned boys feel about the billboards, the donations, and the letters. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. As the suspected killer of the United Health Care CEO heads to court, amazingly, his support amongst mostly female fans has not died. When Mangeoni arrived at a Manhattan courthouse for hearings, a billboard featuring a guy named Michael Kissling

was mounted on a truck driving around outside. Who is Kissling? He is a 32-year-old amputee. Who blames United Health Care for denying treatments? He said would have saved his leg. Now, Kissling does not. condone violence. But he does say the shooting death of the CEO Brian Thompson did draw attention to the many obstacles he and many others have faced getting insurance coverage. Kisling makes a

point by saying if he, Mangione is Malcolm X, then I'm emulating MLK, Martin Luther King. Of course, United Health Care disputed Kissling's account, and I'm certainly not defending United Health Care in this. What I am supporting is the right to a trial. What happened that early morning when Brian Thompson was gunned down on the street? A masked gunman shoots dead the United Healthcare CEO in Midtown Manhattan. An urgent search ensues for the suspect. Last scene entering Central Park.

Marriage secrets being revealed as this health boss. worth millions of dollars is gunned down and open around the public? What do we make of clues left behind cryptic and odd clues? For instance, bullets found actually had been inscribed with letters on them. A cell phone had been left behind. Is there DNA on a water bottle? Was this a pro? A silencer was used? And in the middle of the middle of, of the assassination, the gun jams, and seemingly the pro-shooter simply adjusted and continued firing. Everyone, thank you for being with us. If this can happen in public, what are we to think of it? Well, take a listen to what the chief of detectives has to say.

This morning at 646 AM patrol officers from Midtown North Precent responded to a 911 call of a person shot in front of the Hilton Hotel. located at 1335 Avenue of the Americas. This is between West 53rd Street and West 54th Street. At 6.48 a.m., officers arrive and find the victim. Brian R. Thompson, a 50-year-old male on the sidewalk in front of the Hilton with gunshot wounds to his back and leg. You know, the way the shooter handled the weapon, the use of a silencer, the mask, the lying in weight, all indicates a professional hit, but a pro wouldn't want to be caught. A pro pro would do everything not to get caught. So then why were there especially engraved bullets with cryptic messages on them? It sounds like a fifth grade girl riding a crime thriller.

Something's way off with this. Joining me an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now. But for a straight out to investigative reporter Lauren Conlon joining us co-host Primetime Crime on YouTube and you can find her at popprime.tv who has gone to the scene and investigated. Lauren, what can you tell us? Yes, Nancy, and the street, the entire street of West 53rd Street was blocked off. There was plainclothed detectives as well as uniformed officers, basically not saying anything. I asked questions. I asked witnesses if they heard anything. And the parking lot attendants were actually there earlier that morning, but they said, you know, due to the silence, or they didn't hear anything.

Tell me your understanding what you learned of what happened, starting at the beginning. Starting at the beginning, I learned that Brian Thompson arrived in New York Monday. Now, he was not staying at the Hilton. He was staying at a hotel across the street. He was set to speak at 8 a.m. at their annual investors conference, and he was arriving early at 645. So as he walked into the entrance of the Hilton, it was revealed by NYPD that this gunman was allegedly lying in wait before he shot him.

Take a listen to Chief Detective Joe Kinney. Mr. Thompson was removed by EMS to Roosevelt Hospital, where he was pronounced dead at 712 a.m. Mr. Thompson is the CEO of United Healthcare and resides in Minnesota. Detectors from Nightwatch, Midtown North Detector Squad, and Manhattan South Homicide. You responded to the scene and began their investigation. We're learning a lot.

I want to go straight out to Bill Daley, joining us from New York, former FBI investigator, forensic photography, international security expert. Bill, thank you for being with us. You see the video steals were showing? I don't know that a pro would have done this right in front of a surveillance video. Well, you're exactly right, Nancy, is that, you know, people throw on this thing about, you know, professional hitmen. I mean, those are out of the movies.

I mean, this could be somebody who trained, who thought it out, who obviously has done a lot of reconnaissance and research, but we're talking about professional hit people. That's something made in the movies. I would say, Nancy, a couple of things. I'm quite familiar with this area, being a New Yorker and having worked on the streets of New York for quite a number of years, is that this is actually the side entrance.

Mr. Thompson was apparently staying around the corner, we believe, at the Marriott Hotel, which actually gave him a couple of avenues of approach to the hotel. This is the side enters. The main interest on 6th Avenue. So for this gunman to know that he was going to be coming down the side street at this time, suggests to me there was some other reconnaissance inside information that he knew that he was at another hotel. He wasn't saying at the Hilton that he'd be coming down this street. He could have talked around 7th Avenue come down 505th street or another street to grab a cup of coffee, but he didn't. And so there are a couple things out here that

kind of jump out to me that are really concerning with regard to how much information was known about the specific movements of Mr. Thompson that morning. Bill Daly, I know exactly what you mean about that location, but wouldn't it have been easy for the perp, the killer, to be waiting in the lobby, waiting for the victim Brian Thompson to walk out? He didn't have to be lying in wait at that side entrance. He could have simply followed him. He did come up behind him. Yeah, I mean, there are a couple things here, Nancy, that is true. And in fact, you know, if he knew if he was going to be Speaking of the conference, he didn't have to be waiting outside. He could have done it just in the lobby, upstairs, in an elevator, or some other place where he knew there was kind of a kind of cool choke point where he would have had to travel through in order to get to the conference.

The other thing is that which kind of points to perhaps something more someone from the area or from the region is the fact that Mr. Thompson lives out in Minnesota. The day to day, he comes to him from work. He comes to him from his home. He goes perhaps to see maybe his children's sporting events. Who knows what? But those who kind of open areas, other areas where he could have been a target, but yet this was done in New York City where he doesn't live, where he was visiting, where this person would have only had a couple of days opportunity for any kind of reconnaissance

and kind of staging this event. And so it kind of leads me to suggest that this person chose New York, either because it's more difficult. You can get lost in the city. You can do things like this. It could have disappeared into Central Park and perhaps try to hide your trails, you know, or it was a matter of convenience that the person was in and around the area and didn't have to travel to me.

Minnesota. You're right. The victim in town to speak at an investor conference. Listen, the victim was in New York City to speak at an investor conference. It appears a suspect was lying in wait for several minutes. And as the victim was walking to the conference hotel, the suspect approached from behind and fired several rounds, striking the victim at least once in the back and at least once in the right calf. Many people passed the suspect, but he appeared to wait for his intended target. Well, it's clearly targeted Bill Daly. There is no robbery.

There is no carjacking. There is no sex attack. So it's targeted. Can we look at the photo of the suspect's face? Now, we keep hearing we don't know much about him, but I can tell you right now he's white, number one. He knows enough to cover his face. But I see that he is not wearing. wearing gloves to Lauren Conlin. What can you tell me about a discarded water bottle?

The discarded water bottle, Nancy, was found in the alleyway, which is between 53rd and 54th Street. It's the Ziegfield Ballroom alleyway. A pro would not leave behind a water bottle. A pro wouldn't even be drinking anything right before you murder somebody. Not exactly right, Nancy. It goes to my suggestion. This person, again, kind of orchestrated this pre-planned it. thought it out. We can speak about perhaps the weapon a little bit later on, all these things tied to somebody who is knowledgeable about only what they were doing, but certainly not a professional. That's somebody we might see kind of portrayed in the movies. These people would be much more sub-roser about their efforts, would kind of not be seen beforehand. And I'm going to suggest to you

is that besides this video and these images we have now, as that police are looking to kind of put together both the timeline and his trail, there'll be some more coming out. And we'll have some more facial images, perhaps. The DNA may help. But as we all know, working these cases, because you need to have something to compare it to. You need to have some database to compare it to or using ancestral DNA, perhaps tie this person back to someone else and work through that angle. So even though we have all these things, and it could be, who knows, maybe fragmented fingerprints on the bullet casings or other evidence left behind, but again, you need something to compare it to. What we know is that the shooter arrived at the location

on foot about five minutes prior to the victim's arrival. He stands alongside the building line as numerous other people and pedestrians pass him by. From video, we see at 6.44 a.m., the victim is walking alone towards the Hilton after exiting his hotel across the street. We believe the victim was headed to the Hilton Hotel to attend the United Health Group Investors Conference that was scheduled to start at 8 a.m. Let me look at that stance one more time, where the shooter is pointing, pointing the gun. at the victim. You know, everybody on the panel jump in, but Bill Daly, look at that. It looks like someone has been watching too many movies, and they think that's a professional killer

stance. Do you see, you see that right there? I'm just telling you, look, he doesn't have on gloves. He's been hanging out, drinking from a water bottle that he leaves behind. I also understand a cell phone has been left behind, and then he gets on a city bike. It reminds me of a bank robbery I prosecuted where the perp had a bike waiting around the corner. He was anything but a pro, and he peddled off just like this guy is doing. What do you make of that, Bill? Yeah, all these things kind of add up to the fact that this person, again, gave some thought, but yet you talk about, quote, professional. I mean, we really don't have these kind of quote, professional hit men throughout the country.

Maybe the mafia does, but we're not talking about people knocking off executives. This doesn't happen in the United States, perhaps overseas and perhaps a concern with people travel to high-risk locations, but certainly not in New York City. But I'd probably tell you is that both that stance is kind of a suggestion that the person thought they knew what they were doing, but also the fact that this gun jammed, the jammed the jammed several times, apparently right to each shot according to police. They believe that it jammed maybe because there was a silencer on the front, a so that perhaps caused the jammed to occur, but he did clear it very quickly and efficiently.

So you're somebody who did do some practice training with that weapon beforehand. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Lauren Collin, the gun jammed more than once. Apparently it jammed between shots, but, you know, that didn't stop him. So he kept shooting after he fixed it. So the answer is yes. Okay, that's telling me a lot right there. Daly, daily, daily, a pro is going to take a gun that jams between every shot?

Really? Yeah. Well, according to some of the forensic experts is that by using that silencer, and again, silencers are not things that you are supposed to legally have. So if it was homemade, it could have caused more of this kind of malfunction of the weapon. But again, it did seem as though calmly he cleared that weapon. He was able to pull the slide on the top. Daly! Did you say homemade? Look, this is, whew! This is smelling. This is not a pro. I don't even know where that came from. A homemade silencer.

A pro can make a homemade silencer. But come on, man. A homemade silencer that doesn't work, a pretend professional killer stance, drinking a water bottle and leaving it behind and hopping on a bike without gloves and taking off? No, no. Uh-uh. I got to figure this thing out. Guys, why was a health CEO worth millions of dollars gunned down in public early, early morning?

Many people say it's a pro killer. The shooter then flees on foot northbound into an alleyway between 54th Street and 55th Street. Once at West 55th Street, the shooter continues to walk westbound on the Avenue of America's, where he gets onto an electric E-City bike and rides northbound on the Avenue of America, towards Central Park. At 6.48 a.m., we have the shooter riding this bike into Central Park at Stenton Drive. We're still tracking video. The last we see with him on that bike is in Central Park. At the scene, we recover three live 9mm rounds and three discharged 9mm shell casings. The motive for this murder currently is unknown, but based on the evidence we have so far,

it does appear that the victim was specifically targeted, but at this point we do not know why. This does not appear to be a random act of violence. Okay, I know that. I know it's not random. Joining me, high profile lawyer, Bernardo Villalona, New York criminal defense attorney. This is her beat. She is also a former prosecutor. Bernardo, thank you for being with us.

What do you make of it so far? Because not only did the pro-assassasson lead behind three discharged nine-millimeter shell casings, they were engraved with three cryptic, words. I mean, it's straight out of a crime novel. And another thing, Bernardo, anybody that knows how to type G-O-O-G-L-E could find out this guy was speaking where and at what time. Yeah, but I still think there's an inside job because in a sense of they could have known where he was speaking, but they wouldn't have known exactly what time he would have been leaving out of his hotel because remember, this shooter had only been waiting about five

minutes. So he had to have had some kind of inside information to know the exact time that Brian Thompson would have been leaving his hotel. Look, all of this looks very shady. I don't think it's a professional kill at all because, number one, the leaving of the shell casings and the bullets there and then jumping on a bike. I think there's a lot more to this. I don't see that there's going to be an arrest anytime soon, though. Hold on just a moment on that. Daily. Bill Daley with me, former FBI investigator and joining us from New York, intimately familiar with the ins and outs, the alleyways where this happened.

The guy then goes to Central Park. That was a pretty good move. And it's not that far from where the shooting was by bike. But he goes into Central Park, which is blanketed with surveillance videos. I mean, and we can follow his drill. He had to ditch the bike somewhere. I think that we're going to find out where he leaves the bike.

And again, no gloves. As you said earlier, of course, you've got to have something to compare it too. If he's not in the DNA or the APHIS database, we don't have anything to match it too. But that said, can we just agree this is not a pro? Yeah, I surely agree. It's not a pro. I also think that there's other probably kind of breadcrumbs left behind is that, you know, if this was connected with either the business.

because of, see, that either had been a customer who was certainly totally upset and obsessed with this individual or perhaps a former employee. There could have been a number of things. But I think you have to go back and start looking at where they're threats against the company, apparently according to the victim's wife there were. And if there were, who was making those? And what was the steps? Hey, let me follow up with what you're just saying, Bill Daley.

Lauren Conlin, now, according to one person, There have been threats on the victim's life, and that is his wife. Were those threats ever reported to L.E. law enforcement? Nancy, those threats were never reported to law enforcement. With me also is Scott Eicher, founding member, I can't say this enough, of the FBI's cellular analysis survey team. Can I just say, he didn't just fall off the turnip truck, people. Iker, if I was going to pick him off, I would go somewhere with a silencer and wait. Out in the middle of nowhere, right?

Let his body lay there for three or four hours before anybody figures anything out. So why intentionally find him in New York City? I agree. There's a lot of other places that you get to have done this murder, but there's a lot of benefits of doing it in a crowded city also. I mean, if you think about it, you might be able to mix in with the, the, regular people walking to and from work, cars, and everything like that. He didn't think about all the cameras in the area. He didn't think about all the people that might see different things.

And obviously, I agree with the other gentleman that says, I don't think this guy is a professional. I do think he has some training. I mean, I was on the FBI SWAT team. I shot twice a week. And I can see that type of stance that he had from training for him to do that malfunction, clear the gun. shoot again, clear it, clear it. That takes training in time. So I think, in least in my mind,

he's made a lot of mistakes, but I don't think he's a professional. I totally agree with that, but he has had some training. And we're learning more from Chief of Detective's Joe Kenny. From speaking to other employees that traveled with him to New York, doesn't seem that he had a security detail. He left the hotel by himself, was walking. Didn't seem like he had any issues at all. So I don't think he did not have a security detail. Lauren Conlin, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there just a firefighters pension fund that sued the victim because he dumped about 31% of his stock made $15 million just before everything went south, right? And there's a complaint about that. Yes.

That's happening. The wife says there's death threats. He's worth millions of dollars. and he doesn't have security detail. Yes, his net worth is $43 million, Nancy. And not only that, I found a plethora of lawsuits. He was accused of creating an algorithm to deny patients' coverage. So I found quite a few lawsuits there.

And then additionally, there was a data breach. A few, I believe it was February of 2024, where many, many people were at risk and not happy. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace At the very beginning after the murder, Mangione somehow managed to attract an amazing legion of fans, fascination, sympathy. They flooded social media with memes. They sold T-shirts.

But even now, a full year later, they're still hot and heavy on the trail supporting. the 27-year-old Ivy League grad. Amazingly, while Mangione claims he suffered from chronic back pain, although the photos I see are him frolicking on the beach and actually lifting up girls and tickling them, he did not have United Health Care Insurance. So I'm not sure how he targeted Brian Thompson,

but this is what happened. Listen to this. It's just like a fifth-grade girl writes an action-th-th-th grade girl. writes an action thriller or tries to. Listen. Police have released a new chilling detail in the assassination style shooting. Three live rounds

and three shell casings recovered from the crime scene. And cops are now saying there are inscriptions on the shell casings. The words deny, defend, and depose were engraved on the bullets. So the words deny, defend, and depose were engraved

on the bullets? By who? The local jeweler? Joining me right now. is a ballistics expert. Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star of a hit series, Bodybags with Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, really? Okay, I can't hammer this enough. A pro? What, did they write it in fancy cursive? Deny, defend, depose? Seriously? That sounds like the ransom note left behind in

John Bonnet, a small foreign faction wants $118,000. Stop. What's really fascinating about this Nancy is the fact that they've got three spent casings that are on the ground and then they have the three live rounds. And he's having to try to clear this weapon because he's had a malfunction, which actually does occur with some frequency when you have a suppressed weapon. And the fact that he had engraving, and I keep. hearing this term, this engraving that was on these casings, the fact that he had a jam in the weapon,

I would think that it would be engraved on all of the rounds. So how can you plan for that? For instance, if these rounds are stacked, which they would be in a magazine, and every time he clears it, he's going to eject a live round as opposed to those that were spent when he was fired. If you watch the sequence on a video, he fires once, and then it looks like he clears, but he may have actually cleared two rounds at that point in time that we're still live because the weapon is jamming on him, and he has to cycle through it. So he's taken a lot of time. My suspicion is there might be engraving on all of the rounds,

and that he has taken a lot of time somewhere, probably, you know, at home or wherever it is, shows up prepared to a certain degree, although he didn't wear gloves and he didn't fully mask his face, there's a lot still to kind of untangle here, but that point is certainly fascinating. I've never encountered this before in my years in forensics to this degree. Now, you know, Hollywood makes a big deal out of this kind of thing, but it's just not something you commonly run into. My question is, what's the skill level of the engraving? In addition, to attempting to define how this was engraved, what instrumentality was used, and then maybe the folks will be able to pick up on some form in his writing if he's doing this free hand.

Brian Thompson's wife, Paulette, tells NBC News that Brian has been receiving death threats. She doesn't go into detail saying it was basically due to a lack of coverage. She doesn't know exactly, but Brian said there were some people that had been threatening him. Straight back out to Joe Scott Morgan joining us. Joe Scott, I said earlier, if there was a death out on my husband, A, I wouldn't let him travel alone to New York, I would at least go with him at the very least. But that said, they have children to take care of back at home. But no security detail, no police reports, nothing. And she is the only one coming forward with the alleged threats.

If they weren't reported to police, can anyone within the company verify this ever happened? Well, if he hasn't spoken of this to anybody that's around him, but why would he not, you know, say something about this? And let me tell you one more thing. A guy that is in his atmosphere, you know, we see all these so-called celebrities that are out there that have these, you know, security details with it. This is a guy, Nancy, that actually has a level of value. and would heighten anybody's census relative to the danger he could potentially be in. Why wouldn't you put a couple of people on him to check the route at least to be body people that are going to escort him around?

Maybe he didn't want that. I have no idea. But I do know that he's a prime target. It's just fascinated to me that they chose this particular location, this individual went about it in this manner. Because I agree with all of the other panelists. I think this guy has some weapon familiarity, but he is in no way of pro. If he had been a pro, we would not have seen the video last that long.

This guy wouldn't have been dropped immediately. I hope you're sitting down. You may need to lay down for what you're about to hear. Take a listen. The suspect was reportedly spotted outside a public housing project, roughly three miles from the crime scene at 5 a.m., carrying what looked like an e-bike battery. He's then seen again checking out at Starbucks, not far from the Hilton, just minutes before the attack. It's unclear what exactly the suspect purchased, but police believe a water bottle and candy

wrapper left at the crime scene may belong to the shooter and are testing the items for latent fingerprints and DNA. The next thing we're going to hear, Lauren, Colin, is that the shooter used a credit card. I mean, he hung out at a Starbucks just before the shooting and, of course, places himself at a public housing project. Yeah, that's right. Blame the people at the housing project, somehow drag that into it. I guarantee you that was orchestrated.

Three miles from the scene with what looked to be carrying an e-bike battery in case his e-bike crapped out on him. Now, at first, this was reported to be a city bike, the kind that are easily accessed all around New York City. Now we're hearing it may not be a city bike. That said, then he's at Starbucks just beside the Hilton, minutes before the attack, staring straight into the surveillance cameras. So there's not just a water bottle.

he leaves behind a candy wrapper. Somebody needs a bit of honey. Somebody wants the starburst before a murder. Yes. And there also have been reports that NYPD believes that he may have actually taken the subway from the Upper West Side to Midtown and to that Starbucks. Wait, then if he was on the Upper West Side, then he spotted at a housing project. There's not a housing project on the Upper West Side.

Okay. That's where all the rich people live to look down on Central Park. There's not a housing project there. So does he leave the Upper West to go to a housing project to be spotted and then go to the Starbucks? Well, that's what police are trying to figure out. Idiot! Well, I'm hoping that he did take the subway because Mayor Eric Adams did implement more cameras earlier this year. Okay.

I got a lot of surveillance on this guy. But you're right. Subway would help me figure out where he's coming from, where he's going, and how he knows those paths. I'm still flummoxed by the fact that he would leave a water bottle with his DNA on it. A candy wrapper, take a bike, no gloves, has a pretend pro shooter stance, and has engraved bullets for Pete's sake. Why not just throw down your driver's license before you leave? Okay, now we hear about a potential eyewitness that goes on. The run. Police still have not identified the eyewitness who ran from the scene as Thompson was gunned down.

A woman dressed in dark clothing and holding a coffee cup was standing in a doorway just feet away from Thompson when the shooter opened fire. She runs along the building toward the shooter to avoid the gunfire and disappears from frame. Authorities are asking her to come forward, hoping she may be able to provide new details on the shooter. There's a cell phone recovered in the alleyway. We're working through that cell phone. Obviously, we'll be processing it forensically. As far as words being exchanged, we do not have audio of the incident. only have the regular video. But nothing from witnesses.

Nothing for, well, there was one witness standing right next to the victim when he was shot. We're still trying to identify that victim. Excuse me, excuse me, that witness. And we also learn that law enforcement has turned their attention back home to Minnesota. Listen. Once again, we're looking at everything. We're looking at his social media. We are interviewing employees.

We are interviewing family members. We will be speaking to law enforcement in Minnesota. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Billboards, thousands of dollars, thousands of letters supporting the so-called health care assassin. Will it matter in court? Will public opinion matter? It certainly did in the case of Sean Diddy Combs. This is what I know is true.

These facts. This is what happened. What is the address of your emergency? It's not really an emergency. I have a customer here that some other customers were disposed. It's just a bit he looks like the CEO shooter from New York. Okay. Straight out to Kayla Brantley joining us.

Investigative reporter at large, daily mail.com. Did they actually say in court that their client, Luigi Mangione, is the victim because his quote, beautiful, promising life has been derailed? Yeah, Nancy, as you mentioned, his team did paint him as someone with a promising future. Now, one thing that had been documented was that Luigi suffered from debilitating back pain. This was something that he went through. He went through back surgery. And one thing that they say here is that the real enemy here is the medical system. And that is one thing that you can definitely expect his legal team to argue.

Kayla, could I believe you are my lion eyes? Control room, please. Show me him running along the beach in her. Hawaii? I've got videos of him lifting up girls and tickling them. It's a video. They're all giggling hysterically, including him. I've got photos of him lounging by the beach. I'd love to see those photos of him hiking and what looks to be a jungle rainforest. Oh, he is feeling no pain there, Kayla Brantley. I hope you don't fall for that hook laying seeker. Dr. Judy Ho, did you know that Luigi Mangione is apparently the victim in this scenario?

Dr. Judy Ho is joining us, clinical forensic, neuro psychologist, author of The New Rules of Attachment and another bestseller, Stop Self-Sabotage. You need to write one Dr. Judy Ho about try to tell the truth and then send it, you know, I'll pay for it and we can send it to Luigi Mangione. He is not the victim here. But, you know, you can't count out the defense attorney Agnefellow. He got Sean Combs off on the major.

accusations in that indictment. So no matter how ridiculous I may think he sounds, he essentially won that case. Yes, it's his defense team that claims Luigi Mangione is the victim. I want to read it, Dr. Judy Ho. Beautiful promising life derailed by those irritating murder charges, Judy. Wow, beautiful promising life, Nancy. What a narrative. And as you said, even though he's not the victim, I think this is why there has been a fan base, though, because there's these individuals who actually believe maybe he is a victim, that he's some type of anti-hero, that he's misunderstood. And oftentimes we see this in individuals who might act charitimately. They just seem to pull people in. And it's weird because a lot of these people who develop this sort of fan, fanhood around Luigi, they're kind of thinking, well, maybe I can be a special person.

in his life. Maybe he'll pay attention to me. Maybe I can even develop a friendship with this person. This person might learn to trust me. It's really interesting, but some of it actually has to do with a self-centeredness of people who might actually flock to him, that they're hoping to get something special out of it for themselves. I'm sorry, Dr. Judeau, I know you're the clinical and forensic neuropsychologist, but I don't even know what you just said. How can the defense stand up and say, this is not about the murder victim. Can we show, please? Brian Thompson walking along and he's gunned down in cold blood, leaving behind two sons and wife. That's the victim. According to prosecutors, is Luigi Mangione holding a 3D weapon that he made, that it took

dozens and dozens of hours to make so he can gun down a guy walking down. to work. In the back. You stated, I don't know what that was, Dr. Judy Ho. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying I'm just a trial lawyer, didn't understand it, but I think I know some of the people that consider Luigi Mangione to be the victim. And here they are filing into court. Okay. Oh, what, Luigi fights fascists. Okay. look at this line. Now wait till you see the cat walk parade of sad sack women filing in to they wouldn't even show their face to get a glimpse of Luigi Mangione. Yes. Keep it going. Keep it going because I've got hours of people. Yeah, that was totally walking the catwalk right.

there clamoring to get in to just bask in the glow of Luigi Mangione. Oh, it keeps going. Yeah, on and on. They had to turn women away. And it's not just women. Listen. So this is who police believe was responsible for the United Health Care CEO, PiuPu. His name's Luigi.

All I can say is, mamma me, does he need a Mario? I'm kidding. I believe it was a great philosopher. poet once said, Mama, I'm in love with a criminal. And this type of love isn't rational. It's physical. That was Britney Spears. And I believe we're all feeling that right now. I believe if you're going to do superhero like shit, you better look like one, okay? This man clearly did that. Did he train at the Marvel Studios with all the other Chris is? Okay? Because Luigi, that's a spicy meat bowl. I'm so sorry. I believe if we're going to claim to be a Christian nation

that we need to act like one. And part of acting like that is practicing forgiveness. And after a lot of seconds of thinking, I've decided I'm gonna forgive him. I'm ready to forgive him, right? But not forget because, I mean, my God, how could you forget an angel like this? I'm not gonna lie. For a while, I thought, oh my God, we're never going to find him, you know? And I was wrong. Because somewhere along the way, the ups and downs, the highs and lows the masks and no masks, this man, he found a way into our hearts. He did. I hardly even know where to start with that. That is from Mr. Williams Spreck on TikTok.

I'm in love with the criminal, and I forgive him after a few seconds of consideration. Dr. Judy Ho, I can't say it gets worse, but there's more. Listen. taking lives for fun. You can't take my man. That's from Scarlet Park TikTok. So it's gone beyond calling him a spicy meatball. These people actually consider Luigi Mangione their man,

and they are angry with the feds for prosecuting. Have I gone down the rabbit hole? Am I in some crazy bizarre? Alice in Wonderland. What is happening, Dr. Judy Ho? I know it seems completely unbelievable, Nancy, but this does happen. People start to idolize these potential. I mean, clearly, this is a defendant, right? But they're thinking in their minds, this person is innocent. Maybe I'm going to be their special person and they're lusting after them the way that they would lust after a celebrity, especially when they see photos and videos that they can start cutting into their

own social media. They're developing a fictionalized relationship with him, a fantasy, and essentially completely erasing all of the facts that have been evident in this case. And clearly, the defendant's attorneys are trying to paint that picture as well, leaning into it as hard as possible, because they're hoping to influence the public opinion even before a jury is selected so that they can hopefully get him the outcome that he wants, which is apparently to escape a death sentence, escape prison maybe. I'm not sure. exactly what they think is possible, but that's what's so scary about all the positivity that has developed around his persona in terms of all of these illustrations, the website they set up about him. It's really concerning. And you know, Cheryl McCollum is joining me, Cold Case

Investigative Research Institute founder, author of a brand new book. Swans Don't Swim in a sewer solving the cold case of the Flint River Killers' daughter on Amazon. Cheryl, okay, do you remember the night that you and I were out until, what, two o'clock in the morning, staking out a location where we thought Luigi Mangione was going to be apprehended? Do you remember that night? Because I sure do. I do. How has this gotten so bass-acquards, Cheryl? Nancy, it is mind-boggling that anybody is trying to paint this killer as the victim. I mean, the victim's life was not just promising. It was in full swing.

He had a wife and children and a career at the highest level. He had friends and extended family. He had everything going for him. Mangione had none of that. But he took everything from those children. And I'm going to tell you something. when you look at the people that are contacting him, I hope and pray that those 6,000 letters that he's gotten,

that 150 a day, that there's some good intel in there too, because he is writing people back. So he's communicating, and I hope they're listing every piece of it. Somehow, this has gotten topsy-turvy upside down. I haven't even gotten into the legal implications of what is happening in court. I'm just so concerned that one of these nut jobs is going to end up on the

ultimate jury and acquit Luigi Mangione under the misconception that he is somehow the victim. Again, in court, his lawyers, and I'm quoting, claim that his beautiful, promising life has been derailed by murder charges.

It's all about me, me, me, me, me, me. This is a millionaire's son, multi-millionaire who grew up with a silver spoon stuck in his mouth and has been living in a Hawaii high rise on the beach, doing nothing. And yet he's the victim. Can you imagine Cheryl McCollum how hard Thompson had to work to get to become the CEO at United Healthcare? It wasn't handed to him on a silver platter on top of a Christmas tree like it was Mangione. He had to work and sacrifice long, long hours to get to where he got to, to be gunned down like a dog on the sidewalk, Cheryl? Nancy, you cannot compare these two people. That's why I agree with you. This whole thing is upside down.

Not only did the victim work and sacrifice, so did his wife. You know what it tells. You know how long David has gone during the day? It's not an eight-hour day. It's a 16-17-hour day. He was playing at the top of his game. There's no doubt about it. Mangione was giving nothing to a family. He was giving nothing to society.

He was contributing zero. And again, what he took cannot even be measured. If I hear one more person talk about his back pain. That's you, Kayla Brantley. I think my head's going to blow off because I have videos of him tickling these girls and picking them up just before the shooting. I can't show it because it has the girls' faces in it. But he was feeling no pain. But it's all about me, me, me, me, me, me, why me? And he's certainly not the first. Let me refresh your recollection, as we say in court, with Bridekiller Jamie

Lee Komarowski. Listen to her. I still just don't know why this hard to happen to me. Because bad things happen to good people, honey. That's why. It's just, it's just

faith. It's just something that happened to you and we are going to deal with it the best we can, okay? Dave Mack joining me, crime stories, investigative reporter. You know who the bride killer is, right? Jamie Lee Komaroski,

she's guilty. She got totally, stinking drunk and plowed into a beautiful bride, leaving her wedding reception with the groom and killed her. And there she is behind bars going, why is this happening to me? One look and listen to her father, Nancy. What does he say? Well, bad things happen to good people. No, they don't. You just killed somebody because of your own actions. But, See, we've got a whole group of people now that never want to admit they did anything wrong. Everything is on them.

How can you possibly think? Manjone is sitting here saying his life is derailed? Well, he destroyed another life and another family. Kamarowski's sitting in jail. Why is this happening to me? Well, why not? What did you expect would happen? Sick of this, Nancy.

It's getting really tiresome. And there is her victim, Samantha Miller, in her wedding dress just before she's mowed down dead. by Jamie Lee Komorowski. And here's, I guess, this would have to be the Miss Universe of Why Me, Jody Arias. Check her out. She is more concerned about her makeup as she is approaching trial in the brutal stabbing and shooting death of her fiance, Travis Alexander, who was stabbed at least 29 times. Joe Scott Morgan and I've argued about that. I say it was more than that. Check it out. Jody Arias, you should have at least done your makeup before you speak to police about murdering your fiance when he broke up and started seeing someone else. That earlier

video from 48 hours, Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics. Do you recall Travis Alexander's death? Hey, stay on that video because as they're about to question her about what could have happened to Travis Alexander, she starts singing and there you go, does a headstand. and bemoans the fact she doesn't have on her lip gloss. Talk about me, me, me, Joe Scott. What happened to Travis? Yeah, he was brutally murdered, Nancy. She had him stripped down nude, taking a shower,

taking dirty pictures, if you will. And while his back is turned, she takes a knife and plunges it into his back over and over and over again. When he turns around to defend himself to try to parry her stabs at him, him, he gets stabbed in the chest as well. And if it wasn't enough after he spits up blood onto his sink, onto his sink, he crawls, tries to crawl away from her down the hallway. She straddles him and cuts his throat from ear to ear and the coup de grace, she shoots him after he is dead. That's the kind of human that you're looking at right here. She's absolutely disgusting. And it's all about

me, me, me. Joe Scott Morgan, you've seen it all. I'm going to try to show you something you haven't seen yet. Speaking of me, me, me, and criminal defendants focusing only on themselves and not their victims, there is the drunk, stinking drunk, ADA, Assistant District Attorney Devin Flanagan, listen to her. Your protocol is, can we ask you to,

but the protocol is, and your protocol is, is if I ask you to turn off the body cam, you have to turn it off, and that's your protocol. She's a lawyer, so she knows. Well, that's a big lawyer stuff, so that's not true. So we got to go. No, it is. That's law.

I'm an E.G. I'm an EG. Good for you. I don't get a . Let's go. Those two were kicked out of, I think it was a bar for being drunk and belligerent. Then you've got, oh gosh, she's been called the screaming ban sheet. And do you hear going, I'm an ADA, I'm an ADA. Every sentence starts with I, I, I, I, listen to this woman, Joe Scott.

did not touch me. If he wants to call assault, we're going to go through that route. No, he wants to go through assault? No, we're not doing that then. No, he claims I assaulted him? Nope, we're not doing that.

We're not doing that. And then, of course, maybe this one beats Jody Arias. No, no, no. I'm going to have to go with Luigi Mangione and his beautiful life derailed. I'm sure you would call Shana Hubers that gave her ex-boyfriend, the, quote, nose job he always wanted with a handgun?

Listen. He's very vain. One of our last conversations we had that was good was that he wants my best friend of the dentist to do with the nears and want to get a nose job. Just that kind of person. And I'm right here. I gave him his nose job. He wanted. I want to marry me if they know that I killed a boyfriend and helped.

You know, Joe's got him. Morgan, Professor Forensics and Death Investigator, your forte is dead bodies and causes of death and modes of death. Let me go to special guests joining us now, Dr. Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Dr. Angie Arnold, what is that? I don't know if you saw this for yourself, but Mangione's defense team is actually arguing his life was derailed by the murder charges. You know, Nancy, my thought is that's all they've got. Who cares if his life was derailed?

He is accused of murdering someone. Maybe his life should be derailed. But the way I feel about this is, Nancy, that's all they've got to say. That is the only thing they've got. Let's talk about the facts and the law. Listen. As she tells the operator, I have a couple of things. here that some other customers were suspicious of that he looks like the CEO shooter in New York.

And they're just really upset and come to me and I'm like, I can't approach him. The manager continues working and can be heard talking about bagels at one point shouting, one of them is no butter. The 911 operator, Emily States, testifies about the call and is heard to ask for a description with the manager replying. The only thing you can see is the eyebrows. Joining us is Sky Lazzaro. She's a veteran criminal defense attorney. She's practiced in both, she's practiced in both state and federal court. She is with Ray, Quinny, and Nebucher. Sky,

thank you for being with us. If the defense is arguing that Luigi Mangione was illegally arrested, the 911 call occurred before the arrest. So what could be the possible grounds for suppressing that call by the McDonald's manager. I think they're going to have a really hard time keeping the 911 call out. I can understand it from a defense perspective. You have to try. But when it comes to 911 calls, as long as you can lay the foundation for it, it's probably coming in.

I can tell you one thing. I know, Sky Lazaro, that they hate about this 911 call. We had the same thing happen in the Idaho slayings of four. for beautiful Idaho University students, where Dylan Whartonson described Brian Koeburger's freaky bushy eyebrows. Listen. I just remember seeing this figure that was like not fat,

obviously, but more of like the skinnier tongue build and some mask on. I don't know what the mask exactly was, but when I thought about it, it was just like covering here and here. I don't know if it was covering his mouth, his nose, or below his mouth and nose. I just remember knowing that he was white,

but I didn't know how he was white. I just knew he was. And there's, like, I knew he looked at me because of a bushy eye. That's all I remember. Joining me is Tom Smith, former NYPD detective, 30 years, now star of the Gold Shields podcast, and he covered the very same streets where Brian Thompson was gunned down in cold blood. You know, I have had a killer identified. It was a chef, by the way.

identified by a particular limp that he had. I've had a bank robber identified because he walked slew-footed. In other words, like a duck. There are all sorts of ways to identify someone. It can be by voice. It could be any number of things. In this case, the McDonald's manager said, bushy eyebrows.

And there's no doubt that's Luigi Mangi. They hate it. They hate that identification, Tom. Yeah, they do because, you know, it shows how important, Nancy, and we did this when we first started talking about this case, how important the videos and all the photos were to get out to the public. Even if his face was covered, even if he was in a cab or whatever it was, because those eyebrows jumped off the page to everyone who looked at it. That was the number one thing that everyone looked at as a looking point and identification point when it came to him. And it just showed that the quicker they got those photos out, the better it was in the end of this. You know, I'm very curious about this. The fact that he is identified at McDonald's by his eyebrows, among other things.

Let's see the pictures of the McDonald's. There you go. There he is at McDonald's. But Sky Lazare, don't you think that the defense should be more concerned about the fact that he can be identified at the time of the killing? He showed his face repeatedly. I agree with you. He probably should have been a little bit more careful at that time, and that should be the stuff they're seeking to exclude. And maybe they will.

I think as it goes to the 911 call, the defense's probably only argument is that these are witnesses who identified him, not from the shooting. They weren't there that night, so they can't say, I saw him do the shooting. They just want to exclude it because he's at the McDonald's. The problem is they get to the McDonald's, and it turns out to be him. Speaking of getting to the McDonald's, the defense is arguing that while he wasn't really under arrest, he was kind of under arrest because so many police started showing up and massing at the McDonald's, they were concerned if this is Luigi Manji the health care assassin, he's probably armed. And as a matter of fact, he was. He was armed. There was a weapon in his backpack sitting right there with him. So they were right. Now, what the defense

is arguing is that having multiple police, multiple police officers show up is tantamount equal to arresting him. Why do we care? Because police engage in a conversation with him to identify him and he spilled a lot of information in that conversation. The state says it was before his arrest. Why does it matter? Because a statement taken while you are in custody without Miranda will be suppressed. So they want the judge to believe that because several police officers showed up at McDonald's, that Mangione was effectively under arrest and any statements he made pre-Morandamara. should be suppressed. That's not going to happen. When I walk into, let's just pretend a Chipotle and all the Atlanta PD are in there getting a salad. I don't feel like I'm under

arrest. Think about it. Listen. Manjone stares at monitors showing his arrest at McDonald's. Manjone sits to eat breakfast at 903. 11 minutes later, the 911 call is made. 928, two police officers show up and begin talking to Manjone. The restaurant slowly begins to fill with police until 942, when at least eight officers are visible on the recording. The defense claims packing the place with police amounts to unlawful detention prior to Manjone's arrest. Agnifalo argues police surrounding Manjone and the McDonald's is tantamount to illegally detaining the alleged killer. Agnifalo also takes exception with the way officers treated Manjone's backpack during the arrest, claiming it was warrantlessly searched on the scene. In other words, they looked in his backpack.

Cheryl McCollum joining me, she is not only a crime scene investigator and founder of the Cold Case Research Institute, but she is also the star of a hit podcast, which I actually put on a loop sometime, Cheryl McCollum, Zone 7. Cheryl McCollum, has it ever dawned on you when you go in to McDonald's for a cup of coffee that you're arresting somebody? That your mere presence equals an arrest? Because that's what they're arguing. And what they're trying to do, Cheryl, is get out from under what Mangione said to police pre Miranda and them finding evidence in his backpack. I think the body cam is going to be so critical here because it's going to show all of his action. It's going to, you know, show the world that he stood up and thought he was under arrest.

Only a guilty person would think that, Nancy. What the defense is doing is there basically, look, you use Menlo. to make something grow, right? So they are planting and cultivating and trying to grow this story that he's the victim, that he didn't do anything, that he was under arrest, but now we can't use anything,

and it's just BS. While this legal warfare is taking place in a courtroom, Mangione's attorneys continue to insist that he's the victim. He's a young man, and he is being treated like a human ping pong ball between two warring jurisdictions here,

and they are literally treating him like he is, like some sort of political fodder, like some sort of spectacle. He was on display for everyone to see in the biggest staged perp walk I've ever seen in my career. There was no reason for the NYPD and everybody to have these big assault rifles that, frankly, I had no idea it was in their arsenal,

and to have all of these, the press there, the media there. It was like perfectly choreographed. And what was the New York City Mayor doing at this press conference? He is a walking, talking contradiction. He supposedly is, again, this wealthy CEO, yet he comes for money. This is a guy living in a high rise in Finalulu, waking up to the beach every morning. Did you wake up to a beach for you this morning? Because I sure do not. The Luigi Mangiani defense is fighting tooth and nail to keep out what happened in that. McDonald's and as Cheryl McComb is pointing out, that body cam is going to be so significant because it doesn't matter what the state says. It doesn't matter what the defense says or how much

Luigi Mangione claims he's the victim. What matters is what really happened inside that McDonald's. They're not going to get the 911 call suppressed. That's not happening. But what happened in the McDonald's is the state going to lose valuable evidence on a legal technicality. Why is it? They want that backpack suppressed. Straight out to investigator at large for daily mail.com, Killa Brantley. What was in the backpack? Nancy, there was a 3D printed gun. It's a handgun, which is believed to could possibly be the murder weapon.

There was a notebook with handwritten notes in it. Then he also had a knife on him, which was discovered about 20 minutes later. So he was armed, and at that point he was considered very dangerous. Okay, hold on. What did you say was written Imagione's spiral notebook that was in his backpack? That he wanted and he used the word whack, the healthcare CEO. Wack meaning kill, hurt, destroy. No wonder they want it suppressed.

To Dave Mack, a crime stories investigative reporter, tell me about the 3D gun, sometimes called a ghost gun. Well, Nancy, you know, we have not been given the very specifics of what type of gun. We know it's a pistol, but we don't know the exact name of it. 3D printed firearms take a massive amount of time and filament far more than any other. The Liberator is the most common and it's the easiest one to print and takes the shortest amount of time. The Liberator takes 30 hours of constant printing with nonstop printing, Nancy, 30 hours to print the easiest of all the pistols. Tom Smith, here's the thing

with a ghost gun is made on a 3D printer, Tom. It's unserialized. That's why they're so popular amongst criminals. You think Grandpa has his long gun, his shotgun under the bed? You think it's a 3D printed gun?

No, it's got a serial number. Why is it so serious that a ghost gun is unserialized? Well, because you can't trace it. No matter what you do with that weapon, it cannot be traced back to you. And that is why so many criminals and Luigi Maggioni, of course, went to the lengths that he did to make that gun because that is the predetermined and premeditation of it already. He's already thinking ahead of that gun not being traced to him. And that is part of this as well. Tom Smith, you're exactly correct. To Joseph Scott Morgan, let me introduce him formally. He is a professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University with an incredible criminal procedure program.

He's the author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. He is a death investigator that has handled thousands of death scenes. And he's a star of hit podcast, Body Back to Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, what is a suppressor or? commonly known as a silencer? Yeah, I stay away from the term silencer because no weapon is silenced. It is suppressed. That means that the crack of the sound, you're talking about a perhaps supersonic round.

It's traveling, you know, past the speed of sound. So what you want to do is reduce that sound that's put forth from the muzzle. If you take a close look, I'm glad that you have that image, you take a close look at that weapon there. The end of that muzzle is actually threaded. What that means is, is that it's adaptable. It's adaptable to contain a suppressor. The suppressor is displayed here. It's that long black cylindrical object there.

It can be screwed on on the end. Well, you want to knock down the sound, so it's not going to draw attention to you when you fired this thing. Because let's just say that it is a non-suppressed weapon. This thing's going to echo through the canyons down there in Manhattan, through all of those buildings. You'll still hear a sound, but it'll be a slight crack. It's not like it's portrayed in movies, okay?

But it will reduce the sound. It doesn't completely eliminate it. And the purpose of this is so that you're not going to draw attention to anyone. It does reduce, say, some of the capabilities of the weapon as far as the effectiveness of it at a greater range. But this is not a close range. As a matter of fact, if we were to look at the body here, it would be classified as indeterminate because you're not going to have any kind of sutt deposition gun unpronged gunpowder it will have fallen away by that time but this is not

too distant of a shot you'll still have that same muzzle velocity striking into brown thompson's body it's effectively lethal joining me now the star of zone seven podcast Cheryl McCollum is with us. Cheryl, who has un-serialized guns and silencers? Criminals. And Nancy, there's another

thing, even though this is a 3D printed weapon, it's still going to leave marking on casins, and they're going to be able to be, you know, determine that this weapon fired the bullets that murdered Brian Thompson. So

forensically, it's not going to get you out of trouble. They may not can trace it to a manufacturer to a buyer, but they can absolutely determine that that bullet was fired by that weapon. Cheryl McCollum, you're so right.

And Tom Smith, this is like a fish in water for you. Every day you were getting off the streets of Manhattan guns to match with bullets. Bullets that were literally dug out of victims' bodies.

and Cheryl said it right. A bullet hurls down the barrel of a gun. That gun might look like all the other guns in the gun store showcase, but it's not. Because inside the barrel, the metal has cooled in a certain way. And it leaves ridges and imperfections on the inside of the barrel. And as that bullet shoots down the barrel, it is for, forever marked by those imperfections. So when you take the murder weapon to the crime lab and you shoot a bullet through the murder

weapon and you take the known bullet, dug out of the victim, and you put it under a microscope next to the one you just shot, it's like a fingerprint. No other gun, be it a 3D printed gun, a grandma's bessie's out from under her mattress You can track and identify like a fingerprint. That bullet came from that gun. Isn't that true? 100%. And that's the best way to say it.

It's the gun's fingerprint. And the ballistic check of that in the twist marks and all of that is what you match up. And it is a fingerprint that is unmatchable to anyone else. It is strictly to that weapon that you will match up the weapon, take it out of the ground taken out of the victim and match it up. And that is damaging when it comes to court. Oh, yeah. And Tom Smith, that is why they are fighting to the death in court to keep that jury from

ever knowing of a ballistics match that his 3D printed gun is the murder weapon. Listen to Alvin Bragg, the Manhattan District Attorney. For nearly an hour, we alleged the defendant waited. in the area near the Hilton Hotel waiting for Mr. Thompson to appear. From 6.38 a.m. to 6.44 a.m. the defendant stood across from the entrance of the hotel on West 54th Street. When he saw Mr. Thompson, he crossed the street and approached him from behind. Calla Brantley, D.L.E.M.L. The defense for Luigi Mangione is also trying to suppress statements he allegedly made to his guards. He had special guards.

bar, so nothing would happen to him like it did to Epstein. So let's first talk about Thomas Rivers, the former British infantryman who was minding Mangione. What did Mangione allegedly say to Rivers? Nancy Luigi was held for 10 days in Pennsylvania, and he had spoken about being very disappointed that he was being compared to the Unabomber. He also said that mainstream media was more focused on crime and that when you looked at social media, they were really more focused about the healthcare industry, which according to this officer is what Luigi said this was really about. Wow. Sounds like a confession to me, Sky Lazzaro. Oopsie. Nancy, I agree and disagree. Here's the problem. They put these guys in a situation like that in solitary where they can't talk to anybody

else. And the other thing is that we know these officers didn't document any of this. They're supposed to be taking notes seven times an hour about what he's doing and his well-being, and they don't write down anything, like he just made an admission? Sky Lazzaro. Did you say it's a problem? He's being held in solitary? You know who else is in solitary? Brian Thompson, except his is a casket.

So you're telling me, again, I can't believe you're buying into this, Sky Lazzaro, that he's the one that's being tormented. You know what else he told Rivers? that Rivers should really read Doors of Perception by Aldous Huxley, which is all about psychedelic drug trips and mystical interpretations. Needless to say, Rivers did not read the book. But there is another guard that he talked to. This is the one I'm really interested in.

Listen. Officer Matt Henry wasn't chatty with the alleged killer. That doesn't stop Man Johnny from telling Henry. he was caught with a 3D printed firearm, the weapon used to murder CEO Brian Thompson. Attorney Mark Agnifalo challenges Henry saying, so he just blurted out to you that he had a 3D printed pistol? Henry dryly replies, yes. To Dr. Angela Arnold joining us, she's a renowned psychiatrist out of the Atlanta jurisdiction at Angela Arnold.com.

Former professor psychiatry. It goes on and on, former medical director at the psychiatric OBGYNCLAIN, Grady, which never has a lack of business. I found a lot of witnesses and victims at Grady Hospital. Dr. Angela Arnold, why is this so hard? I bet a jury's not going to have a hard time believing this, that Luigi Mangione, who has had a lifetime of entitlement, would blab to his guards. Why? They're his new friends. They would never betray him, right? Yeah. Oh, sure. And you know, Nancy, he probably suffers from some sort of personality disorder in which he thinks about himself an awful lot. So he really doesn't, he may not see that he's done anything wrong.

And he probably hasn't suffered any consequences for any of his actions in the past. And so that would make him more likely to almost be bragging about what he's done and to let other people know what he's done. This is typical for his behavior. in all likelihood throughout his existence. Tom Smith joining me, former NYPD detective, 30 years now star co-hosts of Gold Shields podcast. Tom, what is wrong with rich people? Do they think they can just get away with everything, anything and everything? They can confess, they can say, yeah, they caught me with the 3D printed gun, which is the murder weapon.

What is wrong with them? Have you noticed the same sense of entitlement? Sometimes does them in? Because they think they can buy off everybody that everybody wants to be their friend. But these two guards do not want to be his friend. Yeah, they've lived their whole life like this, Nancy. You know, they've gotten what they want. They need to pay for it or the power that they have has influenced someone's decision

into what they're getting or what they're doing. And they just think that holds true for every aspect of their life, including killing someone. I mean, that's how deranged they are when it comes to the entitlement that they believe they are owed. When it comes to murder or, you know, killing a bride. We did that show. You know, it's just constant. And it just keeps coming up and it's absolutely disgusting. Tom, I want you to look at a picture.

If I can get the control room to put it up for me, dig through those files. I want to see the picture of allegedly Mangiani, who is presumed innocent, holding up the 3D with the silencer on it, pointing directly at Brian Thompson's back. According to police, he waited an hour for just the right moment. There's his backpack, which was recovered at the McDonald's. There's his outfit, which he had with him. There's the 3D weapon. and let's look at Brian Thompson, walking along early morning, going to a work conference. He shot in the back right there.

And I'm not going to play that when he actually gets shot, because someday, somehow, his boys might look this up online, and I don't want this to be stuck in their memory. Kelly Brantley were any of Manjeanli's family members in court and were any of the victims' family members in court this week. Not that we know of Nancy, but a lot of Luigi's supporters. And one thing, have you heard of pretty privilege? Because it absolutely feels like Luigi is benefiting from that by having hordes of fans because he is a handsome man, that he is benefiting from pretty privilege. and I'm sure his defense team is happy that they have a relatively attractive man as a client.

Keala, I don't find him attractive. Every time I look at him, I see a tail swishing in the back and two horns right here. That's what I see. What is happening in court this week is critical. If this evidence is suppressed, there may be no justice in this case. a man shot down on the sidewalk, on video, and no justice. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace signing off.

Goodbye, friend. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.