Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - 8-year-old-girl DEATH BY TRAMPOLINE

Episode Date: October 20, 2020

Odessa, Texas, Police respond to a medical call at the home of 44-year-old Daniel Schwarz and his wife, 34-year-old Ashley Schwarz. They tell the officers that 8-year-old Jaylin has been jumping on the trampoline for an extended period of time without taking any breaks. She dies. An investigation uncovers that Jaylin is being punished by being made to jump without receiving water, and it's not the first time.Joining Nancy Grace today: Darryl Cohen -Former Assistant District Attorney, Fulton County, Georgia, Defense Attorney  Dr Debbie Joffe-Ellis - Psychologist, Adjunct Professor at Columbia University, www.debbiejoffeellis.com Chris Byers -former Police Chief Johns Creek Georgia, 25 years as Police Officer, now Private Investigator and Polygraph Examiner, www.chrisbyersinvestigationsandpolygraph.com   Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet" featured on "Poisonous Liaisons" on True Crime Network Ray Caputo - Lead News Anchor for WDBO Orlando Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Death by trampoline. Have you ever heard of that? Because I had not until I got to know about a little eight-year-old girl named Jalen. Let it go, let it go, let it go. I don't have to cry. I don't have to cry.

I don't have to cry. I don't have to cry. I don't have to cry. Well, I know every word to that song. That's from Frozen, Let It Go. And how many times have we ridden down the road or the highway with the windows down, screaming out the lyrics of Let It Go? You were just hearing little Jalen singing Let It Go.

Sounds like with the windows down in the car, that will never happen again. This eight-year-old little girl is dead. Why? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Take a listen to our Dave Mack at CrimeOnline.com. On August 29th, Odessa, Texas police officers respond to a medical call at 1 50 p.m. at the home of 44-year-old Daniel Schwartz and his wife, 34-year-old Ashley Schwartz. The Schwartzes tell officers that they are the guardians for eight-year-old Jalen. Jalen is the purpose of the call. Police are told that Jalen has been jumping on the trampoline for an extended period of time without taking any break, right up to the point where she appears to have suffered some type of seizure and is now unresponsive. With me, an all-star panel to break it down and put it back

together again. Let me introduce you to them. First of all, former prosecutor, now defense attorney in multiple jurisdictions across the U.S. Joining me out of the Atlanta jurisdiction right now, Daryl Cohen, Dr. Debbie Jaffe Ellis, psychologist, adjunct professor, Columbia University at DebbieJaffeEllis.com. Former police chief, Johns Creek. Joining me, Chris Byers, 25 years on the force, now private investigator and polygrapher at Chris Byers Investigations and Polygraph.com. Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, now the star on a new hit, Poisonous Liaisons on the True Crime Network, Joseph Scott Morgan. But first, to the lead news anchor for WDBO Orlando, joining me now, Ray Caputo. Ray, let me understand. I want to take this from A to Z.

There's a 911 call. Police arrive. They're in Odessa. And it's about 2 o'clock in the afternoon. You know, that's hot. 1.50 p.m. in Odessa to a man and his wife. They tell the officers eight-year-old Jalen has had some kind of seizure jumping on the trampoline. What can you tell me about Odessa, Texas? What do we know about Odessa? Well, Nancy, like you said, it is hot in the summer. It's western Texas. And, you know, not only does it get hot, but then, you know, above the average temperature,

sometimes you get something called a heat index where it just feels hotter. So, you know, it goes without saying. Wait, wait, wait. What did you say about a heat index where it just feels hotter. So, you know, it goes without saying. Wait, wait, wait. What did you say about a heat index where it feels hotter? Because I know about, for instance, having lived in New York so long, it may be 36 degrees outside, but with the wind chill factor, it feels like it's 26. I didn't realize that applied to heat as well. What are you talking

about? Well, yeah, absolutely, Nancy. You know, we have something called the humidity and it makes the temperature feel even warmer, but also it depends on what you're around. If you're, you know, I always say that the hottest place, cause I'm in Florida, the hottest place to be is in a parking lot in the summertime. If you're around things that radiate heat too, it just makes it hotter. So we're not just talking about the Texas heat here. We're talking about, you know, it could be upwards of 110 and in some spots even 150 degrees. Whoa. You're just reminding me of when I covered the Jodi Arias trial out in Phoenix, Arizona. It was so hot in the afternoon.

I had the twins with me when I would get out of the courthouse. I once said only lizards could live there, and I've never lived that down. It was so darn hot. I've been looking and researching into Odessa since I found out about Jalen. As you said, it's in West Texas. I know downtown there is a Jack Ben Rabbit, eight foot tall statute of a jack rabbit. But more important than that, I know that there's about 120,000 people that live there a little over that. So this is a small town that's even bigger than the community where I grew up,

but it's still a small town and you don't get many eight-year-old girls dead. When the police got there, was she already dead or did they rush her to the hospital, Ray Caputo? Nancy, she was unresponsive. She was having seizures, which is what happens when you're out in the heat too much. But she was unresponsive and then they rushed her to a hospital in Birmingham, which wasn't too far away. But, yeah, she was not responsive when he showed up. Having seizures. Hold on to you, Justice Scott Morgan, death investigator.

So you can get so hot you go into seizures? Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely, Nancy. It actually affects the brain with this loss of water. And there's any number of other things that are going to happen. You're going to have vomiting. Is this like a heat stroke? Yeah, commonly.

That's kind of the vernacular that's used with it. But, yeah, it is a hypothermic death or hyperthermic death where your body is trying to regulate itself to maintain that 98.6. It's not just about a fever. It's about the external influences that are going on here. And this is horrible. I'll tell you one thing about Odessa, Texas. Ain't no trees out there, that's for sure. So there's no place to hunt for shade. Let me understand what happened to Jalen. Now, you know, one year before we had children, I gave David a trampoline for Christmas. And whenever I would fly home from New York, the first thing I would do, we'd go jump on

the trampoline, or I would anyway. And, you know, at night sometimes we'd go out there and lay there and look up at the stars. Then we had to get the insurance renewed and they said, you have a trampoline? Yeah. Bye bye. So we had to get rid of the trampoline. It was only, fast forward, years later, Joe Scott Morgan, that after much begging from the twins and against my legal judgment, we got another trampoline and the twins jump on it a lot. So my question is, I don't understand exactly how that would factor into her going into seizures. The fact that she's jumped on a trampoline in the heat,

how, I mean, how long would you have to jump in that heat before you would start having seizures? And why does your body go into seizures? What is a seizure exactly? Well, the seizure actually takes place in the brain itself. There is actually, there's a control center within the brain. And once that begins to shut down, as a result of, we have a loss of water and also those basic elements that we need to survive, like electrolytes, those things actually control the electrolytes themselves actually control the rhythm of the heart. They control our synapses within our brain. So, OK, you know what? Just right there, right there.

Joe Scott, how many times have I asked you to talk regular people talk? What's an electrolyte and what is a synapse? communicate it. They literally fire off electrolytes that are contained many times within water that flows through our body. How many times do we hear about remaining hydrated throughout anything that we do, day in and day out? And with the balance of the electrolytes in the body, this maintains this kind of perfect calm in our body at all times. As we begin to lose the water through the salts that are contained within the water and the electrolytes, conversely, our body gets out of whack. And so you can't compensate for this without slowing down, cooling off, and taking on water. And this did not happen in this case. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Guys, we're talking about a little eight-year-old girl, Jalen Schwartz, dead in the heat in Odessa, Texas, on her trampoline. Now, how did it happen? Didn't her body send her signals? I'm thirsty. I'm hot. I've got to go in. Why didn't this little girl notice?

I'm hot. I need water. I got to get off the trampoline and go in the house. Take a listen to Tatum Guinn at News West 9. Police found the girl dead after responding to a call at a home on Locust Avenue. Investigators say the girl was punished and not allowed to eat breakfast. They add that she was required to jump on a trampoline without stopping for an extended period of time

and was also not allowed to drink any water because she wasn't jumping. An autopsy report says of her death as homicide. The little girl didn't come down off the trampoline for water or to quit jumping in the heat. Well over 100 degrees because mommy and daddy wouldn't let her listen to dave mack crime online by the time odessa texas police officers arrive at the home of daniel and ashley schwartz eight-year-old jaylen is already

dead officers are told that Jalen has been jumping on the trampoline without stopping. The investigation reveals that Jalen was being punished. She was not allowed to eat breakfast and she was required to jump on the trampoline without stopping. According to their police report, she had been jumping for an extended period of time. Digging deeper, police discover the little girl was not allowed to drink any water because she had to stop jumping on the trampoline to stop and drink water, and she was not allowed to stop jumping. These two people, Daniel Schwartz, 44, Ashley Schwartz, 34,

need to burn in hell a little while before they start rotting in hell. Can you even imagine putting your child out in 110 degree heat, forcing them to jump, no breakfast, and as they turn redder and redder in the face and need water, you won't let them come down. Daryl Cohen, former prosecutor, now defense attorney, you've handled a lot of cases, but I guarantee you I would take a bite out of these people's rear end and not let go until I had them in jail for life behind bars without parole.

Give me any possible defense. Nancy, you know I like to fight with you, and I normally disagree with you. But in this instance, these people, the word despicable does not explain what their actions are. I will tell you what I would do as a prosecutor. I know what you'd do. Because I don't know what to do. I can see you right now coming down the long hallway in the Fulton County Courthouse to annex where all the new courtrooms are with your tail dragging between your feet coming right at me trying to cut a deal. You know that's what you do. I can see it on your face by the end of the hallway.

I know what you'd want. Absolutely, because there is no defense. And any jury that has an opportunity to pass a judgment based upon the evidence will destroy these people. And I will tell you this. If they were to be incarcerated, and they will be, then the prison population will take care of the would-be death penalty. You always say that. Jailhouse justice. Really? The only time to you, Chris Byers, former chief of police, Johns Creek,

now private investigator and polygrapher, the only times I've seen jailhouse justice is when somebody killed Jeff Dahmer behind bars. I think that was in Wisconsin. After he murdered and ate God only knows how many people. He got killed behind bars. And then there was this priest that molested all

these little boys. And guess who he met behind bars? One of his victims. He got killed. I don't really hear of that much jailhouse justice. Would you like to correct Daryl Cohen or am I taking you on too? Because I'm happy to do that, Chief Byers. Happy. No, I'll take Daryl on a little bit on that. Yeah, no, justice needs to happen here, but it doesn't need to depend on what happens behind bars. There's some serious justice that needs to be administered to these people because it's absolutely one of the most sickening things that I've ever heard. I can tell you as a police officer, responding to something like that,

and everybody thinks that we're robots, but we're moms and dads and aunts and uncles. And in my 25 years of law enforcement, the cases that stick out in my mind the most, the ones that I really remember, the ones involving children. So there's some serious justice that needs to be delved out in this.

You know, he just says something really smart, Chief Byers. I'd like to point out it's not the first time you bombed me with a gem of wisdom. We shouldn't rely on inmates behind bars for jailhouse justice. Take a listen to Dave Mack, CrimeOnline.com. The Odessa Police Department investigation into the death of eight-year-old Jalen revealed that while the little girl was being forced to jump on the trampoline without stopping and without benefit of water, the temperature of the trampoline read to be approximately 110 degrees and the ground around the trampoline approximately 150 degrees. This is according to the Odessa Police Department

report of the event. According to AccuWeather.com, the high temperature in Odessa on August 29th was 103 degrees. Daniel and Ashley Schwartz had been raising eight-year-old Jalen as well as her sister Jade. Jade was removed from the home and placed in foster care after the death of Jalen. I found something out. Well, actually, Jackie found it out for me. Ashley Swartz, the mom, and for those of you listening, I'm using air quotas, the mom of Jalen is the stepsister of Jalen's bio mom. So for whatever reason, I know that Jalen, eight-year-old little Jalen and her sister, Jade, are there in the home for a temporary period of time. For all I know, it's a week, it's a month, it's a year. I don't know. I just know they're in the stepsister and her husband's home and they're the ones punishing her. Did you hear

that? Joe Scott, I'm going to circle back to you about it being 150 degrees around the trampoline. But let me go to Dr. Debbie Jaffe-Ellis, psychologist, professor at Columbia University. Dr. Debbie, what is a sadist? Well, it's a person who is disassociated from basic reality and lacking a moral compass and often driven by a need to control and or has the inability to handle frustration, impatience, and anger in a healthy way. Didn't you leave out the part where they like to torture and hurt other people? Did I miss that? Or did she just say something about they don't know how to deal with their frustration

in a healthy way? Will you please, Dr. Debbie, stop sugarcoating every time I ask you a question? What does a sadist do for fun? Let me put it, let me rephrase, Your Honor. What does a sadist do for fun? Well, I'm not disagreeing that some people who act in sadistic ways do that. Do what? Do what? Say it. What do sadists do? They act in ways that inflict suffering on others.

They act with utter cruelty. They act with utter cruelty. They act with brutality. And I'm not trying to sugarcoat anything, Nancy, but if we want to live with anger and resentment... Didn't you just say sadists can't deal with frustration in a healthy way? That could be me kicking the trash can. The Oxford Language Dictionary defines sadist as a person who derives pleasure, sometimes sexual gratification, pleasure from inflicting pain or humiliation on others. Apparently at Columbia University, where Dr. Debbie Jaffe Ellis is an adjunct professor, they say a sadist is someone who can't express frustration in a healthy way. BS! No, no, no.

You said that. I speak for me, not for the university. Okay, all right. Let me rephrase. In Dr. Debbie Jaffe Ellis land, a sadist is someone who can't deal with frustration in a healthy way. But from the little bit I know, now I'm just a JD, I'm not an MD, I'm not a psychologist, but sadism, a sadist inflicts pain and they enjoy it. They inflict pain on somebody else. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We are talking about an eight-year-old little girl dead. And according to me and other news outlets,

a sadistic couple kill an eight-year-old girl by making her jump on a trampoline during blistering hot heat. That's what the police say. Daniel Schwartz, 44, and his 34-year-old wife, Ashley, punished Jalen on a roasting August day, ground temperature, 150 degrees Fahrenheit. And I am looking directly at a news report describing her last moments. It's amazing to me. Guys, listen to what we learn in the autopsy. This is Brett Barney, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. The autopsy performed on Jalen

concludes the eight-year-old died from dehydration. The girl was forced to continuously jump on a trampoline as punishment by her guardians. Police affidavits include comments on how it was not uncommon for the family to use the trampoline as a form of punishment for misbehaving. The investigation reveals that Jalen was forced to jump without stopping for, quote, an extended period of time. As yet, we don't know how long she had been on the trampoline. Jalen was also not given water because she would have to stop jumping to drink it. The final autopsy report lists the manner of death as homicide and cause of death to be dehydration. Dr. Debbie Jaffe Ellis. Rematch.

Round two. Right. Back in the ring, Dr. Debbie. Yes, ma'am. Did you hear what Brett Barney just reported? They had done this before. This was a form of punishment. This is how they, one of the ways that I know of, they punished this little girl. Like in your profession, Nancy, I don't come to any definite conclusion until, unless I have solid evidence. Now, I don't disagree with your definition of sadism. I absolutely do not. I also agree that these parents had better have just consequences. But I also want to say that it may have been that they got enjoyment or, and this is different,

it's not the same, an absolutistic dictator-like need to control coupled with an inability to handle frustration. So I'm not totally disagreeing with you. You're back on the inability to handle frustration. You're back on it. She's dead, Dr. Debbie. The little girl, eight years old. Didn't you hear her singing Let It Go from Frozen? She's dead.

That's never going to happen again. And they had used this form of punishment before, forcing her to jump on the trampoline without ceasing to Ray Caputo. I didn't realize they had done this to her before. Yeah. And Nancy, it's completely astonishing. If you grow up in a colder climate, you know not to send your kids out without mittens and boots. These folks, they live in Texas. It goes without saying, you know, to not put your kid out in hot weather without taking proper precautions. I mean, every year here in Florida, we do news stories when summer starts for the kids because it's to keep them safe. So they did this before, And if you understand how the

weather works in these hot climates, I mean, it's beyond negligent. These two are really in for it when they hit the courts, because everybody that lives in Texas knows, you know, how preposterous it would be to do what they did and not just once, but over and over. And that, Daryl Cohen, let me help you with your defense. This is what they're going to argue. They were just negligent. They didn't know that she could go into convulsions and die. But isn't it true, Daryl Cohen, that under the law in every state in the United States, the law says that it, the law presumes you intend the natural consequences of your act. For instance, if I take a gun, 38 loaded and pointed at Jackie right here

in the studio and pull the trigger as she dies, I can't then say, Oh, I was just trying to scare her. I didn't know she's gonna die no the law presumes this is the black and white letter of the law I'm making this up I've heard judges charge this a hundred times read it verbatim to a jury the law presumes you intend the natural consequence of your act you put a child you refuse food and water the night before, breakfast, water, nothing, force her to jump at 1.50 p.m. there in Odessa, Texas, 150 degrees around that trampoline. What do you think is going to happen? The law presumes you intend her to have a stroke. Nancy, you're right.

The law does presume that. But as a defense lawyer, if they were my clients, the first thing I would do was have them psychologically examined. Oh, dear Lord. The second thing I would do would have them pay as much penance as possible. I think they will be. But if they're out on bond, they need to do community service. They need to get psychological counseling and they need to be able to say we were trying to punish, not kill. We realize now that we were wrong. We will.

We've lost this child forever. We were so wrong. I don't think it's going to work, but I don't see what else they could do other than get on their knees and beg. Second verse. Same as the first, because let me also remind you, I'm really embarrassed for you Daryl Cohen since you obviously are not embarrassed for yourself let me remind you also that the law reads and this is a black and white letter of the law I don't even have to look it up I've heard it so many times I can tell you verbatim that one may immediately regret the deed, but that does not diminish the act. They can say, I'm sorry,

all they want to. They can cry me a river. It doesn't matter. I mean, let's get real. Joe Scott, what did this little girl go through? With me, Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator, author, star of Poisonous Liaisons. I could go on and on, but I want to get back to Jalen. What did this child, eight years old, as I'm sitting here, a friend girl of mine sent me a picture of Lucy and her little daughter together at Legoland. And they're doing all kinds of crazy poses. And she was about eight years old in that picture. I cannot imagine what my life would be without her or John David. I can't even imagine what reason I would even have to live anymore. What did this child go through, Joe Scott? Let's just lay it out for Daryl Cohen. Yeah, let me ask you a question real quick, Nancy.

What color generally is the canvas that a trampoline is made out of? Black or dark green. Black. That's right. And we know that in science that black does not reflect light. It does not reflect heat. What does it do? It absorbs it so not only is this child dancing about in this horrific

macabre set of circumstances on a surface that probably to her feels like hell itself she's also surrounded almost like being in a convection oven where the heat is swirling around her little body remember Remember what Dave said, 150 degree ground temperature. That means what does heat do? Heat radiate. So it's actually coming up off of the ground. And then she's surrounded by the ambient temperature, which is about 110. You combine all of this and listen, there is no way, there is no way under the sun that you're going to convince me that they didn't know what they were doing. Listen, the night before, the night before all of this happened, they hadn't even fed her. They had withheld nourishment from the child.

And there's a distinct pattern that they had done this over and over. You know what this reminds me of? It reminds me of little Cooper Harris. I was just thinking that. His daddy weaponized heat. These people, these people weaponized heat against this child. Now, I don't know if they're sadists. Maybe they are. But I know this. This little girl is dead.

And they sat there. They didn't just say go outside and jump on the trampoline they sat there and watched as she dwindled you know that because of the dehydration nancy that if this child wanted to physically demonstrate through tears that she's upset that she's terrified you know she wouldn't even be capable of crying? Do you know that that's one of the symptomologies with dehydration, particularly fatal dehydration? You can't even generate tears.

Let that sink in just for a moment. Her skin loses elasticity. It literally shrivels up in these moments. There are even some circumstances where the eyes will begin to kind of retract into the sockets. It's a horrific, horrific way to die.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We were talking about the death of an 8-year-old little girl, Jalen Schwartz, at the hands of Daniel and Ashley Schwartz. Take a listen to CBS 7 News. Daniel and Ashley Schwartz were slapped with charges after Odessa police found an eight-year-old girl named Jalyn dead in August. The victim's family members tell us that Schwartz's were her guardians, not parents. A member of Jalyn's family also gave us these photos of the young girl. Now, police investigations show Jalyn had been deprived, not being allowed to eat breakfast or drink water, and was made to jump on a trampoline without stopping in over 100

degree heat. She died of dehydration, according to Odessa police. Our friends reporting at CBS, this sadist couple now being charged in her death. This isn't the first time a child has been forced to exercise till death. Take a listen to a case I covered on HLN. Joining us is Jonathan Hardison, WBRC. Jonathan, what happened? Well, Nancy, here's what investigators are telling us. Last Friday afternoon, about 3 o'clock, nine-year-old Savannah Hardin comes home from elementary school with her grandmother. She was fine when she left school.

She gets back to her house. And that's when investigators say the grandmother discovered that at some point, we're not sure exactly when this was. Maybe it was Friday. Maybe it was the day before. The grandmother found out that Savannah had had a candy bar. Now, she was not supposed to have chocolate, according to because Savannah had a bladder condition that they believed chocolate could exacerbate or make worse. So to punish her, according to investigators, Joyce Gerard began making her grandchild run around the house. And this continued, they say, for about three hours until she collapsed into a seizure about 645. That's when her stepmom, 26-year-old Jessica Harden, who, by the way, at the time was nine months pregnant,

called 911 and says, my stepdaughter is having a seizure. Medics come out to the scene in rural Etowah County, northeast of Birmingham, take her to a local hospital. They decide she's in bad enough condition. They're going to airlift her to Children's Hospital in Birmingham. And that is where she died. Because this little girl ate a candy bar, Santa was just nine years old. Her grandmother made her carry an armful of logs, I guess for their fireplace, and run around and around and around the house while she and stepmother, the evil stepmother, sat on the porch and smoked cigarettes and watched Savannah run until she dies, goes into seizures. And I want you to hear

what the grandmother told the bus driver. Take a listen. This takes evil step-mommy to a whole new level. Step-mommy and grandma force a nine-year-old little girl to run until she literally drops dead. Tonight, grandma caught on tape telling the girl's school bus driver she'll, quote, run the girl until she, quote, can't run no more. And this is all over a candy bar? While these two grown women sit by lounging? Stepmommy actually on her iPhone and laptop

while the girl dies, the nine-year-old girl crawling finally, crawling on all fours, begging she-bitch from hell to let her stop the grandmother and the mother show no mercy. That was me on HLN covering the death of little nine-year-old Savannah Hardin. And, you know, now we see history

repeating itself with Jalen, eight-year-old Jalen Schwartz. The mom kicked back, tapping through her iPhone, probably on Facebook, laughing and joking as the little girl literally begs to stop. Now at a point she's crawling. Well, it doesn't end there. Take a listen to this.

We are getting reports that your son has been found in your basement. Sir? Mr. Bothell, are you... What? Yeah, we are getting reports that your son has been found alive in your basement. What? Yes, that's what... If you could hand me that wire very quickly. Yeah, we're getting that right now from...

Yeah, how could your son be alive in your basement I have I Now, this is just a report that we are hearing out of Detroit that we're trying to confirm. Everybody in New York, please get on it. Let me know when we get Charlie Langton from WWJ. Sir, did you check your basement? Oh, you know why the little boy disappeared? And he had been going down this corridor surreptitiously that would connect to other people's basements and storage areas because he was forced to exercise. Listen to my friends at my old TV home, CNN. Listen.

According to two court petitions filed in juvenile court, Charlie told investigators he was forced to get up at 5 a.m. by his father and complete 100 push-ups, 200 sit-ups, 25 arm curls, and thousands of revolutions on the elliptical trainer twice a day, seven days a week. The 12-year-old said he had to complete the grueling routine in under an hour or he'd have to do it again. Charlie said sometimes he couldn't finish because he was in too much pain, pain allegedly caused by his father hitting him with a PVC pipe on his feet. Police found Charlie in his own basement two weeks ago,

crouched down, barricaded behind a stack of boxes and a 55-gallon barrel. The 12-year-old seemed excited to see police who say he was hungry. HLN's Nancy Grace broke the news to his father, Charles Bothell, that his son was found live on air. We are getting reports that your son has been found alive in your basement. What? That little child lived

after being tortured and forced to exercise. Did you hear that? Starting his regimen at 5 a.m. Hiding out for weeks on end. The parents had reported him missing when in fact, he may have saved his own life Hiding out for weeks on end, the parents had reported him missing, when in fact, he may have saved his own life by hiding out in this labyrinth of connected basements and storage areas underground.

Because he didn't want to do those brutal, tortuous workouts. Now we have Jalen Schwartz dead to Ray Caputo, lead news anchor WDBO Orlando. I understand the two have been charged with murder. Yes, Nancy, capital murder. And of course, you, Chris Byers, former police chief, John Screek. We know what that means. Capital murder. Yeah, absolutely. Facing death penalty, life in prison without parole, which is exactly what they should be facing, the death penalty. Man, you're not kidding. I'm not going to argue death penalty wrong or right because that is up to a jury to decide. But if you're going to have the death penalty, think about it. Yep,

this is exactly what it's for. Have you ever been to a scene, I know you have, Chief, where there has been so much child cruelty, the child dies? Yes, I have. And again, like I said earlier, those are the cases that just stick with you. There's a couple children's faces that I literally have nightmares about still and wake up seeing because those scenes are just so absolutely brutal and heartbreaking. That is exactly what this case is. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off.

Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.