Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - 911 call released: Kidnapped teen Jayme Closs tells dog walker: 'You gotta help me!'

Episode Date: January 15, 2019

The 911 call recording of a woman reporting that Jayme Closs was in her home reveals the dramatic moment the Wisconsin teen was finally safe 87 days after her parents were murdered and she was kidnapped. Nancy Grace listens to the call and discusses what was learned at kidnap-murder suspect Jake Patterson's first court appearance. Grace's panel includes forensics expert Karen Smith, Atlanta juvenile judge & lawyer Ashley Willcott, forensic psychiatrist Dr. Daniel Bober, Southern California prosecutor Wendy Patrick, and syndicated radio host David Mack. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hi, I have a young lady at my house right now, and she says her name is Jamie Closs. Okay. Have you seen her photo, ma'am? Yes. It is her. I 100% think it is her. Okay. 100%. Does it look like she's going to run?

No. She's sitting down. She's relaxing. Okay. Hang on just a second. What's your name? Yep. What's your name, ma'am?

Kristen Kaczynski. Kristen, how do you spell your last name? K-A-S-I-N-S-K-A-S. Okay, did she show up walking? Yeah, a neighbor just walked up with her to our house and asked us to call 911. Okay, hang on just a second. Are you cold? Do you need a blanket or anything?

Okay. Do you need anything to drink or water or anything? Okay. Have you watched the show, Lincoln Mouse? It's their favorite. This is my son Lincoln. That's why we like Lincoln Mouse. And that's Carly.

Christian, I'm going to keep you on the line, okay? Okay, yeah, sounds good. I can barely hear this lady. I got him. You'll be ready to go. Ready to go? Like, no, look, if somebody comes to this house, you'll be here. I do, I do, I do.

It is amazing when the 911 dispatch hears Jamie Closs is sitting in my den. She seems to ask all types of inane questions. It's a miracle. Jamie, 13-year-old, kidnapped from her own home, sees her mom shot dead in the head as mom holds her in a bear hug, barricaded in the bathroom, in the bathtub. Her dad lying dead at the front door as she's dragged out with hands and ankles taped. In the last hours, her alleged kidnapper in court.

We want justice. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. You are hearing a portion of the 911 call made by a family not too far from that remote cabin where Jamie Closs was held prisoner for 88 days. Let's take a listen to more of that 911 call. Kristen, is the neighbor that walked her up, is she still there? Yes, she is okay we got yeah

can you ask the neighbor did the female just walk up to her house or how did she come across and I'm like, I feel like I'm going to die. I think I'm sleeping in front of that. I think it's the same thing. That's here. But no. I don't know. My name is Jeannie Nutter. I was, we have a cabin up here in Gordon on open stone. Okay, ma'am. Ma'am. And I was walking.

Yes? Okay. Can I just get your name? Jeannie Nutter, N-U-T-T-E-R. So how did she come up upon your cabin? I was walking my dog and we were almost home and she was walking towards me crying, saying, you've got to help me, you've got to help me. Okay.

So I didn't want to go into my cabin because it's too close to Pat's house. And she said her name is Jamie Closs? Yep. And when I walked into this house, they recognized her immediately from four years. Okay. house they recognized her immediately from you are hearing the 911 call where Jamie cloths was reported alive joining me forensics expert Karen Smith judge and lawyer you can find her at Ashley Wilcott calm Ashley Wilcott renowned forensic psychiatrist dr. Daniel Bober California prosecutor, no stranger to a courtroom, Wendy Patrick joining me,

Alan Duke in L.A., Jackie Howard in the studio, and right now to CrimeOnline.com, investigative reporter, syndicated talk show host, Dave Mack. Dave Mack, it's almost too much to take in that this girl lived, the girl that lived. I know you've read or watched Harry Potter. He's always described as the boy who lived. This is the girl who lived because statistically it's virtually impossible in a stranger on child abduction for the child to live past 24 hours, much less for 88 days.

Yesterday, her alleged kidnapper in court, what happened? In court, we actually got our first glimpse of the monster answering a couple of quick questions. Yes, no, that was about it. But we did find everything else that happened in the lead-up to, did he know Jamie Closs? What did he know about the family? Which we found out horrific information

from the get-go of how he plotted and planned. The depth of depravity that he went through in his planning was just incredible. I don't want to say remarkable. I don't know. That's all in the criminal documents. I noticed in court, which has just occurred. This guy, Jake Patterson, in court, calm and cool as a pickle, there with his lawyer looking right into the camera, answering clearly and coherently. Meanwhile, his father and brother Eric are in court, and the father is crying out loud, sobbing out loud. Ashley Wolcott, you're a judge and lawyer what do you make of

him being so composed as he is being formally charged with two counts of murder and one count of kidnapping oh god Nancy this is just horrible I don't understand it's like he thinks it's another day a walk in the park no big deal going to the to the grocery store. I'm composed. I did it. Here I am in court. Yep, I planned, I plotted, and I stole this child and killed her parents. I don't get it. You know, too, Wendy Patrick, you're a veteran prosecutor in the California jurisdiction. It amazes me, and we're going to talk about what Dave Mack, talk has just brought up all the detail in the criminal complaint we learned all that detail from him from the alleged perp Patterson but what's so odd Wendy is that he went through so much pain to not leave behind DNA evidence or fingerprints he shaved his head he

washed himself he took a shower he wore two pair of gloves he covered his face he went about bought a balaclava one of those it's basically a hood you see ninjas wear them and all you can see it's their eyes and he shows up he disarms the dome light inside of his maroon Ford Taurus. He extinguishes the light in the trunk. He even gets rid of the emergency cord that glows in the dark in the trunk so you can get out of the trunk if you're trapped. He does all of that.

But then when cops sit him down, he sings like a bird, Wendy, in very horrifying detail, as Dave Mack said. What's that about? Was he proud? And was he acting proud of his crimes in court? You know, Nancy, it seems almost like that's the case. We do see that in certain types of crimes where somebody appears to go over and above to clear up their tracks and make sure they leave no evidence. And then on the other side, when they're finally caught, they go into grueling detail regarding the level of sophistication and planning, as you say, as if it's something to be proud of. Now, obviously, he was caught, so we didn't go far enough. But I often wonder, when you look at the way that Jamie escaped, it didn't appear that

it was as difficult as you might think. then you start to wonder what was this man's motive all along and that's one of the things that has fascinated or I should say captivated the criminal law community right now to figure out how could somebody possibly do something like this and then as you say not only remain cool as a cucumber in court but be so forthcoming about everything he did. Dr. Daniel Bober, you're the forensic psychiatrist. I'd like you to analyze what you observed in the courtroom. Nancy, I think it's about power. It's about control.

It's about, you know, narcissistic traits and wanting to talk about the things that you've done, almost like you're celebrating a trophy. So I think a lot of that plays into it. You know, I swear, I think he was acting proud. To Karen Smith, you're the forensics expert joining us. Karen, pride is one thing, but covering up forensics is a whole other can of worms, Karen Smith. That's correct.

There's plenty of forensic evidence, and unfortunately, at this point, it's going to be up to the shotgun shells that were left behind, possibly shoe prints and tire tracks. It is limited, but there is going to be that were left behind, possibly shoe prints and tire tracks. It is limited, but there is going to be forensic evidence left behind. Do you expect Jamie's escape that she got to break out of the home or that she was able to let herself out of the door? The criminal complaint indicates that she was able to push herself out from under the bed and that she put on Patterson's shoes. They were on the wrong feet, but she was able then.

She walked out the front door and saw Ms. Hutter and at that point made the statements that she was in need of help. He indicated that if he had been stopped by police, it was likely he was going to shoot at police officers with the three shotgun shells that he had remaining. Kept the shotgun shell inside of his house for two weeks in case the police came. He remained in hiding after abducting Jamie for 88 days before he was apprehended. Your Honor, all of this indicates the defendant is a flight risk,

a danger to the public, and he is unlikely to further return for further court proceedings without an exceedingly high cash bail. The state asks the court to consider Section 969.01-4. Proper considerations for the court to consider in setting bail would include the number and gravity of the offenses, the potential penalty the defendant faces, and whether the alleged acts were violent in nature. All of these factors weigh in favor of the state's requested bail. You are hearing part of the court proceedings that have just gone down with this guy, as I call him, Jake Patterson in court for his first hearing being formally charged. But what we really learned, where we really learned all of the details regarding how he allegedly kidnapped the 13-year-old girl after just spotting her boarding the school bus. That's how he found out where she lived. He survived two days at a cheese factory at that job. He had worked one day at a turkey, a Genio turkey plant.

So on his second day, we think, working at the cheese factory, he was driving along. He was behind a school bus and he saw a red-headed girl getting on the bus clearly coming straight from her home because he knew where she lived so the bus likely stopped very rural area stopped at her driveway and she got on and he said he knew at that moment that was the girl he was going to kidnap. And one of the things that is so scary about that to veteran California prosecutor Wendy Patrick is that we arm ourselves every day with the knowledge that,

well, I've done everything I can do to protect my child. And the Internet trolls and the haters and the naysayers, they were all about, oh, she must have been speaking to somebody online. Maybe she had something to do with her parents' death. Maybe this was part of her plan. Or she was allowed to be on social media and she was targeted. It was none of that. It was nothing the parents did.

It was nothing that she, Jamie, did. It was all him. It was as random as him pulling up behind a school bus on the way to his job at a cheese factory. And that's how it happened, Wendy. You know what, Nancy? And that makes it really one of those old fashioned crime stories that you're right. The first thing we do is we jump to conclusions. Well, this is somebody she met online. This must have been somebody she was secretly corresponding with when this was something that could have happened 100 years ago, this is one of the reasons we have Neighborhood Watch, and it is a reminder to

parents that not only the good guys are watching. This is just one of those stories that strikes fear into the heart of any parent because it could have been any child. You're absolutely right. Straight out to Ashley Wilcott joining me, judge, lawyer. You can find her at ashleywilcott.com. You know, another thing I think, aside from the haters that were trying to somehow blame Jamie herself, I think it also makes us feel insulated because people like to say, oh, I would never let my child on what TikTok tock or what what is that site you told me about musical or whatever or um all the different family chat rooms and and texting i would never let my child do that or i never let my child post a photo you know what we're no different from jamie claus's parents

not at all we are not insulated because we never know when a guy like Jake Patterson is going to come along behind their school bus. You know, that's the scary, frightening thing. And I think it's a reminder, as you just heard from a prosecutor, parents have got to be diligent and recognize and realize any scenario is possible anymore. It can be a random freak crime that affects your family and your child. Now, keep in mind, Nancy, that's not the norm, so to speak, right? Typically, it's by someone that you know, but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. So you have to be diligent as a parent, not to blame, not to cast blame, not to throw stones, but instead to say it could be anything. It could be random. It could be somebody I know, and we're going to look at every scenario because anything is possible anymore.

To Dave Mack, syndicated talk show host, joining us with all the details. Yesterday, we saw him in court, his head still shaved. And, you know, when he looked up at that camera just head on, I just wanted to slap that arrogant look right off his face. Oh, if I could have just got my fingers around his neck. But what I really learned, where I really learned all my facts was from documents. Details of Jamie's kidnap emerged in a criminal complaint just released just before Patterson's first court appearance there in Berrien, Wisconsin. What did we learn from those documents, Dave? First of all, let's talk about how he sings to the cops like a bird about how well planned out the whole thing was. Explain. He was bragging,

Nancy. He was so proud of what he had pulled off. You know, the part that gets me about this is that other than the random nature is that he said that he was looking for someone to take Nancy. It just happened to me that he saw her. He said he knew when he saw her that that was who he was going to take, meaning this was something he'd been concocting for a while. He had plotted and planned so much, all of the forensics where he had wiped down the shotgun shells so that they wouldn't have a fingerprint. He'd shaved himself and bathed and all those things so that he wouldn't leave nothing behind. It's one of the things, if you remember, when we first started covering this, that there was so little evidence. There was four minutes in the house and that was it.

He actually claimed that he had planned it so much he'd been to the house two other times prior to abducting Jamie. And the first time there were too many cars there. The second time he saw lights in the house and people moving around. It was the third time, 1253 in the morning when he drives into the driveway, turns the lights off of his car and parks at the end of the driveway. Jamie said that she heard her dog barking, saw somebody walking up the driveway and went and woke her dad up dad goes to the door and what we heard in or what we read in these court papers is that patterson was standing outside and mr claus said show me a badge when he didn't do that he shot him back it up back it up back it up karen smith forensics expert

i think the whole thing the scenario that night night started in Jamie's home with Jamie, because according to these court documents, I've combed over them with a fine tooth comb. She is the one that woke up first because her dog that was sleeping in her room started barking. She sees someone pulling in the seat, somebody pulling in the driveway. She goes and gets her dad and mom. The dad goes to the door. Is that the way you understood it, Karen Smith? Yeah, that's exactly the way that I understood it. She was the one that woke her dad and mom the dad goes to the door is that the way you understood it karen smith yeah that's exactly the way that i understood it she was the one that woke her dad up the dad went to investigate at the front door and then everything um and you know karen smith i know

it may not be pure forensics which is your forte but how many cases have cracked wide open because of a dog lots of them dogs are a huge and a a huge indicator. Even when somebody's on the run, you listen for the dogs. When somebody's running away, you got one running, you listen for the dogs. And how many times have you heard the dog never barked? Translation, it was somebody the dog knew. Not in this case, the dog was barking his head off. But Dave Mack, that's not necessarily contrary to what you were saying. You said the dad goes to the door and according to Patterson's own statement, he says he pulled up and he could see the dad inside standing at a window with a flashlight

looking out into the yard trying to figure out why was the dog barking, what was happening, and Dave Mack, what happened then? That's when Patterson says that the flashlight was being shown out the front door. That's when Mr. Patterson, well, Patterson goes to the door. Mr. Kloss then says, show me a badge. That's when Kloss, he was trying to open the door. Patterson was trying to open the door. He couldn't get in, so he shot through the ornamental glass pane in the door, striking Mr. Kloss in the

face. He then had to shoot the deadbolt on the front door to make entry into the home. Wait did you hear that right there? Kloss made no move on Patterson at all. Jamie's dad was standing at the door looking out and this guy admits he shot through the crystal panes of the door killing Jamie's dad with one bullet. Hi, Nancy Grace here. Have you ever googled yourself, your neighbors, somebody at work, a crush? 57% of Americans admit to keeping an eye on their own online reputation 46 admit to using the internet to look up somebody from their past but google and facebook the tip of the iceberg when it comes to finding personal information there's an innovative new website called truth finder it's now revealing the full scoop on millions of Americans. Truthfinder can search through hundreds of millions of public records in a matter of minutes.

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How did he know exactly where she lived? That's stated in the criminal complaint. He was driving, I believe it was either to or home from work, saw a school bus, saw her, and had made the decision at that point that he was going to take her. And he watched her go from the school bus into her home? I don't think that's specifically stated in the criminal complaint, but that's where he observed her. When did he see her get on that?

The law of the criminal complaint doesn't say that. How long had he been in the locker room targeting her, I guess? Again, I'm not prepared to answer that at this time. How important is it for you to get a conviction in this case given the national media scope of everything here? It's extremely important. It's extremely important because we are seeking justice. We have two parents of a 13 year old who are deceased. We have a 13-year-old who was abducted for 88 days against her will forcibly. It doesn't get any more serious than that. And I assure you that these prosecutors here, all of us, want justice for both James and Denise and for Jamie. The shootings were brutal.

Jamie's dad shot dead in the head, there when cops got got to the door they could see his feet and legs patterson by his own statement goes down the hall on the hunt said he was prepared to kill anybody else in that home even if it were a child, to leave no witness behind. He goes to the back. He finds a bathroom door locked. Inside, after kicking the door in, he finds, after ripping the shower curtain off the wall, Jamie in the bathtub in a bear hug being held by her mother. He produces gorilla tape, black gorilla duct tape. He tells the mom to put it across Jamie's mouth when she couldn't do it. He wraps it all the way around Jamie's head. He binds her ankles and her wrists and then turns and with one bullet in front of Jamie, shoots her mother in the head. It's so brutal.

The mom's still sitting up in the bathtub when cops get there, dead, and part of her skull is lying beside her in the bathtub. He drags Jamie out of the home, telling her she's got to walk. He didn't even remember he had bound her ankles together. Forces her in the trunk and drives off. And the irony, Dave Mack, as he's driving away, oncoming, the police car, where Jamie's mom had managed to call 911. They couldn't tell what was going on, and then it went dead.

That's because Patterson, by his own words, ordered her to turn off the cell phone to hang up. That cop was so observant because that cop saw a reddish-colored car, possibly a Taurus, with a tag missing on the front and a white male driving. That was him. That was Jake Patterson, Dave Mack. Jake Patterson had actually pulled off to allow the police vehicles to pass him by. You mentioned that the police officer observed there was no front plate. Not every state requires front and back. This one does. He had, Jake Patterson had planned

this out so much that he'd actually stolen plates from another vehicle and he put one on the rear, failing to put one on the front. This police officer was on his way to that 911 call that was cut off short. They knew there was chaos, but he still took the time to observe all of that. After Patterson had pulled off to allow the squad cars to pass him by and Jamie actually described hearing the sirens, they then proceeded on. It was just pure happenstance that he got away with that one. I see. Wendy Patrick, felony prosecutor out of California.

Defendant states he, quote, put quite a bit of thought into the details of how he was going to abduct JLC, Jamie Closs. On one of the nights prior to his third trip to the Closs home, defendant stated he drove a few miles down the road, county highway near Sirona, and stole license plates off a vehicle in the yard in its yard. Defendant stated he stole the plates because he did not want to get stopped or spotted with his own plates on his car. This was so well thought out. There is no doubt in my mind this is murder one, Wendy. You know, Nancy, you often don't have this detail of a confession so early on. One of the things that the prosecutors and the investigators

are going to look at is to make sure that all of these details match up with the forensics. Because as you said earlier, when there is an amount of bragging to it, I thought of everything, here's what I thought, here's what I did. What's missing, and by the way, this is all going to come out of the sentencing hearing in terms of what does this case deserve, but what's missing so far that everybody's going to want to know is why. What was the purpose of going through all of this? Why was he looking for somebody to abduct? Why did he select Jamie? It is that kind of detail that we're still going to learn, but you're right.

The issue isn't a whodunit but a why. Why in the world would somebody abduct in such a cold-blooded fashion, as you've mentioned, such a beautiful young girl? You know, interesting, Ashley Wilcott, the number one motive for stranger on child kidnap is sex motive. We know that when he got her out of the trunk, and this is by his words, not mine, the little girl was so scared. She was crying and she had urinated all over herself. And he told her to take, to strip, to take off her clothes. And he then later gave her his sister's pajamas there

were no sex assault charges in the indictment however i did notice at the end of court while he was being ordered to stay away from the witnesses and have no contact of any kind with them dna was ordered a dna sample was ordered taken from him what does that mean to you ashley wilcott so nancy in terms of the d, the reason they also, I believe, are ordering or requesting and getting a spina for DNA is because, look, frankly, who knows what legal maneuvers he's going to make once he has an attorney. They may argue that his confession is inadmissible, and there are lots of reasons that argument has valid constitutional rights involved that that could happen so they've got to continue to gather all of the evidence so that if there's any reason his confession is thrown out they can

still prove the case yes he's confessed to a lot of details of what he did but that doesn't mean that he did not sexually assault her it means he did not admit that he did that and so you have to cover all your bases. We don't know what statement she's given to the police yet. Who knows what she said in the horrific experience that she had with this perpetrator. So the DNA test may be to shore up and determine did he also sexually assault her. We all pray not, but no stone unturned to hold him responsible for every single crime he committed. To Dr. Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist, if this was not a sex crime, then what was the motivation of getting the girl, killing two people, being willing to kill others to keep her what? They're under the twin bed of your cabin?

Nancy, some people are just motivated by power and control. It doesn't always include sex, although more often than not it does. But this is a criminal on a whole nother level. This is not someone who just gave into their impulses, but this was someone who was cold, who was calculating, and who made as many attempts as possible to conceal his tracks. You know, the district attorney laid out many reasons why Patterson is a flight risk. Take a listen as we hear the argument in court regarding the bail, the $5 million bail request. He indicated that if he had been stopped by police, it was likely he was going to shoot at police officers with the three shotgun shells that he had remaining., kept the shotgun

shell inside of his house for two weeks in case the police came. He remained in hiding after abducting Jamie for 88 days before he was apprehended. Your Honor, all of this indicates the defendant is a flight risk, a danger to the public, and he is unlikely to further return for further court proceedings without an exceedingly high cash bail. The state asks the court to consider Section 969.01-4. Proper considerations for the court to consider in setting bail would include the number and gravity of the offenses, the potential penalty the defendant faces, and whether the alleged acts were violent in nature. All of these factors weigh in favor of the state's requested bail. Mr. Wright,

the state's recommendation regarding bail? State is asking the court to set cash bail in the amount of $5 million. Mr. Patterson has no ties to Barron County. The allegations in the complaint are that he worked at Saputo Cheese Factory for two days. The only reason other than that for being in Barron County was to kidnap Jamie. State asks the court to look at the charges themselves. He's charged with two counts of first-degree intentional homicide, maximum sentence on each of those counts, life imprisonment, the count of kidnapping, 40 years, and the count of armed burglary, 15 years. The state asks you to consider the efforts he took to conceal conceal himself as alleged in the criminal complaint. The modifications that he made

to his vehicle so the police wouldn't find him. Including stealing license plates on the vehicle near serona putting him on his vehicle before he went to the class residence so that if police did see him they would

not be able to trace his vehicle back to his plates. The fact that he disengaged his dome light to make sure that no one would be able to see him enter or exit his vehicle. Fact that he purchased a mask. Fact that he wiped down shotgun hit the shotgun that was located at his house and the shells that were used

to kill James and Denise by his own words so that no DNA or fingerprints. Would be found. The fact that it is alleged he shaved by his own words so that no DNA or fingerprints would be found. The fact that it is alleged he shaved his face, all of his head hair, and showered before leaving for the Kloss home, so no DNA or fingerprints could be located. The fact that he turned his engine off, headlights off,

to conceal his arrival at the Kloss home. The fact that he had made a decision that he was going to shoot anyone inside that home, including children, because he could not leave behind any eyewitnesses. And let's follow that through to its logical end. Wendy Patrick, no witnesses. He's already killed the mom. The dad was prepared to shoot whoever was in the home in order to get Jamie.

What about what was going to happen when he got tired of her, when he got tired of hiding her under the twin bed? And the mentality of the wording he uses, those neighbors were very right to say, get a gun, because they knew this guy had already killed two people to get Jamie. If he found her when she escaped, wouldn't he kill them too? And wouldn't he have ultimately killed Jamie Closs herself, Wendy? Oh, absolutely, Nancy. You know, this case is something on so many different levels that just goes to show why we take the kind of precautions we do, why we talk to our children

about how dangerous strangers can be and why we try to be as perceptive as we can. God bless that police officer that saw all the detail that he did if everybody behaved that way perhaps we would have seen something earlier for example sometimes you do see the same car seem to be casing a house many perceptive neighbors notice this so you had a lot of red flags here and by his own admission he's teaching us what to look for because you're right that some people will just do away with anybody that could possibly be a witness in court thank goodness we have the the results of the forensic test and other cases to be able to prove these types of crimes. Wendy, do you believe that there will be additional charges? Do you think that is why they ordered a DNA sample taken from him? Well, that's one of the reasons,

but you're also correct in that Jamie's going to be interviewed and there haven't been any indication of sexual assault. But once she's interviewed, they will take what she says into consideration. And absolutely. I mean, the prosecutor was clear there could be other charges forthcoming. And that wouldn't be unusual in a case like this where investigation is continuing. And to a forensics expert out of the Florida jurisdiction, Karen Smith. Karen, sure, they could have gotten his DNA from items at the cabin, but then you would have had to prove that was his toothbrush or his hairbrush. Doing it pursuant to a warrant where you have a

witness see his blood drawn and take that vial of blood to the crime lab, there's no question in chain of custody. Why do you believe they asked for DNA at this juncture? Well, there's a couple reasons. The first that you've already discussed, the possibility of sexual assault. The other is that, you know, he says he wiped down the shell casing, the shotgun shells, and he wiped down the gun. I'll tell you what, there's a thing called secondary transfer of DNA. And even if you wear gloves, we all touch our face, we all scratch, we all, you know, touch various parts of our bare skin. And if he did that, and then he secondarily transferred that back onto the shotgun shells or back onto the shotgun, there you go. It's another reason that they want to have that for comparative analysis later on.

To Ashley Wilcott, juvenile judge and lawyer, you can find her at ashleywilcott.com. Ashley, a trickle of photos are being released of Jamie, and she's always smiling in all of these photos. You know, that doesn't mean a thing to me. I mean, my twins have smiled at a camera since they were 18 months old. The fact that she's

smiling at the camera that that means nothing to me no it shouldn't mean anything because she's been traumatized by multiple events the fear of somebody coming into the house recognizing her father's been shot and then killed seeing her mother get killed being put in a trunk not knowing where she's going etc etc all of these individual traumatic events affect her brain necessarily. And so she is not only undergoing the trauma of what she's seen, her brain's been affected by it. She is going to need a lot to recover from this. And she's always going to have these horrible experiences. So smiling at the camera doesn't mean anything about how someone's doing on the inside. He has destroyed a 13-year-old. She will no longer feel like a 13-year-old because of what he's done to her. To Dr. Daniel Bober, renowned forensic

psychiatrist, Dr. Bober, you know, people make light of memory loss surrounding traumatic events, but I can personally state that it is true. To this day. There are big chunks of time before and after my fiance's murder. I can't recall at all when I ever see a high school classmate. I'm like, what happened in high school? What or a college friend? What happened that freshman year in that sophomore year? I just I can't remember. Dr. Bober, she said the moment she ran into Jean Nutter, the retired social worker in the street, she said, I've been kidnapped. This guy killed both my parents. I want to go home. She can never go home because the home she remembers doesn't exist anymore.

Her parents are not there. They will never be there. Her way of life is over. It's gone. Can never be reconstructed. What does this do to a child of her age, Dr. Bober? Well, Nancy, we talk about fight, flight, or freeze, and there's chemicals in the brain that are released like cortisol and adrenaline, which alter the way memories are stored. So very often people have no memory of the event, and it's sort of the mind's way of protecting itself from the intensity and the severity of the trauma. But over time, there

may be things in the environment that you experience that trigger these memories and cause them to bubble up to the surface. To Alan Deak, joining me from LA, what can you tell me about this guy's older brother that shared that cabin with Patterson after their parents split until the time the older brother moved away. What do we know about this older brother and what influence he may have had on Patterson? Well, we do know that after the divorce, when I believe Patterson was about 10 years old, the kids were still together. This was before they went to foster care. And the older brother was arrested and convicted on a fourth-degree sexual assault charge. And whether his younger brother saw or knew much about that, we don't know.

But that is an indication that he was exposed to something. Alan, you're right. Court records show no previous criminal history for Jake Patterson himself. But their brother, the older brother, his Facebook page says he's moved to Colorado and did work at a subway, does have a criminal history for fourth degree sex assault. Wisconsin court records show that the brother had apparently met up or found a girl, a minor girl in a different town, drove from Gordon to Buffalo City nearly three hours away to meet a 15-year-old girl to have relations with her. They met online. He had maps, clothes, a police scanner in his car at the time, and he actually was convicted

on that on a lesser charge. What, if any, effect did that have on Jake Patterson? The crime is startlingly similar, but yet very different. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.