Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - A 6-YEAR-OLD BOY DEAD, WHAT HAPPENED TO “JO-JO” JOSEPH KING?

Episode Date: April 18, 2026

6-year-old Joseph "Jo-Jo" King III dies under suspicious circumstances. His stepfather, Brandon Hale, claims Jo-Jo accidentally suffocated inside a toy chest, but investigations revealed inconsistencies in this story. Brandon Hale calls 911 to report that he found Jo-Jo unconscious in a toy chest after waking up from a nap.  Jo-Jo was hospitalized with oxygen deprivation then days later  An autopsy later amended the cause of death to reflect "concern for possible homicidal drowning" because the toy chest was not airtight, and parts of the scene were wet. First responders and investigators noted the toy chest was dry and partially filled with toys, while Jo-Jo's clothes were damp and a wet towel was found nearby.  Hale was previously convicted of abusing Jo-Jo with a belt in 2019, and sentenced to 10 years in prison for violating probation related to the case. He has not been charged with murdering Jo-Jo.    Joining Nancy Grace today Joseph King, Jr. -  Father Philip Dubé  - Former Court-Appointed Counsel, Los Angeles County Public Defenders: Criminal & Constitutional Law, Forensics & Mental Health Advocacy  Max Miner  -  President and CEO of Executive Treatment Solutions (ETS),  Website: ExecTreatmentSolutions.com Kat Schollenberger  - U.S. Head of Live New at Daily Mail dot com, website: DailyMail.com Dave Mack - Investigative Reporter, 'Crime Stories' See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A six-year-old boy is dead. Why? What happened to six-year-old Joe Joe Joseph King, the third? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

I want to thank you for being with us. Six-year-old Joseph King is a loving superhero obsessed child. who enjoys playing sports. One day, his mom leaves him at home with his stepfather, and a couple of hours later, Jojo is found unresponsive. The little boy is dead. Why? What happened?

Joining us an all-star panel, but first, I want to go straight out to Jojo's biological father. It is Detective Joseph King, Jr. Detective, thank you for being with us. Tell me about Jojo. Dojo was born and raised right now. We lived together for his first, like, four and a half years. He was born right here, living in Dunwood.

We lived together. Men's mom never was married. It's just one of the things where when you're dating, sometimes y'all just go separate ways and how y'all are going to handle things. We went out of separate ways. She moved back to her hometown, which was in Texas.

And as soon as she moved back, you know, she's telling me that she's dating somebody. It's a high school sweetheart. Somebody she's already known. And this is how Jojo became, you know, with stepdad. Stepdad went from my boyfriend in the year to where now that.

they're married. Detective Joseph King, Jr. is with us tonight. Searching for answers and the death of his six-year-old little boy, Joseph King Third, named after him, known as Jojo. Very quickly, after your ex married the stepfather, tragedy strikes. What happened? 48 hours later, they get married on a Sunday, on a Sunday, on a Tuesday he beats Jojo so bad.

Jojo ends up in the hospital with wounds all over his body. Like a madman has beat him like he was crazy. But again, I have to look at Mom and say, was this a red flag? Did you ignore this? Well, I find it very curious that, according to you, mom ignored it, because even the teachers at school notice something was horribly wrong with little Jojo. Isn't that right, Detective? The teacher sees that he's not acting his normal self, that something's wrong.

He's limping. And she checks him out if she sees the injuries. And what does Jojo say? Brandon did it. So from that point, now the principal is getting involved, the teachers are involved, the counselors involved. Estar always involved. He has to be taken to the hospital. The detectives is called.

CPS is called. I mean, the whole works. So from that point, he now has to get an emergency forensic interview done on him. Joining us in addition to Jojo's dad, Detective Joseph King, Jr., an all-star panel. But straight out to Eddie Smith, joining us out of Tennessee, organizational advancement director for Child Help, Tennessee, along with an entire team there at Childhelp, and you can find them at Childhelp.com. Mr. Smith, thank you for being with us.

What I don't get is why the mom, when she sees her child limping, doesn't call police or doesn't take him to the emergency room. Why does it have to be the teacher that notices him and then calls in to report the injuries? And that's something that is extremely concerning in this case. That's something that I think should be looked into further. You know, what we always tell people is if you see something, say something. Thankfully, in this case, the teacher did notice something and made a report to CPS that began the investigation where they did determine that this young child had been severely abused.

So I don't have any answers as to why the mother did not make any calls. Yeah, you and me both, Eddie. you and me both, Mr. Smith, joining us now, Dr. Kendall Crowns. He is a renowned chief medical examiner of Tarrant County. That's Fort Worth. He is the star of hit podcast, Mayhem in the Morg, and he is an esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU. Dr. Kimmel Crowns, thank you for being with us. Curious, what do we know of the injuries?

Now, I know you know about the autopsy, but do you know about the injuries he sustained from the beating he took? Yes, I read information along the lines that he had injuries on his thighs and his buttocks that were stripped kind of bruising injuries caused from a belt. Those are typically seen with beatings with a belt. They cause soft tissue hemorrhage underneath. If you beat a child of that size enough with a belt, actually the, the, hemorrhages, if it's globally throughout the body, can be enough blood loss that it can cause their death. So beatings with belts are actually severe and something that we consider every time we do an autopsy. Dr. Kendall Crowns, you know what? You just stop the show right there.

Beating with a belt can cause death. It can make a child bleed. How can you look a child's body and determine that the weapon was a belt as opposed to, let's just say a switch or a ruler or an open hand. How can you tell the beating was done with the belt? So belts can leave patterns. If the belt loops are in there or the little notches that you put the belt buckle through, you can even see them on the skin, leave a bruising pattern that will match the belt. If the belt has a weave, it'll make that too. If they use the buckle to beat the child, that will leave a distinctive pattern. So belts have a distinctive pattern injury that we can see in the bruising pattern at the time of autopsy that can rule out other thing like a switch

or a stick or a ruler. Those in themselves will have a different pattern as well, or charging cables, any of those things, it's all patterns. And belts have a very distinctive pattern. You reviewed documents regarding the beating. Where, again, were the injuries on Jojo's body? So it was back of thighs and buttock region. So standard areas where people will often beat their kids at, often the buttocks. But generally, back of thighs and buttocks is where he was beaten. So this did not, these injuries are not sustained from, for instance, a fall or,

rough housing or playing with other children. It was definitely from a beating from a belt. It's correct. Abusers love to say, oh, the kid fell or, oh, he fell down the stairs. We see this all the time in our child abuse fatalities cases. There's always something that they're doing that's causing them to get these injuries. But when you look at them, they have distinctive patterns. And when you see those patterns based on years of experience, I know when I look at it, oh, that's a belt. That kid didn't fall. Plus the injuries sustained. Don't really fit with falls.

But again, pattern injuries usually lead to a weapon that you can state, oh, they were beaten with a belt, a charging cable, whatever. Back to Jojo's dad joining us, Detective Joseph King, Jr. Detective, I'm sorry to make you relive all of this again. But I want to get to the truth of what happened. We left off with the teachers and the principal getting involved. when they see your son, Jojo, limping at school, and mom is forced to take him in for an exam.

What happened? Mom brings him, he does the forensic interview, and, you know, what's nerve-wracking is he described everything that happened to him, to a T. Now, mom, was one of these people who want to go get him diagnosed for ADHD and stuff like this, which

I'm confused still because I told her when it came to that, let's wait a while because he's four or five years old. They're all over the place now. Let's not medicate him for something like this, and you are teacher yourself. Let's just wait. But this is what she wanted to do. He was in her care, so this is what she did. So she had him

medicated for that. He was taking medication. for that. So you got the stepdad who knows that, you have mom who knows that this is how you have a kid who has a disability and that the throw us salt on the wounds, these are the type of kids that mom teach. She's a teacher. Hey Ontario, come on down to BedmGMGM casino and check out our newest exclusive. The Price is Right Fortune Pick. Don't miss out. Play exciting casino games based on the iconic game show. Only at BetMGM. Access to the Price is right fortune pick is only available at BetMGM Casino. BetMGM and GameSense remind you to play responsibly.

19 plus to wager, Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connix Ontario at 1866-531-2,600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Detective King, what can you? tell me about that forensic interview of your son Jojo? When I look back at the

forensic interview because I got open request on everything, I look at what Jojo said in that forensic interview. Jojo mentioned how the stepdad told him to assume the position.

Assume the position sounds like this is not the first time you put your hands on him. Assume the The position sounds like something that people in a prison system will tell the inmates to. So you're treating my child like he's an inmate. You're telling him to assume the position. He talked about how close he was, how he was fitting as he was talking. He was very descriptive on everything about how he beat him and it hurt, how bad it hurt.

Assume the position to Brian and Blake joining us out of. of that jurisdiction, Texas, Professor University, Texas of Law, Chief Legal Officer, Texas Advocacy Project. Roma Blake, thank you for being with us. Assume the position. That's very scary to hear, Nancy. We know that the link between child abuse and other abuse in the home, domestic violence is really high. Research shows as much as 30 to 60%. So when we hear these details about child abuse, it is concerning and there's the potential for even more we don't know about. To Eddie Smith joining us from childhelp.com, assume the position, that six-year-old boy did not make that up.

He had to have heard that. And if the stepdad was saying that, just like the father, Joseph King is telling me, that was said before. That wasn't the first time. I would believe that is correct. And when you really understand the forensic interview process, that all, you really understand the forensic interview process that all child advocacy centers go through. It's a heavily specialized training where they are the neutral fact finders.

So they don't ask leading questions. The child gave this information freely, which obviously would state that he had been told to assume that position. And again, as your previous guests have said, that is something that is extremely troubling to hear that a child has said that that's what they were told to do. Back to Jojo's father joining us, Detective Joseph King, Jr. I know that the interview went on. There was much more in that forensic interview.

What more do you know that your son said? He then says that, oh yeah, mommy and daddy fight so loud with their hands. He's talking about stepdad and his mom, that he has to turn his TV up in his room so he won't hear them fight. So all this is disclosed in his forensic interview. And I'm trying to wonder at this point, this child should have been

pulled from his home. I was fighting to pull him from the home. I went through the police. I went through CPS. I went through the courts there to try to get some type of emergency orders for him to be taken from the home. Nobody

felt it was the issue. So I find that very probative. Bronwyn Blake joining us, Adjunct Professor at University, Texas School of Law, this jurisdiction. Bronwyn, I found through all the years I prosecuted domestic violence, domestic homicide by the time I got them, that there was a pattern of domestic violence. And when the wife is being beaten, very often you find the children are being beaten because the perp, that's their nature. That's what they do. They don't use words.

They use fists or feet. It's just a pattern of behavior. Yes, Nancy, I've had the same experience. We know that domestic violence is a pattern of power and control, and we need to debunk the myth that child abuse and domestic violence are two separate evils. These are happening in the same house. Research shows us the overlap is as much as 30 to 60 percent, I said. Back to Joseph.

King joining us. This is Jojo's dad. The beating occurred. The teachers are the ones that demanded action, not mom. A forensic interview was given by Jojo. We learn about the stepdad, according to Jojo saying, assumed the position. Then he got beaten black and blue. Very upsetting. We've already heard Dr. Kendall Crowns describe how beatings with both. are very easily identifiable on the child's flesh. But after the beating, Detective Joseph King, what happened? 11 months after that beating, 911 was called. And I have to definitely describe this point.

This man was put on probation in October of 2019 for the first incident. So actually, four months later, while he's on probation, number one call is made by him. He alleged that he found Jojo in a in a toy chest unresponsive. Officers arrived on the scene, deputies arrived on the scene, MS arrived on the scene,

and they gave very vivid stories of what they saw. One female EMT said she noticed on the bed, it was wet where Jojo was. and he was wet from his head to the bottom of his like pants, but she smelled urine. She also noticed that in the bed there was a Lego. So the EMTs, why they're working on him, was saying, hey, maybe he choked on his Lego. And she said, no, he got white foam come out of his mouth. This is more of a sound of a possible drowning.

They thought that was weird. Another officer, as he's walking in the room, noticed that it was a wet towel by Joseph's front door. another officer notated that he noticed that it was two towers on the floor by the toilet stoop. Female deputy who arrived

said, you know, Mr. Hale was laying over top of Joejo screaming and crying. She said everything he was doing look like he was putting on the show. It wasn't real. So while she's there,

she's trying to get information from him. He's crying. He's screaming. He's not listening. He's on the phone. and she finally snashes the phone and said, Mr. Hill, we got to get some information. Key point. He was never on the phone call.

With us tonight is Jojo's dad, Joseph King, Jr. But to Matthew Mangino joining us, former felony prosecutor, author of the executioner's told the crimes, arrest, trials, appeals, last meals, and final words of 46 death row inmates across the country. Mangino, thank you for being with us. you don't think a jury is going to be able to tell if it was all for show? How did the little boy get water and his spinoid cavity behind his nose?

That is not a sign of asphyxiation. That is a sign of water torture and drowning, Mangino. Unfortunately, in this situation, you have an autopsy report that says that the death is undetermined. You have a subsequent report that, says, well, there's suspicious circumstances, this toy chest that the child suffocated in, allegedly is not airtight and that the body was wet and that there was, you know, water, you know, around this toy chest. The circumstances are really suspicious, but, you know, prosecutors may be limited in what they can do based on the autopsy report. He's indicted. He's indicted.

He's indicted. Obviously, a grand jury didn't have a problem with it. Straight to Jojo's dad, Joseph King, Jr. Tell me about the toy chess, Mr. King. And also, why are we dragging our feet? Is this guy out on bond? All right, he's not out on bond. He's currently in prison in Texas for the probation revocation.

that took place in 2024, and he will be up for a parole hearing, I believe, in another, like, a year and a half. As far as the toy chest... Joseph King, Mr. King. Yes. A technical legal term, you're used to that. You work in a district attorney's office.

B.S. You know what happens. When the victim is a little child, somehow that seems to be less important than when the victim is an adult. He's going to come up and they're going to cut him loose. It will be before a year. He had 10 probation. He got revoked when Jojo was killed.

But the reason he's behind bars is a probation sentence. They're going to cut him loose. I don't understand there's been an indictment, but no prosecution. that's the only way he's going to stay behind bars. This is correct. This is correct. Can you tell me about that toy chest? Yes.

The toy chest was the focal point of the investigation, which I feel was BS. The toy chest was filled to the top with toys. It was not wet as Jojo was wet when authorities found him. You can see inside the toy chest there is a, this little toy wall that was part of a Lego set for a jail. If Joseph was in that toy chest pressed up against all the items, when they cut his shirt open when authorities arrive to do life-saving measures on them, you would have saw indications of him being trapped inside of a toy chest. There is no scratch marks in the toy chest as showing somebody trying to escape. escaped out of the toy chest.

And also, when they had a revocation hearing, detectives, they got a mannequin made that was six inches smaller than Joseph. And that mannequin couldn't even fit inside the toy chest. So the whole toy chest that they talked about is all BS. He was never in the toy chest. You know, if he had been in a toy chest, Joseph King, we would have a. different, if he had suffocated in a toy chest

as opposed to what I believe was drowning, we would have a completely different autopsy finding and back to Dr. Kendall Crowns joining us, Chief Medical Examiner, Tarrant County, if the COD, cause

of death was asphyxiation, suffocation. There's a lot of ways to asphyxiate. You can be strangled. Ligator, manual. Suffocate in a toy box. One of my first prosecutions, the victim was asphyxiated with one of those clear, plastic dry cleaner bags over her face. She was also beaten, but that was the real COD asphyxiation.

What would you have found different in the autopsy report if baby Jojo had suffocated because he accidentally crawled into a toy chest, which I'd like to point out, was not airtight? So if the toy chest had been airtight and he was placed in the toy chest, it was closed on top of him, and then the air disappears over time period, he suffocates from the lack of oxygen. He would have still had potentially pulmonary edema and congestion or fluid in his lungs, and he would also have had the cerebral edema. But there would have been no other findings at autopsy because there would be no trauma or anything associated with him slowly dying. from asphyxiation. The one other autopsy are at the scene, they do mention in the police reports,

that they noticed a white foam cone around the child's face. And that actually is consistent again with a drowning. It's also consistent with a drug overdose and people that die of congestive heart failure, but he didn't die from that. So the white foam cone, water in the sphenoid sinus, and the lack of other findings, again, it points to a drowning. Okay, Dr. Kendall Crowns, I know it's hard for you to speak like the rest of us, mere mortals,

but when you say a white foam cone, I believe you mean that baby Jojo breathed out a watery foam, which is common in drowning deaths. What would that cone, C-O-N-E, like a pine cone, what would that look like? What are you talking about? A white foam cone? So it's this dense, white, dried foam. It's like it would look like a bubbly shaving cream or something like that. But it's around, usually around the nose and mouth, and it comes out as a process is the lungs

are filling with fluid. You're getting the coughing, the gagging from drowning. it creates this kind of mixture of water and pulmonary fluid proteins and creates this white foam cone that comes out of the mouth and nose. Again, we see this in drownings, drug overdoses and people who die in congestive heart failure. He does not have congestive heart failure. He's not a drug overdose. Again, the foam cone points to a drowning in my opinion. Well, I think what says it all is what you told us a few moments ago about water being in the spinoid sinus cavity.

Back here. Why is water back here? So it shouldn't be. The sphenoid sinus usually creates mucus that helps with getting rid of stuff getting in the nose. But what happens is in a drowning because your brain forces you to take that breath because at some point your brain overwhelms your knowing that you don't want to breathe in that oxygen. your brain forces you to breathe. You breathe in that water, and that forced inhalation actually forces water into the sphenoid sinus because of the pressure. And that's why you see water in the sphenoid in drowning.

So that's because of that forced initial inhalation of water during the drowning. And again, you don't see that in other types of death. To Mr. King, this is Jojo's father. Mr. King, how do you sit by? and listen to the discussion of your baby Jojo and a white thumb cone on his face. Because I can hardly stand it. I don't know how you're doing it. It's definitely, it's tough to hear.

It's definitely tough to hear. But I've talked to experts in the past who've told me the same thing, which I tried to relate to the DA, who was over the case, who refuse to listen. And just hearing another person say the same thing validates what we all been saying for the last six years. Who is the DA? The DA of Tarrant County, his name is Mr. Soros.

It's Mr. Phil Sorrels, the elected district attorney. That's the problem. Okay? do you hear me? Yes. And I've, I've been calling, I've been calling,

I've been calling the office since November of last year. I've been calling, I've been leaving emails, I've been getting a run around, then I was say about a month ago, the story has been,

they don't have to talk to me anymore. The case is closed. He's in prison. what more do you want, but I still have never gotten the actual callback from the DA. I want life behind bars. I want life behind bars at the least. You have similar transactions at the yin-yang. I'm referring to his conviction for beating baby Jojo so bad he couldn't walk.

That child was being so badly he could not walk, which leads me to your ex. Mommy. What does she have to say about all this? She's protecting her husband. She has said nothing about the protection of Jojo is all has been the protection of her husband. Every story she comes up with makes no sense.

It has no evidentiary proof. And whatever story her husband gave her, this is the story that she's living by. And she doesn't care. I'm the only parent fighting for this. What story? I can't wait to hear this. What are her changing story?

Well, her story initially when I was at the hospital was that Joseph probably was jumping on his bed, jumped off his bed into the toy chest, the top of the toy chest hit him in the head, and that's how stepdad found him. That makes no sense. It didn't make sense when I heard it. The fact that she lawyered, the fact that she lawyered up with her husband, the day when the investigators wanted to speak to him, that said a lot to me right then. What are you loring up for if you're claiming that a so-called accident possibly

happened? Doesn't make sense. What's her new story? What's her news story? I don't know what her new story is today. I don't follow her on social media. She's putting stuff out there on social media about whatever took place. I ignore it.

This falls back on her. And this is not the first incident. that took place. The 2019 accident took place as well. Eddie Smith joining us, organizational advancement director, Child Help Tennessee, child abuse expert. Eddie, do you ever get exhausted hearing? One case after the next where there is a pattern of abuse, the child stays in the home, and the child ends up dead. And mommy stands by the perp.

Do they need a man that badly? You know, it's exhausting because unfortunately, Jojo is just representative of the fact that we will lose six kids today. We'll lose six kids tomorrow due to child abuse and neglect. In this country, every 15 seconds, a report of child abuse or neglect is made. It is something that we are working across the country to end. And that's why you can see that behind me is our hotline number for the national. child abuse hotline at 1-800

4-2-2-4-453. We encourage people, if you see something, call, speak up, don't let this go on so that we can stop the next kid from being killed. The number for child help is 800-4-22-44-53.

Repeat, 800-4-2-4-5-3. Back to Joseph King. This is Jojo's dad. After the initial beating incident, how in the hay did Jojo end up still in the home? We have to ask CPS why did they allow him. And then we also have to ask the Grand Prix Police Department, the detective of the case, why was he still there?

Because I went through CPS. I was continuously calling, trying to have him removed from the home. CPS said they don't remove kids from the home. I would have to go through the police department. I went through the police department. The police department pointed fingers at CPS. I even went first trying to get a protection order from family court in Tarrant County, and they denied that because they said,

Jojo lives in the home with a stepfather, and a judge will never grant that protection order. Too many people came up with excuses which didn't make any sense. I even talked to mom and said, hey, Joseph needs to be back here in Atlanta because something's going on in your home, and I said I don't have to take him permanently, but until this whole investigation is complete, I think the best thing for him is come back to Atlanta,

and she said, no, Joseph needs to stay where he's loved. Now, I don't even know what that comment means because Joseph was loved here in Atlanta. There were no abuse cases. He was taking care of well here. Hey, Ontario. Come on down to BedmGMGF Casino and check out our newest exclusive.

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If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connix Ontario at 1866-531-2,600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. to Dr. Kendall Crowns is joining us Chief Medical Examiner in the Texas jurisdiction of Fort Worth. Dr. Kendall Crowns, tell me what you learned about this child's autopsy. So reviewing his autopsy reports, he had a time period in the hospital where he survived before he finally passed away. He was on a respirator. And there's a couple key things. He basically

gets cerebral edema or swelling of his brain from this long-term being on a respirator and eventually dies. He's signed out as global hypoxic encephalopathy, which means he did not get enough oxygen to his brain, and that resulted in his death. And then he is, the manner is determined to be undetermined. Initially, they were talking about him being entrapped in a sealed chest, which if it was truly sealed, the oxygen would disappear and he would suffocate, but that's been found that the chest itself wasn't able to be sealed, and he was possibly able to get oxygen. The big question, the main thing is, is when the police arrive, he's wet, and his clothing is wet, and the bed is even wet. So autopsy, one of the main autopsy findings is, is they say that he has water in his

sphenoid sinus. The spinoid sinus is an area in your nasal cavity, just behind your nasal cavity, where you have this little opening that can get water in it. And we'll see that in drownings. And then the other findings are, is he has an abrasion on the back of his head. And to me, it almost sounds like he's been placed in a bathtub, held down, getting the back of the head abration, and drowns. And then he didn't quite fully drowned. And he had a a period of survival in which he ends up on a respirator and then eventually dies. But he had enough prolonged lack of oxygen from the drowning that he got brain damage and never was able to wake back up. And I see this often in child abuse cases. Often the child has an accident or

irritates the individual that is taking care of them. Often a boyfriend or a step-parent. They become enraged and they just take it out on the kid. You stated that the bed was wet. His clothing was wet that he was wearing. Was it water, was the water tested? Was it urine? Was it from a bathtub? Was it perspiration?

So that's a good question is, was the water or the wetness on the bed urine? There is no information in regards to that. And that would be classic for these child abuse cases is the child pees himself, the step-parent gets angry or the boyfriend gets angry because he doesn't want to have to clean this kid up that's not even his, freaks out and starts beating the kid. And often when they defecate on themselves or soil themselves, water gets involved because they have to be cleaned up. And that's when they get drowned in the bathtub. Or I've seen other cases in which they put them in the shower, but they turn it on so hot that they scald all their skin off. So it's this kind of angry caretaker situation that they don't want to take care of this kid that's not even their own. And they end up killing them because, you know, they soiled themselves and that's the final straw.

Dr. Kendall Crowns, if the water torture had occurred, as you hypothesized, wouldn't there be water in his lungs? So he does have some congestion and edema of his lungs. But it's problematic because he's been on a ventilator. If he had died right away, we would have had a better idea that, oh, his heavy swollen lungs are due to the fact that he drowned combined with the water and the sphenoid sinus. But the issue is, is he's been on a respirator for a period of time. And that itself is going to cause pulmonary edema as well or fluid in the lungs. For a few days? You'll get pulmonary edema in just a few days?

On being on a respirator, yes, you can. So that's the problem. It's difficult to separate out the... Was it drowning or did he have pulmonary edema secondary to being on a ventilator? But bottom line is, is you've got a kid that's dead. He's got hypoxic brain injury, sort of being smothered, which he has no signs of that, no bruises on the lips or anything like that. The fact that he's wet, it really looks like someone held him underwater in a bathtub.

What is hypoxic brain injury? Hypoxic brain injury is basically the brain tissue dying from lack of of oxygen. And this can occur in a number of ways, usually a sphyxial death, meaning no oxygen is getting into your body. Strangulation, smotherings, drownings, plastic bag overhead, a pillow over face. All these things are asphyxial deaths. So, but basically, bottom line, it means not enough oxygen got to your brain. Your brain died. Well, then, in light of the water, and again, what was that behind the nose, the cavity behind the nose, had water in it?

Spinoid sinus. What is that? It is a area or a sinus that is immediately behind your nasal cavity, kind of sits in your skull a little further back, and it's an opening, and it can get filled with fluid, and it's something we usually look at to see if there's water in it, to see if it's a drowning. Was there water in Jojo's? Yes, on page two of the autopsy report, it says, and I quote,

spinoid sinus contains a slight amount of fluid, and after removal of the mucosa, there are focal areas of hemorrhage involving the sphenoid sinus. We can see these areas of hemorrhage too. Right, or right, correct. And that can be secondary to a strangulation, and it could also be secondary to CPR, which did occur. Question. He died, COD, hypoxic brain injury, lack of oxygen, to the brain, correct? Correct. That was not due to him being on a ventilator, correct? So he had the hypoxic encephalopathy or the brain damage.

When he arrives at the hospital, he's still alive, and that's why they put him on the ventilator. Okay. So he had that before the ventilator? Correct. That's my understanding. Okay. So nothing that was done at the hospital caused his death. death. Correct. He was basically dead already. He just didn't know it yet. Okay. And we don't know because they didn't sample the water, the fluid in the bed and on his clothing or his body if it was urine,

if it was water, or if it was perspiration. But the fact that there was water in the spinoid sinus cavity, you can't get that from perspiration or urine. So it's water. Correct. That is correct. To Matthew Migeno, Matthew, take off your defense at just one moment. This dad, Joseph King Jr., the second, did everything possible. He is an investigator, a detective inside a metropolitan district attorney's office. If he can't get action, what about everybody else that's not familiar with a system that doesn't know what to do? They're screwed, Matthew. Yes, I mean, this is gut-wrenching.

And I feel for Mr. King, I couldn't imagine to be in his shoes. But there's systemic failures here. I mean, there's children's services. Did they drop the ball here? Should they have intervened? I can't imagine that a case of child abuse that involves a criminal prosecution is not a basis for dependency to take that child out of that home. home, you know, seeking a protective order. Hey, I don't, I don't care what they tell me when I go there to try to file the protective order. I want to be in front of a judge. I want to tell the judge what's

going on here. Why would there be a roadblock there? And then, you know, the prosecutors ultimately, in this case, decide not to go forward. Now, maybe there's a legitimate reason for that. Obviously, these autopsies don't help. You know what it is. You heard Kendall Crowns. The reason is they think, Oh, well, we've got him on a probation revocation. He got 10 years. He'll be in for three or four more years on that, which he won't. So that's enough.

That's not enough. If this is an intentional murder, he's already been indicted on homicide, that is not sufficient. And I agree with you. And I can't imagine what prosecutor who believed that they could prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt that this was a homicide would say, I'm satisfied with a 10-year sentence on a probation violation. That doesn't add up to me. I'm not sure what that means or what they're trying to portray unless they legitimately believe they can't prove this case beyond a reasonable doubt with regard to the homicide.

Hey, Mr. King, can I ask you something? Have you ever had dreams or any kind of contact with Baby Jojo since his murder? I had one dream. That's the only dream I ever had. And it was, it was maybe three weeks after he was actually gone. And the dream was me. I was on the bus going somewhere. And the bus stopped. And he got on the bus. And I looked at him and I said, hey, what are you doing here? He said, I just want to let you know that I'm okay. baby Jojo's mother who did not wish to answer questions tonight. Let your voice be heard. If you want justice for baby Jojo, join us. Dial the district attorney's office 817-884-1400. Repeat, 817-884-1400. We want justice. Tonight we remember in America, hero, Deputy Sheriff Josh Owen, Pope County Sheriff's Minnesota, shot in the line of duty, leaving behind a wife, a grieving widow, Shannon, and son, Rylan.

American hero, Deputy Sheriff Josh Owen. Thank you to our guests, especially Mr. King, for being with us tonight. Nancy Grace signing off. I'll see you tomorrow night, and until then, good night, friend. This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed human.