Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Accused CHILD sex perv Ghislaine Maxwell facing NEW CHARGES!

Episode Date: March 30, 2021

Federal prosecutors add sex trafficking and sex trafficking conspiracy to the indictment against Ghislaine Maxwell. A new accuser says she was 14 when she was recruited to give Epstein “sexualized massages.” Maxwell now faces eight counts on accusations from four minor victims. She had previously been indicted on four counts related to enticing minors to travel to engage in illegal sex acts and two counts of perjury for allegedly lying to prosecutors about her activities. The indictment says that Maxwell groomed the fourth victim “to engage in sexual acts with Epstein through multiple means,” despite the victim telling her she was under the age of 18. The victim was paid “hundreds of dollars” by Epstein employees, including Maxwell, the document says, and she was encouraged to recruit other minor girls. Joining Nancy Grace today: Justin Boardman - former Detective, Special Victim’s Unit, West Valley City Police Department, Boardman Training & Consulting, JustinBoardman.com, Jessica Pride - Sexual Assault Attorney, Managing Partner, The Pride Law Firm, victimlawyer.com Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, www.drbethanymarshall.com, New Netflix show: 'Bling Empire'  Bobby Chacon Former FBI, Facebook TV Show “Curse of Akakor”  Charlie Lankston - Reporter, Daily Mail  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Breaking news in the last hour, she has a British accent. She's sitting on about 20 million plus dollars. She's gorgeous. She has all the manners you can imagine. And she's charged with sex attacks on girls. Ghislaine Maxwell, in the last hours, hit with brand new sex assault charges on minors. This as she is facing trial in just weeks. Listen to the latest.

Delaine Maxwell, the longtime confidant of Jeffrey Epstein, is facing new charges for the first time accused of sex trafficking of a minor. It's a new indictment accusing her of helping recruit and paying a 14-year-old girl to engage in sexual acts with Epstein between 2001 and 2004. Maxwell pleaded not guilty to previous charges tied to Epstein. A lot of people arguing legal eagles, legal scholars. Why did the federal government wait till now, the midnight hour, the 11th hour before trial, to come up with new charges? You know what? Instead of asking that, why don't we ask, did Ghislaine Maxwell lure little girls for massages with perv Jeffrey Epstein? Why don't

we ask that? See if that shoe fits with me, an all-star panel to break it down and put it back together again. First of all, Jessica Pride, sex assault lawyer with the Pride firm. And you can find her on Insta at the Pride law firm, Twitter at Pride lawyer. We're now on psychoanalysts joining us today. Dr. Bethany Marshall. She's now in the new Netflix series, Bling Empire. And she's at drbethanymarshall.com, former FBI Facebook star on Curse of Akakor, Bobby Chacon. Joining us, Justin Boardman, former detective special victims unit, West Valley PD, Boardman Training and Consulting at JustinBoardman.com. But first, to Charlie Langston, editor with the Daily Mail. You can find her on Twitter and Insta at CharlieLangston, L-A-N-K-S.

Charlie, does it never end with this woman? First of all, I agree with everybody that this is a day late, but not a dollar short. We are heading into the trial, and in the last hours, the state, the feds, deliver a superseding indictment with two brand new felony charges. Hey, Charlie, listen to our cut. A Victoria Arbiter with 7 News Australia. Just a week after her third request for bail was denied, Ghislaine Maxwell is facing new charges. Yesterday, U.S. prosecutors announced that they're expanding their criminal case against her. The new eight-count indictment accuses

Ghislaine Maxwell of grooming and paying for a 14-year-old girl to engage in sex acts with Jeffrey Epstein at his Palm Beach, Florida home between 2001 and 2004. Now, Maxwell was already facing counts dating back to the mid-90s, but these new charges broaden the time frame considerably and add an alleged fourth victim. Maxwell is accused of scheduling these encounters and of paying the young girl hundreds of dollars in cash after each visit. And isn't it true, Charlie Langston, joining us from DailyMail.com, that in order to make the young girls as young as 14, Jackie, you know,

that's less than a year older than my little Lucy. Just think about that in your mind that she would send them racy lingerie from her Manhattan condo, that she would be there in Palm beach, sometimes greeting the little girls at the door and leading them into a massage room where Epstein would show up butt naked. I don't even want to think about that. But then she would disrobe as well to make the little girls feel more comfortable with the fact that they had to strip down. You know what? Just start at the beginning, Charlie. You know

more than I do on this. Hit it. Well, I think you've said it very correctly. What Ghislaine did was not just – I think I'm going to throw up. I feel like coming up just talking about – when I thought about my little girl, Charlie, and these girls at the same age. But I think what's really shocking is she tried to befriend them. She became a figure of support for them. She took them shopping. She acted as though she was like another mother figure, a big sister to them, at least according to this indictment. And we have reports that she would be there on hand when these girls turned up

at one of Epstein's properties to make them feel more comfortable. She would then unrobe in order for the girls to feel more comfortable taking their clothes off. She would show them how to massage Epstein the way that he liked it. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. How to massage him the way he liked it. Yeah, we understand that she would show them what to do. You might call it a massage, but i call it something very different there's a lot of names for it it's called masturbating somebody i mean that's that's the nicest way i can say it you know way back when we call it a half and half when i was

prosecuting i won't go into any other details but this these are 14-year-old girls that we know of. So explain to me, you just said, Charlie Langston, let me put your feet to the fire one moment, that she was like a sister or a mother to these girls. Are you serious? That's how she tried to make herself seen. When you look at this indictment and you see the behavior that she displayed, that's what she was trying to do. She was trying to be a confidant to these young girls so that they trusted her implicitly. Now, we know from previous reports that a lot of these girls were incredibly vulnerable. Not all of them came from supportive homes. They were looking for someone that they could turn to for advice, for help, for guidance.

And Elaine stepped into that role. Hold on. I want to follow up something you just said with our panel. We've got Jessica Prye, Dr. Bethany Marshall, Bobbi Chacon, Justin Boardman. Justin, to you, former detective, special victims unit. Isn't that how it always goes? Because I prosecuted so many cases where the perp would befriend the child. I've told this before. There was a little boy looking back,

I think he may have been autistic, but he loved video arcades and the molester would give him rolls of quarters in exchange for sodomy. A little boy about 11 years old that was autistic. And his mom didn't know what was happening until she found a $50 bill folded up in his blue jeans. And she knew something was very wrong. And isn't that the way you saw it when you were on the force? Absolutely, it was. And that would be part of my building the case was looking for those grooming manipulation sort of behaviors. You know, did they do anything to help control the situation or help get the victim isolated away from their comfort system,

their support systems, like going to the mansion. You know, were they selected if they were, because they were an easier target? Did they use knowledge to control them? Things like that. I would start building my foundation of my case with those types of behaviors. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Those of you just joining us, in the last hours, it has been announced that British Society maven Ghislaine Maxwell has been charged with two additional felony counts

about procuring, I guess that's one nice way of putting it, little girls for her buddy, former lover Jeffrey Epstein, to molest. Can you even imagine sending your little girl into a massage room and Epstein comes out naked. I don't even want to think about that. But that's what happened, according to the feds. Many people arguing, why is this just happening? We're about to start the trial. Why are they adding two new charges?

Yeah, I agree that the timing is off, Jessica. I don't like it. But what I like even less are what's in these allegations, Jessica Bride. Yeah, I think this is about snitching. They are trying to put added pressure on her to cooperate because these new charges are a big deal. The reason why they're a big deal is because before she wasn't facing a mandatory minimum sentence. Now she's facing a mandatory minimum sentence. Now she's facing a mandatory minimum sentence of 10 years. 15 if they can prove she enticed the girls using fraud, which meaning she

pretended that it was a legitimate job at first. So with this added hammer, they're really putting the pressure on her to help them out and to give information. I think she was keeping her mouth shut and she was not helping the prosecutor. And they probably knew about this other victim before. And they had probably told her, hey, right now you don't have a mandatory minimum sentence. But if you don't cooperate, we're going to add it, which is exactly why they added it now and why they're able to go forward with the trial on July 12th, because I think they already knew about the information. You mean the feds already knew

about the information or the defense already knew? Because what's the catch is the defense has to have time to prepare to battle these charges at trial. And they're going to claim they didn't know, and they're going to want a delay in the trial. Yeah, I agree. They are probably going to ask for a continuance, but they probably alluded to it. I think the feds knew about it. They were just hoping that Jelaine would turn over

and talk about the very rich and wealthy, powerful people she has information about. Let's just call it as it is. Potentially Bill Clinton. Potentially Prince Andrew. Potentially Donald Trump. Potentially a lot of other wealthy people. They all say no.

They had nothing to do with this. But those are names that have been boiling in the stew. That is Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein. Are they involved? Don't know. We'll see. But you know what? You just said it so beautifully and so perfectly.

You know, you really ought to be a trial lawyer. Guys, she is. It's Jessica Pryde, sex assault lawyer, joining us. That's exactly what the feds have done. And I got to tell you, Bobby Chikung, when I talk about the feds, I always say the same thing because I was a fed for three years before I started prosecuting violent crime. The feds don't play. They do not play. If you do not do what they want you to do, they will go after you.

And the irony here is what they use is legit. They're not going after you with false claims. I guarantee you they've backed this up, T's crossed, I's dotted on these other two claims. They got the goods. Sure. I mean, if you look at the conviction rates at the federal level, the U.S. Attorney's Office is much higher than on local. Obviously, there's a lot of reasons for that. But one of them is we are very thorough. I mean, I used to work years on a case before I voted to indictment. And then many times there were superseding indictments because a lot of things happen between when you indict and when you go to trial.

Other witnesses come forward because they know about the case or there's negotiations with witnesses or you have to get a witness to the point where you're confident to put them on the stand because there's a process that a witness goes through before they can be a good witness at trial. So, you know, this superseding indictment does add minor victim number four. It also brings the activity more recent from 2001 now to 2004 2004 where the previous indictment ended I believe in 1997 so you're talking about more recent crimes you're talking about additional crimes so you you can bet that they did their homework the feds did their homework in preparing this new witness this minor witness number four minus victim minor victim number four and and they felt that this was the time you, to add these charges

because they're confident that they can prove them before jury. Guys, you're hearing from Bobby Chacon, former FBI, Facebook star, curse of Echo Corps. Back to Charlie Langston reporting on the very latest in the case against,

well, let me just say high society pimp. That's what the state's alleging, the feds anyway. Let's go back to Charlie Langston with DailyMail.com. Charlie, listen to our friend at 7 News, Victoria Arbiter Cutby. She was arrested at her New Hampshire home last July. She's since been held at a Brooklyn detention center where the conditions are said to be pretty grim. Her trial is due to begin on July 12th, but there's been no word as yet as to whether or not her lawyers will try to delay the start of that trial now that there are these new charges.

But as you mentioned, everyone is very keen to hear from her directly. Oh, they'll totally try to delay the trial. Absolutely. They should. Is that Jessica jumping in or is that Charlie? That was me. Jump in, Charlie. You know they're going to delay.

And they deserve a delay. You know, delay, delay, delay. It's a defense attorney's best friend for many, many reasons. But in this case, with brand new charges that kick in mandatory minimums of 10 to 15 years, yeah, they're asking for a delay. Go will, I mean, they would be crazy not to ask for a delay, to be completely frank. And to go back to that expanded timeframe, that is incredibly significant for another reason, because it was during the years of 2001 to 2004, which is when these new charges are dated, that Epstein was associating with people like Bill Clinton and Prince Andrew. So while they have not been named specifically in this updated indictment, this really does give new cause for the FBI to call people like that in for questioning. We know that Prince Andrew specifically was socializing with Epstein during these years. And Andrew is already facing increased pressure in the UK as a result of this news to fly over to the US and speak to the FBI about his associations with that's not going to happen that is not going to

happen I just saw a picture of him yesterday uh going around his estate with two young horse grooms they're all three on beautiful prize-winning horses. That guy is not coming to the U.S. to speak to the FBI. Not going to happen unless he's forced to. Now, how do Clinton and Trump fit into this mix? I mean, I know Clinton flew on the Lolita Express. He flew on Epstein's private plane. That does not mean he engaged in underage sex. And I know Trump was maybe photoed with Ghislaine Maxwell, but that in no way implicates him in any wrongdoing for either of them. Is that why they're in the mix? Well, because it increases the time frame. timeframe. So whereas previously the timeframe went up to 1997, Trump, Clinton, Andrew, they

could all get away with saying, well, we have no known connections with Maxwell during that time. That is now changed because she is now being charged with crimes up until 2004. We know that Clinton and Andrew specifically were associating with Epstein during the early 2000s. So that really does bring them into the mix. You are very much correct. Their associations with Epstein does not mean necessarily that they were involved in any criminal activity. But it does mean that they may have pertinent information that could be incredibly useful in this specific case against Maxwell. Right. For all we know, to play devil's advocate, you know how Ghislaine Maxwell and Epstein would

throw these lavish parties and they would have tons of photographers running around taking photos. You know, I know they would want to pose with either Clinton or Trump. You know they would. So does that mean any wrongdoing? No. Everything must be proven in a court of law. Guys, we are talking about brand new charges. The feds have pulled down the hammer on Ghislaine Maxwell. She's accused of basically being a high-priced pimp, a madam, so to speak, to her pervy boyfriend, Jeffrey Epstein,

a millionaire. Take a listen to Scott Jones, Fox 59. There are new charges against Ghislaine Maxwell, the associate and girlfriend of the late Jeffrey Epstein. Prosecutors say that she helped run his underage sex trafficking ring. Federal prosecutors added two new counts of sex trafficking conspiracy and sex trafficking of a minor. The attorneys added a fourth victim to the case, a 14-year-old who they say was recruited for Epstein. Maxwell is accused of paying the teen hundreds of dollars for each illegal sexual act and sending gifts, including lingerie, to her home. Maxwell has pled not guilty and is scheduled to stand trial in July. Sending a 14-year-old little girl lingerie at her home, that's pretty bold. And that was Scott Jones at Fox 59. Earlier, you were hearing our friend Lester Holt at NBC News. Now, I want you to take a listen to the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York.

This is Audrey Strauss. Maxwell was among Epstein's closest associates and helped him exploit girls who were as young as 14 years old. Maxwell played a critical role in helping Epstein to identify, befriend, and groom minor victims for abuse. In some cases, Maxwell participated in the abuse herself. As alleged, Maxwell and Epstein had a method. Typically, they would befriend these young girls by asking them questions about their lives, pretending to be taking an interest in them. They would take them to the movies and treat them to shopping trips. Maxwell would encourage these young girls to accept offers from Epstein to pay for their travel and their education, making these young victims feel indebted to Jeffrey Epstein. Now, what is Ghislaine Maxwell, a millionaire from

the family of a multimillionaire in Great Britain, doing taking these little girls out to shopping malls. Why? I mean, the jury is going to have to think this thing through. She is rubbing elbows with Clinton and Trump and Prince Andrew and all sorts of wealthy multimillionaires from all over the world. So what's her interest in a 14-year-old little girl? That would be the first thing I would say to the jury, right there. Let me try Dr. Bethany Marshall again, Psycho Analyst to the Stars, joining us. Dr. Bethany, are you there? Yes, I'm here. Can you hear me? I'm ready. Hit me. Okay, her interest in these underage girls is $168 million. You know, we have a term in my field, it's called secondary gains.

It means you're getting something out of very sick or disturbed or perverted behavior. A more benign example would be like a young girl is anorexic in a family and you wonder like what's keeping the anorexia going even though she's in a lot of therapy. And then you realize that her family is spawning over her, giving her a lot of attention, poking food at her all the time. So she's getting something out of the symptoms. And I think in this case, although Gillen may have been perverse herself, she had secondary gains. She got to rub elbows with very wealthy people. She got millions of dollars. She got to fly on what you call the Lolita Express.

Have you seen the island, Nancy? I mean, it was beautiful, servants at her disposal, a mansion in New York City, unlimited access to Jeffrey Epstein's wealth. I don't think she was in love with him anymore. I think she had moved on. Perhaps they were friends, but he supplied her with a lifestyle. And you put that along with a lack of a conscience, not really caring about these young girls. And you asked earlier about where were their parents. They all came from poor families, Nancy. Their parents had to work. Their parents didn't have like 360 on their phones, you know, tracking their girls. Their families were like at the local Circle K or Target or Walmart, just trying to pay the family's rent so they

couldn't keep track on these girls. So think of the contrast between hundreds, tens of millions of dollars Gillen had at her disposal and the five or ten dollars these parents scraped together to give to their girls on a daily basis. And then Gillen gives them rolls of cash. It's just a really sick pattern, but I would say it was the millions of dollars and the rubbing elbows with high-powered people that kept her there. Back to Justin Boardman, former detective, Special Victims Unit, West Valley PD. What Dr. Bethany just said really hit home to me because I remember my dad would work all kinds of crazy hours. We called them tricks with the railroad. The first trick, the second trick, the third trick. It means the shift. My mom wouldn't get home sometimes six or

seven o'clock at night from work. That gives from three o'clock, if Ghislaine Maxwell were to pick these children up from school and take them to Epstein's mansion, that gives till seven o'clock. That's four hours. That's plenty of time for these sex acts to occur. And the parents never knowing what was going on, Justin? Absolutely. All part of the grooming process, again, which would be documentation for my case. So finding the vulnerabilities in her targets, if you will, and exploiting them and showing that she was safe and she could provide for them, buy them gifts, give them money, and then also to do that if they recruited more. So if they wanted more of that attention, if they wanted more of those gifts,

they would recruit other young girls. Well, that's interesting that you just said that, because that is part of what is claimed here, that this new victim number four would actually recruit other girls. Let's take a listen again to the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York. This is Audrey Strauss. Maxwell and Epstein worked together to entice these minor victims to travel to Epstein's residences depicted on the other chart at the

front of the room. His residence in New York City on the Upper East Side, as well as Palm Beach, Florida, and Santa Fe, New Mexico. Some of the acts of abuse also took place in Maxwell's residence in London, England. Can you imagine these girls who came from nowhere and had nothing being flown around on a plane? Take a listen to more of Audrey Strauss. After developing a rapport with victims, Maxwell then tried to normalize sexual abuse with the minor victim through a process known as grooming. For example, Maxwell would discuss sexual topics with the victim and undress in front of the victim or be present for sex acts involving the minor victims and Epstein. Maxwell's

presence as an adult woman helped with the victims at ease. As Maxwell and Epstein intended, this wounding process left the minor victims susceptible to sexual abuse. That abuse included sexualized massages during which the minor victim was fully or partially nude. These sexualized massages developed into sexual encounters for which Maxwell, in some instances, was present and participated. Back to Charlie Langston with DailyMail.com. Charlie, I understand that along with these new charges, there is now a threat to Ghislaine Maxwell's financial empire and the savings of her new husband. Explain.

Yes, the prosecutors have said that if she is convicted, they will go after her fortune and her husband's fortune. The couple is said to be worth around $22.5 million together. So this is yet another threat. Not only could Ghislaine end up in prison for a very long time, but she could also see the majority of the wealth that she has built up. And we've talked about how important that wealth was to her. That could also be taken from her. So she stands to lose a lot more than just 10 years of her life, 15 years of her life in jail. You know, I noticed in the wording by the feds that they said that they are going after her money. And if she has commingled her money

or transferred her money to anyone else or any other account, if that money is not easily detachable from the other account, they'll take that other account too. What I'm talking about is the husband's savings. crime stories with nancy grace to jessica pride a sex assault lawyer joining us insta at the pride a law firm jessica how does that work and it's entirely legal. They can seize assets. That's why you shouldn't commit crimes. Yeah, she's facing life in prison, as she should. That is a pittance that she has to pay compared to what she has done to these victims. So not only is she going to face having her finances taken

by the federal government, she also can be sued in civil court by the survivors and they can sue her for what she has done to them. So I hope all of her assets are not only seized or she is sued for them because she sentenced these survivors to a life sentence. We know that sexual trauma is something that does not go away. It lives with a child for the rest of their lives, which is why we are still here talking about this case here today, because those survivors are not okay. And they deserve to be compensated. They're not. And not only that, trolls have gone after the known victims. And if you notice in this superseding indictment, this new victim is named victim number four.

Many people will argue that the feds are using victim number four to corroborate or bolster the rest of their case. And that may be true. May not like that. But so what? If the allegations are true, that is the crime, not the federal government's methods in catching a pimp. I want to follow up. Can we just stop using the word pimp? I mean, I understand what she's charged with enticing these people. But, you know, I abhor the word pimp because it marginalizes her activity. We heard from the prosecutor earlier, and if you read the indictment, Ghislaine Maxwell actively participated in this abuse. She did not just arrange for Jeffrey Epstein to have these girls. She actively

participated, and it's spelled out in some of the overt acts in the indictment where she was an abuser herself. And I think that the more we say that she was his girlfriend and getting girls for him, it marginalizes the fact that she herself was an abuser. She at least on one occasion spelled out in the indictment, she massaged one of these girls while the minor was topless. She may have used sex toys on some of these victims. So she was an abuser herself. And I think the more we term her as a pimp or someone who just facilitated getting these girls to Jeffrey Epstein, it minimizes the fact that she herself abused these victims. You know what, Bobby Chacon?

You're right. Can I take you back on that? Hold on, Bethany, because I want to throw you a question based on something Jessica just said. But you can incorporate what Bobby Chacon just you're right. Can I take you back on that? Hold on, Bethany, because I want to throw you a question based on something Jessica just said, but you can incorporate what Bobby Chacon just said as well. When you're a crime victim of violent crime, such as a sex assault, it never goes away. I don't care how many years pass. You wake up at night reliving it. You dream about it.

It makes you feel sick to your stomach when you remember it. You blame yourself for what happened. Why did I do this? Why did I let that happen? Why did I go? What was wrong with me? And you live with the shame of it like it's your fault the rest of your life. Victims of violent crime never get over it. That's right, Nancy. And the part about you blaming themselves is what I wanted to pick up on. 14 years of age, where the child is developmentally, is that they are separating from their parents. They're attaching to their peers and their school teachers.

They are not wanting to be at home. They are just on the brink of wanting to experiment and learn who they are in the world. And that's why if you have a 14-year-old, they're going to walk around with headsets on or their little earpieces in. They're going to have the radio kind of pumped up. They're going to be wanting to, you know, skateboard down the street because their parents, the family home is not where the action is for them developmentally. It is the larger world they're preparing to leave home. So Jeffrey Epstein and Dylan Maxwell

exploited that very vulnerable age where the victim would agree. The victim would say, oh, this is kind of cool. I've never been in a mansion before. Hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of $100 bills. Wow, I get to be in a limo. Oh, this girl's cool. I have never, ever met somebody like her. My parents are kind of funny daddies. So I think it's the exploitation of where the girls were developmentally that really particularly makes me sick. When you're kidnapped, you know you played no role in that. If somebody rapes you in a parking lot, you know that it wasn't your fault because you were walking through the parking lot. But when you are 14 years old and you're easily enticed to want to know anything and everything about the world. And so you say yes,

and you go forward. And then in the blink of an eye, you become the victim. I think that's where the trauma is, Nancy. And what you were talking about dreaming at night, it's called flashbacks. Let's think about the symptoms of post-traumatic stress, isolation, detachment, dissociative phenomena, numbing, distrust of the world, tearfulness, crying, depression, predisposition to substance abuse. This is what these girls are going to be suffering from for the rest of their lives. It's not just that I fell off my skateboard when I was skating away from the family home because I was sick of my parents. I was molested because my developmental age was used against me. Another thing I've learned, Dr. Bethany, is it's not so much the physical act of just, for instance, a sex toy

being used on you at age 14, but the feeling of helplessness that sticks with a sex attack victim for the rest of their life, that helpless feeling can creep over you at any time. It can be on an elevator. You can be riding your car. Some act may trigger a memory and that stifling feeling of completely being helpless takes over. Well, here's what happens with trauma. Whatever is happening in the present that seems similar to what happened in the past will be seen as identical. I once treated a sex abuse victim. She grew up in the Ozarks.

She was assaulted by cousins, uncles, multiple family members. She told me that she felt psychologically like a baseball stop, like in a baseball game. Anybody could just like run over her and she was there for their pleasure. And she finally got into a wonderful marriage with a really wonderful man, but she couldn't have sex with him because at the moment of intercourse, she would imagine she was being raped. So she was doomed to a sexless marriage because of that phenomena you're talking about that the current trigger felt identical with the past traumatic event. And that will happen again and again for any of your listeners who have trauma.

That's what the flashback is. And also one quick note is that these sex traffickers, Jeffrey and Galen, turn these girls against their parents. And that's where the guilt lies, too, is what's called shared paranoia, which is you get the girls to talk about, oh, yeah, my mom, you know, she wouldn't let me go to the mall. She wouldn't let me use my phone. And they exploited that developmental stage in that way as well. To Charlie Langston, joining us, editor at DailyMail.com, who is one of the first to break the story of brand new charges against Ghislaine Maxwell. Point well taken, Chacon, not just pimp for millionaire perv Jeffrey Epstein, but also, according to the Fed, sex attacker herself. She denies all claims. Charlie Langston, what happens next?

Well, I think what we have to see now is how Ghislaine will respond to these new charges. As you said, she has pled not guilty to all six charges that we knew about before this updated indictment. We've discussed already, I do think that it makes a lot of sense for her defense team to try and delay. But I think what will also be really interesting, and this is something we've spoken about before, is whether this prompts Ghislaine to play ball, if you will, with the feds, whether she is going to say to them, okay, these charges are enough for me to roll over and start naming names. And that is where it gets incredibly controversial because we've already discussed the number of powerful people

that have connections to her. As small as those connections may be, she potentially holds a wealth of information that could well broaden this case and throw a lot of very powerful people into the spotlight. And that is likely what the feds are hoping will happen, that she will give them more information so that other people start being prosecuted and charged and so on and so forth. We wait as justice, God willing, unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast. God willing, unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend.