Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Alec Baldwin Tweets Buddha Quote, Angers Grieving Victim's Hubby

Episode Date: March 1, 2022

The husband of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins says comments made by Rust actor/producer Alec Baldwin makes him angry. Matthew Hutchins spoke out publicly for the first time to the Today Show. Hutchins said he “felt so angry” watching Baldwin claim he was not responsible for the 42-year-old mother’s death.. Halyna Hutchins died on the Santa Fe set of Rust after the gun Baldwin was handling fired a live round, hitting her and the film’s director Joel Souza. He suffered non-fatal injuries. Baldwin said in an ABC interview that he was told the gun was “cold,” meaning it did not contain any live bullets. Matthew Hutchins says he finds the idea that the person holding the gun is not responsible, absurd. The Hutchins family has filed a lawsuit against the film production.Joining Nancy Grace Today: Wendy Patrick - California prosecutor, author “Red Flags” www.wendypatrickphd.com 'Today with Dr. Wendy' on KCBQ in San Diego, Twitter: @WendyPatrickPHD Dr. Jorey Krawczyn [KRAW-ZIN] - Psychologist, Faculty Saint Leo University; Consultant Blue Wall Institute, Author: Operation S.O.S.  Paul Szych [ZIKE] - Former Police Commander, Author: "StopHimFromKillingThem" on Amazon Kindle, StopHimFromKillingThem.com, Twitter: @WorkplaceThreat, Screen Actors Guild-Eligible Actor, Experience using firearms with blanks during live action movie scenes (Terminator: Salvation) Dr. Michelle DuPre - Forensic Pathologist and former Medical Examiner, Author: "Homicide Investigation Field Guide" & "Investigating Child Abuse Field Guide", Former Police Detective Lexington County Sheriff's Department Alexis Tereszcuk - CrimeOnline.com Investigative Reporter, Writer/Fact Checker, Lead Stories dot Com, Twitter: @swimmie2009 Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Why won't he just be quiet? Now, that could really apply to a lot of people. But right now I'm talking about blockbuster movie star Alec Baldwin. In the last hours he's tweeted something out about being truthful and Buddhism. What? And it's coincidentally the same day that the grieving widow of Helena Hutchins speaks out about him shifting blame and sounding like he, Alec Baldwin, is the victim of the fatal rust set shooting that claimed the life of a wife, a mother of a little boy. Andros.

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. You know, I've enjoyed his movies. I've enjoyed him on Saturday Night Live. Not anymore. Not anymore. Not anymore. If you can't speak without taking blame or shifting blame to somebody else for Pete's sake, he had the gun in his hand when Alina was shot dead.

Just don't say anything. Just don't speak for Pete's sake. You know what? I believe Ms. Hutchins' husband says it all. I don't need to speak for him. Take a listen to Matt Hudges speaking to our friend Hoda on NBC. A member of the production team told me that Helena had been shot and my heart sank right away. Completely inexplicable to me that it could have happened at that moment. And the first thing I thought, I sat down and I said, I have to get my son because I had to be with him. I rushed home and on the way decided that we had to go to Santa Fe. And when I got through to the doctor and spoke with him and he detailed exactly what had happened and that she didn't survive, I mean, I was heartbroken.

And I knew that I had to tell my son right away when I saw him. It just had to be very direct and blunt, because going to pick him up and go to the airport to go to Santa Fe, I didn't want him to think that we were going to be seeing her and having fun together and getting his hopes up. I told him, sitting together, that his mother had been shot and died. And, of course, he didn't believe it right away. He didn't want to believe it. I'm just hearing that. How do you tell your little boy that mommy has been shot and is dead

and then load your child up in a car and take off to the scene of the shooting? Before I introduce our all-star panel, let me go first to Dr. Jory Cross, an psychologist, faculty, St. Leo University, and author of Operation SOS. Dr. Jory, I know I'm projecting again, but when my fiance, Keith, was murdered, all I wanted to do was get there. Because in my mind, I guess I thought maybe I could fix it. I did. I thought I could fix it. Then I convinced myself that it was wrong, that he was

not dead, that he was just in the hospital. And if I could just get there, I could fix it. I could tell the doctors to do something. I didn't know what, but something and save him. And I'm thinking about this dad just flying up the interstate to the airport to try to get there. What is that impulse? Well, it's trying to bring some kind of comprehension or coherence into this trauma, this traumatic situation. By him telling his son up front, I think that was a good thing because, like he explained, he didn't want them to think we're going out to visit mom.

And they can start the bonding and healing of the grief process together as father and son. But how can you do that when you don't really even know what's happened yet? Well, I mean, you know that she is dead. So you can start grieving from that point. And you can start, again, that bonding from father and son, trying to explain things, remembering good times. All of this is all that process that comes from that traumatic jolt. Again, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

And thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. Apparently, Alec Baldwin, megastar on the big screen and on TV, just can't stop talking. Take a listen to our friends at Inside Edition. The husband of cinematographer Helena Hutchins, who was accidentally shot and killed by Alec Baldwin, is breaking his silence. Just so angry to see him talk about her death so publicly in such a detailed way and then to not accept any responsibility after having just described killing her.

Matthew Hutchins tells the Today Show's Hoda Kotb that he finds it shocking that Baldwin is portraying himself as the victim. Hearing him blame Helena in the interview and shift responsibility to others and

seeing him cry about it, I just feel like, are we really supposed to feel bad about you, Mr. Baldwin? In the days after his wife was shot to death, Matthew Hutchins was seen embracing Baldwin. But now he says it's time for the actor to take responsibility for what happened. The idea that the person holding the gun, causing it to discharge, is not responsible is absurd to me. Well, I've got to agree with him, Matthew Hutchins, Helena's husband. But what exactly to Alexis Tereschuk, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. With me, Alexis Tereschuk, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags and host of Today with Dr. Wendy KCBQ. You can find her at WendyPatrickPhD.com. Dr. Jory Croson, psychologist and faculty

at St. Leo University, author of Operation SOS. Paul Zeich, former police commander and author of Stop Him from Killing Them on Amazon, Dr. Michelle Dupree, forensic pathologist, former medical examiner and author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Back to you, Alexis Teresha. What is Matthew Hutchins talking about when he is saying that Alec Baldwin is blaming his wife? So four months later, and Alec Baldwin gives an interview where he says, you know, someone was responsible for this death, but it wasn't me. OK, so Alexis Tereschuk, Baldwin is now saying it's not my fault. He is. He has said it was not my fault. It's somebody's fault.

But it certainly wasn't me. And but he was the one holding the gun. He was the one pointing it at her. He was the one holding it when it went off and shot her and in fact shot another person. And now Baldwin tweeting out something about being truthful in Buddhism. He did. OK, take a listen to our cut 11 and from NBC. Baldwin has not commented on the interview, but posted this cryptic message on social media.

In Buddhism, being truthful goes beyond simply not telling lies. When anyone feels no shame in telling a deliberate lie, there is no evil they will not do. The actor also posting this clip of Nina Simone singing, please don't let me be misunderstood. In an earlier statement, Baldwin's attorney says, any claim that Alec was reckless is entirely false. The Santa Fe County DA's office says, it's still investigating the shooting and has not decided whether to file criminal charges.

The FBI is doing ballistic tests and analyzing the revolver used in the shooting. The DA writing, while my office has reviewed weapons with similar actions in varying conditions, it is premature to guess or speculate about the functionality of the particular firearm Mr. Baldwin discharged. Whoa, he sounds like a cat in a room full of rocking chairs. He's really parsing his words. We've done a lot of tests on a lot of guns, but not that gun. So we don't know if Baldwin pulled the trigger or not. So in Buddhism, being truthful goes beyond simply not telling lies. What? It's very confusing. And I doubt pretty seriously, Alexis Tereschuk, that one of the

all-time greatest singers in the world, Nina Simone, may she rest in peace, wants to be dragged into this with Alec Baldwin. But it's also just so disrespectful. Like he, yes, you are an actor, but you are also a father. You are a husband. You should understand the devastation that this has caused for the family. And to put up a quote from a singer or a Buddhist quote, are you even a practicing Buddhist, Alec Baldwin? It's just a slap in the face to the family of the woman he killed. And you know what he said in that interview where he totally didn't take any blame at all? He said, someone put a live bullet in a gun, a live bullet that wasn't even supposed to be on the property.

I can't say who that is, but I know it's not me. Someone's responsible, but it's not. That reminds me so much, Wendy Patrick, at trial when I would try co-defendants together that all go like this, pointing at each other. Not me. Somebody did it, but it wasn't me. And another thing, Wendy Patrick, while I've got you, California prosecutor, author, red flags. From my understanding, Matt Hutchins, the husband, he's no idiot. He didn't just fall off the turnip truck. I understand that he is a Harvard educated lawyer. Yeah,

you know, it is really hard to hear, especially I can imagine being a lawyer. Matthew is listening to Baldwin say, I'm not responsible, when he was the one with the gun in his hand. So what Baldwin is trying to say, remember, he's a civil defendant here. He's trying to say,

I'm guilty of killing her, not murdering her. But that's not a distinction with a difference to a grieving family. And we see that sometimes in cases like this. That's why it's so hard, no doubt, for Matthew and others to listen to this. Why has Alec Baldwin changed his tone, by the way? He just said something that really struck me wrong. Not that you're inaccurate, but you're right. This is a civil proceeding.

But why is this not a criminal proceeding? I don't have any belief that Alec Baldwin meant to shoot a person, much less Helena Hutchins. I don't think he meant to. But there is such a thing as reckless homicide. And that's why the DA is still looking at it. And she was very clear. Why are they still looking? What's happening? Well, according to their office, and I think you just played a little bit of the clip,

they're still analyzing the evidence. But they've had a long time to do that between the killing and between now. So it's a great question as to why criminal charges aren't there. It's easy to understand why a civil suit's been filed. Was that your Paul Zeit jumping in? Who is that? Yes, it is. Jump in.

So bottom line is he's a film producer, star of the film, and the big name on the set. Nobody's going to tell him what to do or what not to do. He took possession of the firearm. He aimed the firearm, and he caused the firearm to discharge. From a beyond a reasonable doubt, that's going to take some time and they're taking some time to put that together from the preponderance of the evidence the civil suit that's a slam dunk speaking of alec baldwin and what are you saying now other than tweeting out buddhist comments take a listen to seven and this is him speaking with our friends at abc and she says to me hold

the gun lower go to your right right. Okay, right there. All right, do that. Now, turn a little bit lower. And she's getting me to position the gun. Everything is in her direction. She's guiding me through how she wants me to hold the gun for this angle. And I draw the gun out and I find a mark.

I draw the gun out, I find a cut. And what's really urgent is the gun wasn't meant to be fired in that angle. So if you're shooting directly into the camera lens you're not aiming i'm not shooting into the camera lens i'm shooting just off just off right in her direction i'm holding the gun where she told me to hold it which ended up being aimed right in below her armpit was what i was told i don't know this was a completely incidental shot an angle that may not have ended up in the film at all. But we kept doing this

so then I said to her, now in this scene I'm going to cock the gun. And I said, do you want to see that? And she said, yes. So I take the gun and I start to cock the gun. I'm not going to pull the trigger. I said, do you see that? She goes, well just cheat it down and tilt it down a little bit like that. And I cock the gun and go, can you see that? Can you see that? Can you see that? And she says, and then I let go of the hammer of the gun and the gun goes off. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We kept doing this news. So then I said to her, now in this scene, I'm going to cock the gun. I said, do you want to see that? And she said, yes. So I take the gun and I start to cock the gun. I'm not

going to pull the trigger. I said, do you see that? She goes, well, just cheat it down and tilt it down a little bit like that. And I cocked the gun. I go, can you see that? Can you see that? Can you see that? And she says, and then I let go of the hammer of the gun and the gun goes off. That's, I believe it's that portion of his statements that is just stabbing the victim's family in the heart. She told me to do it. She told me to do this. She said, yes, I can see now why Matthew Hutchins is so angry. Take a listen to our cut 10 in our friends at NBC. See him talk about her death.

Matthew Hutchins expressing his grief and anger at Alec Baldwin for comments the actor made following the Russ tragedy. Just so angry to see him talk about her death so publicly. Hutchins has filed a wrongful death suit against Baldwin and other members of the production team, telling Hoda he takes issue with Alec Baldwin's account of the fatal incident. I'm holding out that i'm just showing i go how about that does that work do you see that do you see that he says she goes yeah that's good i let go of the hammer bang the gun goes mr baldwin goes out there and talks about these details about how he caused the gun to discharge and yet takes no responsibility and

and in my mind it's just very simple that he was holding the gun and caused it to go off. Baldwin has not commented on the interview. And also insists he did not pull the trigger. Take a listen to our cut eight in our friends at NBC. I let go of the hammer, the gun, the gun goes off at the moment. That was the moment the gun went off. Yeah, that was the moment it wasn't in the script for the trigger to be pulled well the trigger wasn't pulled i didn't pull the trigger so you never pulled the trigger no no no no i would never point a gun at anyone and pull a trigger at them never never that was the training that i had you don't point a gun at me and pull the trigger on day one of my instruction in this business people said to me never take a gun and go click

click click click click because even though it's, you damage the firing pin on the gun if you do that. Don't do that. And Hall's attorney told ABC News that he was watching and agrees that Alec did not pull the trigger and that his finger was outside the trigger guard. So you have this Colt.45, you just pulled. The hammer as far back as I can without cocking the actual. And you're holding on to the hammer. I'm holding on. I'm holding it. I'm just showing her.

I go, how about that? Does that work? Do you see that? Do you see that? She goes, yeah, that's good. I let go of the hammer. Bang, the gun goes. That's what we're hearing.

Now we understand why an inspection of that weapon is so critical to Dr. Michelle Dupree, forensic pathologist and former medical examiner, author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Why is it so critical that the tests are appropriately run, the ballistic tests, on the shooting weapon? Well, Nancy, you're going to look at the bullet and you're going to look at the bullet that's recovered after a test firing. And you're going to be able to say that, yes, this is definitely the gun. This is definitely the weapon that shot this person and, in fact, killed them. And it's just sort of, you know, dotting your I's and crossing your T's. It's also making sure that the weapon didn't malfunction, that it's a functioning weapon,

and so it was not, quote, accidental. What about it, Paul Zyke? Okay, so that hammer and that type of weapon, it's a single-action firearm. So if he's pulling that hammer back, and he weapon, it's a single-action firearm. So if he's pulling that hammer back, and he's doing a great job with playing with words, he's pulling the hammer back, no finger on the trigger. If he pulls that back and he doesn't pull it back far enough to where that hammer locks, by him releasing the hammer with his thumb and that hammer going forward using the the firing pin on the hammer striking the cartridge and the weapon goes off so he is he he's misrepresenting the truth and

telling the truth at the same time by saying i didn't pull the trigger okay you know what i have no doubt paul's like that you're right but i don't know anything you just said. Can you just speak to me like I have never prosecuted a shooting death? Just tell me what you just said in simple words, because you can't pull the trigger and not pull the trigger. You can't shoot and not shoot. Right. I may not know a lot, but I know that much. Both statements can be correct. That single action firearm, that Colt 45, does not have to have the hammer pulled all the way back and you don't have to pull the trigger. He can pull the hammer partially back and let go of it. And that hammer still has enough force to go forward, strike the

cartridge and fire the gun. And it sounds like that is what happened in this case. So, Wendy Patrick, even under the scenario that Alec Baldwin has painted for us, speaking to our friends at ABC, he is still responsible for the shooting, whether he pulled the trigger or not, if Paul Zeich is correct. And that's why Paul Zeich would be my number one expert witness. He'd be the star of the show, because that's the issue here, is negligence. And was it some sort of negligent supervision? Remember, Baldwin was also the executive producer. So there's different levels of liability a jury can look at. But that's exactly it. They're going to have to prove that what he did with that gun, the way he manipulated it, let's just call it that, did not violate some sort of standard of care.

It might be an uphill battle. Paul Zeit, will you say it one more time? Just as few words as necessary. The manipulation of the firearm that Alec Baldwin engaged in was enough to cause that firearm to discharge with or without the pulling of the trigger, the end. The way he, Alec Baldwin, is handling the gun, whether he pulled the trigger or not, resulted in the bullet ejecting. Is that what you just said? Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's because he helped pull the hammer back.

Explain to everybody what the hammer is. The hammer is simply the thing that you would grab with your thumb. It's where it's, you know, located about where your thumb is. And in a single action firearm again not all firearms have hammers this one does you pull back the hammer and pull the trigger yeah well if it locks if the hammer pulls all the way back and locks you then have to pull the trigger to get it to fight to fire if you pull it back and say three force the way back where it doesn't lock and then you let go of the hammer there's still enough

energy and that hammer dropping to hit to use the hit the cartridge itself with with that hammer and cause it to fire and bottom line if it wasn't aimed at a person even if that were the case and he just dropped the hammer nobody would have been been shot. But in fact, it was aimed at somebody while that happened. Okay, that makes sense. Jump in. Legally, the big issue is going to be who should have known there was a live bullet in the gun. I mean, that seems to be what a lot of people are focusing on that work on the set. But Wendy Patrick, I mean, you've handled guns in front of a jury. The first thing, I hate guns to start with, but whenever I would prosecute a case, I would have to handle the gun. And the first thing you do is pick it up, pointing down, open it in front of the jury, look yourself to make sure there's no bullets in it,

shake it so the jury knows there's no bullets in it and either leave the chamber out or rack it back in and then handle it. Everybody in their right mind knows you have to check to see if there's a bullet in there. And if there had been, well, there was a live round in there. He would have seen that if he had checked. Yeah, that's exactly right. And that's what is the focus right now is why didn't he check? Should he have checked? Was he trained to check?

And his talking continually about the case is not helping him. He said he was trying and quoting out some Buddhist quote is not helping anything. Listen to 9N. This is Baldwin still talking on ABC. Everyone is horrified. They're shocked. It's loud. They don't have their earplugs in. No one was.

The gun was supposed to be empty. I was told I was handed an empty gun. There were cosmetic rounds and nothing with a charge at all. A flash round. Nothing. She goes down. I thought to myself, did she faint? The notion that there was a live round in that gun did not dawn on me until probably 45 minutes to an hour later.

45 minutes to an hour? Well, she's laying there, and I go, did she get hit by wadding? Was there a blank? Sometimes those blank rounds have a wadding inside that packs, it's like a cloth that packs the gunpowder in. Sometimes wadding comes out and can hit people, and that packs the gunpowder in sometimes wadding comes out and can hit people and it could feel like a little bit of a poke but no one could understand did she have a heart attack because remember the idea that someone put a live bullet

in the gun was not even in reality did you go up to her did you buy one and then we were immediately were told to get out of the building we were forced to get out of the building the medics came in i mean i stood over her for 60 seconds and she just laid there kind of in shock. Was she conscious? My recollection is yes. He couldn't see the blood? Now, see, when you say he didn't know she was shot for 45 minutes to an hour, he thought she may have passed out or got hit by the wadding in the gun.

That's not what we're learning on an immediate 911 call. Take a listen to our cut 16 in. They were butt-doubled over the AD and the camera woman and the director. They're clearing the road. Can you come back?

We're back in the town. Take a call and we're back in the western town. Is there any serious bleeding? I don't know. I ran out in the town. I think it called me. We're back in the western town. Is there any serious bleeding? I don't know. I ran out of the building. That's fine. I still have to go through these, okay? Are they completely alert?

We don't know. Jamie? Hello? Hi. I have a protocol of questions I need to ask. If you could just answer them the best you can, okay? Are they completely alert? Yeah, they are alert.

What part of the body was injured? I'm not sure. I'm not in there. Okay, fine. Is there more than one wound? I think there's one on two individuals. One wound on two individuals? Okay. Yeah. Okay, I'm sending the ambulance up you now. Stand in line. I'll see exactly what to do next, okay? Okay. I'm going to tell you how to stop the bleeding. Listen carefully. Make sure we do it right. We do have a medic on set. A medic on set? They're already doing that? I believe so, yeah. Is the bleeding controlled? Let's see if I'm allowed to get it. So, immediate calls from 911. They obviously know people have been shot.

But Alec Baldwin says 45 minutes to an hour goes by before he realizes she didn't just faint or get hit by the wadding. Yet he says he was standing over her. Did he not say that, Alexis Tereszczuk? That's exactly what he said. And I'm so glad you just played that 911 call because it's a complete contradiction. The woman who placed the 911 call immediately said there's been an accidental shooting on the set. So how did Alec Baldwin not know when he's in the room? And then where they say there's a medic taking care of her and they weren't letting people back in, the woman, the operator who was trained to teach people how to stop the bleeding, wasn't even, they weren't even allowed to go back in to help, which they clearly needed because she didn't make it. And Baldwin, you have to remember, is a very, very, very good actor, an award winning actor.

And he's had months now to change his story, to come up with a different plan, to come up with a different version of what happened. To Dr. Michelle Dupree, forensic pathologist joining us, former medical examiner, what were Helena's injuries exactly? Well, she was actually shot and bled to death. So we call that exsanguination. She was shot in the upper part of her body. I don't know what organs or vessels that actually hit, but it was certainly enough to cause her to bleed to death. How could he stand over her and not know she was bleeding out right there? I do not understand that.

I don't understand that either. And, you know, this is what we've learned. A small lie, for instance, I didn't know for 45 minutes that she had been shot. When you know he also said he stood over her for 60 seconds at least following the shooting, the two of those can't be true. At a trial, a jury is instructed by the judge. It's the black and white letter of the law. If you find a defendant has lied in part or in whole, you can throw out their entire testimony and disregard it. Why would he say that? Take a listen to our cut five. And this is Helena Hutchins' husband speaking to our friend Hoda. He said essentially he felt grief but no guilt. Almost sounds like he was the victim and hearing him blame Helena in the interview and and shift

responsibility to others and and seeing him cry about it I just feel like are we really supposed to feel bad about you Mr. Baldwin. So do you think that the majority of the blame lays on Alec Baldwin? The idea that the person holding the gun, causing it to discharge, is not responsible is absurd to me. Every individual who touches a firearm has a responsibility for gun safety. But gun safety was not the only problem on that set. There were a number of industry standards that were not practiced, and there's multiple responsible parties. Well, he's right about that.

The husband of Helena Hutchins describing a very lax attitude towards safety on the set of Rust, the movie, the major motion picture that Alec Baldwin was filming. Take a listen to Our Cut 6N. This is Matt Hutchins again speaking. The suit, which alleges at least 15 safety practices were disregarded on set, claims there was a wider culture of cost-cutting that ultimately led to Helena's death. In a statement, Baldwin's attorney says any claim that Alec was reckless is entirely false. In your mind's eye, what does justice look like? We're pursuing justice every way we can with the lawsuit seeking to hold accountable the people who are responsible for Helena's death, which was totally preventable.

In the end, you know, justice won't bring Helena back, but maybe the memory of her can help keep people safe and prevent something like this from ever happening again. I can tell you another thing it will do, seeking justice, and that is help ease the suffering of her little boy, eight years old. Ambrose will grow up one day and if no one does anything about this shooting of his mother, he will feel helpless the rest of his life. You never get over that. I've spoken to so many adults that were child victims of crime. And one of the main things they suffer the rest of their lives is nobody did anything. Nobody did the right thing. Nobody protected my mother. No one avenged

her death. Nothing. And that is so wrong and I don't understand why the prosecutor is sitting on his thumb. Alexis Tereshchuk, what's happening there? Is he afraid a movie star might get mad at him and trash him on TV? It seems like what they're trying to do is make sure they have all their T's crossed

and their I's dotted by testing this gun. Because they've said they've tested other kinds of guns, but this one they have never done a test on. Why? They don't know. Why? It's a prop gun, but it's only this gun.

I know, but why haven't they done a test, Alexis? I do not know why they haven't done a test yet. Well, I can tell you this much. How long did it take to get Alec Baldwin's cell phone? Because let's look at those phone calls. He went outside and got on the cell phone after Helena was shot. What was he saying? What was he texting?

Did he say, oh, my stars, I just shot someone. It was an accident. I don't think I pulled the trigger. Is that what he said or did he say something very different? How long did it take to get a cell phone, Alexis? It took absolute months. And there's I'm not sure what kind of investigative tools they have, but there are lots of ways to actually delete things off

of cell phones in in even one hour. So they they waited so long. It took so long. Months. Didn't it take months to get a cell phone? I mean, he was pictured holding talking on the cell phone in public weeks and weeks after the shooting, the same cell phone he was he was pictured holding talking on the cell phone in public weeks and weeks after the shooting the same cell phone he was using after the shooting immediately after the shooting alexis yes and they didn't get it he is what with all the talk and the interviews that he wasn't responsible he is not really cooperating doesn't appear that he's cooperating with the investigation very much well jump in real quick so you, the other thing you don't have to be quick. I want to hear the whole thing. Okay. This is a workplace, right? This is something that somebody has an obligation to make sure it's secure. People

are expected to come to work, perform their duties and go home. And that is a double shock to the husband, the kid. How could that possibly happen? It's a movie set. The word prop gun was just used here. That is not what this was. This is a full functioning deadly weapon. As far as why has it not been tested, so to speak, it's because of the allegations that it malfunctioned. So they're going to have to take this weapon and put it under a host of different circumstances to see if there's any way possible due to the mechanism being worn down, the things inside the gun that are meant to be fail-safe. Did they or could they have failed? Because that's going to be his big defense is that this malfunctioned, this didn't do what it was supposed to do.

And, and he's going to put a lot on that. Well, him aiming the firearm at this person's going to, you know, certainly mitigate a lot of his attempt to say it malfunctioned, but, but it's going to take a lot of testing to make sure, no, that's impossible. That didn't happen. And I think that's what the delay is. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The response of Baldwin's family has come under fire.

Take a listen to our Cut 12 and our friend Jim Murray at Inside Edition. Alec Baldwin and his family are doing what they can to get back to normal, posting images of a festive Halloween. Baldwin is dressed up as a creature from the children's book Where the Wild Things Are. His wife, Alaria, is glammed up as a spider witch, matching two of their daughters. Alaria posted, parenting through this has been an intense experience, to say the least, referring to the accidental shooting death of cinematographer Helena Hutchins. We're also learning about Helenaena hutchins final and haunting words as she lay dying after alec baldwin fired the fatal shot moments before baldwin fired the

gun during rehearsals which he had been told was not loaded he announced i guess i'm gonna take this out pull it and go bang the bullet hit the 42 year old woman in the chest then a fatally wounded hutchins spoke these haunting last words. That was no good. That was no good at all. It's an active investigation in terms of a woman dying. She was my friend. She was my friend. I don't think anyone believes for a moment that Baldwin meant to shoot Helena Hutchins.

That's never been on the table. Then why keep the cell phone and not hand it over? What were his immediate texts? Who did he call? Can they tell us what Baldwin was saying in the immediate aftermath of Helena Hutchins' shooting death. What is the response? What does the ballistics report show? Not on a facsimile, but on the actual weapon itself. Is Baldwin's statement even possible? Is it possible that what he's saying happened did happen? And if he is telling the truth to you, Dr. Jory Crawson,

I think he would get a lot more respect if he said, I did it. I didn't mean to do it. It was an accident. Do you notice how he shifted? He admitted, you know, like that no guilt. But then in his quote from Buddha, it talks about feel no shame. Guilt is personal. Shame is public.

You look at what he's doing now. He's doing everything public to downplay or alleviate this shame. He's an actor and he's doing a good job. Look at the pictures they put out on Halloween. You know, it's like now it's in a recovery mode of his persona in the public. Much has been made of an embrace shared by Alec Baldwin with the husband, Matthew Hutchins. Take a listen to our cut for in our friend Hoda at NBC. Alec Baldwin called you afterwards and it was an embrace and a meal. Tell me what that was like.

Well, I feel like to understand that moment, you have to remember the shock we were in. And I spoke with Mr. Baldwin and was just looking for a way through the storm. Did he seem distraught during that time? There were a lot of emotions, for sure, on both sides. Hutchins, who's filed a civil suit against Baldwin and other producers and crew members on the film, now expressing outrage with Baldwin's recent interview, where he says the actor shifted blame over the death of his wife, Helena. I feel that someone is responsible for what happened, and I can't say who that is, but I know it's not me. But watching him, I just felt so angry, just so angry to see him

talk about her death so publicly in such a detailed way and then to not accept any responsibility after having just described killing her. And here is more of Helena's husband, the father of their child. Our cut one in once again speaking to our friend Hoda at NBC. When do you miss her the most? I saw a picture of her smiling the other day and I just thought, you know, she'll never smile again. And that's really hard. I didn't know her, but I know you loved her. I mean, that's a parent sitting across from you in this moment. When you first met Helena, was it wow? Was it like fireworks?

What was it like? Pretty much. Was it? You knew right away? It was pretty magical meeting her. It was love at first sight. Matt Hutchins traveling 2,000 miles to Ukraine, Helena's native country, to propose, getting engaged only three months after they met.

Well, I like to trust my intuition on matters of the heart. And I was like, well, I can just get on a train and go 2,000 miles and get there. That's what love does. Wow. And it was along the way where I decided to propose. And I got down on my knees and said, let's get married. And now he's focused on dealing with Alec Baldwin's statements in the press and cryptic Buddhist quotes about the truth or a partial truth. I'm not quite sure what he's trying to say.

And working on what we call a re-cre. Tell me, Alexis Torres-chuk, what does the re-creation show? So it is, you'd almost call it an animated video. And it shows, it starts off showing the church, which was the set that they were filming on. It's an old Western movie. And it shows it from the outside, and then you go inside, and it shows a person, it's then you go inside and it shows a character a person that's clearly alex baldwin being handed a gun and this is by dave halls who was the assistant director

and he but he is not the armorer remember that the woman who was the armorer who was in charge of all the weapons was kept outside of the building because of COVID protocol. So she was not there. She gave it to him. The person, the character hands Baldwin a gun. He is seen tucking it into a holster inside his costume, which is like a jacket and a shirt. And then it shows him pulling it out and then it bangs. And you hear it's an actual very loud bang and it

and you see a burst of fire and then she sort of grabs herself and there's a noise and then shows her falling to the ground. To you Dr. Michelle Dupree joining us forensic pathologist former medical examiner and author how does a recreate? And I know you've looked at it. How does that help the case? And what do you think of the recreation as it fits or doesn't fit with the injuries that we know of? Well, Nancy, this is a very good thing to do so that we can tell the trajectories. We can, as you said, verify the stories of what people saw or didn't see. And in this case, I think it actually helps us understand where Helena was hit and how she was hit. It verifies most of that as far as I can tell. And it also helps us get a better understanding of what might have been going through each person's mind at the time this actually happened. Alexis Tereshchuk, you have reported to me

that there are plans to enlarge the Baldwin family. There is a blind item on a gossip website that says that the family is, that they're considering having more children. The commenters are saying that it is Hilaria Baldwin. And they already have six children. And the blind item claims that this family is planning to expand their brood to distract from the attention, which everybody in every industry, whether you're a politician, whether you're an actor or the CEO of a big business, you always use something for distraction. So this could possibly be something that would distract. Having a seventh baby? Yes.

Take a listen now to our cut to in. This is Helena's husband speaking to Hoda. That ring he gave Helena, he now wears. Matt and Helena were happily married for 16 years, raising a loving son. There was a picture that struck me so deeply, and it was she and Andros nose-to-nose. And when I saw that, I thought, that's pure. She just felt that connection and just loved him so much.

And Helena calling every night from the Rust movie set to wish him good night. What were their conversations like? Well, they would get on video, night from the Rust movie set to wish him good night. What were their conversations like? Well, they would get on video and, you know, she would just do everything that she could as a mom to reassure him. You know, just give him kisses. And how did that make him feel when he saw her on video like that? I think it helped him get to sleep every night, knowing that she was thinking about him. I feel like in life we expect certain things to happen. We expect the sun to rise, we expect the sun to set, and we expect our

loved one to come home at night. Well, we certainly expected her to come home and to be there with us in our new home. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Gromstory signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.