Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - All-American Teen DEAD After Nude-Pix Swapped: SEXTORTION

Episode Date: August 16, 2023

Jordan DeMay was a popular, well-liked sports star at his Michigan high school. The 17-year-old took his own life just hours after someone demanded money to keep a compromising photo from being sent to his parents and friends. The extortionists, a group of men from Nigeria who have targeted more than 100 children and adults, initially contacted DeMay over a hacked social media account, posing as a teen girl who enticed Jordan into sending a nude photo. The sextortionist then flipped the script, pressuring DeMay to pay to keep the photo private. The teen sent everything he had, totaling $300. The perpetrators wanted more. Police say the entire sequence of events appeared to have taken about six hours, until deputies responded to the DeMay home just after 7:30 a.m. The family is now hopeful Jordan will receive justice. FBI agents, with help from Nigerian law enforcement tracked down the three men behind the international sextortion ring. Samuel Ogoshi, 22, and Samson Ogoshi, 20, have now been extradited from Lagos to Michigan to face charges related to sextortion and Demay's death. Authorities are still working to extradite a third suspect, Ezekiel Robert. Samuel Ogoshi faces a minimum of 50 years behind bars, his younger brother's charges carrying a minimum of 20 years in prison.  Joining Nancy Grace Today:   John DeMay- Jordan DeMay's father  David Tafuri- International lawyer, partner at ArentFox law firm,  https://www.afslaw.com/attorneys/david-tafuri, @DavidTafuri Dr. Angela Arnold-Psychiatrist, Atlanta GA, AngelaArnoldMD.com, Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women, Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University, Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital, Voted My Buckhead’s Best Psychiatric Practice of 2023 Irv Brandt - Senior Inspector, US Marshals Service International Investigations Branch, Chief Inspector, DOJ Office of International Affairs; Author: “SOLO SHOT: CURSE OF THE BLUE STONE” available on Amazon, Also "FLYING SOLO: Top of the World" @JackSoloAuthor Dr. Michelle DuPre- Forensic Pathologist, Medical Examiner and Detective: Lexington County Sheriff's Department, Author: "Homicide Investigation Field Guide" & "Investigating Child Abuse Field Guide", Forensic Consultant, DMichelleDupreMD.com Elizabeth Peterson- Morning News Anchor & Reporter for WLUC TV6, uppermichiganssource.com, Facebook: Elizabeth Peterson TV6     See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. How does a boy, an all-American boy scrubbed in sunshine, somehow get tangled up with what is known as a sextortion ring. When I say all-American, that's just what I mean. When you think American boy, you think of this kid. You think of Jordan DeMay. In the last hours, a stunning bombshell in the case. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. First of all, take a little pop pass. That's picked off. Going the other way. Jordan DeMay read it perfectly. That's a pick six.

First turnover of the game, Jordan DeMay. He was an all-American teenager. The homecoming king, beloved by his classmates. This is one of those cases that I will remember the rest of my life. It happened when Jordan received a message on his Twitter account that appeared to come from a beautiful teenager who said she wanted to be his friend. She even asked him to send her a naughty photo. He was suspicious and even asked if it was a scam. Assured it wasn't, he sent the photo. Right away, Jordan realized he was being blackmailed.

They threatened to send the photo to his family and all his friends at school. He had to get money. They told him $1,000. He said, I don't have that. How much do you have? $300. We'll get rid of everything, send that $300. So he sent it.

It didn't stop. At the beginning, you were hearing an announcer at a Michigan high school game where Jordan was the star of the game yet again, followed by our friends at Inside Edition and Sheriff Greg Zybert. What happened? Why did this teen boy, and I can't stress it enough, you know, very often people somehow shame crime victims, such as, what was she doing out jogging at 4 a.m.? Or, this boy had a juvenile delinquent record. He'd been in and out of juvie hall. Nothing like that.

Nothing at all wrong. The least bit with Jordan DeMay. Just a great, great boy. Now that boy is gone, gone because of a sextortion ring. What is that? With me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now and a stunning development in the case. But first, I want to go to a very special guest that I've thought of a million times since I learned about Jordan's death. John DeMay is Jordan's father. Mr. DeMay, thank you for being with us. Thanks. We really appreciate the opportunity to share our story because, as you said, it's extremely important. And at this point, this is the legacy that we need to carry for Jordan and his story.

And in my opinion, we are saving thousands of lives by helping other teenagers and young people and parents learn about this and deal with it. I wish we were meeting under other circumstances, but by telling this story, Jordan's story for him and your story, just imagine, Mr. DeMay, all the lives you may be able to change. What happened the night that you heard an unusual sound in your home? Jordan took his own life on March 25th on an early Friday morning about 3.45 a.m. the day that we were poised to leave for a two-week Florida vacation. He received an Instagram message from what appeared to be a young lady who was reaching out for friendship. He received this first message around 10, 15-ish that Thursday evening and started communicating with her.

And wait, Mr. DeMay, the girl writing him, or so he thought, so cute, just off the chart cute. Of course he responded. And it's my understanding that the girl that ostensibly was writing him is a real person. Like if he had bothered to, which I doubt a teen boy is going to, but if he had bothered to look her up she was actually a real person that exists in the world yep absolutely yeah and that's that's the that's the part of the crime that makes it so hard uh that instagram account uh looking back on what we know now was was actually was was a hacked account so it was a real account with with real pictures of that real person so you had no no reason to believe that it wasn't her at the time.

Then what happened? The communication continued. The conversation escalated into probably more sexual content. We don't have a full transcript of what happened yet as part of the investigation, so we're not privy to a lot of the details, but as you can imagine, it progressed to the point where she being one, Danny Roberts was the Instagram user on the other end, the young female. She enticed him to take a nude photo of himself, which he did and sent

to her. At that time, once the photo was sent, then the script switched and the extortion happened immediately. That was somewhere just after midnight when that happened. And then from that point on, it was pure torture, pressure. When you say, Mr. DeMay, that the script switched around midnight,

he thinks he's talking to this cute teen girl, and they're going back and forth. I mean, he's a 17-year-old boy. She's enticing him. Of course, she starts talking about sex, and he follows right along. And she asks for this picture a nude picture he sends it and then you say that night florida vacation happening in seven or eight hours the script switches it's interesting the way you said that the the words you use what do you mean by that i just mean that

it once the picture was sent jordan was had, right? And they made it clear that they were not a young woman, but young men. And he realized that he had made a mistake at that point, I'm sure. And the demands for money started to happen, and they wanted money from him. And where is a teen boy going to get that kind of money? But he sends money. He agrees to send money, and then they want more. Yeah, that was part of the pressure tactic, I'm assuming, that they started out at around $1,000, and there was some negotiation that was happening between them.

And Jordan ultimately paid them around $300. And, you know, they were pushing him to get more, and he didn't have more, and he was trying to prove that he didn't have more. And they just kept on him and on him and on him. Didn't give him any time to breathe, any time to think, any time to move. And the embarrassment he felt he would suffer if that nude photo of him was sent to you,

his mom, his family, all of his friends. Can I tell you something? We have these Easter photos done and Christmas photos done every year. And they're really pretty of my daughter and son. They're really, well, they're beautiful. I'm just thinking about your son. And it's so interesting. My daughter, every year, even with these gorgeous photos, she says, Mom, please don't post it.

I look awful. And she's gorgeous. All right. So I'm just imagining it. Maybe other adults may not understand it, but they're actually very, very sensitive. And if she doesn't want her beautiful Easter photo sent out or posted. Can you imagine all you parents listening right now? What a teen boy, this awesome student, awesome football player, you know, king of the hill.

What that would mean to him and his world for that photo to go out to all of his friends. Mr. DeMay, I'm just thinking about all of this happening with your son and his family is right there probably asleep down the hall, having no idea the torment that he's going through. That's correct. I saw Jordan for the last time. He came home at 10.15, and I believe that's when he opened up his phone and saw the first messages right when he pulled in our driveway. And I was just about ready to go to bed because we had a long day the next morning traveling. Our other two kids were already asleep.

My wife was finishing up laundry and getting ready, final packing for our vacation. But I ran into Jordan outside on our patio for a brief moment as he was walking in. I was heading to the garage quick, and that was the last time I'd seen him. But looking back, that was literally minutes after he received his first message. And within 10 minutes, I was in bed sleeping, and I never saw him again. I woke up to finding him in his bedroom. I'm just trying to take in everything you're saying. I know it's hard for a lot of adults to understand,

but to a teen, having that embarrassment is overwhelming. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. With me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now. But in the last hours, a stunning turn in the case. First, I want you to take a listen to this. The pressure kept up to send more money. He said, you win. I'm going to kill myself. And they're like, go ahead. So they

actually responded when he said that he was going to kill himself. They responded, go ahead. Yes. From the time Jordan got the message until his death, just six hours had passed. Sheriff Greg Zybert has a message for teens. This can happen to you. if it does you need to reach out. Our hearts will forever be broken with a huge part of our lives missing. Jennifer Buta has been mourning the loss of her 17-year-old son Jordan DeMay who died by suicide on March 25th 2022. DeMay was a victim of sextortion. Sextortion is where someone demands money or sexual favors from an individual by threatening to reveal evidence of their sexual activity. As parents, we cannot begin to imagine what Jordan went through that night and how scared he was because of this senseless act. You were just hearing our friend Les Trent at Inside Edition and our friends at WNEM.

Joining me right now, Elizabeth Peterson, Morning News anchor, reporter, WLUC-TV6. Elizabeth, thank you for being with us. In the last hours, an extradition has gone down. Who is being held responsible for Jordan's death and where are they from? Yeah, two of the defendants have been extradited from Nigeria. They arrived and had their first hearing here in the United States. And we don't know a lot about them, but it was a successful extradition. There's a third defendant. That extradition is still pending. Extradition. What is it and how does it happen all the way from Nigeria? I mean, Mr. Demay, this is Jordan's dad.

What went through your mind when you realized that it was not some young girl sending photos to Jordan? It was two guys in Nigeria running a scam and it ended in Jordan's death. It was it was a lot of different emotions at that point it was it was um very difficult at first because we hadn't learned about what even happened to Jordan uh for a day to day and a half um so the first day day and a half we we had no idea uh we only learned about the once we learned about the the picture then there was almost a sense of relief a little bit because it wasn't an answer, but it was something.

You know, it was some sort of story that wasn't out yet, but we knew there was something behind this. And then to find out what actually happened a couple days later once law enforcement took over and investigated it past the FBI and they started their case and discovered that it was actually purposeful and that these were men. It's not surprising in today's world that it happened, but it was a shock that it happened to us, of course. And to learn that it was already something that was labeled sextortion. I mean, I hadn't heard that term yet. Again, it didn't surprise me that this sort of thing would happen online, but it was surprising that it was already something that was already labeled

and it was already happening quite often. Frankly, the FBI, I believe, had sent out publications just prior to Jordan's death about sextortion and the rise of these types of cases that were coming through the law enforcement communications. So it was just an overwhelming feeling of sadness and confusion, and it just changed every minute. Is it true that one of the photos, the photo of Jordan without his clothes on was sent to his girlfriend? Correct. So these guys, and I have their names, Samuel Ogoshi and Samson Ogoshi, two Nigerian nationals from Lagos that were sextorting Jordan and probably many, many other young teens in the U.S., they actually carried through with the threat in that they sent that photo to Jordan's girlfriend.

And they probably sent it under the guise, the disguise of being Danny. So the girlfriend gets a naked photo of her boyfriend, and's from another girl ostensibly did that happen i don't have the particulars um how exactly that happened but i can infer that that that's probably the way that that worked out i know that she did receive the photo that is the only person that we're aware of at this point that actually received it they went through great lengths during the extortion part to make Jordan believe that they actually sent that picture out. They have a process that they use like any other business and they create fake screenshots, they create collage photos, and they put all this media together to make you feel like they're really sending this out to everybody.

So as they're asking for more money, they're saying, oh, look who we sent it to. Look who we sent it to. We're sending this person next. In reality, nobody received those photos. The only person that did was his girlfriend. And frankly, we're thankful that that happened because had she not received that photo, we probably would not even know what happened today. Why do you say that? Because there would have been no way to discover it. It was a suicide. It was investigated by the sheriff's department appropriately, and it would have been a case closed suicide.

His social media accounts, he erased everything before he died. So Jordan was trying to cover up his tracks a little bit, probably an embarrassment piece. So when at face value, there wasn't anything out of the ordinary. So you would never have known. You're absolutely correct, Mr. DeMay. Dr. Angela Arnold joining me, renowned psychiatrist out of the Atlanta jurisdiction at AngelaArnoldMD.com. Dr. Angie, have you ever noticed that despair, depression, confusion seems to overtake people and it gets worse at night? Is that real or is that just anecdotal? Because here this little boy is, he's a teen boy living with his family and in the middle of the night he ends up dead out of despair and

embarrassment is that real that it's worse at night it is and nancy because people are more vulnerable at night you're tired by the end of the day what i believe that what we need to understand as adults is the is how our children use social media. We don't completely understand it, Nancy, because we didn't grow up in this age. But social media is a lot to these kids. And they connect with their friends. They instantly connect with their friends. They share their lives through photos and things like that.

And these predators know that. Okay. Then the other point I want to bring up is that you add that to the fact that it really is true, Nancy, that kids' brains are not fully developed until they're 25 years old. Okay. So it's not unusual what this sweet little wonderful boy did. It is not unusual. Unfortunately, kids do it all the time because somebody asked for a picture of them and it's a beautiful girl and they, you know, they, they get all, you know, fluttery inside and they do what she says. They lose their sense of right and wrong because they're

little, Nancy. They're young. Their brains are not developed. You and I can easily put that away, right? We can say, uh-oh, there might be some trouble there, but we have age and experience and our brains are developed. They do not. So then they, isn't it interesting that they get him at night when he's already vulnerable?

I'm sure the child had very, very busy days, right? He's vulnerable at night. Then some beautiful girl, I mean, Nancy, I don't know about you, but Nancy, people like send me messages on Instagram all the time, these weird men, and they go, hello. And I automatically hit block and delete. I think anyone who has a presence on the Internet is vulnerable for this. Guys, I want you to take a listen to our cut 16, our friends at WNEM and LUC. It turns out the Marquette native was wrapped up in what authorities are calling an international sextortion ring.

Three men are accused of targeting more than 100 minors and adults in a sextortion scheme. After a lengthy investigation between local, state, and federal agencies, three men from Nigeria are set to be extradited to the U.S. to face criminal charges. Three men from Nigeria purchased hacked social media accounts, created fake users, and ultimately persuaded Demay to send a sexually explicit photo, which they used to extort him for money. When he wasn't able to pay them enough, he died by suicide. Joining me now is a very well-known and respected international lawyer, David Tafuri. And you can find him at David Tafuri at Errant Law Firm. David, thank you for being with us. Explain this whole process of extradition.

I assume that we have a treaty with Nigeria. How does it work? Yes, we have a treaty with Nigeria. It actually goes all the way back to 1931, when Nigeria was a colony of the United Kingdom. And so when we engaged in a entered into a treaty for extradition with the United Kingdom, it included all of the United Kingdom's colonies. After Nigeria became independent, I believe in the 1960s, it continued to be a bilateral party to that treaty with the U.S. It's also notable for this case that the U.S. is the largest investor in Nigeria. We have had very close relations between the U.S. and Nigeria over recent years. It's probably one of the most important countries for the U.S. and Africa. That's important because that's probably how the FBI and the Department of Justice were able to secure the cooperation of law enforcement

authorities in Nigeria in order to apprehend these individuals and take them through the extradition process. Extradition can be very complicated, and it's not easy to accomplish. Importantly, you have to have committed a crime that is a crime in both countries, both the country where you are and the country that is seeking to extradite you. And many times, people who are overseas are able to avoid extradition with various defenses. It also can be a long legal process. In this case, it happened quite quickly. And I'm pretty amazed. And I think that's because of the importance of this case. And because the US law enforcement authorities probably really wanted to make a statement to set an example to try and deter

others in Nigeria or other countries in Africa from doing this. And because of the tragedy of this case, they wanted to make a statement. And so they've accomplished that by getting these individuals brought back here. Of course, they still are innocent until proven guilty under our legal system. But they'll go through a trial here. And the evidence sounds overwhelming. So you can expect probably that they will be convicted. But let's see. David Tafuri is joining me, a renowned international lawyer. Got a couple of questions following up.

And, you know, John DeMay is with us. This is Jordan's dad. All he knows at that time is his son is dead. No idea of all of this swirling so far away in Nigeria, of all places. David Tafuri, why do you say that Nigeria is one of the single most important countries to the U.S. in Africa? Well, Nigeria is one of the largest countries in Africa. It's in West Africa. It's strategically a very important place. It's a place where we have put in a lot of investment. It's also a country, by the way, where we are competing with China to have a strong relationship. It's a country that there are other countries in Africa that have been affected by terrorism, by transnational criminal groups.

And we're trying very hard to make sure that Nigeria stays stable, that it doesn't become a failed state, that it doesn't become subject to transnational criminal organizations. And so these are all important reasons. We want Nigeria, because it's such a big country and it's so important to the stability of the continent, we want it to be stable. We want it to be a close friend, a close ally. We have a large presence in Nigeria. I'm sure the U.S. Embassy in Nigeria was involved in this in terms of going to the Nigerian government and conveying to the Nigerian government how important it is for them to cooperate on this case so that they can apprehend these individuals. Also notably, Nigeria is a place where there are a lot of cyber fraud cases. A lot of cyber fraud emanates from Nigeria. And Nigeria, the Nigerian government, has been trying to crack down on this. And this would also be an instance where the Nigerian government wanted to demonstrate to the U.S. that they are cracking down on these types this would also be an instance where the nigerian government wanted to demonstrate to the u.s that they are cracking down on these types of cyber crimes especially given the tragic

result from this one the i am a nigerian prince email i guess has gone out to everybody as a scam or i am stranded in nigeria um help me i'm in nigeria Nigeria. Nigeria seems to be the source of a lot of online Internet fraud. But how was this teen boy supposed to know that? No way. Nothing was a red flag in his mind. And even if this teen boy, Jordan, had thought, wow, is this woman for real? Is this girl for real? If he looked her up, her computer, well, her online services had been hacked as well. This is a real girl who these Nigerian defendants had hacked. So when we say we need cooperation, joining me now, Irv Brandt,

Senior Inspector, U.S. Marshal Service, International Investigations, Chief Inspector, DOJ of International Affairs, author of Solo Shot and Flying Solo, both on Amazon. What I mean is Irv Brandt has traveled all around the world on behalf of the U.S. government to, let me just just say make things happen within our justice system what we need is the Nigerian government to go and find these guys to arrest them to bring them in and then agree to an extradition process that's a lot when you are prosecuting your own cases and then suddenly you get a request for somebody so far away in the U.S. to go do their business, you're like, oh, H-E-L-L-N-O. No. They did it.

They did it for us, for Jordan, for his father, for his mother. And now we have these defendants in our clutches. Can I give you an example of extradition gone wrong? Think about Roman Polanski, the famous filmmaker who drugs and rapes a little girl in his hot tub and then goes to France. France refuses to extradite him to the U.S. Think about it. Think about Caitlin Armstrong. According to police, she just gunned down a beautiful young biker, bicyclist, a world-class biker over a love spat. She flees to Costa Rica, has plastic surgery, lives under the radar. You know how we got her back? It's not because Costa Rica said, hey, yeah, I'll help you extradite her.

It's because of a visa or passport violation. So when a country doesn't cooperate with us, we have problems. Irv Brandt, how did this go down and would you agree? There are a lot of countries in this world that they don't give a flying fig about the U.S. or justice in the U.S. or Jordan Dume or his parents wanting justice. They don't care. But Nigeria did cooperate. That's correct, Nancy. And we've discussed it on many times before, especially in places like Mexico, on how we can get the cooperation of Mexican authorities to investigate cases properly. So this is a stunning success. I'm very impressed with the FBI and the efforts of the Office of International Affairs, but more to how impressed I am with the Ministry of Justice

in Nigeria to get their law enforcement to cooperate with the Federal Bureau of Investigation to do a joint investigation in Nigeria to identify these suspects, have them arrested, then have them extradited so quickly. They did this. I'm just stunned. I was at the Office of International Affairs as a chief inspector. And if you would have asked me, how long will it take? I would have told you years. Oh, gosh.

And I just thank God in heaven that we've got these guys in a U.S. courtroom. It's going to happen. I want to go to Dr. Michelle Dupree joining us, forensic pathologist, medical examiner, and lucky for me, former detective. She literally wrote the book Homicide Investigation Field Guide. And she shot to the national forefront during the case of Alex Murdoch. May he rot in hell. Dr. Dupree questioned, it's so upsetting to see any death, much less a teen, a child death, much less a child suicide. I mean, he's gone before his life even really gets started. In your experience and what you know about the method and assessment of homicide and suicide, how common is this for teen boys and teen girls to commit suicide they're so emotional and they're

so vulnerable at this point in their lives yes nancy and all the condolences to the family of this young man this is so sad and i have seen it more times than you would want to see it it it is relatively common and it's because of this bullying by other kids, basically, or young men in this case. It's tragic. And I'm so thankful that something has been done about it, and especially when we have to have reached over so many different jurisdictions to get these guys and bring them back.

Kudos to all of those who participated in this. Dr. Dupree, did you know that teen suicides have jumped 29%? 29%. Among children between 15 and 19, suicide's second leading cause of death and is the leading cause of death for 14 to 15 year olds. I did not know that, Nancy, but I'm really not that surprised. Think about everything that our young people are going through today. You know, there was, I mean, not just the pandemic, but everything else that they are faced with, the stresses.

And, you know, it's a different world than when you and I were growing up. And a lot of us don't understand it. And they are consistently bullied more than you would suspect crime stories with nancy grace Prime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about a beautiful young boy. There's really no other way to put it. Jordan DeMay, just like Mary Poppins says, practically perfect in every way.

John DeMay is with me. This is Jordan's dad what is your recollection of that night and the following morning when Jordan lost his life oh the the night before was a pretty normal chaotic trying to get everything ready to leave on vacation for two weeks kind of night as anybody with three kids and two dogs is trying to do. So it was a pretty normal evening in that sense. Obviously, in the morning, I woke up. My two younger girls were getting up, and my wife had gotten up, and we were just kind of milling around, trying to get ready for the day.

And Jennifer, Jordan's mother, had sent me a text message and asked me if Jordan was, you know, if he was still home. And at that point, it was like 730 in the morning, which was really strange. And I looked out the window and I saw his car still in the driveway. And I thought that was awfully strange because he never misses school, ever. So at that point, I went downstairs to his bedroom. I opened up the door, and I found him in his bedroom. I guess when you first saw him, you couldn't believe it.

I was stunned, shocked, numb. My whole body was just failing me. I could barely stand up. Oh, Mr. DeMay, I'm so sorry. Just imagining, I guess every person listening to your voice right now is thinking of that moment. They go in and my daughter sets a clock and I can hear it. It sounds like some kind of a sitar.

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Playing some kind of song. Some ungodly early hour she gets up and I always go in and check on her in case she goes back to sleep. Then my son could sleep through a Mack truck coming through his window and I have to go literally get him up and I've done it a million times I'm just thinking about that moment when you opened the door and you see him what what did you do uh i just stood at his feet and started shaking and i i think i wasn't even trying to talk to him like why jordan you know why what happened and i remember i just slowly turned around and slowly walked back upstairs

and my wife and my two, and my one daughter was sitting on the couch and I told my wife that Jordan shot himself and my youngest daughter freaked out and my wife freaked out and everything started to happen from there. Life changed that morning. Mr. DeMay, what do you mean life changed that morning? I mean, obviously losing a child is the worst thing that can, one of the worst things that can happen to anybody. But it sent a lot of, well it started a lot of different things in our life personally,

outside from learning about this extortion and, and going public and doing all those great things. But, you know, we, we lived in a home that was going to be our forever home that we never went back to that night after that day. Um, we went back to finish things, but we ended up putting on the market shortly after sold it. And now we're building a new home.

Um, so just things like that. And, and the way we interact with our kids and the way that we, you know, just go about daily life, there's, it's just, um, it's just a different, it's a different world for us. And, you know, Jordan's always in our, in our thoughts and how we, in how we navigate the world. And it's even heightened more now with being able to come forward with what happened and share the story and really create this message that Jordan would be proud of as well. Mr. DeMay, what is your message? Our message is there are a lot of folks, and you know, we talked a little bit here with some very professional people about the suicide and the rates, and it's

actually absolutely tragic to hear that those numbers are so high. But, you know, let's be honest, you know, social media is not doing any favors for anyone not children certainly and not adults um and i think the message needs to be that um for parents it needs to be we need to pay more attention to what's happening online and start understanding a little bit more and uh for for kids that need younger people i shouldn't say kids young young young people and young adults even need to understand that the the nature of what social media is doing to you mentally. And our story is so left field. I mean, it doesn't happen to everybody, right? But let's boil it down into simple things. I'm sure you've had a lot of podcasts about bullying and

body shaming these young ladies and trying to get likes and feel goods and all the things. I mean, all that stuff is not healthy. It's just not healthy for people at all. So I think the message needs to be we need to slow down with that stuff. I think we need to go back to having real relationships with people, having real conversations, trying to get young people away from sending pictures and messages as sexual content. Have real relationships with people. Be out and about. Be alive. Enjoy the air. Look around. But at the end of the day, we have to tell people that if things happen, it's not the end of the world either.

Jordan's story is so tragic. This is something that probably we would have been laughing about in 10 or 15 years after he's graduated college and gotten married and had kids and bought his first home and, you know, got a career job and did all the things. You'd look back and kind of like, that was stupid, right? But in that moment, you can't. They're not old enough to understand. They're not developed enough to understand that with their life as they know it in that moment, that may be over. You know, Mr. DeMay, the other morning, Lucy was in the back of the minivan and my son John Dave was sitting

beside me. And I looked over at John Dave and he's usually the mayor of Funville and he was really quiet and looking down and kind of out the window. And I immediately knew something was wrong. I said, son, what is it? And he wouldn't tell me at first. And I said, son, I know something's wrong. What is it?

He said, mama, I don't think I'm going to have a 98 average. And I said, so what is the problem? I don't understand. He goes, Mom, I think it's going to be a 97. And he actually was, his whole face was white, just like paper white. He was so upset. They, in their world, they don't understand that tomorrow you're gonna feel better and when you just said mr. de may that one day when he you know

graduated and gets married he's buying his first house that you would laugh about a nudie that he took when he was 17 just I know you talked to him I know you talked to him because I talk to my dad all the time. What do you say to Jordan now? I try to talk to Jordan just about daily stuff.

How his sisters are doing and what we're up to and things that we've done that we wish he would have been part of. It just helps keep the message alive and keep Jordan alive and helps us heal, helps us move on. Do you ever feel that he answers you in some way? I do. I think that's natural for those feelings. Oftentimes, great things happen and,

you know, you'll get a rush of wind or the rain will just suddenly stop and it'll be a beautiful rainbow or, you know, those weird things that just happen in those moments. sometimes you just feel that presence. It's hard. It's good. It's refreshing. But I think those are the wins. Those are the good feels that we need to hold on to to keep us strong and keep our head up and keep pushing forward with everything. I hope and pray that your message is furthered today.

And I hope and pray for justice to the men that orchestrated Jordan's death. And let me tell everyone, the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline is 988. Like 9-1-1, it's 9-8-8. The Suicide and Crisis Lifeline is 988. Like 911? It's 988. So simple. So easy. It can make all the difference in the world. We wait as just as some folks.

Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.