Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Ana Walshe Murder Trial Impacted by Karen Read Mistrial?

Episode Date: February 8, 2025

Will the Ana Walshe murder investigation be derailed by the Karen Read mistrial?  Trooper Michael Proctor investigated both the John O'Keefe's murder trial of which Karen Read is accused, and the Ana Walshe disappearance and investigation. In the Read trial, Proctor faced allegations of misconduct. During the trial,  highly offensive text messages were revealed,  sent by Proctor to colleagues, friends, and family members while investigating John O'Keefe's death. Trooper Michael Proctor is facing a trial board hearing.  The outcome could affect the prosecution of  Brian Walshe,  indicted for the murder of his wife, Ana.  Prosecutors say the 48-year-old husband dismembered Ana Walshe and discarded her body in multiple trash cans in the area. Police have recovered blood-stained items from the home, including a hacksaw. Walshe has pleaded 'not guilty' to first-degree murder. Joining Nancy Grace Today: David Studdard - Spalding County, Ga. Assistant District Attorney; Former Police Officer  Caryn Stark - Psychologist; Twitter: @carnpsych Tom Ruskin - Private Investigator, President of the CMP Protective and Investigative Group, Inc.; Former New York City Police Detective Investigator; Twitter: @tomruskin  Julie Lewis - President & CEO, Digital Mountain, Inc. Dr. Kendall Crowns - Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth); Lecturer: University of Texas Austin and Texas Christian University Medical School Bob Ward - Reporter for Boston 25 News; Twitter: Bward3,   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Bombshell in the Brian Walsh murder case, charged with the brutal murder of his wife, Anna, the mother of their little boys, and the likely dismemberment of her. Oh, the bombshell. It's so upsetting. You recall the Karen Reed case, right? The girlfriend accused of running over her boyfriend in the snow and killing him. How could we forget it? That case ended in mistrial. A hung jury. What does the Karen Reed prosecution have to do with Brian Walsh reportedly murdering his wife? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

In the last days, there have been hours and hours of motions in court regarding the Brian Walsh murder case. Some of those motions dealt with DNA results. There's been a delay in the DNA results, there's been a delay in the DNA results because the DNA samples went through a private lab and there's a holdup over who's going to pay for that testing. But now all focus is on Massachusetts state police trooper, Michael Proctor, who led the investigation into the Anna Walsh murder case. Why? Why is all the focus on him? Proctor is set to face a trial board next week investigator in both cases. His testimony at Karen Reed's first trial, as I said, ended in a hung jury, raised questions among some people regarding police integrity. Oh no. Is the Karen Reed case going to destroy the Anna Walsh murder investigation?

Oh, OK. Refresher. What exactly happened in the Anna Walsh murder case? Friends and family were stunned when Anna disappears after a New Year's Eve party. Listen. New tonight, police are asking the public to help them find a Cohasset, Massachusetts mother of three who vanished without a trace on New Year's Day. 39-year-old Anna Walsh left her home early Sunday morning. She was supposed to take a flight from Logan to D.C. where she works during the week,

but there's no record of her ever boarding a flight. Police say there's been reports that she took a ride share, but investigators haven't been able to confirm that. Three days after she was seen leaving her home with bags in hand, Walsh was reported missing. We cannot confirm that she actually got into a ride share in Cohasset. We have confirmed with the airlines, and that's been a challenge, that she did not board a plane this week. Police say her phone has been off and there has been no activity on her credit or debit cards.

Just a loving wife and mother to, she always says, three beautiful boys, three beautiful boys, who she loves so much. Three little boys wondering where is mommy? You are hearing our friends at WPRI and WUSA so where's Anna now I had to take that exact flight very often and between New York and Boston and DC it's almost a triangle of hourly flights with me an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now but first i want to go to bob ward reporter for boston 25 news you can find him at twitter at b ward 3 bob thank you for being with us could you just verbalize that a little bit better than i did i mean i know out of in new york i would very often have to race from Court TV to get to the Marine Air Terminal at LaGuardia, a different terminal than the main LaGuardia terminal, because they had hourly flights not only to Atlanta, but to D.C., where I would go to shoot Larry King.

And believe it or not, they were so regular, almost like a bus, for Pete's sake. I could be there within two hours of leaving the studios in Manhattan. It was amazing. But there's so many flights out of Logan to New York and D.C. That's a lot of investigation to find out if she really did get on a plane. Right. But, you know, Nancy, right from the very beginning, this sounded odd because you're talking this was New Year's Day. This was first thing in the morning on New Year's Day. She had a party at her house that went until about one o'clock in the morning, New Year's Eve into New Year's Day. A mother of three who claimed there was an emergency at her realty firm in Washington, D.C.

OK, well, wait, wait, wait, wait. Let me stop you right there. Bob Ward is joining me from Boston 25 News. I'm drinking out of the fire hydrant from you, Bob Ward. You're giving me so much information so quickly. So with the three children, she was actually working in D.C., living in the Boston area. And what was her job in D.C.? Was it a new job? It was a fairly new job. You know what? She had a job with an apartment down in D.C.

Okay. What was her job in D.C.? She was not a realtor, but she was some kind of property manager. That's it. That's what it was. Property manager. And hold on just a moment. We all know about getting a new job. You feel like you've got to do whatever they want to make that great impression so they don't say, wow, we've got her on six months probation. We're going to can her. She's not doing a very good job. I mean, David Studdard is with me right now, guys. Now, I think of David Studdard as a motorman, as an APD Atlanta Police Department officer. But now he is a very well-known lawyer. David Studdard, do you remember your first day on the job as a cop? Absolutely, I do.

And? It was a long, long time ago, 1988. And? I do remember my first day. And I was super excited, super enthusiastic and just wanting to get out and save the world. And didn't want to screw anything up and land at some desk assignment. That's right. We were on a very strict six month probationary period when we first started there and any infraction would cause you some difficulty right quick. So to your point,

absolutely. I would, I was willing to do whatever I needed to do to get through that probationary period. And then you put yourself through law school. Can you remember your first day working as a lawyer? You're like, yes, man, I'm going to screw this up. This is nothing like being a cop. That's absolutely right. The same sort of feeling. I mean, Karen Stark, you remember you would be with me on the set at Court TV. Karen Stark is with me, a renowned psychologist joining us out of the Manhattan jurisdiction. She's at KarenStark.com. Karen with a C. Karen, you'd be with me on the set at Court TV and my stomach will be churning to figure out if I can make that flight to get to Larry King

Studios in Washington to get on the air, you know, and I would make it. I don't think I ever did not make it. But when you've got a new gig, you'll do anything. And if they told me, hey, you got to fly to D.C. to be on tonight, I go, sure. I can't wait. Just like this woman, they go, hey, you got to fly down to D.C. We got an emergency. I don't care if it's New Year's Day. And she would hop that plane.

Would you agree with that? I would agree with it, Nancy. And I remember those days like it was yesterday. And you were always doing above and beyond what you needed to do. I used to watch you on Larry King because I couldn't believe that you would make it and you always made it. But what pressure. Yeah, there were a lot of white knuckles in a cab trying to get to LaGuardia Marine. So we're hearing from Bob Ward that something wasn't right, but yet it was a new job. So people chalked it off. Well, you know, she's proving herself. But then things even went more sideways. Take a listen to our friends at

Boston 25. A Cohasset police log is shedding new light on how the investigation first got started. It says a call requesting a well-being check was made on January 4th by a man who identified himself as the head of security at Anna Walsh's employer in D.C., Tishman Spire. The log says Tishman Spire contacted husband Brian Walsh before he reported his wife missing. It explains that he told police Anna left for D.C. and he hadn't heard from her since. According to the log, Ana's phone last pinged on January 2nd at 3.14 a.m. in Cohasset and hit the tower on Reservoir Road in Cohasset less than a mile from the family's home. Okay, with me, very well-known P.I., private investigator,

Tom Ruskin is with us. Ruskin is president of C.M.PMP Protective and Investigative Group, Inc., former NYPD investigator, and you can find him at cmp-group.com. Tom Ruskin, I don't like it when it's your job calling to report you missing, not your family. Correct. I mean, this stinks to the high heavens. It really does. Not to mention that it is a lot easier now than when I joined the force before my colleague in 1982 to check flight records, to check TSA records, to check different airlines. There's only a certain number of airlines that would fly between her home and Washington, D.C.

And it's very easy for the TSA and Homeland Security to go into those records now and search for her name, her date of birth, and see if she, A, had a plane reservation, B, did she clear security with all the cameras that are in airports, and C, did she actually get on the flight? Can I tell you something, Tom Ruskin? That's an excellent point. I hadn't even thought of, because I remember going, and you'll laugh at this, stutter, going to the Greyhound bus station in inner city Atlanta, trying to find out if a particular woman who always into this day is still a Jane Doe, by the way, who was murdered. If she had gotten off of a Greyhound bus before she was murdered by whom I believe to be a serial killer. Don't worry. I got him on one.

One. He's still in jail right now. Prison. Prison. Not jail. But it was so hard to do, Tom. Nancy, you'll also remember when you ran from Court TV to the Marine Air Terminal at LaGuardia Airport,

you used to be able to run through. No magnetometers. You'd run on a delta flight or people's express flight or eastern back then and you just jump on the flight with a random ticket that you could fly any hour nowadays you can't do that oh no tsa man they got to justify their existence and so they will do a full-on body cavity search if they feel like it. It doesn't matter who you are. You know who gets searched the most? My mother with a wheelchair when we push her around the airport even though she can walk. But yeah they love to hone in on my mom

Elizabeth. That said you're right Tom Ruskin there's only a couple of air of carriers that go between Boston and D.C. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Anna Walsh was reported missing in January. A few weeks later, husband Brian Walsh was arrested on charges including murder, misleading the investigators, and moving a human body. His computer searches were damning, like how long does it take a body to start smelling? Yeah. He is now being held behind bars pending trial. The Anna Walsh murder is one of the most high-profile murder cases in recent years.

Anna Walsh first reported missing just after New Year's Day, and the search became more and more desperate. What exactly do we know about Anna's disappearance? The employer is reporting Anna missing, not her family. But listen to this, WBZ. WBZ has obtained and verified audio of a voicemail left by Mr. Walsh for one of Ana's friends. It's the same day Ana was reported missing to police. Good afternoon, it's Brian Walsh. I hope all is going well.

I was just reaching out to basically everybody I could. Ana hasn't been in touch for a few days. Do you know anyone that might have had contact with her? Just, you know, calling everyone. So sorry to bother you. I'm sure everything's fine. So we do see the husband reaching out to her friends and leaving voicemails for all of them, trying to find out if they had heard from Ana.

And joining me right now, Julie Lewis, president and CEO of Digital Mountain Inc. at digitalmountain.com. Julie, thank you for being with us. Tom Ruskin, the PI, points out how much easier it is to check flight records through TSA and even getting subpoenas very quickly or asking the carrier, you know, like Delta, to check their records to find out if somebody made a flight. So, according to police, she didn't make that flight. But what, Julie Lewis, about rideshare, Lyft, Uber, and all the others? Digitally, wouldn't that leave a trail

if she had taken a ride share to the airport? You can certainly contact the custodian of records at the Ubers, the Lyfts, and types of companies that she would have taken a ride share and find out that information with legal due process and see what the actual fact pattern is there. Well, what about her phone? I mean, most people get their ride share through their phone app.

If you have access to her, yes, if you have access to her phone and you knew the whereabouts of that phone, you would have access to the app, but most of that data would be stored in the cloud and pointing up to the Uber application. It might not be stored on the local phone. So that's something to consider. Got a question for you, Julie Lewis. If we don't have her phone, but we do have her code, say it's like everybody else in

America, their birthday or their children's birthday. And we have the code for her phone. Can we get into the iCloud that way? Typically, you would need the username. You would need a password for the account. And you would also, if they have multi-factor authentication turned on, the code from the text message. So it's a little harder than I thought. But you know what?

We're talking about her phone and where is she? Where is the husband during all of this? Take a listen to Hour Cut 35. Lynn Beeland talking. As I indicated on January 1st, at 3 p.m. we did some errands and this, the disappearance of Anna Walsh. surveillance was checked and he did not enter either of those stores okay bob ward boston 25 on this uh the disappearance of honor walsh since the beginning saw a pirate ship on route one what okay now wait a minute wait wait wait so he says the husband says he's going to visit his mother and he gets lost on the way to his mom's home. And when he sees a pirate ship, he knows he's lost, but then goes into Whole Foods and CVS,

even though he's lost. What? The pirate ship is a landmark on the Route 1 area. There's that area of Swampskate where his mother lives. There are some old landmarks, miniature golf places you know, that area of Swampskate where his mother lives. There are some old landmarks, miniature golf places, restaurants, that sort of thing. And I think that's what it was that he's talking about was a landmark that he saw that told him where he was. And he said he got lost because he didn't have the GPS on his phone with him because

he left it at home. You know, Karen Stark, I find that very unusual. I've told my twins it's like the wizards and their wands in Harry Potter. You don't go anywhere without it. It doesn't make sense to me he didn't have a cell phone, especially if he hasn't heard from his wife. Wouldn't you keep your cell phone with you at that time in case she called? Well, let's think about this, Nancy. How many people really leave home these days without their phone? cell phone with you at that time in case she called. Well, let's think about this, Nancy. How many people really leave home these days without their phone? It's improbable. I have trouble

believing that he accidentally left it home. And he knows that he's being watched, it seems to me. So he intentionally left that phone home. I have no doubt about it. He's the nefarious character. He knows exactly what he's doing. In the search for Anna Walsh, local authorities find something very unusual. Take a listen to our Cut 40. Data from his phone also tracked his whereabouts on January 3rd. Locations were traveled at 427 on January 3rd to an apartment complex in Abington.

Surveillance shows the defendant's Volvo, as well as a mail fitting the defendant's appearance, exit a car near the dumpster. He walks to the dumpster carrying a garbage bag. He's leaning and it appears to be heavy as he has to heft it into the dumpster. He walks to the dumpster with the garbage bag and leaves it. On 448 he hit another complex in Abington and at 510 p.m. cell phone shows records at another apartment in Brocktonton video shows a party consistent with his appearance and his bubble again he decided items in the dumpster bob ward joining us from boston 25 on on his disappearance from the very beginning i i don't have a problem with my husband throwing trash out

there in the dumpster outside our house but when he starts going from one dumpster to the next dumpster to the next dumpster to the next dumpster all in within a one hour period that concerns me and you know who it reminds me of and you're going to know this name very well jennifer dulos the missing connecticut mom of five remember her husband husband, Fotis Dulos, and his mistress? They're going all around town dropping off items, and they're caught on surveillance video. Why is it, Bob Ward, maybe you can shed some light on this, why is it that when a woman goes missing, her husband suddenly turns into a neatnik, and he has to throw out the trash. Good question, Nancy. I think we know the answer to that. And that's the allegation here that the sadly that January 3rd incident that you just played the cut from the dumpsters in the South Shore and Abington and Brockton.

What we're going to find out in court, that is when the remains of Anna Walsh are being discarded in those dumpsters. Those dumpsters eventually are brought to an incinerator in the south shore of Massachusetts, and within an hour of those dumpsters being brought to that incinerator, they're destroyed. Anna Walsh's remains have never been located, and the thought is that they never will be because that's where those bags were brought. The other trash bags that were recovered in this case were brought to the North Shore near that pirate ship that we just talked about. And they were not brought to an incinerator, but to a landfill. They were found. And it's inside. I don't know if I'm getting ahead of us, but inside those trash bags is where the evidence,

the incriminating evidence has been located in this case. Bob Ward, could you tell me everything you just said one more time and very slowly? I think the gist is that very quickly after husband Brian Wals, visited these various dumpsters. The dumpsters were cleaned out where the trash was picked up and taken some to an incinerator and some to the pirate ship. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Karen Stark, have you ever noticed how defendants weave in a tiny bit of truth into their big fat lie?

The pirate ship. I mean, that's what makes pathological liars so interesting, Nancy, is because it's usually based on a hint of truth, right? Like no smoke without fire. There's a little bit of smoke, but the rest of it, they conjure up and they're very adept at being able to tell a lie that has a little bit of truth in it, but a lot of falsehood. I like the verb you used, conjure. I like a magician or a wizard, because one moment Anna Walsh is there with witnesses at a New Year's Eve party, and the next moment she's gone. Okay, Bob Ward joining me, investigative reporter, Boston 25.

Tell me again what you just said. So on January 3rd, Brian Walsh, according to the prosecutors, is recorded on surveillance trying to dump trash bags into dumpsters. In the south shore of Boston, in the towns of Abington and Brockton. The prosecution believes that those trash bags that he was struggling with to get into the dumpsters contained the dismembered remains of his wife, Anna Walsh. Shortly after he did that, those dumpsters were brought to an incinerator in the South Shore. Within an hour of those trash bags arriving at that incinerator, they were incinerated and converted into electricity. And Anna Walsh's remains have never been found. It's an absolutely horrific and gruesome part of this case. The other half of it

is that Brian Walsh allegedly did not discard of all the evidence in the case on the South Shore. The allegation is that he took his tools, the instruments that he used to dismember his wife's body, along with some of her clothes and belongings, and put them in other trash bags and discarded those things in dumpsters on the North shore of Boston near his mother's house, near that pirate ship. Those trash bags have been recovered and those items are going to be an important part of this case in this trial when it, when it takes place. And what do you believe Bob Ward were in those trash bags?

In January, what we were told was that they found a hatchet, a hacksaw. They found a bloody rug. They found Ana's Prada purse. They found the boots that she was seen wearing at that New Year's Eve party. And Nancy, they found her COVID-19 card. It's absolutely stunning what they found. me former apd atlanta police department officer and now lawyer what rank did you get to stuttered i left as an investigator nancy i was a homicide detective when i left okay david have you ever had a case without a body a homicide without a body, a homicide without a body? Yes, I have. Can I just say that's a tough pill to swallow? It is. But fortunately, even in those cases, and this guy, look, you know, as a homicide detective, I would have been looking at this guy immediately simply based on the fact

that his wife gets on an airplane. She's apparently overdue. he hasn't heard from her in three days only after he is contacted by her employer does he make an outcry about his wife that'll i mean my wife gets on an airplane she travels frequently if i haven't heard from her a few minutes after she's supposed to touch down i get frantic i mean i'm calling every you know trying to call her and call her this guy has done nothing but he's like a magnet for suspicion. I mean, he's going out. He's talking about this pirate ship, you know, not to mention all of this physical evidence that's located, which to my point is, you know, even the most careful criminals, when they commit these kinds of crimes, it's almost impossible to do it without leaving some sort of forensic physical evidence behind. And this guy has left a mountain of it. I mean, could you? Here's another thing.

Julie Lewis, I want to circle back to you in just a moment about possible nav systems on his car. But Tom Ruskin joining me, and then I want Karen Stark to weigh in on this as well. Tom Ruskin, guys, private investigator extraordinaire, president of CMP protective and investigative group. Tom, listen, I don't like jewelry. I really don't like fancy clothes. I don't like fancy cars, but if you were to take, let's just say this little ring right here. This is made of my mother-in-law's jewelry.

Okay. It's very thin. It's not bejeweled. But if you were to take that, I would come after you. All right. There are just some things that would matter to me. And I've got a funny feeling this woman would not want her fancy boots and her Prada purse thrown out. No. And it would be weird if she had left and left for a business trip if she didn't take those with her that they wouldn't be behind in the house and be discoverable.

This guy is definitely the prime suspect and probably will be convicted at trial the fact of the matter is to the other gentleman's point you don't need a body anymore to prove a case it sure helps though man come on ruskin i mean yeah you don't need a body i'm not going to give him a gold star for getting rid of the body. And again, he hasn't been proven guilty. We're just hypothesizing on the evidence that we have. But it sure as heck helps if you do have a dead body to prove a murder case. But it also goes against him because we know that he was in these yards. He was dumping stuff. What is he doing dumping her garbage? What's the the matter his pickup's not working in his house karen stark he's so right and and karen again i threw this to stuttered earlier i think but

why do guys turn into neatniks as soon as their wives disappear and again like stuttered said and like ruskin is saying about the trash it defies the course of normal human conduct. He doesn't check on his wife to see if she landed. Her employer has to call looking for her. And then he wants to take out the trash. Fine. Do it at the corner, at the end of the driveway, or the trash chute in your apartment in Manhattan. But why do you go to five or six different dumpsters?

And could somebody just surprise me once and not throw bloody rags and towels in a dumpster do something different what always happens Nancy he believes he's not going to get caught and this looks suspicious so suspicious I mean he gets lost going to his mother he didn't get lost he's trying to explain his circuitous route from one dump to the next. And also saying that he went to places where they could check and he did not go. So, Nancy, can I jump in for one sec? Yes. I just want to also bring up the fact this is a woman. Let's assume that the husband has nothing to do with her murder. This is a woman who's going to take a flight, supposedly, from Boston to Washington on a business trip. Why is her phone off? No one that travels, myself,

my loved ones, my family, when we go to the airport, you shut off your phone once you're on the flight, and you turn it on to Mr. Stoddard's point once you land. Why is she becoming all of a sudden surreptitious or becoming covert in her actions? You're right. Which sort of defies the logic of the husband. Tom Ruskin, private investigator, you're absolutely right. I mean, I don't guess any of you people on this panel have read Don't Be a Victim, written by, oh, what's that girl's name? Oh, Nancy Grace.

You're supposed to like take a picture of when you're in the parking deck, which I do and send to my family. And then when I get on the plane, I take a picture, I'm on the plane and send to them. You don't even have to write a text or write words, but just let people know where you're going. And Jackie, I think I've even sent them to you before. Yes, I have. Okay, guys, that's not the end of it, but I want to ask Julie Lewis something, president and CEO of Digital Mountain Inc. Julie, what about, I like to just say OnStar as a blanket nav description. Wouldn't his car show everywhere he had been if it were, you know, anything older

than 2010? So before I jump into that, I just, you were talking about pictures and there was supposedly a picture she photographed of herself with her wedding ring off and some of her final photos. And so within that picture, there's things called excess data that you can look for that potentially could have geolocation information about where she was when the picture was taken. See, that is why you're the expert. I didn't even catch that, Julie Lewis. So switching gears to the car, you know, the car is a moving computer these days on most cars with Wi-Fi. It has GPS.

It has a cell network, all these things that you can use for tracking. So if Brian's car has that in it, law enforcement could have certainly used that information. The other thing that happens in cars is a lot of people sync their phones. And so text messages, contacts, you know, browser history, all these things may be on that, on the car. Now, you know, for example, if you rent a car, even that information can be on that. So that's something that's really important to know. You mean when you charge your phone in a car, the car can track everything that you have written on your phone during that time? It could be thinking like when you are in an Uber, your playlist, depending on the configuration, it could actually download that. So you don't want to go in some stranger's car, rental car, and plug it in because the car infotainment system could be grabbing and capturing some information

from your phone. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I can't believe what's happening. What does the Karen Reed prosecution have to do with the Anna Walsh murder? The facts in Anna's disappearance and murder and likely dismemberment are overwhelming. Will her husband walk free because the lead investigator in the Anna Walsh case also worked the Karen Reed case. Oh no. When I say the evidence is strong in the Anna Walsh disappearance and murder case, I really mean it. What do we know about Google searches? I mean, what an idiot. I just can't stress this enough. Take a listen to our

cut 36. This is Lynn Beeland talking. On January 1st, defendant Googled using his son's iPad. Some of his searches are as follows. Keep in mind that the defendant said he left at 6 a.m. At 4.55 a.m. on January 1st, he searched how long before a body starts to smell. How long before a body starts to smell? Okay, keep going. 8 a.m., how to stop a body from decomposing. At 5.20 a.m., he searched how to bound the body. At 5.47 a.m., 10 ways to dispose of a dead body if you really need to. At 6.25 a.m. on the 1st, how long for someone to be missing

to inherit. At 6.34 a.m. on the 1st, can you throw away body parts? Okay. I think we need Dr. Kendall Crowns, Chief Medical Examiner, Tarrant County, Lecturer, University of Texas, Austin, and Texas Christian University Medical School. Dr. Kendall Crowns, thank you for being with us. Let me just ask you a couple of things, and I'd like to point out also, this is food for thought for you,

Karen Stark, psychologist. On his son's iPad, please and i'd like to point out also this is food for thought for you karen stark psychologist on his son's ipad like they don't know how to read the search history and there's daddy searching how long before a body starts to smell how do you stop a body from decomposing how to get rid of a body 10 ways to dispose of a dead body if you really need to. I'm glad he tacked that on at the end. How long before, how long for someone to be missing to inherit? That's not for you, Crowns. Can you throw away body parts? Okay, I'm starting to agree with Tom Ruskin and David Studdard that you don't really need the dead body to prove that someone is dead. Dr. Kendall Crowns, can you give me some quick answers to those?

This is a lightning round for you. How long before a body starts to smell, Dr. Crowns? Four to ten days. That just rolled off the tip of your tongue. I'm not going to ask why. How do you stop a body from decomposing? Refrigeration. I mean, you look at that guy they found in the iceberg, Otzi the Iceman. He was missing for a thousand years and he's stuck in

the iceberg. So really refrigeration is the best way to prevent a body from decomposing. 10 ways to dispose of a dead body if you really need to. That's not a medical question. Let me go to the next medical question. Can you throw away body parts? You have to, you know, if you don't want the trash man to notice them, put them in dumpsters, like which was possibly done in this case, and then dismember the individual into small enough parts that they aren't recognizable as human, and then mix them in with other trash. And another good way is to put them in, I think it's like these pool chemicals that can melt the body parts down into kind of a sludge.

You know, Dr. Kendall-Crowns, you're actually Nancy scaring many people that are listening to you right now. Putting it in pool. Wait a minute, Karen Stark. I know you've got something dad hold on what did you say about pool cleaner dr kendall crowns there's there's a certain chemical they use i believe it's in pool cleaning or something else i can't think of it off the top of my head but it'll actually dissolve the uh dismembered body

parts down relatively it'll dissolve the bone as well and it'll just kind of make this kind of ooze but then you have to dispose of that i'm glad you're on the right side of the law dr kendall crowns i really am but guess what guys there's more take a listen again to lind beeland at 9 29 a.m what does formaldehyde do at 9 34.34 a.m. on 1st, how long does DNA last? At 9.59 a.m., can identification be made on partial remains? At 11.34 a.m., dismemberment and the best ways to dispose of a body. At 11.44, how to clean blood from wooden floor. At 11.56 on 1st, luminol to clean blood from wooden floor. At 1156 on the first,

luminol to detect blood. At 108, what happens when you put body parts in ammonia? At 121 p.m., is it better to throw primosine clothes away or wash them? Those were on the January 1st. Okay, guys, just know that while some of these questions are so rudimentary, they are cruel and horrible. And three little boys are left without their mother while this guy is Googling what does formaldehyde do?

How long does DNA last? Can an ID be made on partial remains? Dismemberment, best ways to dispose of a body. What happens when you put body parts in ammonia? Should you throw away crime scene clothes or wash them? So to Dr. Kendall Crowns, lightning round, Dr. Crowns. How long does DNA last? You can find DNA on surfaces for years.

What does formaldehyde do formaldehyde is a fixative also and that's what you use to kind of pickle the organs uh to keep them preserved for long periods of time what happens when you put body parts in ammonia doctor kindle crowns that one i don't know that's a new one to me as far as i know i stopped you're out no don't go i've got more oh well one more quickie from lynn beeland listen on january 3rd that same day at 102 p.m he did some more google searches what happens to here on a dead body at 113 p.m what is the rate of decomposition of a body found in a plastic bag compared to on a surface in the woods? At 1.20 p.m., can baking soda mask or make a body smell good? Can baking soda make a body, a dead body, smell good?

These Google searches have led to a bombshell development in the search for Anna Walsh. Bob Ward joining me, Boston 25 News, an indictment. Explain. She was indicted on three counts. There was murder, misleading investigators and improper disposal of a body. Nancy, can I just say one thing about the Internet searches? And it's one thing that has just absolutely haunted me. When I go back over this timeline and you realize that there was a new year's Eve party, that there were three people at this party. It was Brian Anna and they had one guest in the house and that guest left the house somewhere between 1230 and one o'clock in the morning. That first search, how long before a body starts to

smell is at four 55 AM on a wall. She was alive at one o'clock in the morning and at four 55 AM, she's gone. And that search is done. And I just think about that. And I think that she's in the house. They also found, we haven't talked about this in the district court arraignment. They said that they found blood in the basement and they found I think it was two bloody knives, one broken bloody knife in the basement and a heavy smell of ammonia in the basement of the house. So, you know, I'm picturing in my mind that her body is there in the basement. He's killed her and he goes and he finds his kid's iPad and he's doing these searches within a couple of hours of his wife being there, someone that he loved. And this is what he is doing. I had a story, I broke a story about how he threatened to kill her back in 2014. And here he is in the first day of 2023 in the house with her dead body. And he this is she isn't even cold. And he is already coming

up with this plan on what to do with her remains. I know the depravity of this case. I've been doing this for 40 years. And the depravity of this case, to me, is really just off the charts. The three children, the three little boys, now no mom and potentially no dad at home either. Not that it matters. Motive never has to be proven in court. But, Bob, why? Why did he do this? There's another detail here, too, from talking to investigators, the New York Post had this this picture you all may have seen.

And I talked to an investigator about this. There was a champagne, a box of champagne from the party that the New York Post got a picture of that was that was on the dining room table. I went knocked on the door when before all this blew up, before everything happened, I was on the dining room table. I went and knocked on the door when, before all this blew up, before everything happened, I was trying to talk to Brian. When she was missing and we didn't know what we were getting ourselves into really, really early on. And I could see inside and the Christmas tree was still set up and it was still lit. You could see inside. I didn't see what I'm about to describe to you because the police hadn't done their search yet. So they found a bottle of champagne that was still in its box. And the New York Post got a picture of this. And on the side of the box, Anna Walsh had written a note

to Brian on New Year's Eve that said to Brian, we made it through 2022. It was a tough year, but 2023 is going to be a great year. Love you, Anna. And it had hearts written on it. And the investigator that I spoke to said they believe that that was her. Those are her last words to the world. And when I look at, there's another internet search here from December 27th. They did not describe where the internet search was found. So they didn't say if it was on the kid's iPad or if it was on a phone or a computer, but all it said was best date for a divorce for a man. So that's from December 27th when Ana is still alive before the New Year's Eve party.

And it makes me wonder if Ana, if this, if whatever happened, whatever happened New Year's Eve, if Ana never saw this coming, just came out of the blue. I think because the story that I broke about the threat that he she complained back in 2014 before they were engaged, they were just dating. She complained to D.C. police that he threatened to kill her in 2014. I think and I know investigators think that this is a domestic violence case and there's an escalation that started then. In 2018, there's a selfie picture of her where she's pointing at a bruise on her face. And she said that she walked, she fell at work or something. It's on one of her Instagram accounts.

And I think there was an escalation of domestic violence. I don't think the police were ever called. But something happened was going on behind the scenes. And this is going to be one of the things that I'm going to be watching for to try to understand what happened here and how this exploded, because you don't, you don't get to this kind of, and this hatred to, you know, I, I can understand a moment of passion of murder of, you know, I can understand a moment of passion, of murder, you know, a moment of anger.

But this dismemberment and this depravity that we see here in these messages that are caught on the iPad and then what we've been talking about with the disposal of the body, it's almost too much. What does the Anna Walsh murder prosecution have to do with the Karen Reid hung jury? One thing, the lead investigator, Michael Proctor. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart podcast.