Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Assassin in Luigi Mangione Thwarts Justice, Fan Girls Storm Courthouse

Episode Date: August 18, 2026

Luigi Mangione pleaded guilty to federal stalking charges for the 2024 killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson and faces a potential life sentence  The status of his state murder trial is still pending.  On August 14, 2026, Luigi Mangione, 28, admitted in Manhattan federal court that he stalked and shot Brian Thompson outside a Hilton hotel. He pleaded guilty to two federal counts of interstate stalking resulting in death, which carry a maximum sentence of life in prison without parole. Mangione explained that his actions were motivated by years of severe back pain and frustration with the U.S. health insurance system.   Despite the federal guilty plea, Mangione still faces eight state charges in New York, including second-degree murder and criminal possession of a weapon. His state trial is scheduled to begin on September 8, 2026. His defense has filed a motion to dismiss the state charges under New York’s double jeopardy law, arguing that his federal guilty plea should prevent prosecution for the same conduct. However, prosecutors maintain that the state charges are distinct and are prepared to proceed with the trial.   JOINING NANCY GRACE TONIGHT: Randolph Rice  - Former Prosecutor and Current Criminal Defense & Civil Attorney at Rice Law, website: ricelawmd.com, IG, FB, X: @ricelawmd Caryn Stark - Forensic Psychologist, renowned TV and Radio trauma expert and consultant, www.carynstark.com, Instagram: carynpsych, FB: Caryn Stark Private Practice David Sarni - Former NYPD Detective, 27 years at NYPD, Adjunct Professor John Jay College of Criminal Justice, Instagram: dsonthemedia, TikTok: DS08296, Facebook: David Sarni, LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-sarni-ba002910a   Thomas Coyne -  Medical Examiner, University of Florida.  District Eight Medical Examiner, State of Florida. Toxicologist.  Forensic Pathologist and Neuropathologist.   Lauren Conlin - Reporter, Los Angeles Magazine - Podcaster/Reporter/Host- Co-Host of "PopCrimeTV" on YouTube, Website: www.popcrime.tv and primetimecrimeshow.com,  X- @Conlin_Lauren, Instagram: @LaurenEmilyConlin, YouTube: @PopCrimeTV  Dave Mack  - Investigative Reporter, 'Crime Stories' See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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With best in class pricing, unbeatable trade values, and 70 years of trust. It's easy to see why families choose the Plaza Auto Group. Plaza Auto Group. Celebrating 70 years family owned and operated. Visit Plaza Auto Group.com. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Cold-blooded assassin. Luigi Mangione somehow has thwarted justice.

I mean, he guns down a dad, a husband. In plain sight, on the sidewalk, comes up behind him. I'm going to play the video for you. Comes up behind him with a ghost gun. It shoots him dead on the sidewalk and somehow he has thwarted justice.

This as Fangirls storm the courthouse. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. The so-called health care assassin. He claims I was, quote, Emotional. Emotional when he gunned down Brian Thompson, a married father. Mangione did not use United Healthcare. His family did not use United Healthcare.

This is still a valid defense that he can use moving forward. I'm emotional, just talking about him being emotional. His children are better off without him. They need to learn to not be like their dad and enjoy the blood money, kids. Brian Thompson. I don't give a flying he died. Millions of Americans. I liked it. He's worthwhile for more deaths than Osama bin Laden. And I

remember Americans celebrating when Osama bin Laden was killed. It's not like we don't understand heroic violence or like when violence is good. It's not saying we should all take up arms but when your democracy is eroded

and there's no other option, like what are we meant to do? Who are they, those ghouls? That from Moll Crane Newman on X. Blood-sucking ghoul? Let's think about who she's talking about. And while I'm talking about the victim in this case, I'd like to see, Control Room, if you can conjure it up, the video of Luigi Mangione approaching

an unarmed man and shooting him from behind. There he goes to work. And here comes Mangione. Do not show the moment of his death. There's a guy. Going to work, minding his own business, got a wife and two boys, and he shot dead on the sidewalk.

And these fan girls going in and out of the courthouse, all dressed up on their stilettos, all the hair and makeup, so they can get a glimpse of Luigi Mangione, and maybe he can see them. And what? Be a prison pen pal woman? Let's talk about Brian Thompson just one moment. Joining me an all-star panel,

but first to Dave Mack, Crime Stories investigative reporter. Dave, can I just remind you? you that Brian Thompson came from a very close-knit working-class family, like your family and my family, Dave Mack, and that's why I'm addressing this to you. His dad operated a grain elevator for a living. A grain, you know, like going up and down in a silo or a factory, that grain elevator. That's what he did day in, day out so he could send Thompson and the siblings to college. Wait for it. He comes from a small farming community in Jewel, Iowa.

His mother, a beautician. He, in this little rural town, was high school valedictorian, the class president, the homecoming king. He played basketball and golf. and catch this, Dave Mack. He played the trombone in the band. He goes on to college. He worked 17 years, according to my math,

climbing up the ladder at United Healthcare, 17 years. And he becomes this small town boy, the CEO of United Health Care. Dave Mack, gunned down in cold blood by a brat. What can you tell me about Luigi Mangione, Dave Mac? Luigi Mangione grew up in privilege, private schools, money. he grew up with the exact opposite of what Brian Thompson had.

Whoa, wait, look at your monitor. There he is in his Hawaiian paradise. He ain't working like you and me, Dave Mack. He's on the beach living, rent-free. His parents paying all the bills. They're multi-millionaires on high-rise in Hawaii. Seathing, complaining about the health care. Okay, now what were you saying? I know he went to, what was the prep school he attended? Then he went on to an Ivy League University of Pennsylvania. He was at an elite. Oh, it was the Gilman School. Go ahead, Dave, Mac. Yeah, he graduated in 2016, and he was the valedictorian of his class at the Gilman School. You know, Brian Thompson, valedictorian of his high school, working class high school, you know, and they're polar opposites in what,

they came into their adulthood with, whereas Brian Thompson, a complete overachiever, Luigi Mangione, a complete underachiever. You talk about a person raised with all of the advantages. That's Luigi Mangione. But Nancy, Mangione, when I compared the two of them, the thought that Mangione could take out a man like Brian Thompson, with such disdain from life, you know, that he didn't care that here's, you mentioned, Thompson is a, he's

brought himself up, he's married, he's got kids, put him in school. And, you know, in a very short period of time, the guy became the CEO of United Healthcare through hard work. Luigi Mangione, in the meantime, he isn't even working when it comes right down to it, because he has back pain. You showed the pictures in Hawaii. Well, every picture you see in Luigi Mangioni, he is not working hard. He's relaxing. He's posing for pictures. He's just doing whatever he wants to do funded by his parents, by his lifestyle. And so that disappearance from normal life that Luigi Mangione went into. He lived at the surf break in Honolulu. You remember that co-living work community? It's like Luigi Mangione is the opposite of the hardworking Brian Thompson.

Guys, we're showing you shots right now the high rise that Dave Matt is talking about. The victim was in New York City to speak at an investor conference. It appears a suspect was lying in wait for several minutes. And as the victim was walking to the conference hotel, the suspect approached from behind and fired several rounds, striking the victim at least once in the back and at least once in the right calf. Many people passed the suspect, but he appeared to. wait for his intended target. This morning at 646 AM patrol officers from Midtown North Precet responded to a 911 call of a person shot in front of the Hilton Hotel located at 1335

Avenue of the Americas. This is between West 53rd Street and West 54th Street. At 648 AM, officers arrive and find the victim. Brian R. Thompson, a 50-year-old male on the sidewalk in front of the Hilton with gunshot wounds to his back and leg. They're talking about the husband been the dad, Brian Thompson, and the search for Luigi Mangione. And what a search it was. He was wily enough to plan out the murder very well. And he just admitted to it under oath in court. Yet the Mangianistas, as they call themselves, insist he was, quote, framed. He just admitted he did it to David Sarny, joining us, former NYPD detective. 27 years at NYPD.

He knows this area like the back of his hand. Professor John Jay College Criminal Justice. Sarnie, explain the audacious crime, the brazen nature of coming up. I walk that same path every morning going back and forth to court TV and then over to HLN. Right there with women, children, commuters, all going by. He didn't care, shot him down like a dog on the sidewalk. And now, tonight, he's thwarting a murder charge. There's an individual who waited for his prey when he saw, he was there earlier, waited to see him.

Once the perpetrator saw the victim, shot him, cold-blooded. And his planning for the murder was better than his planning, I think, for escape. Describe this area for me, Sarnie. You're talking about Midtown Manhattan. You're talking about the whole. hotel there. I go that area all around there. You took my 57 to 54th Street. He got it off the train on the F train. He then proceeded to go southbound. Oh, hey, wait, Sarnie, look at your monitor. Look at your monitor. He kept his face covered so much, but he just had to lower his face

mask to flirt with the hotel reception clerk and bam, we got his face. I just had to draw your attention to this. Go ahead, Sarnie. Well, you're talking about people, plan things. they always drop it. And this is the benefit of what police do. We find the mistakes that these individuals make. And that's what happened. The painstaking work with the detectives on this case in Midtown North, Manhattan South homicide,

and detectives throughout the city were able to piece together the assassination and his flight from that location. The difficulty was from there is trying to locate him at a little, at a residential and an area because we didn't know where he fled to. They were going to go to the buses. And then fortunately you had a bystander with that photo that we have that was put out there by the police and by the media, had someone identify him at that McDonald's in Altoona. That's right. Oh, as a matter of fact, speaking of the ID at McDonald's, listen.

Yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you. What's your name? Mark what? Missouri. Someone called. I thought you were suspicious.

Oh, I'm sorry. figure out of you on me? Yes, sir. Thanks. I thought she looked like someone. Those are police confronting Luigi Mangione who lies about who he is at a McDonald's in Altoona.

That's what Sarnie was talking about. Straight out to Lauren Conlin, joining us, investigative reporter, L.A. magazine. She is the co-star of pop crime TV. you can find her at Lauren Emily Conlon. Lauren, thank you for being with us. How, this is just killing me. Is he thwarting justice on a murder to charge in New York State Court?

Well, Nancy, Sarnie said it. And let's not forget that it was actually murder one as it relates to terrorism back in September before his attorney. That was dropped. Yeah, that was dropped. So he's facing murder two in New York, New York courts. And they're this close to getting the murder charge thrown out. He has not pled guilty to murder.

He pled guilty and a surprise move in federal court to stalking related to death, to stalking interstate. He has never been charged with the murder. My SUVs worth more than ever. Time to upgrade? There's never been a better time. At Plaza Auto Group locations, get top value for your trade and shop hundreds of new and pre-owned vehicles across 11 locations.

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at Karen Stark.com Karen, maybe my IFB isn't working correctly but I'm pretty sure this is your home. Your home. You live up the street from where a guy's shot down in cold blood on the sidewalk. It's hard to understand. It has to be good lawyering. You know that more than I would, Nancy. But here's this guy. He comes across so charming and smart and intelligent. And he actually, we have video of him using that gun.

And yet somehow his defense team is able to conjure up that he used a false identification. And that was the only thing that was going on with him. I just find that inconceivable that they could get away with doing that. Player number one, what is the address of your emergency? Um, it's not really an emergency. I'm a manager at Plank Road McDonald's out here in the boulevard. Okay. And I have a customer here that some other customers were suspicious of, that he looks

like the CEO shooter from New York. Okay. So they're just really upset and they're like coming to me and I was like, well, I can't approach them, you know? No, of course not. I think millions of people see some of themselves and manage and that's why they love him so much. Jurors, they're going to hear the chance.

The questions about the insurance industry has raised the stakes in a way I think we haven't seen in a long time. That's simply not true. If you hate the insurance industry, then don't have insurance. Or complain about it, protest about it, address your Congress people, your senators and representatives about it, Do something. Form an action group. Come up with an alternative. But gunning someone down in cold blood,

that's the way to complain about how you don't like insurance. That's my friends at Dateline. I'm not buying into that America identifies with Luigi Mangione. Lauren Conlon, isn't it true that when his, David Thompson's widow was crying on the front row in court during his federal guilty plea, which I think was not worth the Hill of Beans. He did not plead to murder. She leaves the courthouse to all the ghouls yelling, America loves Luigi.

America loves Luigi. No, America does not love Luigi. Let's see all the women entering the courtroom really quickly. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you better hide your face, woman. Yeah, that's right. hide, hide, hide, hide, because you don't want the world to know that you're sucking up to a violent felon. That's from Strange McNights TikTok. Oh, wow. Look at them. They're gorgeous. They're probably

smart. Some of them are smart enough to hide their faces. Gotcha. Okay. Lauren Conlon, back to widow walking out of courthouse to throngs, yelling America loves Mangione. Yes, so thankfully, At 40 Foley Square, the federal courthouse, there are two entrances, although, you know, it's not huge. You can still hear the fans in the front, but they did sneak Thompson's family kind of out, out by the side. But that didn't stop fans, I guess, from relentlessly posting on social media. One of the three, quote, Mangia Nistas, she actually went as far as to post other people's trashing of of Brian Thompson, almost feeling proud of it. And it's just, it's so tragic.

I mean, it's just so sad to see that humanity has fallen this far, that, you know, we celebrate murderers and we celebrate deaths like this, assassinations. I don't know how we know what we can afford, but can I get a soap and some towels, I guess? Yeah, let's just check your balance, Manchione. It looks like it is $400,000. Wait, what?

What? What are you talking about? What do you mean? Where is that coming from? It looks like a couple of places. Nilfs for health care reform. Bottoms United for Luigi. This last, Lindsay Graham? That is Luigi the musical off Instagram. To Randolph Rice joining us, high-profile defense lawyer, civil lawyer, at Rice Law. prosecutor. I don't get it. I don't get the swell of support for Mangione. You know what? I'm not a shrink and I don't think you are either. So let's talk about what we do know. You and I, Rice,

and that is the law. I know the law. When I can't figure anything else in this world out, I figure out the law. I consider it to be my sword and my shield. Let's talk about what is happening right now. You know what? To have with all the Mangianistas to hay with a debacle in federal court. And I'd like to point out, that didn't have anything to do with the federal prosecutors. As much as everybody wants to scream at them, of course, they managed to somehow lose the charges connected to what would make an aggravating death penalty case. Those charges were the firearm charges.

I don't want to go to DefCom 4 on the law. But the firearm charges against him, he had a ghost gun with no serial. number on it and he had a cat, he had a can, a silencer in common parlance. He created a ghost gun, took hundreds of hours to do it at a 3D printing, no serial number to controvert justice. But the federal court ruled that for the DP in federal court, the underlying gun charge had to be related to a violent crime and stalking in their minds. did not equal a violent crime. And they threw out the firearm charge.

The firearm charge is what triggered the DP in the New York federal court. So the feds lost the DP at the get-go. But this plea rice is not their fault. Nobody can stop. Someone charged was saying, I plead guilty. I did it. Under the Sixth Amendment. They don't get a deal.

They don't get a sweetheart deal. They have to plead blind. Explain what happened with this plea and how now the murder charges may be thwarted in the New York State Court. Well, first off, what happened to Mr. Thompson was just horrible, and we all feel for his family, his kids, his wife, certainly. But when you describe this as thwarted justice, I think that that's just a complete misdiscretion of what this is. He didn't write the New York laws. The New York legislature is the one you want to be mad at here because they're the one that said, no, no, we're not going to go by that sovereignty law. that the federal government does, we're going to make it broader.

We're going to say if it comes out of the same criminal transaction, then we're not going to allow a second prosecution. So this was at the end of the day a race, and the DA in New York knew this was a race, and that's why they wanted to try this case first. So Mr. Mangione's team, and I've got to tell you this is a master class, a master class in what to do as a defense attorney,

walked him to that courthouse last Friday and let him do an open plea. No plea deal, an open plea. That right there is what's going to get the case knocked out in New York. up the defense team's tailpipe are you? I'm just curious how you managed to claw four inches up their tailpipe. Hey, look, when I see good lawyering, I got to give a tip of my hat. And you've got to admit, too, as a lawyer, you know they did the right thing.

Deep down inside, you know, they're not defending the crime. It's not that deep. They outmaneuvered the state. It ain't that deep, man. I'm not giving them credit that much credit for figuring out two plus two equals four. the defense team outmaneuvered the state. The state, New York, should have moved the case up faster on the docket to avoid this. But this is what happened, okay, before you continue to heap accolades upon the defense.

And yeah, they outmaneuvered the state. They did. It's just plain and simple. It's cold. It's cold. But that's what happened. This is what went down. first of all, the feds lost the death penalty firearms charge.

So all they've got left are these two felony stalking charges. He crossed state lines. He used interstate commerce to stalk the victim. That puts it in federal court. Interstate commerce. If you buy gas in another state with a credit card, you've used interstate commerce. Bam, just that simple. They got him on that.

he pled a blind plea is when you don't have a deal you throw yourself at the mercy of the court we hear about cheap deals all the time rice he's charged a murder and he got involuntary manslaughter five years to serve three of that on probation what that's a plea deal a blind plea is when you go in front of the judge the prosecutor is ill doesn't want it to happen you can't stop him under the constitution he goes hey sentence me i plead guilty to everything. That's what he did. Why was that smart? Because the defense believes, correct me if I'm wrong, Rife's, I'm sure you will. The defense believes that by pleading guilty on those stalking charges, that that's the same thing he's being tried for in state court and therefore under double jeopardy. Easyway. If O.J. Simpson came down, excuse me, came up from hell, right now and reappeared in your studio and went, okay, I did it. Try me. Can't be done. Because he's already been trying. He was acquitted. Double jeopardy.

This is what the state of New York is arguing. What? We're charging him with murder two, people. That's not stalking. Stalking leads up to murder two. He stalked Brian Thompson and then gunned him down. That is the state's best. argument and they darn well better not screw this argument up. Yes, no. They'll screw it up. And I'm going to agree with you a little bit there and I can't believe I'm saying that, but they will screw it up. And in fact, Judge Caro has already said essentially, I believe this is double jeopardy had the feds gone first because this argument was made in

the past by his defense team and he dismissed it. So he is probably leaning right now to Please stop talking about Manafort. That's over, and the facts are highly different. I mean, I can distinguish the facts just like that. So quit using Manafort as precedent in this case. Stalking is not murder two. That's real simple. And if the caro can't see that, he needs to get off the bench.

It's not, but it's the same transaction. One gun, one defendant, one bullet. Did you just say it's not the same thing? It is. It's the same transaction. I'm pretty sure I say it's not the same thing. It's not the same thing. Double jeopardy. You know what? You know what? You need so many, many things. You need so many things. I don't have fingers and toes to count them all.

That said, for one thing, a little dose of humility. I know you think you're all that because you win all your cases and your fancy rice law from blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. you need to hear what happened to a husband and dad, Brian Thompson. Okay, Dr. Thomas Coyne is going to give Randolph Rice a tiny dose of reality. Coin is the perfect person to do it. He's joining us out of Tallahassee. The Chief Medical Zamer in District 8, never a lack of business in the state of Florida.

toxicologist, forensic pathologist, and neuropathologist, Dr. Coyne, what did Brian Thompson endure there bleeding out on the sidewalk in Manhattan, far from home? When you're shot in the back, one of the things that could happen is that bullet could pass through your spinal cord. And so he may have been immediately dropped to the ground, realizing he's hurt, but unable to get up and run away from the danger. That bullet also could have passed through a number of vital organs, your lungs, your heart, those main arteries that come out of our heart, the aorta. And so we could have been slowly bleeding internally all the while,

realizing that he's in danger just prior until it passes out. Okay, hold on just a moment, Dr. Coyne. You stated bleeding until he passes out. I so often argued two juries. Of course, it's against legal precedent, which it means case law. What do I mean by that? Let's just go with the First Amendment. Right to free speech.

Okay. Now, that constitutional right in the First Amendment has been interpreted by case law, referred to as precedent, to mean, yeah, you can burn the flag. That's freedom of speech. out pretty seriously, the founding fathers meant, yeah, burn the flag. In fact, burn it in front of the church. Go ahead. But it has been interpreted that way. The law interpreted, Dr. Coyne, says that the prosecutor cannot ask the jurors to place themselves in the shoes of the victim. him. So, what I would ask you, if you were on the stand and you are my medical examiner on this case,

I would not ask the jury to place themselves in Brian Thompson's shoes. I would say something like Dr. Thomas Coyne, could you explain to the jury based in your medical expertise what Brian Thompson endured as he bled out of the jury? out on the sidewalk, all dressed up in his fancy outfit to go to this big convention and work his tail off to support his family. How long could he have survived? Could he have thought, will I ever see my boys alive again? Will I ever see my wife? Could he have had those rational thoughts as he died on that early morning workday? Absolutely. I think once the injury occurred, he would have recognized that something serious

that happened to him probably dropped to the ground immediately, and that would have triggered your fight or flight response where that anxiety will kick in. And as he's bleeding internally, perhaps with a lung injury, he may have been having increased difficulty breathing, choking on blood within his lungs. That would have been very scary. and he would have certainly had that impending thought. Is this it? Wait a minute.

Oh, oh, hey, Dr. Coyne, you know it just rolls off your tongue. You're not in a deposition. What did you say about him choking on his own blood? Sure. So as if the bullet passed through his lungs and very likely, given the fact that they occupy a large space in our chest, with every breath, as he's bleeding into his lung tissue, it would have been increasingly more difficult for him to get.

air. And so that blood would have mixed with the gas coming in and out of our lungs. And he would have been sort of gurgling, choking upon that on that blood as it pours into the lung tissue. Get Bell, Pure Fiber Internet with Crave, Netflix, and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on Internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The sensation, Randolph Rice, I mean, even while we've been sitting here,

and every time I say Brian Thompson's children, his two boys, his two boys, while every time I say that, I think about my twins. I'm never not thinking about them. And I wonder if he laid. there bleeding out, choking on his own blood and thought, well, I ever see my children again? And you're somehow justifying double jeopardy and him not getting tried for murder to. I mean, who is the man in the mirror for Pete's sake? Do you ever think this is wrong?

It is wrong, Nancy. And by the way, you know that when I've objected, you're going to. questions there that would have gotten sustained, but we're not defending the actions here. We're defending the Constitution. And the Constitution is what protects all of us from living in a wild society here. And the Constitution says the Constitution coupled with the New York statutes and Constitution say, you can't do it twice. You don't get two bites at the apple. The feds are going to get their pound of flesh, but you don't get to do it again, New York State. I don't know how we know what we can afford, but can I get a soap?

some towels, I guess? Yeah, let's just check your balance, Mangione. It looks like it is $400,000. Wait, what? What are you talking about? What do you mean? Where is that coming from? It looks like a couple of places.

Milfs for healthcare reform. Bottoms United for Luigi. This last, Lindsay Graham? That's Luigi, the musical. we got it off Insta, to David Sarni joining us, former NYPD. He's raised not 400,000, but $1.3 million for a legal fund from the public. I mean, there are people starving and dying right now, children that can't get to school, children that don't have lunch, crime victims that cannot be helped.

because we don't have the money and people have donated $1.3 million to a cold-blooded killer. His commissary alone to buy crackers in DO is 40 grand.

40 grand for an admitted cold-blooded killer, Sarnie. Yeah, it's it shocks this vile thing. I've, I,

I've said this a thousand times, I'll say a thousand more. There's no justification for a murder. There is no reason or anyone to believe and rationalize the actions that were committed that day, that morning, by the defendant in this case, nothing. And it is amazing how the warped sense of morality, the moral compass has been broken so much that, you know, we talk about when Manson had his family and everything else. This is beyond that because now you have social media and people just adhere to this belief that this was a justifiable assassination. It's not. The crime is murder. What he did is murder.

There's no justification for it. Whatever people believe in, they forget the fact that somebody lost a family member, someone lost a father, a wife and relatives. This is something that it shocks me. I'm disgusted by it. and in my 27 years of doing the job and being in the police department to see how people justify it, who don't even know the person in general in justifying it is beyond. And I'm glad at least we got something. We're hoping that will he be trial for the murder?

But right now you have the plea and effect. And I don't know what's going to happen with Judge Carroll. He's been doing this trial the entire time. He's a fair judge. And we've seen maneuvering by the defense. I mean, they're not doing anything wrong. they're doing their job. Now, let's see if the Manhattan DA's office and Alvin Braggs people can do their job

and push this to the murder charge that we're looking for in New York State. Lauren Conlon, investigative reporter LA Magazine, co-star pop crime TV. What happens now? Yes, so Luigi Mangione gets federally sentenced on December 18th, but Judge Carroll on Monday, April 17th, actually posted that the defense has until October or I'm sorry the people have until October 9th to respond to the defenses motion to dismiss. So we will see what happens there. Luigi state trial, Nancy, it's adjourned. We don't go back to state court until December.

...are better off without him. They need blood money kids. Brian Thompson. I don't give a blind guy. Millions of Americans. I liked it. He's been 12 for more deaths than Osama bin Laden. And I remember Americans celebrating when Osama bin Laden was killed. It's not like we don't understand heroic violence or like when violence is good. That's at Malcrane Newman on X. Karen, start with us renowned forensic psychologist. What is wrong with them? They don't know that anything's wrong with them. So many people are joining in and they're getting rewarded for this behavior. And the truth is they've turned him into like a modern day Robin Hood. Like somebody who is

doing something for everyone who committed a crime. All of a sudden, Brian Thompson is not a person. He's been too humanized and he's turned into a symbol, a symbol of the health care system that is failing everyone. But that is not what we really have here, but that's what they're telling themselves. And they're enthralled by him. He's also good looking. So he has that halo effect where people begin to attach all kinds of different things to him because of how good he looks, like he must be worthwhile, he must be doing the right thing. And yet we know, none of this really makes sense. There is nothing that he did that prevents this family from suffering.

And Brian Thompson was not the person responsible at all for the health care system. That's a whole different ballgame. And yet they're getting attention and they feel like maybe he'll notice them. And they'll be the special person who could take this wounded bird and make him feel whole again. That's the kind of thing that goes into this bad boy love fandom that we're seeing. Karen Stark, you stated he's good looking. Let the record reflect, I disagree with you. He looks like the devil to me.

People thought Ted Bundy was good looking. People think Chris Watts is good looking. not. They're the devil. And you said the health care industry, insurance, big insurance, fail people. I just want to put it out there. I only saw my father shed a tear and you knew my dad very well. One time when his mother passed away, but he almost shed a tear when he got the bill from his first coronary thrombosis. He's in his 30s. I had my mom. I had my my 16th birthday in the hospital with my father. We got a bill for like $150,000, a bill.

And he was working on the railroad, Norfolk Southern Railroad. My mother was a payroll clerk. My dad almost cried. I saw his eyes fill up when he got that bill. Insurance ended up paying all but about $15,000. And my father and mother, they didn't just ignore the debt like people don't pay their student loans. They paid every month until they paid that 15 grand off. All right.

And to do it, my mom would have a list when we go to the grocery store and we could not get anything off the list. I remember asking, you know, at the checkout line, they have candy and all that for children waiting in line. I asked for something. My mother didn't say anything back. She just turned around and looked at it. me like, I knew we couldn't have that. We could not have the bubble gum, period, because we had to pay off that hospital bill. And we did. So you just throw it out there that the insurance industry sucks. I don't know about that. If you know or think you know anything regarding this case,

the state could use. Dial 800 225-5-3-2-4. Or 577 tips. That's 800 577-8-4-77. Tonight we remember an American hero, Lieutenant Deborah Lucinda Clayton, Orlando PD, shot and killed in the line of duty

and protecting the public for 17 years, leaving behind her husband, now a widower, Seth, and their son, Johnny. American hero, Deborah Lucinda Clayton. Thank you to our guests, but especially to you for being us tonight. Nancy Gray, signing off for tonight, but I'll see you tomorrow night. And until then, good night, friend. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human.