Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - AUTISTIC BOY SEBASTIAN ROGERS GLASSES FOUND?

Episode Date: April 3, 2024

New searches are underway by volunteers as the hunt for Sebastian Rogers continues. Glasses were found in the area and police are working to determine whether those glasses belong to the missing teen.  Initially, mother Katie Proudfoot reports the autistic teen missing after finding his bed empty in the morning before school.  An extensive search began with authorities using helicopters, drones, search-and-rescue dogs, boats, and teams on foot. Over 1,000 square miles have been covered, including a landfill across state lines in Kentucky.   Police officials say so far there is still no indication of foul play as the investigation enters week six.  Joining Nancy Grace Today:  Seth Rogers- Sebastian’s father, #SebastianStrong, Facebook: Sebastian Rogers  Missing, GofundMe: Finding Sebastian Rogers family support: https://www.gofundme.com/f/finding-sebastian-rogers-family-support Dr. Shari Schwartz – Forensic Psychologist (Specializing in Capital Mitigation and Victim Advocacy); Author: “Criminal Behavior” and “Where Law and Psychology Intersect: Issues in Legal Psychology;” Twitter: @TrialDoc” Brian Trascher – Vice President of the United Cajun Navy Courtney Lasky, M.Ed., LBA, BCBA  –  Board-certified Behavior Analyst, Autism Expert, and Chief Clinical Officer with Little Stars Therapy Services Lauren Conlin – Investigative Journalist, Host of The Outlier Podcast, and also Host of “Corruption: What Happened to Grant Solomon; X- @Conlin_Lauren/ Instagram- @LaurenEmilyConlin/YouTube- @LaurenConlin4  Dave Mack- CrimeOnline Investigative Reporter     See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Literally, in the last hour, a new search has been launched for missing autistic boy Sebastian Rogers. Why? Why is there a new search re-canvassing areas that have already been searched? Could it have anything to do with the fact that Sebastian's glasses may have been found? And right now, controversy swirling about a polygraph. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime

Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories. Joining me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now, but I do know this. I don't need an expert to tell me that there has been an alert that went out to media. A new search is taking place right now as we speak for Sebastian Rogers, the missing autistic boy. What does that mean? Is there new information that has not been released to us? Has a location been identified that is more important than other locations? This is unusual for a research of an area that may have already been searched.

What precipitated the new search? This, as we learn, glasses, eyeglasses have been found. Are they Sebastian's? As we learn, glasses, eyeglasses have been found. Are they Sebastian's? First of all, on the new search, joining me, Lauren Conlon, investigative reporter and host of The Outlier. Lauren, thank you for being with us. I understand that a new search has just been launched. Who, what, where, when, why? Tell me. Yes. So as you said, Nancy, it's in Hendersonville and it's the same areas and it's sheriffs

in Sumner County and counties all over and it's EMS workers and it's more volunteers and the, I believe it is the Sumner County EMS is saying six to 10 miles and, uh, and so on. So this happened this morning. This is breaking news. They are saying this is, has nothing to do with the press conference yesterday with the glasses found, but that is all we know. Guys, when you hear Lauren Conlon, who's been on the case from the very beginning of missing autistic boy, Sebastian Rogers. When you hear her say

volunteers, there's a caveat to that. They are law enforcement, EMTs, people in the criminal law business, all banding together for a new search. This, as we learn that glasses have been found, glasses found, that could be very significant. And joining me is someone who is acutely aware of all the facts surrounding that pair of glasses. Seth Rogers is with us. Seth is Sebastian's biological father. And you may have gone online and seen Seth. At first, you see nothing but densely forested woodland.

And then you realize it's Seth Rogers out there on foot looking for his son. He hasn't quit. He took a brief respite over Easter break. And now he's back at it. Seth Rogers, thank you for being with us. You can find him at Sebastian Strong. Seth, tell me about the discovery of the glasses. My volunteers found them in Gallatin at around 210 Hutt Street on Monday.

Seth, no offense, but you're speaking Greek to me. Okay. Where is that? Where is that in relation to Sebastian's home where he was living with his mother, Ms. Proudfoot? It's about 14 miles from his mom's residence. It's not in Hendersonville. Had he recently gotten new glasses or am I seeing Seth Rogers his actual glasses? They were close enough that I asked Sumner County to to bag and tag them. I mean when I saw them through the pictures from my volunteers and they stated they couldn't get a hold of anybody I flagged down a deputy sheriff and I told them to put on some gloves, put them in a bag and bring

them in and that's what they did. They took pictures around the area to show where they were laying and how they were laying on the street so they would have some type of regulation on where they were placed or left at or however they needed. And they brought them in to where our volunteers gather every morning and a chain of evidence was completed and they took them in. Guys, joining us is Sebastian's biological father, Seth Rogers. Seth, I want to circle back to what you said. These glasses were found about 14 miles

from where Sebastian resided with his mother and stepfather. A volunteer found them. Were you on the search when the volunteer found them? I was not with the group. Not with that group. Where then? Correct. Were the glasses out in a forested area? I heard you mention a street. Were they thrown by the side of the street? They were on the side of the road. So, okay, you just clarified something for me. It's in a residential area like a cul-de-sac? I don't believe it was a cul-de-sac, but I believe it's a Hutch Court. So I believe it was leading into a cul-de-sac. If you were in a car, how long would it take you to get from where Sebastian lived with his mom to where the glasses were found? Depending on traffic, probably about 14, 15 minutes.

Of course, we're talking about an area that has hills, some mountains. So it's not always as simple as it sounds to go 14 miles. It could take 14 minutes. It could take an hour if you have to go over a hill to get there. But long story short, he's telling us about 15 minutes from home. Do you believe Sebastian has ever walked through this area? I have no idea. I don't even know what's in the area. I wonder if he had any friends there. But you believe these glasses are similar enough to the glasses we're seeing that you asked for them to be bagged.

Were they cracked? Were they broken in any way? No, ma'am. They had some scratch marks on the inside of the nose piece. And that was it. The lenses weren't scratched. There was no scuff marks on the inside of the nose piece, and that was it. The lenses weren't scratched. There was no scuff marks on the outside of them. Guys, you are hearing Seth Rogers, this is Sebastian's bio dad, speaking about a discovery this weekend,

a discovery regarding Sebastian's glasses. Now, the reality is it is a simple matter to determine if these are really his. Seth is telling us they look enough like them that they could very well be his and they've been taken into evidence to make sure. What we do is take the lens out and compare it to his last diagnosis and his last lens prescription to find out are these really Sebastian's glasses? And if so, why were they there? Also, we're going to be looking for prints. We're going to be looking for any DNA at all on these glasses.

What, if anything, can they tell us? Back to Lauren Conlon, guys. Right now, as we are speaking, a new search is underway for Sebastian. Lauren Conlon joining us from the outlier. Lauren, any idea what caused, what sparked a new search? I mean, I think people at this point, and obviously Seth Rogers included, are so worried and so concerned, especially after hearing about the glasses. So I personally think this also has to do with the Cajun Navy last week saying, okay, we're going to step back. We're going to regroup. We're not going to stop.

And so in turn, I think more people, more organizations stepped up to help. So bottom line, we don't know. Maybe the glasses, maybe the fact that Cajun Navy is stepping back, but we know the search is happening right now and we know where the search is. It's an area that has already been searched, which I find very, very intriguing. Why are they researching a particular area? Nancy, if I can jump in for just a second. There has just been a post from the Sumner County Sheriff's Office. They want to clarify that those eyeglasses that were found are not, again, are not related to Sebastian Rogers. Guys, in addition to Lauren Collin and

Seth Rogers joining us is Dave Mack, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter who has also been on the disappearance of Sebastian Rogers from the very, very beginning. Dave Mack, let me just say at the outset, recently, the stepfather, Mr. Proudfoot, stated that he would take a polygraph if we set it up. As a matter of fact, take a listen to this. Have the two of you taken a polygraph? I have. I have not. Would you be willing to? I've offered and volunteered on many occasions to take a polygraph,

and I was told directly by law enforcement because of my whereabouts, I did not need one. I understand. Ms. Proudfoot, did you pass your polygraph? I did. Okay. Now, listen to this. He says, I've offered and volunteered on many occasions to take a polygraph.

I was told directly by law enforcement because of my whereabouts, I did not need one. Listen to more. And Mr. Proudfoot, you have volunteered to take a poly? Yes, ma'am. If I were to set up a poly for you, would you take it? Name the place and time, ma'am. I'll be there. Well, we did. We did that. We set up a polygrapher, a very well-respected polygrapher, a place and a time. Mr. Proudfoot tells us that he has been instructed by the TBI not to be on with us today

and ask for help finding his son, his stepson, and not to take a polygraph. I've never heard of that. I always loved it when witnesses, targets, or defendants, anybody would take a polygraph. If I want my own polygraph, I'll get one as an assistant district attorney. So I find that very curious that he would be dissuaded from asking for the help from the public as we see a volunteer search launching right now with law enforcement and not to take a polygraph. Now, very curious. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. crime stories with nancy grace dave mack didn't mr proudfoot chris proudfoot sebastian rogers stepfather didn't he tell us

he would take the polygraph anywhere, anytime. Isn't that true? He said it. Anywhere you name the place, I'll be there. He also told us, should I believe him or my lion ears, that he has never taken a polygraph before. Did he tell us that? That's what he said. He told you that. Okay. Dave Mack, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Did he not tell another outlet he had already taken a polygraph and passed it? Yep, he sure did. Exact words.

He said somebody asked. Explain, please. He did interviews. He did a number of interviews, Nancy, when and in this one particular asked about, have you taken a polygraph? He said somebody asked the question. This is a direct quote. Was a polygraph taken and has it been passed? Yes.

I didn't specify who or when, but what I can tell you, everything has been vetted completely. Polygraphs have come back as passed. So I'm confused as in why they're all wondering if myself, my wife, and the biological father took one. Exact words. That's what he said. Okay, but Seth Rogers, this is Sebastian's dad, his bio dad. Sebastian, Seth, I don't understand that because he told me he would take a polygraph if I set it up. I set it up.

I went through a lot of hoops to get it set up. One convenient to him in the area where he says he's working. Then he wouldn't take it and blames the TBI. So now I find out he sold other outlets. He's taken one and passed. Do you know the truth? I don't. I really don't know.

But I'll tell you what. I volunteered to take Polygraph. I was told that I wasn't. I didn't need to because they have my location and whereabouts, but I still volunteered. And if somebody wants me to take one, that's something on my own free will. I haven't been told by TBI that I can't take one. I've got a lot of things I need to dissect very quickly. Dave Mack, you and I have been scouring the internet, um, and, and speaking to various witnesses. Mr. Proudfoot tells me to my face that he hit Sebastian with a belt.

This is an autistic boy, an autistic boy. Do they, at his level of severity of autism? And I've got an expert. Courtney Lasky is going to explain this to me. I did not teach this in law school. How would that affect a child with autism? But but that said, I want to focus on what I'm hearing. Dave Mack, help me, Dave. I'm hearing that it happened years ago. In both of those quotes where

you heard Chris Proudfoot speaking, he said several years ago. Then he says, when I press him on that, he says at least three years ago. However, he stated a different scenario to a different person. Explain, Dave Mack. He did a YouTube interview, and in that interview, he described the actual belt whack. And, you know, in your interview, he said that the belt whack did not lead to a CPS call. Stop. I asked you about the age of Sebastian when Sebastian was hit with a belt. One thing at a time, brother. The age of Sebastian. He said it was three years ago. He said in another interview that the 15-year-old boy was upset. He was in trouble. He said he's 15 and in trouble. He was describing why Sebastian was mad about the punishment, the whack. And he said, 15 year old boy. Punishment. Now, that's not three years

ago, that's within the last 12 months. That is within the same year that Sebastian goes missing. That is a significant point. And in your interview, Katie agreed with him. She was saying at least three years. Yes, she did. You're right. You're absolutely right. What?

What? What's that? His birthday is December 7th. He just turned 15. Okay. The significance of that is that he had not been 15 that long, according to this, when he got whacked with a belt. So does it matter when he got whacked with a belt? To me, it matters if you're telling two different stories. That's what matters.

I've never been hit or hit anyone with a belt. And I remember the last time either one of my children were spanked. It was Lucy because she clobbered John David in the head with a piece of wood. She turned around and looked at me and went, is that it? Basically, because I was spanking her through a huge diapy. Okay. It didn't work. So that was the last smack. Um, long story short, there's a whole scenario that I need to talk with, um, Ms. Lasky about, uh, hitting a child that is autistic with the belt or any child with the belt for Pete's sake. But that said, what's concerning me now is two different stories. And as Dave Mack first said, we've got a CPS issue because if you will recall

Dave Mack and that last sound I played on Mr. Proudfoot speaking to me, I said, how did that turn into a CPS child protective services complaint? And he says that did not turn into a CPS complaint, but wait a minute. He's told a different story to a different person. Tell me, Dave Mack, and make sure you're right. Describing the belt whack. The specific belt whack hit him one time with the belt. And Chris Proudfoot said that Sebastian went to school, told a teacher what had happened. And he actually says the school, they're an

automatic reporter, and they reported it to CPS. He went further to say, that night, when they were sitting down to dinner, a CPS worker came to their house that evening. To their house. And by the way, he added, they knew this CPS worker because she had been to the house before. He went on to explain heroically how he didn't get in trouble, but that this caseworker allegedly took Sebastian outside and told him, you can't tell lies about people. You'll get in trouble yourself. So the story from Chris Proudfoot in this other version is that he spanked Sebastian. Sebastian went to school and told a teacher.

Teacher reported it to CPS. CPS came out of their house that night while they're eating dinner and didn't even want to hear Chris Proudfoot's side of the story. He said, I already know what happened and took Sebastian outside and talked to him. The boy needed help and there was nobody helping apparently. Okay, Liz, if you don't mind, could you play 23 for me one more time? Listen to Sebastian's stepfather, Mr. Proudfoot. Was that the first time you had ever hit him with a belt? Yes, ma'am. The one and only time, actually.

When was this? Years ago, ma'am. Any idea how many? Three, ten, one? any idea how many three ten one uh it probably at least three years ago i don't understand how that turned into a cps or child protective services complaint how were they alerted that you hit him with a bat? That did not turn into a CPS service call. As we go to air right now, we are learning a new search is being conducted by LA law enforcement volunteers, apparently re-canvassing an area that has already been searched.

Why? Why the focus on that one area? Joining me in the last moments, Brian Trasher joining us, VP of the United Cajun Navy. Brian, you and I have been talking a lot. A lot is happening. One, you called off the search one day just before the search started. And two, there's a lot of hate going on against the Cajun Navy. I don't get it. You're out there on your own time, volunteering, trying to help find Sebastian or a clue of Sebastian. Somebody is full of a lot of hate for volunteers, which proves no good deed goes unpunished. And I'm hearing, by the way, the same thing, something similar from Seth Rogers, who is Sebastian's bio dad. The searches are being torpedoed. I don't understand it. Number one, Brian Trasher,

why has the Cajun Navy pulled out of a search? Well, just to be clear, we gave up or called off leading the public searches. So we're no longer putting out a public call for volunteers and leading searches with volunteers. We did have some volunteers that were threatened, despite what the local PD said in their press conference. We did have some credible threats. We have recordings of telephone threats. We have surveillance video of in-person threats. I know it was said that there was no police report filed.

There was a police report filed about a threat with Metro Nashville PD. It's not clear as to whether those departments share information with each other. But we did provide a copy of that report with your producers just to show that we are telling the truth. Why the hate? I think that there are some people out there who make money off of tragedies, and when volunteer groups come in and try to take over and help, I think it takes away from their potential revenue, and when you mess with people's money, they get mad. I think that's just part of it. I had a conversation with Seth Rogers on Easter Sunday. He has his own theories about why himself and other volunteer groups are being impeded in the search for Sebastian, about why they're receiving so much online hate. I'll let

Seth speak for himself and his own experience. Yes, we'll do that. I want to talk to you about you and the Cajun Navy. I heard some of the threats myself, recorded threats. But could you succinctly, in a nutshell, explain what type of threats have been leveled against members of the Cajun Navy who are out trying to find Sebastian. Basically, just a lot of, you know, we're going to run you out of town. We're going to dox you. We're going to, you know, tell everybody where your family lives, things like that. But, you know, Nancy, what we've found is that we've run background checks on all the people that have made these threats. They thought they could remain anonymous. And they're all career criminals. They all have rap sheets a mile long. So criminal activity is nothing new to them.

So it doesn't surprise us that they would have the gumption to go ahead and make threats like this. But I think what they were mistaken is when they thought there was going to be no retaliation. And when we basically started exposing these people and putting information out there, boy, they really freaked out. So, you know, my message to those people making threats, you know, if you'll stop lying about the United Cajun Navy, we'll stop telling the truth about you. Okay, you know what? I don't really care, Brian, who's lying on who. Those are just words.

I care about finding Sebastian. And I care about someone trying to torpedo the search, be it with law enforcement, with the Cajun Navy, with Seth Rogers, the biological father of Sebastian. Seth Rogers, you've told me that someone is also trying to sabotage your search for your own son. What's happening? Somebody doesn't want me to find my son. They have been, their things have been coming in off the internet that I need to stop searching for him. I've had people following me around since, I would say day nine, day 10. People have been following me around. Once I started getting volunteers to help me, they started following around my volunteers, trying to be an intimidating factor.

And now I found out that not only that, but they're going back to where we've already flyered and they're taking the flyers down. Okay. I don't know what to make of this. Brian Trasher is the vice president of the United Cajun Navy. Okay. And there have been many incarnations of the Cajun Navy. But this is what I know. This group is out searching for Sebastian. They called off part of the search because they perceived threats. Now, the bio dad, Seth, is telling me that flyers have been torn down for Sebastian. I don't understand

that. What's happening, Brian? Yeah, I mean, as you heard us say in the past, you now heard Sebastian's father, Seth, say that there are without question people in the local community, whether the locals or not remains to be seen. But there are people there in Sumner County that do not want this boy found and they want people who are searching for him to stop. And they resorted to threats to try to make them stop. Fortunately, it hasn't worked because we still have people out there looking. And I know Seth is not going to stop looking for his son. Guys, take a listen to what Dave Mack from Crime Online has to say. The United Cajun Navy surprised many people that showed up

for a recent search in Hendersonville for Sebastian Rogers. Just before people were preparing to gather, the United Cajun Navy came out with a post on Facebook and said they were calling off their search for Sebastian Rogers over security reasons. Pressed for more details, the United Cajun Navy said they are concerned over the security for their staff and volunteers, as some are getting death threats online and in person. They said they were going to regroup in a few days and decide how best to move forward. Again, no good deed going unpunished.

Why would people tear down flyers that have been placed up by Sebastian's father looking for him and the toll free numbers and descriptions of the boy? Why is this happening? And why is the Cajun Navy being threatened? I want to figure out, Brian Trasher, how you pick that particular area to search. It was a combination of some information when we first got there that Seth provided, some areas that he had showed us that had already been searched and areas that he felt would be good to search. Other areas were just kind of triangulating from the last known location of the young man at his home and trying to figure out some places he would have been easy for him to walk to, places that he frequented before. We knew that there were some places that he liked to visit. But from from what his mother said, he didn't have a history of wandering off without telling anybody.

So, you know, we we wanted to make sure that we that we were searching every nook and cranny that we could to find this boy. What can you tell me about that retention pond? There were reports a dog had hit on the retention pond. The pond was drained and nothing was found. Do I have that correct? I don't have any information with regards to that. I know there's been a lot of confusion about when dogs hit and where and things like that. We go with the information that we have at the time.

My understanding is that that pond was drained and nothing was found there. But Seth might be able to tell you a little bit more about some of the areas that the dogs searched closer to the home and if there were confirmed hits or not. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Welcome back, everybody. Seth Rogers joining us. This is Sebastian Rogers, biological father. You can find him at Sebastian Strong. Seth, again, thank you for being with us so much. I mean, when you're searching for a missing child, I like the focus to be on what is being done to find the child. What can we do to help find the child? But instead,

there's all this controversy surrounding the search for Sebastian. And I find that very odd that people are not pulling together to try to find Sebastian. But that said, can you please shed some light on the search that occurred around the Proudfoot home? Did dogs hit on areas around the home and leading to the retention pond? I was first told by one of the dog handlers that their dog did hit on a scent that took him over into the construction area to a retention pond. I was later told by law enforcement that it was a false hit. I was also informed that they searched that pond where the dog went to and they did not find anything. And I was told that they were going to actually go back

and drain that retention pond and they had drained a separate retention pond. So you think they may have already drained two ponds? Yes, ma'am. The reason I'm asking, Seth, is because your ex, Ms. Proudfoot, stated that the dog hit and got Sebastian's scent around the home. Now I'm hearing it didn't. Was that hit at the retention pond, the false hit, or was it around their home? I'm being told by law enforcement that the dog hit to the retention pond was a false hit. Do you know of any hit by the dogs around the Proudfoot home at all? Not on the outside.

Were there hits on the inside? I believe so. Okay, there should have been. Now, this is my conundrum, Seth. If there are no hits for Sebastian outside the Proudfoot home, that would suggest he did not leave the home. Earlier, I was asking the Proudfoots about their vehicles, what's their make, model, and year, to determine if there was a navigation system in those vehicles that could tell me if the vehicles left the home that night. That's what I was getting at. I don't know the answer to that yet, but I believe that there were. You're telling me you were not told of any canine hit

around the home. Is that correct? Yes, ma'am. That's critical. Joining me, Dr. Sherry Schwartz, forensic psychologist who specializes in forensic psychology, capital mitigation and victim advocacy at PantherMitigation.com. Dr. Sherry, this search for Sebastian, if he is alive, he could still be saved. But it is degrading into a lot of infighting amongst searchers. I don't understand that. I don't understand it either. And I certainly am no expert in these kinds of searches, but it doesn't seem to me that I've ever heard of anything so vitriolic in the behavior of people searching to find a missing teenager. One of the things that seems to be happening is there seems to be maybe a little bit of territory, you know, protecting their territory type thing, wanting maybe to be the organization.

Dr. Sherry. Yes. They're out in the middle of the woods. Whose territory is that? Nobody's nobody no i i agree with you 100 nancy uh the thing is you know we know now that trolling is a thing people troll i don't understand why this situation would attract trolls and for people to make threats when everybody just wants to find this little boy, preferably alive, it seems to me that people should be jumping in to help. So I don't have an explanation for that other than that when they can remain anonymous, relatively anonymous,

the trolling seems to increase. But as Brian pointed out earlier, when these people are exposed, all of a sudden they back off because they don't want to be known as trolls. Another question to you, Seth Rogers. This is Sebastian's biological father who has been out on foot searching for his son. Seth, did you say you have or have not, would, would not take a polygraph? I would. Wonderful. If I set one up for you, will you take the polygraph? Yes, ma'am.

Okay, because you know, I will hold this against you if you then don't take the polygraph. Right? You understand that? Yes, ma'am. Because I want to know where everybody really was that night. For instance, if Mr. Proudfoot was where he says he is, says he was at work near Memphis, I believe he would have been in his RV. Is that your understanding, Seth? That would be my understanding. So if you're in an RV park and I've been in a lot of them with the twins and my husband, they are covered in security cams. Where's the security footage?

Did he leave? Did he go home? I don't know. Has his RV been seized? Has it been processed? This does not mean at all that he had anything to do with Sebastian's disappearance. This is part of a thorough investigation. That's all I'm saying. Question. Did Sebastian know how to swim? Yes, ma'am. My son was like a fish. Interesting. Like a fish. He could walk. Okay. Good to know. We've had a lot of questions about that i have a question for seth please jump in and remember guys i we're not having high tea at windsor castle i don't know how many times i gotta tell you this we're not with charles and camilla so jump in you're hearing lauren conley go ahead lauren yes seth so we've heard law enforcement state many times that

all the parents are cooperating to me this is not the same thing as being ruled out as a suspect has law enforcement directly said to you we are ruling you out as a suspect or we are looking at someone else as a suspect I'm just curious the difference there they've told me that we're all suspects. We're all suspects until Sebastian is found. This is an open investigation. So the only way that the investigation will close is we find Sebastian. And that's my purpose. Right. And in terms of the last time I was on this panel and we did ask Chris Proudfoot about the United Cajun Navy, his words exactly were when they were at a restaurant and Katie was on the phone. He said, quote, my wife was on the phone with the Cajun Navy and that's how they were brought in. Did you happen to hear him say that?

I've heard that he said that okay and that is not true at all this is all you i've seen your mother post about this i've seen the cajun navy post about you i just heard brian so that is false from my understanding they're the ones that i reached out to them they were trying to get a hold of me. I had somebody get a phone number so I could turn around and speak to Mr. Terrell. And I called him up on his personal cell phone. That's Todd.

Okay. Got it. And then the last thing was that everybody wants to know the picture with Sebastian without the glasses. You asked for that to be Photoshopped so people could see what he looked like without glasses. Just in case those are possibly his. That is correct. Yes, ma'am.

Joining me right now, a special guest, Courtney Lasky, board certified behavior analyst, autism expert, chief clinical officer with Little Starts Therapy Service. Courtney, thank you for being with us. I understand. And of course, Seth, correct me if I'm wrong, that Sebastian suffered 6Q27 chromosomal deletion disorder. What is that? And how would that affect him being lost right now? Yes. So anytime we have a chromosomal deletion syndrome, we can think of it as an umbrella term. Our chromosomes act as codes in our behavior, the way we develop with his specific deletion of the 6Q27 chromosome. The symptoms related to that, even though it is rare, it does associate with intellectual disabilities. So we would see the symptomology of autism spectrum disorders. But sadly, it also is associated with a higher risk of seizures and possible heart defects.

It's very, very worrisome that Sebastian might have those symptoms and be gone for so long without medical care. How would that affect him now if he is out there and if he's still alive and lost? Yes. Anytime we have that intellectual disability, symptoms related to autism, we know that those social skills, our communication, which not only is our expressive language, but it's also our receptive. What we're understanding, how we're processing the environment around us. He may be struggling with understanding what is happening, what he should do in different circumstances. I am so glad to hear Mr. Rogers saying that he swims like a fish because we do know that 91% of autistic children, that is the highest risk of death for them is drowning. It's scary.

So we need that processing. He has probably a delayed sense of danger and understanding what is dangerous in certain circumstances. Guys, I want you to stop for just one moment. You're hearing Courtney Lasky, who's an autism expert. What what if what if he's still alive what if he's being held against his will will what if he's being sex assaulted day after day after day I have a strong hope that he is alive I have a strong strong hope that he is doing everything he can to process the situation around him. We know that any experience outside of his normal routine is going to be traumatic. He will come away from this situation with definite phobias, more extreme rigidity in his routines, and just the inability possibly

to communicate what has happened to him. I want to go back to Seth Rogers. Seth, I have so many questions for you, but we're running out of our time together for today. But I want to ask you this. I was listening to a statement of one of Mr. Proudfoot's wives. I believe there have been five. I'm not judging. I don't care who marries who or doesn't marry who. But this particular one named Nina stated that they had two children, one she had from a prior relationship, the second she had with him, and that the daughter had braces and he hit the daughter

in the mouth and busted her mouth. Guys, remember, Mr. Proudfoot nor the mother have been named a suspect or a POI in this case. My question to you, Seth, did you know about any of that? I mean, she's on tape saying it. I watched her say it. Did you have any idea that there may have been other issues of violence with children? No, ma'am, I didn't. And I know that Chris has been in Sebastian's life for a while now before me and Katie were divorced. Has Sebastian ever said to you or tried to communicate to you abuse in the home? No.

He's on multiple occasions sit there and has told me he doesn't want to go back. And I've asked him, why don't you want to go back? And he wouldn't tell me. He didn't say why. He was just like, I just don't want to go back. And it's, you know, at that point in time, I'm just like, okay, well, maybe it's the freedom that he gets at my house. And he's a teenager. Right.

And now I'm finding out a lot of this stuff. And it's, I wish he had told me. Guys, won't you help us find Sebastian? 1-800-TBI-FIND. 1-800-8BI-FIND. 1-800-824-3463. Let's pause now and remember an American hero, Jonathan Diller, just 31 years old, shot during a routine traffic stop, New York, from a long line of law enforcement, and Jonathan, a recent father,

leaving behind his beautiful wife, Stephanie, and one-year-old baby boy, Ryan. Jonathan Diller, American hero. I want to thank all of our guests, but especially thanks to you for being with us. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.