Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - "BABY-FACE" KILLERS on the run after cold-blooded murders of North Carolina tourist, her lover and college professor!

Episode Date: July 29, 2019

Two teens are wanted in the brutal murders of three people. Kam McLeod and Bryer Schmegelsky have so far eluded police, and residents have been warned to not approach the pair. Communities are on lockdown as police go door to door in their search. Joining Nancy Grace to discuss the case: Defense Attorney Jason Oshins, Forensics Expert Karen Smith - Forensic Expert, Psychologist Caryn Stark and Crime Online reporter Ellen Killoran. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The RCMP are now considering Cam McLeod and Briar Schmigelski as suspects. 19-year-old Cam McLeod and 18-year- old Briar Schmigelski were feared to be missing after their camper was discovered torched on the side of a highway in Canada on Thursday, an unidentified burned body nearby. A worried Briar Schmigelski's father spoke to Check TV two days ago. They're just kids on an adventure, like they're good boys. Those two boys are still out there. Go find them. The pair disappeared just days after 24-year-old American Chyna Deese and her Australian boyfriend,

23-year-old Lucas Fowler, were brutally gunned down on a lonely Canadian road just 300 miles away. No longer considered good boys, they're now considered deadly. Consider them dangerous. Do not approach. Take no action and call immediately. 911. Two kids on an adventure? What? Who the hay said that?

It had to be one of their fathers. Two kids, two kids on an adventure. You know, I just took the twins to scout camp. Now, that was an adventure. We'd hike back and forth to the mess house. We would do wood cutting and Lucy got on a horse. It was awesome. That's an adventure. This so-called adventure involves three dead bodies, including a gorgeous American girl and her fiance dead on the side of the road. That is hardly an adventure. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Right now, a tiny village and the sights, the crosshairs of police on lockdown in a manhunt for a serial killer, a group of suspects after their

apparently spotted foraging for food. did locals unwittingly help them? Joining me in all-star lineup, Jason Ocean's renowned defense attorney, Karen Smith, forensics expert, founder of Bare Bones Consulting, Karen Stark, psychologist out of Manhattan. You can find her at karenstark.com. And joining me right now, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter Ellen Killorn. Ellen, I want to start at the beginning. What happened? July 15th, the bodies of a young couple, Lucas Fowler and his girlfriend, China Deese, who's from North Carolina, who were traveling together on a road trip,

are found shot to death in a remote area of Highway 97. Four days later, a burned body is found about a mile away from a burned-out pickup truck, about 300 miles away. As a matter of fact, E.K., take a listen to our friend Matt Gutman at GMA. Is there anything that links these two separate events, the Deese and Fowler murders and the death of this unidentified man? Not that we're aware of right now. They're the link. They're the link. Police believe they first murdered Deese and Fowler by their van and then three days later, the other man. They were last spotted in this 2011 Toyota RAV4. Police releasing this photo of the pair in Saskatchewan Tuesday.

They now tell ABC News the teens may be in Manitoba, over 2,000 miles away from the location of the murders. Overnight, Deese's brother, through his grief, speaking to GMA, calling for justice. None of this is going to change not having the most beautiful person in our lives anymore but I just hope that whoever did this can get what they deserve. Now police tell us that they don't have any criminal record. These teens weren't on their radar. They've traveled over 2,000 miles mostly in rural Canada but also in national parks which is why police are urging people to remain

vigilant because these two are considered armed and dangerous. And because there's this massive manhunt on, police tell us they could be just one tip away from closing in on them. Did I just hear, Alan Kaloran, that they could be 2,000 miles away from the dead bodies? It's truly amazing, Nancy, how far these two suspects have been able to go without being apprehended. Yes, it absolutely looks like they have gone 2,000 miles away through the help of stolen cars. Well, okay, I'm getting ahead of myself. Tell me about these two victims. I know one is an American girl that was on kind of a dream road trip with her fiance. They're both, of course, gorgeous.

He's from, I think, Australia. They're seeing the world, I think, traveling in a van, and suddenly nobody hears from them, and that is when their bodies are found. What do you know about them? That's all correct, Nancy, what you said. Lucas Fowler was an Australian native. His father is actually a police officer. They had been together for a couple of years. They both loved to travel. They loved each other. And that's what they were doing. The very last thing that the very

last image that we saw of them was at a gas station not long before they were murdered. And they're in an embrace. What about the girl? She is from North Carolina. She's an American. She met her boyfriend while they were traveling because that's what they both love to do, and she joined him on a road trip through the country of Canada. EK is referring to China Deese, just 23 years old of North Carolina. The boyfriend, Lucas Fowler, 24 years old, dad a cop. How does Leonard Dyke, 65, of Vancouver fit into this scenario, EK?

Well, we don't even know yet how he was killed, but we know that he was. Leonard Dyke, again, someone who would not have had any enemies he was a university professor he is a botanist and he's his body is found four days after lucas and china burned take a listen to what the father of one of the two as they are called baby face suspects has to. They hung out all the time. Breyer never had Cam stay at his mom's house or his grandmother's. He was always at Cam's place or they had a few other close friends, and they'd have their campouts and all that.

I don't know much. I just don't want to offend Cam's family, okay? I know they're hurting as much as I am. I know they're very confused. All I can say is my son did not have any real guns. My son did not have a vehicle. My son does not know how to drive. He was very introverted.

And he was very heavy into video games. When he came to work for me for the summer, I didn't pay him. I just had a very expensive custom-made computer for him, which he was quite content with. You know, he wasn't into the ones where, you know, you have your machine gun and go shooting people. He was more into strategy, where you move your troops here and there. Strategy has turned awfully real right now with the discovery of three dead bodies, including a 23-year-old North Carolina girl who was out for the adventure of a lifetime. Can you imagine her parents probably, first of all, worried about her. Then as the weeks passed,

she would check in all the time, they would think, oh, what a grand adventure. Wish I could have done something like that when I was growing up. But I had to go straight to work, blah, blah, blah. She's dead. She's gone. And now these two that are called baby-faced killers are on the run of leading police on a wild goose chase now for two weeks and apparently are getting away with it. Two suspected serial killers have now been spotted but still on the run.

A tip was received that the two teens were in the York Landing, Manitoba area. There are a lot of conflicting reports but what we're learning is they were apparently seen at a community landfill foraging for food. So how did two seemingly innocent boys end up like this? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. This case has taken a dramatic turn and police are now saying that they are casting a wide net. They believe the teens are on the run, that they may have changed their appearance. And police have evidence to suggest they may already be thousands of miles away. If you spot Breyer or Cam, consider them dangerous.

An intense manhunt is underway for two Canadian teens, Cam McLeod and Breyer Schmagilski, now suspects in three deaths on rural roads in British Columbia, Canada. The search comes more than a week after the bodies of North Carolina native China Deese and Australian Lucas Fowler were found near their van on the side of the road. The young couple, seen here hugging at a gas station two days before being found, were on a road trip. There was a van broke down, and we just pulled over to see if they needed help.

Curtis Broughton and his wife Sandra say they met the pair shortly before they died, leaving young travelers only after they felt the couple knew how to repair their broken down van. They were happy and smiling and they were on their road trip. They just looked like a young couple in love. The mystery deepened late last week when another body was found some 300 miles away, also on a remote Canadian road. Our friend at CBS, Janet Chamlin. The manhunt mystery going on right now. Suspects Cam McLeod, Brosh McGelsky.

What we know is a 24-year-old man, Lucas Fowler, his North Carolina girlfriend, Chyna Dees, just 23, and now a potential college professor, all victims of the two so-called baby-faced killers. I don't know how they even got that nickname. To Jason Oceans, joining me right now, renowned defense attorney, joining me out of New York, New Jersey area.

Jason, monikers are attached to killers. And I don't like that because somehow it seemingly takes away from the reality. Fused murder, multiple murders, and, you know, leading us, leading authorities on thousands of miles of chase and keeping people at bay in their own homes. This is rural Canada, you know, greater than the size of the United States and 30 million people. Most of this land out here in the West is uninhabited. People might not have access to knowing what's going on. Hey, Jason, you know that my Hallmark movies, they're not mine, they're Hallmarks, but the Haley Dean, based on my books I started writing, actually around the time I met you back in 1997, when I knew nobody in New York, moved up there to start a show with Johnny Cochran,

and he would go out every night to fancy parties. He was the man of the hour after the Simpson verdict. I'd go home to my apartment, and at first I couldn't even afford a TV. Did get one, though, and I would write, started this book. Long story short, they are shot up in Vancouver, and it's a beautiful, beautiful country up there, but you go long, long stretches where you don't see anybody, Jason. I mean, these two, it's like looking for a needle in a haystack.

They're on the continental divide. I mean, you're absolutely right. I mean, in between, you know, the coast of Vancouver and where they're rumored to be is just nothingness. It's beautiful, but it's just wide open. And the amount of law enforcement, the resources, those who know, getting posters up, that type of stuff that we do here and, you know, in the States, out there it's escaping them. And that's why they're covering large grounds seemingly of, of, you know, being on the loose.

It's very scary. Yeah. You know, I want to go back to Karen Stark, psychologist, joining me out of New York. These two have gotten the name. I'm talking about the alleged killers, Smigelski and McLeod. They're young, that's true. But the name Babyface Killer, you know, when the twins got to pick somebody, of course, they can't just write a book report. That would be wrong, Karen Stark.

They have to not only write a book report, okay, they then have to, excuse me, I have to put together a costume for them. Lucy had to be Cleopatra. You know how hard it is to dress her up like Cleopatra? Oh, my stars. Okay. And he chose to be Billy the Kid. I'm like, son, why are you picking a killer? He goes, mom, he's so this and he's so that. I just looked at him. I could not believe my son picked. Well, anyway, so why do we, I hope John David doesn't hear this, why do we glamorize killers? Like, what about all those women throwing themselves at that low moron Chris Watts,

who kills his wife Shanann and his two babies, Charles Manson getting love letters, that Jodi Arias, the Jezebel from hell, she's getting love letters and marriage offers. I don't get it. Why are they the baby face killers? You know, think about it. You go on a road trip. Karen Stark, are you with me? Because I don't hear a peep out of you. I'm listening, Nancy. I'm right there. I'm right here. Karen Stark, you and your husband, Mark, go all over the world. Every time I see Karen Stark, I'm like, what's new? Well, we went to Rome, and we went to Monaco, and we went to Cannes. I'm like, what? All I did was go to work.

Tell me about it. I can live through you. Think about it. You're at one of your many, many luxurious vacations, and you're driving along with Mark, your beloved husband, and bam, these two idiots pop up out of nowhere. They are not baby-faced killers. Why are we saying that? There's nothing baby-faced about them. These are like spree killers, Nancy. These are killers who, they don't take the time to cool down between their killing. So that just encourages them to

go from one to the next. And they encourage each other, usually in a situation like this. One of them is more dominant and the other one more passive. But they have revenge fantasies. Whatever is going on with them, as the father said, one was very introverted and on social media had a lot of Nazi symbolism. And they are not baby innocent to be admired killers. They are cold blooded killers who are having a really good time out there killing people that they don't know just to get revenge and excitement out of their system revenge for what they didn't even know these people what are you talking about it's just revenge against society they feel disenfranchised against society my rear end they have had homes they have been cared for

they have been given three meals a day and education revenge for what but that's not the reality in their mind in their mind they're disenfranchised in their mind they have jobs they lose them and you notice they're supposedly going out there to look for jobs so they're not feeling very powerful they're feeling feeling like they can't keep, you know, they had the one job that they had. Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, wait, wait. I want to pick up on something you said. Now, no offense, Jason Oceans, and here in the studio, Ely and John, no offense to men in general, but let me circle back here and start.

To feel powerful. You know, I never at one time in my life have I ever wanted to feel powerful. I just want to work, do a good job, come home to the twins, cook a little red beans and rice, you know, watch a little Sherlock Holmes before we fall asleep. What a feel powerful. Who wants to feel powerful? But that is.

Why is it always men that want to feel powerful? Well, I guess because it has to do with that whole macho feeling of the power behind a gun. And the ability... Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Karen, start. Jackie Howard here in the studio has just given me a significant update. Jackie Howard, in all her intensive legal research,

has discovered that these two like to play war games in the woods. Jackie Howard, in all her intensive legal research, has discovered that these two like to play war games in the woods. Now, you know, when I was little, say 9 or 10, I would build forts out of pine straw, and we would throw pine cones and sycamore balls, as wrong as that is. But these two, how old are they? How old are they, EK? How old are these two?

18 and 19 years old. And they're still playing war games in the woods, if we are to believe Jackie Howard anyway. What does that say? Karen, they're still playing war games in the woods? Running through the woods with fake guns? And I think they also like to play war games online. So they really are excited about the idea of being able to shoot a gun and go through the motions of capturing somebody or finding their target. And even though they're 18 and 19 years old, they are still two boys who get a charge out of doing that.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A clearer and darker picture is emerging of a murder suspect at the center of a cross-country manhunt. These photos of Briar Smigelski sent to CBC by a fellow online gamer show the teen dressed in camo with a Nazi symbol on display. He's a much different image than the boy people here knew in person. He was a nice kid, very quiet. Lisa Lucas lives a few doors down from Smigelski's grandmother, where he often stayed as a child. Her son Ryland became quick friends with Smigelski. The two played together for years, but eventually grew apart.

Ryland just said he just gave off a weird kind of a vibe. He just, after a while, just started making people feel uncomfortable. She says her son became concerned with Smigelski's love for violent video games. He would mention things about like if this was real, you know, like when they're playing video games, like could you imagine if this was real kind of a thing? So and he'd get a little too excited about it, I guess. You were hearing from our friends at the CBC, that was Tonya Fletcher. Who are these guys and who are these victims? Let's see. I'm trying to even think back. At age 23, I just got out of law school. I think I was still a clerk for a judge. I was still just a little baby. This Chyna Dee is just

23 years old of North Carolina. Have you seen her? She's just absolutely beautiful. And the boyfriend looks like a young Fabio. Do you guys remember him? He, I think, posed for the front of romance novels with, yeah, yeah, yeah. The one bald person in the studio right now was brushing his hair back. Yeah, Fabio with the long, beautiful blonde hair, all macho and all that, handsome. That's what this guy looks like to me, except a young version. These two had this picture-perfect romance going. His dad is a cop. She's a North Carolina beauty. They're going on the trip of a lifetime before they settle down for real jobs, traveling the country across in a van, and suddenly their bodies found dead on the side of the road. Just gunned down and left there on the side of the road with cars whizzing by.

Who did this? Right now, cops honing in on a very rural area. We believe an arrest is imminent with Kim, Cod and Briar Shemigelsky. What happened? Joining me right now, a forensic expert, and I have worked with her many times, and she is the consummate expert. Also, the founder of Bare Bones Consulting with me right now, Karen Smith. Karen, first of all, let me just start with an elementary question. Tell me about the primary crime scene where the two bodies, the young North Carolina girl, Chyna Deese, and her boyfriend,

24, the cop's son, are found. Then I'll move to a potential third victim, the college professor, Leonard Dyke. Well, the first scene is going to be where their van was found on the side of the road. There were reports that one of the back windows was broken. I don't know if that means blown out by a bullet, or I don't know if that means broken because it had been broken before. They're going to be looking at the positions of the bodies. How were they positioned on the side of the road? Had they been executed? Had this been completed at a distance? Was it a drive-by?

They're going to look at the van. What was wrong with it? How was it broken down? Was this a rural road where there are a lot of people that pass by? They're going to be asking people who may have witnessed anything to come forward. You look at the bullets, you look at the ballistics, Nancy. We've talked about this ad nauseum before. The ballistics are going to tell a story. Maybe not the story, but a story. What type of gun was it? Was it a rifle? Was it a handgun? Is there any stippling or burned and unburned gunpowder on the body showing a close contact or close range gunshot? All of those forensics are going to come forward and tell a story, but it doesn't give us the name and address of a suspect. It just tells us the ballistics and what may have happened at that scene. So they really have their work cut out for them. Tell me how you believe, Karen Smith,

Bare Bones Consulting, that the two bodies of China Deese and Lucas Fowler can be connected to that of the college professor, Leonard Dyke. Well, at this point, we're looking at ballistics. If Leonard Dyke was shot and from reports says that he was, they're going to look to be critical in the turning point. It also gives a traveling pattern of the people who may have committed these crimes, which direction they were going, where they may have been headed. And at this point, I'm really just hoping that the Royal Canadian Mounted Police can use all of their resources and find these guys. They need to be off the street. Take a listen to our friend, CBS reporter Janet Shumalin. Police say they found a truck on fire that belonged to the Canadian teen suspects about a mile from the man's body. We believe that they're likely continuing to travel.

These are newly released recent photos of the teen suspects, last seen driving a 2011 Silver Toyota RAV4. Police believe they've left British Columbia and maybe in Manitoba, thousands of miles away. Investigators won't say what evidence connects the teens to their killings. For Lucas Fowler's father, the loss is unimaginable. As a police officer, you work with families all the time, but nothing prepares me.

Nothing prepares my family for what we are going through now. A father's heartbreak. And so the families of these teens say they haven't seen them for several days, and they believe the teenagers were out on the road looking for work. Meanwhile, the families of this young couple, the American and that Australian, and the father you saw just there, are asking this question about motive. What could have sparked what seems to be a random murder? Of course, the state never has to prove motive. Isn't that right, Jason? Ocean's the state, i.e., for instance, me trying a case.

I don't have to climb into these guys' heads and figure out why did they do it? Why? What were they thinking? What were they tired of playing Minecraft in their mommy's basement? I don't know. Are they tired of running through the woods with an airsoft? I don't know. And I don't have to know. I just have to know I've got the right person and the right jurisdiction and the right victims and a general time span. That's what I need to know. And I need to be able to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. So motive, schmotive. But I will say, Jason, I am curious. Don't you

think juries want to, just out of curiosity, know a motive? They do, Nancy. I mean, and as I listen to you speak, once a prosecutor, always a prosecutor. And certainly motive doesn't matter. It's just part of the story, as you say. Juries like to hear that. These are lay people who want to know, well, what happened? How did these, you know, 18, 19 year old teenagers, quote unquote, in a bad way, baby faced killers, how did they get to this point? So, you know, part of that is the background, their family background. One of them is that comes from, you know, a ruptured family in terms of parents divorced and contentious going on for years. Not that that's any excuse. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Please, please stop.

Please stop, Jason. Jason, Jason, Jason. Are you seriously saying because the parents split up? No, that's not. Because the parents split up. I'm not attributing that to you. That's why they went on a murder spree? No, I'm not saying that.

Because it sounds like you just did. Nancy, I'm not. I'm just saying that's a part of your question as to what is motive. Didn't I hear you say ruptured family? Was that not you? That must have been Jackie Howard here in the studio, because I know I heard somebody say ruptured family. You've got to give me a little bit better than that. That's the thing.

You're looking for motive. I mean, we're all supposing what it might be, but one's reclusive and recalcitrant in his life. The other one has got anger issues and more dominant, as Karen Stark said, and here they're off on their adventure. Unfortunately, with horrible and deadly consequences. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. So his influences haven't been good. His influences have been YouTube and video games. They never got in trouble with the law. They never got into fights. You know, they were just hanging out and having a good time. They weren't scrappers. They weren't cursors.

You know, they didn't go play Mr. Man like Macho. No, they were just everyday, regular kids. But both of them have to have a lot of pain inside. Both of them. They had told me that the Walmart jobs just weren't cutting it. They were going to go to Alberta and make some proper money. I believe that's what they were going to do, and I was absolutely flabbergasted to learn that two days later,

and I found this out from the paper, that they were up in the Yukon. Initially, it looked like they were victims as well, right? Initially. And it's really tough for me to see in the paper today photos of them alive and well in Saskatchewan. So I know they're not lost in the woods. You are hearing the father of Briar Smigelski speaking. Did I just hear him say they're victims as well? I've got three dead bodies I'm trying to connect right now.

And apparently they are absolutely connected to at least two of them. Apparently on a killing spree, everyday regular kids, they're victims as well. Blaming YouTube and online for influencing them. Hey, there's something more than YouTube and playing games online that set these two off. Again, it doesn't matter what set them off. What matters is apprehending these two. Cam McCloy, Brescia, and McGelsky, now believed to have murdered three people. Question straight out to Ellen Kaloran, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter.

Could they be getting help from someone? They've been on the run two weeks. Well, yes, Nancy, and there's a lot of questions about how they've been able to evade police and what you accurately described as a wild goose chase. So police did think there was a possibility that someone perhaps inadvertently had helped them relocate from Gillom, Manitoba, which is where they were for several days without any sightings. They have since been spotted about 56 miles away in a remote area. But just because it's only 56 miles away doesn't mean it's easy to get to. This is very rough terrain. It would take several hours to drive. So yes,

police do suspect it's possible that someone is helping them either not knowing who they are and what they're what they're why they're the subject of a manhunt or perhaps as one force said they're not friendly to police and maybe the suspects are paying them wait stop stop stop you're feeding into the monster they are not kids there are three dead bodies okay just hold on hold on okay think of china d's right you're right you're right her body getting cold you're right yeah They're not kids. There are three dead bodies. Okay. Just hold on. Hold on, Ike. Think of China Dees. Right. You're right. You're right.

Her body getting cold. You're right. Yeah. Lying on the side of the road, dead from a series of gunshot wounds, most likely at close range, and laying there till her body gets cold with cars whizzing by out in the middle of nowhere. Now, did I hear you say the word kids? Yes.

They are not kids. They're both adults, they have, one of them at least has a history of making very violent comments going back to when he was in the seventh grade. Explain that to me. What are you talking about? A classmate of his who, a female classmate who was with him in the seventh grade said that even all the way back then, he would make comments about killing other students and then killing himself. Which one was that? That's Breyer Schmigalski. We know a lot more about him than we do about Kamikaze.

What do we know about him? We know that he was very active on video gaming sites. So was the other one. His father had spoken out a lot about how he was purportedly very damaged by a divorce that happened when he was only five years old. We know that his father bought him an air street, a toy gun, basically, that kind of looks like a real gun, and that he would play in the woods with those. We know that he made comments online on these gaming platforms saying that he was sympathetic to Nazis. We know that he sent a photo to another gamer of Nazi paraphernalia. We know that he brought his father. Hold on just a second. What is this to Karen Smith, forensics expert,

founder of Beer Bones Consulting? What are the airsoft rifles? Explain that. Basically, it's just a lookalike, Nancy. You use a canister of air to propel a pellet through the barrel rather than a bullet. Listen, this is not a toy, okay? This can hurt people. It is not something to be taken lightly. And when you have a young man, a young killer that has been trained with this lookalike gun, it takes the, you know, ask Karen Stark about this. It takes the reality out of their brain and it makes them fixate on something more real, something that they want to do. Wait, there's something I don't understand here. So they have this airsoft rifle, which is basically like, I guess, a paintball rifle.

And hey, those things hurt, by the way. But this is they were killed in Canada. Don't they have very strict gun control in Canada to Karen Smith? They do. But that doesn't prevent straw purchases, Nancy. You know that as well as I do. Well, all I know is every time I go to Canada to tape a Hallmark movie, the first thing the cab driver says is something about the American government and gun control. That's why I'm curious.

But that's neither here nor there. The investigators have described the terrain that they are scouring as extremely rough. And at this point, what are the chances the accused killers will be captured alive, E.K.? Honestly, Nancy, I thought we were all going to wake up to the news this morning that they had been captured because they have been spotted in a remote area. We don't know what kind of tactical equipment they have, but we know that even trained police officers are facing a lot of challenges with this terrain. It's very remote. There's polar bears. There's black bears. It's not an easy area to canvas. So it's really remarkable that these suspects are still out

there. And I don't think that they will be for much longer. And I don't think police do either. And one of the suspect's father said the same thing. Well, you know, to Karen Stark, psychologist joining me out of Manhattan, you can find her at karenstark.com. We also know, based on newly released images of the two, they have an obsession with Nazism. Now, what does that tell you about their mindset, Karen Stark? Well, their mindset is evil. I mean, what they are admiring that the killing machine of the Nazis and the fact that they were looking for a superior race. So as I said, they're disenfranchised

for whatever reason, they are really wanting to go out there and have this power of just killing people and being able. And I think they were fueled also by the fact that they did one killing and then they could go ahead and do another. And they were encouraging each other, which is not unusual. One dominant, one less so, but obsessed with this idea of being able to take over. And they're going to admire anything

that's evil, that is against society, the benefit of society, and has to do with control. The father of Briar Smigelski says this. A normal child doesn't travel across the country killing people. A child in some very serious pain does. Mounties are going to shoot first and ask questions later. Basically, he's going to be dead today or tomorrow. I know that. I would say... Rest in peace, Brian. I love you. I'm so sorry all this had to happen.

I'm so sorry that I couldn't rescue you. Oh, my stars, that's just breaking my heart. And yes, I know that's the father of one of the alleged killers, Bryce Smigalski, but he is still a dad and he still loves his son no matter what. What a nightmare. We wait as justice unfolds. Remember, if you see these two, do not approach them. Please call 911. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.