Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Barbie doll left on tot-girl's grave offers clue in rape, murder of 6-year-old girl

Episode Date: March 6, 2019

Whoever left a vintage Barbie doll on the grave of a little girl raped and murdered in 1995 may have provided a key piece of evidence to solve the cold case: DNA. Utah investigators are asking for public help in identifying the person who placed the doll on the grave of Rosie Tapia, who was just six when she died. “Two possible persons of interest in the case have been identified who had some fixation with Barbies,” the Utah Cold Case Coalition said in a news release. “But before a costly analysis is performed on the DNA, the coalition is asking whether someone knows who placed the doll on Rosie’s grave.” She was abducted from the bedroom of her Salt Lake City home. Her remains were discovered “several hours later in a canal off the Jordan River.” Nancy Grace looks at the investigation with Cold Case Research Institute Director Sheryl McCollum, Atlanta criminal lawyer Darryl Cohen, psycho analyst Dr Bethany Marshall, and reporter John Lemley. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I'm hoping the Lord will let me live until we find the person who took my daughter. Rosie Tapia was six years old when she was kidnapped and sexually assaulted. Her body was found several hours later in a canal off the Jordan River. A few days after Rosie's passing there was items that were left on her graveside so I just gathered them up and took them home. One of those items was a Barbie on her grave side. Um, so up and took him home. One a Barbie doll. Coalition have reasons to believe t

clue but did not share wh a sweetheart's Barbie tha in 1994. They did say tha of interest have been iden fixation with Barbies. Who left a vintage Barbie doll on a six-year-old little girl's grave? An unsolved attack and murder. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

First of all, before I go to John Limley, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, also with me, Dr. Bethany Marshall and director of the Cold Case Research Institute, Cheryl McCollum, to Daryl Cohen, veteran criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor. Daryl, why can't some criminals help themselves? Who else would go and leave a Barbie doll on this baby's grave, a little girl that was raped and murdered, and then some pervy dude shows up and puts a Barbie doll on her grave? What's with your clients, Daryl Cohen? I mean, it's just like going back to look at the scene of the crime or taunting a victim with hang-up calls on the phone after you attack them. Somebody goes back to her grave. To me, it's a desecration, Daryl. Well, I agree.

But, Nancy, let me be very clear. It's not my client, and I don't like representing people like that. But having said that, and Bethany is going to be much better. Oh, wait. I'm sorry. You've never represented a murder i didn't say that i don't like representing people like that i clearly have represented people charged with murder some are actually guilty some are not but why would they go back they go back

because they're taunting they have some and there's something in their psyche this is really want to get caught and they're taunting the public. They're taunting law enforcement, trying to show that I am actually smarter than they are. I'm bigger than they are, and they'll never catch me. But they sort of want to be caught regardless, because they love the publicity. These are sick people. Well, another thing, Daryl, when a defendant, in this case, a child predator and killer, does that, it's like a fixation. And I'm going to need to shrink on this, Dr. Bethany Marshall. But Daryl Cohen, the evidence that you can obtain from the Barbie doll, I know it sounds crazy, but it's a vintage Barbie doll.

Who has one of those? I mean, my sister had some, but when I was little, I cut all their heads off. That was a scene. Let me tell you that when she came home and all the heads were gone. But Daryl Cohen, who has a vintage Barbie, who would know where the grave is, who would go to the grave and then keep it a secret. Like if this was a little friend from a family that knew her, they would have told the victim's family, oh, Susie wants to go and put her doll on Rosie's grave. You know, when people leave items, sentimental items at grave sites, but this was not someone the family knew, Daryl. No, it sounds to me very much like someone who's taunting, someone who's going to leave his or her DNA on that Barbie doll, someone that's giving a clue,

even if it's designed to throw people off. But absolutely, you're right. A vintage Barbie doll, number one, is probably expensive. Number two, it's showing that I know what's going on and you, law enforcement, are a bunch of idiots. But they're going to find, in all likelihood, that law enforcement's ultimately going to find them. Low kick. You know what it reminds me a little bit of? To Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute,

you know in BTK, buy, torture, and kill, he would dress dolls up like his victims. Do you remember that, Cheryl? Yeah, I do indeed. And it's funny you said that because let me tell you what I noticed about this Barbie doll. There's an injury at her neck. There's a little hole right at her neck and the foot of Barbie doll looks like something had chewed on it in a way. The Barbie is clean. The bows are still in the hair, so it's not like this doll had been out in the weather or found in the yard after somebody was playing with it and discarded it. It looked like it was straight out of the box, new, except for those two things that stuck out to me. The other thing that we need to keep in mind, Nancy, this was not a vintage Barbie.

The Barbie doll was found in 2005, days after her funeral. Her mama found it. The Barbie was done in I think 1994, they said. So it was a new doll. So it's vintage now, but at the time

it was a new doll. That's significant. That's a significant fact. Who left a Barbie doll on Rosie Tapia's grave? It is for me, too. That's the big question. Investigators are begging the public for information after little six-year-old Rosie was found raped and murdered. Utah Cold Case Coalition has arranged for DNA evidence to be gathered from the doll.

That doll found on Rosie's grave at Salt Lake City Cemetery after her burial. But back to the crime itself. Let's go all the way back to August 13 that year. Somebody removed a screen from the window on Rosie's family ground floor apartment and took Rosie away. Her body found in a canal off the Jordan River. To John Limley, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, let's go back to the beginning. What happened? Nancy,

August 13th was a Sunday and it was in the wee hours of the morning that Louine Tapia went into her children's bedrooms to make sure they were all tucked in and sleeping soundly. Louine first checked her twins, both boys, both sons were sound asleep in their beds. So she heads to her daughter Rosie's room. At first, Louine thinks her eyes are playing tricks on her, but she soon realizes that no, her daughter is not in her bed. Before Louine even has a chance to think of much more logical explanations, like she's gone to the bathroom or snuck downstairs, she notices a couple of things that make matters much, much worse. Rosie's curtains are pulled back, the blinds are tossed to the side, and the window is wide open.

Her daughter is gone, completely vanished. Daryl, you heard the description of the room. What does that tell you about the killer? Well, it tells me that the killer knew that this child was in there. It tells me the killer had a previous history of at least viewing the child, whether it was a male or a female. It tells me they knew when to come in because the child would be sleeping, the family would be basically asleep, and everything would be quiet. It would be very easy to sneak in, grab this child and go. Tell me one more time, John Limley, a crime online investigative reporter where this and all other breaking crime and justice news can be found. John Limley, tell me again about the condition of the room. Of course, most importantly, Rosie is not in her bed. She's gone. The curtains are pulled back. The blinds are tossed to the side

and the window is left completely open. To Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute. Cheryl, that tells me a lot. What about you? Absolutely. Nancy, this whole scene should tell you a lot. The fact that the child was killed so quickly tells you a lot. We all know in child A NEW LEAD IN THE ROSIE TAPIA MURDER. FOR 23 YEARS HER MURDER REMAINS UNSOLVED. THE 6-YEAR-OLD WAS TAKEN FROM HER HOME, HER BODY LATER FOUND NEAR A CANAL IN SAUL LAKE CITY.

BUT ABC 4 NEWS HAS LEARNED OF A TEN-YEAR-OLD WHO WAS KILLED IN A FIREFIGHT. THE FACT THAT THE CHILD WAS KILLED SO QUICKLY TELLS YOU A LOT. WE ALL KNOW IN CHILD

ABDUCTION CASES WHEN THE CHILD IS KILLED WITHIN THREE HOURS IT'S NORMALLY A STRANGER AND IT'S NORMALLY SOMEBODY THAT WILL ATTACK AND KILL AGAIN. A NEW LEAD IN THE ROSIE TAPIA MURDER.

FOR 23 YEARS HER MURDER REMAINS UNSOLVED. THE 6-YEAR-OLD WAS TAKEN FROM HER HOME, HER BODY LATER FOUND NEAR A CANAL IN SAUL LAKE CITY. BUT ABC 4'S NEWS HAS LEARNED OF A TEN-YEAR-OLD

WHO WAS KILLED IN A FIREFIGHT. THE CHILD WAS KILLED IN A FIREFIGHT. THE CHILD WAS KILLED IN A FIREFIGHT. THE CHILD WAS KILLED IN A FIREFIGHT. THE CHILD WAS KILLED IN A FIREFIGHT. THE CHILDAMILIAR WITH THEIR FAMILY. THEIR FAMILY IS FAMILIAR WITH THEIR FAMILY. THEIR FAMILY IS FAMILIAR WITH THEIR FAMILY. FOR 23 YEARS, HER MURDER REMAINS UNSOLVED.

THE 6-YEAR-OLD WAS TAKEN FROM HER HOME. HER BODY LATER FOUND NEAR A CANAL IN SALT LAKE CITY. BUT ABC 4'S NEWS HAS LEARNED OF A TIP THAT COULD HELP BRING THE FAMILY JUSTICE AFTER MORE THAN TWO DECADES.

BEHIND EVERY CRIME, THERE'S A STORY AND THE TRUTH MATTERS. HERE'S ABC 4 SENIOR CRIME AND PUNISHMENT CORRESPONDENT MARCOS ORTIZ WITH THE JUSTICE FILE. THE MAN WHO WANTS TO REMAIN ANONYMOUS IS STANDING OUTSIDE HIS HOME. HE SAW A WHITE PICKUP TRUCK PARKED NEAR THE BRIDGE BY THE CANAL LEAVE. THE MAN WHO WANTS TO REMAIN

ANONYMOUS IS STANDING OUTSIDE HIS HOME. THE MAN WHO WANTS TO REMAIN ANONYMOUS IS STANDING OUTSIDE HIS HOME. HE SAW A WHITE PICKUP TRUCK PARK NEAR THE BRIDGE BY THE CANAL LEAVE.

THE MAN WHO WANTS TO REMAIN ANONYMOUS IS STANDING OUTSIDE HIS HOME. THE MAN WHO WANTS TO REMAIN IN THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE

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STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE STREETS OF THE denim pants, but from about the knees down, they were dark, dark colored. And from the knees up,

they weren't that dark. The man says the teen came in his direction and got within three feet of him. That's when he looked down at the sidewalk. And when he come walking by me, the sidewalk was wet. But when he walked by me, I realized his pants were wet. That is highly significant. What happened to six-year-old Rosie, taken out of her home, horrifically assaulted her body, her tiny body found in a nearby canal? It's very significant that a person was seen, a man was seen nearby, and his clothes were wet. To John Limley, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, what about it? What

do we know about this tip? The tip that we were just hearing from our friends at KTVX-TV, it was Marcos Ortiz, speaking with a man who insisted he remain anonymous. But the day baby Rosie goes missing, he sees a white pickup truck parked near the bridge by that very same canal there in Salt Lake City. He sees the man in the pickup leaving. And as he did that, a guy walked by and the guy's pants were soaked. John Limley, I feel like this case has gotten stalled somehow. Who's working the case? There is a new group called the Utah Cold Case Coalition. They've held a press conference recently, and they're the ones that share the news about that Barbie doll

left at the grave site. The coalition, by the way, made up of attorneys, private investigators, public relations professionals, and other businesses. All of them are working for free. Representatives from the group say that two possible persons of interest have been identified who had some fixation with Barbies. That doll, again, a sweetheart Barbie,

manufactured in 1994. A new cutting-edge DNA extraction method is being used on the doll to try to identify who it came from. Now, the group plans to wait at least four to six weeks to move forward with the analysis because they are working very closely and sort of taking the

lead from police on the investigation. Does a Barbie doll, sweetheart edition, left on a grave of six-year-old little rape and murder victim shed new light on a cold case? To Dr. Bethany Marshall, LA Psychoanalyst, a fixation on Barbie dolls? i didn't know that such a thing existed now i know that there's a guy who has had multiple plastic surgeries i'm talking 30 40 or more to make himself look like the ken doll and there's a woman who has had a number of surgeries to make herself look like the barbie doll the classic Barbie. But what is that? As there's got to be a name for it when you're obsessed with Barbie dolls. Well, Nancy, I actually think it's pretty straightforward. Pedophiles who are preoccupied

with children are preoccupied with the things of childhood, right? So not only is whoever abducted poor little Rosie, was he preoccupied with her, but probably anything that reminded him of childhood, including dolls. Who plays with Barbie dolls? Little girls. Who did he abduct? A little girl. This, you know, what creeps me out most about this? I was thinking about Jeffrey Dahmer, who was fixated on his victims even after they were dead. Remember, he was fixated on them even after they were in a vat of acid, in a pot of boiling water. The fixation did not die. I once had a patient who was molested by a priest. The priest started when he was six or seven years old. It continued throughout adolescence. My patient finally stood up to the priest when he was 26 years old. The priest still stalked and harassed him. It wasn't until

the priest died that he finally stopped thinking about my patient. So these preoccupations can go on forever and in very strange and bizarre ways. So I would, in terms of trying to crack this case, I would look at anybody in the community who has a preoccupation on or a fixation with a child and with the things of childhood. And I think that will provide the richest clues. Well, believe it or not, to Cheryl McCollum, obsession with Barbies is not as uncommon as I thought it was before I started working this case. There's one 33-year-old male who has very minimalist decor in his home, except for the 3 3 000 dolls he has up but that guy has a professional interest in toys because he's a consumer trend director of strategy okay his barbie collection began when he was just 13 and he bought the quote great shape Barbie in a turquoise

spandex gym outfit with striped leg warmers I don't know if you recall that one I only had one Barbie I think I had a midge I also killed them they didn't keep their heads very long I just didn't play with dolls that much. I don't know what that says. I'm afraid to actually ask Dr. Bethany. So I'll just let that sleeping dog lie. But Cheryl McCollum, the obsession with Barbies, which I thought was extremely obscure, apparently there's more of them out there than I knew about, Cheryl.

I can't agree with Dr. Marshall anymore. She is absolutely on the money. And I'm going Cheryl. I can't agree with Dr. Marshall anymore. She is absolutely on the money and I'm going to disagree with Mr. Cohen on something. Predators, sexual predators of children go back to the crime scene to relive those memories. They enjoy it. Just like me and you may drive past the old high school and reminisce about the old stadium and things like that. I never do that. I never do that.

Ever. Occasionally when we're in Macon, we drive by my old high school. The twins go, isn't that where you went to my high school? I'm like, yeah, it was awesome. And I keep going. I mean, I know I don't do that that much. And what does that mean? Dr.

Bethany, while I've got a shrink, I just don't think back on it that much. Well, it depends on whether or not you were fond of those memories. Right. I think they were great memories. I don't have bad memories. I'm just kind of like busy right now. You have a rich, full life. You do not need to go backwards in time.

Oh, is that what you call it? To create meaning. But, you know But Cheryl's correct. I think that it's not that this perpetrator is taunting the police. He's still fixated on this little girl and he is reliving the crime. This was his glory day.

This was the moment of glory where he actually broke into her room, snatched her and had his way with her. And in the absence of having access to more victims, he's going to keep thinking about it, fantasizing about it. It's probably a part of a masturbatory routine. He probably has pictures of pornography on his computer. This is how this man or woman, but most likely man, lives his life in a fantasy world.

Guys, we are talking about a six-year-old little girl, Rosie Tapia, taken out of her home, her room in disarray. Nobody heard anything. That is not uncommon. And as Cheryl McCollum was stating earlier, if it's a stranger on child abduction, typically over 70% of the time that child is dead in the first three hours. That stat jumps up into the 80s at the end of 24 hours. Rosie was found dead, having been raped. Her body just thrown into a canal, a body of water. We want answers. We now learn that someone places a Barbie doll on her grave. I want to know who. Hi, Nancy Grace here. Have you ever Googled yourself, your neighbors, somebody at work, a crush?

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you care for, your children, consider using Truthfinder. What you find may astound you. Go to truthfinder.com forward slash Nancy right away to start searching. Truthfinder.com forward slash Nancy. Truthfinder.com forward slash Nancy. Find the truth. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Welcome to the home of Stanley Collarite, whose collection of more than 2,000 Barbie dolls fills up four whole rooms. Stanley, also known as the Barbie Man, has been building his incredible collection for 16 years,

and now it's thought to be worth a staggering $80,000. Hi, I'm Stanley Coleright, and welcome to my Barbie collection. Stanley scours websites and yard sales to build his collection, spending up to $30,000 per year. This is where all the dolls are held in the wonderful museum.

There's 2,000 Barbies in this this room alone this is the very first barbie that i purchased is the 1992 happy holiday barbie you are hearing quote i'm addicted to barbie on barcroft tv on youtube now let me make clear that that guy showing us a tour of his Barbie mansion is in no way connected to the Rosy Topia murder. But what I'm telling you is that there is a fixation on Barbies. You don't believe me? Listen to this. People first come to my place. They just start Snapchatting.

They just go, oh my God, can I take a picture? My name is Azusa. I'm 35 years old. I'm obsessed with Barbie. I could go on and on and on with people obsessed with Barbies. To Dr. Bethany Marshall, LA psychoanalyst, boy, do I need to shrink. I mean, to me, that just sounds like people with too much time on their hands. But I guess the way I'm obsessed with my twins, my children, obsessed with, you know, are their clothes ironed? Is their room clean? Have they finished their homework? Are they handing this assignment in on time? Have they had five servings of fruit and vegetables today? Are they getting enough sleep?

Have they had this physical checkup? Blah, blah, blah. What about piano? What about band? What about, I mean, my head's about to blow up. So some would call that an obsession. I guess everybody has something dear to their heart. So I'm not knocking it.

When they say they have identified two people obsessed with Barbies, I mean, clearly, a lot of people are obsessed with Barbies. I just still, I keep asking you, Bethany, and you're not really giving me a satisfactory answer. What is it when people are obsessed with dolls? I would not use the word obsession. I would use the word fetish. The dolls are fetishized. So when somebody has a fetish, like an interest in like a foot, a whip, a chain, a doll, something

that other than a full human relationship, it's because that doll, that foot, that object of some emotional or sexual preoccupation cannot talk back, cannot put you down, cannot degrade you. You have complete control, power, and dominion over that object. A story comes to mind recently of a woman I heard in the news who was preoccupied with collecting dolls of all sorts, but she alienated her own adult daughter because she was uninterested in her daughter. So she was more interested in the things over whom, over which she could have control and wouldn't talk back to her than a real human being, her own child who had her own personality. And then there was a story trending on Twitter a couple months ago, a Japanese man who fell in love with a hologram. And so it was this little girl in a glass bubble, a hologram, who looked like a Barbie doll.

She had a nipped in waist, big breasts, you know, pigtails, big blonde hair. And he had a whole wedding and he carried this little hologram in a glass bubble down the aisle. And he called himself that he had what's called digisexualhuman, cannot stand up to them, cannot talk back, cannot make them feel bad about themselves, and something over which they have complete power and control. Question. It is possible that a grown adult can be obsessed with dolls for many reasons it could be a hobby like you know repairing them restoring them repainting their features another reason history collectors of dolls love history

and historic dolls fashion sewing and costuming nostalgia therapeutic value i understand dolls can soothe psychological needs or voids people decorate with dolls hoarders um celebrity worship for instance if the doll is a celebrity doll i don't see any of those fitting this scenario ch Cheryl McCollum. We've got to retrace that crime scene, Cheryl. Yes, this particular Barbie, Nancy, is not what you're describing. It's not one of the Barbies that had a Bob Mackie outfit on. It's not a holiday Barbie.

This is not a collector's item. There were other items left at the crime scene along with this Barbie, whether it was clothing or other toys or candy. We don't know, but that might be also a hint. I think we're getting down a rabbit hole with this Barbie. I don't think she holds all the key. Everybody thinks they do. If this Barbie potentially had the killer's DNA, the police would be using the MVAT on that doll. The police aren't. And even this group says we're going to wait six weeks because the test is so expensive.

This is not going to change this case, I don't believe. People visit. Okay, let's shift away from that. Let's shift off Barbie and back onto the crime scene. Back to John Lindley, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Is it true that her brother and sister slept in the same room with her? And what time do we think the kidnap occurred? The kidnapping we think took place between 1 a.m. and 4 a.m. on Sunday, August 13th of that year. It's interesting to note that the night before,

this is August 12th, sometime between 7 and 8 p.m., 18-year-old Amelia Tapia looks out her family's apartment window and sees a man carrying her little sister, Rosie. Amelia runs right out, opens the door, grabs Rosie. The man is wearing sunglasses and a hat. He tells Amelia that Rosie had been hurt while playing on the slide, maybe even kicked in the back. Amelia says, thank you, shuts the door and immediately starts checking Rosie out. Amelia lifts Rosie's shirt, asks where she's been hurt. Rosie says, I didn't get hurt. It dawns on Amelia that the man actually called Rosie by name. So she asked Rosie, how in the world did this man know who she was? And she said, I don't know. A copy of children went to bed between 9 and 9.30, according to their mother that night. And again, sometime between 1 and 4 a.m., someone abducted Rosie through that bedroom window.

I mean, that can't be just a coincidence, Cheryl McCollum. It's got to be the same guy. Now we're on to something. That's what I'm talking about. Not only does it fit the same description, but her brother, the killer, spoke to him and told him, go back to bed. And the brother later did the composite drawing of the person that is the same look of the person the mother spoke to. Not only did the person know the child's name, he knew where she lived, and he was hanging out at a playground. If that doesn't sound like a pedophile, I don't know what does.

Take a listen to our friends at KTVX-TV. It's been hard these 21 years. It's been really hard. Now, Salt Lake Police learned of a possible lead reviewing old notes. They've also found new information and are seeking help in locating three men that may or may not be connected to the crime. AND ARE SEEKING HELP IN LOCATING THREE MEN THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE CONNECTED TO THE CRIME. WE HAVE GOT A STATEMENT OF A SUSPICIOUS INDIVIDUAL THAT ACTUALLY WAS SEEN BY OUR WITNESS ON ONE OF THE LOCAL TELEVISION CHANNEL STATIONS

BEING INTERVIEWED. THEY'RE NOW REQUESTING ALL NEWS MEDIA VIDEO OF THAT TIME PERIOD TO SHOW THEIR WITNESS. POLICE ALSO WANT TO TALK TO AN AFRICAN AMERICAN MAN WHO POLICE SAY WAS IN THE CRIME. THE CRIME IS A TRIP TO THE

HOSPITAL IN THE CITY OF BOSTON. POLICE SAY THEY ARE NOT REQUESTING ANY INFORMATION. THEY ARE REQUESTING A SIGNIFICANT CALL TO THE HOSPITAL. THEY ARE REQUESTING A SIGNIFICANT CALL TO THE HOSPITAL. THEY ARE REQUESTING A SIGNIFDIA VIDEO OF THAT TIME PERIOD TO SHOW THEIR WITNESS. POLICE ALSO WANT TO TALK TO AN AFRICAN AMERICAN MAN WHO POLICE SAY WAS THROWING GARBAGE OUT AT THREE IN THE MORNING. THE FAMILY HIRED A PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR WHO NOW GAVE POLICE THE NAME OF A PERSON WHO

THEY CLAIM RESEMBLES THE COMPOSITE RELEASED YEARS AGO. THAT ONE AND THE PICTURE THAT THEY HAVE OF THIS GUY, THEY LOOK FAMILIAR. SO THAT'S WHY IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT. IT'S A GOOD THING. THE FAMILY HAS HAD THEIR HOPES DASHED BEFORE WHENEVER THERE'S A NEW DEVELOPMENT. BUT ROSIE'S MOM SAYS SHE'S

WILLING TO WRITE IT OUT. SO IT DOES UPSET ME SOMETIMES BECAUSE I WANT HER CASE SOLVED AND I'M HOPING ONE DAY THIS WILL BE SET. THE FAMILY HAS HAD THEIR HOPES DASHED BEFORE WHENEVER THERE'S A NEW DEVELOPMENT.

BUT ROSIE'S MOM SAYS SHE'S WILLING TO WRITE IT OUT. SO IT DOES UPSET ME SOMETIMES BECAUSE I WANT HER CASE SOLVED AND I'M HOPING ONE DAY THIS WILL BE SET. THE FAMILY HAS HAD THEIR HOPES DASHED BEFORE WHENEVER

THERE'S A NEW DEVELOPMENT. BUT ROSIE'S MOM SAYS SHE'S WILLING TO WRITE IT OUT. SO IT DOES UPSET ME SOMETIMES BECAUSE I WANT HER CASE SOLVED AND I'M HOPING ONE DAY THIS WILL BE SET. out. So it does upset me sometimes because I want her case solved and I'm hoping one day this will be solved. They're following this up with additional statements and interviews of the victims and also witnesses because it's becoming a more larger investigation than maybe it was initially. One of the avenues under investigation reports that a man was seen hanging around the apartment playground, a man who carried Rosie home Saturday after she fell off the slide. She said that guy was sitting on one of the benches just watching the kids.

And why would a guy just watch kids if he didn't have no kids? He's probably seeing who he's going to hit next. You are hearing our friends at KSL TV. Why would a guy just be sitting on a bench watching children if they weren't one of his children? It reminds me, Dr. Bethany, there's a whole world out there I knew nothing about until I had the twins.

The subculture of play dates and play activities and play spots. For instance, when I would take the children to Lego before John David got too tall to get on the rides. You know, the kinds that are in malls. They don't let adults that are without children come in. They can't come in. You have to have a wristband and you have to be attached to children. And children can't go onto various rides or in playpens without the consent of their guardian with them. They don't let single, like, creepy males by themselves wander around in there.

And there's a reason for that. What this woman is saying is right. Why would a guy just be sitting on a bench watching children like a cat watching a mouse if they don't have a child out there playing? You know, unfortunately, Nancy, the types of protections you're talking about in like the mall or at Legoland, there are no such protections in public parks or at bus stops. And, you know, just as a fisherman goes to a stream, pedophiles go to parks, pedoph sitting on the bench, looking at the children, just like a hunter looks out at the Savannah, waiting for the child that can be picked off and separated from her family. He felt he had a special and unique relationship with her. He returned her back to the family, if I understand the story correctly, before then he took her, kidnapped her,

abducted her, and killed her. So his fantasy fixation with her was going on for a long time before he worked up the courage to commit the crime. You know, another issue, if you look at the statement, Cheryl, I don't know how this case got so twisted up. The brother, Robert, who was only four at the time when Rosie was abducted, raped, and murdered, says he saw a man he didn't know in their room that night. The man had a beard and told him to go back to sleep. Let's go back to the guy at the park first, though, Nancy. He invented a reason to pick the child up, carry her. So he's like hugging her, talking to her. Again, knows where she lives. So he has invented a reason because she was not hurt

to touch her, to caress her, to hold her. That's very disturbing. At that point, I think is when he made his mind up. He was going to kidnap her and her father. John Limley, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. It seems to me this whole case was screwed up and botched at the beginning. You've got a six-year-old little girl, Rosie, taken out of her room, raped and murdered, her body just thrown into a canal you've got a guy watching her on the playground that day actually picking her up as Cheryl said

you've got the little brother giving a description of a man in his room that night but they don't have anybody if she was raped there's got to be DNA. Have they run it back through the lab with heightened DNA technology? I mean, how did this case go so wrong, John Limley? Another example is the man who we heard at the outset of the program, who saw this young man with wet jeans. He went to the police station a few years later to describe this after he saw something on TV about what happened that night. And he was trying to help assist in creating a composite of the fellow's face that he saw. And the policeman kept giving him options that were too old. They were, in his words, hardened criminal looking faces. And he said, no,

this was a younger person. This was a teenager. And finally, he just got up and left because the police were having no part of that. They did not believe it was a teenager. Another thing, you do know, Cheryl McCollum, that the little brother, then four, was not asked to give a composite sketch until years later. Years. It's baffling, Nancy. I think the brother and this witness

need to get together and work on the composite with the same artist, not at the same time, but with the same artist. It's critical. And at this point, they need to take that composite and they need to make an age progression. What does he possibly look like now? Take a listen. We do know, according to this KSL TV reporter, that search dogs were brought into the area. But what did they find? Around 8 p.m., authorities brought in a team of bloodhounds to try and track down where Rosie went into the canal.

Police suspect the child knew her abductor, and right now there are a few suspects, but very little to go on. A neighbor who lived two floors above Rosie's window reported hearing a scream yesterday morning, and other neighbors say a strange man had brought the girl home from this playground Saturday night after she fell. i don't believe it's somebody we know um hopefully it's not because it'd be even more devastated to know that rosie's death comes one week after this woman's daughter was abducted and raped from the same apartment complex this woman says the property

managers told her to keep it quiet. No, right now our main concern is our security. If we're going to have to live here, I think there should be better, either better security or more security. Security is now everyone's concern, but for Rosie's family, the priority is getting the killer in custody. For somebody to do this, he had to have a sick mind, very sick mind to do something like this to a six-year-old girl. Well, John Limley, did you think about telling me another little girl had just been kidnapped and raped in the same apartment complex and building? That was one of the things that really should have maybe prevented this in the first place is heightened security after that first event

just several days before hey hey hey i'm not playing woulda coulda shoulda john limley cheryl mccollum that's the person that is the person you don't have two kidnaps and rapes of two little girls approximately the same age in the same apartment building within 10 days of each other and it not be the same person they just decided to kill rosie so they wouldn't leave behind a witness you and i have said before if we can get within 10 miles of a similar transaction we like it within a mile i can guarantee it's the same person within the same apartment complex. Good Lord Almighty, come on. There's no excuse in this person's face not being everywhere. Take a listen to our friends at KSL-TV. But we knew that it wasn't. We knew that Rosie wouldn't just climb out of the window at that late at night and just leave

and go throw herself in the river because we know she wouldn't do that. Rosie Tapia's sister and family never believed her drowning was accidental. Her mother discovered Rosie missing just before 6 a.m. Sunday. The window of her bedroom opened, screen removed. Now autopsy results reveal Rosie was probably sexually assaulted before drowning in the Jordan River Canal where her body was discovered by a jogger. It's just so sad because somebody could be so sick to take a baby from her room, from her security, and do such a rotten thing to her.

What are we supposed to do? Keep our kids locked up? Our windows locked? Our doors locked? Put bars on our window to keep our kids from being stolen and tossed in a river? If you have information, tip line is anonymous, 385-258-3313. That's 385-285-3313. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.