Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - BARDSTOWN: Young Mom disappears after midnight walk with boyfriend. Where is Crystal Rogers?

Episode Date: October 7, 2019

Five unsolved murders happened in Bardstown, Kentucky. Nancy Grace talks to the host and producer of a new podcast about those murders. Today focusing on the death of Crystal Rogers. Joining Nancy today are Jessica Noll and Shay McAlister. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Four days after she vanishes on July 8th, 2015, Nelson County Detective John Snow sits down with Crystal's boyfriend, Brooks Hauk. The conversation lasts for about 90 minutes. Brooks tells Detective Snow just what he told Crystal's mom, Sherry Ballard, about his last hours with Crystal. He and Crystal were at his family's farm, feeding the cows. You fed the cows, and then you come back out, and you walked the road, right?

The road that goes to... Yeah, after we come back, after walking through here. Brooks draws a makeshift map for the detective and shows where he says he and Crystal were on Friday, July 3, 2015. That's the driveway? Yeah, this driveway to the barn. Uh-huh, 2015. That's your driveway? Yeah, this driveway to the ballroom. Right. And then we walk out the road and we just walk back through there. Wearing a blue polo shirt and jeans,

Brooks sits casually, arm up on the table. He maintains his composure and appears unfazed by the detective's questions about the last time he saw Crystal on his mom's farm. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. You are hearing just a tiny portion of a fantastic new podcast. I'm totally hooked on it. Bardstown. B as in brother, A-R-D-S-T-O-W-N. Bard like Shakespeare the Bard. Bardstown podcast. and this is what it is about. It's all about the mysterious deaths that take place in a very small Kentucky town, considered the bourbon capital of the world, Bardstown, Kentucky. It's like so many small communities across our country, much like the one I grew up in,

except people are dropping like flies in Bardstown. With me right now, investigative journalist, podcast producer with Vault Studios, Jessica Knoll. With me, her partner, investigative reporter with WHAS in Louisville. They are responsible for Bardstown Podcast. You can find it at www.bardstownpodcast.com. We earlier spoke of the multiple murders that had taken place in and around Bardstown, Kentucky, an incredibly small town for so many dead bodies.

But today we're focusing on one in particular, and that is Crystal Rogers. Welcome, Jessica Knoll and Shea McAllister. To you, Jessica, tell me about Crystal Rogers. Who is she? Who was she? Well, Crystal Rogers is a 35-year-old mother of five. She had lived and grown up in Bardstown her whole life. And she was dating a man by the name of Brooks Houck. They had a child together and she seemingly vanished July 3rd, 2015. And her car was found on the popular roadway through Kentucky Bluegrass

Parkway a couple of days later. And her purse, her cell phone, everything that a woman would keep with her was found in her car, her unlocked car. And she's not been seen since four years later. You know, to Shea McAllister, investigative reporter, WHAS Louisville. Shea, you guys are rolling her in to the Bardstown murders. Tell me about the other murders. Sure. So all of these cases date back to 2013. That's when Bardstown police officer Jason Ellis was ambushed on his way home from work. It was the middle of the night, and as he was pulling off the highway onto his exit, there was branches laying in the middle of the road, and at least one person hiding, who then shot and killed him when he got out to move the branches. That was the first case. Just over a year later, Samantha and Kathy Netherland, a mother and daughter, were in their home when they were attacked and brutally murdered.

And this is a special education teacher at Bardstown Elementary School and a high schooler, a teenage student. They were very beloved in the community. And that one happened next. And then 16 months later, Crystal Rogers goes missing. And as of right now, we don't know what has become of Crystal Rogers. If she's dead, we don't know her mode of death or cause of death. But so far, we know that multiple people have been murdered in the Bardstown area called the most beautiful small town in America. And why that is significant is you expect a high

murder rate in a big city like Atlanta or New York, Philadelphia, L.A. But in smaller rural areas, you don't expect any murders at all. They traditionally have a very low crime rate, much less a murder rate. Welcome signs actually call it the most beautiful small town in America, the bourbon capital of the world. And as a matter of fact, Jessica Knoll can testify to that. Jessica, weren't you just at the Bourbon capital of the world. And as a matter of fact, Jessica Knoll can testify to that. Jessica, weren't you just at the Bourbon Festival? Right.

So we went back. Spencer Brudig and I, one of our producers, went back to Bardstown for the Kentucky Bourbon Festival, which is a huge deal in Bardstown. Thousands of people come in from all over to sample bourbon from several distilleries that are actually based right there in Bardstown. It's probably the biggest event of the year every year there. So we wanted to go back because there had been some issues with signs that were in yards for the prayers for crystal and standing with the ballards. They were being taken down. And so we wanted to go back and see what was going on and what people were saying. And what we saw was an incredible outcry of community support. Now, wait a minute, wait a minute. I want to talk, I don't want to gloss

over what you just said. Signs across Bardstown have been removed. And the signs specifically were showing support for Crystal Rogers, who goes missing. Incredible pain for Crystal's mother, Sherry Ballard. Her daughter, Crystal, went missing. And then her own husband was mysteriously killed in 2016. Now, a brand new heartache. Very, very disturbing because these signs all across the county were taken down. Now, Ballard blames Bardstown, the city, which says it has to follow city policy.

All temporary signs in right of ways have to be removed. Now, I don't know if that had anything to do with it, but I'm looking at a giant pink placard, a sign that says prayers for crystal. Now, why would anybody want to take that down? And it's not in a right of way. It's off, I would say, a good 15 to 30 feet off the highway. So what happened to the prayers for crystal signs, Jessica? Well, the city and the county deny taking them down, but the signs were actually found behind City Hall near a dumpster where they store signs that have been taken down. So and and Sherry and

some friends and family are actually the ones who found those signs back behind City Hall. And they it didn't stop them. They replenished what was out there. When we went to Bardstown, there were new signs out, but there was also, you know, bourbon festival signs, no parking signs, no pets here signs that were exactly in places where the prayers for crystal signs used to be and were taken down. But they had created some brand new signs also um and some of the signs i should mention aren't just prayers for crystal they're also pointing the finger at the prime suspect in her case brooks hauck and his brother nick hauck you know i'm very curious about why these signs were removed prayers for crystal signs and others pointing the finger, and others were not.

Interesting, because now her family is working double time to replace the signs at the Bourbon Festival in the last days. Denise and Brittany Emerson wore neon Solve These Murders shirts, hoping to get attention to the case. Take a listen to this. You had a little fire. When was that? After you took your walk or before you took your walk? I know we fed the cows first because I want to do that as quickly while we had still plenty of daylight. I don't know if I lit the fire before we walked back here or right when I got back. I could have done it either way. I don't remember.

After the fire and with their toddler in tow, Brooks says he and Crystal take a walk. To me, and I've got a couple of kids, you know, but everybody parents a little differently. To me, it seems a little late to be out on the farm with a two-and-a-half-year-old. Where is he at at midnight? Has he been asleep in the car for a while? No, he's still wide open. He's so used to sleeping so later in the morning.

His normal day, that's his 7, 8 o'clock in the evening. Really? Because she sleeps much later in the morning. She stays up. So, yeah, it's always been that way. So he's wide open. Okay. Did you go straight home on Friday night, or did y'all stop somewhere?

Because I'm thinking if that's their normal 7, 8'clock in the evening it might be dinnertime did you stop and eat something or did you go straight home we did not eat anything I went straight home okay so you went straight home so let's if we assume that he's correct in about 10 minutes after midnight. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. To me, it seems a little late to be out on the farm with a two-and-a-half-year-old. Where is he at at midnight? Has he been asleep in the car for a while?

No, he's still wide open. He's so used to sleeping so later in the morning. His normal day, that's his 7, 8 o'clock in the evening. Really? Because she sleeps much later in the morning. She stays up. So, yeah, it's always been that way. He's wide open.

You were hearing the boyfriend, Brooks Houck, and he's speaking to Detective Snow. Now, let me understand something. To Shea McAllister, investigative reporter with WHAS in Louisville, the boyfriend says he goes for a walk with Crystal and the little baby, the one-year-old, at midnight. That's what he tells police. He says they went down to feed the cows. But Sherry Ballard, Crystal's mom, has had a big problem with this since the beginning. She says that it was very rainy that night and there's just no way Crystal would have wanted to be walking around the farm, much less with her baby. Whose farm was it? It was Houck's mom's farm. So Brooks Houck's mom, Rosemary Houck, has a huge farm on the outskirts of Bardstown. That's where they say

they were. So did Brooks Houck's mother see Crystal there with the baby that night? We don't have any kind of recordings of her police interviews, and she has never given us an interview. I don't know. Have you tried? Have you tried to talk to her? Yeah, we have tried to talk to her. We've seen her in court multiple times over the years. She's always there when Brooks is in court or at custody hearings for that little boy. And we have definitely tried to talk to her. Who has the baby right now? Brooks Houck. Interesting. Very interesting. So she's on a date, I guess you could call it, with her boyfriend. And he thinks it's a good thing to take her to feed the cows at midnight with the baby. Do I, am I understanding this correctly, Jessica Knoll? That is correct. And I do want to point out also in an upcoming episode of our podcast, we actually do go to the farm and try to speak to Rosemary there.

But what's interesting about the clip that you just ran, someone on Facebook, because we've had a lot of chatter from folks that want to chime in with what they're hearing and their thoughts and theories. And someone pointed out that he actually says in that clip, I went home. He doesn't say we, which I thought was kind of interesting for someone to hear when they were listening to that. Because I didn't pick that up. He says we didn't get anything to eat. But then he says, I went home. I noticed that. I noticed when he said, I went home. And I just assumed that Crystal Rogers peeled off.

But having a baby out at midnight, I just don't believe that for a minute. Take a listen to Brooks Houck and Detective Snow. I probably woke up around, you know, in between that time, like 6 or 7 o'clock, and then I left. You know, I did my normal thing, you know, changed my clothes, put my clothes on and headed out, you know, shortly after that. So you get up between 6 and 7, and where's Eli at when you wake up? He's next to me.

He's in the bed with you. Mm-hmm. Okay. So you get up, does he get up with you? He still sleeps whenever I get up, but I go to, you know, the bathroom and all that kind of stuff, and he's still sleeping there on the bed. But Crystal isn't there when he gets up. Brooks takes his son to the farm,

but his lack of concern for Crystal's whereabouts gives the detective pause, and he probes. Interesting. You are hearing Brooks Houck, the boyfriend of Crystal Rogers, the father of their child, and Detective Snow speaking. And we're talking about a new podcast, Bardstown Podcast, at bardstownpodcast.com, where all of this unfolds. I'm going to circle back to what we were just listening to, but take a listen to our friends at WDRB. My mother, Crystal Rogers, went missing and still no answers.

But now mysterious signs are plastered all over Nelson County, and as WDRB's Katrina Helmer reports, the signs don't hold back on who's to blame. Signs like this are popping up all over Bardstown, pointing fingers directly at the help brothers. They grab your attention and that's the point. I saw the signs.

They are very blunt. Sherry Ballard is making it through another 4th of July without her and that's the point. I saw the signs. They are very blunt. Sherry Ballard is making it through another 4th of July without her daughter, Crystal Rogers. She disappeared four years ago. No one has ever been charged. Without any clear answers, Ballard vows to never let anyone forget Crystal. And when these signs popped up overnight,

she says it's comforting. Brooks Houck was named the number one suspect in my daughter's disappearance, and it makes me feel good to think that people out there believe the same thing that I do. We don't want it to die down. We don't want her to be forgotten.

This person wants to remain anonymous, but admits to being one of several people planting these signs in the early morning hours of July 4th. They put out 75 signs with specific phrases. We chose Nick felled the polygraph because Nick did fell the polygraph. Another sign, Brooks Houck is the only suspect in the disappearance of Crystal Rogers. You know, you're still the only suspect and we want to keep that out there.

And this one, ride the wave, it's worked out this far. It refers to a statement Brooks Houck made to WDRB. I've been advised, you know, to ride the wave and keep on keeping on. And that's what I've done, and it's worked out great this far. We still think that he's very cold and disrespectful to the family, uncaring. He never really seemed to be at all bothered by her missing, you know, and that's the mother of his son. At the bottom of the sign, we're praying for sharks, another clear, pointed message. The overall goal is we still don't have answers, we still don't have justice, and we need to keep them in the public eye until we do.

They know in their heart what happened. That's where our friends at WDRB. You know, it's amazing to me that people have to put up signs, 75 signs overnight to try to get justice. Now, remember, Brooke Houck, the Houck brothers, say they are innocent

and everyone is innocent until proven guilty. But it's amazing to me, Jessica Knoll, that it seems as if the investigation has totally stymied. It's come to a screeching halt. What's happening? That's a great question, Nancy. I wish we had some answers for that. When you hear the episode, it kind of lays out what evidence it seems like police have and what it would appear is lacking is a body in this case. But Shea and I asked the sheriff while we were in town originally covering all this in July, is it possible to prosecute and have a conviction without a body? And he said yes. So we really

don't know what the hang up is and and what they're waiting on essentially. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You know, I want to follow up with something you were just saying. If you don't mind, Jackie, could you play Cut 3 one more time? I probably woke up around, you know, in between that time, like 6 or 7 o'clock, and then I left. You know, I did my normal thing, you know, changed my clothes, put my clothes on, and headed out, you know, shortly after that.

So you get up between 6 and 7, and where's Eli at when you wake up? He's next to me. He's in the bed with you. Mm-hmm. Okay. So you get up, does he get up with you? He's still asleep whenever I get up, but I go to the bathroom and all that kind of stuff,

and he's still sleeping there on the bed. But Crystal isn't there when he gets up. Yes, I noticed. I mean, I noticed that she wasn't there. I didn't know what was, I didn't know exactly what to think. I don't know what time I called her. Yes, I called her that morning. Brooks takes his son to the farm, but his lack of concern for Crystal's whereabouts gives the detective pause if i woke up on a saturday morning and my wife wasn't with me in the bed as is normal if she were not

probably the first thing i would do would be to call her to find out where she was shane mcallister i i'm hearing them talking about the hawk brothers there's more than one of them yes there is there are two help brothers there's nick help the one of them? Yes, there is. There are two Houck brothers. There's Nick Houck, the older of the two. He was a Bardstown police officer when Crystal went missing. And then his younger brother, Brooks Houck, was Crystal's boyfriend. So is the brother still with the police force? He is not. He was fired just a few months after Crystal went missing. And you'll actually hear a little bit more on that

in the recent or in upcoming episodes where Nick interfered with the investigation. He actually called his brother Brooks while he was in an interrogation room with police. As a matter of fact, take a listen to this. The interview is interrupted when Brooks gets a call from his older brother, Nick Houck, the Bardstown police officer. with the detective, Detective Snow.

I've been up here a good little while. I'm feeling out this statement here and everything. Are you telling me that's what I need to do? I know I'm not, I know that, but the way that I look at it is I'm innocent, I ain't done nothing wrong. Well, you know, I know you've not. I know that. But the way that I look at it is I'm innocent. I ain't done nothing wrong. I know you've told me innocent people have got jammed up, but if you're telling me to leave, I'll get up and leave. If you want me to...

I know I'm going through a lot, but I'm trying to get this guy to help me. I don't think she's ran off with some other guy. I don't believe that. You can't make me think that. Yeah, I mean, so do I. I'll do exactly what you're telling me to do right now. You want me to get up and leave? Well, that's exactly what he did.

That's Brooks Houck, the boyfriend, the lover of Crystal Rogers, now missing with Detective Snow. And as a matter of fact, he did get up and leave. Well, long story short, the Bardstown police chief, Rick McGavin, hears that the officer, Officer Howell, calls his brother and tells him to leave. Listen. But news of that phone call eventually gets back to Bardstown Police Chief Rick McCubbin and goes against everything his oath of ethics stands for in his department. Nick wasn't being questioned, no.

But what really got my Irish up was the fact that he called his brother and I guess, you know, kind of encouraged him to, you know, to leave, to get out of there. And sure, you, again, let me use the example of you and your friend could call you and go, man, Jessica, you need to shut to get out of there and sure you know again let me get let me use the example you and your friend could call you and go and Jessica you need to shut up and leave nothing I can do about it but your friend's not a cop your brother's not a cop and I told him I said that that's not how this profession rolls you don't get to do that I don't care if you're looking out for your brother or not you don't get get to do that. You know, so that was, you know, part of it. Well, as a matter of fact, after that, Nick Houck's boss, the police chief, orders him to talk to detectives. And according to an FBI

polygraph examiner who tells Nick Houck in a police interrogation video, quote, it's pretty clear you haven't told me the complete truth. and the questions you're having problems with are questions about crystal in particular whether or not you know where she is right now explain that to me jessica no what happened so the fbi polygraph examiner tells nick hauck the police officer at time, that he is not being truthful with him. And that whole interaction just really begins to escalate. And he at one point asks him, as Nick is getting audibly frustrated with him because he's calling him a liar, essentially. At one point, the FBI polygraph examiner says, is this how you acted towards Crystal? And he obviously begins yelling at that point. So there is something, and you know better than us that polygraph examinations aren't always 100%, possibly telling him something, about him having any involvement.

He was not being truthful according to their examination. Take a listen to this. Well, Nick, I've had a chance to review your charts on that test, that first test. You did not pass the test, and it's pretty clear to me that you haven't told me the complete truth today. And the questions you're having a problem with are questions about Crystal and in particular one about whether or not you know where she is right now. And I don't I treat police officers in these circumstances like I would myself. So we're not going to go through all the interview interrogation nonsense that you and and i are on the same page uh but again i'm also going to tell you the complete truth as we're sitting here and it's no longer a matter of wondering do you know anything about what happened we're past that now i mean i'm crystal clear with you i give everybody a good fair test i'm no longer asking you if you know you do Now, what you want to do with that is entirely up to you. I'm not going to yell and scream at you and get the sick with the phone book and all that.

I'm talking to you man to man as a fellow law enforcement officer that the time has come for you to think real hard about the rest of your life. This is you. I'm not talking about Brooks or anybody else. And I'm telling the facts live, I'm an old guy, I'm not trying to be a father figure here, but I'll tell you, I've been doing this for 25 years, the way that this pans out. When the FBI gets involved in this investigation, I want you to listen to what I'm saying, you don't have to say anything to me, I can do whatever you want to do. As I said, we, you may never even be an FBI agent, right? But once you get on the radar, we don't go away, unless there's a reason to.

I thought there would be. You didn't pass this, and there's some other information there as well. So I guarantee you we're not going away, all right? The FBI has unlimited resources in terms of forensic information, electronic information, many bodies as well, and poor attributes, surveillance, and look also revealed to Nick they found bodily fluids inside his police cruiser. The day after, he and Brooks leave the station together and drive to their mom's farm.

Have you ever heard of luminol? You ever been in any kind of criminal investigation? All right, you know what luminol is used for? To find blood? Okay. Or other bodily fluids. So we all excrete bodily fluids, sweat, you know, vomit, anything, you know, saliva, all that is what would fluoresce. Why would your trunk look like a Smurf if they sprayed it? Why would it fluoresce? I mean, it would look like Chernobyl. There's a couple spots in your trunk in that blanket, I mean, just lit up like Chernobyl. Why would that?

There's not going to be any blood in the trunk. Okay, well, I did not say blood. I'm talking about other bodily fluids. I don't have blood. There shouldn't be any bodily fluids in the trial. Whoa, there's not going to be any blood. Well, that tells me right there that there's a strong possibility she was asphyxiated. There's not going to be any blood. That's the first thing he said.

And again, everyone has said they're not guilty, that they're innocent in this case, and they have a right to a trial by jury. You know, in many big jurisdictions, and I assume this is true in small as well, cars are cleaned out at the end of every patrol with cleaner. Let me ask you something. To Jessica Knoll, investigative journalist, podcast producer with Vault Studios, Shane McAllister, investigative reporter with whas louisville who have come up with an incredible podcast bardstown podcast were the fluids left in the patrol car tested and if so did they match crystal rogers uh again nancy a really great question what we know is what we have heard in these recordings with police. The police, the KSP, I believe the testing may have been done by the FBI, are being very tight lipped about what they have found, both in the car, in the searches they've done, which you'll hear about this week. They're not telling us what they found or any test results that have come back.

Wow. Okay, question to Shea McAllister. So according to the boyfriend, okay, Hauk, Crystal Rogers and the baby are there at his mom's farm that evening he takes them at midnight to walk down to the cow barn and take care of the cows they come he goes i come home and then he says the next morning crystal is gone when did he report her missing brooks hawk never reports her missing. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Crystal Rogers and the baby are there at his mom's farm that evening. He takes them at midnight to walk down to the cow barn and take care of the cows. He goes, I come home. And then he says the next morning, Crystal is gone. When did he report her missing? Brooks Houck never reports her missing. Brooks Houck never reports her missing. Actually, her mom reports her missing a few days later when she's had trouble reaching her over the phone. And when she actually runs into Brooks Houck in town, she asks Brooks,

Hey, have you seen Crystal? Where do you think she is? And Brooks said, no, I haven't seen her. And Sherry says, well, then I'm going to go report her missing. And Brooks says, yeah, I think you should do that. Take a listen to Brooks speaking to Detective Snow on this very issue. Brooks runs into Crystal's mom. I met her mother at the gas station somewhere. One of them days, her mother, Sherry, Crystal's mother, Sherry, came up here to my window and asked me if I'd seen Crystal. And when you told her what, I haven't seen her, don't know where she is, and she just said okay and asked me to go. No, she thought that the wisest thing for us to do was she said she was going to go to the police station.

And then I went home. Meanwhile, Crystal's mom files a missing persons report at the Nelson County Sheriff's Office around 3 p.m. Two hours later, her father, Tommy, gets a call. Crystal's car has been found along the Bluegrass Parkway. Tommy goes and uncovers her keys, phone, and purse inside. Brooks tells Detective Snow that he wasn't concerned until Sunday because she'd, quote, done this before. Joining me right now, in addition to her parents, Tom and Sherry Ballard, her boyfriend that she lived with.

So Brooks, you go to bed and she's still playing games on her phone. The next morning around eight o'clock, you notice that she's missing. Did you report her missing? No, ma'am. Why? That is a great question and one that I definitely want to hit the public and the media. I was not in the least little bit alarmed in any way, shape, or form. We have had a stress relationship at times,

and one of the ways that Crystal has always chose to cope or to deal with that is by going to a young woman named Sabrina. That is her cousin, her dad's brother's daughter, whom she's very close to. She spent the night there on several occasions. When you say several, do you mean 1, 3, 20? In the neighborhood of 4 to 6, something like that. Tom and Sherry Ballard, were you aware of that?

Do you know who Sabrina is? Yes, ma'am. That's my niece. OK. Did you know that she doesn't spend the night over there when she's having an issue at home? I've known probably one time. Right.

OK, I want to go back to Brooks Houck. Let me ask you this. I know that you agreed to take a polygraph. Did you pass? They, because of the way that the lines or whatever were on the thing, they determined it to be what's called inconclusive. I'm not exactly sure what that means, but they did tell me it didn't. It does mean that I wasn't lying or

I didn't pass it or I didn't sell it. They just ruled it inconclusive and that's exactly the way that it stands. I've been 100% completely honest with everyone. I've been 100% a cooperative and everything that has been asked of me. I've not asked for any kind of legal advice or assistance or an attorney of any nature. I'm 100% completely innocent in this, and I have exhausted my efforts with the law enforcement agencies to gather all the facts necessary to allow me to have a clean name again. And that's very important to me. You are hearing who has been called the number one suspect,

Crystal Rogers' lover, Brooks Houck, with me questioning him. I find it very interesting that either he's not telling me the truth or the FBI agent that took the polygraph is not telling the truth because I was looking right at the video when the agent, the polygrapher says, you did not pass. Okay. That's not inconclusive. That's you did not pass. But when I was questioning him, howck says that it was inconclusive, basically blaming the test. Also, I heard something very significant. Apparently the first story was they were up playing games,

like video games, I guess, and then went to sleep. That's a far cry from feeding the cows, Jessica Knoll. Brooks' story is that once they got home from the farm, he went to bed and his son stayed up with Crystal and Crystal played games on her phone. And that was the last time he saw her.

Hmm. Hmm. For more on the disappearance, and many of us believe the death of a mom of five, Crystal Rogers. Join Shea and Jessica at bardstownpodcast.com. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye. This is an iHeart Podcast.