Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Beautiful mom and baby daughter found dead beside train tracks. What happened to Kadie Major and baby River?

Episode Date: February 27, 2020

Kadie Major finds out she is pregnant again, this time with a son. The next day she is dead. Her body is found next to train tracks, and her little girl is found drowned in a pond. The corner rules murder-suicide. But is it?Joining Nancy Grace today: Vicky Hall - Mother of Kadie Major  Jessica Sanders - Private Investigator, Clearview Investigations Ashley Willcott - Judge and trial attorney, Anchor on Court TV, www.ashleywillcott.com  Dr Daniel Bober - Forensic Psychiatrist, follow on Instagram at drdanielbober Sheryl McCollum - Forensics Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder Dr. Tim Gallagher - Medical Examiner State of Florida,  Anne Emerson - WCIV ABC 4 Charleston reporter Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. A beautiful mom and her infant daughter found dead near train tracks. Count it off as a murder-suicide or was it? What happened to Katie Major and baby River Major? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. She was living the perfect life for her. That's what Katie wanted to be, was a mother, have children, be a wife, take care of her house, cook, garden.

She was living her dream. She really was. Erin and Katie, you're about to launch into a new life. Katie had married the love of her life in 2003. Hi, Erin. Thank you, Katie. Her high school sweetheart, Aaron Major. They really were just like best friends. Aaron went to work for Katie's dad, who was a house painter.

She settled in as a homemaker. In 2007, they welcomed River Lynn. She had this beautiful little smile that made her just look like an angel. Look at River. She's all smiley. Vicki says Katie had never been happier. You looking at those pictures? We need to get River. She was so excited about having children, and she wanted a big family. Not long after River was born, Katie got pregnant again.

This time, she learned with a son. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. You were hearing our friend Peter Van Zandt at 48 hours. Originally ruled murder-suicide? That's tough to take in. With me, an all-star panel to make sense of it all. With me, Jessica Sanders, private investigator, Clearview Investigations on the case. Renowned psychoanalyst out of Beverly Hills. Dr. Bethany Marshall at drbethanymarshall.com,

director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute. Forensics expert Cheryl McCollum, the medical examiner for the state of Florida. But straight out now to Ann Emerson, WCIV ABC4 Charleston. Ann, let's just start at the beginning. How was Katie found dead? It was a cold, rainy, sleety night. We don't have a whole lot of those down here in South Carolina, but it was in a

little town called Monk's Corner, about 45 minutes from Charleston. She lived there with her family. Her mom had a beautiful horse farm nearby. The night that she sort of went missing, according to police, it was January 17, 2009. She reportedly had been talking to her mom on the phone. They had tried to make arrangements for dinner. It didn't work out. This is around six o'clock at night. Now, according to police reports, what happened was that she came home. Her husband says that she talked to him, had made some rumblings that there was some kind of paranoid issues going on. She was worried about her safety and had left while he was in the shower. What we know, how she was found was the next day after searching for her and the father, the husband was looking for her. Her mom is looking for her and the father the husband was looking for her her mom is looking for her

everyone's looking for uh this young woman and she has her little girl river with her and of course she also is pregnant at the time with a little boy and they the police report they have found uh a body two bodies uh near the railroad, and that's where the disappearance ends, and we are now dealing with what happened to this poor woman and her child. The woman, Katie Majors, 26 years old, is found by the railroad tracks with lacerations to her stomach. Her child is found nearby floating in a pond. And at that point, the investigation turns towards looking at, and from what we understand, gets ruled rather quickly as some type of, we don't know what happened to the baby at that time. They're saying it's undetermined,

but the mother, they're reporting it as a suicide at the railroad track. Well, what was her cause of death? If the baby drowned in a pond, what about Katie? The corners reporting from the autopsy report is that it was that she threw herself in front of the train. That's what that's what the official report was, was that she had died by suicide. And that's why they found her by the railroad tracks. I also read the report said that she had, the baby had somehow gotten thrown during the, when she had been hit by the train that was coming.

And when that baby landed in a pond that was nearby, like a little water source nearby. That's a lot to take in with me. Ann Emerson, WCIV, ABC4, Charleston. Her family insists this was no suicide murder. Murdering a little baby? I don't get it. Take a listen to a police interview.

About halfway through the shower, I heard, I didn't know, I wasn't sure it was her truck cranking up, but I heard something like that, you know. It wasn't a shower, so I got out of the shower, looked out the window, and her truck cranking up, but I heard something like that, you know. While I was in the shower. So I got out of the shower, looked out the window, and her truck was gone. So I got dressed, got in my truck, tried to find her. Did you do anything else at the house before you left? Did you pay your employees, or you just left?

I left at that point. Yeah, I left and went after her and tried to find her. It might have been five or ten minutes before I got out of the shower, dried off, and put my clothes on and got in the truck. And then I drove around just in the central Moncks Corner area's hotels. I checked hotels because I thought, well, she's not safe here. She's going to go to a hotel, and's got you know several hundred dollars to just you know where'd you get the money from we do a cash budget every week okay you're hearing her husband aaron he was spoken to by police immediately since he was the last one to see her listen to this

you rode around for a while in a needle in a haystack yeah needle in a haystack that's exactly so i just i sat there in the bilo shopping center for a minute i was just trying to think you know i don't know trying to figure this out i guess and i was like i'm just gonna go home because she's gonna be back just like before, you know. And that's when I did Derek's payroll. About what time do you think he got home? Did you look at the clock when you came in?

I don't know. But it should be on the computer when you started doing the payroll. Yeah, I got the payroll. It's still sitting in the office because I hadn't had the checkbook to pay him yet and stuff. But, yeah, I got that. It's on QuickBooks. I got the thing printed out. I don't know. I mean, that was between 8 and 9 somewhere

when I first left the house, I guess, somewhere. So I don't know. It might have been, I'm just guessing, between 9 and 10, you know. You were hearing the husband speak perfectly calmly and giving answers to everything police ask. But, of course, you have to ask the husband, the partner, the lover, the boyfriend, and vice versa with women first.

He was the last one to see her before she got in the car and drove off with the baby. And, naturally, he's going to be questioned first. Joining us right now, a special guest, Katie Major Mom, Vicki Hall. She has created a website called Katie, K-A-D-I-E, katieandherbabies.com. Vicki, thank you so much for being with us. Thank you, Nancy. Vicki, tell me about the night that you discovered that your girl, Katie, just 26 years old and River, just 10 months old, had passed away. What happened? The husband showed up at our house at 1.44 a.m. and called my phone from the driveway.

And Katie's dad answered and said, said Jeff I need to come in and talk to you about something he didn't say Jeff is Katie here is River here and he came in with this story that Katie um was had a premonition that someone was going to kill her and was shaking and trembling and wanted to leave the house. And Eddie told her, just give me a minute. Let me take a shower and I'll bring you wherever you want to go. crime stories with nancy grace vicky and her husband jeff were awakened at 1 44 a.m when aaron suddenly showed up at their home i remember telling myself oh my god what is wrong why is aaron here sitting on the porch he's never come in the middle of the night vicky says he told her when they arrived home after Aaron finished working,

Katie started acting paranoid and stood in the doorway with River refusing to enter. He said, when Katie got home, she said she had a premonition that someone was going to kill her. He said, she's standing there shaking and trembling, and she wanted to go get a hotel. And he said, I told her, let me go take a shower,

and then I'll bring you wherever you want. And he said he went and took a shower, he heard a truck start, and she's gone. Then, Vicki says, out of the blue, Aaron suddenly started going off on a string of bizarre conspiracy theories. Like, the world's coming to an end, and, you know, the government blew up the Twin Towers.

They asked him, why are you talking about this? And that's the moment everything changed. Okay, I don't understand that either. You're hearing our friend Peter Van Zandt at 48 Hours reiterating what Katie's mom just told us. Vicki Hall with us along with Jessica Sanders, P.I., Dr. Bethany Marshall, Cheryl McCollum, Dr. Tim Gallagher, and Ann Emerson, WCIV ABC4. Back to Katie's mom, Vicki Hall. All right, so at that point,

Katie's body had not been found near the railroad tracks. I'm perfectly familiar with where Monk's Corner is. It's got a low population surrounded by rural area. So at the time he came to your home, Vicki, you're telling me he had not, he didn't know what had happened yet. And he came to your home 1.44 a.m., and instead of saying, hey, is Katie here? He started telling you about how she was paranoid, but then he started talking about the government calls, the 9-11? Yes, ma'am. Okay, you know what? Let me just slow this whole thing down for a minute. With me, everybody, is Vicki Hall.

You can find out more about her and Katie at katieandherbabies.com, created by Vicki. So he shows up. You guys let him in. He sits down. What's his demeanor? And what's the first thing he says as you remember it? when he told me they had gone to a hotel, I started asking him questions like, does Katie have her glasses? Does she have River's portable bed? And he's sitting there calm. I'm pulling my hair. I'm literally pulling my hair with both hands up to the ceiling. I'm like, what do you mean? And he's sitting there extremely calm. I can still see him. And he had one hand cupped over his other hand in his lap and he's just completely calm. You said, Vicki, that he, the husband, Aaron Major, said that night, 144 a.m., after he comes to your house, calm demeanor, that Katie went to a hotel, that they were at a hotel.

Is that right? That's what he led us to believe. Interesting. That she had a premonition and wanted to go to a hotel, and when he got in the shower, she left without him. Oh, okay. So he didn't confirm that she was at a hotel, but that she wanted to go to a hotel. Yes. He let us believe that she had, you know, was there though, that she had went to a hotel somewhere. Okay. Got it. What else did he say? Um, he started wanting to talk about, you know, I did want to call the police and he didn't want me to. And then my husband agreed that, you know, they probably wouldn't do anything at this point.

He started talking about the Twin Towers blowing up the government. He wanted to act like the world was coming to an end type of talk. I'm trying to remember everything that moment because this. Yeah, about websites he was reading on Jeremiah Project dot com. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Jessica Sanders, Private Eye. What is Jeremiah Project dot com? It's a religious website, but there's a lot of conspiracies in it.

It talks about the Antichrist, the end of time. I think it's actually a lot of different people's outlooks that are put into that website. But that wasn't the only one he was looking at. There were several, but he was claiming that Katie was the one looking at these websites and was paranoid. But, in fact, when I went through the computer history, I was able to find that they were only looked at when he was home. And, in fact, the night that they went missing, he was on those websites for hours while they were missing. And the police never did catch up. Okay, wait. He was on those websites while hours while they were missing. And the police never did catch up. Okay, wait.

He was on those websites while they're missing? Yes. Before their bodies are found? Yes. Okay, let me tell you what Jeremiah Project is about. Quote, Bible prophecy and the end times. Hear this, America. Therefore, I bring charges against you again, declares the Lord.

Okay, a lot about charges against your children and your children's children. All about warnings and scary pictures painted in black and white, about how all sorts of people are guilty, that there are no political solutions for our spiritual problems. There are pictures of children crying with flames behind them. It's got pictures of the Twin Towers smoking about to fall, resist the new world order. Okay, Dr. Bethany Marshall, shrink, excuse me, renowned psychoanalyst, joining me out of Beverly Hills at drbethanymarshall.com.

Many, many times I have told my investigators, I have told people working on cases with me. When you're looking for a perp, pick the nut. If there is a nut involved in the scenario, that's where you look first. Why would he be talking about the Twin Towers and the government causing 9-1-1, at the time, according to Jessica Sanders and Vicki Hall, who heard it herself, his wife and baby are missing. And I don't like doomsday talk. I mean, it's very clear if you're a Bible, if you see an auto, and I certainly don't claim to be a Bible scholar, but I know this. We're not going to know at the end of time. No human is going to know that. They can be all the prophecies they want, but it's very clear. That's not for us to know. So all of that is just a big waste of time when you could be out helping other people. That's our directive as Christians, to help other people. Okay, so

you're the shrink. What do you think, Bethany? If a person has homicidal feelings, it is often towards their most intimate partner, because that's where their strongest emotions are. When we feel resentment, envy, fear, anxiety, usually it's in the context of our most intimate relationships. So here, Katie's most intimate person in her life at 1.45 in the morning goes and knocks on his in-laws doors and he starts spouting all these doomsday prophecies. Now, my question would be, does he have a history of paranoia? Has he been a conspiracy theorist all along? Is this typical behavior for him? Or was he researching on his computer while his wife and baby and unborn baby were missing all these doomsday prophecies so that he could malinger craziness and what i mean by that

malingering is when you make up a fictitious or fake disorder in order to cover a crime or some consequence for negative actions it's faking so is he faking being crazy to throw the parents off of the trail is he faking that his wife is crazy in order to throw the police potentially and his wife off the trail? I feel like he's beginning to build an alibi. He's beginning to build a case for why he is not the one who would have murdered his wife, that she was involved in all these doomsday prophecies, and that also he's too crazy to commit a crime. He's talking about the Twin Towers. He's babbling about the end times and dead babies or whatever else is on the website. crime stories with nancy grace guys nancy grace here we are heading straight into breaking crime and justice news but first how can you keep yourself and your children safe i have investigated and prosecuted literally thousands of felony cases.

I have covered literally thousands of cases of missing people, adults, and children, unsolved homicides, violent crimes. After all the cases, after speaking to all the victims, all the police, all the witnesses over years, what can we do about it? I don't want to just sit back and report on it. I want to take action. And I know you must feel the same way. You don't want to just hear about crime. You want to do something about it and do something to stop it. And here is the news.

Don't be a Victim, Fighting Back Against America's Crime Wave, a brand new book. After interviewing literally hundreds of crime victims and police, we put our knowledge into Don't Be a Victim. This book is for everyone who wants to stay safe or who wants to keep your loved one safe. CrimeOnline.com, pre-order now and know that portions of our proceeds goes to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. explore the children. Back at Katie's house, Sarah was waiting alone in case her sister came home. She noticed a highlighted Bible passage on the kitchen table. What did you read on those papers? The thing that stands out that I read that I will never forget is that the firstborn son is to be sacrificed. I knew something wasn't right. Frightened, Sarah immediately called her mom to come get her. When Vicki and Aaron picked her up,

both mother and daughter noticed something that would become etched in their memories. Aaron's hand. He had lifted his hand up, and I'm like, why is his hand so big? What I didn't know at that moment is Sarah saw it too. It just almost looked like a monster's hand, you know, it just looked bad. His whole fingers were swollen.

Was it connected to Katie's disappearance? Vicki filed that detail and the other red flags in the back of her mind. You're hearing our friend Peter Van Zandt at 48 hours. What happened to Katie Major? the red flags in the back of her mind. You're hearing our friend Peter Van Zandt at 48 hours. What happened to Katie Major? Why was that particular verse in the Bible highlighted that the firstborn son is to be sacrificed? I guess that's out of the Old Testament. How could it be that that is highlighted, Cheryl McCollum, on the night the baby is killed. Cheryl, you know there is no coincidence in criminal law. Correct. Nancy, this is going to come down to math for me. So again, you say to yourself, there's 30,000 suicides a year. Less than 70 are by train.

And of those 70, nobody was holding a baby and nobody that's been documented was pregnant. So hold on a second. If you accept that as fact, then you have to look at this by much, much more than this was a suicide and walk away from it. It's not going to be possible for you to accept that quickly, if at all. When you add the Bible verse, and then you look at her only injury, so you have a Bible verse, the only son is to be sacrificed. She's pregnant with a son that she's already named, which means she's future planning. She's loving and caring for that baby boy, Aiden. Then you say, okay, she's going to commit suicide by train. How do you do that when only your stomach is hit by the train? I mean, I can't fathom how she's able to do that

with an oncoming train and only your stomach is hit with a two-foot laceration. I mean, this is crime scene reconstruction by Wiley Coyote. Take a listen to this. At 11.31 a.m., came a call from Erin that would alter the course of her life. He said, I heard on the radio that there's an accident. A train hit a vehicle on Oakley Road and two people are dead. Vicki headed straight to Oakley Road road but there was no train no vehicle no sign of a collision then as she was leaving she spotted katie's truck undamaged about 500

feet from the tracks and i just fell on my knees and collapsed because i knew it wouldn't make any sense her truck should never here, right here. Erin was her first call. You tell him that you have found the pickup truck. Does he cry out? No. Not at all. Okay, none of this is making sense. And the likelihood of committing suicide during pregnancy is extremely, extremely low statistically. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. What happened to Katie? To Dr. Tim Gallagher, the medical examiner joining us out of the state of Florida, what do you make of Katie's injuries? There's a couple of pieces of information that I need to know in order to determine what an opinion would be of the injuries. Number one, what is the speed of the trains as they go past that area where she was found? Were they

going two miles an hour? Are they going 100 miles an hour? You know, this would help me to determine if the injuries were caused, in fact, by that train. So from what I understand, she had lacerations of the stomach and possibly a broken leg. These are typically injuries that are not found with somebody who meets their end with a train. Typically, we would find much more devastating injuries, spinal injuries, injuries to the head, injuries to all of the limbs, both arms, both legs. Because you have to remember, after the impact with the train they are going through the air and land on the ground and have secondary and secondary impacts that also cause a lot of damage so minor damage or minor injuries the way that was described is certainly not consistent at first

blush with being impacted by a train but I would have to know what the speed of the train was at that time of the night jessica jump in yeah what they said back then with the csx being the train it would have been going around 55 miles an hour and then they changed it um you know last year to the amtrak which would run about 70 miles an hour so and her body was actually laying six feet from the actual track, which you would think if you're hit, no matter which train it was, she would have been thrown to the side pretty significantly. I mean, a 500 pound cow is thrown, you know, a hundred feet at least. Let me ask you this. How far, where was her vehicle?

Her vehicle was parked in a driveway, almost blocking the man's ability to get in. And it was, what, 500 feet from the crossing. And then her body was found, I believe it was around half a mile from that point. So she would have had to walk that far. We know that a forensic team came to the tracks. A railroad worker had discovered the bodies around 8 20 that morning they theorized she had been struck on the side by an object hanging off the train because there had been no report of a train accident is my understanding joining me vicki hall this is katie's mom tell me the demeanor of the husband, Aaron Major, after Katie's body was found.

And had he exhibited any of this abnormal behavior regarding conspiracy theories and end of times, doomsday websites before? No, there was none, zero before. And his demeanor afterwards was very strange. The police told him to come to my house that morning when they know the bodies were found and he came to my house. I didn't even know he was here. He was sitting on my couch. The police are in my house, the coroner,

you know, my husband's in the bedroom screaming. We just found out they're dead. And Aaron sat on the couch and didn't say a word to anybody. He didn't come and say, Vicki, what do you know? He sat there with his head looking at the floor. And then they took him away. And he never acted normal after that. I never saw him grieve. I never saw one tear, nothing.

Well, as a matter of fact, listen to this. He wanted Aiden, the unborn son, displayed publicly for viewing on top of Katie. I'm like, Aaron, no. That wasn't the end of his bizarre behavior at the viewing, says Chad. He was just sitting there nonchalantly on the front pew eating McDonald's, drinking out of his big McDonald's cup. The dead bodies of his family are right in front of him. He could reach out and touch them. He never shed a tear. He never came and hugged anybody. It was the sickest thing I've ever witnessed in my whole life. Two days after the funeral, Aaron went in for surgery to mend his

broken hand. Okay, I'm having a hard time taking that in. Did I understand that right? Vicki Hall, Katie's mom, he ate McDonald's and drank out of a big McDonald's cup? Yes, ma'am. Yes. On the front row at the funeral home? Yeah, it's like he kind of guarded the bodies. He'd sit there and eat, and nobody could get up there to them. But yeah, he'd just sit there eating, eating french fries and hamburger, had this really big, the biggest drink from McDonald's

you can get sipping on that. I want to get something clear regarding the timeline, Vicki Hall. This is Katie's mom, everybody. Immediately after she goes missing, you observe, along with Sarah, that his hand is swollen up. Really swollen, as she said, like a, quote, monster hand. Yeah.

Is that correct? Yes. Okay, take a listen to this. Sarah, remembering that swollen hand, was convinced Aaron broke it while killing her sister. It just made me think, like, did he hit his hand on the train and pushing her into the train or fighting with her? That's what made me know in my heart, in my head, that he was involved. Both Sarah and Vicki say they had seen Aaron's injured hand the morning the bodies were discovered. But Alec's investigation turned up another explanation, that Aaron injured it two days later at the funeral home when he

punched a wall while choosing a coffin. We inquired with the funeral director and she said, yes, I witnessed him punch a cinder block wall. At first, Aaron tried to make the funeral private, telling Vicki and her family they were not invited. Everything was a fight from the very moment they died to have things done normally. Mother and daughter were in the same coffin. Miraculously, Katie's face was largely undamaged, and the family wanted an open casket for Katie and River. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Vicki and Jessica say there were more damning clues back at the house. Some stuff was knocked off of River's dresser. There was clothes on the floor. All of these drawers, they were all open in the whole bathroom. What does that suggest to you? There was a fight. I believe 100% there was a fight and she was trying to leave him. Do you believe that Katie Major may have died inside her own house? I do. I think it's very possible that she died at the house. Their house, a potential crime scene, was never properly processed. There's no photos.

No forensics search at the house. No forensics at all. If there was a fight that started there, luminol tests, easy. They did nothing. Okay, that's very disturbing. You're hearing our friends at 48 Hours, too. Cheryl McCollum, from what I have learned

regarding Katie Major, her home, especially the baby's room, would never have looked like this. Things knocked off. River's dresser just knocked off. Clothes all over the floor. Drawers were open. That doesn't make sense,

but no forensics were done at the home. I don't understand it, Cheryl McCollum. I don't understand it either, Nancy. And there's just no excuse for it. Another thing that goes toward them having a fight, her wedding ring was in her pocket. Now, she supposedly drives this car and abandons it, but there's no car keys. But her wedding ring is in her pocket. That to me is indicative of somebody that is angered,

takes that ring off like, I'm done. So there was something that should have been followed up to me. That house should have been combed through with every forensic agent they had. If I could say something, not only did they not forensics the house, they never went to the house and looked around when their bodies were found. There's been nothing done. Take a listen to this.

Lewis and Kokinda did what Alec and his team didn't do. Hello. Talk to Katie's closest friends. I'll not escape with you Monday. Katie's closest friends. Kokinda says the cold case unit has confirmed that Aaron told the original detective a huge lie, a potential game changer. That's when I heard on talk radio, 94.3, that there had been a person and a young child hit by the train in Berkeley County. And just as Vicki had said, that was a bold-faced lie.

There was no radio report. There was no radio report. Why would he have told a story about hearing this report, do you think? I think he wanted Katie and River found. Okay, that is one of the single most disturbing facts to me out of so many. First, the hand was swollen like a, quote, monster hand. And then later at the funeral home, many, many hours later, he suddenly hits that same hand against the wall, thereby explaining the swelling. But this radio report to Vicki Hall, this is Katie's mom. Is this true? He told, and I'm talking about the husband, Aaron Major,

he said he found out about the train tracks on the radio, but yet that never happened. Yes, ma'am. He found out, he called me and told me to go to Oakley road that a train hit a vehicle and two people are dead. And the radio station said they did not say that. Um, he told me to go to Oakley road. Oakley road was never announced on the radio, whether Berkeley County could, you know, there could have been an announcement of Berkeley County. Berkeley County is huge. His mistake is he sent me to Oakley Road and there was never, Oakley Road was never announced on the radio. And there was no announcement on the radio period when he called me and said he just heard on the radio, you know, that there was a train hit a

vehicle and no train hit a vehicle either. So. Okay, that is a huge red flag to Cheryl McCollum. In my mind, that's one of the strongest pieces of evidence before it's out there, before the bodies have been found. He, according to Vicki Hall, is directing his wife's mother to where the bodies are. But yet it had not been made public. The keys to the vehicle were gone, although everything else was still in the victim's pocket. Who drove the car there? Who had the keys?

How did he fabricate a radio report that never existed? He knew where the bodies were, Cheryl. Not only did he know where they were, he had already set the stage for what happened to them. He's already telling you a train hit them. So no matter what you see, he wants you to accept that. You already heard the PI say that a cow would be hit 100 yards. That baby was 50 yards from her mama. She would have gone much further. Nancy, if somebody's punched in the stomach just with a fist, they go forward. Their face goes forward. Her face is without injury. The baby

has no additional injury. The baby was alive when she went in the water. Her little lungs will show that. That statement alone is a money tree and a game changer for this case. To Dr. Tim Gallagher, medical examiner for the state of Florida. Dr. Gallagher, how could you tell if the lacerations on her body, a half a mile away from her car, were from a train? Well, there's nothing more devastating to the human body than being hit by a train going at the reported 70 miles an hour. The injuries would be on every part of her body, including broken spine, severed spinal cord. Sometimes the intestines are then ejected from the abdominal cavity.

A lot of times the brain is ejected from the cranial cavity. So there's nothing more devastating to the human body than being impacted by a train. And certainly, there'd be no doubt that that was the cause of death. In her case, I'd like to see her injuries had to come from someplace. You know, so it would be important to see what the pattern of that type of injury was. But it certainly doesn't appear to be that of being struck by a train. We also know that Katie had just seen her doctor the day before. Vicki and Jessica went to work determined to show that Katie was not psychotic. They spoke to dozens of witnesses, including Katie's obstetrician, Christine Case, who examined her the day before her death. I do not think, in my professional opinion, that she had any depression or postpartum depression.

Back then, Alec and his team did not speak to Dr. Case, and Vicki says would not listen to what she had to say. She says she was never questioned about her daughter's state of mind and what had happened in the hours on that day that she disappeared. How could someone not have interviewed the family about those things? I don't recall when she was interviewed, and they should have been interviewed for those things. You're darn right, our friend Peter Van Zandt. There's so many theories abounding.

Vicki Hall, Katie's mom. According to her own doctor, she was not depressed. She was not having any type of psychosis the very day before. So these stories about her being paranoid don't make sense to me. No, they make zero sense. I actually was with her after her ultrasound and before her ultrasound with Dr. Case. She was so excited for finding out she's having a baby boy. I was so excited. Our whole family was so excited. It would be our first grandson. And then she called me the night that she died. She called me when she got home. She called me and I talked to her at 6.43 that night. I was driving and I don't know what happened, but

I talked to her that night and she was fine when she got home. She was in the house and she called me and she was fine. So Aaron's story doesn't add up that she's scared, paranoid, shaking, trembling, don't want to go in the house. Tell me about their marriage, Vicki. Yeah, they were high school sweethearts. I'd known Aaron for 10 years. They dated for five years before they got married.

They were like best friends. Aaron was a very private man. Katie was very more outgoing and I just noticed changes after River Lynn was born. My first granddaughter where he just seemed to really be distant himself himself I was getting concerned that he wasn't bonding with River um and then Katie found out she's pregnant again with a little boy the day before but he just seemed to be distant in himself I'm not sure he wanted the children wait she found out she was pregnant the day before she was having a baby boy the day before she died. But I'm not sure he wanted a family. I believe he wanted Katie, but I'm not sure he wanted the children.

You know, I was getting concerned. Okay, so I didn't realize she had just found out the day before she died. Did he remarry? No, he has not remarried him from what I understand. He has not dated another woman. What do you think is the problem with the law enforcement? I don't understand what the holdup is, Vicki. In Berkeley County, it's called the good old boy system.

We have a new sheriff, a new coroner, but they're all related colleague-wide to the old administration, and I feel like they do not want to make changes here, change the manner of death from suicide, because they're looking out for the previous administration. Now, I'm just trying to take everything into Jessica Sanders, private investigator, Clearview Investigations. In my mind, there is so much evidence. It was actually reopened by the sheriff's department. What a piece of evidence that I would like to add is that I had found in the computer records, the same computer records that they had back then, that at 10 a.m., it was like 10.07,

which was an hour and a half before Aaron called Vicki to send her to Oakley Road. He had searched on his home computer. Two people found Ed Berkley County. So he was already looking to find out if they were found yet before he ever even talked to Vicki. Cheryl McCollum, this reminds me so much of the Heidi Broussard case where her friend, Megan Fieramusco, is there at the delivery room and then ends up, according to police, killing her best friend, Heidi Broussard, to get the baby. that the bodies were found. She was looking up frantically over and over and over deaths in the county bodies, Heidi Broussard. She was looking up all of that online before anything had been said about Heidi missing. So it's very damning. If that time is correct. Vicki Hall is the timing of the husband, Aaron Major's Google searches. I understand he was searching for train deaths, train accidents.

Was that before the bodies were found? At 10.07 a.m., I believe, it could have been 10.06, but he searched on the computer. Jessica found it, two people dead, Berkeley County. He was searching to see if they were found. We didn't know they were dead. No one knew except law enforcement that they were dead. We didn't know. And then after that, he starts heading out of this area.

He's driving halfway to Columbia, South Carolina, which is an hour and a half drive. He's halfway there when he calls me and tells me to go to Oakley Road. So he's getting himself out of town at the same time, you know, far enough, halfway out of town. And then he calls me and tells me what he heard on the radio, which we've proven. What was his excuse about why he was halfway out of town, so far away? He told me he was going to go search hotels in Columbia, South Carolina, and it made no sense. He was supposed to go to Somerville, a town right in the area, and look at hotels while I was going to another local area to look at hotels. And all of a sudden,

he starts headed to Columbia, and it made no sense. Vicki, when you speak to the sheriffs, what do they say? They led us to believe that they were going to be moving forward on the case up to the point of calling Aaron the one and only suspect to the media, and now they're backtracking and they're not doing anything. They won't change the ruling on the manner of death. It's like they're protecting the system. What do you make of the note in Katie's pocket?

Some people believe she was documenting her husband's Internet searches. Yes. It looks to me like them are titles of what you would find on the Jeremiah Project. And whether she was sitting next to him, We know that document, that paper only showed up the last 24 hours that it could have been written on, whether she was sitting next to him as he's going through this Jeremiah Project stuff and she's just making notes of what he's saying

or whether she went on and saw his search history and was writing down the titles that he was looking at and getting concerned. What was on the net? A woman could be the Antichrist, sacrificing a virgin baby. I might not have every exact word. Something about Halloween.

So just titles that I know, looking back in the archive of Jeremiah Project, it looked like titles on there. What about it, Jessica Sanders? I do believe that as well because we went on the Jeremiah Project and there is a search bar there where you can, if you type in one thing, it'll actually drop down and show you anything that's been typed in there. So, you know, after looking at that and some of the other stuff he was looking at, we do believe that that's what she was doing. She was worried, and she was writing down the stuff he looked at. The paper that she wrote those things on was actually a worksheet of her brothers that had been faxed to the home the day before.

So that's how we know that paper was fresh. It was only 24 hours. Was it in her handwriting? We haven't had it analyzed, but just from looking at it, we believe some of it is. Katie's family has never believed she was delusional or that she would take her own life or that she would murder her own child. If you believe the case should be investigated as I do, please call Berkeley County Sheriffs 843-719-4465. Repeat, 843-719-4465. Also, if you want to donate to help the private investigation. To help Katie and her babies get the truth and get justice.

Go to Hall's GoFundMe account. H-A-L-L apostrophe S. GoFundMe account. It's at Help Katie and her baby's case get truth and justice. K-A-D-I-E and her baby's one word. Help Katie and her baby's case get truth and justice. K-A-D-I-E and her baby's one word help Katie and her baby's case get truth and justice. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.