Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Beautiful mom Heidi Broussard and 3-week-old baby vanish after school book fair

Episode Date: December 17, 2019

Texas mom Heidi Broussard and her newborn baby vanish without a trace after she drops her oldest child at a book fair. Her fiance says all her belongings, aside from her cellphone, were left behind in their Austin apartment. No one has seen or heard from her since.What happened to Heidi?Joining Nancy Grace to discuss the case: Bruce Johnson: Owner of ISP Investigations, Retired Master Sgt Region One Crime Scene Commander, Chicago Metro Area Dr. Debbie Joffe-Ellis: Psychologist, Adjunct Professor at Columbia University Karen Smith: Forensics Expert, Bare Bones Consulting  Melanie Barden: KEYE CBS Austin Reporter Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. A distraught fiance pleading for the return of his two-week-old baby girl Margot and her mother, Heidi Broussard, who seemingly vanishes when she drops her son at Cowan Elementary. No matter how hard we look, seemingly more questions arise than answers. Where is Heidi Broussard? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Just come home. we miss you. Shane Carey is pleading for help finding his newborn daughter Margo and her mother, Heidi Broussard.

This photo shows Broussard dropping off her son at school at around 7.30 Thursday morning. According to Austin Police, it was the last place she was seen. I went to work and I talked to 8 o'clock. And it's last time I talked to her. Shane says when he got back home from work at 2 Thursday, she and the baby were nowhere to be found. He tells us when his son school called asking for someone to pick up the boy,

he knew something wasn't right and I went picked up my son and then she wasn't home again so that's whenever I just called the police. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Let's kick it off with tip line 512-472-TIPS. 512-472-8477. You were just hearing KEYE CBS Austin reporter Melanie Barden speaking.

With me, an all-star panel, Bruce Johnson, owner, ISP Investigations, Master Sergeant, Region 1 Crime Scene Commander, Chicago. Hey, they've got a caseload about as heavy as Atlanta, inner city Atlanta. And let me tell you, this guy knows his way around a crime scene. Also with me, from Columbia University, psychologist Dr. Debbie Joffe Ellis, aka Bleeding Heart. Also with me, forensics expert, founder of Bare Bones Consulting. I've worked crime scenes with her before, Karen Smith, but right now, two investigative reporter at KEYE CBS Austin, Melanie Barden. Melanie, thank you so much for being with us.

Let's just start where every crime investigation should start. Now, granted, and Dr. Debbie is going to tell me this, I'm sure that, hey, maybe she just got fed up with the whole gig and left. Interesting. I'm going to have to question Dr. Debbie on this. I guess she was quite the hiker because she left her car behind. Melanie, let's just start with the morning. Heidi Broussard is 33 years old. Let's see, what was I doing when I was 33? Ah, I had already been 10 years in the Fulton County

District Attorney's Office. Let's see, maybe two years in and then heading for Court TV and a program with Johnny Cochran. This lady, Heidi, absolutely stunning, is missing. No clues. Melanie, let's backtrack to the morning she goes missing. What happened, Melanie? Barden, K-E-Y-E. So what we know is that the last time Heidi Broussard and Margo Carey were seen was Thursday morning at around 730. We know that they were seen because Austin police released a surveillance picture of Heidi at her son's elementary school.

She was dropping him off for the day. And then Austin police say they believe she went from the school back to her apartment. It's about a 10-minute drive. So that's what we know. And you're right. She seemingly vanished out of thin air. We do know that her daughter, her two-week-old newborn baby, Margo Carey, was with her when she dropped her son off. And she was with her when she went back to her apartment complex.

And that's all we know right now. You know, I want to go to Bruce Johnson, Master Sergeant, Crime Scene Commander, Chicago Metro Area. Bruce, there's one good thing, one good thing about what Melanie Barden just said, and that is that Heidi Broussard was spotted early in the morning the day she seemingly disappears because I've had so many investigations where I have the word of one person, oh, she left to go take our son to Cowan Elementary, but nobody sees them. So for all I know, the timeline could have started 14 hours earlier, the evening before at dinnertime or even beyond that at 3 o'clock when she picked the little boy up the day before. But we have a shred, a scintilla of evidence stating Heidi Broussard is alive that morning at 7 o'clock, dropping her son off at Cowan Elementary there in Austin.

And we can start our timeline from there. Bruce Johnson, why so important to establish a correct timeline at the get-go, Bruce? Well, because the first 24 hours are crucial in this type of situation. Obviously, that's really good news that they have proof of where she's at. Start off your timeline. That's going to help the investigation. You know, like you said, it narrows it down from what are we looking at, two days or a day, to we have an immediate time notification. Yes, Bruce Johnson, former commander, Chicago Metro. This rules out somebody breaking in the house in the middle of the night, someone jumping her when she goes out

to her car, maybe in her garage that morning, because that's what happened to Jennifer Dulos. We know she was just getting out of her car. And that is the crime scene there in Connecticut, because the garage is full of blood and her cell phone was still in her vehicle. So she never made it in, much like Dr. Teresa Seavers, who flew home from, once again, I think Connecticut the night before on a Sunday. We know she never made it past the kitchen. She lands. She still has on the stiletto heels and the clothes she traveled in. She has her roller board in the garage.

She walks in the kitchen. Somebody lying in wait, arranged by her husband. And bam, she's dead. So we know that didn't happen. This gives us a launch pad. So Karen Smith, forensics expert, founder, Bare Bones Consulting, joining me out of the Florida jurisdiction, Karen Smith. We've got the video. What does it tell me?

The video. The video from the school shows that she was wearing a long-sleeved purple shirt, and it gives an exact timeline. Now, what happened to her after that, I don't know. They are scouring for video from the apartment complex, from stoplights, from other businesses in the area. So all of that has to be scrutinized. That's hours and hours and hours. It's going to take manpower and resources. And unfortunately, all of those manpower and resources sucks away from actually trying to find Heidi Broussard. Of course, Karen Smith, you're right, as usual. But Dr. Debbie Jaffe-Ell course, Karen Smith, you're right, as usual. But Dr. Debbie Joffe Ellis, psychologist joining us from Columbia University,

that ain't shabby. Dr. Debbie, it tells me something else. Now, I'm no shrink. I'm just a JD. I'm just a trial lawyer. But it tells me everything was quasi-normal that morning because she had the baby Margot with her in the car, I think. I know that she got the boy, her son, to school on time. I believe the video shows her smiling. Her hair is done. She's got on this purple blouse. My point is, seemingly, from appearances, which can be deceiving,

everything was going on schedule that morning. That tells me something psychologically, Dr. Debbie. Well, I think the important word you mentioned is seemingly, and I think it's important, and you don't do this, but in general, for people not to presume to make definite conclusions until they have more evidence, four hypotheses came to my mind. The first one, something sinister happened, a kidnapping or some such thing. The second possibility,

that it was a voluntary planned departure despite her seeming to have a good life and a normal morning. Three, that she was unhappy in her life and wanted to escape. And four, and hopefully it wasn't this, or the first hypothesis, that there was some malady there, that she may have been gripped by depression hold on dr debbie dr debbie yeah

i'm going to cut through your fantastic psychoanalyst some analyzum have you ever been to a kid's book fair have you ever been to a kid's book fair i Have you ever been to a kid's book fair? I've been to book fairs. Okay, so a kid's book fair is at the school. I've been to so many, I can't count them, and they're a big event. So I find it very curious. She goes to the book fair, and she buys books for her seven-year-old little boy. Why? So she could just leave town and never read them? Uh-uh. Right there, behavioral evidence tells me she did not just disappear on her own for a seemingly better life. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Shane says nothing in their apartment was out of place. Her car.

Everything is at the house. Everything the baby stuff, everything and nothing's gone except for the baby. CBS Austin reached out to several friends and family members Friday. Broussard's coworkers at Cracker Barrel in Buda say she'd been off work since having her baby. Austin police are asking anyone with

information on the disappearances to call 9-1-1. If you see an awesome mom with a baby walking around or in a suspicious van or car or anything that looks suspicious, just please give somebody a call. Distraught fiance pleading for the return of his three-week-old baby girl, Margo, and the love of his life, 33-year-old Heidi Broussard. I was in a heated argument with Dr. Debbie Jaffe-Ellis about children's book fairs there at Cowan Elementary to Melanie Barden, reporter, KEYE-CBS Austin. Melanie, I'm trying to figure out what happened at the book fair, if we know she bought anything.

And I know her vehicle was back home, which tells me she made it home from school as normal. Right, and often police have said that they believe that she did make it home. As far as the book fair, we know from Shane speaking to us that he says she called him at around eight o'clock saying that she had just finished up at the book fair at the school and that she bought a few books for their little boy. And he says. You know, I want to go to Dr. Debbie Jaffe-Ellis, psychologist joining us from Columbia University. Dr. Debbie,

I was stunned the night that I learned the number one cause of death amongst pregnant women is homicide. I would never have guessed that. I would have guessed heart failure or childbirth, but no, it's homicide. And that's from the New England Journal of Medicine. And I certainly am not credentialed to argue with them. What is so stressful about a pregnancy or a new birth, Dr. Debbie? Why does it throw the whole relationship off the rails? Well, there's the biological component, Nancy, which is part of the well-known postpartum depression that many people go through.

And then additionally, there can be stressors in life that were there before the pregnancy, but that can feel more extreme. And pressure coupled with any biologicalpped by depression that led to her disappearing. Again, I don't believe that with any strong conviction, but it's a possibility. And even though it appeared she had a very normal morning, you know, moods can change on a dime. We don't know. Again, this is just a hypothesis, and I hope it's not true. And I'm hoping that investigators would be asking friends, were there times she seemed down and depressed? Just to rule that out, the possibility of depression, hopefully no suicidal ideation.

Well, I hope you're right, too. I hope that she is just away. Yeah. But I don't feel that in my bones. And according to the fiance, she was happy when she called that morning around 8 a.m. back to Melanie Barden, reporter KEYE CBS Austin. Melanie, again, thank you for being with us at a time when everything's going crazy, I'm sure, in the newsroom. What we know so far, Austin police continuing their search for Heidi Broussard and her three-week-old baby girl, Margo Carey. Last seen, 7.30 a.m., dropping Heidi's son off Cowan Elementary, South Austin.

The Austin PD says Heidi's believed to have driven back to her apartment complex off West William Cannon Drive. Now, CBS spoke with Heidi's fiancé, Margo's dad, Shane Carey. He says he spoke with Heidi on the phone 8 a.m. that morning while he's at work, that she had just dropped off their son and bought books from the school book fair. Now, let me understand something. He gets home from work 2 p.m. I want to know where he works. And he says

Margo wasn't there and Heidi wasn't there. Her car, everything at the house, baby stuff, everything, nothing's gone except for her and the baby. The school calls asking for somebody to come pick up the boy. Well, he knew something was wrong then. And that's at 3-ish, I assume. Let me understand something. Was it really 7.30 before he called police, Melanie Barden? Yes, he says that he ended up calling police just after 7. And so he tells us he gets home from work. He says he works for a moving company.

And he gets home at 2 o'clock to their apartment. And just like you said, the car was there. He says everything was put as if they had never even left. The only things missing were Heidi and Margo. And so he says that they have another friend in the apartment complex and he figures Heidi could have taken the baby and walked over to the friend's apartment. And so until he did get the call from the school, he picked up his son. He says when he did get the call from the school, he picked up his son. He says when he got back and they both still weren't there,

he started calling her friends. He says he called his dad. And then, yes, at around 7 o'clock, that's when he called police. Take a listen to Fox 7's Shannon Ryan's interview with the fiancé fiance Shane Carey. And ever since then, it's just been trying to reach out, just help. I don't know. She's a great mom.

She needs to be back. So the last time you heard from her was around 8.30? Yeah, 8.00, probably before then, like 8.15, I would say. And you called the cops around 7.00, right? Yeah, 7.00-ish, I think it was like 7.15 or 7.30 maybe, something like that. And just tell me a little bit about Heidi and Marga. They're amazing. They're beautiful, loving, loves everybody. She has the

best group of friends. Margo is the sweetest. She's only two, three weeks old. And she has the cutest little pucker lips, gorgeous little baby, and we to bruce johnson owner isp investigations bruce johnson why the time lag he gets home at two doesn't call police until 7 15 or 7 30 right that's a that's a when he gets home at about two o'clock everybody is saying that the doors are open now so this is an apartment complex and the apartment door is standing open. That in and of itself is kind of odd. Very odd. And then other items are there. Very odd indeed.

Take a listen to our friend Shannon Ryan. Car keys, apartment, mailbox. It's like a set of keys. Yeah. Weird. Yes. And she never leaves the car door unlocked. But, I mean, she does have a three-year-old baby, so I don't know.

But she would not leave the car door unlocked. I'm a big pusher on that. I push her to lock everything. That is the fiancé. To Melanie Martin joining us, reporter KEYE CBS Austin on this case from the beginning. Melanie, what about the car door? Was anything else left ajar? Right.

So he said that the car was unlocked. So it's kind of unclear if he's saying it was open, it was left ajar, or if it was just unlocked. And as far as the apartment door being unlocked, what he told us when we interviewed him was that nothing was different whatsoever at his apartment complex. And he did say in other interviews that everything was the same except for the cell phone, the car keys, and the car door. So he never really made it clear about the front door of the apartment complex. But as far as, you know, looking at all of his interviews across all the stations, it looks like what he has said is that the cell phones and the car keys are the only things that are missing. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

I wake up first because I have to go to work first. And then I do my morning routine, do everything. They start waking up around 6.30. So I start waking them up, give them kisses goodbye. Have a good day at school, and then she starts making their sandwiches, and so I went to work, she took Margo with Silas, she dropped them off at school to the book fair, and after the book fair, she called me around 8-something on her way home from the book fair. She said she spent $25. I was like, that's okay.

And I told her I have to go because I was on my way out. And I told her I love you. Bye. You are hearing Shane Carey speaking to Shannon Ryan. And with me right now, special guest Melanie Barden, reporter at KEYE CBS Austin. Melanie, you told me that the cell phone, the car keys, and the car door were things that stand out in your mind, red flags. What about the car keys? What about the cell phone? What can you tell me about them? Right, so Shane Carey has said consistently that when he got back home from work, the apartment was left as it always had been. He

said that the baby's car seat was inside the apartment he said the baby's diaper bag was inside the apartment and he said there were no signs of any struggle but he says the only things that were missing were Heidi's cell phone and her car keys and he says that her car door which again was still at the apartment complex, was open. Okay, you just told me something I didn't know. Melanie Barden, a reporter at KEYE. I just learned something. Karen Smith, forensics expert, founder of Beer Bones Consulting. The car seat was inside.

That just told me something. That tells me that she was not accosted at the car. And that she was the one that drove that car home because the car seat had been taken out of the car and brought in. In fact, typically they're so cumbersome, I would leave them in the car very often and just take the twins in my two arms and carry them out to the car instead of dragging the car seat in and out. So that's a very cumbersome thing, or at least it was for me. So we know that only a mom would have done that, would have brought the car seat in with the baby. She was with the baby last,

is what I'm saying. Maybe the dad does it too in that family. My husband did. But what I'm saying is she had the baby in the car and she brings the car seat in. That tells me she made it into the home. She was not attacked in the front yard. Nobody carjacked her. Nobody followed her home and grabbed her when she was getting out of the car. She came in the home.

That's a big clue, Karen Smith. You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. Car seats are cumbersome. I used to have to install them when I was with the sheriff's office for people. We would give them away and we would have to install them. They are very difficult to install and uninstall. And most people do just leave them in the car because of that. You grab the child and you carry them in your arms like you used to. What that really also tells me, Nancy, is that I don't want to go down this path yet,

but if somebody is going to accost a woman, a baby becomes very cumbersome for somebody on the outside to take both of them, to take both of them from the apartment. And I don't want to go down that path yet, but that's something to think about. A two-week-old baby is a lot of responsibility if you're going to take both of them. You know, Bruce Johnson, owner of ISP Investigations, former master sergeant in Chicago. Bruce Johnson, that tells me something else. Just talking to Karen Smith, and this is something I used to love to do with my district attorney colleagues and police taking one piece of evidence and just squeezing it for every bit of evidence I could get out of it from every bit of indicators about what happened think about what Karen Smith just said Bruce Johnson who would take Heidi Broussard and baby Margo, three weeks old.

And this tells me that the mom, Heidi Broussard, if she wanted a big escape, why would she take the baby? If she's trying to get away from her life, why would she take the baby without the car seat, Bruce Johnson? Well, that's a very good point. I mean, the other thing regarding that issue that you were previously talking about is no signs of a struggle, no yelling, no screaming, doors are left open. There's a long timeframe from the time that he gets back to the house, somewhere went to uh preschool to pick up his other son and i don't know you guys haven't talked about this yet but you know that he has a son he has custody of the son from a previous marriage so that's definitely something that you want to look at

and look at that woman's history her boyfriend's history uh all of those things maybe well what you're talking about the six-year-old son, Silas, birth mom. He has two children with Heidi, the infant and the son, a boy. And then he has his, he has full custody of the boy from a previous marriage. So wait, so there, let me understand this. Melanie Barden reporter, K E Y E CBS Austin. How many children are in this family dynamic?

So we know that there are three kids and that Heidi's children with Shane are the boy, Silas, as well as Margo, the newborn baby. Shane has said that he does have a daughter from a previous marriage, but he does not in any of his interviews mention her whereabouts during all of this. Well, you're right, Melanie Barton, and Bruce Johnson is right in that when there's another child involved or a family, gosh, not confusion, but connection or ongoing issue, you have to look at that. He's right. But from what I'm getting from Melanie, it sounds like the third child who would be older, I guess, is not in this family home. Take a listen to this. Obviously, there's a lot of scrutiny on you. I mean, I imagine that's going to be tough. You're going through this absolute nightmare. Yes.

And then people obviously have to check you off. Yes. That's going to be really difficult. Yeah. It's like I don't like I just pretty much ignore that. I don't know how to handle it. But I know it's a question. But I mean, I don't I don't know. Like, I don't know how to I just ignore it because I know it's not true. It's negative. So I don't want to, yeah.

We're trying to be positive and find her. That is fiancé Shane Carey speaking to reporter Shannon Ryan. Straight out to Melanie Barden, KUYE CBS Austin. There's been a lot of scrutiny rained down on the fiancé. What are the comments? What are the observations of his statements? Yeah, there's a whole Facebook group and pages of people's, you know, different theories about what happened. Of course, a big focal point is Shane Carey and these interviews he's done.

And I think part of that is the fact that he is Heidi's fiance. I think another part of it is because he's really the only other person who has talked to us other than police. He's the only other person that we've heard from that saw her that morning. And so, you know, people are really going after what he's saying or really picking apart, you know, every decision that he made that morning. And they're really coming up with their own theories about what all of this means. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I don't know. Like, the smallest little baby, she's only seven pounds, so a teeny tiny lovable baby. Keeps it warm at night.

Margo's not your only child with Heidi, right? No, I have a six-year-old boy named Silas, which is amazing, greatest sports, great baseball player. Does karate. Beautiful little kid as well. So fun. Very intelligent. Loving. Just like his mom. He needs his mom back. Guys, okay, call me crazy. Call me a sap. But he sounds sincere to me. He does. He does. I mean, of course I'm comparing him to the worst of the worst, like Scott Peterson and all the other dads, like Drew Peterson, Scott Peterson, that give

these statements that just ring hollow. This guy's crying, talking about Heidi Broussard as beautiful as loving the mother of his children. This is what we know. She goes missing, Heidi Broussard, at an early morning. Tip line 512-472-8477. 472 tips. This is another fact I'm just learning. According to a friend, Caressa Rochelle Nolte, Heidi went to the book fair that day, 8 a.m., and then her fiancé tried to call her at 12 noon, and it went to voicemail like it was dead, like it was dead. Now, we're learning through Carissa Rochelle Nolte that it was 6 o'clock the school called, and that Heidi had not shown up. What's significant to me right there is that he says he, the fiancé, called her at 12 noon, and the call was already going to voicemail, as if the phone was dead.

To Bruce Johnson, ISP Investigations, what does that mean to you? Well, the phone was already dead, and he got home at 2 o'clock. So he's calling at 12. He gets home at two. If you get home at two o'clock, doors are open. All of our belongings are there. He waited to call, you know, the police till 730. He said that he went running around. He went to the daycare to pick up one of his other children. That was around six o'clock p.m. But there's four hours from two to six, and there's six hours from 12 to six. You know, those are large gaps that you would be panicking, you know, calling the police sooner than what he did at 7.30. Yeah, yeah. Let's shore up that timeline. Melanie Barden, K-E-Y-E, number one, relevant information. Fiance says he called her 12 noon. It goes straight to voicemail like it's dead. And you can tell.

You barely ring, and then it goes straight to voicemail. So, Melanie, did the school call around 6 p.m.? Because what this is telling me is we've got a tighter timeline, and this is important. She goes missing. Now we've got it tighter timeline and this is important. She goes missing, now we've got it down to four hours between 8 and 12, if we can count on that phone going to voicemail timeline. What about it, Melanie? What time did the school call? Well, I understand that he has said that the school called at around six o'clock saying that he needed to come pick up the boy and it's when he went to go pick up his son and came back.

Now, keep in mind, the apartment complex is only about 10 minutes from the school. So it's not going to take him very long to go pick up his son and come back. And it's when he came back that he called police, which was around 730. That is making a little more sense to me. I'm also learning that he thought she may be visiting somebody within the apartment complex because her car was there everything was there and so she would have to be on foot we also know that he shane proposed to her in november and that's according to what broussard herself posted on Facebook.

What else do we know? We know that Broussard's family has come all the way from Louisiana to help search for her. Tammy Broussard called in to KXAN and said she was en route from Louisiana to Texas to help with the search. She's originally from Lake Charles, Louisiana. That's what we've learned. She and Carrie have also lived in Kyle, Texas. She had a steady job going. She's been working at the same Cracker Barrel since 2015. And the family, Broussard's family, is begging for prayers and help finding Heidi. It's very clear that the fiance says she would never have left Silas alone. She would never have just left him at school. And that's where something called routine evidence comes in. To Dr. Debbie Jaffe Ellis joining us, psychologist, she never missed picking up her children. I think that's very important, a very key factor here, Dr. Debbie. It certainly is. And again, it either comes down to something sinister, a choice she's made,

or that she was gripped with depression and was suffering some emotional state that most people around her didn't realize. And that's not uncommon, Nancy. You know, you're back on the postpartum depression thing, and Dr. Debbie, how I appreciate you, but it's not factoring in with the evidence as far as I am concerned, Karen Smith. You're right. Listen, investigations follow the evidence to the suspect in most cases, but in cases like this, you have to start with those closest to the people that are missing. So if Shane's alibi and his whereabouts can hold up to some very intense scrutiny, there are other avenues to go down. Take a listen to the latest from the fiance, Shane Carey.

And I know the cops and the investigators are doing their job. They're doing a great job. I just want to do more. It feels like we could do more. And that's where everyone comes in. This is a group. Let's all do it together. And just, I mean, so talk about, you know, the way that the car was left, the way that the home was left. Everything was like she was home. I mean, that's why I thought she was at her friend's house. Like she walked to the apartment complex.

The car seat's upstairs. Her purse is upstairs. Her ID wallet. There's no signs of her taking the baby. And she would never leave her car door unlocked. Her car door is unlocked. So that's a weird sign. So I don't know anything about that. And her purse is inside her car with all the money still inside of it.

Her ID, her cards cards her full purse it's just the only thing gone is her the baby her keys and her cell phone which has been off since i tried to call her at 140. that from fox 7 but we also know that the three books bought at the book fair were in the apartment when the fiance gets home. Only cell phone missing and it's been turned off. Car seat also inside the apartment. Now back to you, Karen Smith, forensics expert, Beer Bugs Consulting. What were you saying? I have a little laundry list of things that were bothering me as an investigator. One of the things is, did Heidi leave a note that she was going to be gone at this friend's house so that people didn't worry about her? Okay, answer, answer, no.

Next. Right. So, okay, so if he thinks that she walked over to a friend's house, why not traipse on over there to see if she's there? That's a question that I had. He did. Second answer, he did. Next. Third question.

Who saw him at work? Were there any witnesses that saw him at work and can place him at work for that time period? He works for a moving company. Hold on. Let's throw that to Melanie Barden, K-U-I-E. He works at Unicorn Moving. If nobody can place him there, he can certainly have his phone triangulated. What do we know, Melanie?

Yeah, as far as confirming where he was that morning, Police have not talked about it whatsoever. Police have given us very limited information and they have not even touched the subject of where Shane Carey was that day. Anything else? Karen Smith? Yeah. If he works for a moving company, I would put money on the fact that those moving vans have tracking devices on them so they can track his movements throughout the day. Did he go back to the apartment complex in the moving van? Was he working with another partner at that point? All of these questions, I'm not trying to hamstring anyone, but these are questions that investigators have to ask as difficult as they are. We are waiting as justice unfolds. Tip line 512-472-TIPS, 512-472-8477. Let's pray for a Christmas miracle. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye,

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