Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Beautiful Mom of Three's Body Found Behind Abandoned Barn, Who Killed Joanna Speaks ?

Episode Date: April 27, 2023

It’s a Saturday afternoon around 6 p.m. in early April. Ridgefield police department receive a call about a body, discovered on an abandoned property.  Police say not only were there signs that a homicide had occurred but "there are indications the body was moved." The body of Joanna Speaks, a mom of three, is identified. The medical examiner’s office confirms that the cause of Speaks' death was "blunt head and neck injuries." So far there are no suspects.  Joining Nancy Grace today: Robyn Speaks- Victim’s Sister- https://www.gofundme.com/f/joanna-kyrstin-may-speaks Ariel Hamby- Victim’s Stepsister Jarrett Ferentino- Homicide Prosecutor in Pennsylvania; Facebook & Instagram: Jarrett Ferentino  Dr. John Delatorre -  Licensed Psychologist and Mediator (specializing in forensic psychology); Psychological Consultant to Project Absentis: a nonprofit organization that searches for missing persons; Twitter, IG, and TikTok - @drjohndelatorre  Irv Brandt - Senior Inspector, US Marshals Service International Investigations Branch; Chief Inspector, DOJ Office of International Affairs; Author: “SOLO SHOT: CURSE OF THE BLUE STONE AVAILABLE ON AMAZON; Twitter: @JackSoloAuthor Dr. Maneesha Pandey - Chief Forensic Pathologist for Forensic Pathologists LLC in Ohio, Board Certified Forensic Pathologist Annette Newel - KXL News, Host, "Speaking Freely with Annette Newell," Alpha Media USA (based in Portland, Oregon); Twitter: @AnnetteNewell16  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A body of a young woman found outside of a barn. Why? Is that the primary, the secondary, the tertiary crime scene? Why was she killed? Who is she? Will she forever be a Jane Doe? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. First of all, I want you to take a listen to our friends at KOIN. Officials in southwest Washington are working to identify a body found in an abandoned property in Ridgefield on Saturday night.

Police and fire crews discovered the body near South 5th and 78th Place, near the family dollar store. Clark County and Vancouver officials were also called in to investigate. No word yet on a cause of death or identity. We'll update you as we learn more. Well, there's so much about that statement from our friends at KOIN. We learn a lot, but there's big gaping holes in that. We've got an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now about the body of this woman found in this remote area. But first I want to go to Annette Newell, KXL News host,

speaking freely with Annette Newell. Annette, thank you for being with us. When they say, they just state that police and fire crews discover a body at South 5th and 78th Place. I doubt very seriously that the fire department happened to be just strolling by an abandoned barn. So this had to come from a tip of some sort. Yeah, there was a tip. Somebody called in a tip and the local fire department went out there and they discovered a body. And since then, the medical examiner found out this

person died from blunt force trauma to her head and neck. Oh, I want to talk about the shock of just suddenly discovering a dead body. With me is Jarrett Fiorentino, high-profile homicide prosecutor, joining us out of Pennsylvania. Jarrett, I've dealt with so many witnesses that come upon a dead body, a body, and it's something they never get over. And we often hear about a jogger was out and finds a body. Or here's a good example. In the case of Lacey Peterson and her unborn baby, Connor, a guy, a person was out walking their dog along the beach and there they find Lacey's body on the beach within 24 hours. The baby's body looking like a little plastic baby doll, perfectly pristine, while Lacey had been largely decomposed.

It's a shock that witnesses really never get over that aren't used to seeing dead bodies, Jarrett. They don't. And oftentimes, Nancy, that's where the story begins with the discovery of the body. You know, certainly that's often the first witness I call in many of the homicide cases I've had. And it's a human interest component to the cases, too. What was that particular individual doing in a particular field? Or what was that person's connection to the barn, for example, in this particular case? Obviously, also, you're looking at does the person that discovered the body have any connection to the deceased or any criminal activity?

So really, it kicks off what is a large scale investigation at any point. And, you know, I know why a lot of people don't want to get involved, because the person that finds a body immediately comes under suspicion. I mean, here's a good example. Take a look at Alex Murdoch. Just got convicted in the double murder of his wife Maggie and his son Paul. And the reality is, of course, he's the murderer, which is one reason why the person who discovers the body is very often regarded as a suspect, whether the police say it or not, because so often that is the killer.

And that's true. That's true. I think there has to be an examination of that particular person's tie to the region. Why were they there? Was it truly an innocent circumstance? And it's just part of the investigation. If you remember, Nancy, certainly with Casey Anthony, when the body was discovered, they were trying to lay blame or examine why that particular individual was walking in that area of the woods. Wasn't it Roy Cronk or ray cronk who was um that's

correct worked with either the electrical or the telephone or the gas company and was out routinely and notices something white in a swampy area and he had called cops and then i guess weeks later goes back and it's still there and he listen, you need to come out here. I called you a month ago, and sure enough, it was Roy Cronk. And they come, and it is in fact little Kelly's body. And he did come under suspicion, and that was used against him at the trial of the real killer, top mom Casey Anthony. It's a really good example. To Dr. John Delatore joining us, licensed psychologist, mediator, who specializes in forensic psychology.

You can find him on TikTok at Dr. John Delatore. Dr. Delatore, it's something that really haunts witnesses from that time forward. Not only are they not put it out there, they don't publicize it, an immediate suspect, but it's out of anything typically that they've ever seen. They've never seen a dead body, much less someone that has been murdered in this brutal manner. And it's so out of the ordinary that a lot of times they carry that with them the rest of their lives. They can't really get over what they found. Oh, absolutely. It also depends on the state of decomposition, right? How is the body positioned?

What else is going on, right? Have animals gotten to it? Have insects gotten to it, right? Has the body been burned, right? All these other things that could have happened to the body that led to that victim's death is there and witnessed. And you can smell it. You can see it. You can potentially feel it. There's all so much that leads to a flashbulb memory that any time that you're just kind of in your own quiet mind can absolutely snap back into your head and trigger you back to those heightened emotions, those heightened anxiety and nervousness. That happened when you first saw that dead body. to your head and trigger you back into those heightened emotions, those heightened anxiety and nervousness, right? That happened when you first saw that dead body. When I first started prosecuting, and I'm sure that Jarrett Fiorentino will appreciate this story, my cases were largely innocuous to start with, an attempted shoplifting, a dyslexic bank robber, the oldest woman in Fulton County history to be prosecuted for grand larceny.

Then I started getting murder cases and I had a recurring dream after talking to so many witnesses that discovered dead bodies of me. And it seems like I was in an airport, but I was in somewhere where there was a bathroom and I went into the ladies room and there were a lot of stalls. I opened one up and there's a dead body there. actually still have that dream I still have that dream and it started when I would interview witnesses that discover a dead body and they're grappling with what they've seen and trying to describe it take a listen our friends at crime online it's a Saturday afternoon around 6 p.m. early April when Ridgefield Police Department receive a call about a body. The body was discovered near a rundown barn on an abandoned

property. Officers from the Ridgefield Police Department and crews from the Clark Cowlitz Fire Rescue respond. When it's obvious that the death is not a natural one, two other calls go out, one to the Clark County Sheriff's's office major crimes unit and to a similar unit headed by vancouver police not only were there signs that a homicide had occurred there are indications the body was moved i'm learning a lot irv brand joining me senior inspector u.s marshal service international investigations was with doj department of justice author of solo shot curse of the blue stone of Solo Shot, Curse of the Blue Stone on Amazon, and Flying Solo, Top of the World, also on Amazon.

Irv, thank you for being with us. Just from what I've learned from, of course, Annette Newell from KXL, but from our friends at Crime Online, did you hear this? A run-down barn on an abandoned property what does that tell me that this was not a a person who was just passing through town that did this you had to know where to go out in the country to a remote farm that was uninhabited and a run-down barn that tells me a lot about who our purpose is going to be that's true nancy and uh using that to identify potential suspects is going to be key a location like that a rural location

you know there's not ring door cameras you know there's not uh cams, things like that that could, you know, put you at that location. Now, hold your horses, Irv Brandt. I know you're the one that's been with DOJ and the U.S. Marshal Service and blah, blah, blah, blah. But us country folks know about ring doorbell cams okay we have the internet we can go to amazon as a matter of fact of mr erv brandt uh to the case of alex murdoch remember after he shot his wife and son and was still on the loose nobody was calling him a killer he then goes and arranges to get shot in the head unsuccessful that was a big fat lie. Out in the middle of nowhere, as you describe it, Irv Brandt.

And at that time, I, we here at Crime Story said, I bet you anything at the end of that dirt road is somebody's house that has a security camera. And lo and behold, there was a country church at the end of that dirt road

that had a camera. And guess what? They caught the few cars, the very few cars going up and down that road. And bam, case solved. Irv Brandt. Well, you're right. Maybe Fred Flintstone should come into the 21st century and realize this. It's true.

But the houses are few and far between. And certainly an abandoned house and an abandoned farm is not going to have a ring doorbell cam. That was my point. It seems like someone that was intentional, an abandoned place,

a run down place, someplace to dump a body. I'm really surprised they did not put her body in the barn. The barn must have been, even though it was dilapidated, secured so you couldn't get in there. Have you thought of that, Irv Brant? Yes, that's true.

But you don't know what may have been happening at the time. You don't know how rushed those people may have been or persons uh dumping a body could be in a very you know agitated state uh and not really thinking clearly like you just thought it through they may have been just trying to get a body out of a car then get out of there as quickly as they can yeah you're right erv. Again, nobody wants to be caught with a dead body. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Dr. Manisha Pandey joining me, Chief Forensic Pathologist for Forensic Pathologist LLC

in Ohio. You can find Dr. Pandey at theforensicpathologist.com. Dr. Pandey, we heard right at the get-go from Annette Newell, KXL, that she learned the COD, while not complete, was a head injury. How can you look at a body, even if on the front of the body you don't see an injury, how can you tell immediately by looking at the body that the woman is dead from a bludgeoning death? So the most important thing when you find the body is like what's going on, right? So in this particular case, most likely there was probably blood around the head. Because if you have head trauma, you're going to start bleeding from the scalp. The scalp is very, very vascular.

It has a lot of blood vessels and there's probably lots of blood around it. And that's why they're immediately thinking there's blood post-trauma to the head. You know, I'm thinking through what you're saying. How do you know, Dr. Pandy, how would they know? What would they have seen to say this is a homicide, bludgeoning to the head, before they complete the full autopsy? And how do they know that this unidentified Jane Doe didn't fall and hit her head? How would they know the difference between falling on a rock or a tractor or a farm implement and dying? How do they know that didn't happen as opposed to a bludgeoning death?

So there's probably more trauma than just the falls. If you're falling, you'll just have trauma to one side of the head. Here we are looking at a body. First of all, it's in a very remote location, which is finding a body right there. It's suspicious. So you're already thinking of homicide on the get-go. And then you have all this, probably the person had lots of areas where there was bleeding. There were probably multiple points. So they're looking at that. And for you to fall down the steps is a separate thing.

You can have more injury. But here's this flat land in which you find a body with multiple areas of bleeding or blood or, you know, clots everywhere. So they're thinking immediately, oh, this person's probably being hit with something. And I guess the wound, there's a big difference. But, I mean, there's nothing for her to fall from. She's not like on a second or third floor. So she's on the ground. I mean, if you're talking about a fall and she stumbles or falls and hits her head or has impact, You know, like a skiing accident, like Natasha Richardson, Liam Nilsen's wife,

she had a ski accident. She hit her head once and she died later from bleeding to the brain. That impact is much different. When you look at it, you don't really see much as opposed to she fell or stumbled and hit her head on so let's just pretend a farm implement and it caused a concussion and she died or it caused her death that's one wound as opposed to a bludgeoning so hard to

the head like for instance you could see the brain from a bludgeoning those two injuries to the naked eye look very different a bludgeoning. Those two injuries to the naked eye look very different. A bludgeoning versus a death from a fall. That's correct. Guys, and to make matters worse and more difficult to determine COD and anything else about this case,

we learned this may not have been the primary crime scene. Let's do our forensic. K-O-I-N. Clark County officials say a body found in Ridgefield was found near an abandoned barn across from the Family Dollar east of I-5. The Sheriff's Office says early indications show the body was moved there. Detectives are looking for people who were in contact with Speaks or anyone who saw any suspicious vehicles

or people in that area. You are asked to contact the Clark County Sheriff's Office if you have information. Got a big question. How can you tell? And I'm going to throw this out to Jarrett Fiorentino, but everybody jump on in with an idea. Again, this is not high tea but i want to talk about how you can tell a body has been moved what about it jared jared ferentino well nancy i've had some experience in this regard and there were tire tracks leading up to the dump site that is typically something uh the fact that there was a dollar general across the way there there may be camera footage there that would show a vehicle quickly arriving and leaving across the street, which would suggest that. Also, the attendant circumstances around the body. If the body, if there wasn't any disturbed dirt

beyond the limited area where a body could be dumped, If you remember during the Murdoch trial, there was a lot of talk about the attendant area and the zone of where the bodies were found of what may have been happening. If you don't see a lot of disturbed area, it could be a dump and leave site. So those are the kind of things, again, we're speculating, but that would be present and allow for them to make that conclusion.

You know, another interesting thing to Dr. John Delatore, psychologist and mediator, I've noticed in a lot of murder cases that the perp will lay out the victim, stage them in a certain way, like maybe put a blanket over their body or a covering over their face. In the woods, I've seen killers put leaves and branches over the body or close the eyes of the victim, which indicates a certain degree of staging. Plus, we were hearing Dr. Manisha Pandey describe the bludgeoning. If there's not a lot of blood from the head wound right there, that would indicate, as Jackie pointed out, that the body had been moved.

Or maybe the clothes were disheveled, like the person had been dragged out of a car. So you've got the shirt not taken off, or the pants pulled upwards or downwards in some fashion, or to the side. I mean, you can look at the positioning of the body and what's around it. But what do you make, Dr. Delatore, of people that, for instance, cover up the face or close the eyes of the murder victim? Well, here's the thing is that I'm going to call it a compulsive type behavior, but other sort of serial killer aspects, they call it ritualism.

The idea is that there's something about how this body has now expired, right? The killer did something and now they need to do something in its place in order for the act to feel complete. Sometimes that might mean that they're burying the body. Now, people aren't going to spend the time to dig six feet down, but they can cover it up. So there's a sense of shame or guilt that is associated with having to have engaged in this behavior. So it's all relative to what the killer's motivation was and less about what the victim needed. Guys, I want you to take a listen to our friend paulina aguilar at fox 12. i'm on south fifth street just off i-5 off of pioneer street and right behind me is an abandoned barn now i

want you to know detectives don't think she was killed here police say this is where someone dumped her body as you can see it's closed off with private property signs and an abandoned home just a few yards away. But the barn is near where Clark County Sheriff's Office say the body was found. On April 8th, just before 6 p.m., Ridgefield Police and Clark Cowlitz Fire responded to this abandoned property and found dead near the barn. A medical examination ruled it a murderer, and Clark County sheriffs believe she was killed elsewhere, then moved to this location. But her killer has not been found. There's no way that she would have gone down without a fight.

So whoever did do this likely had injuries or something like that personally as well, like from her fighting back. Injuries to the perp, possibly scratches, bruises. Is that possible? This area, we don't know why, it's not where cops believe that this Jane Doe was murdered. Let's talk about what we know about the area and joining me right now, Annette Newell, KXL News and host of Speaking Freely with Annette Newell, Ridgefield, Washington. This is what I know that the population is around 10,000, a little more than 10,000. So it's a small population which reduces the number of potential suspects.

Annette Newell, what more can you tell me? It is a small, kind of a bedroom community for both the city of Vancouver, Washington, and also Portland, Oregon, which is the major metro area around it. It's very small. It's country. There's a lot of farm areas around there. It's also,. It's country. There's a lot of farm areas around there. It's also, there's wine country. You know, it's basically a very rural area. Well, this is how I first became acquainted with Ridgefield.

Ridgefield, Oregon was part of the Trail of Lewis and Clark. Yes. And when my children had to learn about Lewis and Clark we studied this and we actually retraced part of the steps you know of Lewis and Clark wow all the way to Missouri and they get the great confluence where they went with their guide the female guide we know that there's a huge wildlife refuge there the Ridgefield National Wildlife Refuge. And I was researching it for a day and I found out the

creator of U-Haul is from Ridgefield. So, long story short, it's a small town which, my point is, Irv Brandt, that greatly reduces the number of suspects. That's correct, Nancy. The areas that a body is located at is definitely, at the start of the investigation, going to

be a major factor. And then the shocking identification. She is no longer a Jane Doe take a listen to our friend Daisy Caballero KGW just why just how like why did this happen how it doesn't make sense Robin speaks is desperately searching for answers after her younger sister 32 year oldyear-old Joanna Speaks, was found murdered. We're all just asking every single thing that you could think of. Just, you know, maybe it was this or did we check here or we're trying to cover all the bases, but we don't know. Stepsister Ariel Hamby says the family has so many questions. The cause of death was blunt force trauma to the head and

neck and that's all we know. Joining us right now two very special guests. Joanna speaks is sisters Robin speaks and stepsister Ariel Hamby. Robin and Ariel thank you for being with us. Thank you for having us. Robin, when did you realize that your sister, the mother of three, Joanna, was missing? And or when did you learn she is a homicide victim? We got the call on the 11th. After they identified her, they called our dad and then he told all of us that morning that she had been killed. Ariel Hamby, when did you learn that your sister Joanna had been murdered? April 11th, I got the phone call from my stepdad while I was putting my three-year-old daughter down for a nap. Having gotten that horrible news myself,

it is a moment that even now, years later, still I don't like talking about it. I talk about it to help other crime victims. But even now, just talking about it, I feel it in my stomach. When I learned over the phone, my fiance had been murdered shortly before our wedding. And even now it feels, Robin speaks, like it happened yesterday.

Well, I honestly don't even know. I was working and I was just about to leave for a pretty important lunch meeting. And my little brother actually is the one that called me and he just sounded so shaken up about it. And he honestly thought it was a joke and just hearing about it while at work and having to keep a cool composure and handle a lunch that I couldn't really get out of.

It was very, very difficult. And I don't think that I'll ever forget the phone call and, you know, how it made me feel in the moment. But then I didn't get to deal with it until afterwards. Ariel, what about you? Um, like Robin said, it felt like a joke. And my response was, this is not funny so it was just I was in disbelief and it's really hard to describe that feeling I'm sure as you know Nancy so it's just something that I'll never forget you know I'm hearing Robin Speaks and Errol Hamby describe learning when their sister was murdered. Dr. John Delatore, licensed psychologist specializing in forensic psychology.

Did you notice that both of these young ladies, these two sisters, at first thought it was a joke. Now, I'm not a shrink like you. I'm just a JD. But I think that's because you want to believe it's a joke, a horrible joke, a bad joke. Your mind can't take in what's happening. Because I remember for a long time after Keith was murdered, I would get my mom or my dad and I'd look at him and say, Is Keith dead? It just seems so impossible and fantastical.

They'd have to tell me, yes, he's dead. He was killed. And I'd go, okay. And then, you know, the next day, I'd do. He was killed. And I go, okay. And then, you know, the next day, I do the same thing again. What is that? There's got to be a psychological reason for wanting to believe or believing it's a joke

or a bad prank or a lie when you first hear it. It's not just about the wanting, it's about the needing to believe that it's a joke, to be imagined, to have that family member right ripped away from you in such a way is almost incomprehensible now we have stages of grief but the reality is is that every individual grieves differently and it doesn't have to be a pattern it can be assorted and it can start from the end and uh with the beginning, that there is this sense, especially initially, that it has to be a joke because it cannot happen to you

because of the consequences associated with it. The realization that life ends is very difficult for people to wrap their hand around. Take a listen to our friends at Fox 12. Nothing is off the table as to what we're thinking could have happened. The family of Joanna Speaks is left shocked and speechless after getting a phone call that their 32-year-old sister from Oregon City was found near an abandoned barn in Ridgefield, Washington. A bunch of things went through our minds as to how this could have happened or did she put herself in a situation where she was vulnerable?

Or did someone else, you know, pick her to, I don't even know. And more in our cut eight. It's been really hard. Like, I don't think any of us are sleeping. A lot of our family is just blatantly, just devastated 24-7 and just not functioning. But that's not how her family will keep her memory.

She was the wild one of all of us. Yes, she was loud and vibrant. Like she would light up any room. So funny. Everything that she did was like go big or go home kind of attitude. And she was just one of a kind. It's so hard to take in that someone with such a big personality is now silenced forever. To Ariel Hamby, this is Joanna's sister. Ariel, tell me about her as a person. I would just say that she

really was just such a vibrant, like contagious person. She can make anybody laugh. And she was just somebody that you wanted to spend your time around. What about at Robin Speaks? She was always larger than life. She loved to be the laughing one at the party, the one that, you know, was the, she just loved to be the center and to make everybody else excited to be there. And remember, it's not just these two beautiful sisters joining us today. This victim lays behind three little children. Take a listen to our friends at KPTV. Joanna leaves behind three children.

They are resilient. And they broke down right away when I told them. Sorry. But I think right now they're just trying to stay occupied she had this like giggle and this laugh that um one of her sons has like it sounds just like her and just like echoes in her house a lot of my memories go to her just being a big kid with them her family will honor her life in an intimate ceremony full of color and music. She was cremated, so they'll be able to carry a piece of her with them.

How do you tell 7-year-old Melani or 12-year-old Braxton or 13-year-old Juan, Mommy's gone, but here's a piece of her. was cremated how do you tell that to children let's figure out how we can get justice for these children crime stories with nancy grace to robin speaks and ariel hammy which either of you can answer when was the last time that you spoke to her or heard from her by text our family family last had a contact with her the beginning to middle of March. Okay, beginning or middle of March. What about it, Robin? Is that correct? Yeah, she reached out to our parents. Okay, mid-March. Did she usually call or text? She would message us usually and not call. She called our dad often. Uh-huh. So do you know when was the last time she called your dad either

one of you that would be mid-15th yeah did you say march 15th march 15 and her body was found april the 8th so 30 days has september april june and november so we've got 16 days plus, 24 days. Interesting. I wonder if her cell phone was used or found. Remember, this young woman, now identified as 32-year-old Joanna Speaks, beautiful young woman with three children, found Ridgefield, Washington, April 8, blunt force trauma to head and neck, death, homicide. Annette Newell, do we know anything about her cell phone? That has not come up yet in terms of what the Clark County Sheriff's Office is saying to us at this point. I know that is definitely a point of contention in several um several other kind of similar murder cases in our area where you know unfortunately we've had like three in a row uh including this one where

young women young mothers have been killed okay well wait wait wait wait wait you've got three young women dead in the same area yeah in the port the Portland area, April Nicole Newcomb-Kreip died from a gunshot wound, and her death was ruled a homicide. She had two young children, 28 years old, and they have not arrested anyone in that case yet. And there was one other case of a woman, her name was Miche Melendez. She and her daughter, a seven-year-old daughter, Layla Stewart, were both killed by gunshot, and their bodies were found in Washougal, which is not too far from this other case in Ridgefield. So, in that case, they did charge an ex-boyfriend, Kirkland Warren. My guess is he's not connected because that sounds like a domestic homicide.

Yeah. And he would have been connected to that victim. But I'm very curious about the first victim you outlined. Now, two young dead women, both mothers of young children found murdered. Very, very curious. Yeah. Of course, the Clark County Sheriff's Office says that Joanna Speaks' case is being investigated as a homicide. Obviously, we know that much. But now, take a listen to this. Richfield Police Department and Clark Cowlitz Fire Rescue responded to reports of a body. Authorities say located on a property off South 5th Street and 78th Place, about one mile off I-5. Though detectives say it doesn't appear that's where Joanna was killed.

And according to the Clark County Sheriff's Office, there are indications that Joanna Speaks' body was moved to near this abandoned property. Behind these no trespassing signs, there's an abandoned barn. That's where the Sheriff's office found Joanna's remains. It keeps me up at night thinking that whoever did this to her and that person is walking around. To Annette Newell, Robin Speaks for Ariel Hamby. How far away is the location of the body from that Dollar Tree or Dollar General? How far away was that? I'm unsure. I haven't been able to bring myself to go up to that property. Yep, I understand that.

So what I'm getting at, Irv Brandt, is that if there's any indication that there is surveillance video with that Dollar Tree or Dollar General. That could be of help. And also the fact that if this body was moved, we know the perp has a vehicle. So if we could get even a make or model. I mean, that's how it all started in University of Idaho with the four students laying. It started with a white Elantra. And then the white Elantra was found nearby about nine miles away at Washington State University and then we get a tag and then

from the tag we get a name and then we find out about a connection and bam there's an arrest if we could get the car because nobody carried her on their back to this remote location. Somebody had to know about the location, ignore the no trespassing signs, and they may very well have had to, Irv Brandt, pass that Dollar Tree. Exactly, Nancy. I mean, that's going to, just like you laid out, when you start the investigation, you start building on investigations. Those are the first steps. You're going to go to any surveillance footage and try to look for suspicious vehicles or suspicious activity, then talk to people around that time frame of things that they may have

recalled. That's what the investigators are going to start with from the very beginning. Okay, let me think this through. So we're looking for a car. We're looking for someone, you know, very typically, Jarrett Fiorentino, the victim has some connection to the killer. They could be a boyfriend, an ex-boyfriend, an ex-husband, the grocery store boy, somebody you work with. That's where I would start this investigation. I agree. I think it's a matter of recreating Joanna's life, you know, from Middlemarch on.

If they were able to find her cell phone or not, the investigators can certainly secure her cell phone records and see who she was communicating with and when that communication stopped. And that is also something I think that would certainly be a purview into who Joanna was talking to, who she was in touch with, when, and that would certainly shed some light on who may know something or who may be involved. And we can also get a beat on when she died and we may be able to get some of that from the medical examiner to determine how long she had been decomposing because if we can establish a time of death or anywhere close to it we can begin looking for who she was with around the time of the death take a listen now to our cut 13 our friends at

kgw the family has started a GoFundMe to help with funeral expenses and as for finding justice for Joanna not a family that gives up and we won't give up fighting fighting answers doing whatever we have to to get some sort of peace for her and that we'll find them there is a gofundme you can find it under gofundme with joanna-kristin-may-speaks and this dollar tree we've been talking about it's actually a distribution center which means a lot of steady employees and surveillance cameras i'm looking at it online it says it's open 24 hours wow this family dollar distribution center is open that's very important so so if someone comes in the middle of the night yeah that distribution center is open right and if it is even close to where

the body was dumped that surveillance video could give us an answer thank you annette newell if you know or think you know anything about the death of this beautiful young mom of three please dial Please dial 564-397-2847. Repeat, 564-397-2847. Or go to justiceforjoanna at outlook.com. Let's give her children answers. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.