Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Beautiful Mom Shot Dead in Face, Hubby Aaron Pennington on Run

Episode Date: October 31, 2023

It's shortly after 9 a.m. on Sunday Morning: Kerri McDermott answers her door, finding her neighbor's children asking for help. They can't find Dad and Mom is crying in her bedroom. McDermott calls 911. Police find Breanne Pennington lying in her bed with a gunshot wound to the face. Three spent shell casings are near her body, but Aaron Pennington is gone. Investigators executed a search warrant for the Pennington home, as well as Aaron Pennington's cell phone. It was what was found on Aaron Pennington's cell phone that led a judge to issue a warrant for his arrest on murder. According to court documents, investigators found a note from Saturday evening, the night before his wife's body was found. The note said, "Don't say anything. Be quite [sic] If she wakes up just say you're getting nasal spray. Get on side of bed - very close proximity on bed. Put hole in her head." Pennington has yet to be found. Joining Nancy Grace Today: Kelsey McKay, J.D.- Former Prosecutor/Victims’ Rights Attorney, Founder of McKay Training & Consulting and Respond Against Violence (non-profit); IG& FB: Respond Against Violence Dr. Charles Heller – Clinical and Forensic Psychologist specializing in Domestic Violence, Chief Forensic Consultant, Rockland County (New York) Forensic Mental Health Unit, Forensic Psychologist, Rutgers Biomedical and Health Sciences  Cpl. David R. Thomas - Senior Law Enforcement Consultant, Intimate Partner Violence Expert Dawn Wilcox B.S.N., R.N.-  Femicide Expert, Researcher, Educator and Activist; Executive Director at Women Count USA: Femicide Accountability Project; FB, IG, & Twitter: @womencountusa   Leslie Morgan Steiner - Advocate and survivor, Author: “Crazy Love”- NY Times Bestseller; Twitter & IG: @lesliebooks   “Turtleman” Chris Adams - Swamp Survival Expert; Facebook: Wiregrass Ecological & Cultural Project/ TikTok: @GAturtleman  Rachel Louise Snyder - Journalist and Professor at American University; Author: “No Visible Bruises: What We Don’t Know About Domestic Violence Can Kill Us" and New Memoir (out now): “Women We Buried, Women We Burned;" Professor at American University; Twitter @ IG: rlswrites   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. As we go to air, Aaron Pennington on the run. Why? He's believed to be armed and dangerous after his wife, Breanne, found dead in the master bedroom of their home, dead from gunshot wounds to the face. This has been National Domestic Violence Awareness Month. So if we're so aware of domestic violence, why do women in particular keep dropping dead like flies from domestic violence? We're so aware that we can't seem to stop it. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories and on Sirius XM 111.

I'm thinking back, thinking back, thinking back, even to the time that I was prosecuting felonies in inner city Atlanta and working, manning the Better Women's Center hotline at night. No change. The death stats are still virtually the same. Why isn't the message cutting through? Well, let's just start with the case of Breanne Pennington. Breanne Pennington with four children ages two, five, 7, and 9. Why is she dead? Let's start at the beginning. Listen. At approximately 9.14 a.m. this morning, the Gardner police responded to 42 Cherry Street with regards to a disturbance.

Upon arrival, they entered the house at 42 Cherry Street and found a deceased person in the back of the house. Immediately, calls were made to the state police detectives assigned to the Worcester County District Attorney's Office. An investigation was begun. There were four children that were in the house who are currently in DCF custody. They had left the house and gone to the neighbor. We are currently looking for Aaron Peddington, 33 years old, six foot two, 175 pounds, blonde hair and blue eyes, and he is considered to be armed and dangerous. If anyone in the public does see him, we are asking that you contact the guy in the police

or the state police. He is driving a white BMW, model 320, there you are hearing the local district attorney speaking begging the public for help this guy Aaron Pennington has top secret clearance he is an Air Force specialist an engineer he has survival skills and he's on the run. A 33-year-old white male, 6'2", blonde, 175 pounds out of Gardner, Mass. What more do we know about this guy? We know that he's the father of four children, that he works with Raytheon Missiles and Defense and reportedly has, quote, active secret clearance. We also know he had an illegally owned firearm and there were three spent cartridges on the floor at the scene of the death of his wife. So we believe he has that weapon, which is a shotgun. Straight out to one of our all-star panelists, Rachel Louise Snyder, journalist and author of No Visible Bruises,

What We Don't Know About Domestic Violence Can Kill Us. That has just gone out. You can get it on Amazon. Rachel, thank you for being with us. What can you tell us about their relationship? Well, it follows a pretty similar pattern, which is that there's people, people are hearing, you know, fighting, that marriage is troubled, but also she wants to leave him. It's bad enough that she is going to take the kids to Texas. And this is always the most dangerous time when a victim is trying to leave. And we know this from the research. We also know that he had threatened

suicide. And that's one of the 20 highest risk indicators for domestic violence homicide. So you can start to put these pieces together and a picture emerges that is every bit as familiar as every domestic violence homicide that we see across this country. Rachel Louise Snyder is speaking, author of a new book, No Visible Bruises. Rachel, that's something I didn't know. Now, I've seen it anecdotally, I guess I knew it. But are you telling me when the batterer threatens suicide, that is a predictor of domestic abuse? It's one of 20 risk indicators, yes. I've seen it so many times. The husband goes, I'm going to kill myself.

And yes, there are some female batterers. That's true. But it's a huge, huge, minuscule amount of domestic violence perps are women compared to the number of men. Nancy, it's actually a predictor of DV homicide, not abuse, not just abuse. Who's speaking? It's Kelsey. Okay. Thank you for telling me that.

You're hearing Kelsey McKay, former prosecutor, victim's rights lawyer, founder of McKay Training and Consulting and Respond Against Violence nonprofit. And that's where you can find her, by the way, respond against the violence dot org. One more time, Kelsey, repeat. As Rachel said, there are patterns to escalate towards homicide and threatening suicide is often an indicator that the abuser is losing control and it's their attempt to regain it. And if that doesn't work, it often precedes a homicide. So it's a risk factor with the danger assessment that if an offender, an abuser threatens to commit suicide, it's an indicator of escalation towards domestic violence homicide. You know what? You two are making such perfect sense. And anybody on the panel, again, this is not high tea at Buckingham Palace.

Camilla and Charles are not here. Jump in. Okay, this is where, this is Dave Thomas, and this is where we have to put all those pre-incident indicators together as soon as possible. That's why it's so important that we work in multidisciplinary teams. The sooner we get these survivors, these victims to services, the sooner that we start working collectively together to respond effectively to this brewing storm, the more people we're going to be able to, in my view, be able to save.

The lethality assessments are crucial. And we have to take that information and be able to quarantine that individual who's engaging in these toxic behaviors. Time and time again, it's like a broken record, as you alluded to earlier and and we the same thing the same thing's happening yes it's like the same thing over and over and i'm hearing something new now anecdotally out of all the by the time i would get a domestic violence case it was a homicide or an ag assault and i will remember i remember like yesterday uh one of the first felonies that wasn't a homicide that was domestic case the victim came in with the perpetrator and she was in a hip cast from the hip down straight down her leg was in one of those thick casts not even a

boot a full-on cast she dragged up to me with a cane with him helping her along. She goes, I want to drop charges. I'm like, Oh hell no, you're not dropping charges lady. And I looked at him and I said, it's not on her. It's on me. Yeah. If you're mad, come at me because there's this whole plethora of other issues like feeling embarrassed, feeling it's your fault, not wanting to prosecute, but hold on everybody. I'm hearing something right now and it makes perfect sense. And I'm hearing it from Kelsey McKay, Rachel Louise Snyder, and Corporal Dave R. Thomas about, it's got control. You don't like things are spinning out. You don't like the way they're

going on. I'm going to kill myself. Okay. That's just what he did. He threatened suicide to control her. And now he's on the run and she's dead. Gunshot wounds. Three, we think, two, the face. What more do we know? Listen. Shortly after 9 a.m. on a Sunday morning, Carrie McDermott answers her door to find her neighbor's children asking for help. They can't find their dad and their mom is crying in her bedroom. 911 got the call from Carrie McDermott at 9 14 a.m. She told them what the kids just told her. Within minutes, police arrived at the home on Cherry Street and found Breanne Pennington lying in bed in the upstairs bedroom with a gunshot wound to the head.

She was pronounced dead a few minutes later by a paramedic. Police searched the house and yard looking for the husband of Breanne and the father of the four children who ran next door, but Erin Pennington is gone. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. crime stories with nancy grace two five seven and nine they find mommy yeah so this is dawn wilcox um and i'm a femicide researcher and the thing that was so upsetting about this is the children told the neighbor that they couldn't find their dad, but they heard their mom crying. And if you look at the timeline, likely what they heard were sounds of her dying on the other side of the door. Dawn Wilcox joining me. Let me formally introduce her. Femicide expert, researcher, educator, activist, executive director at Women Count USA. And that's where you can find her, womencountusa.org.

Dawn Wilcox, you're so correct. And my next note that I was going to throw to Dr. Charles Heller, who's a forensic psychologist, is in their minds, they were either hearing, I don't know how much they would have heard because she was shot in the head, in the face to be specific. So that would have been an instantaneous death. And I'm going to go to Dr. Manisha Pandey on that. But what they heard in their child filter was mommy was crying. And they run next door and says mommy's lying on i thought they said the floor but they must have said the bed crying so they went in and they saw their mother dead of a gunshot wound shotgun wound to the face and their child interpretation of that is mommy is crying and won't get up and daddy is gone.

Dr. Charles Heller, boy, do I need to shrink. You know, somehow I got to shake this whole thing off and go be with my children after this. I'm trying to understand what happened. You are the forensic psychologist. How do they translate? They see their mother dead with a gunshot wound to the face. And in their head, they go, Mommy's crying and she won't get up. Nancy, these kids were traumatized when they heard the gunshot.

And whatever came after that, they felt the mother was alive. Because they don't really know that much about death. They want her to be crying. They don't want her to be bleeding from the face. To Dr. Manisha Pandey, Chief Forensic Pathologist for Forensic Pathologist LLC, theforensicpathologist.com. Dr. Manisha, thank you for being with us. Would she have, hey, wait, maybe she went through something else before she was shot in the face that would have elicited crying. But Dr. Panday, that would be instantaneous, wouldn't it?

Yes, it's a devastating injury, especially if you're shot in the face and you pretty much die instantaneously. You know what's so interesting? They say daddy's not home. He was so angry that she was taking the children to Texas that he left them there to find mommy. Listen to this. Video surveillance from a neighbor shows Aaron Pennington leaving the driveway at 42 Cherry Street at about 8.50 a.m. Sunday morning in his white 2013 BMW 320 sedan. The video also shows all four Pennington children leaving their home together 17 minutes after their father left the home with the children walking to the house next door. An autopsy determined Breanne Pennington's cause of death was a gunshot wound to the head and the manner of her death was homicide. So to Leslie Morgan Steiner, advocate and survivor, author of Crazy Love, which was a New York Times bestseller. You can find her at lesliebooks.com. Leslie, thank you for being with us. He was so

angry. She was taking the children away. He loved them so much that he left them to find mommy dead. I mean, what could be more traumatic than finding your mother dead? It's an excellent example of how destructive and dangerous these men are and how skilled they are at hiding in plain sight and the ways in which our country gives the benefit of the doubt to abusive and potentially lethal men. And, you know, the thing that I think was most striking about this that other guests have commented upon is his is the way that he tried to use pity as a manipulation tool. And pity is an enormous red flag that is not talked about enough in terms of abuse cases. It's very rare for even family, friends, and neighbors to see evidence of physical violence occurring. But what you can see is an adult male

who expects other people to feel sorry for him. That's why he made the suicide threat. That's why people will often say about abusers that they seemed harmless, they seemed so charming. It's because they're really skilled at pulling your heartstrings and making you think that they deserve your pity and protection. so charming it's because they're really skilled at pulling your heartstrings and making you think that they deserve your pity and protection when in fact they

they're lethal weapons and I survived gun violence and strangulation from a man who I thought I loved so much so I know firsthand what it's like to live with somebody who is you begin to suspect is in danger of killing you. And then like this victim, you try to protect yourself and your children by making a plan to leave to Texas. And then it triggers their fragility and their rage and their fear of abandonment. And they get a message from society that if a woman is threatening to leave you, it is somehow okay to kill her. That's what this man was thinking.

And this is what we see all the time in domestic violence work. Yeah, you've got to understand these individuals are master magicians. They are very adept at making the general public, friends, family, go with the smoke and mirrors. And while they continue to portray themselves in this as the victim, really, but when we dig down, when we do a good assessment, when we look at everything in context, we start pulling the mask off. You know, they engage in, some of them don't even engage in this, in a lot of overt physical violence. And domestic violence,

I think everybody on here would agree, goes much more beyond the physical. But, and the course of control that these individuals engage in, which is a pattern of behavior that unreasonably interferes with a person's free will and liberty. You know, something you just said, Corporal David R. Thomas, about how it's not just the beatings. And I'm sure that all of our

experts, Rachel Louise Snyder, Leslie Morgan Steiner, Dawn Wilcox, Kelsey McKay. It's not just the beatings, but it's the way that you live. And you don't really understand the everyday just excruciating stress. You're walking on edge shells. You don't know what is going to set the person off until you're free of it. Then you look back and go, oh my stars, that was just hell. Now this guy leaves the children to find mommy and imagine a two, a five, a seven and a nine-year-old going next door because mommy is in bed or on the floor crying, but then he seemingly disappears. Listen. The day after Aaron Pennington was seen leaving his house at about 8.50 a.m. Sunday morning, WCVB reports that a bow hunter walking in the wooded area off Kenton Street near Camp Collier in Gardner around 5 p.m. in the afternoon found Aaron Pennington's white 2013 BMW 320 sedan. It was about 1,500 feet down a wooded trail. Camp Collier is near the Ashburn-Hamptown line. Local and state police

assets began searching for Pennington in the wooded area immediately that Monday night and continued that search all the way through Wednesday afternoon. Pennington has yet to be found. Erin Pennington, on the run, armed and dangerous. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. And now I want to bring in not just a colleague, not just someone that I consider to be a friend, but someone I trusted to care for my twins. He's known as the Turtle Man, and you may wonder why is Nancy Grace entrusting her twins to the Turtle Man. His true name is Chris Adams. He is a swamp survival expert. You can find him on Facebook under Wiregrass Ecological and Cultural Project on TikTok at Georgia Turtle Man.

And he took me and the twins through the Okefenokee Swamp. And before we had gotten 30 feet out in the swamp, now by the time we counted 40 gators, their heads would just pop up that much. We weren't, we were not a football field into the swamp and we had already counted 40 gators and they were close. I almost said, turn this buggy around, but I trusted Chris Adams and I was right and he has been with me analyzing people living in the wild and and survivalists oh gosh ever since then that's how much I believe

this guy Chris Adams aka turtle man explain the terrain and how this guy could be surviving I always think of Eric Rudolph the Olympic terrain and how this guy could be surviving. I always think of Eric Rudolph, the Olympic bomber, and how he survived for years in the wild, eluding even the FBI. Tell me, with this terrain, how could this guy be surviving? Well, I'll tell you, it differs greatly from what I'm familiar with, but not so much that a person couldn't go out there and hide for a few days. Mostly what I'm seeing from images up that way are pine barrens around that lake. There are some brushy, marshy areas, but Lake Wampanoag is a fairly good-sized lake. If he could hide in those little nooks and crannies along the way, it would be easy to stay concealed. But right now, one thing he's contending with is the weather. I've noticed the weather over about the last week, for instance, today is not going to get much more above 35,

36 degrees up there. A person on the run or even getting any bit of moisture on themselves without being able to stay dry can suffer hypothermia pretty quickly. So it's up in the air. I don't know how much he planned, but stay with me, guys. I know he did plan to murder her in the ultimate act of domestic violence. Listen. Investigators found a note from Saturday evening, the night before his wife's body was found in their shared bedroom. She was dead from a shot to the face. The note found on Aaron Pennington's cell phone said, quote, don't say anything. Be quiet. If she wakes up, just say you're getting nasal spray. Get on side of bed, very close proximity on bed. Put hole in her head. Put hole in her head. Where was this found?

That part of your phone, you may or may not ever use it where you can write notes to yourself. Note to self. And Nancy. Put hole in her head. Who is this? This is Dawn. And you know, if I, if I said to you, a woman was executed today in the world, right? You'd, you'd probably say, oh yeah, in Iran or Turkey or Iraq, but women are executed in the United States on a daily basis. Her right to leave was secondary to his right to execute her for it. And his note shows that even though we like to frame domestic violence murders as, quote, he just snapped, they're often meticulously premeditated. The man sitting across from you at the breakfast table eating Cheerios is plotting your murder. It's shocking, but prevalent.

And it's interesting that you said many people think, oh, he just snapped. There is. Kelsey McKay backed me up on this. Attorney, now Victims Rights lawyer, founder of McKay Training and Consulting. There is no such thing as snap. The snap defense. That is a show on TV. Snapped. Absolutely. That is not a legitimate defense. Oh, I snapped. Everybody in Fulton County jail will be walking free. They'll all say, oh, I snapped.

And it builds into it almost like an element of victim blaming as though she has some type of control or choice in it. When domestic abuse and, you know, we talked to you asked at first, why do we still have these murders? And the truth is just the language we use. Domestic violence limits the most important understanding of these cases. And that's what abuse is. And it's not violence. And violence is often used to reinforce it, but it doesn't always exist. And I also think it's interesting to note that he shot her in the face. And Dawn may know more than this with her experience, but certainly there's an aspect of wanting to make sure she isn't attractive. Really in the murders, what we see is a lot of patterns where you degrade her. There's a lot of different themes that occur in domestic violence that are different than other types of homicides and certainly different than

homicides that involve male victims and male perpetrators. You're right. Dr. Charles Hiller joining me, a forensic psychologist and expert specializing in domestic violence. In my notes, I wrote significance of shooting in the face to disfigure her because she's very beautiful. Often, as Kelsey McKay pointed out, a high-profile lawyer, women are left in a degrading manner, like naked, to be found that way, something that would be embarrassing to them in some way. Explain, Dr. Heller, the significance of shooting her in the face. This man was extremely angry, and he wanted to get all his anger out in that one moment. And unfortunately, that's what he did. And it's not unusual for people who are violent to do something like that. That push back on the anger, though, because angry, these are choices. They might appear angry. Certainly it's violent. These are choices they might appear angry certainly it's violent but these are choices that they make when they lose control i'm curious about how he is

surviving right now back to chris adams joining us survival expert now that we know he planned this in advance i mean look at his note be quiet if wakes up, tell her you're just up getting your nasal spray. Sneak around. Get very close. Put hole in her head. He had to write a note to himself. He had to devise the time, the location, the perfect moment that he would be least likely to be caught. And then he just leaves.

And he leaves in the car, conceals the car deep in the woods. You mentioned temperatures are going down to 35 degrees. Question, what would he need to survive in that terrain and under those circumstances? Because I know he planned this. Did he plan to hide out? With his military background, I would assume that he would have had some formulative plan to carry things that he needed out there. What I haven't heard in any of these news articles is any real reason to think that he carried much of anything with him. They don't know because no one has released to us what, if anything, was found in the vehicle. We don't know if he had a backpack. We know nothing. I'm trying to figure out what he would have taken because this guy is on the run right now and is armed and

dangerous. Listen to this. This is the Worcester County DA. He is considered armed and dangerous. There were four children in the house. The children are safe and right now are in the custody of DCF, Massachusetts Department of Children and Family Services. We don't have anything else at this time. Really can't take any questions. We will update you, but we want to make sure he is not in custody. We know that some information has been put out on social media. There's some suggestions that he was in custody. He is not in custody, and that's the reason for this availability right now. Ages of the children? Two, five, seven, and nine. Should neighbors be

concerned? We're concerned. Yeah, neighbors should be concerned. Everybody should be concerned. So Chris Adams, what would he need if he has a backpack on his back? We don't know what he took, if anything. What would he need to survive survive and how can we find him? Because he's surviving. The basic thing is warmth. If he had an emergency blanket, if he had a woolen blanket, but with temperatures dipping down that low, you'd have to keep your body temperature up throughout the night. So he's got to have a fire somewhere. Otherwise, he's going into this very haphazardly. If he's not keeping his body temperature up, he is at severe risk of getting hypothermia. And with that, of course, comes his demise if he doesn't seek medical help, which he's not going to do, obviously.

Exactly, Chris Adams. Exactly. Rachel Louise Snyder, we think he went on foot. He probably couldn't get far, which means he could be there in that 400 acre area unless he had help, which I doubt anybody's going to help him after he murders his wife, or unless he got a ride somehow. Did he have a rental car waiting? Did he plan it that much? Did he get an Uber? All avenues of inquiry. But Rachel Louise Snyder, way in, how far could he have gotten on foot? He is a survivalist. He's a survivalist. I mean, he had seven years in the military. You know, I don't, he's got ties to California, like any of the, any of speculation is like, we just don't know. But most of these guys end up killing themselves. And I'm not as a journalist,

I don't like to speculate. But I feel like this is the real problem is not to me anyway, it's not is he out there alive? How is he surviving? What kind of what what kind of justice can we get? The real problem is, what is wrong with our systems that we couldn't save her? Okay, you know what? You're right. That is a bigger question for us to grow with, which we have to grapple right now. I'm thinking about this woman, the latest, and I have the whole list of women we were going to talk about, including Kira Hudson, who was so afraid of her husband. She wore a bulletproof vest and begged prosecutors and cops to put her ex behind bars, even gave them a video of himanor. And he walked out immediately, then found her at the school drop off and shot her while she's wearing the bulletproof vest with the children in the backseat.

Anna Walsh, children, a great mother. She's not only murdered, she's dismembered. We still don't have her body, her husband, Brian Walsh, suspect. And you don't have to be married. Of course, there's a case of Gabby Petito. And in that case, the killer, her boyfriend, Brian Laundrie, hid out in Carleton Reserve, 25,000 acres after he murdered her. Remember that, Chris Adams? That I do. So guys, part of this picture,

and I believe earlier, let's see who was jumping in. Was it Don Wilcox, Leslie Morgan Steiner, author of Crazy Love and Domestic Violence Survivor. Jump in. So 75 percent of female homicides are committed by a man known to the victim, usually in her home or car. And we need to ask what kind of country we live in where the most unsafe place for women and children are in their own homes or in their own cars. And this is just a problem that's hiding in plain sight. And we all need to recognize the red flags. And also something very important needs to be acknowledged, which is that people who commit domestic violence, men who commit domestic violence are incredibly likely to go out and attack their communities. And we saw that with Robert Card, the main mass murderer. We see it in almost all mass murderers.

So we have to be, the community has to be very afraid of Aaron Pennington and what he could do. And try to get to abusers before they commit these atrocities. And in addition to some of the other red flags that we're more familiar with, looking for bruises and domestic violence charges. Salvation. Yep. Look for fear. Fear is something that is easier to pick up on. If you see a victim who seems afraid, and I promise you that the four children and Breanne Pennington were terrified. They had to know that he was planning something. And we are very good at

ignoring victims when they come to the police and say, I'm afraid he said he's going to kill me, or I'm afraid that he's plotting something because I'm planning to leave him. And police and family court judges need to be aware of the red flags, but also they need to be empowered. Right. I hear you. I hear you. But remember in Gabby Petito, she was actually charged as the abuser before Laundrie murdered her. So let me ask you a question, Leslie Morgan Steiner. How long did you live in fear? And what was the final straw? How did you finally escape your batterer? So it was four years of being strangled and having loaded guns held to

my head on a regular basis. And what ended up happening to me is there was one final brutal beating where I was unconscious for most of it. He had a black belt in karate and a black sash in kung fu and he had his three guns. And what enabled me to leave was the awareness of my community, including the police officers who rescued me. They understood how potentially lethal this was, and my community came together to protect me. And it wasn't so much my family and friends, because they didn't know anything about domestic violence. It was the police and my local domestic violence agency who convinced me that I was in lethal danger, and that I needed my entire community. And then I needed to, I needed my

entire community support in order to leave him. I have an update guys, a few miles away from the murder scene in Ashburnham, a man found a change of clothes in the woods behind his home, a Ziploc bag with rubber gloves, surgical gloves. He thought it was a trash bag. It had a white shirt, shorts, socks, boxers, and a toothbrush. So to Dr. Manisha Pandey, Dr. Pandey, with temps going down in the 30s, as Chris Adams pointed out, how could he survive if he didn't have a coat or some type of source of warmth? So within a few hours, his temperature is going to go down and he'd probably die of hypothermia. But he's probably got some place he's at. I'm not sure where he would be.

But if he has nothing to keep him warm, he's likely to die of hypothermia soon. Well, we know his body hasn't been found. Take a listen in our cut 10 to the Worcester County District Attorney's Office. We're going to give a quick update with regards to the search for Aaron Pennington. Search has continued throughout the morning. It's going to continue. He has not been found at this point. We have a number of assets I'd like to go through who are working on this. The Massachusetts State Police SIRT Special Emergency Response Team, the State Police Tactical Operations Unit, the STOP Team, the State Police K-9 Unit, the Gardner Police Department,

the Ashburnham Police Department, the VFAS unit of the State Police, the Violent Fugitive Apprehension Section, the Massachusetts State Police Air Wing, Troop C headquarters out of Holden, and the state police detectives assigned to the Wissak County DA's office. We know he's still alive because dogs would have found him by now. We know the search is still on. To Kelsey McKay, weigh in. You know, I think a couple points have been brought up, and Nancy, going to your point about the case that you had as a prosecutor where the victim asked for charges to be dropped. The thing we have to keep in mind is that not all prosecutors are like you and I who would look in the face of a victim and say, you know, I'm going to go forward anyway. And you've mentioned in all these cases a very common theme, which is the system failed a victim. The burden was put on the victim to identify, to investigate, to cooperate.

And when that doesn't happen, right, they dismiss these cases. The burden was put on the victim to identify, to investigate, to cooperate. And when that doesn't happen, right, they dismiss these cases. And unfortunately, that puts a burden on a victim that's not safe. And in this case, we know she was trying to leave. We know she was trying to get Maddie. We know in the case of Adam Bedingfield, that not only had she tried to obtain a protective order, she had called the police. She was reaching out for help. She was trying to separate and have the kids.

But he did things that made it so that he wasn't held accountable. Throughout this case, she posted, this is Dawn just weighing in, she posted an over seven-minute video of him hitting her, kicking her. I counted at least 28 kicks and blows. Even after that, on September 28th, he was able to get an order of protection against her. Absolutely. Exactly. The same thing happened in Gabby Petito's case, where she was ruled the aggressor. Corporal Thomas, weigh in. They didn't do a good predominant aggressor assessment. They missed numerous signs.

They had no depth of knowledge when it comes to victimology. You're talking about in the Petito case, right? Gabby Petito? No, I'm talking about Gabby Petito. Yes. I mean, those officers you see on the body cams when they're interviewing her and they miss the wounds that she had. You know, they didn't they weren't able to determine offensive versus defensive wounds. They never even interviewed the individuals who originally called in the two of them when they were in when they were in town and having the confrontation. Citizens were so concerned they called 911.

It wasn't until an hour later they were pulled over. And they were witnesses seeing him, Brian Laundrie, beating, slapping Gabby Petito in the face, literally on Main Street near the Moonflower Cafe. And they were not ever even questioned. Dr. Charles Heller, weigh in. That case really took the attention of the entire country for a long time. And Gabby, Gabby knew that something was wrong with Brian, but she didn't know how to get out of that. She didn't know how to keep the destiny that she was seeing because he must have exhibited a lot of rage and anger.

Oh, yes. She did not know what to do. So young and so inexperienced. Rachel Louise Snyder, weigh in. When you see that video, what I see is, as your guest mentioned, a system that is broken in full view of, right, these police don't have training in how to assess who the primary aggressor is. When I think about all of these cases, so two of the four cases that we've talked about today, there was a woman who was actually given a restraining order. And in both those cases, it is the woman who's wound up dead. That,

to me, is a broken system. When I think about Aaron Pennington, it's not just, is he out there? Is he armed and dangerous? There are other elements we can look at in his case. He separated from the Army Rangers. He was a reservist for the last year, separated in February, I think. Raytheon, his employer, said they confirmed that he had worked there but had lost that job or didn't have that job after March. That's a disruption in the home. Then he's got mental health issues on top of that. Then he threatens suicide on top of that.

And when you have someone who has a high security clearance like he had to seek out mental health help is to lose that security clearance. So his wife certainly knows that. So she feels stuck, like she can't get help. These are all indications of a broken system and a system that is prioritizing his position in society over her safety. And when we, these women are experts on their, they are the experts on these men, men's behavior. These deaths are often predictable,

preventable. The women foretell their own murders and, and they know them expertly. They're the ones who walk on eggshells. Guys, if you have information on the whereabouts of Aaron Pennington, call 617-727-2200. Do not approach him.

617-727-2200. If you or someone you know needs help, needs guidance as a domestic violence victim. Dial 800-799-7233. 800-799-7233. I distinctly remember a friend of mine, a very dear friend, in high school. She dropped out of high school and she got pregnant. I noticed a sudden change in her behavior. She never went anywhere without a shirt up to her neck, the sleeves down to her wrists, and always long pants, no makeup, and hair pulled back for years. Needless to say, she was a victim of domestic violence, but in high school, I didn't understand

what was happening she got free and the baby is now a very well respected dental surgeon but the year she endured I can only imagine if you If you believe someone you know is suffering, don't wait. Do something. At least in the name of Brianne Pennington and Kiera Hudson and Anna Walsh and Gabby Petito. Do something. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast. Goodbye, friend.