Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Beautiful Woman Missing After Night Out With Friends: Where is Gretchen?

Episode Date: January 6, 2023

Gretchen Fleming, 28, disappears after an evening out with a friend, but video captured her leaving  the My Way Lounge & Restaurant in Parkersburg, West Virginia, with an older man.  This person of interest  reportedly has provided inconsistent accounts of what happened that evening. Police say the man took Fleming to his home.  He says he dropped Fleming off.  The young woman's purse with her cellphone, ID and money were left behind at the lounge.   Where is Gretchen?  Joining Nancy Grace today: David Fleming – Father Dale Carson - High Profile Attorney (Jacksonville), Former FBI Agent, Former Police Officer (Miami-Dade County), Author: "Arrest-Proof Yourself, DaleCarsonLaw.com  Caryn Stark - NYC Psychologist, CarynStark.com, Twitter: @carynpsych, Facebook: "Caryn Stark"   Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan"  Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert, Founder: Cold Case Investigative Research Institute in Atlanta, GA, ColdCaseCrimes.org, @ColdCaseTips   Host of new podcast: Zone 7  Dave Mack Crime online Investigative reporter  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A gorgeous 27-year-old girl has seemingly vanished into thin air. Where is Gretchen? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. which is 304-424-1072. Repeat, 304-424-1072. There is a very strong chance we can help bring Gretchen home alive. First of all, take a listen to our friends at WCHS. The Parkersburg Police Department is asking for your help in finding 27-year-old Gretchen Fleming of Vienna.

Detectives say she was last seen the night of December 3rd and 4th, but relatives didn't realize she was gone quickly and did not report it until this week. Police located her purse and phone, amping up concern. Detectives have worked around the clock since then to cultivate information and the public has really stepped up in regard to tips and even if it wasn't from that night giving us information they thought was pertinent and a combination of that has really expedited the investigation to the point we were able to obtain some search warrants. With me an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now. But first,

before I introduce to you our panel, I want to go to a special guest joining us. It's Gretchen's father, David Fleming. Mr. Fleming, thank you for being with us. Thank you for having me. Mr. Fleming, I'm going to go into all the details surrounding her disappearance as we know them from police reports but i want to hear from your family's point of view when did you realize gretchen was gone uh probably that sunday after she came up missing the following week um she was staying mother's house and uh she she had been known you know to go out and stay with friends and you know come back every few days and get her clothes and go to work. And she was just gone a little longer than normal. And that's when we started looking for her.

So she was basing herself, did you say her mother's home or her brother's? No, she was staying at her grandmother's house. Her grandmother, I missed that first syllable. So she's base of operations. And, you know, the reality is that with, let me go to Cheryl McCollum joining me, the founder and director of the Cold Case Research Institute, currently in law enforcement. You can find her at coldcasecrimes.org. Cheryl, that's the way millennials are and the next generation as well.

They don't live under the same rules that we thought we were supposed to live under. Like, okay, you graduate from college, and then you get a job, and then you get an apartment. As soon as you get a down payment, you put down a house because that's the best thing to do financially. No, no, no, no, no. In fact, I just read about a new member, I think he's at the House of Representatives, says, yeah, I'm going to head to D.C. and couch surf for a few days and just see how it unfolds.

Absolutely. This is not unusual to be basically living at Grandma's house because of the location, and then you stay with this friend girl and that friend girl and this one and that, and you come back, have dinner, stay a few days, and then off you go. It's just, it's very nomadic, let me say. Absolutely. It's pretty freeing and kind of adventurous. I wish somebody told me I didn't have to sign a lease. Okay, go ahead.

To that one-bedroom studio apartment I lived in for so long. But this is not unusual. But I think it adds to the dilemma, Cheryl McCollum, because we can't ID, okay, this is the day she didn't come home to grandma's. See what I mean? I can't start my crime line. Well, here's what happens. And we know this, even though this was a usual type of lifestyle for her, there is a pattern. And she usually is not gone this long. And she certainly is not, you know, voiding to be in contact with her family. And what's really important here, Nancy, and this will go to your timeline, is that cell phone. She's not with it and she's not on it. You're absolutely correct. Back to David Fleming. This is Gretchen's dad joining us.

David, I know that your whole family is twisted up so badly wanting her to come home. But I appreciate you telling us very calmly the sequence of events. Now, tell me again when you first realized Gretchen was nowhere you thought she would be. That is correct. My mother came over to the house that Sunday and said, you know, this is abnormal. It's been longer than normal. And I said, well, let's wait till Monday. You know, the weekend's over. Maybe she'll be back Monday. And then she asked for work. And so that's when I started going out, following the trail and looking for her. And I found her purse at one of the establishments that she was at.

My heart just sunk when you said that I found her purse. Go ahead, Mr. Fleming. And her purse, I found her debit card and her cell phone. So then really triggered me that I knew something was wrong. Hold on, writing down everything you're saying as quickly as I can. Debit card, debit card and cell phone in purse. You found it. And where was it?

It was at an establishment called The Front Row where somebody from the last establishment basically returned it back to where they began. Is that like a restaurant bar? Yes, that is correct. I mean, I have in my head something like, Jackie, do you agree with this? Something like, I don't know, TGI Fridays or Applebee's or something like that.

You can get food. You can sit at the bar if you want to. It's just kind of a lot of people in and out. Hold on. David Fleming with me. This is Gretchen's dad. Mr. Fleming, you said that the grandma, her grandmother where she was living. Now, hold on. Was that also in parkersburg west

virginia yes okay she lives in vienna parkersburg and vienna is just like they're basically the same town vienna's just a little suburb of parkersburg okay vienna is in wood county west virginia it's situated right there on the ohio river which is an issue i want to go back to you on joe scott mor. It's situated on the Ohio River and it borders Parkersburg, like Mr. Fleming is telling you. It's kind of like all one and the same. The population, now this is what's important in my mind, not only the Ohio River, but the population is around 10,776 people, about 11,000 people. That is small compared to like a huge metropolis. It's bigger than where I grew up in rural Bibb County, but it's still small compared to other places. And that touches

on the way I would approach this investigation. However, it's the third largest city by population in the Parkersburg, Vienna, Marietta metropolitan area. That's what I know. And that population count is going to be very, very important. So you said on that Sunday, what was the date, the date in December of that Sunday, Mr. Fleming? It was the 11th. December 11th.

Okay, that's when the grandma comes over and says, hey, Gretchen hasn't been home. Now, how many days at that juncture had she been not at home? Seven. Seven. Sid, can you get me the weekday of December 4, 2022? So the following, it should have been the previous Sunday. It was December 3rd, which would have been that Saturday.

Gotcha. I've got December 4. Thank you for the correction because every day matters, frankly. December 3rd, Saturday, 2022. That was the last time she was at Grandma's. Correct. Okay, guys, you were just hearing our friends at WCHS-TV. Now take a listen to our friends at WTAP.

In the dark, in the cold, just days before Christmas, the community united with one goal in mind, bringing Gretchen Fleming home. I want everybody to look to your left and look to your right. This is what community is. Fleming turns 28 on Christmas Eve. A pastor who spoke at the vigil prayed for a miracle that she's home for her birthday. God, we're just thinking about so many ways and opportunities, Father, that you have shared with us that miracles do happen. And God, we are asking for a miracle now.

Miracles do happen. And that's what I'm praying for in this case, Mr. Fleming, a miracle to bring your daughter home. 27 at the time she goes missing. She lives with grandma not too far away and grandma comes home to the parents and says Gretchen's been gone. She's been gone now a week. That's highly highly unusual. Now I want you to hear what law enforcement has to say. Take a listen to our friends at WTAP. Parkersburg Police Chief Matthew Board also got up to speak. He assured the community that law enforcement is working hard on the case. There are so many behind the scenes at the Parkersburg Police Department that have really just essentially not went home since we found out Gretchen wasn't home. Board encourages anyone with any information to reach out.

If you hear anything, if you see anything, if you have a recollection, don't hesitate to reach out to us. Because what might seem minor to you all might be what we need to help bring Gretchen home. You're hearing everyone joining together to find this girl. Won't you help us again? The tip line and there is still a chance we can help bring her home alive. 304-424-1072. 304-424-1072. Her father is here begging for your help. If you can hear our voices, please go online. Look at Gretchen. Look at her. I want to see how this evening unfolds.

A Fox Nation exclusive. An international pop star stripped of human rights. How does that happen? Easier than you think. Join us for a deep dive into Britney Spears' conservatorship. Trapped, streaming now on Fox Nation. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. To Cheryl McCollum joining us and Dave Mack, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter.

First to you, Dave Mack. Cheryl, Joe Scott, Karen Stark, Dale Carson, jump in. And Mr. Fleming, of course, you're going to have any correction that we know from the outside looking in and reading the police reports. Dave Mack, tell me what happened that evening. You know what? Let me fast forward to the video. Is there any surveillance video at the front row or the bar she went to, the restaurant she went to afterwards? Yes.

I don't know if they have video at the front row. That hasn't been disclosed in what I've seen thus far. You've got it from MyWay? There is video at MyWay. We actually do know who she left the MyWay bar with. Guys, hold on. MyWay. MyWay is also a restaurant bar. They have family karaoke. They have live music. You can play pool. They have this Sunday brunch that people from miles around come to the Sunday brunch with their families now interesting Dave Mack when was she observed at my way now remember her dad is with us David Fleming he goes and collects her pocketbook at the first restaurant she went to, the front row, which had her cell phone and her debit card in it.

Wasn't that the first place she stopped, David? Yes, ma'am. Okay, so he goes there. How did you know to go there, Mr. Fleming? Because it's a popular place in town and younger people hang out there, so I thought to check there first. Okay, well, that was smart. I thought maybe they called you because they had this pocketbook, but you went there all

on your own. Yes. I showed a picture of my daughter and asked if anybody had seen her. And they said, matter of fact, she left or somebody returned her purse here. Karen Stark joining me. Renowned New York psychologist joining us out of Manhattan today to help find Gretchen. You can find her at KarenStark.com. That's Karen with a C.

Karen, did you hear what he just said? I mean, we're racing through the facts so we can get it out there to help find her. But let me just stop for a minute. Here's Dad. And I'm thinking of my dad. And you know how I feel about my father.

Out in the cold, going from place to place, bar to restaurant to bar to restaurant, to gas station to this to that, with a picture. This is my girl. Have you seen her? Her name is Gretchen. Can you imagine that, Karen Stark? It's so vivid, Nancy. I have such an image. And I'm so sorry of him going around saying, have you seen my daughter?

And how strange. Who do you know? What female would leave a bar and let their cell phone be in the bar, their purse be in the bar. Nobody would leave that behind. And it makes you wonder, what exactly was going on? It's not a normal situation. I don't even care if someone had a lot to drink. You sort of have it attached to you.

Let me ask everybody in the studio, guys, are you within reach of your cell phone right now? Yes. And me. And Ellie. Let me ask everybody in the studio, guys, are you within reach of your cell phone right now? Yes. And me. And Ellie. We all have our cell phones right here. Can I tell you, Karen, remember what I went through trying to decide whether to give the twins a cell phone? Yes.

I had planned to do it at age 14, and then we all went to this football game, and they didn't check in every 20 minutes like they were supposed to. And I was out wandering in the parking lot, convinced somebody had taken the twins. Of course, they had not taken the twins. But it was that moment I decided to give them a cell phone and trick it out with every kind of finder location app you could put on it. You know, this cell phone is partly the answer to the question that you're searching for. Is this Dale Carson?

It is. Guys, with me is Dale Carson. He's a high-profile lawyer out of Jacksonville, but the real reason we have him on, not only for his legal acumen, is he's a former FBI agent for many years and a former officer in Miami-Dade, which is a very high-crime area.

Jump in, Dale Carson. You know, it's a mountainous territory in West Virginia. Cell phones have a limited reach in areas like that. Oh, good point. So looking at pains and watching her phone go from one place to another, see if there's another tandem that goes from that same place to another. And then you can tell specifically when she left by looking at the duration of the phone as it stays charged to see backwards how long it's been alive and whether or not the father

when he picked up the phone was still active so and there are other questions like who brought the the pocketbook back exactly right was she in her car? I mean, where's her car? Those are important issues. But candidly, there'll be transmissions that are limited in range. And all they've got to do is correlate those cell phone things to isolate out who the hell was involved with her. Can I jump in, Nancy? Yeah, but I want to say something, Cheryl. Yes. Hold your thought.

Guys, I know we're going herky-jerky, but this is the way investigations are. First, we were talking to her dad about her pocketbook. Now, we're talking about cell phone pings and cars. Okay, so you have to go with the flow. You can't have an outline and read it right down the outline and think you're going to get a magic answer at the end. So I'm going to get that question answered. Mr. Fleming, this is Gretchen's dad, was she traveling in her car that night? Gretchen doesn't have a car. She's never wanted her driver's license.

She's one of those people that just doesn't want to drive. She was more of a, you know, got a ride by, you know, friend. Well, that also is not unusual for someone her age, 27. But it reflects an agreeability that makes her subject to being manipulated by people. You know, I mean, in other words, I don't know about that, but I do know she'd have to get a ride to wherever she was going. So we don't have a car to help us. Let me mark that off. Cheryl McCollum, joining me, founder, director of the Cold Case Research Institute.

She's also active forensic expert. You can find her at a brand new, and it's a hit, podcast, Zone 7. Okay, Cheryl, jump in. So she's seen at this bar with an older man, and there's inconsistent statements that he's already made to law enforcement whoa wait a minute wait a minute whoa whoa whoa wait when you say older you know she's just 27 so that can mean a range that can be anywhere from 28 to 75 um hold on i'm going to follow up mr fleming david fleming we're talking about surveillance video not at the front row where you retrieved her pocketbook but from my way

restaurant and lounge um did have you seen the surveillance video mr fleming uh no i have not but i'm aware of it. Have you tried to see it? I haven't taken the time to go look at it yet, but I've been told it by detail of what was all on the video. What were you told is on the video? Because what we know about

may not be as, let me say, fully fleshed out as what you know about. What were you told is on the video? I was told that she was at the MyWay and appeared to be pretty intoxicated and talking to an older male.

Okay, what about this friend? And I'm not saying he's a suspect because I don't believe that he is a suspect. I call him a friend boy because he's not a boyfriend. He's a friend that is a guy. She went like Natalie Holloway

went to Carlos and Charlie's in Aruba with her friend girls from high school. They were in a group and then she got separated from the group and ended up with Jordan Vandersloot, may he rot in hell, and the Kalpoe brothers, may they also rot in hell.

Your daughter, Gretchen, goes to the first place, the front row, with the friend, the longtime friend, who is a male. Is he with her at my way? She rode with him to my way, and that's where they got separated. Okay, gotcha. So you were told what about the video, Mr. Fleming? That basically she appeared to be intoxicated and was talking to an older man and ended up leaving with him. When you say older, what do you mean by older?

You know, mid-50s. What in the hay is a man in his mid-50s doing with a 27-year-old girl? I mean, that's the lifestyle, I guess. But, I mean, I think the same time every time I look at Leonardo DiCaprio. What, what? Never mind. Not the church lady. Not judging.

I'm just trying to figure out what this guy is doing there trying to pick up young girls and nancy if i could just jump in because i wanted to make this point here's one of the statements he made to law enforcement he told them at one point that night early morning she was in his car so we not only know he was with her she was in his vehicle at some point and nobody has seen her since. I think that's critical. I can add to that, Nancy. Okay. We've got the video. Oh, guys, you're hearing Dave Mack, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Everybody jump in. Okay, go ahead, Dave. We've got the video of Gretchen leaving with this person and we don't have it all the way to his car okay the video only goes a certain part he was parked in an area that wasn't picked up by the video

however we have his own admission that she got into the car with him um he then claims and this is where the quag comes in claims that he just dropped her off at some intersection, okay, that they never went all the way to his house. That's why police are looking for anybody in that area because he lives about two miles from my way. They're trying to find anybody in that area that has surveillance videos. What about the intersection, Dave Mack? Is there a stop, a red light cam? Well, I don't know. I know that the police obviously did not believe him in what he said because it makes no sense you're gonna drop a girl off that you picked up at a bar at an intersection in the middle of the night that makes no sense whatsoever okay now wait to you and

i it doesn't make sense it may not make sense but what if she said hey i want out of here i want an uber let me off right here i mean we don know what happened, but I tend to agree with you guys. Take a listen to our cut 12. This is Samantha Cavalli at WTAP. New tonight, the Parkersburg Police Department has provided WTAP with more details on Gretchen Fleming's disappearance. If you have video surveillance, Parkersburg Police Chief Matthew Board encourages you to look for this car in your footage. He says to check footage from late night December 3rd through December 5th. If you see the car in your footage, contact Detective Zimmerman at 304-424-1072.

During after hours, you can call 304-424-8444. What kind of car are they looking for? To David Fleming, this is Gretchen's dad, Gretchen Fleming's dad. What kind of car are they looking for, Mr. Fleming? It's a black hatchback. I'm looking for the model here. Caught me a little off guard. A Nissan Rogue.

Thank you. That's it. What? It's a black Nissan Rogue Sport. Nissan Rogue Sport. Now, question to the panel. I assume that a black Nissan Rogue Sport is what the described older man was driving that night, correct? Correct, yeah. Okay, Joe Scott Morgan joining me now. Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.

He's got a hit podcast, Body Bags, with Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, Jennifer Dulos. Remember? The missing Connecticut mom of five. And, of course, the husband, Fotis Dulos, was her killer. But do you remember the video and photo montage in this small police force in Connecticut

that they put together? It was incredible. They have her car, Jennifer Dulos' car, I mean her home, and they've got video surveillance from red light cams, intersection cams, businesses, ring doorbell. What really impressed me, they even got a, I think it was a school bus or a public bus cam,

where the doors open to let somebody on or off on the bus, and you see Fotis Dulos going by, placing him at a certain location, ending up at a car wash, specifically to have the interior detailed and cleaned. And in that vehicle, her blood was found. That is how you do it. And this small Connecticut police force, and I mean that in a complimentary way, put together a video montage of everything that happened that they could. It was very impressive. That is what they're trying to do right here. And it is no easy feat. They're asking the the public if you have any footage of this black

hatchback nissan rogue sport call this number we're trying to piece the puzzle together okay just got jump in yeah you begin to think about this this you know they have a parkersburg has an advantage in this case where where all of this once down went down now the periphery of parkersburg has an advantage in this case. Where all of this went down, now the periphery of Parkersburg is not a densely populated area. However, this is a business dining district. It's down toward the river. A lot of people go there and hang out. So you've got a lot of businesses that are around there. People are walking about. I don't know about the cams on the stoplights and all of this sort of thing, but businesses alone will have some kind of CCTV footage. That's going to be important here when you're talking about something like a montage because

her movements can be tracked. And this is something else I think is critical in this case. You know, Mac had mentioned something off the air just a little while ago about perhaps some type of agent, like a drug being placed into her drink. If there is video footage at one of these bars, you can actually appreciate this, Nancy, the uptake of a drug like that into a system. Okay. Are you talking about GHB, gamma hydroxybutyrate? GHB or, or Rehobinol, either one. They're, they're, they kind of accomplish the same thing. They're both classified as date rape drugs, but you know, the thing about it is both of these drugs and people will find this interesting that have ever had surgery. They're an aid to anesthesia. It's like a precursor to anesthesia.

They put you in this kind of dreamlike state. You can't really remember anything, that sort of thing. And to Dale's point earlier, he talked about compliance. And that's going to be key here. But if they have footage of her having ingested a drink, you know, they're throwing out this thing about her being inebriated. Well, you just don't get inebriated suddenly. If there's an agent in your drink, like a date rape drug, it's bam. I mean, you see it, the uptake is like really quickly. So you can have her with a normal gait, walking about, and then all of a sudden, she's stumbling. She has to have somebody put their hands on her to aid her as she's walking along.

And that's going to be a big tell with this, you know, when all of this comes out. Now, back to this car. You know, they say that they're questioning this guy. If they are questioning this guy, I hope that they have an eye on this car, that they can get their hands on it as soon as possible so that they can check this car out and track its movements and also anything i mean anything that might be a tie back to this precious girl i want to add something up off what you're saying joe scott morgan and again mr fleming with me is gretchen's dad i'm getting information about these stickers that are on the back of the Nissan Rogue Sport. They are Darth Vader stickers on the back passenger windows, one on either side,

and apparently there is a Outer Banks sticker on the rear window as well. Okay, Joe Scott Morgan, two words, Michelle Parker. Do you remember the people's court mom who goes missing after she goes on people's court and she and her fiance, the father of her twin children are fighting about an engagement ring. The day that it airs, she goes missing and then her vehicle is found parked in a nearby apartment complex across the street from a mall, as I recall, a big mall. And the stickers, it was for, I think, a glow tan. She did, you know, would go to various homes and part of her business was that she would do these glow tans. There was a huge sticker on her car, which made it highly recognizable.

They had been very meticulously scraped off the vehicle. So somebody knew that that would give away the location of her car, and they did not want her car found. I think it was a Jeep or a Hummer, maybe. So jump in, Joe Scott Morgan. When you have these stickers on a car like this, it'll give you an insight into the lives of people, who they are, what their interests are, where they travel to. In this case, we've got, well, obviously, Darth Vader, maybe into Star Wars, and also traveling, Outer Banks. Is this a place that this individual goes to regularly to go get away from it all? Is it their place?

Is it their thing? Do they have associates that like to go there? So it gives you an insight into their life. And they're traveling to these locations in this particular vehicle. It goes to their style of life and how they live. Nancy, can I jump in? Also, it's a highly identifiable vehicle with stickers on it. Jump in.

Jump in, Sharon McCollum. Joe Scott's right, but there's a flip side to that coin, and that is it goes to his crimes, meaning this is a four-door car. The Darth Vader stickers are on the back like where children sit. Then that sticker with the outer banks looks like those stickers that soccer moms put on where they go for the girls weekends. This car was non-threatening. This didn't like he was in a windowless van or a big beat up pickup truck.

This does not look like a kidnapper's car. And that's on purpose. Guys, this all occurs just before Christmas. But according to police, that is not slowing down the search for this gorgeous young girl, Gretchen. Take a listen to our cut 10, our friends at WTAP. Since Gretchen was reported missing on December 12th, Chief Board says the department has been working around the clock. The investigation has not slowed down. There are people dedicated specifically to this case.

And as I said, the holidays didn't slow that down. Christmas Eve people dedicated specifically to this case and as I said the holidays didn't slow that down. Christmas Eve, Christmas Day still working so it has not slowed down with time at all if anything it's gaining speed. So far the department has issued and executed several search warrants. WTAP asked if the person of interest was a part of those search warrants. Chief Board cannot say at this time since it is an active investigation. I know it seems at times that we may not be forthcoming with information, but there's a reason for that, and we release what we can. We've just seen in the Idaho case where police were actively trailing a suspect

and not releasing the details because the suspect would have been known and altered his behavior. We saw the same thing in the Delphi double murder of Abby and Libby. The local police held their cards close to the vest because if it had gotten out that there was a bullet they thought ejected from the gun of the perp lying between the two girls bodies the moment that would have come out you know the defendant would have gotten rid of that gun in a minute in a heartbeat so all the evidence is not being is not released to the public for a reason least to the public for a reason. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

I want to talk about something that Joe Scott Morgan brought up. David Fleming is joining me. This is Gretchen's dad. And there have been reports that Gretchen was highly intoxicated at the time she was seen exiting the My Way Lounge, karaoke lounge, if she had been given GHB or a Ruthie, that's exactly how she would appear, drunk out of it, much the way I believe Natalie Holloway appeared when she left Carlos and Charlie's. What can you tell me about Gretchen? I really don't have any information. You know, I'm just going on hearsay of what was reported. Would she have

gone out with her girlfriends and had a drinking party? Would she have done that? Or is it more likely that she was slipped something? You know, she probably went out and had some drinks. You know, not to say that it could have been both. You know, for instance, if somebody saw me appear intoxicated,

they would, my close friends would know that that's entirely wrong because I'm a teetotaler. Nancy. Jump in. Nancy, I represented a client who, a very attractive woman who was at a bar, and she got raped. And she had GHB put in her drink. She was arrested for fighting with police when she was dropped off at a fire station and she became hugely intoxicated, just as Joe mentioned, and she ultimately got charged. Interestingly, we had her blood because they took her blood and we could not even find any substance like that.

And it is my belief that you can't some of those chemicals you're not able to find even with a blood draw. And Joe, they're metabolized. It's metabolized very, very quickly. The key is if you have a suspect in a case like this, if you dig through their home, you dig through their car, they shouldn't be in possession of this. If they are in possession of this, again, it runs kind of parallel to the narrative. You want to know if they have it. Do they have the ability to use it? And also, if this individual has ever done anything like this before, that's going to be a big tell as well. I want to talk about the effects of Ruthie or GHB. Cheryl McCollum, wouldn't she have acted or appear to be drunk? There's no question about it. And here's what would be also part of the MO most likely. He's going to like

escort her out. He's going to be like holding her elbow or maybe have his arm around her, leading her away. And that's why I think this video is going to be so critical. This guy has been identified by police. We know who the POI is. Take a listen to our cut 13 WTAP. Chief Ford says they believe the person of interest took Fleming to their residence. The person of interest originally told officials that they gave Fleming a ride and she departed at an unknown location. However, Chief Ford says the story was inconsistent and additional surveillance footage led them to believe the person of interest took her to their residence. Officials have executed search warrants on the person of interest's residence, car, electronic devices, and a storage building. Chief Ford says law enforcement spoke with the person of interest in the beginning of the

investigation, but they are no longer giving police information. I'm learning a lot from what I just heard. Number one, everything we were talking about regarding gathering surveillance at that intersection, where the POI says he dropped her off, forget that. That's null and void. Because now we know police say they have additional information, I believe it to be CCTV or surveillance video of some sort,

that tells them he took her to his place. Now, right there, Karen Stark, if he took her to his place and then she left, why not just say that? I brought her home. She wanted to leave. So I got her an Uber. Why not say that if that's what happened? Why lie if, in fact, he did lie?

Well, Nancy, let's be clear about this. Just the fact that he's no longer cooperating, that speaks volumes about him holding information and being concerned. And he would not tell the truth if he brought her back, because why would he? That would make him be even more suspect. So this is a nefarious character, there's no doubt in my mind. Just hearing that he's refusing to cooperate at this point. And it makes you wonder what would be the next steps that they would be taking. Well, another thing is, I believe, Karen Stark, you're exactly correct. They're looking at the next step.

Did anyone see that particular Nissan Rogue after it went to his David Fleming this is Gretchen's dad is in an apartment or a home it was a rental house a rental home I wonder if they're wanting surveillance or witnesses that saw the car after the car left the home as a matter of fact take a listen to our cut 15, Gina Marini. They want anyone who lives in that area to review their home security systems to see if this car is in any of the footage from early morning hours of December 4th through noon on the 5th. Let's go over what we can see about the car that might help it stand out to you. Now, it's a black Nissan Rogue Sport. We don't know the year, but it seems to be a fairly newer model. From this photo of the back, there's a Pittsburgh Penguin's vanity plate cover. Now, one distinct thing that might show up on your home footage,

both sides of the car have these Darth Vader decals on the backseat windows. As you can see in the photos, it's above the gas door and on the other side as well. And one more close-up of the car, we can see an Outer Banks sticker on the left side of the rear windshield. Nancy, I've got to jump in. Please do. I'm going to go back to that video for a second. Whether or not she had her purse when she left is key. Second, if she had her purse, then her phone is going to ping wherever he took her, to his residence or elsewhere. The other thing is, who brought that purse back?

That phone would still be pinging. Well, it's my understanding she left the purse at the bar, the original bar. Perhaps. And the friend boy actually took it back when he couldn't find her to the bar where they originally met. David Fleming, do we know who handed the purse over to the establishment? Yes. Who was it? I don't want to say names. I don't need a name.

I just need to know, was it somebody there at the bar that night? Was it a waiter or a waitress? Was it the friend guy? It was the friend guy that returned the purse back to the guard. Aha. Okay. That's telling me a lot. What do you make of that, Cheryl McCollum?

Again, what I would focus on now is his cell phone pings. And if they have flock cameras picking up his car all over town, where did he go after going to his home? That's going to tell us. You know, Cheryl, that's a really good point. If he didn't go to the home, and we were hoping that. We know that he did go to the home. The's going to tell us... You know, Cheryl, that's a really good point. If he didn't go to the home, and we were hoping that... We know that he did go to the home. The cops have already told us that.

They believe he took her to the home. And what Cheryl is saying is, where did he go immediately after? David Fleming is with me. This is Gretchen's dad. David, has Gretchen ever stayed out of touch for this long? No.

There is no doubt in my mind she has met with foul play at this very moment. She could be being held against her will. There is a chance we can help bring Gretchen Fleming home alive. Tip line 304-424-1072. Repeat, 304-424-1072. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.