Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Beauty gets jilted, murders ex's new girlfriend

Episode Date: March 2, 2021

Cari Farver begins dating a new man, but things apparently don't work out. Farver breaks up with him via text. She breaks up with her family as well. She sends them texts, including her teen son, that she is moving out of state and does not want to see them, indefinitely. This begins a strange pattern of texting and stalking, but who is it really?Joining Nancy Grace Today:  Wendy Patrick - California prosecutor, author 'Red Flags', www.wendypatrickphd.com Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Beverly Hills, New Netflix show 'Bling Empire', www.drbethanymarshall.com  Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet" featured on "Poisonous Liaisons" on True Crime Network  Derek Ellington - Certified Computer Forensic Examiner, www.ellington.net Levi Page, Crime Online Investigative Reporter Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. And 160 plus texts a day later, are we any closer to knowing the truth about what happened to a beautiful young woman? Four years and 160 texts plus a day later. Do we ever get to the truth? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. With me, an all-star panel, but let's just start at the beginning of this nightmare story take a listen to our friends at crimeonline.com Dave Krupa and his longtime girlfriend Amy Flora have

two children together the couple separates after 12 years Flora decides to return to her hometown of Council Bluffs, Iowa. Krupa also moves from their home in Wisconsin so he can be near his children. He takes a job managing an auto repair shop. This newly single dad is on his own for the first time in a while. He decides it's time to jump back into the dating pool. In fact, Krupa signs up for a couple of dating sites. You have to appreciate his plight. He's been a faithful dad and husband for 12 years,

and now suddenly he's dumped back out there in the dating pool. How could things go so wrong? Again, I'm Nancy Grace. Thanks for being with us here at Crime Stories. With me, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags. Wendy, what's the name of your program? It's Today with Dr. Wendy on KCBQ Radio. Thanks, Nancy.

Today with Dr. Wendy on K-what? KCBQ. KCBQ. And she's at WendyPatrickPhD.com. Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst to the stars joining us out of beverly hills of course out of beverly hills star of a new netflix series bling empire and you can find her at drbethanymarshall.com derrick ellington certified computer forensic examiner that's not easy at ellington.net.

Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star of a brand new series on the True Crime Network, Poisonous Liaisons, Joseph Scott Morgan, refers to CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter Levi Page. So Dave Krupa and longtime love Amy Flora stay together 12 years, two children together. And where is it they moved to? So he's 35 years old, Nancy, and he moves to Omaha, Nebraska. And he has a job working as a manager of an as an auto repair shop at an auto repair shop, at an auto repair shop. Now, you say Omaha.

I thought it was in a smaller area, Council Bluffs, Iowa. Did I get that backwards? Well, his wife and children are living there. It's about an hour from where he lives in Omaha. Gotcha, gotcha. You know, Dr. Bethany Marshall, this is your thing. Bethany, joining us from Beverly Hills, renowned psychoanalyst. It's really hard, I think, I would imagine, after you've been in a long-term relationship, you've had twins.

When you're in that relationship, you don't think, wow, I better stay in shape. I better learn a lot of funny stories to tell when this whole thing blows up and I have to get back on the dating market. You don't anticipate that's going to happen. No, Nancy, your whole life has been wrapped up with your spouse and your children, little league games, art classes, all of that. You know, you don't exactly feel sexy. Although Freud wrote extensively about this he said that when you're in a marriage all your libido goes into the other person into your children and it doesn't go into the self but that when a person breaks up all that libido goes back into the self so they start working out they get a car, they start to get nice furniture for their apartment.

And this is what you see with singles, newly single people prepare themselves to date. But this poor guy, it sounds like he either had no money to begin with, or maybe he was quite generous, left everything with his wife. He was not exactly positioned to go out into the dating world. He had a rough beginning of it. Aside from the obvious emotional obstacles in starting over romantically, Derek Ellington, certified computer forensic examiner at Ellington.net, you also have to be practical about who you're meeting. How should you check these people out online? And just so you know, I did an entire segment of my new book, Don't Be a Victim, on online dating. I could write a whole book on it. But just give us some ideas, Derek.

Well, and Nancy, as you and I have talked before, there was a cartoon book on it. But just give us some ideas, Derek. Well, and Nancy, as you and I have talked before, there was a cartoon I saw once. It had two little dogs sitting in front of a computer. And one dog says to the other, the great thing about the Internet is nobody knows you're a dog. And what you're what you're able to do is to be anybody you want to be. You can present, you know, your, your image that you want everybody else to see. And unfortunately, I think people who are, who are online dating, they're, they're looking for love. They're, they're very hopeful. So they tend to paint things in a very hopeful way. So it's tough, you know, you, we, we out ways to to be critical, to not believe everything we see and we read. But but it's tough. We work a lot of cases where people get sucked in on the dating sites.

And next thing you know, they're sending huge amounts of money to people because they get caught up in these hard luck stories that are that are just not true. A lot of grifters, a lot of scammers on the internet, unfortunately. You know what? You're absolutely right. But don't knock it because my nephew met a woman online. He dated several women he met online, ended up marrying one of them. They've now been married, I guess, four or five years, have a baby boy, just bought a house. They seem so happy. So, you know, knock on wood, it does work. You just got to be so wary.

But in this case, David Krupa does put his toe in the water. Take a listen to our friends at 2020. The first person Dave met on an online dating site was a woman by the name of Liz Gallier. Her full name is Shanna Elizabeth Gallier, but she went by her middle name, Liz. Liz was a single mother with two children and her kids were about the same age as Dave's kids. She had a business, Liz's Housekeeping. Liz loved taking selfies and sending them to her friends. I thought Liz was very pretty. I was attracted to her right away.

So then we set up a date. Dave's first dates with Liz were at a coffee shop, and they just sat and chatted. She was sexy. She was bright and shiny. And she was very engaging. They had a lot of fun together. They got along really well.

And it was just a very casual thing. And just right here, I've just got to say, while he's having a good experience with his first date with this woman, there's so many things if you're on the dating scene and you're internet dating, online dating. Number one, meet somewhere in public for your first date. Don't let them come to your office or where you live to pick you up. Meet them somewhere in public, well lit. Don't have them walk you to your car or walk you home. Listen to me. On your profile, don't be leaning up against your car. They cannot be identified, much less your tag. Don't be in front of your office where you can be traced to your office. Don't be in front of your home. Don't be anywhere that you can be identified and found. Go by your first name only. Don't give too much away about yourself. Some people even go to the extent of using a phone app for dating that rings

with a different phone number than your actual regular number. And it's an app you put on your cell phone. So the people that you're encountering online don't have a way to trace to your real phone because then once they have your cell number, they can then find out your background, your full name, everything about you. Yes, it's real. crime stories with nancy grace guys will we ever know the truth about what happened in this case. Right now, we've got David Krupa, dad of two, out on the dating market just putting his toe into the dating pool.

Take a listen to our friend Keith Morrison. I'm working. I'm behind the counter. I'm doing 10 things. It happened in an auto repair shop to a mechanic named Dave Krupa. She walks in, I see her, we meet eyes, and just for a moment I kind of stop and I go, well, hello. He was working.

She wanted her SUV repaired. And, you know, in the back of my mind I'm thinking, wow, she's gorgeous, but I'm at work, I'm representing the company I work for, that's off the table, it's not a possibility. But did you detect a little sort of signal coming back your way? I thought I did. And then a few weeks later, it seemed like fate. Dave went on a dating website, and there she was.

Her profile, her picture, her name, Carrie. He started typing. I just said, hey, I know you, ha ha. And she replied, same thing. So let me understand the timeline. Levi Page, David Krupa has put his toe in the dating pool. He had a date with a young woman named Liz Gallier. Then we have this woman.

Explain to me the timeline there. Carrie Farver. Yeah, he met her six months after he moved to Omaha in 2012. And they met at the auto repair shop that he was managing. Wait, now you're talking about Carrie Farver. He met her at the auto repair.

Okay, well, what about uh liz gollier had they already had their date yeah they had already been on a few dates and he let her know that he was not wanting to be exclusive or serious with anyone he just got out of a while wait wait wait wait wait wait okay let me understand something um Dr. Bethany Marshall, explain that to me. Because, see, if I was sitting alone in my apartment on a lawn chair and I had nothing else and I had just busted up with my longtime love, my two children were living an hour away, and I managed to snag a job, I'm working all the time, I would have a hard time telling somebody,

hey, we're not exclusive because I'm totally the best thing you're going to find. What? He's not playing his hand right. No. There's a number of things you never say on a first date. You do not say, I don't want to be exclusive. You don't say, I have a terminal illness. You don't say, my family, they're all alcoholics. You don't say, I just filed for bankruptcy. You do not spill the contents of your mind. You hold a few cards

close to the vest. You mean the bad cards? Is that a little bit like false advertising though? You hide the relatives in the closet and hope they all don't jump out and question your new partner. You know, Helen Fisher, who's a cultural anthropologist says she does brain scans. And she says that when you first meet somebody, the experience of falling in love, the activity in the brain, it mimics doing cocaine. There's such a dopamine surge that you cannot know the reality of who you're dating for at least six months. It takes six months of dating for that. I got to correct you, Miss Bethany Marshall, Dr. Bethany, because I really did not know what I had a hold of until David and I were married and we were raising the twins.

I thought he was great, but I didn't know how great he was until we got married. And let me just say, you know what hit the fan with me being in ICU the twins being in ICU everything going crazy for the longest time you know I'd been in a wheelchair with the twins you remember my pregnancy and David was there every step of the way and still is so you know sometimes it takes longer than six months.

What now? Well, this supports what she's saying. She says that month seven or eight, you begin to know the reality of who that other person is. And then all that heightened sexuality and passion at the beginning gives way to something better, which is meaning, devotion, and love for each other. You know, Nancy and Dr. Bethany, one of the things that you both are saying is that early on in a dating relationship, you're not focused on credibility but chemistry. And unfortunately, due to this endorphin that Dr. Bethany is talking about, that sometimes overrides the red flags I talk about in my book and, Nancy, that you talk about in your book on your victim on the chapter on online dating because we're not paying attention to the external cues that maybe we should have been because we might have made better decisions. You made a great choice, Nancy, but not everybody is lucky enough to meet, especially on online dating sites, somebody that's going to turn out to be that credible. Well, I can't take any credit. I think the Lord was really looking out for me.

It was a fluke that I ended up with David and one of the best things that ever happened to me. But I cannot take the credit. You know, guys, we were talking about this young man, David Krupa, just out of a 12-year relationship. He has a couple of online dates with one woman, her name Liz Goyer. Then he meets Carrie Farver. Now, thankfully, he and Liz had made it clear to each other that they did not want to be exclusive. What led him to say that that early on in the relationship? Take a listen to our friends at Dateline. He invited Carrie back to his place and she agreed.

And that's when something else happened. Just as they walked into the apartment, the doorbell rang. It was Dave's ex-girlfriend, Liz, here to pick up some things she'd left behind in his apartment. Awkward. But Carrie just laughed, bowed out. She said, I get it.

It's not a big deal. I'm going to go home. You call me when you're done dealing with this mess. So Dave escorted Carrie to the door. And her and Liz passed each other at that moment. Yeah. There were no words spoken. So let me understand. Levi Page, explain to me, how is it that although they didn't want to be exclusive, Liz Goyer already had her stuff at his apartment?

Yeah, she had some things at the apartment and she popped over unannounced and Farver had been staying at his apartment a lot because she lived an hour away in Iowa but her office where she was working as a computer programmer was near her near his apartment so she was over there a lot uh-oh so the two women meet now I thought they weren't exclusive for Pete's sake, but you know what I found, Dr. Bethany Marshall? Have you found that when people break up, they have an excuse why they have to go back and get what? My bobby pin I left on your kitchen counter last week? You know, why do you have to go back and get something that obviously you're not missing anyway? Nancy, I always say leave it behind.

Leave it alone. Okay, so you left your cutest top at your boyfriend's house and you broke up. Leave it there. But, you know, people agonize, women especially. Oh, I have my hairbrush, my makeup. You know, should I just ask them to put it in a bag? Who cares? Shall I go over? Just run back on over to the CVS and get some new cover, girl. Get some more. Get some more mascara. You're fine. I think it's a reason, an excuse to go back to see the person that you've broken up with. Take a listen to this. Dave Krupa and Carrie Farver's relationship is short-lived. In November, she broke up with her

new boyfriend through a text message from her phone. Just after that, another message was sent to her boss, quitting her job, and then more. She stopped going home to see her family, even her teenage son, who was in high school. Then text messages and social media updates begin. Farver tells her family she needs a break. She's moving to Kansas to take a new job and she doesn't want to see any of them indefinitely. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Guys, we are talking about a very odd scenario. This guy, new on the dating scene after a 12-year relationship, has a few online dates with a woman named Liz Gollier.

Then he meets Carrie Farverver and he falls for her. But suddenly she up and leaves, texting him, bye-bye, an online breakup. But she doesn't just break up with him. She breaks up with her family, her job, and takes off to Kansas to start all over again. You know, I could buy all that, Joseph Scott Morgan, you're the professor of forensics, except how do you break up with your son? I mean, you know what? I go to hell and back to get my twins, to get to my twins.

I find that part very hard to believe. Yeah. Yeah. Kim and I were sitting around the other night just reflecting over this past year and how hard it's been. You know, he went off to basic training and all these sorts of things. He was out of our life for that period of time, COVID. And, you know, it really gives you pause. You know, this is the small being that you've raised. You know, you were there. I was there to clip his cord, you know, when he was born. How do you just walk away from that? And not just that, sight unseen. I don't want to see any of you people, and that's inclusive.

That's all inclusive. We're talking about mom, dad, this precious son that she has. I don't want to see any of you guys, and not only that, I'm going away to another state. And for me as an investigator, that's a red flag. But the problem with this, Nancy, and we've run into this time and time again with missing persons cases, for instance, if someone goes to the cops and says, Hey, I want to report my daughter missing. If they're of age at that point in time,

you know, the cops will look at you and say, look, you got this electronic trail that's left behind. They're saying they don't want anything to do with you. You know, c'est la vie. And there's also the issue of routine evidence. And I really don't like the name of that, Joe Scott. But what it means is not everyday evidence that you see all the time. It's evidence of a routine. There was no indication that this woman, Carrie Farver, had ever left her son, her family, refused to speak to them. As a matter of fact, take a listen to our friends on Tangled Web. Carrie's mother had filed the missing person report with the police, and she was becoming increasingly concerned with each passing day. In the weeks after she left, Carrie was still communicating with her family.

She would send text messages to her mother, Nancy. When I'd get text messages, I would just say, please call me. I just need to hear your voice. And she would say, well, this has got to be good enough for you. Whoa, just the text has to be good enough for you? That's contrary to her years and years and years routine behavior.

While Carrie's family is concerned that she just up and moves to Kansas, Dave Krupa, the guy who fell for her, had a completely different reaction when Carrie Farver disappears to Kansas. Take a listen to our friends at 20-20. While Carrie's family was afraid for her, Dave Krupa was growing afraid of her. I would regularly receive 60 plus texts a day, a hundred emails a day. It was not uncommon. And as far as phone calls, hundreds of hundreds. And I had changed phone numbers so many times, it was ridiculous. Carrie's rage seemed to be focused on his ex-girlfriend, Liz, who he had dated just before he started dating Carrie. Carrie sent messages like, she is nothing.

She's a fat cow. She looks like she lost her puppy. Maybe she'll do us all a favor and kill herself, LOL. She wrote to Liz, if you don't keep your hands and lips off my man, I will hurt you. And she seems to be everywhere. On one specific occasion, I was sitting at my lazy boy with my feet up, watching TV, trying to relax, and it's nighttime. And I get a text saying, I see you, you're sitting in your

chair with your feet propped up, wearing a blue shirt, and those things were true. Okay, I'm 2,000 miles away, and it's creeping me out. Jump in, Dr. Bethany Marshall. Well, it seems like whoever's sending these texts have become obsessed with him. I mean, this is stalking behavior, right? When somebody becomes obsessed with another person and the person with whom they're obsessed, they have no true or actual relationship. I mean, sure, maybe they've gone out on a couple of dates, maybe they had a glass of wine together, they met for coffee, but there's nothing beyond that. And yet she becomes obsessed with him and then stuck in feelings of rejection. Like you and I've talked about so many times,

it's a stalking behavior. When the perpetrator imagines there's a special and unique relationship, even when there's no evidence to support that and they go after the victim for perceived rejection. I think it's deeper than that, Dr. Bethany. I think it's the rejection. It's not the rejection of a guy you've dated

for a month or two. It's not the rejection of a guy you've dated for, you know, a month or two. It's that that rejection triggers something else inside of you. Not just that one person rejecting you, but a feeling that you as a person have been rejected. What's wrong with me? What did I do wrong? Why her, not me? And here we see, you know, that's for you. You're the shrink. I'm just the trial lawyer. You're like a true psychoanalyst, Nancy. You're thinking

like a psychoanalyst now, which I love. Now I'm scared. Wendy Patchett, California prosecutor and author of Red Flags. Hello, Red Flags. Here we see her not just going after David Krupa, who she dated, and he totally fell for her. She moves away, but she's also going after, remember, Liz Goyer that he dated and met at the coffee shop? She goes after her and starts texting her incessantly. Yeah, when you read these text messages, what it really sounds like is not just that she was angry at him, but it basically she took it so personally that she ended up getting triggered for this insecurity, this obsession. Her focus became fixation, not just with her relationship, but with anybody else this man dared have a relationship with. Yeah, I find it very interesting that people, men and women, in a relationship,

when your partner breaks up, you blame the other woman or the other man. They didn't know you a duty. It was your partner. Guys, it goes beyond just a few messages. Take a listen to our friends at CrimeOnline.com. Krupa and Gollier received dozens of harassing messages. The pair make repeated complaints to police for years. Investigations show the messages were sent from accounts bearing Farver's name. Soon, the threats become all too real. Gollier's house was set on fire, killing her pets. And that's when Golyer tells police that

maybe it's not Farver sending the messages. Farver and Krupa had actually only dated for a couple of weeks, but he had had a long-term relationship and children with Amy Flora. Maybe she was a better suspect. Oh my goodness, who's sending all of these messages? You know, Derek Ellington, Certified Computer Forensic Examiner at ellington.net. Derek, how do you go about tracing who is sending texts? And that's a whole nother psychological can of worms about who would take on if it's not, if it's not Carrie Farver, who would take on her identity. But to you, Derek Ellington, how do you trace

who's sending texts when you see it's from that person's phone? Well, and it can be tough. It can be tough to trace a text message. Law enforcement does have some capabilities. When you're using traditional text messaging, we can find out who it is through the carrier records and stuff like that. It gets tougher when people start using the apps and the websites and stuff to send texts, though, law enforcement can sometimes, if we can find the app that the person is using or the website that they're using, then we can have some ways to track back, like, you know, by IP address or something, track it back to their phone. But, yes, admittedly, it's difficult with the availability of these apps and spoofing websites and things like that.

Now, hold on just a moment. Apps and spoofing websites. Be clear for listeners that don't know what you're talking about. What kind of app or spoofing website would hide or mimic someone else's cell number. Correct. There's a lot of those out there. And the basic idea is that there are apps. I don't want to name them to not give them press, but there are apps that you can get,

there are websites you can go to. And basically, you can either sign up for a number that is yours, which allows you to send and receive, but it's an untraceable number. It's not tied back to you. Or you can even go to websites and say, I wanted to send somebody a message and it looks like it came from you, Nancy. If I had your cell phone number, I could put it in there as the from number and I could send somebody a text message and it would look like it came from you. Crime stories with Nancy grace, this guy, David Cripp and now getting 160 plus texts a day. Take a listen to this 911 call.

911, what's the address of your emergency? Oh yeah, I've been shot in the leg. Okay, where are you at? I'm at the park by the Sheriff's Department. Big Lake Park? Yes. Do you know who did it? No. Okay, what's your phone number? And that's from the Potawatali

County Sheriff's Office. Take a listen to more on that 911 call. When did this happen? I just wanted somebody to walk 911 call. When did this happen? Okay. Is the assailant still there? Which way? How many people were there? Oh, I don't know. I only heard one. Do you know if it was a male or a female? A female.

Do you know which way? I was in the opposite direction that I went in. I don't know. Straight out to Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Who is shot in the leg? So what you just heard is Shana Liz Golier, who called 911. She said that she was walking alone at night in 2015 at Big Lake Park, and someone shot her in the leg. You know, shot in the leg. Just got Morgan, professor of forensics and death investigator.

You shoot somebody in the femoral artery at the top of the leg, they're dead. They bleed out just like that. Yeah, you can. You know, the femoral artery splits off of the base of the aorta, which is the largest vessel in the body. So, yeah, you can bleed out easily. I think as an investigator, I'd want to know specifically where she was shot anatomically, you know, what portion of the leg. And also, I want to get her close. If she, which obviously she would go into the emergency room, I'd want to check things like

range of fire. You know, she's telling me she's just been assaulted by another woman with a firearm and the other woman ran away. This is atypical, Nancy, all the way around. Highly atypical. And right now, apparently, the victim, Shanna Liz Goyer, is saying it's not Carrie Farver, the girlfriend. It's not her, the one that moved away. Maybe it's David Krupa's longtime love, his common-law wife, so to speak, the mother of his two children that lives just one hour away. So I want you to take a listen to Hour Cut 12.

This is a call. We get Liz Gall,ier home from the hospital. This is a call between detectives and Liz Gallier seeking Gallier's help. See if you could kind of push her for some more info on the Carrie thing. What she did to Carrie and so forth like that, that would help our case immensely if it was more specific. So you guys want me to try and email her back? I'm leaving that in your court, Liz. I mean, if that's something you would feel okay doing, that'd be really helpful for us.

So you're hearing from our friends at Tangled Web 2020. Let me understand to you levi page crime online.com detectives then elicit gollier to try to lure in the ex the ex the mother of the children to reveal it's really her is that's what is that what's happening right now? Yes. So Liz Golger had been shot and she said that it was Amy Flora, Dave Krupa's ex, the mother of his two children. And she is communicating with Liz and they want to get a confession out of her. Not only that she shot Liz, but that she was responsible for Carrie Farver's disappearance. The plot begins to thicken. Now Liz Goyer, the girlfriend, reveals an email sent by the ex, Amy Flora.

Listen to this. I think now are we finding out what happened to Carrie when she moved away? Listen. When I met crazy Carrie, she would not stop talking about Dave and him being her husband. She tried to attack me, but I attacked her with a knife. I stabbed her three or four times in the chest and stomach area and then took her out and burned her. I stuffed her body in a garbage can with crap. The details were bone chilling because they were graphic. You're hearing detectives read an email allegedly sent by the ex of 12 years, the mother of the two boys, Amy Flora, to Liz Gallier, the one on the dating website.

Wow. So there we have Amy Flora confessing to murdering Carrie. Do we have the answer yet about what happened to Carrie? Listen. We opened up this door. We pulled out the passenger seat, and we pulled off the fabric off that passenger seat, and that's where we found that big red stain right in the bottom of the seat.

It was a positive test for human blood. I felt like we had located the murder scene finally. Tangible evidence finally, instead of digital evidence. We took the DNA from the blood that we found on the seat, and it was a match for Kerry Farver's DNA. It's a huge moment. It changed this from a missing persons investigation, and now it's a homicide investigation.

So Carrie, this innocent woman, Carrie Farver, her blood is drenching the seat of this car. That was the primary murder crime scene. To you, Joe Scott Morgan, she didn't move away. She's dead. No, I urge all of our listeners to go online and take a look at this image. I looked at it and I was shocked, Nancy. This is what we would refer to as a super saturated site. It's evidence of what we, in fancy terms, what we'd say as copious amounts of blood. It's a lot of blood, Nancy.

It went through the top layer of the seat, through the foam padding, and down to the base level. And right you are when you say that this is the primary site. Nancy, she would have had to have sat there for a protracted period of time for all of this blood to drain down, let's just say from the chest area, between her legs, around her legs, through her own clothing, and then seep down into the fabric of the seat. She was there for a while. She, in my opinion at least, I think that she probably breathed her last right there in that very spot where the police were taking a look and had taken that scene out of the car. Yeah, there can't be that much blood and the person still be alive.

So, the bizarre nature of the ex of 12 years, the mother of the two children, carrying a torch for David Krupa all this time. Wait a minute. Another twist. Listen to Detective Dave Schneider. Now, the reason why you're in this chair right now today is because you have a lot of questions that you need to answer for me. Her phone was at your house right after she disappeared. I want to ask you how you can explain that to me, please. She's never been to my house. Your fingerprints are inside her vehicle. How would your fingerprints be inside her vehicle? I don't know, because I've never been in her car.

You drove her car. No, I didn't. I've never been inside her car. I've never even been around her car. Ever. Your fingerprints are in there. No, I haven't. I'm not lying. I've never been around her car. I've never even seen it. Guys, you're not hearing the voice of the ex of 12 years, the mother of the two boys of David Krupa. You are hearing the online dating, girlfriend. It's Shanna Liz Goyer.

Let me understand, Levi Pace, so for four years, Goyer has been pretending to be the dead woman? You are absolutely correct, Nancy. And Liz Goyer's fingerprint was found inside the vehicle of Carrie Farver. Not only that, Carrie Farver's phone, her camera, and belongings were found inside Liz Golier's apartment. Isn't it true that there was a photo of a decomposed foot found on Golier's phone? You're absolutely right. It was a tablet, and they searched the tablet,

and there was a photo of a foot on Liz Gallagher's phone. And it had the Chinese word for mother on the ankle, the same tattoo that Caitlin Farver has. Derek Ellington, was there any way police could have busted this case before now? I mean, they had no reason to suspect the online dating profile girl, Liz Gawyer. Nancy, that's what's heartbreaking about this case, especially for the Farber family and for her son. While the law enforcement did an excellent job once they decided to pursue the case, I believe it was a failure of law enforcement from the beginning. They had so many resources, even stuff they talk about tracking the cell tower data for the phone, following the text messages, even emails. Emails give you so much more of an ability to trace somebody than a text message. And the takeaway, I believe, is if you're in the situation where

a family member is missing and you have a concern, you have to be the squeaky wheel. You have to stay on top of it. So again, the initial failure of law enforcement is heartbreaking. Once they decided to take the case serious, it just all fell into place. Dr. Bethany Marshall, I need to shrink and how. Explain this. How could this woman pose as the dead victim, Carrie Farver? I mean, she only dated David Krupa for two weeks, right? And then she moved away. She was dead all this time.

And apparently Liz Goyer was sending 160 texts plus a day to Krupa, to Carrie Farber's family, or years. Nancy, I'll never forget a show I was on on HLN with you, your show, The Nancy Grace Show. And we were covering a case of a woman who was stalking another woman. And the stalker had taken up residence in the basement underneath her victim's house. Not even the basement, actually. It was just the floorboards. She had herself squeezed right under the floorboards so she could hear all of the activities and the phone conversations and the life of the woman she was stalking.

And that was my first introduction to how serious stalking can be. Beyond what you read in the literature or all the studies that this was a face to this kind of crime. In this case, what I think is fascinating is Gallagher not only stalks a man she has been dating for two weeks. But in some ways, she assumes the identity of Farber, not just to throw people off the track that she's killed Farber, but also she takes a symbol of Farber's motherhood. You know that there's a tattoo indicating that she's a mother on her foot. Gollier takes a picture of the decomposing foot. It's as if she was stalking both victims, the mother who had a beautiful life

and the so-called boyfriend she had dated for two weeks as if everybody else's life is better than hers. She's full of envy. She feels rejected. It taps into something historical for her, and she kind of morphs into those people's lives and becomes them in some very sick, pathological way. Guys, don't worry. This woman, Shannon Liz Goyer, is serving life behind bars for the murder of her perceived love rival, the victim Carrie Farver, then posing as

her on social media for four years to cover up the crime, left behind the victim's family wondering what happened. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend.