Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Beloved Spanish Teacher Murdered, Suspect to Testify Against Friend

Episode Date: April 14, 2023

Willard Noble Chaiden Miller and Jeremy Everett Goodale, both 16, are accused of killing 66-year-old Nohema Graber. The boys were students at Fairfield High School in Fairfield, where Graber had been teaching Spanish since 2012.  Now Jeremy Goodale has agreed to testify against Willard Miller.  Goodale and Miller are each charged with first-degree murder in the November 2021 death of 66-year-old Nohema Graber. Police found Graber’s remains November 3, at the Chautauqua Park in Fairfield. A tipster led investigators to the teens. Police say social media evidence ties both suspects to Graber's death. According to a criminal complaint, in a social media exchange, the teens appeared to know specific details regarding Graber’s death, included how the teacher died, and the motive.  Police say a bad grade was the motive behind the killing.  Joining Nancy Grace Today: Wendy Patrick - California prosecutor, author “Red Flags” www.wendypatrickphd.com 'Today with Dr. Wendy' on KCBQ in San Diego, Twitter: @WendyPatrickPHD Dr. Jorey Krawczyn - Police Psychologist, Faculty Saint Leo University; Consultant Blue Wall Institute, Author: Operation S.O.S Bobby Chacon - 27 years former FBI Agent, BobbyChacon.com, Instagram/Twitter: @BobbyChaconFBI, Writer and Co-producer: Audible Original Series, "After the Fall" Dr. Tim Gallagher - Medical Examiner State of Florida www.pathcaremed.com, Lecturer: University of Florida Medical School Forensic Medicine. Founder International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference Brian Tabick - Reporter, KCRG-TV9 (Iowa), Twitter: @BrianTabick   Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A beloved Spanish teacher dead. Now, let's deal with the little minions from hell. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. You know, we always hear about conspiracies. I don't really believe in conspiracies when they come to criminal law.

Too, too much. You know why? Because nobody can keep their trap shut. And this case proves it. Example. How many times have we heard, oh, there was a big conspiracy to frame OJ Simpson? Like, why? He was a beloved football star.

You know why that never happened with O.J. Simpson? Because if anyone had been part of that conspiracy, they would have blabbed by now. And there would be a million dollar book advance paid to get the quote real story. The real story is he murdered two people. That's the real story. Now, what does that have to do with a beloved Spanish teacher dead? Well, in the last days, one of the two Iowa teens charged with bludgeoning their Spanish teacher dead over a bad grade. Yes, they killed her over a bad grade. One of the two teens has agreed to blab, oh excuse me, cooperate and testify for the state against the other. That's right. A murder

suspect, now 17, younger when it happened, has reached a deal. Oh, a deal with the devil. But as I've always said, and it tasted like a dirt sandwich in my mouth, sometimes you have to go to hell to get the witness to put the devil in jail. Ugh. Murder suspect Jeremy Goodale has reached a deal with prosecutors. He will testify against his former best friend slash classmate Willard Miller. The two have been charged as adults with murder one and the 2021 death of a,

I just don't know how else to say it, a beloved teacher. Doesn't everyone have a beloved teacher? Mine was my second grade teacher. Oh, Ms. Claribel Bryant. I'll never forget her. A beloved Spanish teacher, bludgeoned dead and dumped in a Fairfield Park. Now, it's really interesting. This case has been going on since 2021, and there's nothing that will get you a cooperating witness faster than bringing in a jury panel. This case is set to go forward to trial, and there you go. One of them blinks, takes a plea, and rats. How did we get here?

Take a listen to our friend Les Trent at Inside Edition. Weema Graber taught Spanish at Fairfield High School in Iowa. Hola, que tal, buenas noches. She was recently praised by a student during National Teacher Appreciation Week. Happy Teacher Appreciation Week, Mrs. Graber. Thank you for all that you do in and out of the classroom. We really appreciate how much fun we have in your class and how much Spanish we learn. And we just hope you have a really good day. Gracias. She was a classy lady. She was a dedicated lady. she cared deeply about

the kids as people the teacher was reported missing on wednesday her body was found under a tarp in the park later that day okay right there that stops me in my tracks because the scene was staged now staging does not require any elaborate detail, although very often there is elaborate detail, such as posing the body or shifting around the clothing. Any change or movement to a crime scene is staging. And would you agree, I'm going to introduce your panel in just a second, but first to Bobby Chacon, former FBI agent. He's at BobbyChacon.com and he's writer, co-producer of After This Fall on Audible. If I went through all of his credits, we would use the whole program.

Bobby, wouldn't you agree that staging a scene and that includes trying to hide the body. I've had bodies hidden, covered in leaves, covered in branches, in a shallow grave, hidden under a tree, a wastebasket put over the head. A million ways to try to hide the face or the body. That is staging. And the reason it stops me in my tracks is because that tells me a lot about the killer. A random killer hits it and quits it. They're gone. Somebody else stages the scene, sticks around long enough to stage. Explain it, Bobby. Yeah, well, we call that kind of forensic countermeasures sometimes because they're trying to hide what they've done. And oftentimes it also can indicate premeditation because sometimes they've already pre-purchased the things that they're going to use to try to hide the body, a shovel, a tarp that they

brought with them to the crime scene. So you have indications of their sophistication in trying to forensically compromise the scene. And then you have possible premeditation. They knew what they were going to do because they went out and they bought the things that they used then to hide the body or they somehow secured those things and brought them with them you immediately made me think of movies if somebody asked you to go for a ride and they've got a shovel don't go because every time in a movie they use a shovel and whack you in the head or at least dig the grave you're right don't go shovel and whack you in the head or at least dig the grave. You're right.

Don't go. If they have a bed and a lie in the trunk, you don't get in the car. If they have a bed and a lie in the trunk, don't get in the car. With a tarp and Clorox in the backseat, don't go. So, yes, premeditation. And here we see her body covered with a tarp. Guys, with me, California prosecutor, author, Red Flags on Amazon, at WendyPatrickPhD.com. She's the host of Today with Dr. Wendy, WKCBQSanDiego,

Dr. Jory Croson, psychologist, faculty, St. Leo University, consultant, and author of Operation SOS. You just heard Bobby Chacon, former Fed with the FBI. Dr. Tim Gallagher, the medical examiner for the entire state of Florida. He never toots his own horn, which I admire, but he is the lecturer at University of Florida Medical School in Forensic Medicine, and he is the founder of the International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference. A lot of people wouldn't like that. I would be in heaven if I were at the International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference.

But first, I want to go to Brian Tabak, special guest joining us. He's a reporter with KCRG-TV9 in Iowa. Brian, when I think of a school, I think of a very sedate, calm, in my mind, I think of a brick structure with a playground and a soccer field and very calm and serene setting. But that's just my stereotype in my head. Tell me about this area there in Fairfield, Iowa. So your description of the school is actually pretty point out. It's a very, it's a brick building out in Fairfield, Iowa. Fairfield's about two hours from Des Moines. Our population is about 10,000 people.

Very small community. Literally the saying in Iowa is everybody knows everybody in some of these small towns. And that's just the case when you talk about Fairfields. Going to Vigil, you can just see the town really kind of come together and remember Noe McGraver as the teacher she was. You know, I'm thinking about what you said, 10,000 people. And I want to go to Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags. Crime happens everywhere. Remember Molly Tibbetts, the university student who would go jogging?

She was jogging out in cornfields when she was attacked and murdered. Crime happens everywhere, but it happens less often in rural or suburban areas. So that, in addition to the scene being staged, gives me a clue about the killer. Rural area. What does that tell you, Wendy? Absolutely. In a rural area, not only do people, are they more likely to know each other, but they're likely to know each other's routines. Does she walk in a certain place every day?

Where does she live? How does she get to school? Especially when you're an educator. I mean, we probably still remember some of the names of our high school instructors because they've made that kind of an impression on us. How much more is that dynamic true in a small town? And I was just thinking it just came to mind. And I believe you and I talked about this. Dr. Tim Gallagher joining me out of Florida, the Tara Grinstead case. She was a high school history teacher. Her students loved her. And then out of the blue, she just disappears.

Her home in disarray, in slight disarray. You'd have to know her. I went into her home. It was like a little jewelry box, perfectly decorated. She was one of those people, Dr. Gallagher, that kept everything in its place. Her car, she obviously didn't have children yet. Her car was pristine and perfect. It still smelled like a new car. In her home, one of the legs on the bed had been jerked away from the bed. Pearls were broken and were on the floor. That's almost all that was wrong in the home.

She would never have let that happen. And her car had mud all over the side of it. And the driver's seat was pulled back. So, I mean, when you look at facts like that, you know something is very, very wrong. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In the last hours, we learned that one of the two minions from hell have agreed to turn state's evidence against the other in exchange for a plea deal. Mm, mm, mm. The victim, Señora Graber, a Spanish teacher at Fairfield High, was beaten dead with a baseball bat after the students got bad grades. Now, investigators say that Miller, one of the minions from hell, met with Senora Graber at Fairfield High School the afternoon of November 2 to discuss his very poor grade in her classes.

Oh, gosh, I'm looking at a picture of her right now. She's in an ice cream shop with a double scoop with a big smile on her face. So they meet to discuss his bad grade. You know, a lot of teachers wouldn't have even bothered to discuss it. She later drove her van to a park. Everybody knew she took a daily walk in the park immediately after school. Witnesses saw her van leaving the park less than an hour later with two white males in the front seat. Then the van was left abandoned at the end of a rural road. After getting a call from Goodale, one of the defendants,

a witness later picked up Goodale and Miller as they walked to town on that very same road, say investigators. Miller, when interviewed with police, described the frustrations he had with the way Senora Graber taught Spanish. And over the grade in his class that was lowering his GPA. Well, he's got a lot more to worry about now than a low GPA. I can tell you that much. I just don't understand how two seemingly normal high school students could end up murdering a teacher that everybody loved. Well, listen. In all the years I was prosecuting

homicides in inner city Atlanta, a huge percentage of them were drug related turk wars and this is what happened drugs came in at a port in florida to miami and then miami would infect the rest of the southeast with its drugs and uh drug meals would come straight up 75 first big stop atlanta and the murders would commence my point is to back to brian tabak reporter kgrg tv9 iowa the fact that it's a very rural setting also also tells me a lot about who my perp is going to be. Guys, this beloved teacher, just lovely, Noema Graber, found in the Chautauqua Park. Why was she there? Take a listen to our friend Jackie Howard. One of Noema Graber's favorite pastimes is walking, and the place she liked to walk was the Chautauqua Park. She did it every afternoon. And that was the last place she was seen on November 2nd.

Her family reported her missing and police found Graber's body the next day in the park under a tarp, wheelbarrow and railroad ties. Detectives wrote that their preliminary investigation indicated Graber suffered inflicted trauma to the head. What does that say to you, Dr. Jory? Well, it kind of sends a message, like we talked about the premedication that came along with it possibly in the planning. But leaving the body, you know, if it were a robbery, you'd do a blitz attack, hit her, steal, and leave. But, you know, it takes time to cover the body with a tarp, a wheelbarrow, and then with railroad ties. And that's time spent on the body with a tarp, a wheelbarrow, and then with railroad ties.

And that's time spent on the crime scene, possibly leaving more clues, but also possibly getting caught. Dr. Tim Gallagher, based on what you're hearing from Dr. Jory Croson, we're hearing that her head had, quote, inflicted trauma. What does that mean dr gallagher uh typically what it would mean is there are lacerations to the skull and that there are skull fractures as well as brain damage bleeding on the brain or maybe even the shards of the broken skull uh penetrating their way into the brain and destroying the brain that way. So generally, this is done with a, we call it a blunt type instrument, something such as a baseball bat, a metal pipe, or some very heavy object could even be a stone that they had found in the park.

All of these types of things when they strike the head cause blunt force trauma to the head and brain damage and a resulting death because of that. I've heard nothing about her being sex assaulted. Brian Tabak, do we know anything about a sex assault? That I have never heard, no. Yeah, and if she was out walking in a park, I doubt she would have been carrying anything to be stolen. Like, I mean, she's a school teacher. You really think she's going to have a lot of expensive jewelry or

a Rolex watch or a fanny pack stuffed with thousands of dollars in cash? I doubt it. So what is the motive? No robbery, no sex attack. Take a listen to Kayla James, KCCI. We spoke with our grieving. It feels like something

that would happen in TV. Definitely not something that would happen in small town Iowa.. But it did and now the community of Fairfield is mourning the loss of well-loved teacher Nohema Graber. Her overall like energy was very good. I would walk past her in the halls and she would say hi to almost every single student. She stopped me. She talked about like life. She talked about the sports i do a spanish teacher at fairfield high known by many as someone who enjoyed walking the paths of chautauqua park that's where investigators found her body wednesday signs of trauma to her head everyone liked her like i don't get why someone would do this because like who hates her she's nice and in almost premonition, take a listen to our friends KCCI.

A special memorial is set up on a fence next to the high school. Flowers, pictures, and condolences. The DCI says they're getting plenty of cooperation in their investigation, but they still want your help. If anybody, you know, students or adults has any information, we still want them to come forward with it, whether they saw anything taking place last week in and around the park area none of us anticipated anything like this librarian alex mcunis met graber at the fairfield library last week one day before she died she was there to take a look at a day of the dead display celebrating mexican heritage she told the local

newspaper quote we all know we're going to die. It's our way of laughing at death. Now the display is a memorial to her life. To any Patrick California prosecutor and author, so often when I prosecuted homicide cases or investigate them, you see odd premonitions or you have friends or family members say, she said this was going to happen. She was afraid. Here, Nahima was not afraid, but she definitely was making sense of the day of the dead

less than 24 hours before she's murdered. That was something that really caught my attention, Nancy. In connection with where she was found. I mean, it's true staging requires strategy, but she's found in the same park where anybody would have known to look for her. This was apparently a routine that she had. So that in combination with just having discussed her own death is definitely something as part of the timeline that as a prosecutor, I'd be looking at and trying to put this together. Take a listen to Tash Simmons, WHO 13.

Graber was reported missing yesterday. The authorities later on that day found her body in this remote area of Chautauqua Park, which is just down the street from the school she devoted her life to. According to the criminal complaint, whoever killed Graber tried to hide her body under a tarp, a wheelbarrow, and railroad ties. Investigators believe Graber was killed by an impact or several impacts to her head. You know, Brian Tabak joining me, KCRG, where was the park in relation to the school? Did she go there at lunchtime or after school? I couldn't tell you the time that she went there.

I just know that she went there pretty much every day to go walk. And according to court documents, it was in the afternoon time. So it could have been during lunch or after school. But it's not far. It's within a few blocks of the park. Very easy to even just walk there right after school or during your lunch hour, you can make it there pretty quickly. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In the last hours, we learn a pact with the devil has been made over the murder of a very loved Spanish teacher, Señora Graber. At first, Miller denied any involvement in the teacher's disappearance, but later stated he had knowledge of everything, but didn't participate. I love when they do that. Oh, I was there, but I didn't have anything to do with it. He told police the real killers were a, quote, roving group of masked kids that forced him to provide a wheelbarrow to move Senora Graber's body and drive her van from the park. And see,

that's why we have the Fifth Amendment. So you don't go say something stupid to prosecutors. But there's more to the story than just his inane comments. And remember, behind all of their stupidity and ineptness, we have a dead teacher, a beloved teacher, in a park where she always goes. That's her custom and routine. You can predict it's going to happen, and it's right beside the school. Take a listen to more from Tad Simmons, WHO 13. Here's why investigators believe Miller and Goodale are responsible for her death. According to the complaint,

they interviewed friends and acquaintances of the two and soon found incriminating social media posts from Goodale. Investigators say he shared details of Graber's death and disappearance and those details got very specific according to investigators they say the post included why they want to go graber how they plan to kill her and what they would do to cover their tracks i feel like i'm drinking from a fire hydrant that was a lot of information at once brian Tabak, so two of her students post about why

they want to kill her, how they plan to kill her, and how to cover their tracks? Yeah, according to court documents, somebody who knew them saw their social media posts saying that they had more information about her death.

That was turned into police. But, I mean, posting it? That's, oh, more than I can even understand. Take a listen to Todd Majel, KCCI. This is Fairfield High School, where students are back in class for the first time since the death of their teacher, Nohema Graber. In Iowa and in the Midwest, it is somewhat unusual to specifically target someone as an authority figure, as their teacher. DCI Assistant Director Mitch Mortbett says investigators are still trying to figure out

why two Fairfield High School students allegedly murdered beloved high school Spanish teacher Nohema Graber. She was found in a town park last week. Motive is the big question. Investigators say they're looking into whether the suspects were upset about a bad grade. As far as a motive goes, they were students, you know, obviously at the Fairfield High School where she taught. And that's all that we're able to confirm at this time. So to you, Brian Tebbit, who are these students, Jeremy Goodale and Willard Miller? You know, I had an opportunity to talk in the park the Thursday after her body was found with a lot of the kids.

And they sounded like very quiet kids kept to themselves. None of the people that I spoke to ever really thought that something like this would happen, that they would do something like this. Well, it must be pretty serious because both suspects wanted their million-dollar bonds reduced, and prosecutors say the suspects are too dangerous to let them out of jail. It's a lot for me to take in, but I can't imagine what their grudge would have been or why they hated this Spanish teacher so much. You know, did you hear that, Dr. Jory Croson, that they were considered to be quiet, almost meek at school? Yeah. And to me, that's psychologically really not unusual.

A lot of times they are. They blend in. But, you know, they have this inner rage that can be triggered over something. At just 16 years old. You know, Bobby Chacon, I often said when I was prosecuting that we should be more afraid of juvenile killers because they really haven't formed a conscience yet. You're absolutely right. That's that's the fighting part of it. And that's probably why, you know, lower bail, you know, is denied is because it's so callous. Can you imagine the will of a human being who could bash someone else's head into their bed over a grade on a, on a, in a class?

I mean, that is such callousness and such horrific violence to carry out for such a small reason that a brain that is functioning that way should be should be you know kept away from society because you know until it's determined you know how this happened because it's such a scary prospect that somebody could be so violent and so horrific issue in life what happens when these kids get older and are dealing with much more concerning issues and much more difficult things to deal with other than a grade and a class. Nancy, this is Wendy

Patrick. If I could just elaborate on that, that these are such great points because we're not talking about a case of self-defense or some sort of a rival gang shooting. This is a murder which appears to be in cold blood of a role model and mentor teacher described as beloved by everybody that knew her. So that dynamic between murderer and victim is definitely relevant in deciding how dangerous the perpetrators are. that the perps have posted details about planning the killing on social media, how they were going to do it, and how they were going to cover their tracks. Based on that tip, cops get a warrant. Take a listen to Hour Cut 3. This is Kayla James at KCCI.

Court documents the tale the work investigators put in. They talked to someone who knew one of the suspects. That interview led police to social media messages. That was enough for investigators to social media messages. That was enough for investigators to get a warrant. Clothing with bloodstains were found in the suspect's home. Soon after, police arrested 16-year-olds Willard Miller and Jeremy Gadeo. I knew the kids that did it. I had them in my classes, so I was really shocked when I heard that. But students and the Fairfield community are more shocked by Graber's death.

She was more than just a teacher. A recent grad shared this picture of KCCI. She noted Graber's smiling face, calling her beautiful both inside and out. I know that she loved her students very much. You know, let's go through what we know regarding the evidence. Brian Tabic with me, KCRG TV 9 Iowa. Tell me about what the cops found in the student's home. Bloody clothes.

That is what they found at the home. We know that there were at least bloody clothes. I am guessing we may even have a murder weapon. Bloodstains found in the home as well. That tells me if bloodstains were on the walls or in the bathroom, that the person went straight home after the murder. So when you see a scene like that, Bobby Chacon, tell me your first reaction. Well, I mean, just from the location, it seems like what we call a lie in wait situation where they knew her routine. They were waiting for her to get there before they pounced, you know, almost like an animal preying upon its prey.

And so, you know, and then when you see the body moved from the place where it was murdered to a hiding spot, it shows, you know, a consciousness of wanting to get away with it. So pre-planning, how are of wanting to get away with it. So pre planning, how are we going to get away with this, we're going to have a place where bringer, even though the longer you stand a crime scene, the more risky it is, but you're willing to take that risk to not get caught. So these are things that are conscious, these are things working in our conscious, if we don't want to get caught, we want to take this risk, because we don't want to get caught. This all leads to, you know, planning and premeditation. And the mindset I. This all leads to, you know, planning and premeditation and the mindset. I mean, and this is, you know, the fighting part is these are young kids.

Can you imagine this type of brain who's willing to do this type of planning and this type of act as they get older? You know, it's interesting, too. Dr. Tim Gallagher, I want you to take a listen to something. Our friend Issa Gutierrez at NBC. But Dr. Gallagher, the conflict that they would try to cover up the body with a tarp or wheelbarrow, rototize, and trying to hide the dead body, but yet they posted about what they were going to do on social media. Take a listen to our friend Issa Guterres, NBC. Her name was

Noema Graber, now dead at 66 years old. Police say her body was found Wednesday at this park in Fairfield, Iowa, where she was known to take afternoon walks. According to the criminal complaint filed with the Jefferson County Police Department, Graber was covered by a tarp, wheelbarrow, and railroad ties, and appeared to have suffered inflicted trauma to the head. The suspects, two 16-year-old students at Fairfield High School where Graber taught. Investigators say they found incriminating social media communications between them detailing the motive, the planning and execution,

and even deliberate attempts to conceal the crime. Take a listen again to our friends at KCRG. Two 16-year-olds, Jeremy Goodale and Willard Miller are accused of a murder. It isn't clear if the two were in Graber's class but court filing shows someone who knew Goodale went to police with social media posts that revealed Goodale knew something about the disappearance and death of the longtime teacher. They definitely didn't seem like they were they would be the type to do something like this. They weren't mean kids. They weren't bullies or anything like that.

Court documents state police searched both students homes and took a number of pieces of clothing they believed to contain blood. Documents say Miller told police he was present for the murder and helped to conceal the body. Present for the murder and helped conceal the body. Ryan Tabak, jump in. Miller admitted to police that he had provided materials used to help kill her. That's part of the court documents. So Miller says he provided materials used to kill her. Well, she died of blunt trauma to the head, right? According to court documents yep and miller tells police he was

present for the murder and helped conceal the body okay let's sift through that dr tim gallagher what does that mean if she was murdered with a blunt object say a hammer he says he provided it. That shows premeditation to bring the weapon and that he was present for the murder and helped conceal the body. What does that tell you? Well, it certainly does. You know, that and the other things where the information that it's been provided, that they mentioned it on social media and that then they tried to hide the body. So it shows a bit of disorganization. You know, so what they could have provided, what could have been what they found there at the scene. There could have been a tree branch. It could have been a fence pipe or some blunt object like that. Or it could have been something that they brought with them, like a hammer or a baseball bat or a metal pipe. But it certainly shows, because of the diametrically opposed information that's been given out

as far as covering the body to hide that and then presenting the case on social media, that there is disorganization amongst them or that this is a very naive perpetrator who is just kind of winging it as it goes along wendy patrick i think it's something they brought from home or that they obtained to bring because they were planning on social media you don't go on social media and go well i think i'm going to go to the scene and then try to tear a branch off a tree to kill her that's they obviously brought something with them and it's miller miller says he brought the murder weapon. Yeah, when you're describing these elements of a conspiracy, the pre-planning, the accessory after the fact, and like you say, actually bringing the equipment to the scene,

you know, the one, I suppose, unusual factor here is that the scene was exactly where they would have been looking for her. So the fact that they brought materials to cover up a crime at the crime scene is curious, as has been pointed out among the sort of the chronology, but it certainly is going to be good evidence to show the jury about what exactly what they plan to do when they got there. Bobby Chacon joining me, 27 years FBI agent at BobbyChacon.com, now author and producer. Bobby, what is it that's so scary about teen killers or child killers? They're just 16 years old. That's still a minor in many jurisdictions.

They're considered a child. True, Nancy. I mean, the most frightening thing is that, you know, because their brains are still developing and their personality are still developing at this point in their lives, the fact that they can carry out such a horrific and callous crime shows you that they have the capacity as they get older to continue this type of thing and to do this. Some people can go through their whole lives and never have the capacity to do something like this. to so callously and cold-bloodedly bash someone's head in over almost nothing until they're dead, and then hide the body, which is an additional layer of it. Sometimes when a crime of passion occurs and you hit somebody and they die, the person has immediate regret.

Here, you have that extra level of callousness. So at 15 or 16, if they can do this, imagine as they develop into 18, 19, 20 year olds and they have more physical capabilities and they have the ability to move around and drive and to live among us in a more active way. Imagine the potential they have to do this again or do similar crimes. Well, another issue is to you, Jory Croson. One thing that's so scary about a child killer is you don't see it coming you do not see it coming you don't expect statistically for a child and they are a child there are children under the law at 16 years old it's almost unheard of actually statistically yes and especially with the teacher there's no doubt she probably recognized them and may have even stopped to engage them.

Or, you know, I mean, there's going to have that kind of a connection and communication where she definitely is not feeling alarmed at all. I do know that both of these teens, Willard Chayden Miller and Jeremy Goodale, they both were in her Spanish class. So did she single them out in class? Were they misbehaving and she berated them? Were they going to fail? Did she catch them cheating and threatened to report it and have them thrown out of school? It could be anything.

But Wendy, Patrick, you and I both prosecuted juveniles. We don't have to prove motive, but I'm curious. I'm curious about motive. And a jury is going to be curious too. That's why motive matters. Under the law, prosecutors do not have to prove motive in any case ever. But in this case, a jury is going to want to know why, or they may reject the evidence. That's absolutely right. And especially with juveniles, given the amount of time they spend online, when you have somebody that's quiet, I mean, that's the proverbial ax murderer next door, he kept to himself. That trait alone isn't revealing. That's why online gives us such

powerful evidence and not just Facebook, you know, the young people, they joke that's for the older folks. But for some of these platforms that we have to find, where was this discussed even more than we're already hearing? That will give us what we need to know, as you said, to prove motive, even though we don't have to. And to you, Dr. Jory Croson, psychologist, faculty, St. Leo University and author, they weren't bullies. They weren't't mean according to students we've listened to they were actually very kind so what does that tell you about them well getting back to the motive there had to be something that triggered you know that behavior and that's the motive like you said it could have been a something as simple as you know signaling singling them out in class, you know, for maybe a possible incorrect response or something that they elevated to the point of anger, aggression and rage.

Guys, take a listen to Laura Terrell. Where are they now? Listen to this. The 16 year old suspects, Willard Miller and and Jeremy Goodall are both in jail on a one million dollar bond. We've learned Miller's lawyer is high-profile Des Moines criminal defense attorney Christine Branstad. Monday she filed a motion requesting to reduce his bond stating he has no criminal record and no school disciplinary record. The new court document also says Miller would agree to adult supervision, psychological evaluation, a substance abuse evaluation, and GPS monitoring

in order to be released. Did you hear all of that? Brian Tabic joining me, KCRG TV 9. You're hearing they had much less no criminal record, but no disciplinary record at school. They had never even been in trouble at school. Yeah, and there was no indication from any of the students that I talked to, again, that I go back to, that they weren't mean kids. In the last days, one of the two Iowa teens charged with bludgeoning their Spanish teacher dead over a bad grade. One of the two teens has agreed to testify for the state against the other.

Listen. One of the teens charged in connection with murdering their teacher is expected to testify against the other in court. Jeremy Goodale and Willard Miller are accused of beating their Spanish teacher, 66-year-old Mrs. Noema Graber, to death. She taught at Fairfield High School in Iowa. The motive, prosecutors allege, a bad grade. Both teens have pleaded not guilty.

In a court hearing this week, it was announced that Jeremy Goodale will testify against Willard Miller. The Des Moines Register writes that court records do not show if Goodale has reached a plea deal and how testifying could change his status. His attorney declined to comment to CBS News. You are hearing our friend at Inside Edition. A beloved teacher, a wife, a mom. She's dead and nothing can bring her back.

We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.