Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Beloved Teacher Murdered, Body Hidden in Favorite Park

Episode Date: December 21, 2021

Willard Noble Chaiden Miller and Jeremy Everett Goodale, both 16, are accused of killing 66-year-old Nohema Graber. The boys were students at Fairfield High School in Fairfield, where Graber had been teaching Spanish since 2012. Police found Graber’s remains November 3, at the Chautauqua Park in Fairfield. A tipster led investigators to the teens. Police say social media evidence ties both suspects to Graber's death. According to a criminal complaint, in a social media exchange, the teens appeared to know specific details regarding Graber’s death, included how the teacher died, and the motive. Information on a specific motive has not been publicly released. Investigators obtained search warrants for both suspects’ homes and found clothing that appeared to have blood on them. A witness who knew the suspects told police the suspects were seen at the park on November 3.Joining Nancy Grace Today: Wendy Patrick - California prosecutor, author “Red Flags” www.wendypatrickphd.com 'Today with Dr. Wendy' on KCBQ in San Diego, Twitter: @WendyPatrickPHD Dr. Jorey Krawczyn - Police Psychologist, Faculty Saint Leo University; Consultant Blue Wall Institute, Author: Operation S.O.S Bobby Chacon - 27 years former FBI Agent, BobbyChacon.com, Instagram/Twitter: @BobbyChaconFBI, Writer and Co-producer: Audible Original Series, "After the Fall" Dr. Tim Gallagher - Medical Examiner State of Florida www.pathcaremed.com, Lecturer: University of Florida Medical School Forensic Medicine. Founder/Host: International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference Brian Tabick - Reporter, KCRG-TV9 (Iowa), Twitter: @BrianTabick Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You know how hard it is to teach preteens another language. My son is in Spanish. My daughter is in French. And they study it all the time. And guess who their favorite teachers are? The language teachers because they work with them so intensely to kind of reprogram to think and speak in another language.

And that has given me a lot of appreciation for Nahima Graber, just a beautiful soul, deeply loved by everybody at her school. This lovely and beloved Spanish teacher has been murdered. Why would somebody murder this sweet, loving, dedicated, devoted Spanish teacher? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. Take a listen to our friend Les Trent at Inside Edition. Weema Graber taught Spanish at Fairfield High School in Iowa.

She was recently praised by a student during National Teacher Appreciation Week. Happy Teacher Appreciation Week, Mrs. Graber. Thank you for all that you do in and out of the classroom. We really appreciate how much fun we have in your class and how much Spanish we learn. And we just hope you have a really good day. Gracias. She was a classy lady. She was a dedicated lady. She cared deeply about the kids as people. The teacher was reported missing on Wednesday. Her body was found under a tarp in the park later that day. Okay, right there, that stops me in my tracks because the scene was staged.

Now, staging does not require any elaborate detail, although very often there is elaborate detail, such as posing the body or shifting around the clothing. Any change or movement to a crime scene is staging. And would you agree, I'm going to introduce your panel in just a second, but first to Bobby Chacon, former FBI agent. He's at bobbychacon.com and he's writer, co-producer of After This Fall on Audible. If I went through all of his credits, we would use the whole program. Bobby, wouldn't you agree that staging a scene and that includes trying to hide the body.

I've had bodies hidden, covered in leaves, covered in branches, in a shallow grave, hidden under a tree, a wastebasket put over the head. A million ways to try to hide the face or the body. That is staging. And the reason it stops me in my tracks is because that tells me a lot about the killer. A random killer hits it and quits it. They're gone. Somebody else stages the scene, sticks around long enough to stage. Explain it, Bobby.

Yeah, well, we call that kind of forensic countermeasures sometimes because they're trying to hide what they've done. And oftentimes it also can indicate premeditation because sometimes they've already pre-purchased the things that they're going to use to try to hide the body, a shovel, a tarp that they brought with them to the crime scene. So you have indications of, you know, their sophistication in trying to forensically compromise the scene. And then you have, you know, possible premeditation. They knew what they were going to do because they went out and they bought the things that they used then to hide the body,

or they somehow secured those things and brought them with them. You immediately made me think of movies. If somebody asks you to go for a ride and they've got a shovel, don't go. Because every time in a movie, they use a shovel and whack you in the head or at least dig the grave. You're right. Don't go. If they have a bed of lye in the trunk, you don't get in the car. If they have a bed of lye in the trunk, don't get in the car. With a tarp and Clorox in the backseat, don't go you don't get in the car if they have a bed a lie in the trunk don't get in the car

with a tarp and clorox in the back seat don't go so yes pre-meditation and here we see her body covered with a tarp guys with me california prosecutor author red flags on amazon at wendypatrickphd.com she's the host of today with Dr. Wendy, WKCBQ San Diego, Dr. Jory Crossan, psychologist, faculty, St. Leo University, consultant, and author of Operation SOS. You just heard Bobby Chacon, former fed with the FBI. Dr. Tim Gallagher, the medical examiner for the entire state of Florida. He never toots his own horn, which I admire, but he is the lecturer at University of Florida Medical School in Forensic Medicine, and he is the founder and the host of the International Forensic Medicine Death

Investigation Conference. A lot of people wouldn't like that. I would be in heaven if I were at the International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference. But first, I want to go to Brian Tabak, special guest joining us. He's a reporter with KCRG-TV9 in Iowa. Brian, when I think of a school, I think of a very sedate, calm, in my mind, I think of a brick structure with a playground and a soccer field and very calm and serene setting. But that's just my stereotype in my head. Tell me about this area there in Fairfield, Iowa. So your description of the school is actually pretty point out. It's a very, it's a brick building out in Fairfield, Iowa. Fairfield's about two hours from Des Moines,

or a population's about 10,000 people, very small community. Literally the saying in Iowa is everybody knows everybody in some of these small towns, and that's just the case when you talk about Fairfield, going to the vigil, you can just see the town really kind of come together and remember Noe McGraver as the teacher she was. You know, I'm thinking about what you said, 10,000 people. And I want to go to Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags. Crime happens everywhere. Remember Molly Tibbetts, the university student who would go jogging? She was jogging out in cornfields when she was attacked and murdered. Crime happens everywhere, but it happens less often in rural or suburban areas. So that, in addition to the scene being staged, gives me a clue about the killer. Rural

area. What does that tell you, Wendy? Absolutely. In a rural area, not only do people, are they more likely to know each other, but they're likely to know each other's routines. Does she walk in a certain place every day? Where does she live? How does she get to school? Especially when you're an educator. I mean, we probably still remember some of the names of our high school instructors because they've made that kind of an impression on us. How much more is that dynamic true in a small town? And I was just thinking, it just came to mind. And I believe you and I talked about this, Dr. Tim Gallagher joining me out of Florida, the Tara Grinstead case. She was a high school history teacher. Her students loved her.

And then out of the blue, she just disappears. Her home in disarray, in slight disarray. You'd have to know her. I went into her home. It was like a little jewelry box, perfectly decorated. She was one of those people, Dr. Gallagher, that kept everything in its place. Her car, she obviously didn't have children yet. Her car was pristine and perfect. It still smelled like a new car. In her home, one of the legs on the bed had been jerked away from the bed.

Pearls were broken and were on the floor. That's almost all that was wrong in the home. She would never have let that happen. And her car had mud all over the side of it and the driver's seat was pulled back. So, I mean, when you look at facts like that, you know something is very, very wrong. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Dr. Gallagher, how many autopsies do you perform regarding victims in big cities versus rural areas?

Generally, and then getting back to the Ms. Grinstead case, of course, you know, people remember her as Miss Georgia, as a contestant in the Miss Georgia Beauty Patent. So she had this very conscious effort that she put into her appearance and then what her perception was. And that was one who was very regimented, one who was very detailed about what they look like and how clean they were. And that was a large part in helping to solve our case. But generally, we get most of our violent crimes in the state of Florida, in the larger cities, Orlando, certainly Miami, when I was in Miami, I mean, it was just another world out there as far as violence goes. But yes, as a general rule, our most violent crimes do come from the city. And it's very rare and it's very, to me, I remember them personally when these same types of violent crimes happen in small rural bedroom type communities. You know, so very, very rare to have them in this type of setting as we're describing today. You know, it's funny in an odd way, Dr. Gallagher,

what you're saying really struck me because in all the years I was prosecuting homicides in inner city Atlanta, a huge percentage of them were drug related, Turk Wars. And this is what happened. Drugs came in at a port in Florida to Miami, and then Miami would infect the rest of the Southeast with its drugs. And drug mules would come straight up 75, first big stop, Atlanta. And the murders would commence. My point is, back to Brian Tabak, reporter KGRG TV9 Iowa, the fact that it's a very rural setting also tells me a lot about who my perp is going to be. Guys, this beloved teacher, just lovely, Noema Graber, found in the Chautauqua Park. Why was she there? Take a listen to our friend Jackie Howard.

One of Noema Graber's favorite pastimes is walking, and the place she liked to walk was the Chautauqua Park. She did it every afternoon, and that was the last place she was seen on November 2nd. Her family reported her missing, and police found Graber's body the next day in the park under a tarp, quill barrel, and railroad ties. The complaint says Graber's cause of death has not been released, but detectives wrote that their preliminary investigation indicated Graber suffered inflicted trauma to the head. What does that say to you, Dr. Jory? Well, it kind of sends a message, like we talked about the premedication that came along with it, possibly, in the planning.

But leaving the body, you know, if it were a robbery, you'd do a blitz attack, hit her, steal, and leave. But, you know, it takes time to cover the body with a tarp, a wheelbarrow, and then with railroad ties. And that's time spent on the crime scene. Possibly, you know, leaving more clues, but also possibly getting caught. Dr. Tim Gallagher, based on what you're hearing from Dr. Jory Croson, we're hearing that her head had, quote, inflicted trauma. What does that mean, Dr. Gallagher? Typically, what it would mean is there are lacerations to the skull and that there are skull fractures as well as brain damage, bleeding on the brain or maybe even the shards of the broken skull penetrating their way into the brain and destroying the brain that way. So generally, this is done with a, we call it a blunt type instrument, something such as a baseball bat, a metal pipe or some very heavy object could even be a stone that they had found in the park.

All of these types of things, when they strike the head, cause blunt force trauma to the head and brain damage and a resulting death because of that. I've heard nothing about her being sex assaulted. Brian Tabak, do we know anything about a sex assault? That I have never heard. No. Yeah. And if she was out walking in a park, I doubt she would have been carrying anything to be stolen. Like, I mean, she's a schoolteacher.

You really think she's going to have a lot of expensive jewelry or a Rolex watch or a fanny pack stuffed with thousands of dollars in cash? I doubt it. So what is the motive? No robbery, no sex attack. Take a listen to Kayla James, KCCI. We spoke with our grieving. It feels like something that would happen in TV, like definitely not something that would happen in like small town Iowa.

But it did. And now the community of Fairfield is mourning the loss of well-loved teacher Nohema Graber. Her overall like energy was very good. I would walk past her in the halls and she would say hi to almost every single student. She stopped me. She talked about like life. She talked about the sports I do. A Spanish teacher at Fairfield High known by many as someone who enjoyed walking the paths of Chautauqua Park. That's where investigators found her body Wednesday. Signs of trauma to her head. But police haven't said how she died.

Everyone liked her. Like, I don't get why someone would do this. Because, like, who hates her? She's nice. And in almost premonition, take a listen to our friends KCCI. A special memorial is set up on a fence next to the high school. Flowers, pictures, and condolences. The DCI says they're getting plenty of cooperation in their investigation, but they still want your help.

If anybody, you know, students or adults has any information, we still want them to come forward with it, whether they saw anything taking place last week in and around the park area. None of us anticipated anything like this. Librarian Alex McEunis met Graber at the Fairfield Library last week, one day before she died. She was there to take a look at a Day of the Dead display celebrating Mexican heritage. She told the local newspaper, quote, We all know we're going to die. It's our way of laughing at death. Now the display is a memorial to her life. To any Patrick, California prosecutor and author, so often

when I prosecuted homicide cases or investigate them, you see odd premonitions or you have friends or family members say she said this was going to happen. She was afraid. Here, Nahima was not afraid, but she definitely was making sense of the day of the dead less than 24 hours before she's murdered. That was something that really caught my attention, Nancy. In connection with where she was found, I mean, it's true staging requires strategy, but she's found in the same park where anybody would have known to look for her.

This was apparently a routine that she had. So that in combination with just having discussed her own death is definitely something as part of the timeline that as a prosecutor, I'd be looking at and trying to put this together. Take a listen to Tash Simmons, W.H.O. 13. Graber was reported missing yesterday. The authorities later on that day found her body in this remote area of Chautauqua Park,

which is just down the street from the school she devoted her life to. According to the criminal complaint, whoever killed Graber tried to hide her body under a tarp, a wheelbarrow and railroad ties. Investigators believe Graber was killed by an impact or several impacts to her head. You know, Brian Tabak joining me, KCRG, where was the park in relation to the school? Did she go there at lunchtime or after school? I couldn't tell you the time that she went there. I just know that she went there pretty much every day to go walk. And according to court documents, it was in the afternoon time,

so it could have been during lunch or after school. But it's not far. It's within a few blocks of the park. Very easy to even just walk there right after school or during your lunch hour. You can make it there pretty quickly. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. So we've got her dead body. It's been staged in a park where she always goes. That's her custom and routine.

You can predict it's going to happen. And it's right beside the school. Take a listen to more from Tad Simmons, WHO 13. Here's why investigators believe Miller and Goodale are responsible for her death. According to the complaint, they interviewed friends and acquaintances of the two and soon found incriminating social media posts from Goodale. Investigators say he shared details of Graber's death and disappearance, and those details got very specific, according to

investigators. They say the posts included why they want to kill Graber, how they plan to kill her, and what they would do to cover their tracks. I feel like I'm drinking from a fire hydrant. That was a lot of information at once. Brian Tabak, so two of her students post about why they want to kill her, how they plan to kill her, and how to cover their tracks? One of, yeah, one of, according

to court documents, somebody who knew them saw their social media posts saying that they had more information about her death when I was turned into police. But why would they want to kill the Spanish teacher? That's not something I think we're going to have to wait till they go to court to find out more on that. I couldn't give you any indication as to why these two.

So we don't know yet. We don't know yet. But I mean, posting it, that's more than I can even understand. Take a listen to Todd Majel, KCCI. This is Fairfield High School, where students are back in class for the first time since the death of their teacher, Nohema Graber. In Iowa and in the Midwest, it is somewhat unusual. And, you know, to specifically target someone as an authority figure, as their teacher. DCI Assistant Director Mitch Bortbett says investigators are still trying to figure out

why two Fairfield High School students allegedly murdered beloved high school Spanish teacher Nohema Graber. She was found in a town park last week. Motive is the big question. Investigators say they're looking into whether the suspects were upset about a bad grade. As far as a motive goes, they were students, you know, obviously at the Fairfield High School where she taught. And that's all that we're able to confirm at this time. So to you, Brian Tebbit, who are these students, Jeremy Goodale and Willard Miller? You know, I had an opportunity to talk in the park the Thursday after her body was found with a lot of the kids. And they sounded like very quiet kids

kept to themselves. None of the people that I spoke to ever really thought that something like this was what happened, that they would do something like this. Well, it must be pretty serious because both suspects wanted their million-dollar bonds reduced, and prosecutors say the suspects are too dangerous to let them out of jail. It's a lot for me to take in, but I can't imagine what their grudge would have been or why they hated this Spanish teacher so much. Did you hear that, Dr. Joy Crossan, that they were considered to be quiet, almost meek at school? Yeah.

And to me, that's psychologically really not unusual. A lot of times they are. They blend in. But, you know, they have this inner rage that can be triggered over something. At just 16 years old, you know, Bobby G. Cohn, I often said when I was prosecuting that we should be more afraid of juvenile killers because they really haven't formed a conscience yet. You're absolutely right. And that's the fighting part of it. And that's probably why, you know, lower bail, you know, is denied is because

it's so callous. Can you imagine the will of a human being who could bash someone else's head into their bed over a grade on a, on a, in a class? I mean, that is such callousness and such horrific violence to carry out for such a small reason that a brain that is functioning that way should be, should be, you know, kept away from society because, you know, until it's determined, you know, how this happened because it's such a scary prospect that somebody could be so violent and so horrific issue in a life.

What happens when these kids get older and are dealing with much more concerning issues and much more difficult things to deal with other than a grade and a class. Nancy, this is Wendy Patrick. If I could just elaborate on that, that these are such great points because we're not talking about a case of self-defense or some sort of a rival gang shooting. This is a murder which appears to be in cold blood of a role model and mentor teacher described as beloved by everybody that knew her. So that dynamic between murderer and victim is definitely relevant in deciding how dangerous the perpetrators are. Well, based on what the tipster said, a tip that the perps have posted details about planning the killing on social media, how they were going to do it, and how they were going to cover their tracks. Based on that tip, cops get a warrant. Take a listen to

Hour Cut 3. This is Kayla James at KCCI. Court documents the tale the work investigators put in. They talked to someone who knew one of the suspects. That interview led police to social media messages. That was enough for investigators to get a warrant. Clothing with bloodstains were found in the suspect's home. Soon after, police arrested 16-year-olds Willard Miller and Jeremy Gadeo. I knew the kids that did it. I had them in my classes. So I was really shocked when I heard that. But students and the Fairfield community are more shocked by Graber's death.

She was more than just a teacher. A recent grad shared this picture of KCCI. She noted Graber's smiling face, calling her beautiful both inside and out. I know that she loved her students very much. You know, let's go through what we know regarding the evidence. Brian Tabic with me, KCRG TV9 Iowa. Tell me about what the cops found in the student's home. Bloody clothes. That is what they found at the home.

We know that there were at least bloody clothes. I am guessing we may even have a murder weapon. Bloodstains found in the home as well. That tells me if bloodstains were on the walls or in the bathroom, that the person went straight home after the murder. So when you see a scene like that, Bobby Chacon, tell me your first reaction. Well, I mean, just from the location, it seems like what we call a lie in wait situation where they knew her routine. They were waiting for her to get there before they pounced, you know, almost like an animal preying upon its prey. And so, you know, and then when you see the body moved from the place where it was murdered to a hiding spot, it shows, you know, a consciousness of wanting to get away with this. So pre-planning, how are we going to

get away with this? We're going to have a place where bring her, even though the longer you stay on the crime scene, the more risky it is, but you're willing to take that risk to not get caught. So these are things that are conscious. These are things working in our conscious. If we don't want to get caught, we want to take this risk because we don't want to get caught. This all leads to, you know, planning and premeditation and the mindset. I mean, and this is, you know, the frightening part is these are young kids. Can you imagine this type of brain who's willing to do this, this type of planning and this type of act as they get older?

You know, it's interesting too, Dr. Tim Gallagher, I want you to take a listen to something. Our friend Issa Gutierrez at NBC, but Dr. Gallagher, the conflict that they would try to cover up the body with a tarp or wheelbarrow rototized and trying to cover up the body with a tarp or wheelbarrow, rototize, and trying to hide the dead body. But yet they posted about what they were going to do on social media. Take a listen to our friend Issa Gutierrez, NBC. Her name was Noema Graber, now dead at 66 years old. Police say her body was found Wednesday at

this park in Fairfield, Iowa, where she was known to take afternoon walks. According to the criminal complaint filed with the Jefferson County Police Department, Graber was covered by a tarp, wheelbarrow, and railroad ties and appeared to have suffered inflicted trauma to the head. The suspects, two 16-year-old students at Fairfield High School where Graber taught. Investigators say they found incriminating social media communications between them detailing the motive, the planning and execution, and even deliberate attempts to conceal the crime.

Both have been charged with homicide in the first degree and conspiracy to commit homicide in the first degree. According to a statement from the city, they will be tried as adults. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Now take a listen to our friends at KCRG. Two 16-year-olds, Jeremy Goodale and Willard Miller, are accused of a murder. It isn't clear if the two were in Graber's class, but court filings show someone who knew Goodale went to police with social media posts that revealed Goodale knew something about the disappearance

and death of the longtime teacher. It didn't seem like they would be the type to do something like this. They weren't mean kids. They weren't bullies or anything like that. Court documents state police searched both students' homes and took a number of pieces of clothing they believed to contain blood. Documents say Miller told police he was present for the murder and helped to conceal the body. Present for the murder and helped conceal the body. Brian Tabak, jump in. I don't know what else to add there.

I mean, Miller admitted to police that he had provided materials used to help kill her. That's part of the court documents. So Miller says he provided materials used to kill her. That's part of the court documents. So Miller says he provided materials used to kill her. Well, she died a blunt trauma to the head, right? According to court documents, yep. And Miller tells police he was present for the murder and helped conceal the body. Okay, let's sift through that. Dr. Tim Gallagher, what does that mean? If she was murdered with a blunt object, say a hammer, he says he provided it. That shows premeditation to bring the weapon and that he was present for the murder and helped conceal the body. What does that tell you? Well, it certainly does. You know, that and the other things where the information that it's been provided, that they mentioned it on social media,

and that then they tried to hide the body. So it shows a bit of disorganization, you know. So what they could have provided, what could have been what they found there at the scene, that could have been a tree branch, it could have been a fence pipe or some blunt object like that, or it could have been something that they brought with them, like a hammer or a baseball bat or metal pipe. But it certainly shows, because of the diametrically opposed information that's been given out, as far as covering the body to hide that and then presenting the case on social media, that there is that there is disorganization, you know, amongst them or that this is a very naive perpetrator, you know, who is just kind of winging it as he goes along. Wendy Patrick, I think it's something they brought from home or

that they obtained to bring because they were planning on social media. You don't go on social media and go, well, I think I'm going to go to the scene and then try to tear a branch off a tree to kill her. They obviously brought something with them. And it's Miller. Miller says he brought the murder weapon. Yeah. When you're describing these elements of a conspiracy, the pre-planning, the accessory after the fact, and like you say, actually bringing the equipment to the scene. You know, the one, I suppose, unusual factor here is that the scene was exactly where they would have been looking for her. So the fact that they brought materials to cover up a crime at the crime scene is curious, as has been pointed out among the sort of the chronology. But it certainly is going to be good evidence to show the jury about what exactly what they plan to do when they got there. Bobby Chacon joining me, 27 years FBI agent at BobbyChacon.com, now author and producer.

Bobby, what is it that's so scary about teen killers or child killers? They're just 16 years old. That's still a minor in many jurisdictions. They're considered a child true nancy i mean the most frightening thing is that you know in because their brains are still developing and their personality are still developing at this point in their lives the fact that they can carry out such a horrific and callous crime shows you that they have the capacity as they get older um to to continue this type of thing and to do this. Some people can go through their whole lives and never have the capacity to do something like this, to so callously and

cold-bloodedly bash someone's head in over almost nothing until they're dead and then hide the body, which is an additional layer of it. Sometimes when a crime of passion occurs and you hit somebody and they die, the person has immediate regret. Here, you have that extra level of callousness. So at 15 or 16, if they can do this, imagine as they develop into 18, 19, 20-year-olds and they have more physical capabilities and they have the ability to move around and drive and to live among us in a more active way. Imagine the potential they have to do this again or do similar crimes. Well, another issue is, to you, Jory Croson, one thing that's so scary about a child killer is you don't see it coming.

You do not see it coming. You don't expect statistically for a child, and they are a child. There are children under the law at 16 years old. It's almost unheard of, actually, statistically. Yes, and especially with the teacher, there's no doubt she probably recognized them and may have even stopped to engage them. Or, you know, I mean, there's going to have that kind of a connection and communication where she definitely is not feeling alarmed at all.

I do know that both of these teens, Willard Chayden Miller and Jeremy Goodale, they both were in her Spanish class. So did she single them out in class? Were they misbehaving and she berated them? Were they going to fail? Did she catch them cheating and threatened to report it and have them thrown out of school? It could be anything. But Wendy, Patrick, you and I both prosecuted juveniles. We don't have to prove motive, but I'm curious. I'm curious about motive. And a jury is going to be curious too. That's why motive matters. Under the law, prosecutors do not have to prove motive in any case ever. But in this case, a jury is going to want to know why or they may reject the evidence.

That's absolutely right. And especially with juveniles, given the amount of time they spend online, when you have somebody who's quiet, I mean, that's the proverbial axe murderer next door. He kept to himself. That trait alone isn't revealing. That's why online gives us such powerful evidence and not just Facebook. You know, the young people, they joke that's for the older folks. But for some of these platforms that we have to find, where was this discussed even more than we're already hearing? That will give us what we need to know, as you said, to prove motive, even though we don't have to. And to you, Dr. Jory Cross, and psychologist, faculty, St. Leo University, and author, they weren't bullies. They weren't mean, according to students we've listened to.

They were actually very kind. So what does that tell you about them? Well, getting back to the motive, there had to be something that triggered, you know, that behavior. And that's the motive. Like you said, it could have been something as simple as, you know, signaling them out in class, you know, for maybe a possible incorrect response or something that they elevated to the point of anger, aggression and rage. Guys, take a listen to Laura Terrell. Where are they now? Listen to this.

The 16-year-old suspects, Willard Miller and Jeremy Goodall, are both in jail on a $1 million bond. We've learned Miller's lawyer is high-profile Des Moines criminal defense attorney, Christine Branstad. Monday, she filed a motion requesting to reduce his bond, stating he has no criminal record and no school disciplinary record. The new court document also says Miller would agree to adult supervision, psychological evaluation, a substance abuse evaluation, and GPS monitoring in order to be released. And the judge has not ruled on that

motion yet, so Miller remains in jail. Did you hear all of that? Brian Tabic joining me, KCRGTV9. You're hearing they had much less no criminal record, but no disciplinary record at school. They had never even been in trouble at school. Yeah, and there was no indication from any of the students that I talked to, again, that I go back to, that they weren't mean kids. You heard that. So what do we, where do we go from here? Let me ask you, Bobby Chacon, you also have investigated homicides committed by juveniles. Yeah, I mean, I mean, in this case, Nancy, obviously, you know, the path is good for the prosecution. But I mean, in general, you know, and we see this, you know, time again, with the Michigan school shooting, things like that, where, you know, we have to have earlier

interventions, you know, in, in situations where, you know, and it may not be the case, where, you know, because you need some indication that this this behavior is on the horizon. If you don't have that, that's much more difficult to deal with. And so we've seen cases that fit both descriptions, right? Somewhere you've seen indications and warning signs and some like this where you don't. It's troubling, you know, obviously these cases where, you know, you might not see it, but, you know, they did have some indication on social media. It's just very difficult to see a world in which we are constantly monitoring social media for these kinds of things. It would be a very enormous task to do. I think we're at the point where, you know, we're still in that see something, say something stage, where if they do post them, their fellow students can bring it to the attention of others or school personnel.

But that's it. I mean, there's not much you can do when you don't have those prior indications. A beloved Spanish teacher, a high school teacher, murdered, beaten dead on her daily walk near the school in a park by two of her high school Spanish students. Neither had a criminal record, neither had a disciplinary record at the high school. We wait as this case unfolds. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.