Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Bill Cosby granted appeal in Pennsylvania sex assault case

Episode Date: June 25, 2020

The Pennsylvania Supreme Court has agreed to hear an appeal of Bill Cosby’s 2018 sexual assault conviction. The decision will allow five additional accusers to testify, along with Cosby’s claim that a prosecutor once told him he would not face charges.Joining Nancy Grace today: Jim Elliott- Attorney with Butler Snow, legal counsel for various Georgia municipalities and other governmental entities Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Atlanta Ga Cloyd Steiger – 36 years with Seattle Police Department, 22-year homicide detective, Author of “Seattle’s Forgotten Serial Killer: Gary Gene Grant” Levi Page - Investigative reporter CrimeOnline Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Bill Cosby, back in the headlines. Does it never end? All those years he had of being America's dad, being the big movie star, the number one comedian in the country. And what was he doing? Molesting women, doping them, and then molesting them, raping them. He finally gets convicted after a 20 or 30 year run.

And now it's not over? His case is rearing its ugly head? I want to run as if I had seen a monster, but no. You know what? I'm going to fight. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us.

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Again, thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. How in the hay is it back? He was convicted by a jury, right? Remember all those women crying on the stand? Take a listen to this E! News anchor. In a stunning ruling, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court will allow Cosby to appeal two issues in his sexual assault conviction.

Since 2018, the 82-year-old has been serving a three to ten year sentence after a jury convicted him of drugging and sexually assaulting a woman, Andrea Constand, in his home in 2004. E! News has obtained the court documents confirming Pennsylvania's Supreme Court ruling. The court will review whether the jury should have heard testimony from five other accusers about alleged assaults that were not a part of the original charges. It will also review the judge's decision to allow the trial to proceed after Cosby was allegedly promised immunity by a former prosecutor and then agreed to be questioned during depositions in 2005 and 2006. Okay, let me just boil that down. What the court is saying is the case has not been reversed. That hasn't happened. But Cosby has the right to appeal his case on two grounds, at least two major grounds. They'll probably throw in the standard grounds like insufficient evidence.

They always say that there's not enough evidence to convict me, even though a jury did convict them. They might say ineffective assistance of counsel because that always get raised. You pay a guy a million dollars to represent you and then on appeal, you're sitting in your jail cell wondering, how can I get out of here? You then claim, oh, he did a horrible job. This is what he did wrong. Those don't concern me. These two do concern me.

Not that I agree with them, but they concern me. Guys, joining me in all-star panel, first of all, a very famous in his region lawyer, Jim Elliott, with Butler Snow. He is legal counsel for multiple municipalities like cities, counties. Also with me, psychiatrist, Dr angela arnold joining me from the atlanta jurisdiction cloyd steiger 36 years seattle pd 22 of those years on homicide he's seen it all he is also the author of seattle's forgotten serial killer gary gene grant you can find him at cloydsteiger.com but straight out out to Levi Page, investigative reporter with crimeonline.com where you can find this

and all other breaking crime and justice news. You know, nobody can say it better than one of the victims herself. Take a listen to what Janice

Dickinson, as she calls herself America's first supermodel, tells me. Janice Dickinson, supermodel and reality TV star, is joining us. Ms. Dickinson, thank you for being with us. I can't breathe because of Bill Cosby. What do you mean? I can't breathe because I haven't slept in weeks and, you know, I just, you know, with everything that's going on, I haven't been able to breathe like the whole nation is doing right now protesting. The the the unresolved issues due to rape from Bill Cosby. I'm just starting to exhale and and I will say this, you know, I sobbed all weekend, not just for me, for what's going on with these other women.

I'm in huge gratitude to the Los Angeles Police Department. You know, thank you guys and gals out there. You know, it's about time that this guy gets his cup opens. You are hearing America's first supermodel, Janice Dickinson, described her reaction to waiting for justice for Bill Cosby. You know, the other day I heard Eddie Murphy, who was hilarious ever since he did Dr. Doolittle. Well, ever since he was incoming to America, you know, who could not be an Eddie Murphy fan? But he was saying how Cosby came, Jackie, I don't know if you heard this and lectured him on being a good example lectured Eddie Murphy and the other day Eddie Murphy was saying wow check it out America's dad who's America's dad now you're in jail and I've got 10 children and

I'm supporting and taking care of all of them however many children he has and i'm just thinking about how cosby used to lecture everybody on how to be a better person you know levi page i know i was going to you for the facts but let me go to dr angela arnold dr arnold i don't want you to give any personal story but and and and all of your personal to you that happened to you. But when a person goes through trauma, be it a sex attack, be it, you know, your loved one getting murdered right before your wedding, be it any traumatic event. I believe, and I'm just a JD, you're the MD in a shrink. You're left with not only the injustice of what happened to you or your loved one, but this feeling of helplessness. And then certain things for the rest of your life trigger that. And women think, oh, why did I, one, two, three, wear a short skirt, go out that night,

go to a bar, drink that drink, blah, blah, blah. It goes on and on and on. I have interviewed, spoken with so many of Cosby's victims, and they all say, oh, I was so stupid, I fill in the blank. As if they somehow contributed to being raped. And I'm hearing who I consider to be a friend. She may not even remember me, but Janice Dickinson telling me her story and her voice got higher and higher and higher and higher. I'm giving myself chills just remembering it as she recounted what Cosby did to her. And now he's manipulating the justice system just like he manipulated all these women.

I have no doubt in my mind Dickinson and all the other women were telling the truth. Does it ever go away, Dr. Angie? Does it ever go away? Dr. Angie? Does it ever go away? Do you ever wake up one morning and you don't feel helpless and you don't feel like you can't breathe, as she was saying? Does it ever quit?

No. It certainly waxes and wanes, and there are very specific kinds of therapy that people can have that will help them dissociate their actual feelings from the actual trauma that they experience. I'll just never forget speaking to her, and I can tell you this much, it has not subsided for her or so many others. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. What's happening right now is Cosby was convicted on the attack regarding Andrea Konstat. Catch this. Catch this.

Catch this. I want you to hear what his attorneys are saying now. Take a listen to this E! News anchor. Following the ruling, a spokesperson for Cosby told E! News in a statement that they were extremely thankful to the state Supreme Court of Pennsylvania for agreeing to review the appeal, adding, America and the world is witnessing the 23rd day of protests regarding the abuse and murder of black people,

not just at the hands of corrupt police officers, but these extremely vital and important protests are exposing the corruption that lies within the criminal justice system, district attorneys and judges. Andrea Constanz released her own public statement asking the state's court to reconsider releasing Cosby back into the community. While everyone deserves for their cries and appeals to be heard, even convicted criminals, if anyone's cries matter most right now, It's the women who have lifted their voices and selflessly put themselves in harm's way. Such as the prior bad act witnesses in my case.

They are the true heroes. So basically, Bill Cosby is jumping on the injustices committed upon victims like George Floyd. And claiming that somehow he has been victimized. To Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, what exactly is happening? So, Nancy, Cosby was found guilty of three counts of aggravated indecent assault in 2018, and he was sentenced to three to ten years in state prison, and now his attorneys are appealing that. They say it's unfair that five unrelated accusers were allowed to testify in his 2018 sex assault trial. They also are, one of those people was Janice Dickinson,

who you just played audio of, and she alleged, Nancy, and she testified to this at the trial, that Cosby had been following her career, invited her to his hotel. Remember, she was a glamorous model in the 80s. This is when this allegedly happened. She's still glamorous, Levi Page. Put on your glasses. Go ahead.

And gave her wine and a pill. And she said she fell asleep in his hotel room after drinking wine, being drugged. And she woke up to him raping her. She wanted to include this in her autobiography, but her publisher cut it out. They say we're afraid to be sued so we're not including this but there is evidence to back up what she's saying because in 20 2006 she was being interviewed on howard stern and she said bill cosby had been inappropriate with me but i'm not going to go into details because i'm scared but nancy a lot of Yeah, it's funny how you get sued for telling the truth.

Yeah, that happens. Go ahead. She came forward, Nancy, after the Me Too movement broke out, and 60 women have accused Bill Cosby of sex assault. So Cosby's lawyers are upset. You know, Levi Page, I really like you. I like you a lot. But reality, you said they're complaining because unrelated victims. Right now, you said unrelated accusers.

Hold your horses, little boy, because these are not unrelated accusers. Their stories were heard by the judge and they were deemed to be similar transactions. Incidents committed by Bill Cosby in the past that are so similar to his attack on Andrew Konstat that they prove motive, modus operandi, method of operation, course of conduct, frame of mind, basically fingerprint crimes so identical to the case in chief that one tends to prove the other.

In other words, a similar transaction victims, not unrelated accusers, prove the case in chief. That's what a similar transaction is. Is it not, Jim Elliott? Yes, certainly, Nancy. And I caught up on it, Section 404B, among people in your world. And, you know, I'm confident upon review that... You know what, Jim Elliott? I always loved it on elevators in the courthouse

when lawyers would start saying things like you just did, spouting out section 404B subparagraph dot dot I. Or even better, when they try to use Latin terms they learned in law school, like res ipsa loquitur, or there's so many to pick from. And you just watch the jury's eyes just glaze over okay that's it go ahead go crazy okay similar transactions and so i mean i think what's going to happen ultimately supreme court's going to conclude that the trial judge made a very thorough analysis and found that the prior act the other similar transactions were relevant to the case and i think this claim goes away. I think you're right.

And, I mean, think about it. You just heard Levi Page say there were at least 60 other women that made sex attack claims on Bill Cosby. And only these five were allowed in front of the jury as similar transaction evidence, which is allowed in court. I brought in so many similar transactions. I don't even know how many I brought in in cases that I tried in front of juries. But right now, guys, I want you to take a listen to this. Let me hear. Let me find what I want to hear. It is Bill Cosby himself speaking to my old friend Larry King.

Listen to this. Spanish fly was the thing that all boys from age 11 on up to death, we will still be searching for Spanish fly. That's right. And what was the old story was, if you took a little drop, it was on the head of a pin. That's right. Drop it in a Coca-Cola.

It doesn't make a difference. And the girl would drink it and hello, America. Straight out to Dr. Angela Arnold, medical doctor and psychiatrist. What is Spanish fly? I don't know, Nancy. I'm so naive. I would need to look that up. I'm so sorry.

I'll help you out. Spanish fly, well, I bet Cloyd Steiger knows. Cloyd Steiger, Spanish fly, the name has come up in so many sex attack cases. Right. What is it? It's allegedly an aphrodisiac that will turn women on to you or something. I don't know. I don't have any personal experience with it.

I'm glad to hear that. In the Cosby assault trial, Quaaludes came in to. His admitted use to using Spanish fly on women that he wanted to rape did not come into evidence. What came into evidence was his surreptitious doping of women, and once they would pass out, he would then proceed to rape them. Many of them describe him even wearing the same bathrobe every time. Women that were separated in time and space. As a matter of fact, take a listen to what our friend Janice Dickinson tells me. Janice, what was the pretense of flying you there? He told me that I

was going to get a job on the Cosby show that I was going. He was going to, you know, talk to me about, you know, putting me on the Cosby show. And he also told me, you know, I heard you were singing. You want a singing career because he knew prior to that that i had been in rehab in 1982 you know and he had heard because he contacted me in rehab then you know sent me a couple dozen red roses this married pig and he told me that he wanted me to uh he'll have someone hit there helping me with my question career if a married man sent me a couple dozen roses, I would... Excuse me. I mean, it's different.

And women, you know what I mean, if you get flowers or something or fruit, but when you get red roses, a dozen long stem red roses, that sends a completely different message. You are hearing the voice of supermodel Janice Dickinson telling me about how Bill Cosby raped her. MUSIC MUSIC crime stories with nancy grace right now believe it or not cosby's conviction is in jeopardy the case is being appealed based on two major claims there will be other claims thrown in the pot, just throwing it out, see what sticks.

The two that are concerning, number one, is the claim that the judge allowing similar transactions, five other women testify as to their rape at the hand of Bill, by Bill Cosby. One of them is Janice Dickinson. Take a listen to this. Bill Cosby called me out of the blue, and he said, can you come by and see me? And I was like, of course. I went up to his hotel, and I was alone.

He talked about, let me see what type of acting skills you have. I want you to improv. And as I tried to do improv, he fixed a drink and then he brought it to me. It was a brown liquid and it looked like a shot. I told him I didn't drink. He said that this was going to relax me so that the lines would flow out a lot easier. So I did drink it. He made a second drink and had me drink the second drink as well. I noticed myself getting on the edge of the couch. He said, come over here and have a seat.

He had his legs open. And when I sat down, I was sitting down in between his legs with my back to his crotch. He started to stroke my hair back in a petting motion like this. The last things I remember is just feeling the strokes on my head. After that, I don't remember anything else. I remember speaking with Janice Dickinson,

with so many other of his victims, Carla Ferrigno, who is the wife of the Hulk, Lou Ferrigno, who describes his assault on her. The list is endless. Joining me in all-star panel, Jim Elliott, Dr. Angela Arnold, Cloyd Steiger, and Levi Page. Cloyd Steiger, very often when you deal with a rapist, you will find they don't go from zero to 60 MPH overnight. They have a history. And that's just what we see with Cosby. Agree or disagree? Oh, I absolutely agree. They start out small and work their way in grooming, which accelerates to other things, rubbing against women, and sometimes ultimately to rape, whether it's forceful

rape or drugging somebody and raping them, like in this case. And it just, yeah, it's a pattern of behavior. It's who they are, and there's not much they can do about it. I mean, that's the thing. So people have to be protected from those type of people. I want you to take a listen, just to add insult to injury. Throughout this, Camille Cosby, Bill Cosby's wife, has remained largely silent. Well, she broke her silence, and I certainly wish she had not. Take a listen to what she says.

The Me Too movement and movements like them have intentional ignorance pertaining to the history of particular white women, not all white women history of particular white women, not all white women, but particular white women who have, from the very beginning, pertaining to the enslavement of African people, accused black males of sexual assault without any proof whatsoever. No proof anywhere on the face of the earth. And by ignoring that history, they have put out a lie in itself, and that is because I'm female, I'm telling the truth. Well, history disproves that as well.

And gender has never, ever equated with truth. So they need to clean up their acts. And all of us as women who have not participated in anything nefarious, we know how women can lie. We know how they can do the same things that men do, that some men do, because there are good men and bad men. There are good women and bad women. You have called your husband's accusers a mob of women and say that he was railroaded. What would be the motivation for dozens of women to come forward with similar accusations against your husband, accusing him of sexual assault? And also, we have to be mindful that they weren't all white. I mean, there were several black women in those who came forward. Yeah, just joining the group.

You're hearing our friend at ABC News. That was Lindsay Davis questioning Camille Cosby. You know, to Dr. Angela Arnold, how blind, what self-induced blindness do you have to conjure up in order to believe one man, be it your husband or not, versus 60 women and blame it on, quote, women know how we are, how we can lie.

Completely discounting all these women and probably a lot more that never came forward, then blaming it, hopping on the misery surrounding the horrible attack on George Floyd, using that. And then basically when that doesn't fit your argument as to certain of the victims, you go, oh, they're all just lying. They're just jumping on the bandwagon. I mean, how can you ignore the truth? And I also believe, Nancy, when she says these things, it's going to make anything else she says completely unbelievable. Because that is not true. broad sweeping judgments about everybody, about every woman who ever is going to say that they

were, women are never going to get anywhere, are they? They're not going to be able to say that they've been assaulted if other women are going to come out and say, well, you're just lying about that. They've got an uphill battle to climb anyway, don't they? And I was just hearing Lisa Lott Lublin speaking to my longtime friend, Dr. Phil, describing how she was drugged and raped by Cosby. So even right here, as we've been talking for these very few brief moments, we've already heard the words of multiple victims separated in time and space, giving the same account.

I want you to now take a listen to our friend Gloria Allred. I woke up sometime later hearing voices, and it was my friend Judy leaving. I was now in the living area on the couch with my jeans unzipped and my blouse was open. Bill Cosby came and sat down with me on the couch and asked me if I was feeling okay. He had me leaning against him on the couch while his arm was around me and it was then he put his hands inside my open blouse. I remember him then helping me up the stairs to a bedroom. I was in no condition to leave. I was so humiliated that I had passed out and I didn't know what had happened. He had assured me that it was okay to take the pills, but obviously it was not.

I woke up the next morning naked in bed with a naked Bill Cosby. He was touching my belly and on my genital area. The phone rang and it seemed to be a business call, so I got dressed and went downstairs to leave. I was mortified at what had happened. He came down and met me at the front door, and as he opened the door for me, he stopped it part of the way before I could get out, and he said these exact words, this is between you and me. That was Gloria's client, Janice Baker Kinney, describing what happened to her. I mean, who are you going to believe? This one guy or all these people that tell the same story? You would have to believe that they all got together somehow and they've all agreed to lie on Bill Cosby. I mean, how likely is that, Jim? Very much not so. I mean, obviously,

again, I'm very confident the trial judge considered this because, I mean, they're a risk involved with allowing these similar transaction evidence, but I'm confident the judge did a very good job in discerning what was appropriate. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about Bill Cosby. It's not over yet, believe it or not. As his wife, Camille Cosby, comes out fighting, blaming the Me Too movement, his case is on appeal.

It's heading to the highest court in Pennsylvania on multiple grounds. Take a listen to our friends at ABC News. This is Lindsay Davis with a juror from the case. What was the evidence that made you sure beyond a reasonable doubt that he was guilty? I think it was his deposition, really. Ms. Crosby admitted to giving these quaaludes to women, young women, in order to have sex with them. When Andrea was on the stand, did you believe her? Yes. What about those other five women who testified?

If you hadn't heard from the other five and you just had her word, would that have mattered to you? I don't think so, because in the deposition, he stated that he gave these drugs to other women. I don't think it really necessarily mattered that these other five women were here because he said it himself that he used these drugs for other women. So you found it to be his words that were the most damning of all. Yeah. But when you entered the room for the first time, were you sure that he was guilty? No. So what then made the difference for you once you started deliberating? Hearing everyone's comments about certain pieces of evidence and going through the different counts. So you don't feel even now that it was an open and shut case?

No. And that's what you want a juror to say. You don't want them coming in with their mind made up. You want them to hear the evidence and identify which was the most important evidence that led to their decision, be it conviction or acquittal. You were just hearing a juror, Harrison Snyder, speaking with Lindsay Davis about why the jury convicted Bill Cosby. And one of the main reasons was that he admitted to giving women quaaaludes and having sex with them. When you're passed out, you can't give consent to sex. That is rape.

It is not consensual sex because you can't give consent when you're passed out, totally out of it. To Dr. Angela Arnold, psychiatrist joining me out of Atlanta, exactly what is a Quaalude? I know you struck out on Spanish fly. How about Quaaludes? Can you answer that, Arnold? Yes, I can.

A Quaalude is a sedative hypnotic. So it puts people to sleep. And it has horrific side effects. It's so dangerous to do this to someone. And that's what it does. It puts people to sleep. It can also have other side effects in men. It can make men have a sustained erection.

I don't know if he took the Quaalude because that would probably make him fall asleep, but it makes people fall asleep. In a stunning decision that could affect the framework of not only similar transaction law, but the Me Too movement that we have all fought so hard to advance, an appellate court in Pennsylvania is going to hear claims by Bill Cosby that his case should be reversed and thrown out. If a higher court rules that the prosecution in any way is guilty of misconduct, the case could be thrown out with prejudice. That means with no retrial possible.

That's what that means. So the first claim is that the similar transactions should not have been brought in. And the second claim, back to you, Levi Page, refresh, please. The second claim is? The second claim, Nancy, is that he was under a deposition in a civil suit where he admitted that he gave women drugs to make them go to sleep. He admitted that he had done that in the past before at parties. And Nancy, you mentioned Spanish fly. What exactly that is, is it's a beetle in Southern Europe, which emits a chemical from it to attract female partners and it lures females to them during mating season

and in the 80s there was this speculation that you could get these beetles and get that chemical from them and they would sell it as supplements it's now been debunked it doesn't work with humans but people in frat parties in the 80s used to take this and put it in females' drinks, thinking that it would make females attracted to them and be open to them sexually. So that's what Bill Cosby was talking about. And he's actually admitted to it in deposition. And his lawyers are saying, look, he only agreed to do this deposition because he entered into a no prosecution agreement with in the Andrea Constant case back when she first made the allegation and they declined to press charges.

They're saying it should have never been allowed into evidence. As a matter of fact, take a listen to 6 ABC reporter Alicia Vitorelli. This is a big break in this case, a big moment for his team right now. The 82 year old Cosby is behind bars in Skipak Township, Montgomery County. I spoke with two members of his legal team today. They have been appealing Cosby's conviction

for the past two years. They say the timing of this decision is big, especially given the current protests calling for racial justice and equality. Part of the thing is criminal justice reform also. So we feel that this is the road to vindication for Mr. Cosby. And we're very excited that the state Supreme Court would even consider agreeing to review his trial. The court has only agreed to review two aspects of the case. Busby says he had with former District Attorney Bruce Castor that he would give a deposition in a civil lawsuit only if he would never be charged in the case. But that testimony from the civil case was admitted as evidence by another DA in the criminal trial in 2018.

Guys, you're hearing a lot of legal wrangling about Cosby's words under oath in a civil deposition regarding Andrew Konstant. He claims he had an immunity agreement that if he testified under oath at the deposition, he would never be prosecuted for that. Well, that immunity agreement came under attack. But let's just cut the BS. Take a listen to Catherine McKee speaking to the New York Daily News. So I arrived at the hotel, knocked on the door. He opened the door. He was wearing a robe and a hat, cap, and I stepped in and he took the ribs out of my hand, set them down on the table, shut the door, pulled me to him, spun me around, and had his way with me. It was very quick and very fast and it wasn't even, there was nothing i was shocked because i had known him for such a long time and we had a friendly friendship relationship and uh it stunned me and it happened quick fast uh bada boom bada

bing over and out i pulled myself together went into the powder room, you know, straightened myself up. And Bill went and got dressed, came back out and joined me. And we left. Come on, let's go. We left. We went to get in the car and go to this party, which I was driving him because that's why I had come there was to pick him up. So bottom line to you, Jim Elliott, you're hearing yet another victim who I also spoke with describing her rape at the hands of Bill Cosby. How did the immunity agreement get tossed? Was there ever really an immunity agreement to start with? It makes you wonder. I mean, I have to believe he was not rich enough to give the civil deposition without doing so. But I mean, you know, that's something I think there's

not been extensive news coverage about. I'm really curious to hear about the extent of the agreement and its binding authority on other prosecutors and that sort of thing. Well, I find it very difficult to believe that a secret agreement that allows a very wealthy defendant to get out of a rape case. I would agree. I find it very difficult to believe that that is going to be upheld. I would agree with that. And basically leaving any attempt at justice snakebit. I don't agree you can basically buy an immunity agreement. But we'll see as justice unfolds.

Bill Cosby appealing his case to the highest court in Pennsylvania. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.