Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Billionaire Jeff Epstein sex trafficks young girls & gets away with it for YEARS

Episode Date: July 9, 2019

Billionaire Jeffrey Epstein has been arrested on sex trafficking charges. In 2008, the money manager cut a deal with federal prosecutors on previous sex abuse charges after dozens of young girls, some as young as 14, came forward. How has he been able to offend for so long? Nancy Grace is joined by child protection consultant Les Nichols, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan, psychologist Caryn Stark, attorney Jason Oshins and reporter Dave Mack. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. The then underage girls say they were lured by the cash. My mother was on drugs at the time and she couldn't provide for me and I was pretty much homeless. Former Palm Beach Police Chief Michael Ryder says many of the girls didn't know each other but had the same story. We believed that this would end up in a prosecution that would incarcerate Mr. Epstein for the remainder of his life. Federal prosecutors even had a 53-page indictment ready to go according to a court filing. But Epstein,

a hedge fund manager who famously palled around with Donald Trump, Bill Clinton, and Prince Andrew, never faced those serious charges. Instead, a plea deal was struck. He pleaded guilty to two counts related to solicitation of prostitution and only served 13 months in a county jail. I cannot believe it. A 53-page indictment and he managed to dodge it because he's rich and paled around with rich people and famous politicians, including Clinton and Trump. There's even suggestions that Clinton would go with him on a private plane to a quote private island where young girls were brought in. That's yet to be proved. But what I know right now, and this is not about politics. He palled around with Trump too, although I don't know anything

about Trump being on a private plane on a private island but i do know this he must have some kind of pull to escape a jail sentence after a 53 page indictment well the case is cracked open right now millionaire jeffrey epstein now facing sex trafficking charges involving dozens of little girls as young as 14 that we know of, who all, separated in time and space, claim they were paid to perform rape acts on the pedophile. He's been hiding out in Paris before his arrest where they broke down his door of his mansion. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Justice delayed, but is it justice denied? Straight out to Dave Mack, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Dave Mack, what's it all about? It comes down to a very rich man in Epstein with very rich and powerful friends taking advantage of young women in various stages of distress in life.

They were young. We're talking as young as 14. And we're talking about doing it for a number of years. This whole thing unraveled because apparently this secret deal that was arranged, and Nancy, you know much better about this than I do, this secret deal that was arranged that gave him 13 months, even though there was a 53-page indictment, and it was expected he could spend the rest of his life in jail, they never let the victims know about this deal.

And by law, they had to. So over the years, there have been a number of lawsuits filed back and forth. And finally, one of these lawsuits popped up where Mr. Epstein admitted that he was actually untruthful in his accusations against the women and their attorney. And that now is what has allowed this to come back open again. Okay, hold on, hold on. Let me break that down. So everybody remembers Bill Cosby, right? So at some point, Bill Cosby, America's quote funny man,

claimed all of his rape accusers were liars, that they were lying about him. They sued him for slander, saying they were telling the truth. And that's really what cracked this case open because he had to give a deposition because of the lawsuit. And in that deposition, he admitted he gave people Quaaludes and then took advantage of them. That all came back to haunt him when those depots were made public. In this case, what Dave Mack just said, I think Jason Oceans, is that after a 53-page indictment, he gets a light sentence of about 13 months, which he does at a, let me say, country club prison. Yeah, work release in a county jail.

Walks free. He should have done life plus 20. And when these girls were accusing him and trying to find out what was happening, he sued them. Is that the way it went down, Jason? You know, just a little more background. He allegedly flew with former President Clinton, you know, 20 some odd times down to this private island. So in terms of the why the prosecution didn't go forward, A, there were powerful people. It is about politics to some degree for sure. And if you're listening to the initial clip, her mother was drug addicted. There were a lot of problems with these victims because that was probably why they were picked, so that there was some level of distrust in what they might say.

But this Crime Victims Act suit, that was what triggered this to come back into the open and revisit all of this. So let me understand. Tell me one more time in simple terms, Dave Mack, how did this blow open. As you mentioned, it came down to the lawsuit back and forth and the depositions where Mr. Epstein actually finally had to admit in public that even though during the course of the investigation, he accused these victims of lying and accused their attorney of lying. The attorney's name is Mr. Bradley, and he accused everybody of lying when it finally came back around. And it goes to the fact that the prosecution the feds never actually uh made the victims aware of the sentence that they had agreed to with regard to epstein only getting 13 months and based on the way the law is they had to be notified that this was these were

the terms of the sentence so with him being allowed to get away with this, you know, the deferred prosecution, if you want to call it that. Did the women, the girls, sue him for libel and slander, or is that wrong? They did. They actually, it spun around in that deposition because they were claiming that they were never informed about his sentence. And that's where they challenged him in all things, from the sentence to the fact that he accused them of lying. And that's when the depositions came out and he admitted that he actually did lie about them lying. So here's a that we know of as young as 14 years old, a little girl brought to a mansion, told she's going to have an interview to be a model. She's taken upstairs to meet Epstein and it turns into a rape joining me right now is a very special

guest Les Nichols the past president of the National Coalition to Prevent Child Sex Abuse and Exploitation Les Nichols thank you for being with us now a consultant at R.L. Nichols and Associates Les Nichols explain to me your understanding of the facts surrounding these claims against millionaire Jeff Epstein. I'll say this. This fits into a much bigger pattern in worldwide as well as U.S. society. The scope of sex abuse and the scope of sexual trafficking is just unimaginable to most people. And some of the points that were brought up earlier about regarding the civil suit or the

civil suits, it's interesting because those are what drive things forward. It is rarely the criminal cases that really change things. It's the follow-up civil cases with the depositions and the exposure that start to change the elements in our society, whether it's organizations, institutions, whether it's government institutions, that starts to change what happens as a result of these. But this is the scope of sexual trafficking is maybe $100 billion a year. What I'm asking is what is your understanding of the facts of this case involving Jeff Epstein? My understanding is that he participated in sexual trafficking, which is a huge industry. He had the wherewithal to be able to cover this up. He had the access. He could afford it. He could buy the privacy. He could share that with others who were in powerful positions, such as was mentioned earlier the number of times that President Clinton traveled with him. And he simply benefited at a much higher scale from what many people do at a much lower scale.

As a billionaire, he was able to multiply what he was able to do. To Dave Mack, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, we got bogged down in the mechanics of the previous lawsuit. What is your understanding of the facts in this case? That Mr. Epstein was able to procure women from all over. They're not women. They're girls. You're right. You know what? I'll tell you what this case is about. This case is about a billionaire who has been getting away, according to the prosecution, for decades of picking up little girls, using other women, his so-called assistants and partners, to go procure little girls as young as 14, bringing them to his mansion, whether it be in New York, Miami, a private island, and raping them. Flying them all around in private planes to other locations to pass the girls around to other men.

Very powerful men that could pay to have these girls. That's what the case is about. Prime Stories with Nancy Grace. It ended with sexual abuse and intercourse and then a pat on the back. You've done a really good job. Like, you know, thank you very much and here's $200. You know, before you know it, I'm being lent out to politicians and to academics and to people that you, royalty and people that you just, you would never think, like, how did you get into that position of power in the first place if you're this disgusting, evil, decrepit person on the inside?

You are hearing an alleged Epstein victim, Virginia Roberts, who was a girl at the time. She says she began being prostituted out by Jeff Epstein to many, many powerful men. Will she be believed? Jason Oceans, a New York attorney joining me, my stomach is hurting right now. But as a trial lawyer, I would have to, as a prosecutor, acknowledge my victims have credibility issues. They're going to be attacked because they're children. They're going to be attacked because they sued for money damages. Epstein, they're going to be attacked because maybe their mom had a drug problem or they were transient. But those are just the kind of people that somebody like Epstein would pick as a victim. He's not going to try to go meet my little girl over at our Methodist church during Sunday school and get her out of that to go fly off in his private jet. No, that ain't going to happen.

Predators like him look for vulnerable victims. That's why these girls, that's exactly why these girls have credibility issues. And that does not mean they're not telling the truth. And also, Jason Oceans, the fact that there are so many of them that don't know each other, that have not communicated with each other, that are separated in time and space, that could not collaborate on a story, have the same story. That is not a coincidence, Jason Oceans. No, Nancy, I don't disagree with you. I think your narrative is right on point in terms of,

you know, what would look to be, you know, a diabolical plot. I mean, all the things were in place to be able to, you know, manipulate this from power and politics and money and all of that, make a collective cabal in something that's just absolutely evil. I want you to take a listen to our friend Stephanie Gosk at NBC. This is video of Jeffrey Epstein's home taken by investigators during a search of the multimillionaire's Palm Beach mansion. It is where Epstein was involved with at least 40 underage girls, some of whom he had sex with, according to court filings obtained by NBC News. Several of his accusers speaking out for the first time to the Miami Herald. I was 16. I was 16.

I started going to him when I was like 14, 15, 14 turning 15. A report from the Palm Beach Police Department alleges the girls were promised money in exchange for massages and that a female who recruited young teens for the tycoon allegedly told one victim, the more you do, the more you get paid. He just laid down in his towel on his stomach and he was just talking to people on the phone. When he flipped over, that's when he said, okay, you can go ahead and take off your shirt and pants. The accounts include accusations from indecent exposure to inappropriate touching to rape. You're hearing our friend Stephanie Gosk at NBC and one of the alleged victims to Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert,

professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Joe Scott, here's an issue. There's no DNA. There's no fingerprints. There's no ripped clothing. There's no forensic evidence at all because that does not mean the incidents did not occur. That means that so much time has passed, nothing is left. And you know he's had those mansions cleaned, deep cleaned, triple cleaned, steamed, scrubbed, you name it, Joe Scott. Yes, you're absolutely right. No physical evidence in that sense. This has been going on for 14 years, Nancy. The first complaint came up back in 2005. Let's think about that. 2005. And Lord knows what was happening before then. But let me tell you about some other evidence that can come to light. with journalists using the term Lolita Express. I think that it diminishes what these little children have gone through.

That's the plane that he used to fly back and forth. You do have other evidence here. You've got things called flight logs. They'll have to talk about, the prosecutor can talk about who was on board those planes. You can bring that pilot to task that can talk about the timeline,

who they flew down there, and all these other peripherals. Because let me tell you, as the cops begin to apply pressure, now that the floodgates are open to all of these peripheral individuals that are looking to see their lives completely destroyed by this, they're going to start to sing. And you're going to have testimonial evidence at that moment in time that will come forward. And another thing, Joseph Scott Morgan, you refer to his private plane as Lolita Express. Joseph Scott is referring to a very famous work of fiction where a young girl referred to as Lolita had relations with a professor, a much older professor.

Not only was Jeffrey Epstein's private plane called, nicknamed Lolita Express, his private island was known as Orgy Island. That's just the kind of thing I would want a jury to hear. But another thing, Joe Scott Morgan, you and I have prosecuted and testified at state level. This is the feds. They ain't playing Joe Scott. No, they're not. He has certainly messed with fire at this point in time because, you know, we go back to this idea of sexual trafficking.

All this stuff started down in Palm Beach. Now he has gone, well, he's gone to the Virgin Islands now. He's crossed over international waters. He's gone to one of our territories. This is where this trafficking comes in. He is taking these poor children down to this island so that he can literally pass them around among his wealthy and powerful friends to use these poor kids however they see fit. And now he's going straight into the teeth of the feds.

You know, Joe Scott, remember we were just at Crime Con in New Orleans, and you know, of course, I had my children with me, because I was going to be gone over two nights. That's the rule. Did you see my little girl, Lucy? She's going to be 12 in a couple of months. These girls are just 24 months older than my little Lucy, my little sweet girl. And I just don't understand how this has been hidden and covered up for so long. Listen to our friend,

Stephanie Gosk at NBC. He arranged it so that he got work release, which meant that he had a valet, a driver that he hired, pick him up at the jail every day and essentially drive him to an office. The former U.S. attorney who approved the deal, Alexander Acosta, is now President Trump's Secretary of Labor, and a possible pick for Attorney General. A Labor Department spokesperson tells NBC News that the U.S. Attorney's Office defended the deal across three administrations and pointed out that Secretary Acosta was asked about the plea deal during his confirmation hearing last year. Professionals within a prosecutor's office decide that a plea that guarantees that someone goes to jail, that guarantees that someone register generally, and that guarantees other

outcomes is a good thing. The former Palm Beach police chief disagrees. I think almost the entire system failed them. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. He arranged it so that he got work release, which meant that he had a valet, a driver that he hired, pick him up at the jail every day and essentially drive him to an office. The former U.S. attorney who approved the deal, Alexander Acosta, is now President Trump's Secretary of Labor and a possible pick for Attorney General. A Labor Department spokesperson tells NBC News that the US Attorney's Office defended the deal across three administrations and pointed

out that Secretary Acosta was asked about the plea deal during his confirmation hearing last year. Professionals within a prosecutor's office decide that a plea that guarantees that someone goes to jail, that guarantees that someone register generally, and that guarantees other outcomes is a good thing. The former Palm Beach police chief disagrees. I think almost the entire system failed them. You're hearing our friend Stephanie Gosk at NBC. Well, you know what has hit the fan finally, and it's been a long time coming. Billionaire, that's B as in brother, billionaire, pedophile, Jeff Epstein,

just arrested in a new underage sex case. And I don't know why they keep saying underage sex is statutory rape when a child is just 14 years old. What I don't understand is many years ago he was busted on this. His case allegedly implicates royalty. Gee, I wonder who that is. Presidents and many other rich powerful and influential targets so somehow this guy manages to be in the county jail which nobody does for a sentence over 12

months ever he stays in the county jail and actually has a valet, a private driver, pick him up every day, drive him to his office. And for three, three presidential administrations, I'm talking about Republican and Democrat, they have defended the plea deal. And now the guy in charge of the deal, Acosta, as a potential U.S. Attorney General over my cold, dead body. I don't care if he's a Republican, a Democrat, an Independent, a Green, a Communist. I don't care what he is. This is wrong. This is so wrong. Finally, Epstein goes to jail. The hedge funder, who 12 years ago wiggled out of similar charges of raping young girls,

is going to appear in a federal court in Manhattan. Charges of trafficking dozens of little girls between 2002 and 2005 in New York and Florida, where he has mansions. He was busted at Teterboro Airport in New Jersey. That's a private airport where only private planes land. At the same time he was busted, about 12 federal agents were literally breaking down the door of his $50 million mansion on East 71 in the Upper East Side

to execute search warrants. Straight out to Karen Stark joining me, New York psychologist. You can find her at karenstark.com. Before I get into the psychology of this, tell me about East 71st Street. What kind of area is that? That's the Upper East Side, Nancy. It's a very wealthy area. Right around that area, you'll find the ex-mayor Bloomberg. It's really where one of the places where the elite of New York reside. And it's right there on the East River. So you can look out on the water if you're up in one of those penthouses. Karen Stark, do you think he had any inkling, or do you think for all these years he was laughing on the inside?

And you know he did not quit abusing girls. That never happened. It didn't happen. You're right. No, that he had gotten away with it, chumming around with all his rich friends. Not only do I think that he had an instinct that he got away with it, Nancy. I think that he was really full of pride and excited and proud of the fact that he was able to get away with it because he has no conscience. And I want to add something about these girls. They're minors. There is a reason why minors cannot be held in any kind of as being responsible for what happened to them

because they can't make those kind of decisions. They're easily influenced. You can tell them, come on up, you're going to be a model, and push them into a situation like that. So nobody can be held, none of these girls can be held responsible for what happened to them. Take a listen to our friend at CBS, Major Garrett. What is Mr. Epstein's connection to former President Bill Clinton?

And how well, given that it's in Palm Beach, does he know the current president, Donald Trump? So I don't want to get too far out of my repertorial abilities here. This is not a story I have followed closely. They are associated by name, and I believe they've traveled together, Jeffrey Epstein and former President Bill Clinton. I have no clue whatsoever how well Jeffrey Epstein knew or didn't know Donald Trump either before he was president or as president. I do know in general, and I mean in a very general sense, having been down to Palm Beach a lot in and around the trump story both campaign and presidency that a lot of people who are well healed and wealthy tend to know one another bump

into each other at the same places that's a general impression i don't have any specific information about times or places or whether or not they know each other very well at all you know i think part of the problem to less nickelols, special guest joining us, the past president of the National Coalition to Prevent Child Sex Abuse and Exploitation. Les Nichols, I think part of the problem is that people, the public, believe the rich, the powerful, the educated would never do something like this. So what, in your mind, does a sex predator look like, a child sex trafficker? You know, that's a great question because that is the first stumbling block for the general public, is that there is no profile for a sexual predator, particularly people who would exploit children. They could be from any walk of life.

And that's what makes it even harder because the more we look up to people, the more cover it provides them. I mean, at a local level, we think of our coach or a teacher or a minister or someone who's just a wonderful volunteer in the community and we look up to that person we would never imagine that they are a sexual predator interested in sex with children then just magnify that to someone like Bill Cosby or Jerry Sandusky, people that people admire would want to emulate. And then you get up to a level like a billionaire, like Mr. Epstein. And it's just so hard for people to get their head around the fact that anyone could do this.

But literally anyone could, male or female. There's fairly recent studies as much as 7% of the U.S. adult population have some level of sexual interest in children. That's about 16 to 17 million Americans that have some level of sexual interest in children. Very hard for people to understand. What about it to you, Karen Stark, New York psychologist? I think Les Nichols is right. Les Nichols, now consultant at R.L. Nichols and Associates. Karen, I remember prosecuting child molestation cases, and very often the perps would be educated,

they'd have a great job, they'd have a wife and a family. Here with Epstein, he's a hedge fund expert. He is a billionaire with mansions all over the world. A lot of people would not think of him as a pedophile, but I guarantee you those ritzy country clubs where he brushed elbows with all the other millionaires, they all knew. They'd all go, mm-hmm, he's into little girls. I guarantee you they all knew, Karen. I'm sure they all knew, Nancy, or many of them knew. But, you see, the fact that you had that kind of a sexual predilection, I'm not coming out with the right word. If you are inclined to be somebody who goes

after young girls, then it doesn't matter whether it's somebody you would think on the street, oh my God, he looks that way, or a very wealthy person, or the head of a company, somebody in politics, it can cross all lines because it's a desire and that kind of a desire which is not the norm nevertheless exists in our society and you could be sure it's everywhere crime stories with nancy grace you know they really want to see him go to prison they want to see him punished for the crimes that he committed i mean we know because of evidence that has come to light over the past several years that he wasn't just doing this in Palm Beach. He's accused of trafficking girls in New York and other places around the world.

And, you know, the question is out there is why haven't federal authorities reopened this case or at least opened a new case in another jurisdiction. And I think that these women feel that prosecutors in the Justice Department has just worked to help cover up this case rather than expose what Epstein did and to find some kind of justice for these girls. Billionaire hedge funder Jeffrey Epstein just arrested. His door literally broken down. The doorman at his New York high-rise says that there was a constant stream of girls going in and out of the apartment at all hours. A continuous parade into Epstein's apartment of young girls.

They looked like models. And he couldn't even tell their ages, he says, because of all the makeup they wear. As a bizarre coincidence, Woody Allen, charged by his family with child sex abuse. And Bill Cosby lived there too. Wow. Okay. The doorman who wanted to remain anonymous says that he has a daughter who's just turning 14 and that he would put a bullet in Epstein's head. But, you know, that's neither here nor there.

An indictment to be unsealed, including victims, witnesses who spoke to the feds over the past several months. Dave Mack, what's it all about? Nancy, we've been expecting this. Federal prosecutors announced sex trafficking and conspiracy charges against Jeffrey Epstein, and some experts are suggesting that this federal indictment is really a placeholder for prosecutors expecting a much larger superseding indictment to be forthcoming. The then teen girl victims elated that something's finally happened. Epstein has been hit, was hit with a slap on the wrist 12 years ago after more than 30 underage

girls were brave enough to come forward and describe being lured by money and threats to Epstein's mansions in Manhattan at a Caribbean island known as Orgy Island in Palm Beach. There they performed sex acts with a wealthy hedge funder and all of his friends that go from erotic massages to statutory rape. He managed to plead guilty to very small charges with one very inconsequential, let me just say, very light charges involving only one single minor under the age of 18. He got 18 months in a Florida state jail and they closed the investigation. He only served 13 months where he would have a valet pick him up every day and go to his office. Then he goes back to the Upper East Side to celebrate his release with his close pal Britain's Prince Andrew.

Back to Dave Mack, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. You know how much I do not care about politics. But could you tell me again, how many times did Clinton fly, President Bill Clinton, fly on the Lolita Express private plane of Jeffrey Epstein's to Orgy Island? 26 times, Nancy. That's what's been documented. 26. Okay.

Joe Scott Morgan again. Could you explain to me how that can be corroborated? Well, there are things called flight logs, Nancy. That means that every time that plane takes off, it has a registered tail number. And that plane is giving evidence. And trust me, if former President Clinton is is in tow if he is on this plane there's going to be corroborated uh through logs say for instance he has a secret service detail that tracks along with him wherever he goes so you can actually pair those two things up so the time

that the plane leaves and uh you know pair that up with the time that the plane leaves and, you know, pair that up with the time that the Secret Service brought President Clinton to the airport to put him on the plane. I guess they traveled with him. So once they travel with him, they have to fly back. You know, what time did the plane land? Then when do they get in the limos and take back off again? So this is going to be easily, easily documented by prosecutors moving forward. You know, it's such a hot potato right now because Acosta is within the Trump administration. So this is dragging Trump into the whole thing, too. I mean, the implications of this are huge. So you've got Acosta embedded within the current presidential administration. You've got Clinton on the Lolita Express, good gravy, to Les Nichols, child protection consultant at R.L. Nichols and Associates.

You know, when people hear the phrase child sex trafficking, they think, for instance, Thailand or other countries that seem so far, far away. It's happening right here, Les Nichols, right under our noses. Oh, is it ever? And in fact, Nancy, you know, when you fly into Atlanta Airport, I believe still the largest airport in the country, what you're greeted with are warnings about sexual trafficking and posters in the airport about sexual trafficking. That's because Atlanta has become the leader out of about nine or ten cities in the U.S. It's currently the lead for sexual trafficking and for tourism, sexual tourism. And the reason is the location and the ease.

I mean, Atlanta is so perfectly located in a central location. About two-thirds of the country can get to Atlanta in about two and a half hours. You can fly in in the morning, have an arrangement, have someone pick you up in their limo, have sex with a child, fly back home that night. Have dinner with your family. It's just so easy. You know, when you say sexual tourism, I know that that's a common phrase,

but it almost makes it sound like, you know, a fun thing. Yeah, it's just harmless. I know, but that's one of the terms used to describe it. To Jason O Ocean, renowned defense attorney joining me from New York. Jason, under federal law, the victims had to be notified when this slap on the wrist went down, 13 months in a private valet, but they weren't. And then they filed suit over that. What really cracked this case wide open and ends up with Epstein being arrested again,

his front door literally broken into with a battering ram? Well, that was under the Crimes Victims Rights Act. They pursued the victims. One of the victims pursued that. And eventually the court ruled that recently that it needed to be opened up and that non-prosecutorial agreement, the NPA, was not valid because they weren't notified. So they used that act, that federal act, to crack the non-prosecutorial agreement, the NPA.

They popped that open. The government initially argued that some of the victims might be harmed by this, which is possible. There were financial settlements that could come into play. But nonetheless, the prosecutors made, I believe, as we all do here, the right decision to reopen it up and take a good, fresh look. And obviously to the point of an indictment here and under arrest. Well, another group I want to look at are all of those women, his so-called assistants that would allegedly go out and find the victims and bring them in for their, quote, modeling appointments.

We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.