Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Billionaire perv Jeffrey Epstein's lady-pimp Ghislaine Maxwell in hiding

Episode Date: June 5, 2020

Netflix's new document "Filthy Rich" chronicles Jeffrey Epstein's manipulation of power, celebrity, and wealth to build a sex abuse empire. As his victims try to get justice after Epstein's death, the push remains to hold enablers like Ghislaine Maxwell accountable for their actions.Maxwell's name repeatedly appears in charges from victims that she "found" the girls for Epstein. Maxwell maintains her innocence from relative obscurity. Where is Maxwell and why hasn't she been charged?Joining Nancy Grace today: Ashley Willcott - Judge and trial attorney, Anchor on Court TV Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Beverly Hills  Cloyd Steiger - 36 years with Seattle Police Department, 22-year Homicide Detective & Author of "Seattle's Forgotten Serial Killer: Gary Gene Grant"  Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics at Jacksonville State University, Author of "Blood Beneath My Feet" Levi Page - Investigative Reporter, CrimeOnline  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. The name Jeffrey Epstein will forever live in infamy. The alleged billionaire ordering up young girls for sex like they're a Domino's pizza. But it went beyond that. It went to potential involvement with the Florida police who allowed him to walk out of the jailhouse every day after a cheap plea, sex-related, and go to his office and stay behind closed doors all day long by limo, where there would be a parade of young girls in and out of the office, day in, day out, and nobody did anything.

That was his punishment. From there, we find out he's connected to powerful politicians, including presidents, millionaires, even Prince Andrew, and women that actually pimped for him, according to his victims, reeling in young girls for him to molest. What's happening with them? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Women reeling in young girls to rape, yet to molest. What's happening with them?

Why is nobody hunting them down and seeking justice? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111, the Triumph Channel. Take a listen now to Filthy Rich. There was something happening here that was bigger than just Jeffrey Epstein. He was known as this Gatsby-like figure of mystery. He was stunningly rich. He had a $20 million house.

His own private island in the Caribbean. He has a nickname, the Pedophile Island. In 2005, the Palm Beach Police Department received reports of young women going to and from his residence. There was an ever-evolving door of girls. Who else was underage? All of them. And those girls brought other girls, too. It's a trade, and it goes on and on and on. This case would put him in prison the rest of his life.

Have you ever solicited a minor for prostitution? I'm going to invoke my Fifth Amendment right. Netflix's Filthy Rich. Joining me in All-Star panel to break it down and put it back together again, Ashley Wilcott, judge and trial lawyer, joining me an all-star panel to break it down and put it back together again ashley wilcott judge and trial lawyer court tv anchor at ashleywilcott.com dr bethany marshall psychoanalyst joining us out of beverly hills you can find her at drbethanymarshall.com cloyd steiger 36 years seattle pd 22 of that homicide and author of seattle's forgottenten Serial Killer, Gary Jean Grant. He's at

cloydsteiger.com, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, and author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator. But now to crimeonline.com's Levi Page. Levi, we know what Epstein did about much of the molestation of young girls he committed and got away with it because he was rich. But what about the women who enabled him? Who is Ghislaine Maxwell? Ghislaine Maxwell, Nancy, is a woman who is from the UK. Her father is very rich and powerful from there. She inherited a lot of money after his death.

She came to the United States, New York City, and she was a socialite. She hung out with Ivanka Trump. She met Jeffrey Epstein, would hang around with him. And it is alleged that she would find underage girls, under 18, tell them that, hey, I have a friend. His name is Jeffrey Epstein. He needs a masseuse. We'll pay you to come give him a massage. It wasn't a massage. They were raped. And she is the woman that allegedly entrapped these young women in his evil plot. Take a listen now to Netflix's Filthy Rich. The very first victim was about 14 years old at that time.

We were able from the interview to figure out exactly where the house was. From the description the victim provided, it was clear that it was Mr. Epstein. The case was assigned to our Special Investigations Unit partly because of the nature of the crime and partly because Mr. Epstein was a powerful, influential person. Joe Ricari was the lead investigator of the case. Unfortunately, Joe Ricari passed away a few years ago, but at the time, he believed there were other victims,

so he began contacting them and listening to their stories. I appreciate you coming down to talk to me. You're not in any trouble whatsoever. Okay. I just want to put that out there right now. How did you meet Mr. Epstein? Through a friend. Like, two years ago or so.

About two years ago or so. About two years ago? Yeah. When you first met him? Yeah. You were 17 then? Mm-hmm. What is it that you were told you would have to do?

Give him a massage. Yeah, well, that's some massage that ended up in molesting young girls. To Ashley Wilcott, judge and trial lawyer, Court TV anchor, you're hearing one Epene victim speaking to law enforcement, but there were multiple young girls that have the same story. I mean, how likely is it that multiple young girls have the same story, girls that are separated in time and space and don't know each other? Yeah, it's not at all likely. There's so many different pieces, aspects of this that really are bothersome to me. And I don't understand. All of these girls do have the same story. If you have an adult that's assisting, that's getting,

that's soliciting, that adult should have been charged with child endangerment, accessory soliciting, any of those things. The other thing, though, is he was smart in a criminal disgusting way that he would use minors to try to get other girls. Well, apparently, according to reports, he didn't just use minors to recruit their friends for underage sex. He used an accomplished, educated woman, Gillian Maxwell, who now apparently is not facing any charges herself. Take a listen to this. In 2005, the parent of a young girl called the police station. Hello? Hi, how are you? I'm good. I'm returning your call. I apologize, I don't know exactly what for.

It's okay. It was an incident that occurred maybe like three, three and a half weeks ago with one of my stepdaughters. One day at school, she got into a fight and she had over $300 on her. So after asking her and asking her and asking her what was going on, I found out that it ended up being that they went to Palm Beach to a gentleman's house and they start off by giving this gentleman a massage. If he pays them, and he pays them if he likes them and he thinks that they're pretty enough he keeps them around to do other things okay so i was i wasn't quite sure if there was an investigation or if you guys had any

well this is the first i'm hearing of it okay what i will need is some more information would your stepdaughter be willing to come in to provide me with a statement. When a juvenile reports that they have been a victim of a sex crime to the police department, we immediately take that very serious. Parent was asked to bring the victim into the police station. A detective conducted an interview immediately upon that victim's report to us, which we found very credible. We launched an investigation. Yeah, well, what happened to that? This is a 2005 recorded conversation with a police officer where Officer Pagan returns a call to a grown woman making a complaint, 2005, about billionaire Jeffrey Epstein recruiting young girls

from school, from school. She says her stepdaughter has this huge wad of money. And then the stepdaughter finally admits to her. She went to this rich guy's house, Epstein, gave him a massage, and then it escalated to other things. In other words, underage sex. So what happened to that? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about not just Jeffrey Epstein,

but the woman who allegedly made his underage sex, that's called statutory rape, possible. A jet setter, millionaire in her own right, Ghislaine Maxwell, who apparently in the last days brags, it comes out, quote, look for Jeffrey's type and I bring him home. This is according to Prince Andrew of Britain's cousin, tells how Ghislaine Maxwell brags that she recruited young underage girls for Epstein from parks, and that she, Gillen Maxwell, was intent on marrying Jeffrey Epstein. What's happened to her case? She would go out and recruit young girls to be statutory raped by a billionaire?

She's not behind bars? Help me out with that, Levi Page. What's happening with the investigation into Ghislaine Maxwell? She is being investigated, Nancy, but the problem is that she is unable to be located because in addition to being investigated for aiding and abetting him and his plot to traffic underage girls. A lot of these women have filed civil lawsuits against her and her attorneys that are representing her can't even find her. She sold her properties in London and New York and people don't even know where she is. Really? You know what I say to that? Follow the money. You know, Cloyd Steiger, 36 years, Seattle PD, 22 of that on Homicide and Author. You know how rich people are?

They cannot live without their money and their personal shoppers and their cooks and their chauffeurs and blah, blah, blah. Cloyd, if she sold her homes in New York and London, I think it's what Levi just said, that money went somewhere. And that money is being used to fund her lifestyle. That's how you find her? Probably to Switzerland. Yeah, probably to Switzerland, I would think.

But, you know, yeah, she is. You're right. She can't go be a suburban woman living in a 2,000 square foot house because her lifestyle depends on it. And she has to do this. And eventually you'll find her. They'll find her because of the money. But they're not even really looking for her other than a civil case.

That's the tragedy of it. She was last spotted that we know of in this past August 2019 at an In-N-Out burger in LA, unless that picture had been staged. Joe Scott Morgan, you certainly know your way around the courtroom and investigation. You're a forensics investigator and death investigator. So how do we find Ghislaine Maxwell and what do you make of that photo taken of her last August? I saw that when it dropped, Nancy, at the In-N-Out Burger. I swear that's got to be the one right by LAX. It looked like it to me. I've been there a number of times when I've flown into LA. If it was something, some people have actually proposed the idea that the photo had been taken sometime in the distant past, and then it was released to give an young girls for Epstein, she's got people working

on her behalf as well. And I think that a lot of this goes toward her attorneys. You're going to tell me that those attorneys don't know where she is. Of course they know where she is. They're protecting her. And she needs to be protected because, look, she's guilt. She's in. She is essentially implicated in very, very serious crimes, not the least of which is, I think, human trafficking, because I got to tell you, Nancy, all these girls that are out there. We're not just talking about the ones in West Palm Beach. I'm talking about the girls from Eastern Europe that were allegedly on the island that Epstein had. You mean Orgy Island? Orgy Island. I want to know what became of those girls. Are you telling me that you flew them all back to Eastern Europe or did you just cut them loose in the United States or is it something more sinister? He's still got, you know, this ranch out in New Mexico. I wonder if all of those thousands and thousands of acres have been thoroughly searched. You know,

look, I'm a cynic. I'm a medical legal death investigator by trade. I assume the worst in most of these cases. I want to know where these kids are. And she is the key, the linchpin to this whole thing. In the past days, another alleged victim of Jeffrey Epstein, the billionaire child rapist, cannot find his pimp, Ghislaine Maxwell, to serve a complaint on her. That's a civil case for money. But what about the crimes? Why are we hearing nothing about crimes being charged against Ghislaine Maxwell? And why in the world would she want to marry Jeffrey Epstein? Take a listen to Jeffrey Epstein himself on Netflix. Have you ever been convicted of a crime?

Yes. What was the crime of which you were convicted? Two counts. One, soliciting prostitution and procuring a minor for prostitution. Did you, in fact, commit those acts? I'm going to invoke my Fifth Amendment right. How many times have you solicited a minor for prostitution? Same answer. How many times have you solicited a minor for prostitution

in the state of Florida? Same answer. Have you ever solicited a minor for prostitution in the Virgin Islands? Same answer. That is, you are invoking your Fifth Amendment right? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Right? Yes, Mr. Skrull.

Have you ever solicited for prostitution in New York? Same answer. Have you ever solicited for prostitution in New Mexico? Same answer. Have you ever solicited for prostitution in Paris? Same answer. Have you ever solicited a minor for prostitution anywhere at any time? Again, I'm gonna to assert my right.

Let's take another break. We're going to go through everything. So you are terminating the deposition at this time? The recess is the deposition. If he had not solicited prostitution with a minor, a child, in all of those places in New York, Paris, London, the island in the Caribbean, he would have said, no, I haven't. If someone came up and said, hey, are you guilty of soliciting prostitution with a minor? I'm like,

say no, absolutely not. Instead, he invoked his right to the Fifth Amendment, your right to remain silent. This is after already pleading guilty to prostitution with a minor in Florida, where he got a slap on the wrist. But the billionaire pedophile Jeffrey Epstein is one issue. Another can of worms is the socialite millionaire in her own right, Ghislaine Maxwell, who got the girls for him. To Dr. Bethany Marshall, did you hear where a cousin of Prince Andrew, we know it now to be Christina Oxenberg, talked about how Ghislaine Maxwell bragged that she would procure, as she said, procure underage girls for Epstein and very often would focus on trailer parks to find his victims. Did you hear that? It makes me so mad. I want to chew a nail in half.

Okay, Nancy, I thought about the pattern of child sex crimes and how they're similar, whether it's Michael Jackson or we have Harvey Weinstein, or we have Jeffrey Epstein. So Galen Maxwell found women who were financially vulnerable. Michael Jackson found children from poor families. Harvey Weinstein found women who were wanting a role in a movie script. They all entice them and offer something big, like for a 13 or 14-year-old, $200 or $300 for a massage. I mean, that's everything. You could go buy a purse. You could go buy a pair of shoes. Michael Jackson built a whole theme park to lure children. Weinstein offered them these huge movie roles. You can see the pattern is the same from perpetrator

to perpetrator. They always find victims that are at the fringe of society and they think won't tell on them. No, everybody's surprised that a woman like Gillian Maxwell would procure these girls and then want to marry Jeffrey Epstein. But it is not uncommon for women to commit crimes against children in concert with the man they love. Look at children who are molested by stepfathers and the mothers stand by and do nothing. Or they go and they find rape victims for their husbands or their partners. Women do act in concert with men all the time. In this case, it's just more dramatic because there is

so much money. I've never been at a death scene like Floyd Steiger, like Joe Scott Morgan, but I do practice in Beverly Hills where there's a lot of money. And where there's a lot of money, there's a lot of coverups. There are a lot of people who will collude with you, act in concert with you, look the other way and act like nothing bad is happening. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about not only billionaire child pedophile Jeffrey Epstein, but the woman who made it possible for him to locate and recruit little girls to rape and molest and pay off and keep silent. Her name is Gillen Maxwell. And what I'm asking to the feds today is,

why haven't you arrested her and brought her to justice? Why? Why is Gillian Maxwell running free? Because she's rich? Because she's cultured, educated, white? Why? Or is there some other reason you don't want her found? Take a listen now to Jeffrey Epstein speaking on the Netflix special Filthy Rich. Emphasis on filthy. Let's talk about Jando 102, Virginia Roberts. Do you know Virginia Roberts?

So she's, again, who? Virginia Roberts. Can you spell it? Common spelling, Virginia, like the state. Can you spell it for me, please? Roberts. How is it, what's the last name? How is it spelled?

R-O-B-E-R-T-S, I believe. Isn't it true that you and Glenn Maxwell celebrated her 16th birthday with her and had sex with her on that day? Form, compound, confusing, argumentative, and harassing. I'd like to answer that question. But today, I'm gonna have to assert my Sixth Amendment rights, my Fifth Amendment rights. Is it true that you forced Virginia Roberts to have sex

with numerous friends of yours? What? Are you kidding? An a-hole. Can you spell Virginia? No, spell it. No, spell it, he says to opposing counsel. And the last name, Roberts. Spell it. What a jackass. And now we learn through a very reliable source, this is Prince Andrew's cousin. Her name is Christina Oxenberg. That Ghislaine Maxwell bragged that she procured underage girls for Jeffrey Epstein to rape.

Yet she and other people that facilitated this over the period of years has not been brought to justice. Why? To Chloe Steiger, 36 years Seattle PD, why do you believe the feds aren't tracking down Ghislaine Maxwell? You know, I have no idea because this is like the slam dunk case. It's all lined up. And, you know, just the arrogance of Epstein in the interview. You know, he's a control freak. He has to be in control. That's why he's making him spell a common name.

Yeah, well, that's the understatement of the year. Now, he says that, well, he invoked the wrong amendment. He used six, but he meant fifth. He corrected himself. But he's making co-counsel, opposing counsel, spell the name of one of his alleged victims. I want you to listen to what this girl, Virginia Roberts Jeffrey, says. Listen. I first met Prince Andrew March 10, 2001, in London at Gillen's townhouse.

He knocked on the door. He came inside Gillen's townhouse, and we're sitting there having tea. Ghislaine has this favorite guessing game that she does. She goes to Prince Andrew, how old do you think Virginia is? And he said, 17. And she's like, oh, you're right.

And, you know, they, like, made a little joke about it. He's like, oh, my daughters aren't far from your age. You know, my daughter's a little bit younger than you. We went out for the night, club tramp in London. And he dances and he's profusely sweating over me and it was disgusting. She's talking about Prince Andrew, hooked up with Prince Andrew,

who she says had sex with her. Here she is, a minor. Andrew denies it, sweats buckets on TV, but then says she had to be lying about their encounter. I call it child rape because at that time he had an ailment where he couldn't sweat. That was actually his defense. I want to go to you, to Ashley Wilcott, judge and trial lawyer, Court TV anchor. Ashley, when you hear a statement that is so rich in detail, it gives credence to it. And the fact that she says Gillen Maxwell introduces her to Prince Andrew at this location. Then they go to Club Trampamp where he came on to her. Andrew sweated profusely and there turns up to be, although Andrew denies knowing her, a picture of

her with Andrew with his arm around her after Andrew says, I've never met her. The details that she described, Ashley, that Prince Andrew said, hey, you're about the age of my two daughters. That detail, to me, has the ring of truth. Absolutely. So first of all, I always believe a juvenile, a child, this is a child. Absolutely. Second of all, you're right. All of the specific details, when people lie, they don't make up all of those little specific details. How are they going to come up with something to say, oh, he's sweating profusely? And you're absolutely right. There is no reason I would question the veracity of what she is saying, meaning this other adult should have been charged by now, should be jail, in jail,

along with Jeffrey. Long story short, according to the source, Oxenberg, Ghislaine Maxwell brags to Prince Andrew's cousin, she recruited girls from trailer parks in Palm Beach to bring them to Jeffrey Epstein. Oxenberg says Maxwell told her, I look for what I know is Epstein's type and I bring them home. That she, Ghislaine Maxwell, was, quote, proud to be a recruiter for the pedophile during a meeting with Oxenberg, who was an author and a socialite,

who was brought in, I guess, to write Ghislaine Maxwell's memoir. Oxenberg claims that Maxwell was not dating Epstein, although she wanted to marry Epstein. Okay, I'm trying to make sense of it all, but I want you to hear our friend at Inside Edition, Stephen Fabian. Where is Jeffrey Epstein's former girlfriend? She's vanished following allegations that she recruited underage girls for Epstein's sex trafficking network. Ghislaine Maxwell, who has denied any wrongdoing, lived in this five-story townhouse on Manhattan's Tony East Side. It's less than a 10-minute walk from Epstein's palatial mansion, but she sold the home for $15 million after she got caught up in the Epstein case and moved to London. So where is she now?

Nobody knows, but she's believed to be somewhere in Europe. Maxwell was once at the pinnacle of the social scene in New York City. She was with Epstein, Donald Trump, and Melania at this party at Mar-a-Lago in 2000. That's her hovering in the background in this notorious video as Trump and Epstein crack each other up at another Mar-a-Lago bash. In 2014, she was spotted with entrepreneur Elon Musk

at the Vanity Fair Oscar party. My, she certainly gets around. And in the last weeks, it emerges that she allegedly had an affair with none other than Bill Clinton. crime stories with nancy grace from trump to clinton to musk this woman has money power privilege and connections she's reportedly somewhere in Europe. Well, that certainly does not narrow it down. We are talking about the high-priced pimp for pedophile Jeffrey Epstein, who up until this moment has not been charged or arrested for procuring underage girls for Epstein to rape. Take a listen to CBS News correspondent Holly Williams.

Ghislaine Maxwell grew up the daughter of a wealthy British media tycoon and studied at prestigious Oxford University before becoming a close associate of Jeffrey Epstein. Her current whereabouts are unknown. Documents unsealed on Friday contain allegations that Ghislaine Maxwell played a quote important role in Jeffrey Epstein's sexual abuse ring, directing an underage girl to have sex with Epstein and others. Maxwell strenuously denies those allegations. Jack Scarola is an attorney who's represented several alleged victims of Jeffrey Epstein. There are multiple victims who claim that Ghazane Maxwell was a personal participant in recruiting them for Jeffrey Epstein, and there are allegations that Ms. Maxwell was an active participant in the sexual abuse. To Joe Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, you teach forensics.

How can we prove that Ghislaine Maxwell was his pimp? Well, you know, just through the procurement process, if there is an electronic trail, perhaps a money trail that leads from her to these victims that's gonna be key here I think one of the big problems is and I've kind of witnessed this along following this it seems as though that they did most of these transactions financial transactions in cash okay so that's going to be much more difficult to track. Say for instance, if there was an electronic wire transfer or something like this. So the fact that they were giving these young girls cash, you know, he would leave cash behind, they were luring them in. But then we have videography, people being videotaped. You talked about that just a second

ago, just alluding to the party that was going on. But you also have this photographic evidence. Think about that photo with Virginia Roberts and Prince Andrew that kind of came to light. That's photographic imagery that's going on. And it has also been alleged, Nancy, that there is perhaps, perhaps videography evidence that was contained within his mansion in Manhattan. And this is a source of great mystery here. People say that maybe the police have this documentation, maybe perhaps the feds have it, or maybe it's still in the possession of Epstein's estate. But all of these could be tiebacks to Max. Nancy, if I could make a comment about that. Jump in.

Just to piggyback on what Joe Scott Morgan is saying, he's talking about the photographic evidence. And from a mental health perspective, people who have perversions, in particular pedophilia, they organize their whole life around the perversion. That's their whole reason for living so they cannot help but think about it talk about it obsess about it pass pictures around uh i bet glaine maxwell and jeffrey epstein every time they were at a party i bet all they were doing was talking about sex asking uh the fellow party goers if they had young men or women in their life, talking about underage girls. The confession will have come out of every pore of their body because that's all they ever had to think about. So I would think just interview anybody who was

around them and you're going to have all kinds of stories about their their uh perverse sexual exploits and nancy you know right before epstein was arrested in 2019 when they went to his upper east side apartment there were compact discs that were locked in a safe and there were photographs of law enforcement pulling them out. And on the disc, it would contain the name of a young girl and then the name of someone else. A lot of people have speculated that the names were powerful people in New York society, that he was actually using these tapes to blackmail them, and that that's how he made a lot of his fortune as well. Speaking of how Ghislaine Maxwell can be tracked down, I say through the money.

Where is she? Where's the money going? There's got to be financial transactions. If it's not a credit card, cash transfers, a way that she is getting money to live. I find it very difficult to believe somebody that lives her lifestyle can't be found. But as far as proving the previous recruiting of these young girls, I think that it would be very simple, actually, for a forensic accountant to go back in time and find out where was Gillen Maxwell on any given date. Was she based on her financial transactions in New York

where a young girl says, she got me out of the school playground out of Central Park and took me to meet Epstein. Was she in New York? What do airplane records, what do records at her home, her telephone records, her email show? Was she there? Where was she even that night? Can she be placed at parties where these young girls were with Epstein when they were molested? It's not that hard. It just takes time and energy and a

forensic investigation. And that's just what many of the victims are living through right now as they try to track Ghislaine Maxwell down to serve her with a lawsuit. Take a listen to CBS News correspondent Mola Lenge. On Wednesday, Epstein accuser Jennifer Arose filed a civil suit against Epstein's estate and his purported ex-girlfriend, Ghislaine Maxwell. Arose is also suing an alleged recruiter, a secretary and maid on Epstein's staff. Kimberly Lerner is one of Arose's attorneys. Was there anyone else who should be held accountable? There were various secretaries, there were housekeepers, and there was the recruiter.

We haven't been able to identify any of those people by name as of yet. The lawsuit claims a Rose was recruited when she was 14. She alleges the abuse began about a month after meeting Epstein when he showed her the massage room in his palatial New York City townhouse and told her it's my favorite room. According to the suit, their visits eventually became routine. A maid would put towels and lotions out, tell a rose to get changed in the bathroom, and leave her $300 in cash for each visit. About a year after the alleged abuse started, a rose claims Epstein forcibly raped her, and she never returned. How much are you seeking from Epstein's estate?

I don't even know what his entire estate is worth, but we're seeking significant damages. Did you just hear, Dr. Bethany Marshall, that a maid would set out towels and lotions for the sex assaults to occur on the young girls? You want to tell me that the people that worked in Epstein's home can't identify Gill and Maxwell in the home at the same time these young girls say that they were raped? Absolutely they can, Nancy. There are so many eyewitnesses. I keep thinking of Michael Jackson because there was a housekeeper there, too. She didn't necessarily procure children, but she saw everything and she did nothing. And we saw that with Harvey Weinstein. I know I seem a little preoccupied with these other stories, but the patterns are so similar.

There are always eyewitnesses. There are always people who have similar corruption of conscience, and they all band together. Nancy, I don't know. This seems similar to just groups of pedophiles who congregate together online and they pass pictures along and they egg each other on and they present victims and they give clues as to where to find victims. And it becomes the same social psychology as what we had in the Epstein household. So of course, this made something. But think about all the other people in that household. There are painters, there are art procurers, there are people who manicure the lawns, there are cooks, houseboys, butlers.

There are so many people coming in and out of that household to support this huge estate that there have to be dozens of people who knew what was going on. I want you to take a listen to CBS News correspondent Mola Lungy. But Licata says going through the courts won't make up for the abuse she suffered. A civil lawsuit then would not give me back what I lost. Licata tells us, at least for her, there is no way to get peace now that Epstein is dead. And we should note that both Licata and Arose say they never actually met Ghislaine Maxwell. And the three women are listed as Jane Doe's in the lawsuit because their identities are not yet known.

That's something attorneys say they hope to learn through the discovery phase of the civil case. And we should also note that Ghislaine Maxwell has never been charged with a crime and has denied any wrongdoing in the past. That's right. Let me be clear. Ghislaine Maxwell has not been charged with a crime. My question is, why? Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend.