Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Black Widow denied bond & Cops: Mom leaves tots to die in hot car as ‘punishment’

Episode Date: August 23, 2017

A Florida judge rules Dalia Dippolito must sit in prison while lawyers appeal her conviction for seeking a hit man to kill her husband. Her lawyer Brian Claypool debates the case with Nancy Grace and reporter Ninette Sosa. A Texas woman faces murder charges after her 2 young children died from the heat after she allegedly left them in a car for as punishment. Psychologist Dr. Daniel Bober and reporter Paul Chambers join Nancy to discuss this case. a husband allegedly tried to frame his wife by posting a Craig's List ad seeking a hit man to kill him and reporting to police that she did it. Reporter David Lohr talks about the case. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Go to ZipRecruiter.com slash Nancy Grace. ZipRecruiter. Thanks so much for being our partner. Crime stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph, channel 132. Dahlia DiBellito was just sentenced for trying to hire a hitman to kill her newlywed husband. A former escort now in shackles. This crime is so heinous and so deplorable. Dahlia on tape hiring a hitman to kill her husband. You know, he gets to it ahead.

That's it, you wanna do it? I'm positive, like, 5,000 percent sure. You were acting in those tapes? Yes. With police recording the whole thing, they pretended the hit worked, staging an elaborate crime scene and telling Dahlia her husband had died.

No, no, no, no! He's been killed, man. I'm sorry. No, no, he's not. Listen. No, no. Try to calm down. No, man. No, he's not. No, no. Try to calm down. No, no. Dahlia DiPolito, the beautiful bride out of Florida who finds her dream man, only to then be accused by police of hiring a hitman to kill him.

That's wedded bliss, I guess. Dahlia DiPolito has had not one, not two, but three jury trials at the taxpayer's expense, bringing in a hired gun all the way from California, who is joining us right now. It's Brian Claypool, our friend and colleague, our slippery friend and colleague in the courtroom, who has tried his best to save Dahlia DiPolito from claims she hired a hitman to kill her husband. Kind of hard to do when she's caught on video, not just video and audio, but witnesses too,

haggling with the hitman, who's really, of course, an undercover cop, saying that she's, what was it, 2,000, not just 100%, but mathematically impossibly 1,000 or 2,000% sure she wants him dead. Now, hold on, Brian, this is music to your ears, I'm sure, but let's hear Dahlia DiPolito, as she's told in an undercover sting, which I love, is also on video. I could watch it all day. I could just loop it and watch it when cops say, ma'am, your husband has been found dead. Listen to this. I'm Sergeant Ramsey. I'm the one that called you. Thank you for coming. I'm sorry to call you.

Listen, we had a report of a disturbance at your house and there were shots fired. Is your husband Michael? Okay, I'm sorry to tell you, ma'am, he's been killed. No, no, no, no. He's been killed, ma'am. No, no, no, no. Try to calm down. No, no, no, no. Listen, right now, we need to get you to the station. We need to get you to our police station. I wanna see him. I can't let you in, man. We have to do our job. If you want us to find this killer, okay? We need you to calm down. I'm going to need you to go with these detectives,

okay? Does he have enemies? Is there anyone that would want to hurt him? Okay, who would want to hurt him? Witnesses said they saw a black male running from him. I can't let you see him, ma'am. Ma'am, I cannot do this right now. Ma'am, I can't go. Detective Yope, I need you to take her to the station. I can't. Ma'am, go with these detectives. If you want to help your husband, okay? If you want to help your husband, you need to go to the station with these gentlemen. And tell us everything you know about who he knows, who he's connected to. Don't worry, we've already taken care of dogs with animal control for right now. Everything's under control and we'll take care of everything else, okay? Now, if you could only see her, she bends over in half and all the pain of learning

her husband is dead after she hires the hitman to kill him. Little does she know, the hitman ratted her out, and her husband is alive and well, waiting for her to get to the police station. Now, let me understand something. Joining me right now, Nanette Sosa, who is with NPR. Nanette, thank you for being with us. She's had three trials. What were the various defenses at trial?

In a nutshell, don't bog me down with all the legal technicalities. What were her defenses at trial, Nanette Sosa? One of the defenses was due to leniency because her attorney said that the detectives in Florida basically railroaded her. And also the other fact that he alleged and said that they were filming a cops episode so this was done for notoriety so those are a couple of things that were brought to hold on let me let me follow up on what nanette sosa is saying one defense was that the show cops you know bad boys bad boy what you gonna do? That show, it's incredibly popular. And it shows cops in real life making arrests and busts and tracking people down in high-speed chases.

So they were coming to town. One defense was, oh, the cops made the whole thing up as if they don't have enough crime. They made up this crime so they could get on cops. That was one defense. The second defense that I can recall is that, no, no, no, she wasn't really hiring a hitman. This was just a script that she wanted to be in a reality show,

and she was pitching this script as a reality show script, and she was acting, and those were her, quote, lines. Okay, Brian Claypool, who's actually won a lot of lot of cases guys defended Dahlia DiPolito at trial and just got a real blow because after her third conviction wait her third trial excuse me she asked the judge for a bond and was turned down wow can you imagine that the last time they let her have house arrest, where she could only go to church in her lawyer's office, she ended up pregnant. Don't know how that happened. But of course, the judge said no one on appeal bond. But what was

her defense the third time around, Brian Claypool? Well, Nancy, thanks for having me. Let's remind your audience, though, that in the second retrial, I obtained a hung jury. And in fact, five out of eight jurors, we had three to three, and then both alternate jurors were in our camp for an acquittal. So you... Alternate jurors don't mean a fig. That doesn't even matter what the alternate jurors thought. On a fair playing field, how is this such a slam dunk if I almost obtained an acquittal in the second trial?

What happened in the third... Right, almost. That's like almost ringing aal in the second trial. What happened in the third? Right, almost. That's like almost ringing a basket in a basketball game. Now, you said, what did you say, five to eight? No, five out of eight in the second trial. Five out of eight. Five out of eight. Now, are you including, how many jurors were there?

There were six jurors and two alternates. Oh, well, five out of eight. Okay, so let's talk about the actual jurors, the six. What was the vote amongst the six? Well, in the second trial, it was three to three. Oh! That doesn't really sound like a slam dunk to me. That sounds like it right down the middle. Right, so three to three. Right, but the whole world has portrayed this as such a slam dunk, just look at the videotape and let's send her to prison for the next 20, 30 years.

But that's not how it unfolded. Okay, should I believe you or my lying eyes because I saw the video about 100 times? But what most people are not aware of when they follow this case is that the first phone call made to the police department by this gentleman named Muhammad, who was the confidential informant, his first phone call to the police station was, this is a quote, I think this woman said either she's going to die or he's going to die, and that there were some allegations of domestic abuse. Our argument was, Nancy, in a nutshell, the police department didn't do anything to in a nutshell the police department didn't do anything to investigate the domestic abuse they didn't look into whether she was suicidal

they they simply is she a hooker pardon me because um apparently her husband hired a quote escort and it was her is that how they met no no no Nancy. They met at the same place. You and I, I've been waiting for our coffee day for years. You've spurned me about a dozen times. They met at the place I want to meet you for our first get-together, Starbucks, plain and simple. No escort involved.

I know that. And isn't it true, speaking of Starbucks, her husband says that she first tried to poison him with some Starbucks chai tea and that didn't work. I'm glad you brought up Starbucks. Well, thank you because I'm glad you brought up the chai tea latte because that is going to be the sole reason why this conviction will be reversed on appeal.

It was reversible error for the judge to allow the jury to hear about this this fantastic salacious allegation unfounded by the way about dahlia trying to to kill mike with uh with anti-freezing the chai tea latte well what about her on video hiring a hitman to to kill her husband and telling him where to go and what time to go so she wouldn't be there. And speaking of her being a hooker, if you didn't know that already, I advise you to read the Broward-Palm Beach New Times, where they actually go through text that she has sent lining up John's. Okay, go ahead. Well, the text messages really, in the third trial, Nancy, these text messages did nothing more than show that she was allegedly trying to have Mike charged with violating his probation.

And that she did have a romantic relationship with this other guy named Mike Stanley. What we argued was it doesn't prove that she was trying to kill Mike DiPolito because nothing in those text messages suggested that she had wanted to kill Mike DiPolito. But getting back to your other question about the videotape, our whole argument was that the undercover police officer was the one that was initiating all the phone calls. He was the one that was pushing this along. We're not denying what's on the tape, but Dahlia didn't pick up the phone, Nancy, and say, hey, hey, Mr. Undercover Guy. She didn't know he was undercover,

but hey, Mr. Hitman, can you meet me at Denny's tomorrow so we can set up a hit? She wasn't making the phone calls. The police were, and that's what we tried to impart to the jury. I just realized I was completely wrong, Brian Claypool. I'm going to have to admit I was completely wrong, Brian Claypool.

I'm going to have to admit I was wrong on the facts because she didn't say that she was 2,000% sure she wanted her husband dead on video. She said, quote, she tells the undercover cop on video, I'm 5,000% sure I want my husband dead. 5,000% sure. I thought you were going to say you were wrong on the facts about it being a caramel macchiato instead of a chai tea latte. Wow. You had to bring up the 5,000% sure. On camera. And that, long story short, she then gets taken to the jailhouse as part of the sting.

But see, she thinks she's going to police HQ because her husband's been found shot dead. So she gets there. And it's only later that she, well, the police station never says anything about, guys, this was just a script for a reality show. My husband was in on it. My friend was in on it. The CI, confidential informant, was in on it. She never said any of that. I mean, if I found myself under questioning at police headquarters on an attempted murder, I would complain right then and there. She never said a word. That was only cooked up in front of a jury. Now, let me go to forensic psychiatrist, Dr. Daniel Bober.

Dr. Bober, so many people, men mostly, have been taken in by Dahlia DiPolito. And I will say she is beautiful. Her body looks like a model. Let me just say she's a workout enthusiast. And she's very pretty in kind of an exotic way. Why is it that so many people keep falling for her stories? She changes her story every time you turn around. We see this a lot, Nancy.

We see this in Casey Anthony and Jodi Arias. People tend to find, for some reason, attractive women more credible. They don't want to believe that they're capable of evil acts the same way they do sort of people that are sort of normal, run-of-the-mill looking people. It's a form of luxism, and it is an interesting phenomenon. You see it in politics. You see it in all areas of life that people that are judged to be more attractive often get cut a break or they get special favors from people. Explain to me, Brian Claypool, why, after a conviction, she thought she should have a bond? Well, the reason why, Nancy, is because remember, in her first trial, she was convicted because she adopted this

reality show defense and after the conviction the judge in that case did allow Dahlia to be on house arrest wearing an ankle monitor so so she so she is that the judge that called her pure evil yeah that right exactly right so okay so so so our argument about it. I'm trying to answer your question. That fact alone was a platform for us to argue in our recent brief. There was a hearing about a week ago. We argued, wait a minute, why shouldn't she be granted bond pending appeal again? Because two reasons. The first judge allowed it, number one. Number two, she's been a model inmate, Nancy, for eight plus years.

She's not had a single infraction while on house arrest. One would think that if she was a flight risk, she would have tried to flee the country while she was on house arrest, as opposed to being in a concrete building trying to escape out of a maximum security prison. So those are the arguments we're making. There's no evidence of her being a flight risk. And, Nancy, do you remember, can I ask you why your client tried to convince her husband to put his townhouse in her name only just before the... Yeah, that's another misnomer that the public

doesn't know about. The real evidence at trial... I'm reading her text right now. The real evidence at trial. I'm reading her text right now. The real evidence at trial was that we produced an email. We produced, I cross-examined Mike DiPolito. I showed him an email between Dow to refresh his recollection. It was an email between Dow and Mike. No, it was between, it was an email that Mike had sent to the real estate agent where he had given his acquiescence

to having the condo or the townhouse refinanced. So that proved that Mike DeVolito was actually on board with refinancing the home and keeping it in Dolly's name. So there was no gun put to Mike's head. Well, what I'm reading are the texts that she sent to her lover. She is rejoicing in her text after persuading her soon-to-be dead husband to put their townhouse in her name only.

But yet in another text, she's complaining bitterly that when she learned she still couldn't sell it without his signature. You know what? It ain't over yet with Dahlia DiPolito. But Nanette Sosa, the bond that she had asked for was disallowed. What

happens now, Nanette? She's going to the big house, basically. She's just going to be in prison. She is hoping to be reunited, obviously, with her 16-month-old son, but that is not happening. It was a 24-page order that the judge gave, and the reason was, and I quote, to be clear, the court does not seek in any way to punish the defendant for having a child, but the fact was, and I quote, to be clear, the court does not seek in any way to punish the defendant for having a child. But the fact was, the judge said, escape with her child is a significant temptation and risk. And let me add also, Nancy, that there was a phone call that Dahlia made from jail to the father of the child, Robert Davis, who, by the way, lives with her mom and the child. And she was talking with him about this prison escape by a convict in South Carolina. And she was describing how everybody was pumped up, you know, when they heard about the breakout.

Now, you have her attorney there that he argued that she wouldn't, it just wasn't a smart call, basically. But, you know, it is a call that happens, but she would never think to make an escape. Brian Claypool, you've won so many cases. And I hate to bid adieu to you in this cold manner, but just to refresh your recollection using your words, take a listen to your client, Dahlia DiPolito. No. Try to calm down. No.

Listen, right now we need to get you to a station. No. We need to get you to a police station. Two toddlers are dead. Two toddlers, tots, die one of the most unimaginable deaths you can imagine. Burning, literally baking in scorching heat. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. I want justice. It's one thing to forget, as bad as that may be, to forget your child is in the car. It's one thing to forget, as bad as that may be, to forget your child is in the car. It's one thing to forget. But this mom, Cynthia Marie Randolph, Cindy, recounted to investigators a mother's nightmare. She had been folding laundry and watching TV while her son and daughter, ages 2 and 16 months, played in a sunroom on the back porch.

She went to check on them in half an hour, but they were gone. I'm using air quotas on that. Gone. She said after a half hour of searching, now we've got an hour gone by, tick-tock, tick-tock, she finally found their bodies, unresponsive, inside her Honda Crosstour parked in the driveway. It was hot, hot in Weatherford, Texas. It was 96 degrees outside the car. Sounds like a tragic mistake, right? No. We now learn that Monster Mom put the tots in the hot car to, quote,

teach them a lesson. Teach them a lesson. What? Joining me, Crime Stories contributor, investigative reporter, Paul Chambers. What happened? Nancy, 24-year-old Cynthia Randolph has had several stories that she told police since the incident happened on May 26th. Did you say, whoa, whoa, whoa, sorry, Paul. Did you say she has told several different stories?

Oh, you know, you couldn't have made me happier. Paul, Brian Claypool, defense attorney out of L.A., is with me. And special guest, Dr. Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist. Guys, please make a note of what Paul just said. Different stories. I'm making a note of it. Jackie, make a note. Alan, you have a cup of coffee. Go ahead.

Paul Chambers, back to you. All right. And her two children, two-year-old Juliet Ramirez and 16-month-old Kavanaugh Ramirez were the victims. And they were both inside the car outside her residence. The two-year-old apparently, according to her testimony for her interview with the Texas Rangers, the two-year-old refused to come out of the car. So she locked the two kids in the car, as you said, Nancy, to teach them a lesson. She went inside, according to her own. Right. Is this the two-year-old or the 16-year-old?

I mean, excuse me, the 16-month-old. They've got two tots in the car. Was it the 16-month-old or the two-year-old? This was the two-year-old that was giving the mother problems, and she refused to come out of the car. So the mother left them both in the car, went inside, and according to her interview with two to three hours, got up, started to look for the children, went out to the car, saw them lying unresponsive. Juliet, the two-year-old, was in the driver's seat. The toddler, the boy, Kavanaugh, was in the floorboard of the car. She took them out of the car, brought them into the kitchen, laid them out on a table. Then she went back out to the car, got her cell phone, which had run out of gas, and brought the cell phone inside, plugged it into a charger, called 911. The medics arrived.

It was too late. The paramedics declared that the kids were dead at the scene. Hold on. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I'm like drinking out of a fire hydrant. I can't take it all in. Hold on. It's coming fast and furious.

We are talking about what looks to be a soccer mom. She looks like one of those. Brian Claypool, you and Alan are living the life out in L.A., the Hollywood area. Alan, you know those Hadid, they're the new Kardashians, those Hadid sisters? This one right here that we're talking about that killed her children looks like one of the Hadid girls. She's all kind of like blonde-ish with perfectly done dark eyebrows. She looks like a Hadid model slash soccer mom. She's not going to look too good in leg irons.

I can tell you that, Claypool. So this woman, let me understand what you were just saying, Paul Chambers. So she's got a two-year-old Juliet, and she's got the 16-month-old little boy, Kavanaugh. You know, Mama, how much I'd love to have two more children, how much I would love to, how many people in this country would want to have these two little babies. So, you know, a lot of times on the way home to Dr. Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist joining me out of Florida. Dr. Bober, again, thank you for being with us. My pleasure. Dr. Bober, so many times when I pick up the children from school,

we'll be having such a good time in the car. We leave the minivan running, and we just sit in the car before we come in, and we keep talking, and we're eating snacks, and we're having a good time. I mean, the car, we have a good time in there. And the children love being in cars. With my little nephew, we would go sit in the car in my parents' garage

and we would pretend we were driving to Savannah where he was born. And he would, in my parents' car. And we would stay out in the car, in the garage for like two hours, quote, driving to Savannah. And he would be driving and I would be in the back seat. Okay. And just having children love the security, that feeling of being in the car and going somewhere. What happened to her? Why'd she have to get all bent up about them not wanting to get out of the car?

Well, you know, Nancy, you need a license to drive a car, but you don't need a license to be a parent. And over 36 kids die a year in hot cars. But this is something very different. I mean, this was clearly intentional. And it's, you know, it's just a shame that these kids who are completely helpless and defenseless had a mother like this who completely, you know, shirked her duties as a parent. It's horrible. Well, I think it's more than that, Dr. Bober.'ve noticed dr bober i'm not sure i this is just anecdotal but it seems to me i haven't done any statistical study on you dr daniel bober but it seems to me that every time it's a good-looking woman you kind of you said shirk her responsibilities because brian claypool defense attorney out of the la jurisdiction she didn't just shirk her responsibilities because Brian Claypool, defense attorney out of the L.A. jurisdiction, she didn't just shirk her responsibilities.

She actively, intentionally locked them in the car and left them. The little two-year-old girl, Juliet, even climbing up into her mom's driver's seat trying to get them out of the car. She had crawled up there trying to get out of the car, and they died of heat stroke. You know how awful that is, Brian Claypool, what your body goes through? A lot of people just claw, claw at themselves. They're so hot. They vomit. They defecate.

It's horrible. It's a horrible way to die. Nancy, you weren't suggesting that because she's an attractive woman that I'm representing Dahlia DiPolito, who's also an attractive woman. Was that just a slip, or you didn't mean that intentionally? I don't even know if that was even a question. Dahlia DiPolito is not attractive to me. She is a would-be killer. And when she gets out of jail, which she will, she'll probably kill somebody.

If I were you, I'd stay away from her. And whatever you do, don't drink anything she gives you, okay? Forget that Diet Coke, all right? But that's a whole other can of worms. I want to talk about her, who I also don't find attractive at all. Yeah, but she is very beautiful. But let's put aside the beauty in both these women. In fact, when I look at her, I just want to snap her little nose off her face.

I just want to twist it right off. But have you seen the pictures of her children? They're gorgeous. You know, but sadly, now they're in heaven, Claypool. Let me get you back in the middle of the road. This wasn't an accident that Bober was trying to talk about, the 36 children dying in a hot car every year. Uh-uh.

Mommy put them out there and left them locked in the car with the windows up this was clearly a different situation nancy this was obviously cold blooded and intentional uh but yes i agree with you it's more than her shirking her responsibilities she intentionally murdered them yeah i don't think i don't think it's i don't think it's so simple daniel bober's coming around so simple daniel and nancy uh in texas in order for her to be convicted of the first-degree felony, she has to, as you said, knowingly and intentionally done this. Now, if I'm representing her,

the defense you make is her mental state. If she... I think Alan had mentioned her having smoked marijuana before this occurred. Wade! Wade! Pot, Mary Jane. Yeah, but that's voluntary intoxication.

She chose to smoke pot, so that's voluntary intoxication. That's not some medicine a doctor gave her. She made the decision to smoke pot, number one. Number two, she said, I'm going to teach them a lesson. So clearly this was to punish them. No, that actually supports my argument. If she's saying, I want to punish them. Well, no, that actually supports my argument. If she's saying, I want to teach them a lesson, that means that she's had some ongoing issues with her children

that might have affected her mental state to a point where she snapped. So this wasn't an aberration. Wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Time out. Wait a minute. Have you ever heard of diminished capacity? Is that you?

Diminished capacity 101. No, I have not had diminished capacity. Not with my children, maybe with my husband. But wait a minute. Just because your child won't do what you tell it to do, when you say that she snapped, what she did was walk in the house, get high, and take a nap. Probably had a little snack. Nancy, have you ever heard of this self-defense?

Have you ever heard of this self defense did you ever have you ever heard of this self-defense it's called i'm too young to be a mom self-defense have you heard of that no and i wish you try that in front of a jury that's what's going on here this woman's overwhelmed i'm not making an excuse and and but let's be clear i'm not making an excuse for what happened. My job is... My mom had us at age 24. Is this first degree felony child... Endangerment? Murder, or is it... Or is it endangerment, thank you.

Or is it second degree? Second degree is where the mom doesn't intend to do it. My argument is she has diminished capacity, which negates for your audience. Why? But why, Brian? Because she's high on weed? The marijuana's not going to fly, Brian. She chose to be high on weed.

That's not what I'm saying. She's high on weed because she's having trouble. She can't handle being a parent of two young kids as a young woman. Okay, guys, hold on. Let me go back to Paul Chambers. Paul Chambers, I think we can exclude the mommy is a pothead defense. Number one, voluntary use of drugs or alcohol, as Daniel Bober has said, is not a defense. But more important than the law is the fact she made the decision, I'm going to teach

them a lesson and lock them in the car and went inside before she choked up. So the whole being high on pot thing happened after she made the conscious decision. So that would not serve as a defense under any legal framework. Isn't that the way the facts unfolded as we know them now, Paul Chambers? Well, according to that interview that she gave the Texas Rangers, she smoked marijuana after she made the decision to leave the kids in a locked car. So, yes, you're right. Paul Chambers, I want to get back to the different stories. You are intimately familiar with the facts.

What were this mom's different stories as her children literally baked dead in her car. Well, one of the versions that she allegedly told investigators is that the kids were playing. They got into the car and locked themselves in. And according to the prosecutor in Parker County, she broke out a window. She admitted to breaking a window into the Honda vehicle to get the kids out like it was a rescue. And she apparently admitted to the investigator that she intentionally broke the window to corroborate her own story. Man.

So that's one of the versions that she gave investigators initially. The one they're going with, the arrest warrant, of course, is the one that we've been talking about where she left them in the car and then went in and had pot. So, Alan, joining me out of L.A., Alan, it's about 96 outside the car and inside the car. I would assume it's about 101 to 105 degrees inside the car. Yeah, it heats up really, really quick. And if we're talking about Texas, I mean, it is hot there. And Texas in the summer is like hell. H-E double toothpicks.

Yeah, you're talking about a 20 degree increase in 10 minutes. Ooh, is that Dr. Bober? Yep, 20 degrees increase in 10 minutes. So then we're talking about 115 to 18 degrees inside the car. I mean, I don't even know. You know what, Dr. Bober, I should have asked you that to start with. You're a psychiatrist. This means you had to go to med school to start with.

What happens during a heat stroke? I mean, everything you said before. I mean, total dehydration, body temperature rises in children. Their physiology is different than adults. Their body temperature can increase three to five times faster than in an adult. So kids are particularly vulnerable to the effects of extreme temperatures. So it's really a horrific, awful death that a child experiences. You know, I really learned a lot about it, you know, from a lay person's point of view anyway,

not like you, a medical doctor, when we did baby Cooper's death, the dad, Justin Ross Harris was convicted of murder one by leaving, intentionally leaving baby Cooper in the car so he could be with other women and live a single life. That's when I learned what I do know about heat stroke. What brings on a heat stroke? Because a friend of ours, boss, had been out playing tennis, came in, she took a shower and had a heat stroke in the shower. That was several years ago. And she's still, I think, paralyzed on one side of her body.

Right. So she experienced permanent neurological injury from her body heating up and lack of oxygen to the brain, which can happen. Your body has several mechanisms to regulate temperature, including vasodilation and sweating, which is, but once those mechanisms become overwhelmed, then your body temperature increases. There are several irreversible injuries that occur due to the excessive. Okay. So not only that, Brian Claypool, hold on, Paul Chambers wants in. Paul, what are the charges right now and where is she? Well, she's been in the Parker County Jail since June. The incident occurred May 26th. The grand jury indictment came last week, and the medical examiner made their ruling earlier this month that the deaths were homicides.

And that the so she is remains on in jail on first degree felony injury to a child charges. And there is a bond set of $200,000 in each case. She has a public defender, according to reports. And so she's just doing time right now in the Parker County Jail. I'm now getting reports right now the temperatures went up to around 100 degrees that day. And according to Dr. Bober, in the car it would have been 120 degrees. Washington Township, Pennsylvania. A woman places a Craigslist ad for a hitman.

A hitman. And you think you're not going to get caught posting it on craigslist let me go out to our special guest joining us right now senior crime reporter at huff post you know him well everybody reads up post david lord thank you for being with us sadly there's never a lack of business would you agree at least with that never a lack of business that's certainly true nancy what did the ad say well the ad said, you know, I'm scared to death of this man. I moved on with my life and, you know, he's been threatening me, causing me problems. And she was asking for someone if they could beat the crap out of him

or possibly kill him. Whoa. Now, how common is something like that to pop up on Craigslist? You know, in the 20 some years I've been doing this, I can't think of anyone using Craigslist for a hitman such as this. You know, Craigslist has been in the middle of a lot of crimes and a lot of murders and a lot of setups, armed robberies, carjackings. For instance, placing an ad for a car to sell a car on Craigslist. The person shows up, they get carjacked, they get shot, they get robbed. I've reported on several of those and more. I mean, of course, there's the Craigslist killer. We all know about that one. But this one, very, very unusual because what happened is the woman

actually is so brazen. She places an ad for a hitman. It's there in Washington Township where this wife goes on Craigslist to find a hitman. Let's talk about what really happened. Who was actually behind the Craigslist advertisement, David Lohr? Well, according to police, it was the estranged husband, 30 year old christian coach uh is who they've identified and he actually uh was the individual who went to police to complain about the ad in the first place whoa wait what now so wait are you telling me that he places the ad posing as his estranged wife to kill himself and then he walks in the police station complaining that his wife's trying to have him killed? What an idiot.

Oh, yeah, that's exactly what he did, Nancy. Okay, wait a minute. So he goes in the police station and complains, look at this Craigslist ad. So he's trying to frame her with police, get her put in jail. Huh. So how do police figure out she didn't place the Craigslist ad? Well, from the onset, it did kind of point at her because the authority said it was in fact her email address that was used. And the post was created in the Waynesboro area. So what they did

is they went to talk to her. They said she just totally flipped out, started crying, said she couldn't believe he would do this to her. And so as police dug into it a little more, they found out that, you know, in order to post a message to Craigslist, you have to get a text verification. Well, he screwed up when he used his own cell phone number to do that text verification. Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold on. Hold on. What are you saying about a text verification? How did he screw up? Well, when you post an ad to Craigslist, they ask you for a cell phone number where they can send you a text message and then you would write in a confirmation code.

And this is how they try to do away with a lot of the scammers and spamming that happens on the website. And he had used his cell phone to send that verification. Okay, I've never placed a Craigslist ad yet or hired a hitman to kill my husband yet. So this is all Greek to me. So you're saying when you place a Craigslist ad, they verify it back to you? Is that what you're saying? Yes, correct. You have to give them a cell phone number.

And you know, the ad wasn't just asking someone to do them a favor. It was also saying that the individual who did this could be entitled to insurance money. What? What kind of insurance money are we talking about? I didn't know the insurance money aspect. Yeah. You know, obviously, you know, if there was life insurance, I assume on this gentleman, that's what they were going to give to the person who was to commit the crime. And, you know, obviously, we know at this point that he did that himself,

but this was just his way of adding another level to it to try to show that his wife had done it. A whole new level to show his wife had done it. So then, armed with all of this, they go and they confront the woman there in the little township. She nuts up. So what leads them to investigate and figure out that it's not her? What was her demeanor?

She acted genuinely innocent. I mean, what made them suspect it wasn't for real? Well, you know, you have to keep in mind, too, that this guy has a prior criminal record. So this, you know, she's apparently had issues with him in the past to the point where she's taken her kids and placed them somewhere else is what she had told police. Okay, that's pretty persuasive for me. That is very persuasive for me. So here you've got him with a criminal record and her, I assume, pure as the driven snow.

And she's actually had to, are you saying take the children and hide them? Is that what you're saying? That's what she told police. Whoa. So the whole thing starts out as a, from what I understand, a domestic violence incident. Wasn't he already on probation, as you're saying, for domestic violence? He was on probation for an assault. The court documents I've seen don't go into how he obtained that charge. But what we know is an assault.

So he's already on probation. And then he marches in and complains his wife's trying to kill him. Okay, so there are children involved. That's another fact I didn't know. So here's the guy who creates a Craigslist ad for his own murder, all in an attempt to frame his estranged wife. Now I understand why they're estranged. I get it. I mean, if we, and you and I, David Lohr,

senior crime reporter with HuffPost, are sitting here talking about it, and we're a thousand miles away from this guy, no telling what this woman has endured in her marriage and has actually given birth to this guy's kids. So what do we know about him other than he has a criminal history? That's kind of not surprising me, David Lohr. Well, we know he's only 30. He's only 30. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Okay, go ahead. What else do we know about this guy? You know, we know there's been some sort of a history of troubled relationship between he and his wife. And certainly putting perfume on the pig, a troubled relationship. To to me that sounds like you forgot to buy an anniversary card this is a lot more david lore are you married uh yes nancy okay well i would say troubled relationship you know means you may have a spat here and there i think this goes way beyond a trouble relationship david lore hey i'm gonna go check craigslist to see there's a hit out on david lore on craigslist so a troubled relationship as you so euphemistically refer to it go ahead what else do we know like i said we know they

had a troubled relationship and one of the things he complained to police about was that they never listen to him they never take his side and you know and so that's what prompted him to take this action never listen to me yeah and he's not talking to his family. He's talking to police. You never listen to me. Listen to this. David Lohr, HuffPost. So he marches into the police station with, as you told us, a picture of the ad that he so conveniently provided for them. But he also says a friend told him there's a price on his head. Yeah, correct. He makes up a friend his imaginary friend

who tells him about the ad for a hitman okay so could they confirm the the pretend friend the pretend friend is uh not referenced in the court documents so i i think it's unlikely that he exists david i think we need a shrink on this and one won't work. We need a whole team from Vienna because the ad is written from a woman's perspective. Yeah. It talks about needing someone to, quote, do a job about her marriage, makes other allegations about him, quote, I'm scared to death of this man and I've already moved on and dot, dot someone else what i'm looking for is someone to either beat the complete crap out of my husband we're separated hint hint i'm single or kill him the ad further states if the man died the writer would use an insurance policy to pay the hitman the alleged author claims not only was this request for her own well-being, but for the safety of her children.

Oh, she's so noble. Oh, it's not even her. It's him. And it ends with the writer giving a phone number to call and the best time to contact the wife. He gives his wife's phone number. So then I guess David Lord from HuffPost, the police then try to get info about the ad from Craigslist. And that's the info that showed the email address used to create the ad was the wife's email. Yeah.

So he actually hacks into her email to do this? It appears so, Nancy. They said it was made using her email address. And, you know, he went so far as when he told police about this, he said, quote, I'm wrecked. And I know that she's going to blame this entire thing on me. Talk about a confession. I'm wrecked. She's going to blame this on me.

Why did he even go to police? But I guess that was part of his scheme, but he needs to also be charged with hacking into her computer. Freak. Do we know if this had anything to do with custody of the children or is he just angry she finally left him and lady i don't blame you yeah so is he is he was he ever charged with actually hacking in because the investigating the the post-it ad from a technical angle police also spoke with him and her about it and he said at that time he wasn't sure his

wife had really done it or if she had somebody else do it his plot is thickening it's now turned into a big conspiracy so bottom line was this guy looking at oh yeah the phone number provided by the person who created the ad was different as you reported, David Lohr. It turns out to be his cell phone. Okay, when cops meet with Colch and show him the IP address and phone number, it turns out it's his, not hers. At first, he seemed to be nodding as if he understood, but he didn't say anything. He just kind of stood there dumbfounded. Long story short, he says, I did it for protection from the police in the DA's office. What is he talking about, David? From what I gather, he has a bit of a criminal record

leading up to this. And he'd actually supposedly filed a lawsuit against law enforcement. So I think he was trying to say he feels like he's always the bad guy, you know, and for once he wanted to be the good guy, even if it meant him fabricating a crime to do so. This guy just got 23 months for this to run concurrent, or at the same time, is his probation revocation. On 23 months, he might maybe do two or three months. I'm talking eight to 12 weeks behind bars. Man, I got to tell you, I can't believe that.

Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.