Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - 'Black Widow' murders husband, then targets, kills her 'lookalike' to assume her identity! On the run now!

Episode Date: April 18, 2018

A nationwide hunt is on for a woman who allegedly killed a woman who looked like her to steal her identity so she could hide while on the run for murdering her husband. Lois Riess, 56, is now believed to be in Texas. Nancy Grace follows Lois Riess's deadly trail in this episode with forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan, psychologist Caryn Stark, lawyer Mickey Sherman, and Crime Stories contributing reporter John Lemley. Also, Grace talks with private investigator Vincent Hill and reporter Art Harris about the Tex McIver murder trial as the jury deliberates.  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph, Channel 132. How in the hay is a nearly 60-year-old woman accused of murdering her husband and her doppelganger, her bottle blonde lookalike? How in the world is this happening? Right now, a multi-state manhunt goes on for a woman accused of murdering her husband and a complete female stranger. As just in, as we go to air right now, brand new closed circuit TV footage showing the alleged killer chatting up victim number two, laying on the charm. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories, and this is what we know. Lois Reese spotted perched up on a bar stool reeling in her second murder victim, according to police.

With me, an all-star lineup. Joe Scott Morgan, forensics expert, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University. John Limley, Crime Stories investigative reporter. Mickey Sherman, renowned defense attorney in multiple jurisdictions and author of How Can You Defend Those People? Let that soak in. And veteran New York psychologist joining me from Manhattan, Karen Stark. Straight out to you, John Limley. Let's start at the beginning.

Yes. Okay. I know this woman is on the run. I believe she's. Whoa the beginning. Yes. Okay. I know this woman is on the run. I believe she's. Whoa. Check it out. That's a million dollar smile she's got going on in that bar up on the bar stool. Uh-huh.

She looks like a cover girl. And I'm not kidding. She's got the bleach blonde hair down past her shoulders. Perfect makeup. I think that's my shade of lipstick this chick's wearing. And she's got a beautiful smile. And her eyes are laser focused on the woman sitting next to her at the bar, who is now dead, Pamela Hutchinson. Okay, start at the beginning. Let's start with what happened to the husband.

Yes, victim number one, Nancy, Lois's husband, David Reese. He grew up in Rochester, Minnesota. He served in the U.S. Navy, and after that, he came back to his hometown. He opened a bait shop, a store for fishing supplies. Now, this business must have inspired him to go from being a retailer to being a supplier because he sold that bait shop and began a commercial worm farm. The new venture, I think, had a great name, the Prairie Wax Worm Farm. Okay, wait a minute. Back it up just a moment. Just a moment.

I took one sip of my tea and the next thing I heard was Prairie Wax Worm Farm. I thought that might catch your attention. Prairie Wax Worm Farm. Okay, Mickey Sherman, I don't guess you've ever had that pop up in a case, have you? Prairie Wax Worm Farm. Okay, Mickey Sherman, I don't guess you've ever had that pop up in a case, have you? Prairie Wax Worm Farm. I think the young lady who's the suspect here is probably an outgrowth of the malfunction of one of the worms. Because she is no good looking. Okay, Mickey, I'll let you hold that defense for just one moment.

So, Limley, what did you say about a worm farm? Yes, I thought you might wonder what in the world was a wax worm farm. Well, I did a little research. I won't bore you with all the ins and outs of the. Oh, I'm not bored at all. I heard the two words worm farm. I'm all ears. Okay, because my grandfather on my dad's side, of course, everybody had a farm, worked the farm. He had an area where he would put old food and corn husking and all that to grow worms.

So I'm just extrapolating and guessing. Go ahead. Yeah, I did a little research, discovered that waxworms are the caterpillar form of a wax moth. I have to admit, I fell down the rabbit hole investigating the life and times of the waxworm. Well, you're taking us all with you. Please stop. What's a worm farm? I'll spare you all that. Anyway, David's new worm farm was outside. You know, you keep saying, I'll spare you, I'll spare you. Then you keep talking. I know.

Just tell me what's a worm farm for Pete's sake. I'm trying to get to a double homicide. Now you know what my family has to put up with. This new farm outside the tiny town of Blooming Prairie, Minnesota, about 85 miles south of the Twin Cities. Well, David had a couple of partners in this business, and one of them became really concerned after not seeing David for a whole two weeks, hadn't heard from him either. He finally just decides enough. He calls the Dodge County authorities to check in on him to conduct a welfare check. Deputies went to the farm on Highway 218 just outside Blooming Prairie, and they found David, but not in the condition that any friends or family might have hoped for.

He was dead and had been for some time. He had been shot at some point several times. OK, that gives a whole new meaning to worm farm. Okay. Guys, we have been joking around about this guy and the wax worm farm he and his partner had developed. Just FYI, that's a pretty big enterprise in a lot of areas of our country. For you city slickers that don't know about a worm farm. Long story short short forget about that i'm looking at this photo right now david reese found shot dead after one of his business

partners calls the police to say he hadn't shown up for work for two weeks well you know there's such a thing mickey sherman as i was just discussing this, well, actually fighting with Dan Abrams on our A&E program, Grace vs. Abrams, about alibi by routine, Mick. And you've tried so many cases, you know what that is. It's when, for instance, if Jackie Howard or Alan Duke didn't start calling me and texting me at about 5.30 in the morning, I would know something was way off and i'd call 9-1-1 okay because we're all putting the our serious radio program together first thing every day if she didn't walk through the door at the prescribed time i i would start worrying i would know something was very very wrong mickey al Alibi by routine is when a defense uses the normal routine.

I get up at 6. I do this. I have my tea. I get in my car. I commute 30 minutes. I clock in at this time. You have a routine, okay? That's your alibi, right?

Here, the coworker knew something was horribly wrong because his partner did not show up to work. Right, Mick? Well, did not show up to work. Right, Mick? Well, it gets you up to bat. There's no question about it. But it doesn't drive you home. That's the problem. It alerts the police and the other investigators that maybe there's some problems here because of the routine departure. But it doesn't seal the case.

I mean, maybe he just got tired of working with worms. Yeah, you know what, Mickey? You're right. I like the way you put that. You said, now, what did you say? You knock something, but it's not a home run. What did you say? I said, it gets you up to bat, but it doesn't bring you home.

Okay, I'm totally writing that down and stealing it from now on. It's mine. You never said it. Now, you say it gets you up to bat, it doesn't get you home that's a good one mickey sherman i can see that on a t-shirt right now dan just called and told me to use it oh okay so we're talking about david reese and he is found shot dead okay uh course, as usual, you you look at gunshot wounds and determine if it's suicide, accident, or homicide? In a nutshell, don't go DEFCON 4 on me. I'll try to restrain myself, Nancy. In cases where we're trying to determine if it is in fact a suicide versus a homicide, an example,

a suicide gunshot wound would be something that we would find consistent, say for instance, placed to the side of the head, tightly pressed, as opposed to a homicide, which is many times fired at some distance, you rarely get press contact with homicides. So we would want to know, was the individual shot in the back of the head, which might be consistent with a homicide as opposed to being shot inside? Well, either that or he's a contortionist. Go ahead, get shot in the back of the head. Yeah, you're absolutely right. But there have been cases where that has taken place. So we have to consider all possibilities. And our working model is that we assume all deaths are homicide until we can prove otherwise.

And in this case, I hope that the police will know. I like your positive outlook. You've got to be positive. You've got to find every beam of little sunshine in the dark clouds. Well, another tip-off, of course, is there are multiple gunshots. You know, you're shot in the chest, you're shot in the arm, you're shot in the dark clouds well another tip off of course is when there are multiple gunshots you know you're shot in the chest you're shot in the arm you're shot in the head that's not a suicide all right now we don't know all the details surrounding the husband david reese's shooting death but we know this we know the cops immediately hone in on her john limley

crime stories investigative reporter what happens then? They find the husband dead. Right. The next turn in the case was that someone else was missing from the Reese household, and that was his wife. Lois is missing, and so is a good bit of David's money. Figures range between $11,000, maybe over $20,000. It's not long before Lois is charged with theft in connection with several suspicious withdrawals from David's bank account. Well, wait a minute. Is that one of them an $11,000 check forged on his business account? I mean, a bank should have a surveillance of that, at least of that. She had transferred money from David's business account into his personal account and then forged her husband's handwriting on at least three checks, all made out to herself. Well, that's leaving a trail a mile wide.

And what about where it is? OK, his car is missing. Money is getting siphoned out of his account. There's a forged check on his business account. And then does she pop up at an Iowa casino, John Limley? It's not long before a tip comes in, one that leads them to the Diamond Joe Casino, just off Interstate 35, just across the border in Northwood, Iowa. Now, for close friends and family of the Reeses, this actually would make perfect sense if not for

the situation. Lois had a problem, a major gambling addiction. She loved gambling. Of course, the thing that didn't make sense is why Lois would be playing the slots. At the same time, her husband is missing and had been found murdered. It turns out Lois had been at that casino, but unfortunately for authorities, by the time they get there, she's long gone. Investigators were back to square one in search for Lois. Hold on, John Limley. You got me drinking from the fire hydrant. Too much, too fast. I can't take it all in. Karen Stark with me. We're now New

York psychologist Karen. She's got one husband dead at the worm farm, all right? Longtime husband, and now she's gambling at the casino. Karen, what is that state of mind? You leave your husband shot multiple times, dead on the worm farm back home, and she's in Iowa running through all that money. She might as well take out a billboard on 3rd Avenue that says, look at me, I killed my husband, here I am at the slot machines in Iowa, come and get me. Well, and what it also says is, look at me. I killed my husband and I don't care. I'm having a good old time using the slot machines because I don't have a conscience. And that's what's happening with this woman. That's so typical of a sociopath. They have no feelings. So they could commit a crime and then go off, take the money,

and have a wonderful time playing slot machine. You know, it's so odd. Mickey Sherman, you and I have seen it all. Let me knock on wood on that one because just every time I say we've seen it all, then something tops it. But, Mickey, this frame of mind, if you and I had committed a crime, had committed a murder, we would be ducking and diving. We would be using only cash. We'd go all Jodi Arias and get our gas and cans in the trunk so we wouldn't have a receipt anywhere.

We'd be hiding out, paying cash at a hotel six, staying totally under the radar until we hit Mexico, right? But maybe we've... I don't know. You got to speak for yourself on that one. Oh, okay. So... I would be at the high level slot. Oh, okay. That's right. The high level, the 25 cent slots. So Mickey, this woman is brazen. Really? that's what she is, brazen. Well, that's generally the nature of someone who kills other people. So, I mean, the psychologist will have a field day with her. But the fact that she's done this dastardly deed and then goes to a casino, I don't think that's out of the realm of normality for somebody who has no conscience. You know, You've actually

hit on something, and I don't really know how to verbalize it, but you're right. People that we kill so brazenly are not thinking the way you and I think, Mick. I mean, I'm not saying she's insane, because she's leading a nationwide manhunt right

now. She's eluding everybody. So she's no idiot idiot she's crazy like a fox but that mentality is something that i i can't understand so this is what we know a real live female human black widow is suspected in the death of her husband shot multiple times she apparently steals his car siphons all his money, and is spotted at the Iowa slot. So, John Limley, it's my understanding she goes on basically a tour of the Gulf states. Explain. Yeah, she starts heading south.

And from reports, she visits other casinos along the way. She has a long trip ahead of her. We don't know if she had in her mind her destination or if she just hit the road, the interstate, and started heading south. But eventually, she ends up in Florida, in Fort Myers. Fort Myers, the only thing that I would have, I would imagine Orlando, because all roads in crime seem to lead to Orlando. I think it's because of the giant influx of tourists and people, awesome weather, it's beautiful there. But something about Florida in general attracts people from all over the country. And she, Lois Ann Reese, we know for a fact ends up in Florida and specifically at a bar. And there's no way you can tell me that she did not hone in on this woman because she the killer the alleged killer believes this woman

Hutchinson was her doppelganger her look-alike and when you put them Jackie look at this look at their faces side by side now the alleged killer Reese Lois and Reese has her hair long and pull back in a bun in that photo and Hutchinson has her short bouncy but you pull the hair back and change the hair color that's totally a lookalike so she goes from casino to casino and pops up there in Fort Myers, Florida, on a barstool at the Smokin' Oyster Brewery in Fort Myers Beach. This is still four days before Hutchinson is found dead. Describe what you see on the video, John Lindley. She's caught on closed-circuit TV. True. It's a short,

relatively short clip. And you can see Lois, she is facing that surveillance camera. She pulls her glasses back on her head. She really seems to be, as you mentioned, turning on the charm. She is in her element, seems to be holding court. And you can see the back of the head of this doppelganger, this supposed twin of sorts. Pam. Pam Hutchinson. Pam Hutchinson, right. You can see the back of her head. She's wearing a red and white cap they seem to be having a really good time they're laughing and drinking and i see a cell phone sitting out beside her but i think it's belonging to a man who's sitting on her other side and he and the alleged black widow are sitting back to back they're at two barstools and each one is turned away from the other, like two bookends. Now, Lois Ann Reese is wearing a pair of very pale khakis, a pale bluish-purple tank top, short sleeve, you know, pullover.

She's got her hair super platinum blonde. It looks like it's just been blown out it's down below her shoulders she has on white sunglasses like she's wearing them like a headband with her hair back and during the conversation pulls them off she's drinking out of a tall red glass the her intended victim Pamela Hutchinson is also drinking something and they're engaged in conversation throughout the whole video and when you look at it you see Lois Ann Rice have you ever seen one of those um wildlife video movies or documentaries Joe Scott Morgan where you see all the antelope drinking calmly or the gazelles at the pool of water on the Serengeti.

And in the distance, you don't really see it much. But then when you do see it, you see the predator. Let's just say a lion. Sneak up and its eyes are razor locked on one of the gazelle. Yeah. It never takes its eyes off. It's just got to look. It's almost as if you dropped a brick on its head, it would not look away from its target. That's the way she's looking at Pam Hutchinson. She never takes her eyes off. Never does. And the

thing about a lot of those gazelles is that they'll alert. This woman never alerted to it. She never saw it coming. And that's what makes this particularly scary. Nancy, this lady that is perpetrating this is very charming, very disarming. And who would, you know, who would think that there's, there's pure evil, you know, uh, in what this woman was about to do. She's engaging this woman. They're just having a nice conversation. Looks like they're, uh, just yucking it up and they're laughing. They're just having a nice conversation. Looks like they're just yucking it up. They're laughing. They're having a good old time.

Yes, they are. But not for long, Joe Scott. Not for long at all. This ends in tragedy. Because Pam Hutchinson is found dead in her Florida condo. Her purse was found in disarray. All cash, credit cards, and most important, ID removed. The Lee County Undersheriff, Carmine Marcino, adds,

investigation reveals Ms. Hutchinson was targeted due to similarities in their appearances. And he's right. Police now fear that after murdering her husband, Lois Ann Reese, Black Widow, goes on the run, IDs a doppelganger in Smokin' Oyster Brewery, kills her, murders her, so she could impersonate her and assume her identity. Take a listen to this. On April 9, 2018, the Lee County Sheriff's Office responded to a medical assistance call at 645 Old San Carlos Boulevard in Fort Myers Beach. Upon arrival, deputies encountered a deceased 59-year-old female, later identified as Pamela Hutchinson, who was found to have suffered fatal gunshot wounds the medical examiner determined that miss Hutchinson was the victim of a homicide the Lee County Sheriff's Office major crimes unit responded and assumed the investigation miss Hutchinson's purse was found to be in disarray and all cash credit cards and identification appeared to be in disarray and all cash, credit cards, and identification appeared to be removed.

Additionally, the decedent's car keys, vehicle, a white Acura TL with a Florida tag of Y37TAA were determined to be missing. Further investigation revealed that Ms. Hutchinson was targeted by the suspect due to the similarities in their appearance. Investigation concluded that Reese is currently a person of interest in a recent homicide that took place in Dodge County, Minnesota. Our Major Crimes Unit has worked around the clock and has obtained an arrest warrant for Reese, a white female with a date of birth of February 28, 1962. Our detectives have reviewed hundreds of hours of February 28th, 1962. Our detectives have reviewed hundreds of hours of video and traveled throughout the state and

collected hundreds of items for forensic examination and have coordinated efforts with our state and federal agencies. It has been determined that Reese has fled Southwest Florida and has traveled through the Gulf states and into Corpus Christi, Texas area and current whereabouts are unknown. Reese is wanted for murder, grand theft of a motor vehicle, and grand theft and criminal use of personal identification. Reese's mode of operation is to befriend women who resemble her and steal their identity. U.S. Marshals are actively involved in a national search for this dangerous fugitive. Reese is considered armed and dangerous and should not be approached if located. The Lee County Sheriff's Office is asking both the local and

national media as well as the public to share Reese's information and to contact Southwest Florida Crime Stoppers at 1-800-780-TIPS if you have any information on Reese's whereabouts. You were listening to the Lee County, Florida undersheriff laying out what they believe happened. So John, what can you tell me about the second victim? She looks so perky and bubbly in all of her photos. I'm talking about Pam Hutchinson. Right. We may think that they look a lot alike from photos, but personality-wise, they really couldn't be more different. As you know, you can learn a lot about a person from their Facebook page, and that's definitely the case with Pam Hutchinson. She was from Bradenton,

Florida. As you scroll down her Facebook page, you see she's pretty, vibrant. She's funny. Some great posts on her Facebook page. She loves the beach, dancing, pretty dresses. Friends and family from their comments obviously adore her. After allegedly killing her doppelganger, her twin, Pam Hutchinson, we believe Loisanne Reese took off in the woman's white Acura TL, Florida license plate, Y yellow 3-7T toy, A alpha, A alpha, Y3-7TAA, abandoning her own 2004 white Cadillac Escalade at a Florida park. Now, from there, she's in the woman's car, which is a white Acura TL Florida license plate Y37TAA. From there,

where does she go, John Lindley? The last word we have from authorities is when they report that she has been spotted in Corpus Christi, Texas, some 1,300 miles away. And as you know, Nancy, Corpus Christi, Texas, not that far from the Mexican border. This is what cops are saying. Quote, she could be anywhere at this time. Our suspect loves to gamble. She loves casinos. She could be anywhere. She is armed. She is dangerous. She looks like anybody's mother. She smiles, but she's calculated, and she is a killer

on the loose. Whoa. Okay, Karen Stark, help me reconcile this gregarious, charming, bottle blonde with a beautiful white smile, sitting at a barstool, chatting up everybody around her with a laser lock on her next murder victim. She's, you know, just a very short way from the Mexican border, last spot at Corpus Christi, Texas. What's so frightening about encountering a person like this is that she can come across as your very best friend, the most charming, gregarious. You want to know her. She's got her sunglasses on and off and making eye contact with you. And the last thing that anyone would ever suspect is the whole time she's plotting to kill you.

That's what's so deceiving about someone who's a sociopath who's capable of murder is that they can really come off as quite charming. And you would never believe that this is about to happen. Who would ever think, oh, I'm meeting this new person. Isn't she great? Oh, and by the way, I bet it'd be very careful because she's going to assume my identity and kill me. Whoa. You know, another thing, Mickey Sherman, I know you're probably going to argue it's all, quote, circumstantial evidence, which it is. FYI, circumstantial evidence under the law is to be considered on equal footing with direct

evidence such as a confession dna or fingerprint but mickey sherman i know you're going to argue well we don't know she killed her look-alike her twin pam hutchinson but i'm looking at surveillance video of her, the black widow, Lois Ann Reese, right now, and she is spotted at Hutchinson's condo just before her dead body's found. So she's on video with her at the barstool at Smokin' Oyster Brewery in Fort Myers. She's also spotted at Pam's condo, and Pam ends up dead. What about that, Mick? Well, it is circumstantial evidence, and I'll be the first to concede that circumstantial evidence is often better than eyewitness or confessions or what else.

And most people feel, however, that if it's circumstantial, it's not worth anything. And those of us who try cases know that that's not the case. The bottom line is they still need something to drive this home. Randall, she may have picked up this woman at the oyster bar, but they still need something to build the bridge between being spotted. Oh, oh, oh, I've got something. I've got something for you, Mickey.

You got it. Oh, you're going to hate this. The gun. something for you mickey you got it oh you're gonna hate this the gun the weapon used to kill the husband is the same weapon used to kill pam hutchinson they both died with the same gun everybody you know how that works a gun when it is made has an individual marking inside the barrel where the metal dries it's like a fingerprint as a bullet hurtles down the barrel where the metal dries. It's like a fingerprint. As a bullet hurtles down the barrel, it is struck with high velocity against the inside of the barrel, leaving striations or markings on the bullet that only one gun in the world can leave. So when you can match up those

bullets taken out of the victim's body under a microscope, you can see it's very plain when you can match up those bullets taken out of the victim's body under a microscope, you can see. It's very plain when you look at it, Joe Scott. It sounds like high science, but Joseph Scott Morgan, it's very plain to see under a microscope. Yeah, Nancy, it's a ballistic fingerprint, and it is unique to that particular weapon, being that this is apparently, at this point in time, the same weapon that she used relative to her husband. We can take those rounds and tie those back. Let's also keep in mind that since she's crossed state lines at this point in time, the FBI, the U.S. Marshals, they're going to bring their full force. So their laboratories are going to be involved in this and collecting this information and comparing these rounds, as it were. This isn't just at a state level now. And so they're going to bring their full force of their forensic abilities to this case and matching this up.

And this is pattern evidence, Nancy, stuff that comes along as a result of her continued behavior. I think that one other thing we need to consider is, is she going to do this again? And that's the frightening part of this. But if she's using the same weapon, we will have connectivity all the way through this from Minnesota to Florida and then wherever she winds up. Hopefully no one else will get hurt. Right now, a nationwide search underway for a Minnesota woman accused of murdering her husband. And now her lookalike, Lois Reese of Blooming Prairie, Minnesota, believed to have murdered her husband, David Reese, authorities now believe Reese flees Minnesota and travels to Florida, where we believe she murders her lookalike, Pamela Hutchinson, after video emerges of Reese smiling and chatting up Hutchinson at the Smokin' Oyster Brewery, Fort Myers,

before allegedly going home to her condo with her and murdering her. We believe it was all in an attempt to assume her Hutchinson's identity. If you 800-780-TIPS, T-I-P-S, 800-780-8477. Nancy, as the U.S. Marshals Service has updated the Reese case to a major case, it is now offering a reward of up to $5,000 for information leading to her arrest. And the Florida Crime Stoppers is also offering a reward of up to $1,000. So that's a $6,000 reward if you can help them catch this woman. Lois Ann Reese, you can run, but you can't hide. Attention type 2 diabetics. If you or a loved one has taken Invokana, Invokamet, or Invokamet XR,

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Principal office, Las Vegas, Nevada. A millionaire Atlanta lawyer in a prominent law firm on trial for the murder of his wife. Right now, we are heading into jury deliberations as we speak. Straight out to Art Harris, Crime Stories investigative reporter, Emmy award-winning journalist. Art Harris, take it from the beginning. How did Tex McIver's wife end up dead? They're in the SUV heading home from his country farm and they pull off downtown. Danny Joe Carter, his wife's best friend, is driving. The wife is in the front seat in front of Tex, who's in the back seat.

Tex just wakes up when they get off the expressway. It's been very crowded. Says, this is not a good area. Give me my gun. And his wife hands him his.38, which he keeps in a glove compartment. He's holding it, and suddenly he falls back asleep, according to what he's told people. Danny Joe, at some point, they're driving through Atlanta. Let me understand this. Mickey Sherman,

he wakes up in the back seat, and they're in this SUV. The friend of the family's driving. The wife is in the front bucket seat. And he goes, whoa, whoa, we're in a bad area of town. P.S. This is where I lived the whole time I was a prosecutor. I never thought it was a bad area. Anyway, so he goes, we're in a bad area of town. Give me my gun.

So they take out, I believe, a.38 wrapped in a Kroger grocery store plastic bag. They hand it to him, and he's so afraid, Mickey Sherman, you're the defense attorney, that he falls back to sleep. You never know what the jury's going to buy. It's as simple as that. The jury very often, and I know you'll agree with this, very often takes the evidence in and then decides that the prosecutor's going to belong. The defense attorney doesn't know what he's talking about, but we're going to solve the crime. And he did this and he did that, and that could be the situation here. Yeah, you know what, you're right.

I think juries just have a deep distrust of lawyers in general, and they figure it out on their own. So Art Harris, so he says he falls back to sleep with the gun in his hand. What happens then? Nancy, he then is awakened as they're driving past Piedmont Park at a stoplight, and the gun goes off. He says it's involuntary. He says, oh, I just discharged the gun. Is everybody okay? And his wife is not, obviously. He reaches around to hold her and then starts

telling Danny Joe, the driver, to head to Emory Hospital Emergency Room, which is about eight minutes away. And the prosecutor made a big deal of other hospitals were closer. He knew Emory anyway. They're there. And that is where the wife is unloaded into a wheelchair, raced in. And one doctor hears her say, so did you shoot yourself? She says, no, I didn't. My husband did, but it was an accident. And that that does pretty hangs in the air, which you can't refuse. That's pretty overwhelming for the defense. And normally I'm siding with the state. But for her to have said it was an accident, on the other hand, what does she know?

She was sitting up front. She doesn't know what's going on in the back seat. And later on, they ask the victim, do you want to see your husband? And she says no. She's told the driver, get off here. Traffic's bad. You wake up, ask for the gun, and then it goes off. How do you premeditate that? I think that is the big hole they have got to fill. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, Art. Hold on. You may be this Emmy award winning journalist, but hold on. You have covered enough murder cases to know that intent can be formed in an instant,

in the twinkling of an eye, in the time it takes for you to raise a gun and pull the trigger. He may have decided right then and there, here's my chance. Bam! All right? You don't need a long, drawn-out plan for murder, such as poisoning or lying in wait or hiring a hitman, every bar fight that ends in a shooting death wouldn't count anymore under your theory. Nancy, if you can make that case with a straight face, you would get a murder conviction here. But I don't think that's... I'm making the case right now about the meaning of intent.

Correct. But I do know this. I know that he was set up for inheriting a $4 million windfall from her estate to pay off all of his massive debts. I know that about within one month, Vincent Hill with me, he's been in court all day, every day. He had a yard sale, that's one way to put it, at a fancy boutique where he sold about $300,000 worth of her designer furs, boots, bags, jewelry within a couple of weeks after her death to raise money for himself. Vincent, that's not a good look. You're absolutely right, Nancy. It's not a good look.

And when I watched the jury's face, especially the female jurors when this was presented by the prosecution. You know, they all have the I can't believe he did that look on their face. What kind of man sells his dead wife's stuff so fast after she's dead and you were the one that killed her? So, you know, it was an aha moment right there for the prosecution when that came out. Well, another issue is going to be his changing statements. Again, that does not mean he did it. But Art Harris, his stories changed. He put out one spokesperson to say one thing, then retracted it, changed his story,

called people, left messages for them to lie to police. It's not good. Art Harris, how did he change his story? This is a well-known lawyer. He should know better. The one thing that he did when they got to the hospital, he tried to tell Danny Jones, just tell everybody you're a friend of the family. You just showed up that you were not driving. That is the one count that the judge has ordered to stay in. Two others of influencing witnesses have been dropped. The point about selling his wife's clothes and furs, over $300,000, he needed cash. These assets were losing value quickly, and I told him to sell it, a guy named Stan Smith.

So that initial— Whoa, you're talking about fur coats and jewelry as assets that are going to lose value quickly? What kind of line of BS are you trying to sell me, Art? I'm trying to counter what— A fur coat is a fur coat. Nancy, the inference, inference though that he sold it for himself was uh was was a little misleading oh who got the money uh he got the money to pay oh okay the people whose wife had left in her will at the on the advice of the estate lawyer

these are little things that the defense has been nipping at along the way, and that's why this is going to be a very challenging case for the jury. First charged with malice murder, which is premeditated, felony murder, which is a death occurring during a felony, which would have been aggravated assault, possession of a firearm. The guy had about 45 weapons, including multiple long guns in his home. Man, that was a moment in court when they brought in his home arsenal into the courtroom. It also appears suspicion was raised due to his behavior after his wife's death. He reportedly instructs the witness, Danny Joe Carter carter who's driving the suv to tell

cops she wasn't even in the car okay that's not good he then leaves a voicemail for her husband implying that carter should quote cease communicating her recollections to law enforcement because the statements place me the defendant in risk of immediate incarceration i.e if you don't shut up i'm going to jail that's another thing he also texts mciver reportedly asked his friend charles crane to retract a statement he made to the media after Crane said McIver took his gun out because he thought they were pulling up into a Black Lives Matter march and that the gun went off when they hit a speed bump. Okay, now we know that Diane handed him the gun and he was overheard by a nurse saying he was cleaning the gun and it went off cleaning the gun in the back seat so now we've got a fit asleep apnea we've got a black

lives matters march we've got blaming the homeless. And now we've got he's cleaning his gun. Okay. Art? These are the things that were not looking good, but he said he was, the nurses say he was cleaning the gun in the bathroom. And two other nurses came on to say they did not hear him say that at all. That nurse was passing by quickly.

But there were a lot of contradictions. And this guy is not very smart, taking his own advice and constantly looking for a reason why would he have a gun out and why carry one. Oh, I forgot the carjack story. Hold on. Wait. Then there was the carjack story where he thought they were getting carjacked. And then the gun went off when they hit a bump. Let me recap.

Who has these visions of horror and danger in downtown Atlanta going on in his head. So he played to that mentality, but he certainly miscalculated that that was uh the reason he was looking for an explanation of why he had the gun one thing they have missed nancy and i don't know if you'll pick up on it but his wife and diane had been drinking that night and she had passed a little a wine bag back and forth between her and Tex in the back seat. That drinking aspect has not come out or factored into anything. And, you know, I am just wondering why that, you know, that's something that when I interviewed Tex, he made a big deal out of saying that, you know, he didn't like wine. Wine was his wife's thing, you know, suggesting to me he hadn't been drinking that night when a nurse later smelled

alcohol on his breath at the hospital. Art Harris, Art Harris, what have I been telling you since I met you back in I don't know when? The devil is in the bottle, Art. That's a piece of advice that you could do well to heed. Now I'm going to go to the expert in this line of defense, Mickey Sherman, of course. Mickey, defense lawyer, author of a book, you can find that on Amazon, How Can You Defend Those People? You know, I'm not totally knocked over with the state's case, but changing your story over and over. A, he should have just shut the hay up, but B, he didn't, and he changed his story, Mickey, multiple times. What happened is that the case hit some speed bumps.

Not the people, but the case did. There's just so many. But the thing that I'm concerned with is that when someone asked what happened and the woman said it was an accident, that's a character statement as far as I'm concerned. It's a character witness to say that I don't think he did it.

I agree with you. I agree with you. To me, that's the most powerful defense I've heard so far. To Karen Stark, New York psychologist, that's what the shooting victim said, the wife said. But, you know, then you got to take into account, he had just taken out from his wife a $350,000 loan. It's very confusing. There's a conundrum in everything that's being described because on the one hand, he does seem to have this sleep problem and there's not a lot of evidence to support that he murdered her, but his behavior and the contradictions that occur selling her stuff and the fact that there's all this money involved that he will inherit makes you suspicious of what really happened. I mean, an accidental shooting, then the wife doesn't want him in there, but says it was an accident. This is a very complicated case and difficult to try.

But really, what would she know? She was in the front seat. True. Take a listen to the state's main witness, Danny Carter, during direct testimony. The gun was right here, and that's where it was when I'd seen it before. When he said, darling, hand me my gun, Diane said, Tex, I don't even know where your gun is. And he said, it's in the console. I saw a puff of smoke, and I could see his hand, his hands.

And I could see the top of the gun. Diane turned around, like, she turned around this way. She slung around, and she says, Tex, what did you do? What was his demeanor like? Kind of just, he was holding her head and saying Diane, Diane, but, you know, contained. Take a listen to the state's closing argument. Now I'm going to spend just the last few minutes just talking to you for a minute about Diane McGuire. Self-made, she's from Alabama.

We know she had no biological family. She started out as a bookkeeper. She told Elaine, my greatest fear is to not have enough money to live the kind of lifestyle I want to. She was great with numbers, specialized in real estate, owned several companies, president and CEO of U.S. Enterprises. She was a multi-millionaire. She had a sharp tongue, but she loved Austin. She had an extravagant lifestyle. She wanted her personal loans formalized. She loved her Corey family, and she absolutely loved Danny Joe Carter. They had the best friendship ever, because when Danny Joe fell out of line, she took him back back and he had this real special bond together in fact this thing affected daddy Joe so bad she took a drink for the first time the night after I started my presentation by asking you a question who Who will stand for Diane McGowdy? Who will stand for Diane McGowdy? Carl. Diane tried to stand up for herself.

In her last waking moments. Dr. Suzanne Hardy asked her a question. Dr. Suzanne Hardy asked her a question. Do you want to see your husband? I'm about to put this tooth down your mouth. You're not going to be able to speak. Diane knew she was going. She said to her over and over again, am I dying?

Am I dying? We've talked to folks. They'll tell you, especially old people, they know you know. And so she asked her a question. Listen, you told me that it was an accident. Do you want to see your husband? And she said, no. No. And here is the defense. Did the state prove to you that it was not an accident? And she said, no, no.

And here is the defense. Did the state prove to you that it was not an accident? Here's what they're saying to you. Pay no attention to the reasonable doubts that you heard from Mr. Samuel. A list of at least 16. Pay no attention to those doubts. Rely on speculation. And I want to tell you that speculation is different than circumstantial evidence. We do not convict people on the clouds and fogs of speculation, but on the bedrock of fact.

That's what we do. Maybe there was another will. Search warrants, gathering documents, every conceivable method was used to try to bring you a second will. There wasn't one. There's email traffic in 2011. We're gonna do it. Here's what we're talking about. We haven't agreed on everything and from 2011 to the date this happened there is no second will. There was an advertisement taken out in the legal organ of Fulton County. Any lawyer, anybody that knows anything about a second will, come tell us. Come tell us you prepared it. Come tell us you saw it. Come tell us I've got it.

Maybe there is another will. That's pure speculation. Maybe she would foreclose on the loan. Well, there's not a shred of evidence that she did or was going to. In fact, it was rolled over. Maybe they argued in private maybe but there's no evidence of that either maybe he had another woman in his life and we heard about all the speculation but that's maybe again that's speculation maybe maybe. Pay no attention to the proof of accident. Rely on our red herrings to reach your decision.

That's what the state's case has been in this case. Nothing more than the maybes. Again, this trial is an accident in search of a motive, and it's a tale of innuendos and undelivered promises. Each of you has the ability to say, well, let's examine what everybody has said here. Let's examine what the evidence is in this case. And each of you has the right to make an independent decision

and say, you know, something. For me, the state just didn't prove their case. For me, I'm not going to rely on all the maybes. For me, I don't believe the't prove their case. For me, I'm not going to rely on all the maybes. For me, I don't believe the state proved their case, and you have the right to have that opinion respected by your fellow jurors. So when you go back to deliberate, we don't have a chance to come back and talk to you or get some questions answered.

Somebody is going to have to say, well, what about this? Here's what I think. Respect my views as well. And when you do that, and you cut away all the maybes, and you cut away all the innuendos, and you cut away all the undelivered promises,

your verdict should be not guilty as to all counts in this indictment. The jury deliberating now. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. If you're over the age of 50 and considering buying an annuity in the next 60 days, I have some important news for you. Don't buy an annuity until you understand the pros and cons of annuities. A free book to help you maximize your retirement income from television host and three-time author Josh Melberg has been released. This book reveals little-known truths about annuity strategies in simple-to-understand terms. Grab a pen right now because we are about to offer you this free book that unlocks the five little-known secrets we believe baby boomers and seniors should know before buying an annuity. Call 800-835-0176 now and you'll receive a free copy of Josh Milberg's book, Next Gen Annuity Strategies Revealed. As a bonus, we'll also send

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