Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - BLOODY VALENTINE: HUBBY MURDERS WIFE, SAYS SHE 'JUST DIDN'T GIVE A S--T' ABOUT PARIS-THEME DATE

Starting point is 00:00:00 This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A bloody Valentine? A husband murders his wife because she, quote, just didn't give a s**t about his Paris-themed date? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. A Valentine's Day dinner turns deadly.

Starting point is 00:00:30 An Indiana mother of three young kids is murdered during a romantic dinner. Doesn't sound that romantic to me. He goes to Kroger to the fine wine aisle, brings home a bottle of wine and plays their favorite song along with the kids drawing of the Eiffel Tower. What is she not supposed to remember the affair he had? Now, let me understand this. Is this real? A husband accused of bludgeoning and stabbing his wife 40 times. His words, not mine, because she didn't give a s**t about his Paris theme night date.

Starting point is 00:01:17 I think I've got that right, but maybe I'm wrong. Listen. Jeffersonville, Indiana police get a call about a possible domestic disturbance. They respond to the upscale 6600 block of Westwood Drive, but cannot get into the home. Officers knock on the front door, but do not hear a response and decide force is necessary and breach the door. I'm going to get straight to the facts, but first I'm going to go to Dr. Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalyst, joining us out of the L. the LA jurisdiction, author of Deal Breaker. You can find her at drbethanymarshallmd.com. Wait, that's drbethanymarshall.com.

Starting point is 00:01:52 And you can see her now on Peacock. Dr. Bethany, thank you for being with us. Let me understand something. Hubby puts on a sad little song. What does he pull it up on his iPhone of what used to be their favorite song, buys a sad little bottle of wine at Kroger and has his child draw a picture of the Eiffel Tower. And he's angry that she quote, his words doesn't give a about his Paris theme night date. So he murders her. What is she, was she supposed to forget about the affair he had and be just bowled over by a glass of red wine if we look at this from a domestic violence perspective this husband probably wanted power and control over her because that's the mo with dv and so probably him having an affair in the past, making her feel bad about herself, probably giving her

Starting point is 00:02:45 very little in the marriage, was probably getting her to a point where she wanted some independence. And the fact that she wanted some independence destabilized him. So he steps up, does this little Valentine's Day dinner so he can try to get control over him again. He's not trying to seduce her, give her a gift or do something nice for her. He wants her back in the fold. But when she leaves for 20 minutes, he becomes paranoid, thinks she's out with the boyfriend, and then he decompensates. And that's when the ragefulness and you know, he he takes the power over her to a whole new level. When you kill somebody, that's the ultimate power, correct? Let me understand something, Dr. Bethany. What does it mean, having not only prosecuted violent felonies for a decade in inner city Atlanta, but volunteered for nine of those years

Starting point is 00:03:38 at the Better Women's Center on the hotline? How does it escalate? Or is that even the right word to get that angry because she didn't like your iphone playing the night we met or whatever it was and giving me a glass of wine how does that escalate into murder because in my world bet Bethany, years of training makes me look at the world a different way, such as is there premeditation? Was this planned? When did he hatch the plot? What can I prove to a jury? What is probative to me? So the term you use, escalate, I don't know that I agree with that because that somehow means that the situation got out of control and whoops, she's dead. That's not what happened. He had to go get the bottle that he used to bludgeon her, stab her. That took time and a forethought, a technical term we use in the law, it didn't just escalate and whoops,

Starting point is 00:04:46 it happened. Right, right. He didn't. In other words, he didn't snap because people love that word. So I see where you're going with this and you're correct. Probably what happened is at the beginning of the marriage, he had tight control over her and she wanted to have autonomy over her whole life, her own life. Maybe she took a college course or started getting friends or went out and got a job.

Starting point is 00:05:12 And as she became more and more independent, the escalation was that he became more and more paranoid, insecure. Remember, he sat on her back and was scrolling through her phone. He was trying to spy on her through her watch. So when it escalated in that moment, it wasn't just like a snap or a sudden escalation. It had been escalating over years. But the fact is, when she said, OK, what are you going to do, kill me? That was one act of independence. When she left and got in her car and drove away, that was one act of independence. When she left and got in her car and drove away,

Starting point is 00:05:46 that was another act of independence. So I would think that homicide that was contemplated at an unconscious level or hatefulness that was contemplated for months or years, finally, finally, finally spilled over when she became her own person. Okay. Dr. Bethany, I accept everything that you just said. For those of you just joining us, a husband who is presumed innocent is suspected of bludgeoning and stabbing his wife dead when she, quote, his words, not mine. When she, quote, didn't give a s**t about his Paris theme party.

Starting point is 00:06:23 So he murders her on Valentine's. Greg Morse joining me. Guys, Greg Morse joining us out of Palm Beach, Florida is a veteran trial lawyer. He's a partner at King Morse. Your name should be first, by the way, former West Palm Beach public defender's office and author of The Untested on Amazon. Greg, you know what of the many things that I hate is when people say I snapped or she snapped or he snapped. There is no snap defense under the law. Okay. So given that, and don't try to convince me otherwise, because that's a lie, he would have to, in order to murder her in this manner, bludgeoning the... Hey, Christina Araya, I'm coming to you, but how many children did they have? Two or three? Three children, all under the age of five.

Starting point is 00:07:18 Greg Morse, the children are at home, by the way, asleep. He had to think. Under the law, premeditation does not require a long period of time, such as I'm going to poison Greg Morris over the period of the next month with a little arsenic every day in his coffee till he is dead. Not required. In fact, the time required under the law, whether we like it or not, can be in an instant. The twinkling of the moment, the blink of an eye, the time it takes me to raise this

Starting point is 00:07:52 gun and pull the trigger, that is enough time under the law for premeditation. In other words, murder one, malice, murder, murder a forethought. This guy, if the allegations are true, husband had to go and get the wine bottle, grasp it, raise it over his head, and bludgeon her over and over and over with the thick glass of a wine bottle, and then stab her. The knife didn't just materialize in his hand.

Starting point is 00:08:20 He had to get a knife and use it. So, long story short, that is time to form intent. You're right. Intent can come up in the moment. You're 100 percent right under the law. But in these type of cases, when you talk about the phrase snapped and I've represented people accused of violent felonies for 25 years. And one thing is the when they act to commit the violence, most people don't understand that moment in time and the consequence and wish they can take it all back. But what we can't do is look at an insanity. We can't look at the crime, it's violent, it's horrible, so therefore the person

Starting point is 00:08:57 must be insane. That crime is the outgrowth of insanity. And what I think we have here, and I've dealt with this before in cases, you probably have a timeline of this person, the husband, you know, getting frustrated and getting more warped in his understanding of his wife's relationship. People think mental illness is someone in a white coat in a room, but mental illness can develop subtly and it can develop over time. These folks were looking for help. They had, I guess, an appointment with a marriage counselor three days later. Unfortunately, they didn't make it. You are actually plunging a dagger into my heart. Your misstatement of the law is shameless.

Starting point is 00:09:37 Mental illness. He had no prior mental illness at all. He got mad because his wife, and he said this, she just didn't give a shit about my parents theme night. He said that. That is not mental illness. That is anger. Yes.

Starting point is 00:10:00 No. It's anger. A defense. This was a rageful killing. Yes. No. Rageful killing. this was a rageful killing yes no rageful killing 100 rageful killing this that amount of stab wounds is rage under the law can you answer that with a straight face morse no but if i'm living in a reality where that is the appropriate response to her reaction, then yes, it is. Again, Nancy, the crime is the outgrowth of insanity. What did I just hear you say?

Starting point is 00:10:28 Is anger the appropriate response to her reaction for his date night? No. Oh, okay. That's the point. First of all, control room, cut his mic. Cut his mic right now. Shannon Henry, right there is the problem. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Shannon Henry is joining me. She is the president and founder of SAS, S-A-S-S, GO.

Starting point is 00:11:09 It is Surviving Assault Standing Strong, on a mission to eradicate abuse and violence against women and girls. Shannon, did you hear what he just said? I did, and I'm so glad you cut him off so that the people listening don't believe that crap. This was not just about power and control. This was about ownership. He didn't have any anymore. And so he stole it.

Starting point is 00:11:35 It was not about rage. It wasn't a crime of passion. I don't want to hear that either. This was a sadistic killing where he enjoyed watching her suffer from the dress he made her put on to the dance he made her do to the end where she begged for her life and the lives of her children. It was the grand finale of their marriage from start to finish. And he enjoyed it all. And I guarantee you this wasn't the first time she felt like her life was being threatened, but it was the last.

Starting point is 00:12:05 Would you describe Shannon Henry? And I'm going to go out to the national news anchor at CLM News Channel, Christine Awayo. But Shannon Henry, joining us from Surviving Assault, Standing Strong, Mission Eradicate Violence on Women. You said from the dress he made her wear to the dance he made her do. What are you talking about? I'm talking about him setting up a stage where every gift, quote unquote, was a threat and she knew it. You don't go from zero to murder this fast. And if she could clarify it for us all today, she would beg us to listen to her final words of help. And what are you going to do? Murder me and leave our children without

Starting point is 00:12:52 parents. She was not confused about him. There is a gap that we have in the story between her working hard as a 12 hour shift nurse to him being promiscuous and lazy up to the date of February 14th, 2025, where he murdered her. But I guarantee you, some of her friends and co-workers and family could fill in this gap for us. But the red flags are there. This was about ownership. He didn't have it anymore, so he stole it and bragged to everyone who he could about taking it. New details emerge after an Indiana doting husband and father allegedly confesses to murder after feeling unappreciated. Were warning signs missed? Warning signs? Unappreciated? That is not justification for murder. And joining me,

Starting point is 00:13:44 who I've got a lot of problems with him, Greg Morse, a veteran trial lawyer. He's a partner at a big law firm, King Morse. He's apparently the king of the courtroom down in Palm Beach County, Florida. But to Shannon Henry joining us, you can look at Morse, but keep his mic cut for just a moment. Shannon Henry joining me from SAS, surviving assault, standing strong. We got off topic because what you were saying was so interesting. But I want to go back to what Morse said. He responded and got angry to her because of her reaction to his Paris theme night, which was basically a bottle

Starting point is 00:14:29 of cheap red wine and playing a song on his iPhone. That was the theme night. And then getting some sexy dress and making her wear it and dance with him. That was the theme night. Okay. Right there, Shannon Henry. I can't tell you how many times I heard, I did it because she fill in the blank. Here is my seminal example. Shannon, this is a real

Starting point is 00:14:55 example. This happened on the hotline at the battered women's center. The man beats the wife so badly. She has to go to the hospital because he was bringing people from work home and he told her to make a Mexican dinner. So she makes a Mexican dinner. He comes in and finds out, I don't remember which one, she made tacos, not enchiladas. And he beat her to a pulp. So he actually said, well, it's because she made the wrong thing. Here you hear Greg Morse defend. And I, I know what he's doing. He's defending the husband here that's his job

Starting point is 00:15:46 he is saying he just had this response because of her reaction she reacted badly and he responded it's always the woman's fault Shannon it's always the woman's fault and Shannon. It's always the woman's fault. And what's so sad is to look at the stack of red flags that are against him. He had no remorse. He bragged about how big the knife was. He sent the pictures. He made her do a song and dance in front of him and act like she enjoyed it. And when she didn't seem to appreciate it, he murdered her, and he is the only one responsible for that.

Starting point is 00:16:29 We also learned that he was convinced his wife was dating a co-worker. Enter Barry Hutchinson, former law enforcement, 26 years, veteran detective, now owner-chief, operator of Barry & Associates Investigative Services. And you can find him on his new website, P.I. Pride Investigator, Barry, B-A-R-R-Y. Barry, thank you for being with us. Oh, what a tangled web results from imagining your mate is having an affair with a coworker. Lucky for me, my husband,

Starting point is 00:17:09 he knew I would never have an affair with a defense attorney or all the other eligible men that were in the courtroom, mostly convicted felons in leg irons and shackles. And I have never even considered that he would run around with a client or a co-worker. I just, in fact, one time I read his emails one time, one time they were so boring. He's a banker. My eyes bled. I had, I just, it was awful. If I had to check up on a man to figure out if he's cheating, why do I need him?

Starting point is 00:17:47 Bye bye. But here, this guy was convinced she's having an affair and it justified murder. Well, there's no justification in murder, regardless of what the circumstances are. And so you know that as well as I do. I think what we have here is a classic case of when motive meets opportunity. I think it was a long-based toxic relationship that this young lady, unfortunately, should have been out of long before this ever happened. The only saving grace in this whole scenario that I can even come up with in my mind is that I'm just thankful that it didn't turn out to be a SWAT call where the kids were endangered, where he actually executed the children, too, as the ultimate showing of I'm going to hurt them in front of you just to show you what I think of you. We've seen that happen on SWAT calls many, many, many times.

Starting point is 00:18:37 And we're fortunate that didn't take place. You mean what they call now, Barry, a family annihilator. So what I'm asking you, and it was in a very roundabout way, and I apologize for that. Barry, I know that as a PI, you get a lot of calls about, I think my girlfriend, boyfriend, ex-wife, blah, blah, is cheating. Isn't it true that very often people get this in their head and it's absolutely not true at all? That's very true. Very true. In fact, the biggest thing that we do and we tell all of our clients this up front is that our mission is to vet your spouse that they are not cheating. And if it turns out that they are, then we'll address it at that point. But our mission is to vet them that they are not doing so. Guys, listen to what happened. Deborah's friend receives a photo texted from Deborah's phone. It shows Deborah Meyer

Starting point is 00:19:30 motionless and bloody on the floor of her home with the caption, your fault. 911 dispatch gets a call from a co-worker of Deborah Meyer. When they arrive, Taylor Meyer is refusing to come to the door. Almost as soon as police arrive, so does Deborah Meyer's co-worker. Okay, I've got so much premeditation. It's out the yin-yang technical legal term here. To Kristen Awayo joining me, which is, you know, a euphemism for somebody who's getting their rear end beat. All right. That's what that means.

Starting point is 00:20:16 Coworker calls 911 and coworker says, Deborah Meyer is being attacked right now. Go to this address. Cops get there. And then the coworker gets, Deborah Meyer is being attacked right now. Go to this address. Cops get there. And then the coworker gets a text. Describe that sequence of events for me so I understand exactly what happened. That's the wildest part about all of this, right? So Deborah Meyer's husband, Taylor, actually calls a contact in the phone who he thinks is the boyfriend, which is actually the coworker, while he's sitting on Deborah Meyer's back and she's screaming in the phone who he thinks is the boyfriend, which is actually the co-worker, while he's sitting on Deborah Meyer's back and she's screaming in the background, help me, help me, help me. So her co-worker hears this while her husband is telling the co-worker, this is all your fault. So of course, the co-worker calls the cops and says, she's in danger. I can

Starting point is 00:20:59 hear her screaming. He hops in his car, hightails it over to her house, as do the cops, and they're meeting in the front yard. The cops are trying to get into the front door. Of course, Taylor Meyer's not answering the door because he's abusing his wife, possibly killing her at that very moment, because it was while the co-worker was standing in the front yard of the home, he gets the text message of the picture of Deborah Meyer on the floor of her own home dead. So that's when police officers decide to bust down the door. They said that Taylor Meyer was aggressive, resisted arrest, and they finally arrested him. But it's almost safe to presume that he could have been in the act of killing her while the police officers and the co-worker were

Starting point is 00:21:43 out on the front lawn trying to get into the house. I mean, it was that tight of a timeline. Accusing her husband of cheating on her and ignoring their children via email, Deborah tries explaining her feelings by saying, I'm supposed to be your wife, your partner, raising children with you, co-parenting. I get that you have hobbies and want some time to yourself, but I also feel like that should be limited to certain times of the day and not just immediately get home, shower and go play games and ignore your family that has missed you all day. That is an email that she, the murder victim, sent to her husband prior to her murder. Christina Awayo joining me, National News national news anchor Salem news. So she is asking him to help her raise the children. I quote, get, you have hobbies and want time to yourself, but I also feel like

Starting point is 00:22:35 you should spend time with the children, not just get home, shower and go play games. Backflip after I work all day long and make dinner. And if my husband came home and immediately went to the back and got on video games, Oh yeah. Fur would fly. Let me just tell you that. And she's writing in this nice email about it. And this was back in 2023. And this is the same email where she accused him of cheating. So the story of infidelity is going back to the beginning part of their marriage. She said that he was in the email accused him of having a relationship with another woman, which he kept in constant context with. And she even accused him of seeing that woman who she thought she was dating directly before the family went and took family Christmas pictures. So she already thought he was cheating. He may have been cheating. He was before the family went and took a family Christmas picture. So she already

Starting point is 00:23:26 thought he was cheating. He may have been cheating. He was ignoring the family. She was reaching out and she, in that email actually threatened to leave him, which she didn't want to do because it was going to be hard to take care of the three kids, but she was going to. Yes. What did nude photos on somebody's phone mean to you? Cheating. Because for me, that means D-I-V-O-R-C-E. Yes. And Dr. Bethany Marshall, listen to this. Frustrated and feeling like a single mom, Deborah writes an email to her husband

Starting point is 00:23:55 accusing him of cheating, claiming he met up with his girlfriend minutes before they took their family Christmas photo together at a mall. In the explosive email, Deborah says she doesn't want him sending and receiving nude photos from people he was with before they were together at a mall. In the explosive email, Debra says she doesn't want him sending and receiving nude photos from people he was with before they were together as a couple. Debra also accuses her husband of ignoring her and the couple's three children to play video games.

Starting point is 00:24:15 She concludes the email with, quote, raising three kids is exhausting, but if I have to, I'm going to do it alone. Just let me know and I'll figure something else out. Raising three children on her own. That's how she felt. Nude photos. He's exchanging with old girlfriends, according to her, ducking out to see the girlfriend before the Christmas photo together. First of all, Bethany Marshall, do you agree with me that sending nude photos is cheating? I agree with you. Okay. I'm really surprised you said that. I thought you were going to take the other, other tack, but explain to me. I mean, I would be so

Starting point is 00:24:52 hurt to find out my husband's exchanging nude photos. First of all, I wouldn't believe it. I think somebody had stolen his phone and was doing it, but that said it's cheating. Okay. Nancy, not only is this cheating, but Taylor entered this relationship, this marriage with Deborah thinking he could do whatever he wants to do. And Deborah was in a double bind. She sent out to work. She's a nurse. She supports the family. And all the time that she's out there working, he's just brewing up a fantasy that she's cheating on him when in fact it's a projection because he's cheating on her. I love what Shannon said about this is not just about power.

Starting point is 00:25:30 This is about ownership. He owns her and he can do whatever he wants, send her out like a dog to work. The minute she gets home, go out, have his own affair, do whatever he wants to do. He's highly manipulative and he's been grooming her for years that she is just an object to be used. I also think, Nancy, that he is so vindictive. This is a part of his personality and it comes out when he's talking to the police. It's almost like he's bragging about the knife. And I think one underlying component that we all need to recognize about DV is that perpetrators, everything hurts their feelings. Everything makes them feel insulted, like they've been insulted by the other person.

Starting point is 00:26:12 So your story about the man who beat his wife to a pulp because she made tacos rather than enchiladas, he probably took that as a personal affront, felt insulted, then felt diminished, then deflated, and then went on the attack because that is the classic pattern. I want to go straight back out to Greg Morse joining us. Please uncut his mic. Partner at King Morse, veteran trial lawyer. I hope you've had time to think about what you said, that he killed her because of the way she reacted.

Starting point is 00:26:47 Would you like to clarify your opinion? Yeah. And with this premeditation stuff on these facts, everyone has to make a lot of leaps of faith. And frankly, it's just it's it's not there in what we know so far. What I was saying is that when people have mental illness and this is a hard case, you know, you were a prosecutor, temporary insanity. Are you back on mental illness? No, no, no. I'm sorry, you just gave me a sharp pain in my head.

Starting point is 00:27:15 You made a case on the show, Nancy. All of your experts just made my case for me. I'd hire them in my case. Talking about how he wants to control an act. That would, that would let us believe that he made, no, what I'm saying is that this guy, there's no domestic violence before. So if he wants to control every aspect of our life and he's contrived and intentional, we're going to see police reports. Generally, we see this act out well before the murder in these cases. What we have

Starting point is 00:27:43 is mental illness doesn't just come with people in white coats and screaming about aliens. It's very subtle. And if this guy believed at the time that his wife's reaction, he was living in this alternate reality, to him, that caused him to do this, well, you know, then you have, he wasn't thinking right and wrong in that situation. There's no evidence whatsoever that this guy was planning this. Did he plan to buy the wine bottle before the show and do, I mean, before the dinner, so he can hit her over the head with it? No, none of that is there. Did he plan? That's not required under the law. Once again, you are contorting the law to suit your purposes.

Starting point is 00:28:20 Again, that degree of premeditation is not required. The only degree of premeditation can be formed in seconds. By the time it takes him to walk in the kitchen and get the wine bottle and come back, that's enough time. Plus, he stabbed her 40 times. Do I have to say Jody Arias? Do I have to raise up that specter? Jody Arias stabbed Travis Alexander 29 times, then shot him in the head, leaving him to decompose in the shower stall.

Starting point is 00:28:55 Just because you attack someone multiple times does not insanity make. It makes you a killer, a cold-blooded killer. That's what I started out with. That act doesn't make someone insane at all. The act is the outgrowth of insanity sometimes when we have that. Killing someone, people shooting up a school, that seems insane to all of us because we wouldn't do it.

Starting point is 00:29:15 But you know, under the law, just because you did that doesn't mean you're insane. You knew right from wrong. You shouldn't have done it. What my point is, Jodi Arias didn't take pictures and send it. Jodi Arias didn't act like this was an okay thing. She got caught. She, she, she, she, yes, she took pictures. Busted. She did take pictures. No, I understand that. I completely understand that she did. Look how this guy acted in this case with the police. That's not how someone that intends to commit murder acts. They just don't. They don't do that.

Starting point is 00:29:57 By not letting the police come in, by knowing enough to barricade the door, more, more evidence of guilt. You know what? Let me jog your memory as to the real facts, not the facts in Greg Moore's world, but the actual facts from the police reports. Meyer decides to try and turn things around in his marriage by preparing a Valentine's Day dinner with a theme. Bring Paris to you. Pulling out all the stops, Meyer has their children draw pictures of the Eiffel Tower to decorate the table, buys Deborah a beautiful new dress, and they dance to their wedding song. When the song ends and the dance is finished, Deborah Meyer doesn't give her husband the reaction he wants, and they begin to argue. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. After hitting his wife in the head with a glass wine bottle several times,

Starting point is 00:31:02 Taylor Myers says Debra was unconscious, but he wasn't sure if she was dead. So he went into the kitchen and got a quote, big knife, a long one, and came back to her while she is laid out on the floor and stabs her over and over again in the chest. All told, the 36-year-old mother of three, Deborah Meyer, is stabbed 40 times after being beaten in the head with a wine bottle. He's her trial lawyer at a Palm Beach describing how the husband in this scenario, now murder defendant Taylor Meyer, says to police, I wasn't sure if she was totally dead. So after I beat her in the head with a wine bottle, I went in the kitchen and got a quote, his words, not mine, big knife, a long one. And while she laid on the floor, stabbed her over and over again in the chest. Joining me now is renowned chief medical examiner from Tarrant County, that's Fort Worth, esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU, Dr. Kendall Crowns.

Starting point is 00:32:05 He's about to launch a hit podcast called DOA Dead on Arrival, April 7. Dr. Kendall Crowns, could you describe what the victim endured after the first blow with the thick end of a wine bottle? Certainly. So basically a bottle, when you're struck in the head, the harder edge of the bottle will hit into your head, causing contusions or bruises, tearing at the skin. Usually bottles aren't heavy enough to break the skull, but they can cause you to go unconscious or cause you to collapse. You're going to have

Starting point is 00:32:45 pain associated with that, headaches. But if they beat you into unconsciousness, he's probably looking at her, still seeing she's breathing. I've seen that before where they can't kill him with the wine bottle, so they go switch up and find something else. He walked into the kitchen, came back, and then started stabbing her with a knife. The fact that he stabbed her in the chest over 40 times, clustered all together is what we call overkill. So she's obviously unconscious or subdued at that point. And he just keeps stabbing her until she stops breathing. Dr. Kendall Crowns, after the first blow to the head with a wine bottle, we have no evidence that the wine bottle was broken. So that corroborates your theory as to the nature of the first blow.

Starting point is 00:33:33 I believe based on the fact the wine bottle was still intact, that she was conscious and saw him coming at her with a knife, lying there immobilized with her children above her asleep in bed. She sees her husband approach her with a knife and the stabbing begins. Is that scenario feasible, Dr. Kendall Crowns? Yes, that is a possibility that she could still have been conscious. She could have been trying to possibility that she could still have been conscious. She could have been trying to fake that she was conscious. There's also a possibility that when he beats her to the ground with the wine bottle that he could have jumped on her back, breaking her spinal

Starting point is 00:34:16 column. The many possibilities and that could leave her paralyzed. And so she could still be conscious and see him approaching with the knife and not be able to do anything about it. She was stabbed 40 times, 4-0, with a quote, big kitchen knife, quote, a long one. Obviously, she died from bleeding out. So explain to me, if she was not killed in the initial stabs, what would she have endured as she was stabbed repeatedly in the chest? So it's going to take her a few minutes to bleed out from the stab wounds. So each stab wound that he's able to deliver is going to cause pain from the cutting of the skin and the piercing of the organs with the knife. And then the fact that she's being stabbed in the chest, it could collapse lungs,

Starting point is 00:35:10 making it difficult for her to breathe. She could also be coughing blood up and then swallowing the blood. So she's getting blood in her mouth, inhaling the blood, gagging while she's being stabbed over and over, feeling the pain until she finally bleeds out after a few minutes. Granted, 40 stab wounds, he could probably deliver those in that entire time frame that it takes her to bleed out. Officers are shocked to learn that husband Taylor Meyer took pictures of his wife's lifeless body and sent it to Deborah's friend and co-worker who called 911. Meyer also texted his wife's family and friends saying, I killed Debbie because she's

Starting point is 00:35:46 a cheating, lying bitch. Meyer says wife just didn't give a shit about the Paris-themed date he planned. An Indiana man sent photos to an alleged lover after a Valentine's Day dinner went sour. What's next for the father of three? Let me understand what I'm hearing. That he actually tells police that he murdered his wife because she, quote, just didn't give a shit about his Paris-themed dinner. And Christina Arroyo, joining us on Salem News Channel, he wrote the relatives, sent her relatives a picture of her bludgeoned, stabbed body and said, I killed Debbie because she is a cheating, lying. Is that right? Yes, that is correct. He did that. He sent it to the co-worker saying it's your fault. And what's interesting is while he was speaking to police, all of this revealed in the affidavit,

Starting point is 00:36:42 he was almost trying to get them on his side, like explaining, you understand, right? She did this to me. This was the hardest I've ever tried, he said. And if the hardest you've ever tried is buying a dress, taking your wife out to dinner, it's pretty indicative of how much effort you put into the relationship over the last four years. But he was literally explaining to the cops, like they were boys, like they were friends. This is why I did it. Can't you understand? She did this to me. She didn't care. I worked so hard on the celebration and she just didn't care. Correct me if I'm wrong, Christina, but I understood he did not take her

Starting point is 00:37:16 out to dinner, that they ordered delivery, Japanese delivery. Well, according to what I read in the affidavit, it wasn't clear on if they went out or ordered in. It was that he got her a dinner from their favorite Japanese steakhouse. To go with their Paris theme night. Okay. Uh, Dr. Bethany Marshall, help me out here. Uh, I killed Debbie because she is a cheating, lying. You know what? He might as well fill that in with i killed debbie because she made tacos not enchiladas there's always a reason why the woman deserves to be murdered have you noticed that and he's trying to get the cops to agree with him she's such a hoe she's a liar she's a cheater she's a she goes on and on she did this she did that i had to kill her well like they're gonna agree and and give him father of the year. You know, Nancy, probably what was happening leading up to this too, was that he was calling coworkers and family members and trying to recruit everybody to be on his side, because

Starting point is 00:38:15 this just spills over when he starts to talk to the police. He probably feels very beleaguered by her. And it's very common for these types of men to invest very little into the relationship, but expect everything back from the house, from the spouse. So he just orders up a steak dinner. He doesn't cook. Perhaps he doesn't even take her to the restaurant, buys her probably a horse dress, makes her dance to the music. But he expects all these accolades and all this praise from her. So it's almost like when you ask your child to set the table for dinner and they just do something really small, like set a plate down, they think they deserve so much praise because that's where they are developmentally. Well, these domestic abusers are caught developmentally at that same phase of life where they just

Starting point is 00:39:03 invest the tiniest teensiest little bit and when they don't get all the praise they want all hell breaks loose to greg morse believe it or not i'm giving you the final argument hit me well it it is this is not all of these factors and inferences you're making to show premeditation. He's controlling. He's a domestic abuser. So let's suppose there is no murder and we hear this guy does this. It's just a story, a Paris theme night. What a romantic thing. He tried to bring his wife, Paris.

Starting point is 00:39:34 How nice. So my point is he's not acting like someone who planned this. If he was aggressive and an abuser the whole night when she leaves for 20 minutes, why does she come back? You would have seen signs of that. My point is insanity can come up below the surface and it can be there. And having the appointment in three days lends me to believe that this was not planned. This was something, unless you believe he planned the appointment to show that he really loved his wife and was trying and tried to set up an insanity defense. But it's a horrible outcome. It's a difficult case to defend. Don't get me wrong. It is very challenging. But I think mental illness is a lot more prevalent in relationships. And I've

Starting point is 00:40:16 talked about this on TV in cases I've had before. And this is the outgrowth of it. And it does create this guy was living in his own reality. You know, Shannon Henry, joining me, president, founder of South Surviving Assault, Standing Strong. If what he just said was true, they would empty out every jail in the country because everybody would say I had a mental illness. I was angry. That's right. And she came back because she had kids there and she's a good mom. His last attempt to get help was to kill her. Hers was to go to therapy. And I do want to say she was a nurse to Greg. She was a nurse. She knew exactly what was happening to her body when it was happening. And he knew that she would understand that experience too. So while he may not have physically hit her before this day, and there may not be police

Starting point is 00:41:05 reports, he abused her for years by doing his best to break her down with infidelity and isolation and insecurity. And by the way, you can be depressed. You can be a psychopath. You can be a narcissist without being an abuser. And I want you to know, I would never, you would never be able to hire me. And if I did come, I would be honored to clarify that the abuse women endure at the hands of unprincipled lawyers like you is awful, just awful and shame on you for trying to make it clear that this person is insane when he's clearly not. He knew what he was doing from start to finish, from the dress to the stabbing, and then he bragged about it. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend.

Starting point is 00:42:02 This is an iHeart Podcast.

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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - BLOODY VALENTINE: HUBBY MURDERS WIFE, SAYS SHE 'JUST DIDN'T GIVE A S--T' ABOUT PARIS-THEME DATE

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