Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - BODY BAGS WITH JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN: GILGO UPDATE: 1997 Murder/Dismemberment of "Peaches". ARREST!

Episode Date: December 14, 2025

On June 28, 1997 a dismembered body is discovered by a father and his daughter out for a walk in Hempstead Lake State Park in Lakeview, New York. The torso is found in a rubber-maid container along with a red towel and a floral pillowcase. The head, both arms, both legs below the knee, all severed from the body and have not been found. A unique tattoo is found of a peach with a bite taken out of it that leads Investigators to publish a picture of the tattoo in a national tattoo magazine in hopes of finding an artist who remembered such a tattoo.  Tattoo artist Steve Cullen in Connecticut claimed to remember giving the tattoo to a young black woman, 18 or 19 years old. The body remained unidentified and was given the name "Peaches" and she is listed as one of the possible victims of the Long Island Serial Killer.   In 2011 the remains of a toddler are discovered that are identified in 2016 as belonging to "Peaches",  but still, no name identification. Joseph Scott Morgan and Dave Mack dive into the investigation of "Peaches" and her toddler to determine if they are part of the Gilgo murders or not, and if not, who killed the mother and daughter.   Transcribe Highlights00:00.76 Introduction - Peaches  02:01.42 Trip to the Hamptons 04:59.61 Gilgo suspect had to be familiar 10:16.22 Shannon Gilbert family 15:01.62 The science and math are complex 20:26.38 Tattoos 25:10.55 Saving for future science growth 30:04.06 Jane Doe #3 identified as part of "Peaches" from 1997 35:21.35 Communication dismemberment 40:00.41 Because of Gilgo investigation, Tanya and Tatiana identified as not part of LISK 43:58.24 Conclusion      See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Body facts with Joseph Scott Moore. There's a term of endearment. It's kind of an older term now. I don't hear it a lot, but I've always thought that it had kind of a sweetness to it. It's a term that I think my grandmother's generation would use. And this term of endearment generally refers to a female.

The term is actually a peach, and it implies that someone is naturally sweet, they're kind. There's someone that you would want to be around. For me, that term means a lot. It means a lot because I've actually gone out with my grandmother when I was little up around Rustin, Louisiana, and picked these gigantic peaches. My grandmother used to make peach ice cream. My wife loves peaches. But today, I'm going to talk about another kind of peach.

I'm going to talk about a peach, or at least the image of it, that was tattooed on a woman's body. That for years, we didn't know who she was. And, oh, by the way, this same woman had a child. we didn't know who that child was either and now we have identities of both of them and guess what we now have a suspect that is linked

to their murders I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is bodybacks a couple of years back Dave I was going up to the Hamptons. I guess it was the first year that we did

Hamptons who'd done it. You didn't get to go with me the first time. You went this past time, though, and I think you would agree. We had pretty good time, didn't we? It was a blast. Lovely people. I thought they were going to hear my accent and kicked me out. I'm out there on Long Island, say, no, you have to leave.

But they were just some of the sweetest folks and have always been very generous with us. And the first time I went up there, I went it with with Kimmy and Joe Jacqueline met us at the airport at LaGuardia. He's a trick. He is Joe's a former homicide sergeant and also Col case sergeant with NYPD and just sweet man. And to tell you what a good guy he is, he actually drove in to LaGuardia and picked Kimmy and I up at LaGuardia to make. the several hour trip. I didn't realize this as far out to the Hamptons. Because I've been up there.

And he said, you know, in his, in his voice that's distinctly New York, he was like, hey, Joe, I got a surprise for you guys. And I was like, okay, are we going to go eat like some clam chowder or something? Because we actually did. He said, yeah, after the clam chowder, we're going to go, we're going to go. I'm going to take you someplace special. Well, guess what? He's the one that took you? Yeah, Joe did. And I didn't know where I. was going. Oh, you better tell everybody else because I know what you're talking about. Okay, go ahead. I didn't know he did it. Yeah, it was Joe. And I had no idea.

And like I looked back over my shoulder at Kimmy in the back seat. I'm thinking, there's he taking us. Well, as it turns out, we wind up on this beautiful suburban street with these neat, neat yards. And we're looking at these houses. They're kind of small. And he's like, oh, yeah. He said, these houses in here? He says, 1.5 mil for these houses.

and I'm looking at these houses and I'm thinking they're really nice they're really neat but they ain't nothing special about them in Alabama you get a mansion

for that until we arrived in front of one particular house on Long Island and it looked like oh my Lord it looked like

the worst shack in the face of planet broken down dirty and then all of a sudden in my mind's eye I realized where I was

where I was and we were parked in front of Rex Heuerman's home. And how this guy lived in this neighborhood without being physically thrown out by all these people who apparently really work hard on their houses because there was not a blade of grass that was higher than anybody else's. It was like very house proud. Oh, boy, very house proud. I did not realize it was Joe that took you there. Oh, yeah, yeah.

And he takes us, he actually takes us down the coast road, still heading out. You down by there, didn't he? Yeah, yeah. We went out to where the Gilgah Four were actually found, took us to Google Beach. Because, you know, I've only talked about these things on the news. I didn't really have a sense about it. And, man, I tell you what, when I got there, I realized that whoever was doing these horrible acts had to have very specific knowledge about the terrain, about traffic movements. Because they say literally one of the hardest places to get around in the year.

U.S. is down that two-lane road headed out to the Hamptons during the summertime. It is blocked and locked down. Very tight pass. You'd have to know where you can turn around and all this stuff. So automatically, now I'm thinking somebody has to be a native that's going out here. You know, there's some kind of connectivity. But interestingly enough, Dave, the case that we're going to talk about today is kind of an outlier. Because for years and years, this case that we had that we are going to talk about has always been linked to the Gilgo four or whoever the perpetrator was to all these other remains and as it turns out brother Dave doesn't seem like this is the case not even close and this is one of the problems with um not one of the problems with

this case but you know first things first there we're talking about Peaches who was identified as one of the Gilgo I need say outliers but her name was already in there as you know a dough, a Jane Doe. We don't know who she is. Yeah, I think, yeah. Yeah. And there was a toddler, and it didn't fit the mix. It did not, the toddler did not fit into the idea of who these other women were that were identified as the Gilgo 4 and beyond that.

There was just not there, but geographically speaking, we're going to include them because of this. Now, there are not just four, five, or six Gilgo victims. When you actually look in the general vicinity, I think there's 11. There are that many that could be attributed to one killer, but it also could be that there's been more than one person using this area as a dumping ground. And this case might just prove part of that. Just to give you an idea, Peaches has been identified as Tanya Jackson, and baby dough has been identified as Tatiana Marie Dykes.

Tatiana was only two years old. Tanya, 26, and from Alabama. Tanya grew up in Alabama and ended up in the military. She, at the time of all of this, now backing up, her body was discovered in 1997, Tanya Jackson's body. and it wasn't all in one piece, Joe. And so I'm hoping that I'm hoping today you can enlighten us as to how is it from an investigation standpoint where you have somebody like Tanya and Tatiana. Their bodies are found in this area.

They're deceased. They're tough to identify. But because we don't have a name or a background or anything else, they just kind of get lumped together with the others. And of the Gilgo story, you know? And as I say that, I want to point one thing out, you know, the, um, one of the girls who was, uh, her name is escaping me right now. Her, her attorney has always been one of the guys out in the forefront, um, uh, as one of the Gilgo victims. And I don't think she is. I think she was, you know, she was out on a call, she was working in the sex trade.

And she was out there and we've got phone calls with her and she's leaving and running. running up and down the street, and her body is found, but it's nothing like the others. And anyway, I think that's just a really, really sad death that happened. I don't think she's part of the Gilgo murder spree here with Hewerman. No, in that particular case, actually, Joe took us to that location as well. Really? Yeah, where that whole progression took place. And it's literally right by the beach, kind of fascinating location.

The beach is immediately, you know, to your right, and then you've got this, I don't know, they'll call it a tidal basin. I look at it, and I would use the term probably a slew. It's got a lot of marsh grass in there. There's all these bushes. It's really thick. It's an area where this victim, that victim that you're referring to, was actually found, and her remains were skeletal. Okay. So there's really never been a cause of death that they've arrived at. You know, with her, we just got a deceased female skeleton.

Well, that's kind of obvious, right? Right. Deceased female skeleton. We have skeletonized remains of a lady that was found there. And also her clothes, some of her clothes, I believe were there. Shannon Gilbert. That's the name I was trying to think of is Shannon Gilbert. I don't mean any disrespect.

No, no, of course. Hey, man, listen, you need you need a play bill to keep up. With all of these, because there's so many, and that goes to the confusion, right? I think without Shannon Gilbert's family, I really think that without Shannon Gilbert's family, that the Gilgo story might have gone away. It was her family that kept bringing it back up. They kept going because they had the 911. There was so much they had, and they were just, and they believed she was part of that.

And I don't believe she was based on investigation. But without her, I don't think you have Heerman in jail. Well, the other thing that has kept, I think, that this case kind of has kept the investigators and the public and everybody else associated with it just wants to get answers. A lot of it that has kept things kind of handcuffed and fragmented. There's a lot of corruption up there, Dave. There were, yeah, oh, my Lord, you know,

some of the stories that we heard up in the Hamptons, you know, because I had no, I had not taken a look at the depth and breadth. You know, I cover cases from, well, you and I cover cases from all over America, all over the world okay um and when we got up into kind of the granular detail and i've been on these task force before all right when it comes to serial serial crimes right and particularly back in my day many times the left hand doesn't know what the right hand's doing right i think probably one of the best portrayals of this in media um is if you go and you watch the movie Zodiac, where you've got multiple police departments, and this is back in the 70s, where they're

working cases that might have some similarities. And I still don't, I still don't buy into that every one of those homicides is completely connected. I'm chasing rabbits here. But I'm just trying to make the point that with a task force, particularly if you add, it's multi-jurisdictional, you've got one group of people that are, let's just say, their morals are due. dubious at best, that throws such a wrench into an investigation, a series of investigations that are so very complex day. Because if you just look at the remains, you've got remains that are in various states of decay. You've got remains that have not just, they're not just, you're not just dealing with antimortem trauma. You're talking about post-mortem trauma because you've

got some dismemberment going on. So you've got all of these layers of complicated. And, you know, and then you throw it into this really wet water environment. Right. You know, so how much, it's not like you've got like, it's not like John Wayne Gacy, where you've got all of the bodies buried beneath the house, right? And you can go there and there's like that one concentration and you begin to work that. I'm not saying that was easy for those guys back in the 70s. However, I think you get the jest, or my drift as to where I'm going here. And that was, I'm glad you did because what we're dealing with today with Peaches and with, with Tanya and Tatiana, a mother and daughter, a 26-year-old mom, a military veteran and her two-year-old toddler, they were lumped together. Yeah. Unidentified, but still lumped as possibly part of this. And that's why I think of Shannon Gilbert, because I think without the investigation, without her family, none of the other stuff would have come to the forefront because there wouldn't have been.

any pressure. But because of Shannon Gilbert's family and the breaking of this case, it allows for the justification now to spend the money to identify these other remains and clear them, either get them as part of this or out of it. And thankfully, I looked over this case, thankfully, Joe, that the technology and the people that wield it, it's amazing. I mean, flat out amazing how they were able to identify Tanya Jackson and Tatiana. And by the way, identify not through them directly, indirectly. There was actually an ad in a paper in Mobile Alabama, Joe, when they were breaking it down. And I'm not kidding you.

When I tell you that they came back with a name, but it was somebody who had died before I was born. Wow. Think about that for a minute. Yeah. That's how, and that's where the science goes, that they're able to get this piece of genetic, you know, this DNA. And they're able to determine that this is related to this person that died in 1963. And they found it on a body in 1997. Yeah.

And that immediately I'm thinking, now I know why I didn't spend more time in math and science. because this blows my mind. I can't figure it out. I can't even, I can't digest it without, you know. Well, yeah, and it does become, it enters on to the exponential plane here of thinking, you know, because it is quite complex. However, I've got to tell you something, complexity in the world that we're living in now is not quite as daunting as it might have been in the past. particularly when it goes to our friends at Authron Laboratories. Many years ago, Dave, I got to tell you the story because I've told other people.

I just, I have to put it on this public forum, right now to give you an idea about how tattoos help or how they used to help even more. It seems like, you know, everyone has a tattoo now. They're not as sexy as they used to be necessarily. They're not unique, you know. But I had a case, Dave. You'll appreciate this. I had a case of a fellow who was a Native American.

And he had come to New Orleans with, and I'm not going to mention the motorcycle club. but it is one that is quite notorious had come to New Orleans and he was in the back of a pickup truck and he had been dropping acid and they were traveling down this thoroughfare and in the midst of he's standing up in the back of the in people witnessed this he's standing up in the back of the pickup truck and do you remember like those 1970s pickup trucks that had the four-wheel drives that had those gigantic roll bars on the back, you know, in the bed with the big fog lights. That truck had one. This rocket scientist decides to pitch himself over the side at 55 miles per hour.

Okay. Well, he doesn't pop up like a, you know, some kind of stunt role that you would have seen on the television show, Manix or something. Wow. Yeah. Boy, that's a reference from the past, right? Mike Connors. Yeah, Mike Connors, man. um well he's dead so we bring him in to do the autopsy and he is dressed and i'm not talking

about a weekend warrior biker here this guy is this guy's serious you know you can tell he's got dirty jeans on he's got the engineer boots on that you see you know the old engineer boots um and black t-shirts harley t-shirt what else right um and dave i took off his boots in the morgue as I'm undressing his body, take his socks off. And I noticed something on the dorsum of his right foot that will stay with me forever and ever. It was a tattoo. And the tattoo itself was shaped like a toe tag,

a full-sized toe tag. And he even had a string that had a hole, a hole that was part of the tattoo. and it involved a string, string went down, tied around his big toe with a bow. Somebody had done a lot. And what a painful place to get a tattoo right on top of your foot. And in the lines on the top of the, you know, on the faux toe tag tattooed on his foot, it had his full name, his date of birth, and in big letters below it, it said,

D-O-A. That's one of the ways we got that body identified, all right? My gosh. I want that tattoo. I might get that. That's brilliant. It is kind of brilliant, but yeah, I mean, I've seen it all with tattoos, but, you know, there was a guy used to work with a forensic pathologist who, at the time, he was regarded,

and I know people don't think this is a thing, but he was regarded at. as in the in the post-mortem world, in the forensic pathology world, as one of the leading experts of tattoos in our world. And the reason that's important is because of identification. Right. People don't understand that in the old days, if you were going to be a tattoo artist, and this is long before there were tattoo shops on every corner, you know,

you had to sit at the feet of a master, right? And they had, like, they have their own genealogies. It's like I trained under this person and this person and this person. And the guy, the pathologist that I'm referring to, it had actually gone to this guy that was considered a master that worked up in Baltimore. And he had a gigantic, disarticulated skeleton that was tattooed down one side of his leg from like his rib cage all the way down to his ankle. And this guy had to work on it forever and ever.

Wow. But this guy knew his way around tattoos. He could look at a tattoo and say, okay, this comes from this particular artist. This is the point of origin. And before we use things like DNA, we try to use anything we could to get bodies identified. But Dave, when we think about this case, yeah. Yeah. You would have used anything.

It was still at the cross section of using DNA. I mean, I'm sure that you were identifying certain things with DNA, but we're only, what, two and a half years after OJ. And that's when most of us learned our basic science on DNA. Yes. People of our generation anyway. outside of you, you know, normal people, but anyway. You give me far too much credit, my friend. So June 28, 1997, a man and his daughter out for a stroll in Hempstead Lake State Park in

Lakeview, New York, discover the remains. They don't discover an entire body. We're talking about a head, both arms, both legs below the knee, all gone. Severed, gone. The torso is found in a rubber made container along. with a red towel and a floral pillowcase. It's on the west side of Lake Drive. I'm going to assume since that identifier was included in everything I saw, that for those of you in that area of Lake View, New York, that means something. I know that oftentimes the west side of this or

that means something. So there you go. But they couldn't identify what they had. And so as they're investigating, they find this very unique tattoo. It's of a peach. And it's not just any peach. It's not just something stamped. It's an actual artist that has done some seriously good work. And in trying to identify the person, the woman who they found parts of, they run an ad. Detectives have to run an ad in a national tattoo magazine. they take a picture of the about and the way it was explained to me it was about two inch squared two inches two inches that's it and they take a picture of the tattoo it's a peach with a bite taken out of it some juice drops and they post this in this tattoo magazine nationwide and sure

enough a tattoo artist in Connecticut by the name of steve cullen breaks the case because not only does he say that's my work he remembers the person he remembers who they were with he remembers what they were talking about and what he was told and it was all of that information joseph scott morgan that the woman is in connecticut getting this tattoo she's a young black woman she's on the outs with her significant other they've had an argument so she's not in new york where she normally works and lives. She's in Connecticut with family. I mean, that's a lot of information from a tattoo guy.

Yeah, it is. And listen, that was not unusual. You could go like both of the offices that I worked in. We had a big book of unidentified flyers that would be processed. And you would see like certain police departments would send these things out. And you would get them periodically. Get them over, I think they called it what was. it um hang on it was a fax but telefax or whatever it was where you got these clearer images back

then and they would have and i know people have seen these they would have images of things like identifying marks you would see scars pictures of scars you say you'd see tattoos i'd even i've seen um dental demonstrations before like teeth that have certain caps or crowns that are unique posted on there and it's like it's almost like a um what's it called, you know, be on the lookout, kind of bolow for this individual if they come through your office. And I think that out of all the years that I work, I think that maybe we found two of those flyers that turned back, you know, to one, to a particular case that we were working. And it's not that it's not that they don't work. It's just that they were kind of taking a shotgun approach and, you know, pushing these things out.

But, you know, Dave, with that information, that is monumental because you can take whatever kind of biological data that you have remaining and you can begin to source it, right? You know, we think about, well, we want to try to retain this so that we can go back maybe in the future if technology provides a way where we can actually begin to understand who this person might be genetically. And that's kind of difficult because, you know, beforehand, you know, before we had, you know, before we had a database with sex offenders and that sort of thing, which is very specific, you know, it's like, okay, well, they're not on the list. You know, let's dismiss this. But now the world that we live in now is this huge matrix. You know, we've gone from zero to a thousand now miles per hour relative to what you can do with the slightest bit of bylaw. data. And then you couple that, you know, a few years later after these remains are found in this plastic container, which, by the way, the state park is unlike the other Gilgo Beach cases, the same at the beach. Now, I'm not saying it's a long ways from the beach. Right. Remember what I said earlier about geographic familiarity? Right. This is a place that's slightly inland, It's still on Long Island.

It's slightly inland. Okay. And it is a state park. And there is a pond there. Okay. Within the, the boundaries of the state park. And that's where this thing was found.

Okay. This tub containing her remains and this pillowcase and the, what was it? It was a pillowcase. Well, it was said it. There was a red towel blanket. And then there was the floral pillowcase. Right. I was kind of fascinating that, okay, if you're a criminal,

why would you leave something that is so specific? I mean, I was just kind of curious, a floral pillowcase. I wouldn't know what that means, but most of the women I've ever met or had a conversation with in my life that were born women, they would know it. They would recognize them. Oh, yeah, you get that at, you know, whatever store.

I mean, they know that stuff. Well, you look at just the floral pattern on that pillowcase, and if it's got a tag inside of it, that's something that can, in fact, be tracked down. And there are a lot of people out there that work in fabric, and textiles in forensics. They, that's, you know, that's their residential. You know, they make

their money doing those sorts of things. FBI's got an incredible database for that sort of thing. Yeah, it's mind-blowing when you think about it, and you think about those tags that are specific identifiers. And it seems like an odd thing to leave behind because when you think pill a case, now there have been times in my life where I have had a mess at the house. I'm thinking dogs right now or children throwing up,

and I'm going to grab the first thing. that I can put my hands on, if you go to linen closet, where the towels, they're all dirty. Oh, here's a pillowcase. I grab it and I clean up with that. I think the thing here is to try to understand perhaps what was the utility of the pillowcase. If it's floral and pattern, I can't imagine that that would be something that would be used in a hotel or a motel. You know, you would think they'd either be white or beige. They're not going to have a pattern to them. And then you go to this other item that's contained in there. And what's contained on within the fabric of these things as well is there not just potentially the victim's DNA is

there some kind of other DNA it's there that belongs to someone else you know because look she's been down for a while Dave and she's inside her the torso is inside of this container you're going to have a body that is greatly degraded and one of the things that you and I talk about many times is not only do you have blood that results as a result of either kind of seepage or maybe even trauma, but you also get decompositional fluid as well. And it's kind of complex. There's not a lot that you can derive from it many times. So, you know, the inquiry minds want to know. I'd want to know if there were any kind of stain patterns perhaps on the pill case in particular. It's harder to pick that up on a towel. But let's just say, for instance, if somebody had been shot for

instance. Or maybe the pillowcase was used to facilitate a suffocation. You know, who knows? Or maybe to kind of blind this person as they were being kidnapped as well. But why would the pill case be separated from the head? Because it's weird. We only have a torso. We do not have a head. We don't have any of the appendages, I think, below the knee, right? We're missing at this point in. Yeah, below the knee you're missing and you're missing the arms. head and here's the other part of this okay that that discovery is in june of 97 and it stops there until april 11th of 2011 that's when police discovered dismembered skeletal human remains inside a plastic bag near jones beach state park the victim was dubbed jane doe number three

you mentioned the numbers a little bit ago because they had so many things going on in this area it's just what a job uh in December 2016 peaches and jang down number three were positively identified through DNA analysis as being the same person now they didn't identify the person they merely had okay we know that peaches found in 97 this is the rest this is more of her which again now I'm I there are certain aspects to investigations that go beyond you know the normal reach and I think about this and I'm thinking there are people who are laying awake at night to this day because of what they've had to learn and tying those two together separated by 14 years and then add in the fact that now

we also have DNA analysis that led to the identification of peaches as the mother of baby dough. She was found wearing gold jewelry similar to that of her daughter. You've got a body with no head, no arms, no legs from the knees down, but you've got jewelry that ties peaches to baby dough found 14 years later. yikes what a tieback and look to you know to to jump ahead slightly we have these remains that are found and here's where the rub is i think what are the odds dave what are the odds that you're going to find disarticulated remains and we're talking these extremities, these missing extremities, and a baby that are geographically adjacent to some of these cases that are actually tied back to Hureman allegedly. You know, what are the odds?

You know, people think that, you know, Long Island is like, it's an island. It's time, no, it's not. It's kind of a vast area, you know, when you get out there. The idea that you would have. have remains that are connected, obviously, to the torso found in the Tupperware inland, you would find these remains immediately adjacent to the remains that have been tied back to the Gilgo homicides is absolutely mind-blood. You know, Dave, again, we're back on this topic of dismemberment, which I don't think that we'll ever get away from.

But there are multiple types of dismemberment. And I think that with Peaches, her case could either fall into one or two categories. There is a category that is actually referred to as defensive dismemberment. And what that means is that you have a human remain that is unmanageable. Okay, so you're going to take the human remains apart. And most of the time it's characterized by taking the head off, the arms, and the legs. And then you package separately, okay, because it makes the body manageable. Then there is kind of a, and that's called defensive dismemberment.

And there's a second one that is, arises from a type of sexual gratification. And it's referred to as offensive dismemberment. Now, there's like, I don't know, there's about six of these things that are out there. Wow. But with those remains, the remains are kind of sexualized. And, you know, I think back to the case. Again, you know, I know I talk about it a lot, but the mother up in the mother up. the mother up in Seattle that was dismembered by the tender date and she was deposited in

multiple trash trash receptacles thinking about that and I still to this day believe that that was a sexualized dismemberment you know that took place in that case I think of the blank dahlia when you think about that type of dismemberment where she was killed and her body was positioned in such a way to cause the most shock which it did you know what that's referred to as that's called a communication dismemberment. And let me give you an example of that. And I think that there's probably some sexualization with that. But that's if you think about if you've ever seen these images and I hope that you haven't exposed yourself to it, I've had to look at them.

But these images quite famously down in Mexico where they will almost truss up a human being, tie them off of a bridge. And you might have several of them hanging in one place and the heads are gone. that's sending a message that's called communication dismemberment okay so you've got these these different little nuanced things i hate you using that term yeah but um these kind of and i don't know you know you look at you look at the case with with peaches um her body is the body that was uh uh defiled if you will uh post mortum all right right uh because you're talking about the abuse of a corpse at this point in time. But yet, this little angel, seemingly, she's intact and she is found adjacent, oh, God,

this is so horrible. As it turns out, she's found adjacent to her mother's appendages, okay, along with these other bodies. And again, that's, you know, it's just one of these weird little twists that comes along every now and then i think october 8th 2020 the mobile alabama police department announced on its official facebook page that the fbi was seeking relatives and friends of elijah lige howell or howard who was alive between 1927 and 1963 all right a guy that lived in pritchard alabama with his wife, Kerry, but died in Mobile, Alabama in 1963, while living with Ms. Lilly May Wiggins Packer. The FBI has been able to break this guy's entire life down. But again,

they put this out in 2022, Joe. At that point, he'd already been dead. 50 years? Yeah. I mean, 60 years. Yeah. So that's, that I guess is what is the most shocking to me that they're, looking for relatives of a man that died before I was born, that's the part that this investigation goes that deep. Yeah, let me put it to you this way. Do you think they were on the scent at that point in time? Yeah, buddy. This was not a shot in the dark.

That's the thing. It's like they knew. Okay, we've got this. We've just got to tie the rest of it together, you know? Yeah. It's, you know what, with the Coburger thing, where they knew that the DNA, that they found on that the knife

sheath button snap yeah yeah the button snap that this that that didn't belong to the son you know this is they didn't tie it directly to Coburger they taught it to his dad

and then they had to go and get Coburger's own stuff so it's that's the part that gets me you know so befuddled sometimes And that's where this one comes in. Again, you're talking about we want the relatives of somebody that was dead in 1963 to help us solve a crime that didn't happen until 1997 and we didn't even have an idea about it until 2022. Again, so that's the part that gets me from the science, I guess. Yeah, it does.

And we have to think about, you know, as it turns out, when the identifications are done, both. on Tanya and Tatiana, you know, once they got the genetics back, and did you know, Dave, that they were able to determine that Tatiana had actually been born March 17, 1995 in Texas. Well, guess what, guess what Mama was doing in 1995? That was her last year of enlistment in the Army, and she was stationed in Texas at that particular time. She had done hitches, I think, in Georgia and South Carolina during her time period there. So you get that tied back. I found an article on, and I recommend anybody particularly veterans out there.

If you don't read military.com, you're doing yourself a disservice. You need to read it. They did a great write-up on this case because, you know, this victim, she is an Army veteran. And, you know, they kind of did a deep dive there. So a big shout out to them. But, you know, interestingly enough, Tatiana was born in Texas. And Dave, the most revelatory moment in this whole case actually leads us back to Texas and back to our friends at Othram in the Woodlands in Texas, just north of Houston. And they were able to put names not just with one, but with two now, Dave.

it's again Joe I I'm dumbfounded by what what they're capable of doing now because now because of again now going back to Gilgo because the investigation that was going on up there trying to eliminate or put in the pot you know to we're bringing this we've got a mom and daughter team here we got to identify them do they belong in this group or not not. They do not. And after they get identifications done, they're able to track this down to a man, Andrew Dykes, and he's in Florida. Andrew Dykes is actually the biological father of Tatiana Marie Dykes, the two-year-old little girl found in 2011 the daughter of Tanya Jackson. You think about this, and Dykes, I think that when Tanya went missing, I think that Dykes was roughly in his 30s. Yeah.

Well, I'm happy to say at this point in time, Dykes is now in custody. That's one of the reasons, you know, we wanted to present this case today. He's now in custody. He's waiting to be extradited back up to New York. because they've tied this in, and you really said it. I mean, you hit it right on the head. This is going to be a domestic-related event. There's no doubt in my former military mind about this.

I think that that is going to be the case, and we still don't have all of the pieces yet. We don't know everything. We still don't have cause of death at this point in time, And I don't know that we necessarily ever will because once the defense attorneys get involved in this, if this guy pleads not guilty, I think that that could be a gigantic mystery, you know, that leads who knows where. But I can tell you this. One of the biggest mysteries of all has been solved because now, just like I always say, If you want answers, find out who the dead are, because that bit of data will lead you back to where you need to be.

And if you're really interested, I mean, truly, truly interested, you know, a lot of people say they want to help. I urge each and every person within the sound of my voice to reach out to our friends at Othrum, and this is how you do it. you go to dna solves.com and they have an entire list of cases that they are currently working that could be cases that you feel some kind of affinity for maybe geographically you're located near where one of these remains were found you never know one of the people that is unidentified could possibly be somebody that you know or somebody that some of the relatives might live in proximity to you. If you want to help out with this, all you got to do is check out DNA solves.

Because if you do that, they offer you an opportunity, give as much as you can. They're not asking for huge chunks of money. It'd be great if you had some, but just, you know, a few bucks to push toward a specific case and you can do that, I think in the words of retired homicide detective, Lieutenant Vernon Geberth, he has an opening in his book called Practical Homicide Investigations, and it's this little stamp that's inside of it. And anybody that's ever been through any training and death investigation has read this book, it's very simple.

It says, we do God's work. And that's the case here. You want to help out? You want to help out? Think about it. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan. And this is Body Bags. This is an I-Heart podcast.

Guaranteed human.