Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Locked in and Burned -The Terrible Death of Corrine Abosamra

Episode Date: January 26, 2025

A fire was reported November 7th, 2024,  at Broadmoor Self-Storage in Kentwood, Michigan.  Firefighters cut the lock off unit 454, and discovered the body of Corinne Abosamra. Morgan Wingeier rented a storage unit at Broadmoor Self-Storage and allowed Corinne Abosamra to live in the unit.  On the day of the fire, Wingeier left Abosamra in the unit and locked it with a pad lock on the outside. Joseph Scott Morgan and Dave Mack discuss what is known so far about the death of Abosamra and look closely at the evidence to see if it leads to accident or murder.   Transcribe Highlights 00:00.41 Introduction 02:00.28 Renting a Storage Unit 04:54.75 At a fire scene, everything looks the same 09:06.27 Would someone rent a storage unit to render down a body 14:34.80 Finding charred remains in the storage unit 19:53.52 Did Morgan Wingeier forget she locked Abosamra in storage unit 24:28.50 Victim was in the unit for 10 hours before fire was seen 29:07.64 Wingeier didn't return to the storage unit 34:10.35 Heat coming off a fire, no escape 39:47.36 ConclusionSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Body Bags with Joseph Scott Moore. Over the course of my career as a death investigator, I was part of several national committees. I had to travel all over the country, various meetings and that sort of thing. And one of my fondest memories was going to Michigan and teaching a group of investigators there the national standards for medical legal death investigation. And the spot chosen for that instruction was a place that became one of my favorite towns certainly up north and that's Grand Rapids, Michigan. I gotta tell you if you've never been there it is a lovely lovely place. I didn't expect it and during that period of time I

appreciated first off how kind the people were and also how very cold it was at night because I was up there in November. Wound up going salmon fishing while I was there and almost drowned. But that aside, I loved that location and I loved that place. But today, I've got a case I want to present to you all that is, at least in my way of thinking, it's one of the most horrible ways that a person could die. It takes place just south of Grand Rapids in the town of Kentwood, Michigan. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is Body Bags. Over the course of our marriage, Dave, Kim and I have rented multiple storage units over this period of time. They are a necessary evil, I think.

Our house got destroyed by a tornado, and we salvaged everything that we could and put it into storage. And we've had to use them before as well because we just can't seem to get rid of junk many times. And they certainly serve a purpose. It's like when you go to one after you've rented it, every time you open the door to one of these places, you don't know what you're going to find inside. Particularly as it applies to your property being degraded in there. Maybe there was a leak, which we've had happen before. Or maybe you smell something bad in there, like a dead animal, which we have found rats before. It's just, there's something about them that puts me off. And I think a lot of it has to do with the labor that's involved.

But I got to tell you, Dave, when you go to a storage unit, one of the things you don't expect to find is a dead person. And that's essentially what our case revolves around today. This story of the charred remains, that's the headline, charred remains of woman found in padlock storage unit gutted by fire. My first thought, Joe, was how did you get in there to get padlocked in for starters? Second, why didn't you call for anybody, you know, and then down the list. And it's only after reading this and finding out that this, I don't know if it was a, you know, you mentioned Nancy says intent can be formed in the blink of an eye. Yeah, yeah.

I don't know what the intent was here. Was the intent to lock this person in there and cause her death? I don't know. And they're not really spilling the beans at this point. This case is fresh. I mean, it is a new case. And it caught my eye because the proximity to Grand Rapids and the bizarre nature of it. And that's why I wanted, because I think that there's a lot that we can

kind of discuss relative to the forensics here. But, you know, when we go out to assess an environment, first off, fire environments or the remnant thereof, um, you never know what you're going to find. I can't tell you how many times I've had friends. This has only happened to me once, but I've had colleagues that have actually discovered other bodies that they did not expect. One of the reasons is, is that when you walk into a fire scene, a lot of the items that are in there all look the same. Because, you know, you're talking about fire, which is this kind of living, breathing entity

that's seeking to continue. It's what fire is defined as an unadhibited chemical reaction that means that there's nothing that's going to if if anything disrupts it there's like four components that you're looking for with fire uh in order to make it sustainable if any of those four points along continuum get disrupted in any way then the fire is, you know, it's not just going to simply burn itself out. You have to have a starter, which is a heat source. You have to have fuel. And then you have to have a free supply of oxygen. Okay.

So that's more like three points along continuum. But you have to have all of those elements to come into place to sustain fire. And that's one of the things we look at. And the fuel for something like this is not necessarily, I know that many people think, well, gasoline or some type of petroleum agent is fuel. No, it's not. It's a starter or it's an accelerant because, you know, when you burn up gasoline, when you use that as an accelerant, it burns up rather quickly, particularly in the gaseous form. But what you're looking at as far as sustainable fuel, I mean, think about the stuff that you've if you're like anything like we were when we were really young. You didn't have handmade carved mahogany furniture. You had stuff made out of press board, really bad fabrics on the coverings.

Then you had pictures and all kinds of other stuff, old clothes, things like that. And then to boot, you've got cardboard boxes. You can't go to U-Haul or even to a storage unit without them trying to sell you boxes. Actually, you know what? Going and moving. You go to the grocery store out in the back, get their boxes. Oh, absolutely. And so you think about a sustainable fuel source, cardboard boxes, those corrugated boxes are one of the best around.

And even like if you have – because we'll store stuff in plastic as well. So, you know, you've got those clip-on lids. Well, what is plastic made out of? It's a petroleum-based product. So, once those things ignite and it begins to change that that kind of chemical change begins as you introduce heat to the substance that makes up those little – it becomes a sustainable fuel source. After a while, you just have to attain enough heat in order to facilitate that. But what about a rental unit that has limited oxygen? There's not a lot of wind blowing through.

They're pretty – you know, they're tight. They've got doors on them in this case, padlock door, but there's oftentimes not very much space inside those things. Yeah. And you begin to think about, and this is something that many people don't think about. Let's see, how can I put this? If you, let's just say that, let's just say that you and I sit down, we go and we get inside of a two-man submarine. Okay. Okay.

In that submarine. Let me out. I'm already stuck. I can't handle it. I couldn't take it. Well, you and I would be displacing oxygen in there. Right. I couldn't take it. Well, you and I would be displacing oxygen in there. So for us introducing the mass of our bodies into that environment, then we're displacing that oxygen that would

otherwise be there. So if you've got all of these items and you don't have free-flowing air through there, you're going to have a limited amount of oxygen contained in that space. And so you begin to think about, well, if there's a victim in here, were they breathing at the time the fire initiated? Or is this something where perhaps they had died prior to and someone decided to foolishly try to incinerate the body in there? That's why, you know, like one of the things you look at with this, you're thinking, geez, Louise, is it, would somebody use a storage unit in order to render down a body?

I just I don't with fire. I don't know. It seems like it'd be rather glaring to me if you were like the watchman out there, you know, keeping keeping tabs on the thing. All right. Well, from a timeline standpoint, we know that Morgan Wingire was at the storage unit with her mother. They're seen on surveillance video at 1236 p.m. We're talking November 7th now. November 7th in Michigan, in this particular area of Michigan, is it going to be really cold?

Yes. Okay. At night in particular, and we're talking about night here. And keep in mind, we're Alabama boys, too. So their perception of cold might not be the same as ours. But when it gets down to it, if the storage unit for her, for Morgan. Morgan and her mother are seen at the storage unit at 1236 p.m., so just afternoon. They then, on surveillance video, you can see Morgan Wingire actually put a padlock on the door and lock it. They then leave. At 8.30 that night on surveillance video, smoke is seen coming out from the storage

unit. I don't know to what level because it's dark, but enough that it can be seen on surveillance video. Just after 9 p.m., flames are seen coming out of the storage units, and these are several units sitting side by side. At just around 11 p.m., police and fire show up to the fire, which has now been going on

for at least an hour and a half, two hours, at least two and a half hours because of when the smoke was first seen. Yeah. And the firefighters are merely being called out to a structure fire. They have no idea. Got a storage unit on fire. That's all we got. Yeah, exactly.

Exactly. But the thing is, is that they didn't know until they opened the door. And I wonder how this goes on, Joe, because they get there and they see the storage units. They're not all padlocked from the outside. Now, I'm going to guess that you and I both have rented storage units. And if you put your stuff in there, you do put a lock on it. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you definitely do. And there are some that have the, I've seen some that have like, it's not really a deadbolt, but there's like an external lock that comes, the thing comes equipped with.

Right. Which I would never trust in a million years if I've got valuables in there. I'm going to buy the top-of-the-line lock. Yep. Which can still be defeated pretty easily with a pair of bolt cutters. Which it appears is what the fire service used to gain access. A simple padlock was used on the door. Yeah, they had to get in there, and they had to cut that lock in order to gain access to it. Now, when they opened this door, Joe, because other units were on fire, I'm going to assume,

it's not just one little place. Right. We know it's been burning for two and a half hours based on surveillance video, at least two and a half hours. Yep. But we don't know the actual starting point yet. We don't know, did it start in the padlock room or did it start in one of the other units? The only thing we do know is that at 1236 p.m.,

Morgan Wingire and her mother were outside that unit number 454 when Morgan actually put a padlock on the door and spun it to lock the door. Firemen show up, they cut the padlock off and get in the door. And what do they find, Joseph Scott Morgan? Well, they find a young woman's body that is in amongst the burned debris in this environment. And she's deceased, you know, at this point in time, there's no saving her or anything like this.

And immediately, you know, I think that, first off, anytime, well, let me back up. Anytime there's a structure fire, you're going to have a fire marshal that's going to come out and probably a fire investigator. And they're going to say. Now, I didn't know that. Wait, anytime there's a building, a structure that is on fire, they actually begin an investigation. Is that because of arson? Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, and nothing's, you know, look, the firefighters and God bless them.

They've saved my life before. I love firefighters. I love working with them. And I've said that plainly many times over the years. They're not there to assess a scene other than trying to get a fire knocked down and make it safe. And once they back out, as it said, once all the flames have been knocked down and they've got the thing secured, that's when searches begin. Now, firefighters do find bodies.

Okay. So if they're in there and they're walking around, they've got the big, powerful lights on. They've got respirators on. Because can you imagine the amount of smoke inside this thing? And it would have just come rolling out on them. I'm amazed by the fact that they were able to appreciate her body in that environment. But once you find that body like that, particularly in this case, and they have subdued the fire to the point they've knocked it down, there's no more flame, they're going to back out and they're going to secure this thing and they're going to call an

arson investigator. They're going to call the police. And in this case, what they found was unimaginable. Well, I think it's kind of obvious, Dave. You can't lock yourself into a structure with a padlock. They've already got CCTV of this young woman locking it. What fascinates me about this is that Wingmire's mother was physically there. How do you not have an awareness that there's somebody in there? You know what I'm saying? That's kind of.

Isn't that odd that the story that we've been told is that Morgan Wingmire, her mother rented the storage unit for her and she was allowing corinne oba samra to stay in the unit i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say this is not an apartment. This is a storage unit. And Morgan Wingire and Corinne Obasamra, according to Morgan's mother, had been in a relationship previously. And this is all coming from Morgan's mother. Morgan Wingire has not spoken out about this. We have no quotes from her. She's in jail right now.

We'll tell you why. But it's her mother that gives us the quotes joe yeah um about them being in a relationship and that she claimed that corinne obasamra had been homeless homeless person i'm gonna be straight up with you man uh corinne obasamra highly educated woman very much At 33 years old, she's got her degrees. She's got her career. She's going places. So I'm going to follow down a path here, and I'm going to suggest something that is unpopular. But Morgan Wingire had been arrested last year, well, 2023, on methamphetamine charges.

Okay. Based on the situation, Morgan Wingire is hiding Corrine Obasamra in that storage unit from her mother, from Morgan's mother. Wow. I don't know. I mean, this is all speculative on my part you know so what what would be the motivation behind a grown woman hiding another grown woman in a storage unit unless you were trying to i don't know perhaps know, knock down any kind of suspicion on the mother's part that they were still involved in a relationship. Right. The padlock came from there at the survey at the unit.

And the mother says, you know, because it's rented in the mother's name and her mother insists you're not going to put a lock on that. Put a lock on that storage unit. That's when Morgan put the lock on that storage unit that's when morgan put the lock on the storage unit that's when she locked that padlock on at 12 36 p.m it was because her mother rented the unit her mother said put a lock on that yeah and we're talking dude we're talking hours afterwards buddy think about it joe 1236, they're at the unit. The smoke is seen at 830 on surveillance. At nine, flames are seen. At 11, cops and fire show up.

But Morgan Wingire, Mark, I mean, Morgan Wingire never shows back up. Police go looking for her and don't find her until the next day at 1130 a.m. in a hotel. She said she had no plans to be away from the unit that long. She just got tied up with doing some errands. Well, at 23 hours, she left that woman in that padlocked storage unit, Joe, for 23 hours without anything. And by the way, she wasn't headed back over to the unit when police found her police found her in a hotel room what would be the motivation for you to take up at least temporary residency in in a motel somewhere um and so to the point where you're adjunct to a fire that you were last known, your last known whereabouts was going to be at that fire locking the door.

And all of a sudden you come up registered at a motel. Um, and look, I mean, why, why are you not going back to your mother's house? Why, why are you in going back to your mother's house? Why are you? And so many questions come about here. And I begin to think, was this purposed? You know, were you just being mean? I hate to reduce it down to that. Were you just? Because, you know, I will go ahead and give this bit away.

She has been charged, Dave, with false imprisonment. Now, if you say false imprisonment, you know, maybe angels dancing on the head of the pen here. But you begin to think, well, gee whiz, was she actually imprisoning her to hold her? Or did she just create the environment where it's legitimate? She forgot that she was in there. How do you forget another human being that you, according to the mother, that you have been involved in an intimate relationship with? How do you forget that person that you locked them in there?

I don't I don't understand it. Well, you know what? Sometimes and I'm just going to I'm just going to speculate that sometimes people who use drugs lose track of time, especially when they use drugs like methamphetamine. They tend to lose track of time. I'm not suggesting for a minute that Morgan Wingire went out on a drug binge and ended up in a hotel when police found her to tell her that her storage unit was burned up with a person inside. And they have her on surveillance video padlocking the door by the way corinne obasamra was left inside that storage unit joe with nothing no food no water no light

and no phone no means of communication to call for help or anything else yeah who who in the world nowadays i know there are people don't get me wrong, but who doesn't have at least a burner phone with them? And we're talking about a lady that is, by all accounts, is highly educated, has been successful. You listen to her family talk about her and she's been involved in things like public service, you know, like working with people, outreach, those sorts of things. She's got this kind of bubbly personality. And you think about, well, what kind of detour did she take in her life that would wind up with her inside of a non-heated, non-electrified storage unit where she doesn't have access to heat. She's just kind of cast aside and then locked down.

And then suddenly, mysteriously, a fire begins. you know david fire is such a mystery we've covered we've covered on body bags we've covered some fire cases in the past um but you know fire is such a mystery. The most important thing, I think, for fire investigators and death investigators is to try to determine two things. First off, the source of the heat. Remember, I talked about the uninhibited chemical chain reaction of a fire. Is it sustainable? And adjacent to that is going to be point of origin. Where did this thing start? Because you have to wonder, did it start in the middle of the floor?

I don't know about you, but Dave, correct me if I'm wrong, storage units are commonly built on concrete slabs, aren't they? The ones I've rented have been, yes. Yeah, and bolted to the ground, the support beams and everything, or those girders are like they're driven into the ground with bolts and held in place. It's not like you're going to dig a hole, dig a fire pit, and create a fire. And even if you did, what are you going to use as fuel in there? And, you know, I think that's why there is some mystery surrounding this, because so far, we haven't been told that the fire began in that unit. We were only told that

fire department officials had to cut the padlock off of it to get inside. And, you know, we can assume that that's where the fire began. We can assume because they were knocking it down everywhere else, but they still had a problem in that unit. We can assume those things, but we don't know that for a fact. That's why I was asking you about oxygen in a room and how much there, because you're in a confined area that's's usually a box 12 by 14 or whatever and it usually has stuff in it you know let's just say for the sake of all that's good and human in this world that here this poor woman is in being hidden in a storage unit

with nothing and maybe she's got a lighter in her pocket and maybe she's trying to light she's cold she's hungry she's thirsty maybe she's trying to just burn you know something to stay warm trying to burn some papers or clothes i don't know but at what point do we look at this and say she was in there for at least 10 hours before the fire was seen. You know, what a what a hopeless feeling that would be, you know, no matter no matter how much you rattle or bang on that door, nobody's coming to your rescue. The thing is locked externally and there's not a latch. I don't think I'm sure that people out there will correct me, but to the best of my knowledge, it's not an internal latch.

And even if there was, it's secure from the outside. So how hopeless would that be? And listen, this is the other thing, too. We're talking about November. So in the middle of the day, this metallic box that you've got all your stuff stored in, you're going to have some radiant heating that's in there. But, brother, as that sun begins to dip down up there in Michigan, you're going to feel that chill. And can you imagine, let's just say for the sake of argument, that she is in fact seated on that concrete floor, how cold that is.

And it's one of those, if you've ever sat on like really cold stone like that for a protracted period of time, you know how people say I can feel the cold in my bones. That's the way it feels. It just kind of travels up throughout your body. And, you know, for, I don't know what she had that she could have wrapped herself in, you know, did she have a blanket even, you know, one of the basic necessities of life, uh, warmth, heat, protection, coverage, um, or any other clothes that were in there that she could have put on just to, you know, try to salvage any kind of heat that her little body was generating in that environment? But we do have a clue here, Dave. There was a comment that firefighters made in regards to this, and I found this kind of compelling, Dave. They didn't say that her body was found.

They said that her charred remains were found. And that's different because I've worked a lot of cases over the years where people did in fact die of smoke inhalation. You know, the old adage about how many times have we seen the thing? We even learned it when we were kids. If there's a fire in the room, you get on the floor and you crawl, right? You crawl because there's still breathable. Yeah, there's still breathable oxygen down there.

But you do that in order to escape. Where are you going to escape to? Can you imagine the panic that would set in? Let's just say that she did, in fact, start a fire in there just for her own comfort. Well, where are you going to go to escape it? And the place is not lighted. She can't see what's around there. There might have been a lot of flammable items that were in there. But we do know that she's sequestered in this area against her will because she can't leave. I can't imagine anybody in their right mind saying, will you please get the padlock and lock me up inside of the storage unit and don't come back and check on me?

And by the way, don't give me any means to communicate with anybody out there. You know, it's just it it's it's mind boggling when you think about it. I actually went back over this story multiple times and looked through multiple sources and because I kept thinking I'm missing something here. I am missing something. And in reality, the you have to make it. No, you don't have to. But if you make a couple of assumptions and you can get there, it's explainable as to what happened. Now, on its surface, just looking at it as just two Joe blows, you have a person who

my mom rented this unit for me and I'm hiding a friend in there, but I don't want my mom to find out. And I don't know how mom doesn't know, but she apparently doesn't know that Corinne Obasamra is staying inside the storage unit. And as they're getting ready to pull away that day, Morgan Wingire's mother says, hey, why is that not locked? Lock that up. That's my stuff and lock it up. So she does. Now, her intention. I'm going to come back in a couple hours. You know, I'm going to lock it now, but I'm coming back. She knows she, according to Morgan Wingauer herself, she told police, she knew that Corinne Abbasamra had no phone, no food, no nothing. She knew that when she left her there, she didn't plan on leaving her there for a long time. She planned

on coming back, but you know what? She didn't come back and she didn't come back because I think she was probably. The only thing that explains it, Joe, is she was using drugs and was not coming back because of that, because she was high now. Or she was she was cruel beyond measure. If she did this intentionally and willfully, she locked somebody in there and then just didn't come back. Because I got to say this, it's not like this woman was only locked in there for 10 hours. Back up and regroup and realize the person that put the padlock on there wasn't back there for 23 hours. OK, she didn't. It wasn't 10 hours. In her mind's eye, it had been 23 hours when police found her at the hotel and she still wasn't on her way back to the storage

unit so if that was her intent to lock that girl up and let her die mission accomplished well i think that we have some clues here considering how she was charged because they did in fact charge her i believe dave uh correct me if I'm wrong, with involuntary manslaughter. They did. For right now. Because they haven't released a lot of information in regards to the status of this poor woman's body. And here's another bit. They don't know what the origin of this fire was.

I was hoping you did. I don't know what the origin of this fire was. I was hoping you did. In my notes, ask Joe about the origin of the fire because I can't find it anywhere and they're not saying. Well, the origin most of the time is going to be determined. You've got two ways to frame origin. For most laymen, you'll say the origin is whatever started the fire. Okay. How did it originate? But for us, origin in forensics is more of a spatial assessment. Okay. Like origin is where, you know, like your country of origin, your place of origin. So where did it start? How do we determine that? Most of the time, you're going to determine that based upon the degree of damage in a location. So it's

relatively simple. The more damage you have in a location, that means that the fire is burned there the longest and perhaps more intensely. Like if you start a fire if you've got a i don't know a 16 by 20 room i don't know if that makes sense or not but anyway you start a fire over in the corner of a room with drywall you know gypsum you know made out of that maybe you stack some racks there you put a little gasoline on you start it well i'm not saying that that fire can't leap and get in behind the walls because they do get up in the ceiling burn their way around but the most damage that's going to be done is where those racks were well here's here's the rub if you will um

if this is on a concrete surface and she started in the middle of the room, are they going to be able to tell what the actual point of origin was? Was it over in a corner? Because concrete doesn't necessarily – it'll be, you know, kind of scorched, scored, if you will. But it's not going to – it's not like wood that's going to become brittle and fall apart. Well, if it's right there on the floor, this could make this a bit more of a heavy lift for the forensics people after they get in there. The other thing I want to know, well, I guess the big ask is,

how did the mother not know that there was a living human being inside of there? And that goes to the next question. Was she in fact living? Okay. So at autopsy, one of the first things you're going to look for is going to be smoke inhalation. Did she inhalate or breathe in, inhale the debris that's burning up around her? Or is there no evidence of that where you don't have any of the soot, as we refer to it, into the airway, into the lungs, into the nares,

the nose, the sinuses? Is it absent any kind of damage? You can actually, you know, when you do a dissection on a throat, on the neck, the elements of the neck, when you do a dissection on a throat, on the neck, the elements of the neck, and you look into the trachea, I don't, this is one of the most horrible things to me, by the way, Dave. Did you know that when we open the neck, we'll cut right down through the center of it, through the airway. And if an individual has been exposed to superheated air,

there are focal areas inside of the airway where it was burning. Just grab hold of that just for a second. You can see color changes that are like, oh, my God, this person. And if we've ever been, if you've ever been around a fire, like an outdoor fire perhaps, and a bonfire, and you're too close to it, it's one thing you feel the heat coming off, but if you take a breath in, you can feel the heat that you're taking on board. Just imagine you can't escape from the bonfire. There's nowhere to run. You're right there. Everything is burning up around you. So my big question from a forensics perspective is, was she alive at the time that the fire was going on? Because it begs this question, how could the mother not have an awareness that this person

was in there? were they just quiet? Had something else happened to them beforehand? And secondly, I want to know what exactly was her cause of death. If it's not smoke inhalation, were there other injuries sustained? And that opens up an entire myriad of problems that you're faced with fires because if you're talking about a bullet hole, somebody's been shot, you can still see within the cranial vault, if you will, you'll see this kind of lead snowstorm that's in there where the projectile particulated and kind of spread out through there. You can still see that. Some fires get so hot though. I've had cases where fires have gotten so hot. First off, you have heat fractures to bone as well as the skull. I've opened up skulls before where brains were liquefied because of the heat.

It's almost like the brain boiled inside of the skull. So those types of things do happen. It's hard to take the measure of it, isn't it? So there's a lot more unanswered questions that need to be asked. I think that it's possible that if they see anything that is other than as advertised, as I say many times, they can upcharge her more than likely, Dave, on this. It wouldn't just simply be involuntary manslaughter. If they find something else is going on with her, then they can certainly, I think, probably make those charges a bit more robust. Do you think that?

Yeah, I you've opened my eyes to a lot of the things that I didn't realize were possible in figuring out. So I went back to make sure that it wasn't smoke inhalation that, you know, what did they find? What did fire and police find? And they found the charred remains of Corinne Albasamra. And that's what we know. And then we know that Morgan Wingire put the padlock on the door at 1236 p.m. and was gone. They didn't even find her for 23 hours and when they did she was at a hotel she was not at the unit the unit burned that day so i'm looking at it from the person who put the lock on she didn't come back she said she planned to come back but she didn't so what was it did you really want to just were you killing this person by putting and then you mentioned it was she killed before this happened and a fire started in another unit and came into that unit?

That's a possibility, right? Yeah, it is. Wow. You brought back a memory when you said, was there an intent to kill her? like a almost a passive form of homicide instead of kind of a proactive like i'm going to not i yeah but i'm going to take a weapon and do away with somebody it's almost like passively you know well you know and that goes to this idea of neglect uh which we see you know that comes up in other cases but this is on a different level because you're, whether you're drug addled or not, I don't know what her status is, but you're subjecting this woman, first off, to just sheer panic.

Right. Because I don't know about you. I don't do good in small, dark spaces. I'm not saying the storage unit is small by any means. However, can you imagine bumping around in the dark you don't have any source of light you have no idea what's in there I mean boxes and just debris

even worse Joe if it was nothing if there was nothing in there yeah all you're doing is walking around a cell that you can't see yeah I know and there's no source of. I've been every storage unit I've had has had, I think, some light switch in it. Now, I've had one that didn't. And I've had them that don't have power sources either. I guess for good reason, you know, where you can't plug in something in there. I've had other ones and you get what you get. You know, if you upcharge, you know, they'll upcharge you for it. You know, and certainly, you know, you have the ones that are climate, you know, they always use climate controlled storage units, you know. I got one set up from the dirt barn in my neighbor's backyard, you know, cheapest one I could find.

That's where my stuff was packed. Yeah, exactly. And so you consider all of that. I think the big thing here is, was there intent to do harm to this poor woman? And we can't say at this point in time if her intention was just to leave her in there forever and ever. Amen. We do know that this poor woman was locked in a storage unit and abandoned for hours upon hours until mysteriously a fire starts. There's going to be more to follow in this case. But till then, I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is Body Packs. This is an iHeart Podcast. is Body Packs.