Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Missy Bevers Murderer Caught on Tape - Why is Murder Unsolved

Episode Date: June 2, 2024

Missy Bevers was murdered inside a church before 5 a.m. while she was preparing for her morning fitness class. Her body is found by a student and Missy is pronounced dead at the scene. On this episode of Body Bags, Joseph Scott Morgan will discuss the possible weapons used to kill Missy Bevers and Dave Mack will dig into the possible suspects in an unsolved murder where the main suspect is caught on camera wearing a police swat kit and walking the halls of the church with an unusual gait, waiting for Missy to arrive.    Transcript Highlights  00:00:24 Introducing Missy Bevers  00:01:51 Discussion of unsolved murder  00:04:12 Talk about Camp Gladiator  00:08:38 Discussion of murderer seen on video  00:12:28 Discussion of odd gait  00:17:13 Talk about suspect, man or woman?  00:21:13 Discussion of SWAT disguise  00:26:09 Talk about new kit  00:30:13 Discussion of long hammer as a weapon  00:34:31 Discussion of injuries matching weapon  00:39:05 Talk about coverage of case in media  00:43:20 Discussion of no gun belt  00:46:44.Conclusion    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. I've worked out throughout my life for any number of reasons, either, you know, in sports or military, or just to try to stay in shape or get back in shape. And it's hard to stay the course. I'm sure that y'all know this. Everybody knows this. It's hard some days just to get out and take a walk. I've always been fascinated by people that have a level of commitment where they will get up at 4 a.m. You know, even in the Army, we didn't get up until I think 4.45. To get up or show up at 4 a.m., that means that you would have had to

started prepping, you know, at 3.50 maybe, if you're going to throw in your workout clothes, and then to lead, to show up motivated. That's the thing about it. To show up motivated, to drive people, to show up motivated. That's the thing about it, to show up motivated, to drive people, to get in shape. And not just that, but call this program that you're involved in, Camp Gladiator. Today, I want to discuss one of the most baffling cases that has come down the pike in a long, long time. I've been covering it for years. It's the

first time I've ever done a Body Bags on it. We're going to talk about, at least to this time, the unsolved homicide of Missy Beavers. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is Body Packs. Joe let me jump in real quick. Missy Beaver's case exploded in 2016 because one it happened in a church when she was all alone before 5 a.m. but two because police released surveillance video of the person they believe committed the murder in the minutes before the murder took place. We see a person walking throughout the church in Midlothian, Texas, wearing a police SWAT outfit, including a helmet and a vest that says police. On top of that, this video shows that the person has an unusual walk, an unusual gait. And police released the surveillance video for everybody to see it, expecting somebody to go, I know who that is.

That's how unique the walk is. that's why this story went viral it's still not solved eight years later that's why we're digging into the story today now joe she was there as you mentioned to lead a workout and i'm kind of curious a lot of us had to do chores when we were kids do you look at working out as entertainment or do you look at working out as a chore this this to me is a chore i mean god god bless miss missy beavers and all those people that that would come and where i'm sure she she impacted people's lives or that we've heard this over and over and over again and dave look i'm going to just throw this out there just to begin this conversation. Given everything that she did to help other people relative to their physical life, all right, to try to improve them.

Look, I'll take the reins of it. I'm going to go out there. I'm going to set this thing up. You know, you show up. I'm going to be there every day. Come rain or come shine by the way it had been raining hard uh that night she said we do not cancel and they were going to do it indoors well and you got it because the plan was they did it in the parking lot the arrangement for

camp gladiator that missy beavers did and by the way, her husband, Brandon, talked about the people who did this, who joined Missy Beavers' class, they were called campers. That is the way they related to them as their campers. And they referred to them, I mean, Brandon, as well as Missy, called them our campers. And so the campers would arrive at 5 a.m., which means that Missy had to be there 45 minutes to an hour beforehand to get things set up, as you mentioned. They normally did it in the parking lot, but because of the torrential rains, and by the way, it was severe enough in Midlothian, Texas, where the weather had actually changed people's behavior because it just wasn't something that they were used to having, you know, in several days of nasty nasty rainy weather. And so moving it indoors was something that Missy was able to arrange. And that's where we begin.

And you and I both started talking about this show, this particular case. When it happened, we're talking about April 18th of 2016. That's when you and I first heard of this case. And by the way, saw the video. You have a case where Missy Beavers arrives at the church to set things up and a camper finds her just after 5 a.m., finds her body dead. Well, she was declared dead by the paramedics that showed up. But the first call to 911 was at 510. And it was somebody's hurt bad show up, you know.

And then the police, as they're investigating, they released the video that we saw. The video surveillance was from inside the church. And the first thing we all saw, we A, we know Missy Beavers is dead. B, we have video of a person walking through this church that is not just the suspect. This is the probable killer of Missy Beavers. And how often do we have video of that person? Never. And I'd mentioned to you, I've had these weird confluences, David, throughout my contact with Nancy Grace.

For some reason, I don't know why it happened, but going back to our HLN days where I would appear as her forensics guy, there are a number of these cases where I was on air with her the first night a particular case was presented. This is one of them. And that's why it's so baffling because, you know, in our off-air discussions, I was telling you, look, that night after I had covered this with Nancy, because this is the first night we had the video. And it was the first night that i heard nancy use the term slew footed and i'd heard slew footed my entire life you know for people that turn well it means that you you turn your feet out it almost looks like a duck walk you turn your feet out as you're as you know, uh, ambulating along. It's very distinctive posture. Uh, and there's all kinds of things that forensic footwear people look at relative to how, uh, how

feet strike the ground, wear patterns on, on, uh, shoes and, and boots and all these sorts of things. The impressions you live, leave in the mud are, are in, in fact, and not to mention that, you think about the weight distribution of people. So it really stood out. That night, that was just one of the little indicators that, for me, all these years, seven years, Dave. Is it seven years? It is seven years, I think.

Seven years since this, eight years. There you go. Since this occurred, and I just, I think. Eight years. Eight years. There you go. Since this occurred. And I knew that night. Look, this is going to be somebody that is going to be found out. Going back to the original, I don't know, underlying thesis here. If you think about what she's doing. Who's going to kill this woman?

Right. And that's the part. Yeah, that's the thing. Because you're looking at a woman who's 45 years old, has three kids, married, and has been for a while. And she's murdered before her class is set to begin. So the first thing that you and I and everybody else that was working on, we saw the video of the probable murderer walking through a church building with a long hammer, and we'll get into this in a minute, but we see the video of the possible suspect, the person that committed the murder. And we know, well, we've got a lot of evidence here

pointing at who's guilty of this crime, but we also have an individual that is walking through the church wearing an outfit that looks like, well, not looks like it actually says police across the front vest. And it appears to be police SWAT tactical gear, including a helmet that this individual is wearing. So back up. It's 416 in the morning when missy beavers arrives at the church and the video shows her unpacking things from her truck and bringing it inside the church we have the video of the surveillance video of the person walking through the church and then we have the student the camper arriving and calling 9-1-1. Our instructor is down and police arrive.

She is pronounced dead at the scene. Now, we have the surveillance video that police released right away, mainly because this is pretty big evidence. And they didn't, you know, in the first day or so, they hadn't figured out who did it yet. So they released this portions of it because the individual, and you said slew footed, the person that is in the video has a very distinctive gait, G-A-I-T. And it's not a term we use very often to describe something, but it means the way a person walks. I have an odd walk sometimes because of my back. Some people have an odd walk because they have an injury that it's only a temporary walk. And that was something that investigators had to consider. Is this a person who has this weird gait all the time or are they recovering

from an injury that has created this gait? The whole thing the police are thinking is somebody will notice this somebody will see this video and say hey that looks like joseph scott morgan i saw him at the grocery store the other day he was walking like that somebody's going to call that in yeah it's very it's very distinctive it's one of these things that, you know, you could say, how many, let me ask you something. Okay. We go to any, you know, any box store or anything like that. I won't mention any names, but, you know, like their initials are Walmart. Okay. So you go to someplace like Walmart or you go to your local grocery store. How many times do you pay attention to the way that people walk?

Only when they won't get out of my way. Sorry. Yeah, you're right. I'm that guy. And you're wondering, well, the first assessment that you do is like, well, are they encumbered by something? Don't you have someplace to be? Why are you doing this to me? Get out of the way. And so you're wondering here, is this how they normally walk?

And the interesting thing, and full credit to Nancy here because she had me on just this past week talking about this case. She had brought up the potential for an injury relative to how this person was stepping. And what was fascinating, she actually had a forensic podiatrist on air with us. This guy is fascinating. And forgive me, his name just flew out of my brain. But his assessment relative to this was quite fascinating. And I'm not saying that the totality of the evidence rests in the way somebody might happen to stride on any particular day or strike the ground with their heel or their toe or maybe the arch area of their foot. But I know this, this case, with all of the evidence that we're about to talk about,

and with this strange gate, remains open and unsolved. I personally I have never put on any kind of tactical police gear in my life none you wear stuff or back in my day when dinosaurs were on the earth, you wore stuff in the army that, you know, I guess could be considered was combat gear, wasn't tactical gear. You know, that consisted of a couple of suspenders, you know, a web belt, as they called it, with ammo packs and all that stuff. But this is something different. You know, I'm looking at the clothing that this person on the videography is wearing. And the podiatrist that I mentioned just a few months ago that did an assessment on this outfit that this individual had. The doctor's name, the podiatrist show that you were looking for. His name is Dr. Michael Nirenberg. Dr. Nirenberg.

Hey, that's why I love you, Dave. You're always there. You're ready with the info. Thank you. Because he deserves a lot of credit here. I got to tell you, he, you know, he, he went to his local police department and asked if he could videotape people that were dressed out in full kit, as they call it. And then he put the kit on. You know what he said?

This thing weighed, Dave? What? It approximated 40 pounds. What? Can you imagine that? Yeah, because it's got a tactical vest, which I guess has probably got plates in it, you know, like bulletproof plates that you find on the posterior and the anterior aspect. And then not to mention, you know, any kind of med kits, ammo, all the stuff that they flashlights, all that stuff. And he said, and that changes the gate. talked about is height comparison, which is fascinating to me where, you know, how agencies

can take a rendering or can take a snap of an individual in front of a doorframe. A doorframe is a known. It's a known. You get an idea of height and width of this thing. And so, they can approximate height with this. This podiatrist actually stated that based upon the weight, it's going to perhaps compress your height. So it might actually alter your height to a certain degree. Now, you know, he deals with this sort of thing every single day, you know, where they're having to make adjustments to the feet and all these sorts of things, special orthotics and all of that. And I'm sure that he's probably worked with all manner of osteopaths out there. When you think about this, that it could alter the height of somebody if they divested themselves of this rig that they're wearing. Could their height change by half an inch, maybe?

I don't know. I mean, you know, they say that astronauts get shorter when they're going to space. I don't know. But they get taller or is I'm thinking about divers, people that go that dive at deep deaths for depths for protracted period of time. But the suit you're talking about weighing the kit weighing 40 pounds. Yeah. In the pictures, in the surveillance video of the individual that, by the way, police released certain videos right a couple of days into the investigation when they didn't have a suspect. They didn't put a name to a suspect.

In a couple of days, they released more of the video. I want to add two things. One, the surveillance video only is from the inside of the church. The surveillance cameras outside the church were not working. But inside the church, police did see how the individual got in. Now we know that Missy Beavers arrived around 4 16 AM and police have told us that they saw cameras on the inside showing this person breaking into the church at 3 50 AM in full

tactical gear. And I keep saying this person because at first police were certain it was a man as I was the first time I watched it. It's only in watching the video a couple of different times that you look at this and think this might be a woman. Now, police were able to determine that he or she, the person, broke into the building. They're not telling us how, just saying that it was a forced entry. Right. And we also are going to tell you that police have never released the attack on Missy Beavers. I think it's there, though, isn't it, Dave?

Yes, it is. They have the video. It just serves no purpose to release it to the public. Right. And, you know, prurient interests don't need to be served. They're trying to find out the suspect. Anything other than that would just be damaging to her children, her family, and people who cared about her. Absolutely.

Didn't know what happened. So, anyway, they do have that though. And I'm imagining at some point, if it comes up at trial, that that could be brought in because it would have something to do about the injury sustained by Missy Beavers, the height, the weight of the individual that did this crime. But Joe, as we're watching this video of the surveillance video, it appears that the person that comes into this building is breaking windows, is looking around at door, opening doors and things like that. Does it appear to you that this individual is waiting for Missy Beavers to arrive, that this person knows she's going to arrive before 5 a.m. and this person is lying in wait by creating a mess?

Yeah, and look, how in the heck do you, okay, this has been my contention all along, Dave. If you have an individual that knows, and you have to, you kind of have to factor this in to the equation. They have to know that Missy is going to be going there they have to know that and here's the chilling part that i think that the workout had been moved from outdoors to indoors. Okay. That's very intimate knowledge, Dave. But how can you, how do you marry all that up and not narrow your field any further than

it's been narrowed? Because it's interesting to know that this message had been sent out relative to vis-a-vis Facebook. You wonder if it's a hidden group, protected group, that sort of thing might have passed that information on, not knowing that they had passed it on to someone that had it in for Missy? Is it a randomized attack? I can't imagine that it is because the person showed up prior to Missy's arrival. So they knew timeframe. They're going around, they're checking this, they're casing the joint, if you will, to try to assess if there was anybody else in the building. But boy, did they really take a risk by knocking a window out, you know,

to gain access in that way. That gives you the idea of how motivated they were in order to do this. I'm going to break something in order to make entry. But they're being very safe in the sense that they've got their kit on, their face is obscured, they're wearing gloves, you never see who they are. And the fact that they're all kitted up, there's two things to take away from that. First off, if you're wearing police gear, which the thing says police on the chest and the back, are you looking to blend in? Are you looking to be in a garment that is not going to make you more suspicious or maybe taking her unaware? Hey, I'm with the police.

We got a call here and you can creep up on her. You know, you can take take the victim, you know, by surprise, even more. You're adding another layer of the unknown there. Also, did they have knowledge of indwelling cameras inside of this place? So they have to protect their face so they would have knowledge of not just the police heard that, their heart must have sunk. And the people that are in charge of the cameras, they're probably like, oh, my gosh. Why do we even have these things on the outside of the church? I never really thought about the kit, wearing the kit kit, if somebody was in the building for some reason, other than Missy Beavers and he or she came upon that person,

they would be wearing, you know, the full body kit and would actually have the upper hand and say, I, we got a call and we came to check it out. Sorry. You know, and then they could kill that person. That person would be, if I saw somebody in SWAT tactical gear with police written across the front, I would give it a second look of, oh, OK, I'm good. You know, I'm not worried if it's a if it's a person that just comes in there swinging a big hammer, you know, dressed in regular gear. Yeah, I'm immediately defensive. But somebody in SWAT that says police, I'm not really taking it back. I'm kind of comforted by the fact that i've got

cops on hand in case there is something that went wrong i didn't that did not occur to me till now i gotta throw something else at you too that that's that's fascinating to me about this now the the video is okay i mean it's not we've certainly seen worse haven't we i mean you know for a goodly portion of my career shameless plug plug coming up here, I wore 511 gear, which is a it's it's clothing that is made for people for people in police work. It's got interesting positions for pockets. You can carry all kinds of things in it in, you know, in the pants, they have shirts and they're, they're made for people that are going out kind of in the rough and tumble world of, uh, of working cases. Um, uh, they're, you know,

it's, it's like, uh, it's, they're almost, they're made out of the same thing. Well, they appear to be made out of the same thing.'s like many of them they come in a variety but just think old military khaki uniform forms but they come in multiple colors you know you got forest green you got blue uh the police blue uh you've got black um uh khaki color all these sorts of things dave i gotta tell you i i wore 511 pants for a long, long time. It takes a while to break these things in. And I got to tell you, when I'm taking a look at this clothing, this gear looks new. It doesn't have wear on it. Because I think some people have entertained the idea.

Well, is this a police officer that just happened to have this gear and they just pull it out of their unit, put it on and they go and assassinate this woman? And one of the most brutal methodologies that you can bring to bear, you look at that and you begin to think, well, did it was it a police officer? It looks like something that has been ordered recently. And again, that's another thread relative to this tactical gear. There are limited numbers of places that you can purchase this from. And knowing what I know of the feds, okay, and we've talked about this with clothing with the feds. They do a big focus, FBI lab does, on identifying clothing, you know, button collections, zipper collections, specific brands of clothing. And I really wonder how deep down that rabbit hole they went relative to all of those items that are being worn and going back and tracing all this stuff.

Now, I know that other people have commented on this, but I think that that is certainly an area that would narrow your field down here. Thinking about the origin of this. And this is a small community. So if you can extrapolate from that image, a specific branding, considering that it might be new, and did someone go to a shop? Because they're only 25 miles from Dallas, Dave. There are police supply stores all over the place, all right? Did they roll into a store or did they have it delivered to their house? And you're going to draw attention this way. So, you know, that's another fascinating area of evidence here. And I think that when this case hopefully is eventually solved, we're going to find out a lot about that that we don't have to this point.

But to that end, when you look at this gear that they're wearing, you know what I don't see? I don't see a pistol belt. I don't see a weapon that is there that would end Missy's life in a quick and efficient manner. The weapon I do see is perhaps one of the most ghastly implements that you could use to perpetrate a crime like this. I cannot imagine what it would be like to be the finder. And a finder in our terms, in the medical legal world, we actually have a place on most of our documents. There's kind of a standard sheet that you fill out in a medical legal death investigation. And there's a place that's listed on these documents that say finder. Some will say finder of remains. I cannot even begin to imagine being the finder of Missy's remains, particularly given that it was one of her, as you said, Dave, one of her campers, students who, you know, let's face it.

Missy was probably driving her very hard. She probably respected Missy and was trying to help her get better physically. I can't imagine what it would be like to walk in and you're there prepared that day to work out. You know that it's been moved inside. You're ready to rock and roll. And can you imagine just looking down at the floor and seeing seeing your instructor's body the term that was used stumbled stumbled upon that's the term that is used and because we don't know what we know so much about this crime and so little about the actual act of the crime. And I don't know of a time I've ever seen the video of a suspect before the

act took place like we did on this one, which is why you and I and many, many others who covered the case thought, surely this is going to be solved quickly. You've got a married woman working out people in early in the morning hours and there are going to be plenty of suspects. You're going to be able to filter those out and boom, we're going to have this solved in 48 hours. But it didn't happen. And when police released the video showing his or her gate, the tactical gear, you said it looked like maybe it was brand new. Didn't even look like it had really been worn much, the outfit that the suspect is wearing.

But when the camper stumbles across the body of Missy Beavers, the chaos that ensued in that person's mind and calling for help, calling 911. There are actually two 911 calls made. We don't know the content of either one, except that there was chaos in finding the body of Missy Beavers. And police were on the way right away. And she was pronounced dead at the scene. But what we were told, Joe, is that while we saw the suspect walking through the halls of the building, that the suspect had a long hammer is what it was described as a long hammer. And that's what we were led to believe was the not led to believe actually told that was the murder weapon. But around Missy's body, we haven't seen pictures of this. Just so you know, I know they exist, but we haven't seen them around her body were other tools. And all of the tools were from the church, meaning that this suspect did not show up, as you mentioned, did not have a gun belt on.

But the suspect did not show up with the tools that were found around Missy's body. We don't know how many, but we know that it was plural tools and it appeared that she had been hit in the head and chest with the hammer but they talk they being uh the police and medical professionals and the autopsy at least the parts that we've seen, they refer to puncture wounds, Joe. And having done this show with you long enough now, I know that what some people call a puncture wound is not necessarily how you refer to a puncture wound. And I certainly couldn't figure out other than using the claw end of a hammer, how to create a puncture wound into a person's body or head for that matter so i'm hoping that based on the limited stuff that we have about the death scene that you can explain

what happened you know when when we talk about tools that are laying about the body let's start there just for a second because that gives you an indication if they're approximating the body and they were from the church then that means that those implements are not burglary tools because when people burglarize a structure people don't know this maybe uh but you know uh it's just like a carpenter. If you're a professional thief, you have a tool set that you use. You get used to those tools. You know what they feel like. You can actually find them in the dark, just feeling the contents of a bag and they'll have a kit that they carry with them. So if this is something that was acquired within the church,

that goes out of all the ways that this person was seemingly prepared as far as timeline, clothing, all of this sort of thing. They didn't show up. They acquired tools from inside this place. Well, how would you know where in the world to go into this church of christ in this kind of far-flung area even though it's 25 miles from dallas it's out i mean once you get out from dallas there's a whole lot of out if you've never been there there's a whole lot of out out there which means midlothian is a like from a community standpoint oh yeah it is self-contained it's not just a suburb of dallas

it is a self-contained area that when you live in this area you're not really required to drive a whole lot of distance to find whatever you need it can all be dealt with right there but you have access to the big city life of a top market like dallas fort worth yeah yeah you do and you know any basic basic needs can probably be met there. Okay. But, you know, you think about why were these other tools there? And then that goes to this idea of this so-called long hammer. Right. When they're saying long hammer, now I can only base this upon what I am visualizing in the videography.

Okay. in in the videography okay when you consider this long hammer it looks as though when you say long hammer or you wonder if they're saying the handle is long because it does look longer than you would normally see for a hammer you know a standard claw hammer that you know a carpenter might use or that you just use around your house just to hang pictures with. And hammers come in all shapes and sizes. But Dave, you know what really struck me about the structure of this thing? It was not the long handle. It was the head of this thing. When I saw this, and I remember thinking about this many years ago, it looked to me almost like a geology hammer that you would see out in the field that was my first blush because it looked like it had the regular head of a hammer the business end of the hammer as you will but on the back side where you would normally have a claw i swear dave this

thing looked like it had a pick on the end of it. It did, you know, and I can't appreciate it fully. And, you know, if you've never seen a geology hammer, they're used for chipping away stone, all right, and for accessing particular areas that are difficult for geologists to get in. And they need both a wide surface to strike with, and then they need a very pointed surface to strike with. So I was thinking relative to these puncture wounds that they have stated now that she had sustained, and they were about the head and the chest. Puncture wounds can be generated in any number of ways. As a matter of fact, let me give you an insight into the tiniest puncture wound you can have. Do you or what the acronym NPW stands for.

No. Needle puncture wound. So if like, if we're examining a body, you know, like somebody that has OD'd or somebody that's had therapeutic intervention in a hospital and you look at their, their arms.

Okay. If they've got little areas there where a needle has, that's actually a puncture wound. Okay. And generally how it's defined is that you have to have some type of leading pointed sharp edge on it. Now you can't have, I've had impalements over the years where I've had people that have dropped onto cast iron fencing.

I've had people that have had logs driven through their body, and those technically are puncture wounds or impalements with associated puncture wounds. But they're saying multiple puncture wounds here. And you have to think about what does that mean? Because if you were using that hammer and you're using what we commonly refer to as the business end of the hammer, that blended area, you're going to have a strike that will lacerate the skin. It'll tear the skin. And also, particularly with head strikes, you're going to have underlying fractures. And these things will be very robust, Dave. Hammer attacks are some of the most brutal that you can ever encounter out in the field. With a puncture wound, it doesn't look like a stab wound.

These are not stabs, all right? Even though a blade, which is what stab wounds are associated with, has a leading pointed edge, it also broadens out as the knife or the sharp instrument. It could be a machete, a sword, a knife. As it enters the body, it will make a slit-like insult to the body. I have, there was a period of time in my career where, uh, I worked several cases involving homeless people that had taken rebar off of partially collapsed buildings, cut them off and wrapped one end of the rebar with duct tape and filed the tip of steel rebar down so that it makes a very sharp point and they can carry in their pocket like a shiv, you know, like you see in prison.

And the interesting thing about it, now those are puncture wounds. The interesting thing about it is when you essentially insert this into somebody's body, guess what it looks like? Looks like a gunshot wound because it's that caliber. So when they're saying puncture wound, this is very, very specific. Now, are there other things out there that could create a puncture wound? Well, I've heard some people mention the term screwdriver is a screw. Yeah. But let me back up because you say screwdriver, Joe, The term screwdriver is a screw as a screw.

Yeah. But let me back up. Did you say screwdriver, Joe? And I, we have covered this story again. As I mentioned a minute ago, you were on with Nancy Grace. Yeah. Uh, on her, by the way, uh, shameless plug. Nancy has her show is now on, uh, the network that Dr. Phil has launched a merit street media.

And on that show, you heard something by Scott Brooks. Scott Brooks is a friend of Missy Beaver's husband and has been for a long time, Brandon Beavers. And Brandon Beavers sat down with Scott Brooks and did a long-form interview. He hasn't talked to police much over the last several years. I mean, he has not talked to the public much over the last several years i mean he has not talked to the public much over the last several years and here coming up on the eight-year anniversary or marking of her murder uh brandon sat down with scott brooks and these things came out so scott brooks

was booked onto the show as a guest along with you and miss and nancy grace and he said the screwdriver this is not anything I had ever heard, and I've covered this story since it began, Joe, and the only thing I had ever heard until Nancy Grace showed this past week was that long hammer that he or she was carrying throughout the building. That's what I thought was the weapon, but then Scott Brooks says it's a screwdriver. That's a big difference to me, Joe.

It is. And screwdriver injuries are going to be now. Okay. First off, we have to categorize the screwdriver because as you and I both know. Yeah. Honeydew list, right? Yeah. If are you using a Phillips or are you using a flathead traditional screwdriver?

Okay. Those two injuries are going to look different. All right. So if you think about a Phillips, which comes to a very distinct point on the end, that again can generate a classic looking puncture wound. And so if you get those in tight, well, I don't want to get off into that yet because there's a whole profile that comes up with puncture wounds like this in a very intimate space. But those injuries generated by, say, for instance, a classic Phillips head screwdriver are going to appear completely different than, say, for instance, a flathead.

And as a matter of fact, do you know what they call the tip of a flathead screwdriver? They call it a blade. Really? Yeah, that's actually referred to a blade. And you think about it and you put it in the slot and you can tighten and you can loosen and all that sort of thing it's not as uh ergonomically effective i don't think uh as a phillips that's why phillips was was developed and there have been other iterations of these things along the way people like you and me know that the uh butter knife also can serve as a it can used on this the flathead yes it can and spoons work real well too as a

matter of fact but that's i guess i i just had never heard screwdriver mentioned in this case at all i hadn't either and so i was in that's one of the reasons i kind of wanted to explore this with you because when he drops this information and i know that there are a lot of people out there that have been following this case for years. Maybe other people have heard this and maybe other people have commented on it, but from a forensic standpoint, it is very unique. I, like you, had always thought that it was the hammer and to facilitate this kind of multiple injuries. And here's the other thing, Dave. This goes into the nature of this attack. Bludgeonings and knife attacks,

sharp force injury attacks, as you and I have discussed, are the most intimate of all kinds of homicides. It's not like you're shooting somebody from across the room, Dave. And again, we go back to what did I say earlier? In the video I'm seeing, they ain't wearing a gun belt. Doesn't mean they don't have a gun on them. I'm just saying. They didn't show up with a gun to dispatch Missy and I'm not going to use the term humane in a quick manner.

Okay. This is not like we're talking about headshot. All right. We're talking about being in her space. We're talking about being up close and personal. Maybe after you've gotten the upper hand, because this person obviously weighs more than Missy. Now, Missy is, you know, she's well-defined. She's in shape.

But if that person got leverage on her and got her down to the ground and starts attacking her with the same, which I've worked hammer attacks before, where the individual was on top of the individual just pounding away. This is going to be markedly gruesome. And what you're going to see is you'll see perhaps, and this is kind of the way we interpret these things many times. If there's an initial attack with an instrument, you might have weapons or injuries that are kind of diffuse. They're away from a central area. That might be the initial injuries because you're trying to wound the person. But once they get wounded, say they grip an area like a shoulder or something like that after they've been injured, the next thing you know, the perpetrator, who has a tremendous amount of will about them, wrestles this individual to the floor. Now you're on top of them.

And these injuries suddenly become concentrated, Dave, almost like a shot group with firing a pistol where you're trying to tighten that group down. Well, now you're right on top of them. You're driving this instrument into her body over and over. And Dave, here's the thing. It wasn't like it was just driven into her chest. We're talking about she's got these puncture wounds to her head. You're off into a completely different area here because now you're in an area that could imply disfigurement, maiming, destruction, those sorts of things where you're trying to really damage her to the point. You're not just simply trying to end her life at this point in time. And again, we're left with, again, more questions than

answers because we don't know the specifics around the case as far as some of the more pointed bits of evidence along the way that the police do know. I'm still baffled, I think, to this point that we're given a very small population in this area at a very specific location at a very specific time. And with a very apparently concentrated attack on this woman with something that could be termed not the most merciful way to kill somebody. And we're talking about a person that showed up prepared, prepared from the perspective of understanding what was going on outside the church in that the classes had been moved indoors. They knew about the weather. They knew that it was happening at that particular time. And they're wearing very specific garb. It seems as though that there is a huge collection of breadcrumbs here. I just don't know if they found the path to quite follow yet. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is Body Packs.