Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Wrong Man Sent To Prison For Murder

Episode Date: May 4, 2025

Andrea Eilber is 20-years-old and dating a guy, KC Grondin,  she met while work working at the local grocery store.  Andrea and KC are in a very special place in their relationship, described by friends as very "lovey-dovey" with one another. When Andrea is asked to house-sit for her Aunt and Uncle she invites her boyfriend to come over for a movie night. When KC arrives at the house, Andrea's car is not in the driveway and nobody answers the door. KC goes home and gets a text from Andrea cancelling their plans and telling him they will talk tomorrow. KC goes home crestfallen thinking Andrea is breaking up with him. The next day when nobody can get Andrea by phone or text, her father organizes a search party. Andrea Eilber's car is found abandoned on a nearby road.  When the house is searched, Andrea is found in the basement, tied to a chair, shot in the back of the head.  Joseph Scott Morgan and Dave Mack discuss how police found their suspect, arrested, tried, convicted, and sent him to prison, while the real killer was walking around free. Scientists at Othram helped catch the real killer, another success for Othram and DNASolves.com   Transcribe Highlights 00:29.41 Introduction  00:40.49 Working in grocery store 04:39.77 Andrea Eilber and KC Grondin are infatuated with one another 09:06.09 Andrea is housesitting for relatives, but she is missing 15:10.13 Andrea Eilber is found tied to chair, shot in back of head 20:18.20 Police question everyone about boyfriend/girlfriend relationship, boyfriend identified as suspect, arrested, convicted 25:06.43 Why police give suspects water to drink 30:56.96 KC Grondin, released but under house arrest 35:21.31 Othram case - DNA Solves 40:05.10 Police follow new suspect and find sample to get DNA - Chadwick Mobley pleads no-contest 45:06.35 Prosecutors may charge KC Grondin again  48:46.43 ConclusionSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Body Bags with Joseph Scott Moore. The worst job I ever had was working in a grocery store. I hated it. I hated every single day I went to work. And I think probably one of the reasons I hated that job so much is first off, it was, uh, labor intensive. I was very young. So they had me on the front bag. This is back when people actually bagged groceries and took them out to your car for you. I hated that. And I'm not a big people person. So, you know, it wasn't my thing back then.

And then I hated having to come in at 3.30 in the morning to unload trucks. I didn't mind so much doing the stocking. I just hated unloading the trucks. I really did. And my God, the managers. Horrible, horrible. But that was many decades ago. And here I am now. But you know, I want to talk about a case today that actually originates by a relationship that was formed in a Kroger supermarket. I guess love bloomed. But unfortunately, it ended in homicide. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is Body Bags. Did you ever have stock shelves, Dave?

I did not. Did you ever have one of those jobs? Nope. Joe, I am one of those people who I had an idea of what I wanted to do with my life, what career path I wanted to be on, and then found a way to begin doing it at the age of 14. That was to be on radio. And I actually wanted to be on the radio doing baseball games, calling them, you know. Runners on first and second, no outs, bottom of the ninth.

Joseph Scott Morgan steps in. That's what I wanted to do. And whiffs. Yeah. But because I didn't think playing ball was going to work out for me. So anyway, I did that. And I've actually I've said it many times. I've actually never had a real job.

I've worked in radio or my entire life. So, well, I got to tell you, my my goal when I was a little boy, I wanted to be an archaeologist. Always. That was because I love history. I do like digging in the dirt, which I got to do, you know, helping forensic anthropologists throughout the years. They called me a professional. When I'd go out there, I ceased being a death investigator and I became a shovel leaner, which means that if you're working around forensic anthropologists slash archaeologists, you're there to do their

scut work. And so, I'd be taking the shovel full as a soul and putting it into the sifter. You called it a shovel leaner? A shovel leaner. Yeah. Yeah. So, most of the time that's applied to people from the DOT. You know, they're leaning on shovels.

But yeah, I was a professional shovel leaner. But yeah, not too many roads lead away from the local Piggly Wiggly to a career in archaeology. So unfortunately, I had to start out there. But it put gas in my car. Right. So I am grateful for it. But it was probably, I preferred, I really did prefer working in the morgue to working in the grocery store. Yeah.

I really did. I respect people that have those jobs because I know that it's like I don't know what it's like clocking in. And I'm thankful for that. I worked hard to not clock in. I worked hard for that. But I've admired people who do that can go in and do something like that day in and day out and find satisfaction and build from it. And in this case, we're actually dealing with a young couple. We're talking late teens and they meet at a Kroger and they actually are there in this really lovey dovey stage, the kind where people are really infatuated with one another.

And they're just old enough where they're outside of that puppy love you get when you're 14 and 15 before you can drive. And, you know, that's a different infatuation than it is when you're 19, 20 years old. You're out of high school and you're in college or moving forward with your adult life. And so when you're in that infatuated state, it can kind of be sickening for those who are not in that state. Come on, you know, it just stop. But that's where they were. And that's where this couple, Andrea Ilberg and her boyfriend, Casey Grondin, that was where they were in their relationship.

They were in that lovey dovey. I can't stand to be a minute, you know, where they like go to sleep holding the phone kind of thing, you know, right. Right on their pillow. So anyway, for those. Well, hey, wait, hang on now. I remember falling asleep on the phone talking to Kim when we were in that dating phase. And it, you know, now she just says, you know, I'll feel her elbow. And she said, do you hear anything I said?

Are you awake? It was, you know, it's gone from, you know, that was so sweet to, you know, are you listening? So, yeah, you know, it changes. Like you said, man, it changes over time and it goes through phases like that. But I don't think this relationship necessarily worked out the way maybe both individuals planned for it to. They were kind of estranged. And by the way, this actually happened, um, lo these many years ago to the east of Flint, Michigan in a town called Mayfield Township. Sounds very Mayberry-like to me. You're actually talking about like, man, what, a week and a half, two weeks before Thanksgiving,

2011. And Andrea is house-sitting for her aunt and uncle. And, you know, that's one of those things that, you know, people do still do, I guess, in certain areas, you know. And she's there and she's got her boyfriend. Hey, you come on. You know, she's like, what, 19, 20 years old and he's 19. And hey, come on over and let's watch a movie. You know, I got the house to myself. Come on. Right. Right. Yeah. And that was their plan. And so he's all excited about it. Casey is. And he gets a message from her saying, you know, no, it's off. Don't want to do it. And it was like, cause he went to the door. I think, didn't he go to the

home and knocks on the door? She doesn't answer her car. Yeah. It doesn't answer at all. And he's like, I'm at the right address, you know? And then he gets a text message from her phone that says not going to do it. We're not doing this tonight. And so he left and he was so disappointed. He thought she was breaking up with him that he said he went home to his house and basically crawled in bed and cried for three days. Now, 19 year old man saying he went home and crawled in bed and cried for three days. Got to be honest, Joe, that that's not something I would admit to. But no, yeah, I don't I don't think so.

Maybe for a couple of hours. I don't know. But not not for a protracted period of time like that. Plus, all that crying leaves you quite dehydrated as well. So I just I don't think I don't I don't see myself doing that. And look, I know I know that, you know, these these events, particularly when you're young, can be absolutely soul crushing. And this is another thing. When you're that young, you are not sophisticated enough to actually read the room that you're easily fooled. And I think a lot of it and I I guess it, you don't necessarily have

to be young to have that happen, but, uh, when love is involved and you're vulnerable, you know, you, you know, your heart is like an open target. So, um, it can really, you know, it can really impact you to a great degree. And of course, you know, Dave, what do we always talk about? What do we always talk about, man? And I've preached this over and over again, relative to suspects. You're going to be looking at those intimate partners, you know, in any kind of case. So this young man, this young man, you know, that he's let everybody know that he was involved in a relationship. And let me tell you one more thing about the grocery store. All right. Everybody at the grocery store would have known that they were in a relationship.

They're not like keeping the secret. Families know all of this sort of thing. But Dave, I got to tell you, this this takes a dark turn really, really quickly. Well, OK. you know what? She doesn't. All right. He only go back to Casey for just a minute because he expected them to have a really nice date night.

And it ends up being she's not there. Her car's not there at the house. And so in his mind, she's breaking up with me because he got a text an hour later, you know, and he goes and cries. Well, when nobody can get up with her, the last text from her phone was to him. He said it wasn't a normal text from her. And that's kind of what sent him in the direction he went. But the thing is, is that when nobody could get up with her the next day, her dad was like, we got to find her. You know, she's not answering her phone. She's

not at the house and her car is not here either. So they began looking for her right away. It wasn't where, um, I'm trying to think of how we go through the expression of, we got to wait a couple of days, you know, before you really start looking, this was pretty quick because she was 20 years old and she was connected and she did have this boyfriend she was really infatuated with. So when she's not where she's supposed to be house sitting, her car's not there. There was an immediate let's go find her. Now, my first thought would have been go to the house, the house that she's house sitting and go look through that house. But then if her car is not there and the door is locked, are you going to go in? I don't know, because apparently that wasn't their first thought.

They being those who decided to look for her. But early the next day, her car was found abandoned on a nearby road. And that's when when they realized her car was abandoned. Then we need to go look in the house. And that's what they did. They went inside the house and what they found was the type of horrific thing you take to your grave. You never forget the site that would run through your veins, that would make the hair on the back of your neck stand up, that would literally crush your soul to see this beautiful young woman tied to a chair in the basement of her aunt and uncle's home, having sustained an execution-style gunshot wound to the back of the head. You know, I've never had anyone ask me this question. However, I will give you the answer to the question that no one has ever asked me. What would be my preference?

Indoor scene, outdoor scene, indoor scene every time for me. It goes to this idea of containment. And you almost have an indwelling barrier that's set up to a certain degree that prevents loss of any kind of evidence. You have to think, though, with this young lady and from what we know from this horrible homicide that took place all the way back in 2011, that there would have been a significant amount of trace evidence at the scene, you know, either adjacent to her body or throughout the house. And they've never really released how extensive her injuries were. We do know that she was, and they've termed it as being executed, essentially, after being tied down.

Why would you, I guess this is a big question. What would be the purpose behind tying this young woman to a chair? If you just wanted to end her life, what would drive a perpetrator to want to sit her down? The only thing I can really think of, and I would imagine that the police did as well, Dave, is they would view this as perhaps torture of some kind or a, I don't know, an inquisition perhaps directed at her. I'm going to control you. You will remain restrained in this position. I want answers and I want them now. And if those answers are not given in a satisfactory manner, we're going to blow your head off or we're going to do grievous harm to you.

And that's kind of what this smacks of. So when you have someone, I mean, let's say my theory. Yeah, sure. Go ahead. I thought it was he's done. The individual has done whatever they're going to do, and they have tied her to this chair to say, look, you're not going anywhere. I'm going to leave. Okay. And once I get done, you can try to get yourself out and you can go, but I'm leaving now just to calm her down. And then once she's calm and realizes he's leaving, boom, shot to the back of the head. Yeah. And that's possible. I think one of the things I'd like to know, Dave, we know that she's bound to the chair. I'd really like to know if she was, you know, blindfolded anyway. You know, like, for instance, if there was someone that, if we go with your idea here, that if there was someone that she knew that was doing this, wouldn't they want to blindfold her so that she wouldn't have any knowledge of who they were?

But that would imply that they had taken her by surprise, you know, so that they couldn't be identified if they were going to let her go free. But she could still recognize voices as well. And for whatever reason, someone was driven to to commit a homicide. And it's not like she was being they're shooting her to wound her, Dave. This is a this is a headshot. All right. So the intent there is to end her life. There's no other way to really explain that.

And contained down there in the basement, that also goes to another point, I think. For those of us that have basements in our home, the sound quality in the basement is not the same as it is throughout the rest of the house. So if you take someone into a basement, you're kind of sequestering them to a location, you know, because people can shout and scream because, you know, many times basements are at least partially, if not totally underground. So you're, you know, you're kind of insulated from sound escaping. And if you want to do anything down there involving torture, you can, because most of the people are not going to hear it that are in a problem. Now, if you're up on the first floor or the second floor, that sound has a real chance

of traveling out. So would they have known about this, the perpetrator that showed up at the house? And remember, if we're talking about intimates, if we're talking about intimates, this is not her domicile. This is actually the domicile of her aunt and uncle. So how did the perpetrator know that the house even had a basement in it? You see what I'm what I'm saying? I do. And all I It kind of begs familiarity. Oh, my word. No, you know what? Now I understand why this case got messed up.

Because everything that you're talking about, Joe, the different things you have to expect in an investigation, are still question marks here. Because the only thing we know for sure is 20-year-old Andrea Ilber is dead, tied to a chair, shot in the back of the head. That's all we know. In the basement of the house, which was this somebody who was familiar, like her boyfriend, somebody who was invited over there, like her boyfriend, that maybe downstairs was where they were going to have a, you know, I don't know their date, even though she was house sitting. So being in the basement really doesn't matter. But maybe he's there.

And I mean, I'm trying to think like you're saying, because I can't make sense of it at all. I mean, at all, to think like you're saying, because I can't make sense of it at all. I mean, at all, Joe. This is really confusing. Yeah, it truly is. And, of course, the first person that the police are going to look at is going to be this boyfriend. And, you know, once I'm sure that once he starts spilling his guts about this and starts talking about how he felt like he was rejected, you know, first, you know, right out of right out of the gate. You know, they're looking at this guy really, really hard for this. Yeah.

They're wanting to know. Yeah. They're they're wanting they're wanting to try to get as much information from him as possible. And they're going to be assessing the nature of the relationship. And just understand this, if you're doing a history with somebody like this, you're going to take them back. You know, how did you guys first meet? Well, we know that we've established that they met at work. How long have you been seeing one another? And suddenly the questions become progressively more uncomfortable. You know, have you guys been having trouble? Have you gotten into an argument? Did the argument turn physical? Yeah, recently.

Yeah, last night. You were supposed to be over there watching a movie, having date night, and wait a minute, the text says no? So what do you think about that, buddy? It's an out and out rejection. And so you're thinking if this, if this kid has any kind of, of anger that's built up over this, you know, what was it? We said early on, Dave, this plays back into it. He goes in and he begins

to cry and cross for this long protracted period of time by his own admission. Okay. And I know, you know, you can make light of it, but if he's wounded, he's wounded emotionally over it. And so in rejection, hey man, every, every, I don't know anybody that hasn't been rejected before. And particularly it's a very powerful thing. And so, you know, the, the police see, see these breadcrumbs along the way. They're also going to want to know, were you involved in a physical relationship with her? And again, you know, talking about

how things become progressively more uncomfortable. Then they go out to all the peripheral people. Did you, you know, here at the front, at the front of the store where the cash registers are, did, did you folks that work these cash registers, did you ever see them get into a fight up here? Were they ever angry at one another? Did any of that happen? Are there any instances? And, oh, one more thing. Is it okay for people to date that work here?

Can they date? You know, what's the policy about that? That sort of thing. So you have to consider every bit of this. But, David, I've got to tell you, when they work this case, they work this case and. The boyfriend is identified as the number one suspect in this thing. Yeah, man, he not only was he identified, he was actually arrested. Yep. Dude, he was actually arrested. Yep.

Dude, he was charged and convicted on this thing. The interrogation video is rough. Yeah. Yeah. You know, the police, the police, as they're going through this process, are pressing him, pressing him, pressing him. And if you're young and not very worldly, it always amazes me that people that want to fight with cops on the street to get into these verbal, verbal contests with cops, you know, that you can go to, there's a technique that's taught, that's taught in, you go, you don't get it necessarily when you're going through the academy, but there's actually a course that's taught, and I remember

it very well, it's called Verbal Judo. And it, it talks about how to either de-escalate a situation or how to press the buttons of an individual. And it's kind of a rudimentary way to do this. And cops make their living by doing this. That's why attorneys say, keep your mouth shut. Don't say anything. Because you'll never be as good as the cops are. There might be a few that are out there that can go toe to toe with the police. But every time you say something, you're adding more fuel to the fire. That's why, you know, every attorney that I know that's a defense attorney is going to say, keep your mouth shut, ask for your phone call and don't agree to anything.

And unfortunately, in this case, this young man, not only did he buckle under the pressure. Oh, Joe. Dave, he was convicted. I know. And sent away to the state prison. For life, Joe. For life. All I could think of, and I wanted to to ask you this because you know what it looked like you know what it looks like to find somebody tied to a chair with a gunshot in the back of the head

this 19 year old kid doesn't do were the detectives able to sit him down in that room and say do you think maybe when she shot you down that you might have blacked out and maybe you did harm her and you don't remember it, but maybe it happened. And just maybe you did go in there and see something. And that's caused you to forget all of these horrible things that you've done because they're telling this kid, you can go home. Just look, man, we just got to get this. And you're going to be able to go home. And I will tell you, this goes back to you. You said lawyers who don't talk. Here's why this kid, you said it already. Char arrested, charged with murder at trial, convicted, sentenced to life in prison. Joseph Scott Morgan and this kid, they got him to admit he wrote down that he entered the house, saw Ilber's body,

assumed she committed suicide, and then moved objects in the room to make it look like she hadn't harmed herself. They got to write that down. None. Yeah. Makes no sense whatsoever. And yeah, you were talking about applying pressure, you know, in that narrative that you're giving. There are also physical things that can be done where they're not necessarily striking you, but I'll give you a for instance. Okay. Let's say one of the first things that they ask you when you're in that interview room is, hey, man, do you want a bottle of water? And people think that's very benign. But what they'll do, and they'll give you as much water as you want.

Okay? And what happens when you drink water? Well, particularly me at this age, I can tell you what happens when I drink water. But at that particular time, you know, in his life, you know, he's he's tense. He's confused. He knows that he's here. He's being questioned there. You know, I don't know, not necessarily him, but there are these instances where you're given water.

Yeah, look, and the the people that are doing the interview can see that you're becoming more uncomfortable. Because you got to go void. You got to go to the bathroom. And it's almost like a Columbo moment where they say, yeah, we're going to let you go to the bathroom. But wait, one more thing. Let's go back to this point in time. So all the while that internal pressure is building up in your bladder. That's one of the little tricks. So keep your mouth shut. Don't drink any water. So, you so you know you you begin to think about this and think about well why in the world would he admit to this why would he was it because

the police pressured him into it or was it because he actually did it you he actually did it. So Dave, with Kenneth Grondin, who, by the way, has been convicted now, he's essentially taken off to who, by the way, has been convicted now. He's essentially, you know, taken off to state prison where he is going.

He begins to serve a lifelong sentence. No possibility of parole at all. He's going in, as they say, he's going in for all day. All right. Well, two years into it. He was convicted by a jury. I do want to add that. Yeah. It wasn't just a judge.

Yeah, it's not just a judge. It's not just the police. They went through the whole thing, man, and had a jury. They sat a jury. They presented the case. The evidence they had came out and this at the time of the murder he's 19 years old a couple years go by and the man is convicted joe he's convicted by a jury of his peers not just a sitting judge and that means something to me because this kid this boy he didn't do it we

know that ahead of time that's why we're doing the story. But thank God, Joe, that there were other people who did not believe he was guilty because he was able to appeal. And when they did look at the information, they're like, wow, this I think we might have got this wrong. Somebody along the line got this wrong because he's sentenced in 2016 and it's 2018 when everything starts to come together for him but he's been in jail for he's been in prison man i mean what's it like when you go to prison joe yeah it ain't the county lock up i'll put it to you that way it's five foot ten yeah he he is five foot ten? was he, being Grondin, was identified that as using the victim's credit card and also that they have him doing this. You've got these experts that have come in and they look at this thing,

they say, look, this, this person that you're saying is at the, you know, at the ATM with her stolen card, you know, withdrawing money. Um, this person's like six, one, six, Grunin's 5-10. And what they determined was that not only that, but also the police had violated what's referred to as Bender's rule, which just thumbnail here, which states that a suspect must be told when an attorney has been retained. So, it's at that point in time that, you know, all, you must cease and desist with what you're doing with the suspect, that they have legal counsel, they will be there to, you know, to offer assistance. And so, anything that comes after that notification is inadmissible, Dave. So, you know, he could have admitted to anything.

But if you break that particular rule, then all of that stuff is any information gleaned is going to be non-admissible. And that's what happened. And then you couple that with the videography evidence that just doesn't marry up, you know, with Grondin. Because he's kind of a, you know, he's kind of a stocky guy. You know, you look at him, he's, you know, kind of muscled the older photographs of him. You know, he's kind of muscled up and that sort of thing. And this actually led Dave to him being released from prison and sent home and placed in house

arrest. Now, they haven't overturned it, but he was not free to do what he wanted. No, no. But they sent him home. He's out of the joint. Right. Thankfully. Thankfully.

But, Joe, now it goes back to you've got physical evidence that's got to be present whenever there is a shot to the back of the head. Yeah. And I want to go back to that scene because. Wouldn't there have been some type of physical evidence left behind by the killer? And wouldn't that killer take something with him or her? Would they not leave something behind and take something with them? I mean, I cannot get past this because. You're really in close proximity to somebody, you know, to tie them to a chair, I, I, can I get past this because you're really in close proximity to somebody, you know, to tie them to a chair and, you know, and then shoot them in the back of the head. I'm just trying to figure out why, how is it possible that we stopped investigating and went

after this one guy because he was the low hanging fruit. Yeah, he was a low hanging fruit. And here's something that's kind of fascinating to me. You collect, and Dave, what I'm about to tell you, this type of evidence is very intimate evidence. You go to the trouble to work the scene down in the aunt and uncle's basement where she was house-sitting and found, of course, executed. You collect evidence at the scene that is intimate. And the reason I say intimate, it's not in a sexual sense. You place in your mouth that DNA evidence can easily be transferred to. There are tons of these cases out there, and that said evidence is collected at scene. It's taken to the police station, and it ain't never tested.

I'm always amazed in these cases, you know, where things go untested. You know, you don't get me on my soapbox about rape kits. Is it because of cost? I think some of it's cost and some of it is, and here's the downside of being quote unquote thorough at scenes. There are certain detectives out there and crime scene techs that want to take everything. Okay. And don't think that, you know, being a death investigator, you know, robs you of your humanity or a crime scene tech or a detective, because when you go out to a scene and you collect everything at the scene, what are you going to do with it? Well, you don't have the budget to test everything that's there. So you look at all of the items that you've collected, what's going to have the highest probable outcome, what's going to be the most benefit to us,

and we'll retain the rest of the stuff. Well, that thing that they retained that was never tested, Dave, is a cigarette butt. And so what do we do? Well, for those that have never smoked cigarettes, if you've got a filtered cigarette, every time you put this thing in your mouth and you've got, you know, I don't know where they call it, a micronite filter or whatever. That's what they used to call it back in the 60s. Micronite. Micronite. What is it?

Micronite filter. It's a cancer stick. Cancer stick. No, the nail and coffin. Transferring through saliva your DNA into what amounts to almost like a sponge. So, yeah, it's rich. And the outer circumference of the cigarette butt as well. You're wrapping your lips, it's not just your tongue or your teeth. If you've got saliva on your lips, that's going to transfer to the outer cylinder of this thing.

And it was never tested. And guess what? They had this piece of evidence. They've got this kid who has been released and put into house arrest. My thought is that they've always suspected that there was at least one other person involved in this, and they never followed up on it. Well, enter onto the stage our friends at Othram. And Dave, I got to tell our friends the story behind me picking this case. I saw the case and it made no reference to Othram at all.

And I'm thinking, wow, this is really a wacky case. Dave and I ought to talk about this. And I made it through like the first two thirds of the article. And then all of a sudden, DNA Solves pops up. And most of the cases that you and I talk about with Othram are cases where we've got an unknown individual and they're finally identified after. See, Othram has multiple utilities, Dave. It's not just a matter of trying to discover the identity, which to me is one of the most noble things that can happen. But this utility that they have, this patented methodology that David and Kristen Middleman have developed at Othram can help solve these cases as well. So if there are peripheral actors there and they have something like a like a cigarette

button, I can only imagine a DNA scientist, pun intended here, was salivating over this, you know, because of how how rich this is going to be and what you can extract from it. And you take that data and you plug it in to this forensic genetic genealogy database where these open source open sources that they have access to, you're going to get a hit. And they did in this case, Dave. And, you know, when looking at this, Joe, and you mentioned them having the cigarette, but from the beginning, you know, I don't think I can think of is that while they did consider that there were probably more than one person involved, but they get somewhat of an admission of guilt without having to test the cigarette. But they go and get a conviction by a jury and a sentence.

I can see them not testing and not spending the money to test it because they've already got it. It's like it's done is we got the murderer. He's in prison. But the minute he's out, the minute there's a problem, I'm a little concerned. You know, there wasn't somebody that was yelling and screaming, hey, look, we got stuff to test. You know, I hate that it took this long for this guy to get his name cleared. I hate that he had police sitting on him at 19 years old and, and they were not being the way they should have been. There should have been somebody there, Joe, that said, Hey, there's a lawyer outside waiting for you to talk to you,

which is exactly what happened while they were grilling him. They knew it. Yeah. They didn't tell him. Well, I got to stop you there, man. I got to stop you there because this is going to be very disheartening for you to hear. Yeah. He's tethered in his home still.

And guess what? What? Yeah. He's still tethered in his home. And the authorities up there are going to be filing new charges against him. Against him. Yes, against him. In addition to the person that they believe is the perp in this case, who for some reason, I think that the local constabulary believes that there is a connection between Grondon and this other subject that we're going to talk about. Chadwick?

Yeah. Chadwick Mobley has now pleaded guilty. He has. And he pleaded nolo contingere, which means it is as good as saying I'm guilty. And by the way, they, you know, the family, the family of this young woman were very found that very dissatisfying because he was never. If you plead nolo, they're not going to compel you apparently to admit to what you've done, which is something that I think is key, particularly in our society. and you plead no low, it's not the same as saying I'm guilty. Because under those circumstances, they can compel you to allocute, at least on some level. But he was not compelled to do that. So you've got this fellow who, by the way, has essentially been on the run for many years.

If I'm not mistaken, he was actually tracked down in Montana, which is where... When they watched him. Yeah, they sat on him for a while. Because they had the info and they were having trouble getting anything from him. They could test to see if his DNA did match. And they finally did get it, but it took some time. And once they did, and as soon as they questioned him, he bolted. You know, he knew what he had. He knew what was going on.

Yeah, he knew what was going on. And I can only imagine, you know, when if he's got counsel, when he begins to stare down these numbers that Othram would have generated, these astronomical numbers, they're going to be looking. He's going to be looking right down the barrel of this thing, understanding that the chances that he's going to get off on this are slim and none. So he just rolls over and literally when there is no trial, he comes in, pleads no low to this thing. And the judge hands down a sentence on this guy, Dave, of life in prison without possibility of parole. You know, this case is ugly. It really is.

At this point, I feel sick to my stomach for the family of the victim here. You know, the one thing you have left after you lose a loved one is you have answers. You know, you need answers. We need to know what happened and why. There has to, the why really just helps us, I think. It doesn't mean we agree with it or like it, but at least there was a reason. They don't have a reason. They don't have an admission.

They don't have anything that allows them to go to sleep at night saying, I know what happened to my loved one and why. I don't know that. I just know that her boyfriend got locked up and now he's not locked up anymore. Another guy who actually pled no contest is now in the joint, but they're not. There is no you know, you and I don't use the term closure because I don't believe it's a real term. It's a BS term. Yeah, I think it is. And, you know, if you guys disagree, we understand.

I understand that. But, you know, I I just don't think there is sometimes there's an end. But even that end is hollow. It's not achievable. It makes it, you know, that term again, you know you know, it gives the impression that, that everything's going to be all right and that you will have closure. You close that chapter of your life and you move on. And that's just not, it's not the way it works. It's bad. It's bad wording. Um, and you know, look, there's going to be a lasting, you know, impact of this case. First off, can I tell you what really disturbs me about this?

Going back to Chadwick Shane Mobley that has been arrested, pled no low and has been convicted. He was, at the time, he was working as an EMT in Pontiac, Michigan. So, there's that proximity. I think what I'm still trying to understand is what is the connection? What is the actual connection between Mobley, Grodin, and more importantly to me, this poor young lady, Andrea? I want to know how all of those kind of triangulate together and what would compel a person to participate in this behavior like this that brings about an end to a life. You know, he had worked as an EMT up there. So he he would have had this idea of proximity to those events, which occurred, you know, like I mentioned earlier in this little this little hamlet outside of Flint back over to the east. And additionally, he had taken on a job, Dave, of at this point in his life of being a long haul trucker. So, you know, when the investigation led to him,

he was going to try to dispose of anything that might tie him back in his truck and went to some efforts to try to, you know, destroy these things. But the one thing that you can't destroy is your DNA molecule that you're toting around with you. It doesn't matter, you know, how many dirty towels you have in your cab of your truck. It doesn't matter if you've got food stuffs that are left behind. It doesn't matter if you're shedding skin off of your scalp and you wipe all that stuff up, if that's even possible. That genetic code that you have within you can still be paired up and match with that genetic code that was

on that cigarette. And those two things are blended together to give you a result or not blended together, but compared. And that, you know, those numbers are, as I've said before, absolutely astronomical and they lead back to him. But again, this case is going to require a lot more because this young man, according to what I have been reading, is still going to be recharged in this case. So it would seem to me that they're going to do this for one or two reasons. They're either going

to say that, well, there's other things that we know about this case that you guys don't know, or maybe it's that they just want to save face for having, you know, led to a conviction of this man and put him away. And still, even though he's not in the joint, he's still limited. He's not free to move about. But listen, now that this case, at least to this point, has been solved, we have to keep in mind that it was solved by the efforts of those authorities that felt that it was in the best interest to dig deeper and try to determine whose DNA was on that cigarette putt. And of course, that leads us back to Arthur. It's important that any of you out here within the sound of my voice

that are interested in helping to solve crimes, helping to solve mysteries, please do yourself a favor and go visit DNAsolves.com. And they have got a myriad of cases that are out there. But this is a self-funded endeavor. They need money in the pot in order to move these cases forward. And anything you choose, you choose a case. Maybe it's something the story is compelling to you, or maybe it's in proximity to where you live. You choose that case.

You donate to that case. And when they hit that trigger mechanism for those funds, which is roughly $7,000 to $7,500, that case will begin to move forward at that point in time. And maybe, just maybe, because of your donation, someone will have answers. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is Body Packs. This is an iHeart Podcast.