Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - BOMBSHELL: ANOTHER FORT HOOD SOLDIER SEX HARASSED GOES MISSING AFTER VANESSA GUILLEN TORTURE-SLAY

Episode Date: August 26, 2020

Another Fort Hood soldier, Elder Fernandes, goes missing after reporting sex harassment on base. He is missing for days. His family is frantic.Joining Nancy Grace Today: Ailina Fernandez - mother of Elder Fernandes Natalie Khawam - attorney for Elder Fernandes family Joe Episcopo - Criminal Defense Lawyer, Military Law specialist Dr Debbie Joffe-Ellis - Psychologist, Adjunct Professor at Columbia University, www.debbiejoffeellis.com Levi Page - Investigative reporter Crime Online  Tipline: Fort Hood Military Police - 254-288-1170US Army CID 256-287-2722 Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. After the stunning and shocking disappearance of a private first class Vanessa Guillen at Fort Hood, her body is discovered dismembered, burned, in a shallow grave. But that is just the beginning of the deaths, the unexplained missing at Fort Hood. Our army base. Seemingly no explanations being given. And the ones we do hear, I've got to say, don't make sense. Another Fort Hood soldier missing? Another?

This is what? The 9th or 10th in the line of missing and dead soldiers? This is a 23-year-old nuclear specialist gone missing after the death of 11 people this year alone linked to Fort Hood. What is happening at Fort Hood? Well, I'll tell you what kicked the whole thing off. Listen to this. They first tried to set, light her body on fire. They try to burn her body. They can't burn her body. They're having a hard time burning her body. Then they decide to take the machete out and start macheting, dismembering her whole body.

They try to destroy it, try to put it in different places, bury it. They use some kind of quick dry, some kind of cement product, and they do a shallow grave, put the cement on it, and they get rid of basically the evidence. They threw their machete out the window by the way with her phone they threw they destroyed her phone and threw out the window they threw the hammer out the window when they're driving this is what they're saying this happened to a beautiful young girl vanessa gilliam you are hearing the voice of her family's lawyer, Natalie Kawam, who is joining us today, who is now working with Ailina Fernandez, the mother of Elder Fernandez, 23-year-old nuclear specialist, now missing. When will it end? Take a listen to more of what happened to Vanessa.

They couldn't get her dental cavity. Everything was bludgeoned in her face and her skull, but they couldn't even use her face or her skull for any kind of bone or recognition. They said they found her hair, though, but her face was so bludgeoned that they could not get the dental records or do that kind of confirmation of autopsy of her face.

It's just disgusting. It's heinous. And that's not all. Listen. He said he grabbed the first thing he could find, and that was a hammer, and started bludgeoning her head over and over. She wasn't getting knocked down quick enough, so he kept on bludgeoning, bludgeoning, bludgeoning her head, skull. In the armory room. The whole place was filled with blood. He took her body and put it in, I want to say, a pelican brief.

He wheeled it out. He put it on the side of the armory room. He went home. 6 p.m. comes around. He enters the base. He takes her body he takes it to the lake or the river and puts it there and decides he can't do this by himself he can't you know bury her he needs help he calls his girlfriend the sicily girl the one who is and he calls her he says get in the car she gets in the car and he tells her i have van Vanessa's body in a pelican reef at the lake.

I need your help to bury her. And after all this, another soldier goes missing. With me, an all-star panel to break it down and put it back together again, Tim Miller, Texas EquiSearch founder and director who helped find the body of Vanessa Guillen. Dr. Debbie Joffe Ellis, psychologist, professor, Columbia University at DebbieJoffeEllis.com. Renowned criminal defense attorney, military law specialist, our friend and colleague, Joe Episcopo, joining us from the Florida jurisdiction, Natalie Kawam, the attorney not only for Vanessa Guillen's family, but now for Sergeant Elder Fernandez's family. Special guest, join me in addition to Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter is Ailina Fernandez. This is Elder's mother. Miss Fernandez, thank you for being with us. Thank you for having me.

Ms. Fernandez, tell me when you realize Elder is missing. Elder, the last time I talked to Elder on Sunday prior for him to get discharged from the hospital around 5.30 p.m. We talked. He told me I asked him to do a video call with me so I can see him. He told me, Mom, I'm at the hospital. I'm using the hospital phone. That day we talked three times already he told me monday as soon as i get out of the hostel i'll get my cell phone i'll do video chat so you can see me miss fernandez i know exactly how you feel i with my children when i'm away from them i don't know what i would do without facTime because I can see them and I can know that they're okay. Oh, Ms. Fernandez, it's breaking my heart to hear you cry. We were told that Elder Staff Sergeant dropped him at his home in Killeen, and that that was the last time he was seen.

Is that true? That's correct. So the last time he was seen, he was with a Fort Hood staff sergeant. Is that correct? That's correct. Yes. And after they dropped him off in front of that house, I'm assuming, because ever, never make him to the house. No one can tell me if the lawyer for the Fernandez family as well as the Guillen family. Natalie, you have had to take your fight all the way to the Oval Office to try to get answers. And in the wake of all of this happening with Vanessa, her body cut up with a machete, burned, and cement poured onto her flesh. How could they let another young soldier go missing? You know, when I heard this story, it made me so upset.

It was like I had PTSD with, I can't believe this is happening again. They just won't accept their problems. They won't fix their problems. They don't care about their soldiers. If anything, I think they're causing this to happen. The dereliction of duties, complete disregard of these soldiers' lives and their families' lives. Last night, we were on the phone with the command, and the way that they speak to this family, Ms. Fernandez has tried to be as kind and accepting as possible, but they continue to evade and be evasive and be vague about what happened in the whereabouts. For example, when they were dropping off Elder,

and we don't really know if he did get dropped off in front of the house because no one ever saw this happening. So he was supposed to be handed off to his roommate, Chris. He was supposed to be handed off, and Chris was supposed to sign for receiving Elder and say that he received him and he would be in his care. Why did he not follow through with the protocol he dropped him off in front of the house when somebody's suicidal

or there's any kind of problems of an immense from what they caused him problems because he was elder was completely healthy no mental health issues whatsoever before the assault he dropped them off not doing exactly what he was supposed to do which is follow protocol sign off and give sign off uh elder okay wait a minute wait a minute natalie kawam you're telling me that once again protocol was not followed because in vanessa's case she was murdered in the armory Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. For those of you joining us, another soldier is missing. A 23-year-old soldier, a chemical, biological, radiological, and nuclear specialist with the 1st Cavalry Division Sustainment Brigade Central Texas Army installation.

His car found with all of his belongings inside. Last known to be with a Fort Hood authority. Yet we are now being told by the family's lawyer, Kawam protocol was not followed now I'm trying to put it all together and the reason we're all finding out about this is because of a young lady now dead Vanessa Guillem she goes missing we now know she was murdered right there in the armory and nobody noticed she was gone. Nobody saw signs of a struggle. There was obviously no forensic testing in the armory after she went missing. She was called in on her day off for what? To get murdered because she had been being sex harassed

at Fort Hood? What the hey is going on? And now Elder is missing missing too take a listen to this a lot of times i got a lot of things to talk about and this time i don't it's still trying to digest that scene and what happened in that fire and that fire was so high nancy it was burning tree limbs 15 feet above the damn fire they made that fire hot there was a tire at that fire too and we know when you put a tire in a fire it burns even hotter and and you know what nancy there are still plastic out there uh that they did not take in for evidence and i'm not saying a little bit of plastic and i was trying to figure out why in the hell didn't they take everything that was here. All they took was that part of that lid. There was still stuff out there. Yeah, this investigation was botched terribly, terribly. Botched or was there a cover up? The

Army insisted that they had forensically examined the armory where we now know Vanessa was bludgeoned dead. They couldn't find one drop of blood. Joey Piscopo, criminal defense lawyer, military law specialist. What? They've never heard of luminol? A base is a city and the base commander is responsible for what goes on there. And he can be easily removed, unlike the mayor of, say, Portland, that can't be easily removed. Things go wrong in the city, and we've got something going wrong at this installation.

But I don't see the connection between the woman's death and the disappearance. Really? Really? Well, let me illuminate it for you. Isn't it true? Natalie Kawam, attorney for the Gume family and now the Fernandez family, isn't it true that Elder reported sex abuse before his disappearance from the base and Vanessa Guillaume had been subjected to sex abuse?

One pervy guy actually coming in watching her as she took a shower that's correct they both reported it they both were known for it they were both being called in on their days off after reporting it you know the typical harassment uh re-victimizing the victim and then protocol is breached with both of them they it's similar stories unfortunately um and this is why i got involved you know no one can give us an excuse if it's a city that doesn't mean that murder should happen just because a city is big that means that people are breaching protocol and there's no safety and security measures there what is his connection okay okay let me let me help you again joe episcopal and you know what

you're a veteran trial lawyer. You've won a lot of cases and you're a military law expert. They're both at Fort Hood. They're both in their early twenties. They both get called in on their days off. They both are experiencing sex harassment at Fort Hood. They both go missing. You don't see a connection? No. Who is harassed? Are two different people harassing them, or is it the same person? It's not clear what you're talking about here.

They both go missing or die after they make a sex harassment allegation. Is that you, Natalie? Jump in. Yes, that is. You know, so this is what I'm saying. I'm not saying the same person is the same culprit. I'm saying that the command, supposedly the discipline order nonsense that they keep on regurgitating, they don't follow their own orders. They have breached protocol over and over and over and over and over again with these soldiers.

They have this order and discipline that they're supposed to follow, yet the command continues to breach their own protocol. And that's why you have all these soldiers. So if somebody can go missing for an hour, I understand, you know, maybe we're a little paranoid. But when you go missing for days, weeks, and you're still wondering why they haven't followed through and why they have not provided this family any information, they continue to tell us HIPAA. I told them yesterday yesterday are you a health care lawyer because i am okay guys let's slow it down a moment because we're getting way way way into legal technicalities i want to go back to sergeant elder fernandez mother aylena fernandez miss fernandez i understand that elder originally from Massachusetts, is that correct?

Yes. And that you yourself have been joining in the search? Yes. Ms. Fernandez, what have you been doing to help find your son? Last Saturday, I have a squad team with Tim Miller from Texas squad team. We were around the woods here in the area where they told us that they dropped Alder off. So since we don't have any other place to search, we searched the whole area around that address that they told us.

I don't understand why Fort Hood is not searching for him. Why does his mother have to go out and search by foot? What did they first tell you, Ms. Fernandez, when Elder went missing? When I first arrived on that Wednesday, there wasn't any belief from the Army Police Department that Elder was missing. They even told me on that day in the Army Police Department that they can't really put an elder as a missing person until after 30 days because elder is 23 years old. He has his own right to not talk to anybody. And I told the sergeant that I haven't heard from elder for a few days, and I'm here to report him missing because he's nowhere to be found. He told me elder is adult.

The army department can do anything after 30 days. And he also told me after 30 days when they found elder and law enforcement that found elder will, they will will they will find elder they will arrest him they'll put him in the jail go ahead I can explain them let me explain that when a person goes absent without leave after 30 days they're considered a deserter. That's when the military can get civilian police to actually arrest a military member based on that kind of warrant that they're deserter. That's the 30-day magic. Absent without leave, which is the status he's in right now, they don't know where he is.

But what about the supposed assaulter, the person who sexually assaulted him? I haven't heard anything about that person. Wouldn't he be a suspect? Yeah, you would think so. And apparently he is there at Fort Hood. But once again, we're not hearing any of the details. And you know what's concerning me? This is exactly the scenario that happened with Gregory Wedel Morales.

He goes missing. Fort Hood will not declare him missing. Fort Hood does nothing except then declare him AWOL. Then after his body is found in a shallow grave, they then refuse to remove the AWOL status so his mother can get benefits. He's not AWOL. He's dead. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we were talking about yet another death and missing person at Fort Hood. Now, my dad was a veteran. He fought for his country.

My father-in-law, same, went around the world. My dad even lied about his age to get in to go fight for his country. I am for veterans and have worked with veterans to try and help them. But whatever is happening at Fort Hood is wrong. To Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, this is the same scenario that happened with Gregory Weedle Morales. Remember? Explain. Yes, Nancy, you're talking about a case on June 19th. During the search for Vanessa Guillen, the remains of that soldier were found following an anonymous tip.

Private Gregory Weedle Morales, he was last seen August 19, 2019, a year ago. Foul play is suspected. We also have another case. Private Mihor Morda, 26 years old, a Fort Hood soldier. He was found dead July 17th in the U.S. Corps of Engineers Reservoir. And Vanessa Guillen. She was murdered. Her remains were found July 1st. They were discovered. She was burned. She was dismembered. Her body set on fire, and now we have Sergeant Elder Fernandez, 23 years old, and all of these murky details surrounding his disappearance, allegations of sexual harassment, and the last known person to see him, his staff sergeant, who said that he dropped him off at his roommate's.

But guess what, Nancy? Here's the kicker. His roommate said he doesn't live here anymore, and all of his belongings were found in his vehicle that was on base. This is a very mysterious case. So why would he drop him there if he didn't live there? Guys, take a listen to this. New details tonight in the disappearance of yet another Fort Hood soldier. Killeen police and Army investigators are asking for the public's help in locating 23-year-old Elder Fernandez. Family members say they have not heard anything from him since Monday. I don't know where he's at right now. I don't know what he's feeling. I don't know if he's hurt. I don't know what's going on with him right now. I just know

he's a good kid. He will never disappear to not tell his family what he said. The young man was last seen by his staff sergeant Monday afternoon when he dropped him off at his residence at Killeen. Officials say his car was found with all of his belongings, and he recently even signed a new lease, but never picked up the keys to that new apartment. You are hearing our friends at KXXV ABC 25. To Dr. Debbie Joffe Ellis, psychologist, adjunct professor, Columbia University, a Dr. Debbie at debbiejoffeellis.com.

Dr. Debbie, thank you for being with us. Why is it that so many people are afraid to report sex harassment in the workplace? Well, there could be any number of reasons, Nancy. One might be fear of retribution. The other might be being part of a circle of, let's say, friends, and it's just not considered acceptable to do so. Some might consider if they look like they're aligning with someone who's been bullied or is considered lesser than for some ridiculous reason, that that brings them down in their little social pyramid. So there could be any number of reasons. And one of the tragic elements of these happenings, these murders, and so far the murderers are not found, is that there's the potential for soldiers there to live in anxiety, to live in fear.

Some of them might already have pre-existing anxiety and fear. And this can exacerbate things to the point of wanting to attempt suicide. I am not for one minute referring to Elder when I say that I don't know enough. To Joe Episcopo, criminal defense attorney, no stranger to a courtroom. He is a military law specialist. I'm looking at these stripes. I'm looking at a chest full of medals. This guy didn't just disappear. Elder didn't just go AWOL. All this means something. This means he's in it to win it. He's into the army. This is what his goal is. He was proud about the classes he would take in complete and he was building his life in the army. This is what his goal is. He was proud about the classes he would take in complete,

and he was building his life in the army. He is not AWOL. He's not AWOL. What are his friends saying? What? What are his friends saying? You know what? Let's find out. Natalie Kawam, what can you tell us about his sex harassment claim? I mean, this guy is dyed in the wool army. It must have taken a lot for him to make a complaint like that because you'll totally get blackballed. Correct.

So he was sexually assaulted in the supply room by his sergeant. Whoa. Is that the same guy that dropped him off? Not that we know of. I mean, honestly, we don't even know if he was dropped off. Let's just be honest. Who saw him being dropped off? No one.

So that guy could be telling us he dropped him off for all we know, first of all. Secondly, the guy that officially assaulted him was his staff sergeant. It's a guy named Kim, laughing Kim. Ready for this? This is what's really horrible. They said they couldn't give this guy, Kim, a polygraph test because he's Korean and didn't speak English. So I find out later that this guy speaks perfect English. They were trying to protect him by saying that he didn't speak English and they needed someone who spoke Korean to give a polygraph test so no agent would come out to show his guilt. So they're protecting these perverts. Who is this they you're talking about that are protecting? Who's this they?

Who's the sharp people? The same people who was running sexual trafficking on Fort Hood years ago. I mean, I got to tell you, I've never heard anything like this in my life. If you think that this would happen in the real world, that you don't give someone a polygraph test because they lie and they say that he doesn't speak English? When they know he's a staff sergeant, he has to speak English? Guys, we are talking about the disappearance of yet another Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about the disappearance of yet another young soldier at Fort Hood.

This is Sergeant Elder Fernandez. He's got a chest full of medals, three stripes on his arm. So proud, so proud of being in the Calvary. So what did it take for him to report sex harassment and alleged sex assault on him by his sergeant, a male? And what we now learn, according to Natalie Kawam, the lawyer for his family is that the army tells her the sergeant could not be polygraphed because he's Asian. Now, to you, Joe Episcopal, isn't it true that even if someone speaks a language other than English, you simply have someone of their native tongue perform the polygraph? It's really not that hard.

Nancy, you can't make someone take a polygraph. You can't order it. You have to voluntarily take it. Okay. I don't know what all this is. Even in the army? Language. You cannot order someone to take a polygraph. It's invalid. The polygraph must be done voluntarily. Even in the Army? Okay. Even in the Army, yeah. You can't force. Okay, let me just go with what you're saying. They can't force him to take a poly. But then, instead of saying he wouldn't take the poly, they came up with a story, we can't polygraph him because he doesn't speak English, but yet he does. And even if he didn't, you can still polygraph a non-English speaking person.

I've had it done a million times. Well, if he went to a lawyer, the lawyer would tell him not to take it. That may be true, but that's not what the Army told Kuwam. The Army told her they couldn't poly him because he didn't speak English. Natalie, help me. It wasn't me. They told the mom, Alina, or your sister, Isabel, correct? They told me and Elton Fernandez. What did they tell you, Ms. Fernandez? The investigation is still going on because the person who harassed Elder does not speak English and they don't have anybody to translate it when they do the paragraph.

Okay, there you go, Joe Episcopal. You want to say the mom's lying? Good luck with that, buddy. I'm not saying anybody's lying. I'm telling you, you cannot make someone take a part. I'm not saying anybody's lying. I'm telling you cannot make someone take a polygraph. I know granted I'll go with you on that but then why come up with a cockamamie story we couldn't polygraph him because he doesn't speak English. That's total BS now. That's a technical legal term Piscopo. I don't know if you've ever heard of that before. Of course it

is and of course his attorney would have stepped in and say, what do you mean he doesn't speak English? That's where the attorney comes in. That's where the attorney gets in the face of these people and tells them, okay, get tough, attorney. Represent your client. Get in there. Kick some ass.

Well, I appreciate all that. I appreciate that. The reality is. Go ahead, Natalie. Thank you. At this point, Joe, we are still trying to find Elder. I mean, at this point, what they're telling the family, and I'm not there with the family. This is a case I literally took because my heart's in it again.

But I told them I'm not able to travel down to Texas this week. So I'm on the phone with these idiots, numbnuts, on the phone yesterday, and they keep on giving these evasive answers with HIPAA. So that's when I said, you know what, I will call the Secretary of Defense. If I have to call the president about this, I will. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Bring it down. Before we drag the president and the Oval Office into this,

let me understand. Very simply, Natalie Kawam, who did Elder say sex assaulted him? I think you said in the supply room. Who? Correct. It was Staff Sergeant Kim. K-I-M. Is that a man or a woman? It's a man. Okay. Do you know what the nature of the assault was?

What did Elder claim the sergeant did? From what I understand from his roommate, he grabbed his buttocks and then started harassing him. I didn't get all the details, but he started harassing him, him places making his life really really troubled uh and then they removed elder not the sergeant out of the unit and that's when everything started getting bad downhill so they told elder oh no one was there to see that you know it was just you two there uh you know they started doing that whole let's question the victim kind of thing and that's when elder's literally uh spirit, they broke his spirit afterwards. They just continued to harass him. I guess the Me Too movement hasn't hit Fort Dix,

but normally the victim now is believed regardless of what the allegation is, according to the Me Too movement. You know what, Episcopal, politics have nothing to do with Elder's disappearance. And I want to go back to Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Levi, I understand the Army says they are searching for a missing Fort Hood soldier, Sergeant

Elder Fernandez, just 23 years old. Did they also say they were searching for Vanessa Guillen? Yes, Nancy, but here's the thing. The Army's not searching for him. In the statements that they've released, they have said that they think that he left on his own. But here's the problem with that, Nancy. As I mentioned earlier, he was last seen by his staff sergeant Monday afternoon, August 17, when he was dropped off at an apartment complex in Killeen. His roommate said he no longer lived here and he

never entered the apartment complex. So someone is lying. And he was reported missing two days later. This all happened after he accused someone of sexual harassment, sexual assault, and he was hospitalized. And the Army has not nailed down this timeline. They're not taking this seriously. They're not searching for him, and they're claiming that he walked away, and that is very puzzling. Okay, a Fort Hood official has said we are actively searching to locate him and staying in contact with his family, friend, and law enforcement. Well, actually, EquiSearch is the one searching. The Army is the one.

That was an official Fort Hood statement. I don't know if that's true or not. I also want you to know that we are reaching out to the sergeant who allegedly sex harassed Sergeant Elder Fernandez. To Ms. Fernandez, what is your message today? My message is to find Elder. I need any help that I can get to find Elder. I have small children back home waiting for me. He's a babysitter since I left.

I need to find elder. I can't leave Texas without elder. My life will never go back together without my son. I need to know where the elder is at and information. I'm not accusing anybody. I just need everybody to help me find Elder. I need information. I need the military department to tell me anything that they know to help me find my son. Ms. Fernandez, what was the last thing Elder said to you? He told me, Mom, I promise you that I get my cell phone on Monday. I will call you. What's the latest, John Limley? Nancy, a sad update to this hour's story. Police now telling us that the body of a man found near some railroad tracks in Temple, Texas,

believed to be that of Sergeant Elder Fernandez. Police responded earlier to a medical call in the area after a caller said that a man was observed near the railroad tracks. When the officers arrived, they determined that the man had been deceased for some period of time. Investigators say that identification, a military ID, and a driver's license at the scene indicate that the victim may be, and is most likely, the missing Fort Hood soldier, 23-year-old Elder Fernandez. Now, no forensic confirmation has been made at this time in the investigation, and at this point, foul play is not suspected. Of course, please stay with CrimeOnline.com throughout the day and overnight for the very latest on this story. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.